Finally! I can justify spending $60 on a spectrum analyzer so this will be wonderful. One application I am very interested in is detecting and locating surreptitious listening devices.
Great job Dean KK4DAS and VWS for putting this on. For the RF curious, this is a fab tool. I admit I was slack using my TinySA to look at my RF output -- I didn't have a attenuator. What to do to protect the TinySA? I shorted the input to ground, and it still got plenty of signal, and the TinySA was safe as could be. I mean, other than the fact that I was using it, well it was safe. hahah. As a signal generator, it tops out at -7db, so there is that limit on signal output. But if you think of the signal generator as a free add-on to the spectrum analyzer, then it looks like one heck of a good value.
Great demonstration, better than any other on TH-cam. Please emphasize the use of the attenuator in a warning in the description so that the unsuspecting don’t blow the thing up with their first use.
I've had many SAs since the Tektronix 491, the TinySA is the only one I'd dare take outside for hobby use, my other babies stay in a nice shop environment!
great description as a newbie the info is sometimes overload but this was the right content for me to start using the tiny sa and will start building the 40m rig across the Pond in the UK just M7FRA 73s
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Would not the typical green-CRT Anritsu or Hameg units, or something like a Tektronix 7L... plugin or 49x, or similar units that have been sold secondhand for 800 bucks -ish prices for a long time, be the closer comparison?
I came across this device a couple of days ago while researching FM alignment. How new is this? When did it come out? Very nicely presented, thank you for making it available here.
Great video on basics.Can you connect to computer ? If you can where is the software? I am waiting for my tinySA ultra. Hope someone can help me here with the software issue
Great presentation by Dean (KK4DAS), but there is a problem with how the $25 HT (Baofeng???) harmonics were measured in this video (making it look worse than it really is) and the problem is not an uncommon and often overlooked issue that folks run into when using a Spectrum Analyzer including high end spectrum analyzers, not just the TinySA. The problem is that the signal strength from the HT into the Spectrum analyzer was too high for the mixer within the Spectrum Analyzer which then causes excessive internal distortion products and this causes the third harmonic to look much stronger than it really is. Some spectrum analyzers recommend the input signal be below -30 dBm in order to avoid this problem and -30 dBm works well with the TinySA (it's a great starting point). In this video the 162.5 MHz signal was -14.5 dBm (not the recommended -30 dBm or lower) and the 3rd harmonic measured -34.4 dBm so it looked like the 3rd harmonic was only 19.9 dB down from the fundamental. I was able to duplicate this test using a Baofeng UV-5RB and came up with the 3rd harmonic being 20.1 dB down from the fundamental so my results were similar to Deans when using a fundamental signal strength of -14.3 dBm which I obtained by using 50 dB of attenuation. I then increased the attenuation to 70 dB which brought my fundamental down to -33.3 dBm and the 3rd harmonic then measured -73.9 dBm so now the 3rd harmonic measured 40.9 dB down from the fundamental (not 20.1 dB). I also repeated this test using approximately 79 dB of attenuation and the fundamental measured -42.8 dBm and the 3rd harmonic measured -83.4 dBm so the 3rd harmonic measured 40.6 dB below the fundamental which is similar to the 40.9 dB value I measured when using 70 dB of attenuation which is a good indicator that the signal level into the spectrum analyzer is low enough to prevent the unwanted internal generation of distortion products. I just wanted to bring this phenomenon to everyone's attention so they make sure their Spectrum Analyzer setup is proper in order to avoid generating internal distortion products which could then make their harmonic measurements invalid. P.S. you can view a youtube video produced by the TinySA designer in which he demonstrates the above mentioned issue starting at 7:22 in the video and he mentions that an input signal level lower than -25 dBm works well on the TinySA in order to avoid internally produced distortion products, and here is a link to that video: th-cam.com/video/E2bxZZXyVoE/w-d-xo.html 73, Don (wd8dsb)
These are nice little units no doubt and great bang-for-the-buck but really aren't nearly as capable as the SDRPlay RSP/spec analyzer software combo which is also great bang-for-the-buck. But the RSP system isn't as portable....
I'd like to see one with the same reference oscillator that the Nano VNA V2 uses. I've been suspecting there might be some total rip off clones of the V2 so beware, it should cost nearly $200 US
That there are rip offs is true. I have seen a few video by people who have gotten rip off units. There are several clues, The High input is labeled HICE, there is no serial number sticker on the back, and the units do not pass self test #7 and/or #8, which indicates there is filtering circuitry missing.
Are TinySA and NanoVNA suitable tools for wiress microphone/IEMs RF monitoring? Specifically to monitor used bands within the spectrum so, we can avoid two mics' RF crashing together during live show, for example.
Even though you show the Baofeng as having a third harmonic that is pretty large, wouldn't any antenna on the HT basically filter this out anyway to a reasonable level? An antenna's resonance is going to filter out a 3rd harmonic. You guys are way too picky. I'd look at the spectrum when the HT has a rubber duck or a 2m antenna on it and pick up the signal with just the whip on the TinySA, to show exactly what is happening for real in the actual air.
FWIW I measured one of my fleet of UV-5Rs, using attenuators and a professional spectrum analyser, the third harmonic of 2m transmit was a little over 40dB down from the carrier. Not great but not a disaster IMHO. The antenna will provide some filter effect but not in this example as the antenna itself is designed to be about 50 ohms on both bands. I certainly would not consider operating the radios into a big , elevated antenna. I live in a rural area and have maintained a lot of 2 way radio in my area, I am very confident that the third harmonic of my radio with a stock antenna is not going to bother anyone, plus of course the third harmonic is in an amateur band.
Finally! I can justify spending $60 on a spectrum analyzer so this will be wonderful. One application I am very interested in is detecting and locating surreptitious listening devices.
Well done. Going to recommend this video to my clubs. Thank you.
Great job Dean KK4DAS and VWS for putting this on. For the RF curious, this is a fab tool. I admit I was slack using my TinySA to look at my RF output -- I didn't have a attenuator. What to do to protect the TinySA? I shorted the input to ground, and it still got plenty of signal, and the TinySA was safe as could be. I mean, other than the fact that I was using it, well it was safe. hahah.
As a signal generator, it tops out at -7db, so there is that limit on signal output. But if you think of the signal generator as a free add-on to the spectrum analyzer, then it looks like one heck of a good value.
Great demonstration, better than any other on TH-cam. Please emphasize the use of the attenuator in a warning in the description so that the unsuspecting don’t blow the thing up with their first use.
How does one learn how much attenuation is needed and how to provide it?
I bought the tinySA Ultra ... even better
Tinysa is an amazing instrument 😊
Completely agree!
I have two of them (as to have the generator function independent of the analyzer function). It's a great tool, especially for radio amateurs.
I've had many SAs since the Tektronix 491, the TinySA is the only one I'd dare take outside for hobby use, my other babies stay in a nice shop environment!
I use a $15 noise source with the tinySA to characterize filters. Works great!
great description as a newbie the info is sometimes overload but this was the right content for me to start using the tiny sa and will start building the 40m rig across the Pond in the UK
just M7FRA 73s
A great tool for vintage radio tuneups
How is this channel not bigger? There's a ton of information here.
The channel needs viewers like you. Please subscribe, share the videos, and spread the word about all the knowledge accumulating here. Unfortunately The Algorithm uses engagement with the content to decide which channels to promote or not, and without viewer's help it will be difficult to grow.
Would not the typical green-CRT Anritsu or Hameg units, or something like a Tektronix 7L... plugin or 49x, or similar units that have been sold secondhand for 800 bucks -ish prices for a long time, be the closer comparison?
I came across this device a couple of days ago while researching FM alignment. How new is this? When did it come out? Very nicely presented, thank you for making it available here.
The first edit of the main page of tinysa.org wiki was on 2020-03-11, so the design is probably not that much older.
@@ViennaWirelessSociety Thank you for the reply, I might as well get one. Seems to be an excellent device for the money, until I get a full-size unit.
@@I967 It is small, cheap, and useful enough to get just as an RFI investigation tool. Even if you have no plans to use it on the bench.
Forgot to mention - the audio output on the tinySA makes it a WB receiver, just like SDR, with the waterfall display as well.
Very good overview. I LOVE my SA & VNA's. Amazing units. IMSAI Guy also has some great vids on this too.
Great video on basics.Can you connect to computer ? If you can where is the software? I am waiting for my tinySA ultra. Hope someone can help me here with the software issue
Great presentation by Dean (KK4DAS), but there is a problem with how the $25 HT (Baofeng???) harmonics were measured in this video (making it look worse than it really is) and the problem is not an uncommon and often overlooked issue that folks run into when using a Spectrum Analyzer including high end spectrum analyzers, not just the TinySA.
The problem is that the signal strength from the HT into the Spectrum analyzer was too high for the mixer within the Spectrum Analyzer which then causes excessive internal distortion products and this causes the third harmonic to look much stronger than it really is. Some spectrum analyzers recommend the input signal be below -30 dBm in order to avoid this problem and -30 dBm works well with the TinySA (it's a great starting point).
In this video the 162.5 MHz signal was -14.5 dBm (not the recommended -30 dBm or lower) and the 3rd harmonic measured -34.4 dBm so it looked like the 3rd harmonic was only 19.9 dB down from the fundamental. I was able to duplicate this test using a Baofeng UV-5RB and came up with the 3rd harmonic being 20.1 dB down from the fundamental so my results were similar to Deans when using a fundamental signal strength of -14.3 dBm which I obtained by using 50 dB of attenuation.
I then increased the attenuation to 70 dB which brought my fundamental down to -33.3 dBm and the 3rd harmonic then measured -73.9 dBm so now the 3rd harmonic measured 40.9 dB down from the fundamental (not 20.1 dB). I also repeated this test using approximately 79 dB of attenuation and the fundamental measured -42.8 dBm and the 3rd harmonic measured -83.4 dBm so the 3rd harmonic measured 40.6 dB below the fundamental which is similar to the 40.9 dB value I measured when using 70 dB of attenuation which is a good indicator that the signal level into the spectrum analyzer is low enough to prevent the unwanted internal generation of distortion products.
I just wanted to bring this phenomenon to everyone's attention so they make sure their Spectrum Analyzer setup is proper in order to avoid generating internal distortion products which could then make their harmonic measurements invalid.
P.S. you can view a youtube video produced by the TinySA designer in which he demonstrates the above mentioned issue starting at 7:22 in the video and he mentions that an input signal level lower than -25 dBm works well on the TinySA in order to avoid internally produced distortion products, and here is a link to that video: th-cam.com/video/E2bxZZXyVoE/w-d-xo.html
73, Don (wd8dsb)
Thanks for the write-up. It's great to see presentations inspiring people to do their own experiments, and sharing the insights.
Can i plug in 2 antennas and see the full VHF and UHF spectrum from 0-960 Mhz or is it only in the 2 sections and ports it shows individually?
These are nice little units no doubt and great bang-for-the-buck but really aren't nearly as capable as the SDRPlay RSP/spec analyzer software combo which is also great bang-for-the-buck. But the RSP system isn't as portable....
I'd like to see one with the same reference oscillator that the Nano VNA V2 uses. I've been suspecting there might be some total rip off clones of the V2 so beware, it should cost nearly $200 US
That there are rip offs is true. I have seen a few video by people who have gotten rip off units. There are several clues, The High input is labeled HICE, there is no serial number sticker on the back, and the units do not pass self test #7 and/or #8, which indicates there is filtering circuitry missing.
Are TinySA and NanoVNA suitable tools for wiress microphone/IEMs RF monitoring? Specifically to monitor used bands within the spectrum so, we can avoid two mics' RF crashing together during live show, for example.
TinySA should work well for RF spectrum monitoring.
@@ViennaWirelessSociety Thanks for replying
Has anyone tried these on TSCM? That's Technical Systems Counter Measures.. in other words bug hunting.. looking for clandestine transmitters..
This looks similar to searching for RFI (radio frequency interference) sources, and such tiny spectrum analyzer is very helpful tool.
Even though you show the Baofeng as having a third harmonic that is pretty large, wouldn't any antenna on the HT basically filter this out anyway to a reasonable level? An antenna's resonance is going to filter out a 3rd harmonic. You guys are way too picky.
I'd look at the spectrum when the HT has a rubber duck or a 2m antenna on it and pick up the signal with just the whip on the TinySA, to show exactly what is happening for real in the actual air.
FWIW I measured one of my fleet of UV-5Rs, using attenuators and a professional spectrum analyser, the third harmonic of 2m transmit was a little over 40dB down from the carrier. Not great but not a disaster IMHO. The antenna will provide some filter effect but not in this example as the antenna itself is designed to be about 50 ohms on both bands. I certainly would not consider operating the radios into a big , elevated antenna. I live in a rural area and have maintained a lot of 2 way radio in my area, I am very confident that the third harmonic of my radio with a stock antenna is not going to bother anyone, plus of course the third harmonic is in an amateur band.
Great video, only annoying background typing sound 😞
Yes, it is. But we've worked hard on eliminating such annoyances, and videos from recent presentations should be much easier to watch.
Uh Oh!! R&L must have seen this video and jacked up the price. Not $60 they want $199.95!
Uhm... Maybe one day... But for now presentations given at VWS meetings are not influential enough to affect the economy.
But we're working on it.
cloned version
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I'm glad you liked the video!