🎯 Formation Duo 🇺🇸 bit.ly/2GXyWkq • bit.ly/46OB59a 🇬🇧 bit.ly/3JQPZlB 👉 QUESTIONS? Click THANKS☝️to highlight your question & give thanks for the help you receive! 👀 for something? Click the 🛍 on screen or open the description box below to see more!
I’ve heard your review and I enjoyed it so much that I went to listen to them. And they sound so lively and it does not tired you down. I bought it and brought it home and compare it against my 804 nautilus with over 6k worth of amp and 2 k pre amp. This Formation speakers blew that way easily. Just want to say thank you for taking your time and explained these speakers. It convinced me. I bought it and now looking to sell my system and buy another set for my other room. Thank you, thank you.
Revisiting this “vintage Andrew” video it’s interesting to note how he and Kristy improved the quality of their productions, which, btw, were already very good. Great work!
After watching this video, I ordered a pair of these without even seeing (let alone listening to) them prior to the purchase. I am very grateful and would like to Thank you wholeheartedly for your review.
I literally bought these speakers (whole hog; a full B&W formation integration across our house) off the back of this review. ...naturally following a solid demo. But couldn’t agree more with you on performance and ‘infectiousness’
Coming back to this review in 2024, I own 3 pairs of Duos in different rooms. I like them because of the way they make classical piano music sound, like you are in the room with the pianist. I own a Bluthner grand piano so I know how the instrument should sound, and these are magical. I was planning to buy a high end Naim system, but after hearing these I didn’t bother.
I wouldn't have considered myself as "into" powered loud speakers simply because I enjoyed all the other "gear" that is needed to run passive speakers, it was just fun to me to have all this extra "stuff" to run speakers and make them sound great..... until I hooked up my new Klipsch The Fives - it completely changed the way I look at my audio system and components. I used to have the B&W 802s as my bucket list speaker to someday have, and now I find myself looking more at something like this as a replacement for the 802s on my bucket list??? I still love the way the 802s look, but I have had a major change in mindset since hooking up The Fives (which I'm sure aren't even close to these, yet I still find them amazing -to me) and seeing what can be done with a powered loudspeaker. Thanks for the awesome review, I can't believe I hadn't seen this one until now! As always, keep up the great work the two of you do... and Thank You!
I am glad to see this review. I heard these tucked away in a corner at Best Buy and in that poor acoustic setting, I stopped in my tracks and sat and stared at them. I have owned many Paradigm, B&W, Wharfedale, Dynaudio, and KEF speakers. The B&W Duo's are shockingly good.
Nice review but won’t leave my Nautilus 805’s with my McIntosh Amp. They sound good for the last 15 years and no need to firmware upgrade. Timeless like an automatic watch. Maybe I can use this in my office.
I had both the kef ls50 wireless 2 s and the formation duos. And i was switching back and forth from the kefs to the duos using Spotify connect and to me the duos are much better. Way more crisp sound and not fatiguing at all. The bass sounds superb. Similar to a subwoofer. Im sending the kefs back. The duos are more than worth it atleast to me.
I hope you’re still enjoying the Duos. I am thinking of making the move myself. Quick question. Can you connect the Duos via Bluetooth with a Bluetooth turntable or purchasing the Formation audio device is unavoidable? Thanks
If you get the duos just make sure to get the stands and they will stay cool or warm to the touch at the base. You could possibly lift them from the surface where ever you have them. But if you have them on a table or console they will get really hot to the touch. They connect through Bluetooth. I use them for surround sound my LG tv connect to them. There's no lag in the dialogue. Movies sound great. I like them. I use Spotify connect. And I have the formation bass and it's a good musical bass.
@@Ramon-lp8fp I am thinking of connecting them to my laptop via Bluetooth (hope no latency there). I watch movies and listen to music through my computer anyway which is connected on a big screen. My only fear is support as. Company’s faith on the product given its poor sales performance . I live in London I must have called literally over 20 B&W stores and no one stocks them. A few also told me they used to but not anymore as they were hard to sell. I guess it’s a failed product which is awkward given how great some of the reviews are. I hope its future is not short lived.
@@gpapa31 maybe just wait they might release a formation duos second gen or somethin . I know kef launched there wireless standing speakers. It seems that more companies will probably launch more similar style speakers. In the United States they launched the duos @ 3999$ then raised the price to 4999$ maybe sales were better here. Cause it wouldnt make sense to raise the price on a product that is selling poorly as that would seem to slow sales even more.
@@Ramon-lp8fp I know purists will hate me for saying this but IMHO wireless active is the future of HiFi. It will only get better and gradually, through generations, will put aside the traditional amp + preamp + DAC + passive speakers + wires everywhere. I am not saying it will completely replace the philosophy but it will become like vinyl and CD is to streaming in terms of sound quality and efficiency triggering endless debates on forums and blogs about which one sounds better.
Thanks for the good quality production. Excellent for mentioning you don’t need a sub with these as that I was quite worried about. I‘m definitely planning a listening session at the local Hi-Fi hub.
I was VERY surprised when I looked at the Formation Audio to pair with these and add some functionality, that it didn't have HDMI eARC. If you're looking at changing an ecosystem and way of thinking, in MY opinion, that would have been something almost necessary on the Formation Audio? Hopefully that is coming in the future for these from B&W. I was able to listen to the Duos and was amazed..... but also, equally amazed at the lack of the eARC on the Formation audio. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but to me, it seems like that would have been a no brainer for them on the Audio.
Hi Andrew You reviewed this speakers back in 2019 and price came down now in 2024, would you still buy them now or something better on market now ( high end active speaker ) Thanks
So this is the 2nd pair of speakers that I have purchased Solely on your reviews!! Yikes ! These maybe my end game .. again your review is spot on the question is what do I do with the Denton 85s that I love so much but these bw duos are .. uhm .. awesome thank you for all you do and love your reviews
Definitely one of your most convincing videos. and about liking a speaker. I just realized it is from July 2019. Do you still stand by the Formation Duo? I recently decided to upgrade from my cheap Yamaha speakers and Mini Rigs and bought a PS Audio Sprout 2 to get started. Intended to buy speakers in the 2-$4k range. Should I send the Sprout back or have you uncovered a passive Formation Duo-like alternative?
Had not the chance to audition these speakers locally and decided to buy them based on reviews like this. Got a pair, defective tweeter, airplay connection unstable to say the least, app is a joke. Got them replaced and in the meantime the app got some updates. If you want them to work properly you need to use their app. Forget about airplay, there’s pops and glitches all the time, no matter the wifi access point one uses. Bluetooth works better but forget about multiroom. First and last B&W product I buy.
i worked at a b&w / nakamichi repair shop in the early '80's. one of the techs built a custom pair of active 2 way speakers using 801 mids and tweeters powered by nakamichi 420 power amps. (55 w per channel class a ). it all sounded very good. hard to believe it's taken 40 years for b&w to see the light.
@Andrew Robinson - maybe have a look at the Buchardt A500s and A700s. I think they kick the B&Ws a bit... Warranty is longer; multiple audio frequency profiles; compatible with multiple transmitters. A500s similarly priced to the B&Ws, A500s much more powerful by means of Amp and processor power. ...For sure the Buchardts kick the B&Ws.
These are the best speakers I've ever heard - okay, besides this crazy expensive set up (12k+/pair) we heard at Whetstone Audio one time. That said - these B&W's are definitely my favorite of all the ones Andrew's had in house for review. They really are THAT GOOD. He just plugged them back in after a couple of weeks listening to another pair and I knew INSTANTLY they were back, while in another room. They are sooooo good I happy danced when I realized they were back.
well they are probably using a Hypex Ncore or ICE amplifier inside, I would like to see how they sound compare to the LS50W, Great review thanks brother
This is why I hate your reviews. I want to sell my car and buy these speakers. You are are so passionate and your reviews are so compelling. Thank you.
Recently bought these. This is the most I have ever spent on audio gear by a mile and really hoping I would blown away, and hoping I can connect my tv via Bluetooth for occasional music video playback. I muat have watched this and kef ls50 wireless 2 videos so many times but this design was just aspirational for me. Will provide an update after testing.
No idea. I don't watch other TH-cam reviews of AV equipment. I'm sure his findings were justified to his tastes and experience, just as mine were to my own. But I try not to compare and contrast what I said against someone else's opinion of the same product.
Great review, Andrew. I had not heard of these until I saw your headline. I owned the B&W Matrix 805's back in the 90's and they were imaging SOB's, but the bass was a little light for my taste and the treble range couldn't keep up with the low distortion and speed of electrostatics so I went that way, Martin-Logan CLS's (in addition to Altec 19's and Klipsch Cornwall's). But, driver technology has come a long way since the 90's, so it doesn't surprise me that the 700 series tweeter beats the 800 series diamond tweeter (it seems to me that the diamond layer, while helping distortion because of fewer breakup modes, has hurt the overall speed and clarity. The Focal berylium tweeter always seems to get the edge in comparisons I've read). I am guessing the removal of the traditional crossover is letting both of the drivers shine to their best advantage. Digital crossover and EQ is likely the way forward, although traditional hifi guys will probably keep their firehose speaker cables until the end!
Love your closing remarks! Yes, I fear these beauties will not find that wide of an audience because the enthusiasts who may be able to afford them now, when they need to sell, are likely resistant to change. I appreciate your comment and from one CLS fan (and former owner myself) thanks for watching!
thank you for the review. I've been trying to figure out a new home audio only design and after watching this I bit the bullet and went and bought the Formation Duos, the Formation Audio and the Formation wedge to go along with it. product wasn't in stock so i wont take delivery for two weeks but they let me crank the store models to 11, the whole store was happy, they are flipping amazing.
Hi Andrew, several years later, how do the formation duo compare to the Kef LS60 and other available power speakers of today. Also, if your intention is to build a multi-room system with the formation flex, how does that compare to using the LS60+two pairs of LSX II? Any other multi room systems you’d suggest?
In some of the hi-fi forums many people complain about the formation duo having constant drop outs because of the app. And at that price tag this is really unacceptable. Are you having these problems too?
Im all in!! I just purchased a used pair solely based on your review as well as “whathifi”s review. Can’t wait to get them in my system and room. If for some reason I don’t like them I will simply flip them for close to the same money. I’m excited!!
Hi Andrew, Just as an FYI - I spoke with Denmarks Hifi Club today, they are the sole distributor in Denmark for B&W. They told me that they are selling all their duo´s with 25% discount due to an update from B&W coming up.
Interesting concept high end wireless audio. But I purchased the 805 d3 before the announcement of the Formation Duo. I am very satisfied with the silky smooth treble the d3 is delivering! And I think it is hard to believe that the Duo speakers is better in this regard... Anyways, I am thinking of the Devialet Pro 200 amplifier. Expensive, but as I understand this Devialet amp has a good DAC included, and streaming out of box is also possible. So, one stylize box (Devialet amp) gives more functions and also less costly cables are required.
I run McIntosh C-47 / MC-152 into my 805d3’s. Match made in heaven. If these speakers are so wonderful why is there not a single online review where you can hear them? Makes me suspicious.
A lot of people will likely balk at the $4K pricetag, but like you said, once you start adding up all the extra costs, they're actually a fairly good deal. Thanks for tuning in!
I'm not avoiding the Forte III. I get asked to review the Forte IIIs every day, literally. It simply wasn't a request I felt I had to respond to. Give me a break, not everything is a conspiracy you and you alone are capable of uncovering.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews You can only compare a speaker to what you have experience with and no-one can possibly experience every speaker someone else has. I only brought up the Forte because the qualities you liked in the Formation DUO are there in spades with the Forte III so I thought it may be a speaker you would really enjoy. I didn't mean it as bait for the conspiracy theorists, sorry LOL! Looks like that comment is gone though. Having said that, I know you have heard A TON of great speakers so your glowing opinion of the DUO's has a lot of value to me even though you have not heard some speakers I also like. We have to digest all of these reviews within the correct context, my friends. Andrew Robinson has done a great job of detailing where he is coming from and that is very valuable as you watch these reviews/opinions etc. Before taking any TH-camrs opinion as gospel or just too literally, we should think about it within the context of that reviewers experience and overall opinion of the subject at hand. Also, even if every review could include counter-points to any question or competitive product someone may think or ask about, that would make for a very long, very boring video!!
My conspiracy response was not directed at you. It was meant for another user who will no longer be joining us in discussions on this channel. I appreciate your comment(s) and am looking into a Forte review in the future. Best!
Thank you lovely review Andrew. I bought the formation bar & bass and it's as musical as a that format can achieve. I am looking to replace maybe with the duo as I live in a condo and cant have 2 diff systems. I have had parasound JC1, Pass labs Int, Bryston 4BST, Modwright Integrate, Devialet 200, Cary Audio and with all the speakers and pre amps and audio sources, sacd players including the sony SCD-1 I have lost count how many systems I have been through. So 8 years ago I sold off everything I realized I was spending more time changing amps & speakers and tweaking my power cords than listening to music... it's a terrible hobby :) 2 years ago I bought a Sony ta-a1es, Sony hap-z1es and KEF LS50 the sound was truly superb for the money, but it just sat there. I am now looking to sell all 3 of them and get better stuff or sell them and get the Formation Duo. Our mind thinks we need many boxes for audio to sound good and on the other hand I think the duo's will be perfect and the future. BTW the main reason I am listening to so much music now is due to Roon and Tidal it's absolutely fantastic to listen to new music and not just your old flac files. The only people who will bash the duo's are the old folks I got the same treatment when I bought my Devialet but it was one of the best sound I ever had in my system!
great review andrew - i've auditioned about 60 loudspeakers since the beginning of the year across MANY brands for my 2 channel / HT build and my favorite has been the 800 D3 thus far - after hearing this, i will definitely check these out for another application in my house - keep the content coming !
@Andrew Robinson, you have my resting audiophile juices running again. It has been 20 years since my last major audio purchase. Discovering you on IG and your TH-cam channel has been a godsend; I think. At the moment I own 0 vinyl records and my CD collection is for shit. Since I am already a Tidal subscriber, I'm thinking a digital system with music streaming is my next ticket in. I really enjoyed your review of the B&W Formation Duo Loudspeakers. Before I pull the trigger, will you be reviewing the Buchardt A500s anytime soon?
I love it they are the best in the world Yes indeed there is no match on this Formation Duo but the price can be a little bit lower so Bowers & Wilkins can sale alot more of the Duo Speakers .
Good review, but I think another advantage not directly spelled out is, not only discrete amps as bi amps, but these are also like monoblocks? So discrete amps for each channel, correct? So like 4 amps. I would finally also say, it's still relative to what you get for the price. How about a pair of JBL Studio 590 or Buchardt S400 paired with a good ~$2k integrated amp like the NAD M10. That's around $4k or less. Would love to then compare against this pair. Would love your thoughts / comparison on this.
Yes, the speakers essentially have a separate amplifier directly powering each driver. So the tweeter has its own amp, the bass/midrange driver has its own amp. Monoblocks for each driver. Couple that with DSP and you get a sound signature that is different than traditional or passive (non-powered) speakers that is hard to beat!
Great review Andrew! I recently auditioned the formation suite of speakers after your review, very impressed. So impressed, I bought the whole line.The only thing I was not able to sample, was a turntable being played through the duo speakers, how does it sound with a turntable?? Again, great review, appreciate the detail. Keep up the great work!
Great review. A few quick points: 1) I'm a long-time B&W user, over 25 years, and have owned 4 pair--currently use 2 different pair, including 803s. If these Duos (? Formations? FDs?) are as good as you describe (as it relates to current and legacy 800 series) they're very, very good indeed. 2) I'm glad you did the "bargain" math towards the end of your review. $5,000 isn't 'cheap,' but it's merely the bottom tier of where good systems come in (yeah, yeah, one can put together a really fine system for around $2,000, I know. Different discussion.) If I were to build a 'system' today, I'd audition the hell out of these and if they come anywhere close to a good integrated amp with a decent streamer/DAC and the 805s (let alone the 800s) , I'd be all over them for $5k. Done! 3) There is absolutely nothing wrong with the HiFi streaming services today. You touch on some audiophile snobbery wrt them in your first couple minutes, but I sure don't see much of it out there anymore. Anyone that, has a problem with Tidal HiFi or Masters (for example) well, there's something else going on. Thanks, nice job.
Definitely give them a listen for yourself. The eco-system may be the thing that drives some away, but if you're willing to adapt to their needs, they will reward you with truly remarkable sound!
Does pairing the Formation Bar with the Formation Duo require the Formation Amp to be connected? Also do the Formation speakers work without the Formation Amp in-case using for MultiRoom application with all Formation speakers?
It’s sad we can’t use the duo in front speakers with the bar as a central speakers. The lack of lossless 5.1 or Atmos is also a deal breaker to me. I would love B&W to find a solution to use all their Formation Speakers as we want in 5.2.4 for example as long as the customer wants it. I could agree to spend this money on duos if I can also use them in my 5.1.2 configuration. I can’t afford having a movie speaker configuration and a music speaker configuration. And I think I’m not Aline, cause the Formation doesn’t have a great success even with their speakers quality. They have to think to a better integration..?
Hi Drew; Can I pair the Duo formation speakers with the flexible sound bar, flexible rears speakers and subwoofer to play in the same room for perfect surround?
I haven't watched in a number of days and just caught this vid. Oddly enough, my friends, whom I'm visiting, have two sets of B&W book self speakers one set in their bedroom, the other in their entertainment media /family room. That set are used as satellites. But, I heard them for the first time ever, and am super impressed by their amazing sound.i don't know what series they are, but they are wired. I'd not heard from them until four days ago. Loken guys the general price range, they aren't cheap by any means, but I think I'll sell my vintage Advent for speakers and invest in some B&W ones. I'm not a fan of powered, wireless....yet! Maybe one day, but not soon. I cringe when you and others call this a "hobby". Would driving a car be a hobby? Cooking one's dinner a hobby? There's got to be a better term to use. We've got to find it! You did another great "orgasmic" excited review, Andrew. And, timely too, for me anyway!
Any thoughts for this combination: Naim Unity Atom and the following: Klipsch RPM 600M ; or Bowers and Wilkins 705 S2; New Meta KEFs ( wireless or wired) ; Thanks
Not sure if you would know this. But do I need the formation audio to connect duos to my Sony A9F? Also do you think it’s valid to have this (expensive) hifi 2.0 setup in a TV audio world that has stuff like Atmos
Hi Andrew. How do you feed Tidal MQA music to the Duos? I've been looking at a way ti do it, but I can't see anything in the instructions - e.g. native streaming as with the Kef Wireless speakers. I can only see lower protocols like Airplay and Bluetooth
Do you think the duo formation is perfect first pair of speakers for the living room? Or should I stick to the old classic loudspeakers? My dad currently is still using the DM602, and it’s still amazing!
It would be good to have a bit of context to what you mean by better than the 800 series. I've heard 803's and 802's and they beat the duo's quite easily in my opinion. If you're talking about the stand mounts, fair enough. Not tried them and I'll take your word for it. As I mentioned in another comment on here I ended up getting the 702's over these. For the size of my room and the amplification I have they sound better to me. The duo's sounded better in store though so I'm glad I did a home demo.
Any tips for setting TV vs Duo volume when using the formation audio? Appears they are independently adjustable and not sure what makes for optimal audio quality
I auditioned them yesterday at the Rocky Mountain Audio convention 9/8/2019 and I agree with your assessment. I had my 25 YO daughter with me and I personally am pretty much set up Old School ( to include B&W's ) but if I was starting fresh with today's tech. I would recommend taking the leap. B&W did it again! IMO
We're seeing a lot of wireless/streaming products but most is 2 channel only. GoldenEar has their new wireless/powered etc...speaker which look interesting. What I'd like to see is more multi-channel configurations. A 7 or 9. whatever system using all powered/wireless speakers. I've toyed with powered monitors in my theater from Genelec and Emotiva but there is still the wired issue.
Currently the only company that I'm aware of doing multi-channel wireless is Bang & Olufsen, though Bowers & Wilkins did say that in the future the Formation platform could adapt to or be compatible with multi-channel.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I'm actually surprised a company like Meridian (are they still around) hasn't jumped in. I always thought they were ahead of their time.
How is it possible for internal, most likely class D amps to sound as good as a quality, external $2k amp? Agree that DSP, tuning,etc can be great. However class D, switching amps generally don’t sound the same. Your review has me curious and appreciate the overall, personal sound perspective that you included along with comparison thoughts. Nicely done review.
It's amazing how long actives have existed and finally, major makers are producing them. "On paper" they're superior to passive speakers for obvious reasons. Now adding other connectivity and such, and that's win win win. The B&W Formation Duo should be an active 805 for that kinds $, but I have no doubt they sound great.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I would also love to see your review regarding A500 and to hear how does it compare to Formation Duo - please make us happy, please ;)
Thanks for great vid Andrew! I am currently planning a speaker upgrade, but I have not considered powered speakers until now. The Formation duo seems like a tempting alternative. I would have to add the Formation Audio for my turntable setup. The biggest con about the Formation duo is, as I see it, the app. I currently use Tidal hifi and cannot understand why they have not integrated this in the formation app, or direct play trough the TIdal app. Even if Roon solves the problem, it is still both pricy and inconvenient to have to use multiple apps. Do you have any info or thoughts about how soon B&W will include Tidal Hifi in the app, and maybe even locally stored music files? Thanks again, Kristoffer.
It is too bad you don't include some music with your reviews...I have a pair of B&W DM6 Speakers which I love and have now paired them with Fluance Signature series bookshelf speakers...which are great...they even produce a pretty good strong Bass...I have been an audofile before your were even born and at 82 I still enjoy vinyl , cds and r2r tape....enjoy your videos very much..
How doesn’t this guy have a few million subscribers... literally the most informative, interesting and well edited and great content out there. I see the most dumbest channels with millions of a free hundred million subs. Quite odd. I can’t stop watching.
Will these work and sound good with Marantz 40n, and are the stands sold separately? How does it sound when played at low volume? Not using a tube amp, does these have that soft sweet sound? I have moderate hearing lost and trying to hang on to that music sound pleasure of my youth. In your opinion does these have the clarity of the same sound as the Lii Song S10? Thanks so much for your opinion! 👍
The idea behind these speakers is really good. Definitely the direction the market is going. No DSP? or room correction software? That would be nice. Would be great if they also added speakers and software to allow for ATMOS for Home theater setups.
I have been told by B&W that there is a lot of potential along the lines of what you describe that can be unlocked in future firmware updates. That despite not having typical connections, there's still more to the Formation Ecosystem than meets the eye right now.
I heard the Formation Duo’s at my local Magnolia room (Best Buy). There must have been something wrong, because there is no way in hell that they came anywhere close to the 805 D3s that were in the same room.
I 100% agree. I just auditioned these two days ago, side by side with the 805 D3s, and it wasn’t even close. That being said, the 805 D3s were paired to a $8,000 McIntosh MA8900. But honestly miles apart (and I don’t pretend to have a particularly discerning ear by any measure). The duos have incredible bass, though!
There's absolutely NO WAY I'd spend $4k on ANYTHING (audio related or not) that relies on an app for control. Waaaaay too much potential for it to become an obsolete brick in 10 years (just look at SONOS). A product at this quality and price point deserves to have some future-proofing.
@Adam Audio How? The speakers have no controls other than volume. Besides, he has a good point, and its not new. The more we rely on these apps, the less independent control the user has. With a passive system you could connect your speaker from 20 years ago, or 30 years ago, or 40 years ago, or 50 years ago -- see where this is going? Now ask yourself, will anybody still be using Bluetooth in 20 years? Will it still be around in 5 years? Nothing can obsolesce a product quicker than wireless technology. You could end up with a pair of 4 thousand dollar paper weights in a few years.
As someone currently pissed off at SONOS as they abandon my older products, agree. I’ve dreamt of owning a set of B&W speakers for over 20 years and just never found the money to buy a set of 803s. After listening to this review I was feeling myself pulled towards buying a pair, until I remembered exactly what you say above - you’re just putting your entire existence into the hands of their support and if they stop supporting then you’ve got nothing but a pretty brick.
Sam Kool It’s a 1999, so it has fuel injection and oxygen sensors but not a whole lot else. I’m aware that cars use computers, but they generally don’t rely on other devices for user control. Everything is contained within the car and generally works for the life of the car. Also, car computers (excluding infotainment systems) don’t run “apps” like a laptop or smartphone-it’s lower-level than that.
Best VIDEO is via streaming ??? Netflix's 4K bitrate tops out at 15.25 Mbps. UHD BlueRay Disc's bit rate goes up to 100 Mbps--or a times 7 increase in quality over Netflix. (I can't see the bit rate for Amazon Prime 4K selections.)
Hi Andrew can you please help me with some advice. I am trying to find for a good friend a “match “ for wired or wireless speakers. Can you please tell me in your opinion with is the perfect match for Naim Uniti Atom ? ( what wired or wireless speakers do you think will sound best for majority music genres ) Thanks a lot Bogdan PS : myself I am already a Formation Duo fan....
Based on my personal and direct experience, a speaker with its own built-in amp and crossover is the best of the rest! Please let B&W know at that price, they NEED to get with Roon and get their devices certified to work natively with Roon!
Thank you Andrew for your detail review on B&W Formation Duo speakers... for similar price range, how would you compare these with a pair of Devialet Phantom I 103dB speakers? i'm very curious...
I had several loudspeakers on hand which included JBL L100 Classics, MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL, Kanto YU6, a not yet namable product (dropping August 1), and Buchardt Audio S400.
@@net_news I reaylly wanted to like the KEF LS50's but after several auditions I've found the " look at my tweeter" voicing somewhat tiring too " in your face" & un natural.... & this is after "priming" myself that I should like them given thw overwhelmingly + reviews.....
@@net_news I've been a long time fan of Kef, but somehow - despite my agreement with much of their tech & execution - I seem to prefer other speakers that just sound more musical & natural to me - I heard a harshness in high frequencies ( well broken inn pair ) that I just could not " un-hear" - I really wanted to like them, but I was finding the sound fatiguing very fast..... It's a bit like their bandpass bass loading from a while ago - it seemed to measure well etc but just sounded terrible to me - it was the poor transient response...
@@BogdanWeiss I had similar experience... I replaced the LS50s with the Harbeth P3ESRs and the Klipsch Rp-600M in my 2nd system. Both speakers, the Harbeths and the RP-600M, liked much more than the LS50s. I know I cannot say this kind of things... but I prefer the 600Ms over the LS50s... wow... sacrilege!!!
I haven't been able to find anything confirming that the Duo supports MQA yet you mention Tidal Masters and 24/96 in the same sentence. Am I missing something?
Can i ask how you listened to tidal masters on these im about to pull the trigger on some but ive read they dont unpack MQA you have to listen to 24/96 flac files..great channel been watching for years but only subscribed today because this review...
Andrew, from all accounts these B&W Duo's seem impressive and I value your opinion. However, I've stumbled across a little know brand called Dutch & Dutch and they have what might be a serious competitor ( The 8c model) to these Duo's albeit at twice the price. BUT, since you are a HUGE powered monitor fan perhaps a "showdown" is due if for nothing else the Best of the Best powered speakers/monitors. Would love to have you review both at the same time! If anyone can make it happen it's you 👊🏽✊🏽👍🏽 Please make it a reality . Thanks
amazing channel, learned a lot, is it possible for you to review the B&W formation bar, with formation bass and flex it could be interesting to ese if they are an amazing wireless sorround system, thnaks
I hv been using the Bowers 804 D2 for years. Auditioned the duo recently, the duo's clarity cannot beat 804's diamond tweeters that produce extreme high clarify... Also, the 804D has more layer/depth significantly. Having said so, the duo's mid and low can be roaring!
Thanks for this great review Andrew! Your enthousiam is contagious :-) I'm looking for an upgrade for my Dynaudio Xeo 20's. I've tried the floorstander Xeo 30, but the dynamics and soundstage is not what I'm looking for. I'm using a NAD C658 pre-amp with Dirac room correction, as my room acoustics are horrible. The NAD however only has an analogue out (RCA). Would you recommend the Formation Duo as an upgrade over the Dynaudio Focus XD (20 or 30)? And would the Duo's be usable with the NAD C658 and Dirac? My music is all digital, I stream from Roon, Tidal, Spotify and my NAS.
he said they were maybe the finest speakers and your asking about the entry level series....shouldn't be hard to answer your own question with a bit of listening..lol
Hi i have 19ft X 14 ft room i am planing to get B&W formation series the DUO pair, WEDGE Pair , Formation bar and sub woofer is this good enough for a room of that size
Duo apparently do not work as front left and right for surround system. So Bar, Bass and a pair of Flex work together with the bar connected to the TV by fibre optics. Fibre optics is compressed audio in 5.1 and 7.1. So the Duo just sit their unless you switch to stereo and then I presume the other speakers can't be thrown into the mix.
@@ckgrosu5147 The Duo are certain up to the task of filling a large room with full range stereo. You do not need the Bass unit. I don't see anyone shown Bass being added to Duo. However the Flex, paired and then can have Bass for a 2.1 system saving a lot of money but not a match to the Duo. Bar adds front left and right and centre for surround to a pair of Flex as rear. The Wedge can be paired. More bass than the Flex but is for single source music output. For multi-room system you can use all the speakers together but you do not need them all in one room for stereo.
Thankfully, you can interface with them via Bluetooth, wifi etc too through "typical" pairing methods, but to get the most out of them you do need the Formation App, which if B&W were to discontinue or stop supporting you may be SOL. But 10 years is a good lifespan IMHO. Thanks for watching!
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt that was my worry too. B&W make some beautifully sounding products but I've had firmware problems with some of their previous multiroom stuff and so bailed on formation. I loved the liveliness & clear treble of these when I auditioned them. I just can't cope with being locked into B&W software.
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I don’t like using my phone as a remote control, does this system come with its own remote control ???
I’ve heard your review and I enjoyed it so much that I went to listen to them. And they sound so lively and it does not tired you down. I bought it and brought it home and compare it against my 804 nautilus with over 6k worth of amp and 2 k pre amp. This Formation speakers blew that way easily. Just want to say thank you for taking your time and explained these speakers. It convinced me. I bought it and now looking to sell my system and buy another set for my other room. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you for sharing! Happy listening!
is that a fair comparison tho? Those speakers are really old
@@oscillatingdailyaudio And...? :)
Revisiting this “vintage Andrew” video it’s interesting to note how he and Kristy improved the quality of their productions, which, btw, were already very good.
Great work!
After watching this video, I ordered a pair of these without even seeing (let alone listening to) them prior to the purchase.
I am very grateful and would like to Thank you wholeheartedly for your review.
So refreshing to watch someone that doesn't require 500 cuts in editing to make a video watchable. You sir are a reviewing God.
I literally bought these speakers (whole hog; a full B&W formation integration across our house) off the back of this review.
...naturally following a solid demo. But couldn’t agree more with you on performance and ‘infectiousness’
Coming back to this review in 2024, I own 3 pairs of Duos in different rooms. I like them because of the way they make classical piano music sound, like you are in the room with the pianist. I own a Bluthner grand piano so I know how the instrument should sound, and these are magical. I was planning to buy a high end Naim system, but after hearing these I didn’t bother.
I wouldn't have considered myself as "into" powered loud speakers simply because I enjoyed all the other "gear" that is needed to run passive speakers, it was just fun to me to have all this extra "stuff" to run speakers and make them sound great..... until I hooked up my new Klipsch The Fives - it completely changed the way I look at my audio system and components. I used to have the B&W 802s as my bucket list speaker to someday have, and now I find myself looking more at something like this as a replacement for the 802s on my bucket list??? I still love the way the 802s look, but I have had a major change in mindset since hooking up The Fives (which I'm sure aren't even close to these, yet I still find them amazing -to me) and seeing what can be done with a powered loudspeaker. Thanks for the awesome review, I can't believe I hadn't seen this one until now! As always, keep up the great work the two of you do... and Thank You!
I am glad to see this review. I heard these tucked away in a corner at Best Buy and in that poor acoustic setting, I stopped in my tracks and sat and stared at them. I have owned many Paradigm, B&W, Wharfedale, Dynaudio, and KEF speakers. The B&W Duo's are shockingly good.
Nice review but won’t leave my Nautilus 805’s with my McIntosh Amp. They sound good for the last 15 years and no need to firmware upgrade. Timeless like an automatic watch. Maybe I can use this in my office.
I had both the kef ls50 wireless 2 s and the formation duos. And i was switching back and forth from the kefs to the duos using Spotify connect and to me the duos are much better. Way more crisp sound and not fatiguing at all. The bass sounds superb. Similar to a subwoofer. Im sending the kefs back. The duos are more than worth it atleast to me.
I hope you’re still enjoying the Duos. I am thinking of making the move myself. Quick question. Can you connect the Duos via Bluetooth with a Bluetooth turntable or purchasing the Formation audio device is unavoidable?
Thanks
If you get the duos just make sure to get the stands and they will stay cool or warm to the touch at the base. You could possibly lift them from the surface where ever you have them. But if you have them on a table or console they will get really hot to the touch.
They connect through Bluetooth. I use them for surround sound my LG tv connect to them. There's no lag in the dialogue. Movies sound great. I like them. I use Spotify connect. And I have the formation bass and it's a good musical bass.
@@Ramon-lp8fp I am thinking of connecting them to my laptop via Bluetooth (hope no latency there). I watch movies and listen to music through my computer anyway which is connected on a big screen.
My only fear is support as. Company’s faith on the product given its poor sales performance . I live in London I must have called literally over 20 B&W stores and no one stocks them. A few also told me they used to but not anymore as they were hard to sell. I guess it’s a failed product which is awkward given how great some of the reviews are. I hope its future is not short lived.
@@gpapa31 maybe just wait they might release a formation duos second gen or somethin . I know kef launched there wireless standing speakers. It seems that more companies will probably launch more similar style speakers. In the United States they launched the duos @ 3999$ then raised the price to 4999$ maybe sales were better here. Cause it wouldnt make sense to raise the price on a product that is selling poorly as that would seem to slow sales even more.
@@Ramon-lp8fp I know purists will hate me for saying this but IMHO wireless active is the future of HiFi. It will only get better and gradually, through generations, will put aside the traditional amp + preamp + DAC + passive speakers + wires everywhere. I am not saying it will completely replace the philosophy but it will become like vinyl and CD is to streaming in terms of sound quality and efficiency triggering endless debates on forums and blogs about which one sounds better.
Thanks for the good quality production. Excellent for mentioning you don’t need a sub with these as that I was quite worried about. I‘m definitely planning a listening session at the local Hi-Fi hub.
I was VERY surprised when I looked at the Formation Audio to pair with these and add some functionality, that it didn't have HDMI eARC. If you're looking at changing an ecosystem and way of thinking, in MY opinion, that would have been something almost necessary on the Formation Audio? Hopefully that is coming in the future for these from B&W. I was able to listen to the Duos and was amazed..... but also, equally amazed at the lack of the eARC on the Formation audio. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but to me, it seems like that would have been a no brainer for them on the Audio.
Hi Andrew
You reviewed this speakers back in 2019 and price came down now in 2024, would you still buy them now or something better on market now ( high end active speaker )
Thanks
So this is the 2nd pair of speakers that I have purchased Solely on your reviews!! Yikes ! These maybe my end game .. again your review is spot on the question is what do I do with the Denton 85s that I love so much but these bw duos are .. uhm .. awesome thank you for all you do and love your reviews
Definitely one of your most convincing videos. and about liking a speaker. I just realized it is from July 2019. Do you still stand by the Formation Duo? I recently decided to upgrade from my cheap Yamaha speakers and Mini Rigs and bought a PS Audio Sprout 2 to get started. Intended to buy speakers in the 2-$4k range. Should I send the Sprout back or have you uncovered a passive Formation Duo-like alternative?
Had not the chance to audition these speakers locally and decided to buy them based on reviews like this. Got a pair, defective tweeter, airplay connection unstable to say the least, app is a joke. Got them replaced and in the meantime the app got some updates. If you want them to work properly you need to use their app. Forget about airplay, there’s pops and glitches all the time, no matter the wifi access point one uses. Bluetooth works better but forget about multiroom. First and last B&W product I buy.
i worked at a b&w / nakamichi repair shop in the early '80's. one of the techs built a custom pair of active 2 way speakers using 801 mids and tweeters powered by nakamichi 420 power amps. (55 w per channel class a ). it all sounded very good. hard to believe it's taken 40 years for b&w to see the light.
@Andrew Robinson - maybe have a look at the Buchardt A500s and A700s. I think they kick the B&Ws a bit... Warranty is longer; multiple audio frequency profiles; compatible with multiple transmitters.
A500s similarly priced to the B&Ws, A500s much more powerful by means of Amp and processor power.
...For sure the Buchardts kick the B&Ws.
These are the best speakers I've ever heard - okay, besides this crazy expensive set up (12k+/pair) we heard at Whetstone Audio one time. That said - these B&W's are definitely my favorite of all the ones Andrew's had in house for review. They really are THAT GOOD. He just plugged them back in after a couple of weeks listening to another pair and I knew INSTANTLY they were back, while in another room. They are sooooo good I happy danced when I realized they were back.
I was going to get the kef LS 50s Metas but I went with these something about these just drew me in
God they ugly as hell tho
They look like a 1960s robot from space
Futurama …day the earth stood still …like a speaker that Kong shat out…hideous
Is that a karaoke machine with detachable microphone???…ok I’ll stop…
well they are probably using a Hypex Ncore or ICE amplifier inside, I would like to see how they sound compare to the LS50W, Great review thanks brother
This is why I hate your reviews. I want to sell my car and buy these speakers. You are are so passionate and your reviews are so compelling. Thank you.
Not going to lie, you had me in the first half.
Recently bought these. This is the most I have ever spent on audio gear by a mile and really hoping I would blown away, and hoping I can connect my tv via Bluetooth for occasional music video playback. I muat have watched this and kef ls50 wireless 2 videos so many times but this design was just aspirational for me. Will provide an update after testing.
Hi, Anish.
Do you have any updates? Did you manage to connect them with your TV?
Here for the update.
me tooo 👀
me tooo 👀
Any update?
One of The most amazing speaker I have heard in many many years. 🔉🔉💪💪🙌
Cool, so glad to hear someone else has had the same experience I have had.
No idea. I don't watch other TH-cam reviews of AV equipment. I'm sure his findings were justified to his tastes and experience, just as mine were to my own. But I try not to compare and contrast what I said against someone else's opinion of the same product.
Great review, Andrew. I had not heard of these until I saw your headline. I owned the B&W Matrix 805's back in the 90's and they were imaging SOB's, but the bass was a little light for my taste and the treble range couldn't keep up with the low distortion and speed of electrostatics so I went that way, Martin-Logan CLS's (in addition to Altec 19's and Klipsch Cornwall's). But, driver technology has come a long way since the 90's, so it doesn't surprise me that the 700 series tweeter beats the 800 series diamond tweeter (it seems to me that the diamond layer, while helping distortion because of fewer breakup modes, has hurt the overall speed and clarity. The Focal berylium tweeter always seems to get the edge in comparisons I've read). I am guessing the removal of the traditional crossover is letting both of the drivers shine to their best advantage. Digital crossover and EQ is likely the way forward, although traditional hifi guys will probably keep their firehose speaker cables until the end!
Love your closing remarks! Yes, I fear these beauties will not find that wide of an audience because the enthusiasts who may be able to afford them now, when they need to sell, are likely resistant to change. I appreciate your comment and from one CLS fan (and former owner myself) thanks for watching!
I have a pair of those beryllium tweeters and they don't disappoint.
James 73 It's funny you say that the bass from the matrix 805 was light but every speaker you mentioned afterwards is light in the bass as well.
I'd love to hear and see off between the B&W Formation and the KEF LS 50 II, or maybe even LS 60 ? any chance you can make that happen?
thank you for the review. I've been trying to figure out a new home audio only design and after watching this I bit the bullet and went and bought the Formation Duos, the Formation Audio and the Formation wedge to go along with it. product wasn't in stock so i wont take delivery for two weeks but they let me crank the store models to 11, the whole store was happy, they are flipping amazing.
Would be great to hear your comparison og these to the Burchardt A500?…
Sounds like DSP made this speaker full range. Great review
Hi Andrew, several years later, how do the formation duo compare to the Kef LS60 and other available power speakers of today. Also, if your intention is to build a multi-room system with the formation flex, how does that compare to using the LS60+two pairs of LSX II? Any other multi room systems you’d suggest?
BluOS is a valuable alternative 😉
I have these. They look better in white. They are everything as good as Andrew says. Stunning sound. So simple. Rock solid. 10 stars.
In some of the hi-fi forums many people complain about the formation duo having constant drop outs because of the app. And at that price tag this is really unacceptable. Are you having these problems too?
Still have them? Thoughts Jon?
Im all in!! I just purchased a used pair solely based on your review as well as “whathifi”s review. Can’t wait to get them in my system and room. If for some reason I don’t like them I will simply flip them for close to the same money. I’m excited!!
Did you like them...?
Hi Andrew. Since we now are in ´23, do you know of an upcoming next gen of these speakers i.e. formation duo ver 2.0 ? Thanks in advance.
I have no insider knowledge regarding the future of the Formation Duos. I'd love to see an update though!
Would love to see a review of the 2.0 variation!
Hi Andrew, Just as an FYI - I spoke with Denmarks Hifi Club today, they are the sole distributor in Denmark for B&W. They told me that they are selling all their duo´s with 25% discount due to an update from B&W coming up.
@@MichaelLarsenmla Thanks for the rumor mill update, have been eyeing these myself.
Interesting concept high end wireless audio. But I purchased the 805 d3 before the announcement of the Formation Duo. I am very satisfied with the silky smooth treble the d3 is delivering! And I think it is hard to believe that the Duo speakers is better in this regard... Anyways, I am thinking of the Devialet Pro 200 amplifier. Expensive, but as I understand this Devialet amp has a good DAC included, and streaming out of box is also possible. So, one stylize box (Devialet amp) gives more functions and also less costly cables are required.
Devialet makes killer amps or all-in-one solutions so I doubt you'll be disappointed! Enjoy your 805 Ds!
I run McIntosh C-47 / MC-152 into my 805d3’s. Match made in heaven. If these speakers are so wonderful why is there not a single online review where you can hear them? Makes me suspicious.
When you start adding up components and subs etc., the value of these starts to make sense. You should really try to get a pair of Forte III's in
A lot of people will likely balk at the $4K pricetag, but like you said, once you start adding up all the extra costs, they're actually a fairly good deal. Thanks for tuning in!
I'm not avoiding the Forte III. I get asked to review the Forte IIIs every day, literally. It simply wasn't a request I felt I had to respond to. Give me a break, not everything is a conspiracy you and you alone are capable of uncovering.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews You can only compare a speaker to what you have experience with and no-one can possibly experience every speaker someone else has. I only brought up the Forte because the qualities you liked in the Formation DUO are there in spades with the Forte III so I thought it may be a speaker you would really enjoy. I didn't mean it as bait for the conspiracy theorists, sorry LOL! Looks like that comment is gone though.
Having said that, I know you have heard A TON of great speakers so your glowing opinion of the DUO's has a lot of value to me even though you have not heard some speakers I also like.
We have to digest all of these reviews within the correct context, my friends. Andrew Robinson has done a great job of detailing where he is coming from and that is very valuable as you watch these reviews/opinions etc.
Before taking any TH-camrs opinion as gospel or just too literally, we should think about it within the context of that reviewers experience and overall opinion of the subject at hand. Also, even if every review could include counter-points to any question or competitive product someone may think or ask about, that would make for a very long, very boring video!!
My conspiracy response was not directed at you. It was meant for another user who will no longer be joining us in discussions on this channel. I appreciate your comment(s) and am looking into a Forte review in the future. Best!
Thank you lovely review Andrew. I bought the formation bar & bass and it's as musical as a that format can achieve. I am looking to replace maybe with the duo as I live in a condo and cant have 2 diff systems. I have had parasound JC1, Pass labs Int, Bryston 4BST, Modwright Integrate, Devialet 200, Cary Audio and with all the speakers and pre amps and audio sources, sacd players including the sony SCD-1 I have lost count how many systems I have been through. So 8 years ago I sold off everything I realized I was spending more time changing amps & speakers and tweaking my power cords than listening to music... it's a terrible hobby :) 2 years ago I bought a Sony ta-a1es, Sony hap-z1es and KEF LS50 the sound was truly superb for the money, but it just sat there. I am now looking to sell all 3 of them and get better stuff or sell them and get the Formation Duo. Our mind thinks we need many boxes for audio to sound good and on the other hand I think the duo's will be perfect and the future. BTW the main reason I am listening to so much music now is due to Roon and Tidal it's absolutely fantastic to listen to new music and not just your old flac files. The only people who will bash the duo's are the old folks I got the same treatment when I bought my Devialet but it was one of the best sound I ever had in my system!
great review andrew - i've auditioned about 60 loudspeakers since the beginning of the year across MANY brands for my 2 channel / HT build and my favorite has been the 800 D3 thus far - after hearing this, i will definitely check these out for another application in my house - keep the content coming !
Just ordered a pair of Kef LS50 wireless after months of research. Thanks for making me question my decision. :)
I wouldn't. Enjoy your KEF speakers!
Hi Andrew, have you compared it with a LS50 wireless ii? Do share your point of view, thanks a lot
@Andrew Robinson, you have my resting audiophile juices running again. It has been 20 years since my last major audio purchase. Discovering you on IG and your TH-cam channel has been a godsend; I think. At the moment I own 0 vinyl records and my CD collection is for shit. Since I am already a Tidal subscriber, I'm thinking a digital system with music streaming is my next ticket in. I really enjoyed your review of the B&W Formation Duo Loudspeakers. Before I pull the trigger, will you be reviewing the Buchardt A500s anytime soon?
Buchardt decided not to send us his new speakers so we have no plans to review them.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews What a shame. :-(
I love it they are the best in the world Yes indeed there is no match on this Formation Duo but the price can be a little bit lower so Bowers & Wilkins can sale alot more of the Duo Speakers .
This was the review I was waiting for!
Good review, but I think another advantage not directly spelled out is, not only discrete amps as bi amps, but these are also like monoblocks? So discrete amps for each channel, correct? So like 4 amps. I would finally also say, it's still relative to what you get for the price. How about a pair of JBL Studio 590 or Buchardt S400 paired with a good ~$2k integrated amp like the NAD M10. That's around $4k or less. Would love to then compare against this pair. Would love your thoughts / comparison on this.
Yes, the speakers essentially have a separate amplifier directly powering each driver. So the tweeter has its own amp, the bass/midrange driver has its own amp. Monoblocks for each driver. Couple that with DSP and you get a sound signature that is different than traditional or passive (non-powered) speakers that is hard to beat!
Great review Andrew! I recently auditioned the formation suite of speakers after your review, very impressed. So impressed, I bought the whole line.The only thing I was not able to sample, was a turntable being played through the duo speakers, how does it sound with a turntable?? Again, great review, appreciate the detail. Keep up the great work!
Scott Welch Hi Scott, as a new owner of the Duos, what is your opinion? Any regrets or are you loving them?
Hi Steve, after a couple months of use, I am really enjoying the duos. No regrets.
Great, happy listening! 👌
Is it possible to use these speakers in a surround system, so 7 of these formation duo speakers in a 7.1 system?
Should be able to. Check the Formation Suite…Definitely 5.1
Great review. A few quick points: 1) I'm a long-time B&W user, over 25 years, and have owned 4 pair--currently use 2 different pair, including 803s. If these Duos (? Formations? FDs?) are as good as you describe (as it relates to current and legacy 800 series) they're very, very good indeed. 2) I'm glad you did the "bargain" math towards the end of your review. $5,000 isn't 'cheap,' but it's merely the bottom tier of where good systems come in (yeah, yeah, one can put together a really fine system for around $2,000, I know. Different discussion.) If I were to build a 'system' today, I'd audition the hell out of these and if they come anywhere close to a good integrated amp with a decent streamer/DAC and the 805s (let alone the 800s) , I'd be all over them for $5k. Done! 3) There is absolutely nothing wrong with the HiFi streaming services today. You touch on some audiophile snobbery wrt them in your first couple minutes, but I sure don't see much of it out there anymore. Anyone that, has a problem with Tidal HiFi or Masters (for example) well, there's something else going on. Thanks, nice job.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! You have a great perspective that I find very refreshing!
I am very intrigued. I am a big fan of most B&W offerings. These skyrocketed to the top of my buy list!
Definitely give them a listen for yourself. The eco-system may be the thing that drives some away, but if you're willing to adapt to their needs, they will reward you with truly remarkable sound!
I'm buying these because of this review! With the sub added.
So let us know how they are?
@@pvtcmyers87 Definitely! I'm getting the sound bar first for my TV, then these for music later!
@jez, doe the sub really add spice to the duo?
Does pairing the Formation Bar with the Formation Duo require the Formation Amp to be connected? Also do the Formation speakers work without the Formation Amp in-case using for MultiRoom application with all Formation speakers?
It’s sad we can’t use the duo in front speakers with the bar as a central speakers. The lack of lossless 5.1 or Atmos is also a deal breaker to me. I would love B&W to find a solution to use all their Formation Speakers as we want in 5.2.4 for example as long as the customer wants it. I could agree to spend this money on duos if I can also use them in my 5.1.2 configuration. I can’t afford having a movie speaker configuration and a music speaker configuration. And I think I’m not Aline, cause the Formation doesn’t have a great success even with their speakers quality. They have to think to a better integration..?
Great review. Would be great if you could compare to the newly launched Buchardt A500 ;) all the best
I think the Buchardts are going to kick the B&Ws to the floor...
Yes lets compare to the buchardts a500 please
Great review! Hopefully I can demo these soon. You had some very strong words so they must be pretty special. Keep up the great work
Hi Drew; Can I pair the Duo formation speakers with the flexible sound bar, flexible rears speakers and subwoofer to play in the same room for perfect surround?
I haven't watched in a number of days and just caught this vid. Oddly enough, my friends, whom I'm visiting, have two sets of B&W book self speakers one set in their bedroom, the other in their entertainment media /family room. That set are used as satellites. But, I heard them for the first time ever, and am super impressed by their amazing sound.i don't know what series they are, but they are wired. I'd not heard from them until four days ago. Loken guys the general price range, they aren't cheap by any means, but I think I'll sell my vintage Advent for speakers and invest in some B&W ones. I'm not a fan of powered, wireless....yet! Maybe one day, but not soon. I cringe when you and others call this a "hobby". Would driving a car be a hobby? Cooking one's dinner a hobby? There's got to be a better term to use. We've got to find it! You did another great "orgasmic" excited review, Andrew. And, timely too, for me anyway!
Any thoughts for this combination: Naim Unity Atom and the following: Klipsch RPM 600M ; or Bowers and Wilkins 705 S2; New Meta KEFs ( wireless or wired) ;
Thanks
Not sure if you would know this. But do I need the formation audio to connect duos to my Sony A9F? Also do you think it’s valid to have this (expensive) hifi 2.0 setup in a TV audio world that has stuff like Atmos
Hi Andrew. How do you feed Tidal MQA music to the Duos? I've been looking at a way ti do it, but I can't see anything in the instructions - e.g. native streaming as with the Kef Wireless speakers. I can only see lower protocols like Airplay and Bluetooth
I too have this question
roon
Do you think the duo formation is perfect first pair of speakers for the living room? Or should I stick to the old classic loudspeakers? My dad currently is still using the DM602, and it’s still amazing!
Kef wireless 50 first
It would be good to have a bit of context to what you mean by better than the 800 series. I've heard 803's and 802's and they beat the duo's quite easily in my opinion. If you're talking about the stand mounts, fair enough. Not tried them and I'll take your word for it. As I mentioned in another comment on here I ended up getting the 702's over these. For the size of my room and the amplification I have they sound better to me. The duo's sounded better in store though so I'm glad I did a home demo.
Any tips for setting TV vs Duo volume when using the formation audio? Appears they are independently adjustable and not sure what makes for optimal audio quality
Personally, I'd configure the TV to max and use the Duo's volume. Same as if it were connected to a receiver.
Pffft not as good as my pair of echo dots and echo sub.
Truth.
I auditioned them yesterday at the Rocky Mountain Audio convention 9/8/2019 and I agree with your assessment. I had my 25 YO daughter with me and I personally am pretty much set up Old School ( to include B&W's ) but if I was starting fresh with today's tech. I would recommend taking the leap. B&W did it again! IMO
We're seeing a lot of wireless/streaming products but most is 2 channel only. GoldenEar has their new wireless/powered etc...speaker which look interesting. What I'd like to see is more multi-channel configurations. A 7 or 9. whatever system using all powered/wireless speakers. I've toyed with powered monitors in my theater from Genelec and Emotiva but there is still the wired issue.
Currently the only company that I'm aware of doing multi-channel wireless is Bang & Olufsen, though Bowers & Wilkins did say that in the future the Formation platform could adapt to or be compatible with multi-channel.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I'm actually surprised a company like Meridian (are they still around) hasn't jumped in. I always thought they were ahead of their time.
How is it possible for internal, most likely class D amps to sound as good as a quality, external $2k amp? Agree that DSP, tuning,etc can be great. However class D, switching amps generally don’t sound the same. Your review has me curious and appreciate the overall, personal sound perspective that you included along with comparison thoughts. Nicely done review.
It's amazing how long actives have existed and finally, major makers are producing them. "On paper" they're superior to passive speakers for obvious reasons. Now adding other connectivity and such, and that's win win win. The B&W Formation Duo should be an active 805 for that kinds $, but I have no doubt they sound great.
Nice review! I wonder how they compare against Buchardt A500?
Good question! I'd like to know too!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I would also love to see your review regarding A500 and to hear how does it compare to Formation Duo - please make us happy, please ;)
Thanks for great vid Andrew! I am currently planning a speaker upgrade, but I have not considered powered speakers until now. The Formation duo seems like a tempting alternative. I would have to add the Formation Audio for my turntable setup. The biggest con about the Formation duo is, as I see it, the app. I currently use Tidal hifi and cannot understand why they have not integrated this in the formation app, or direct play trough the TIdal app. Even if Roon solves the problem, it is still both pricy and inconvenient to have to use multiple apps. Do you have any info or thoughts about how soon B&W will include Tidal Hifi in the app, and maybe even locally stored music files? Thanks again, Kristoffer.
It is too bad you don't include some music with your reviews...I have a pair of B&W DM6 Speakers which I love and have now paired them with Fluance Signature series bookshelf speakers...which are great...they even produce a pretty good strong Bass...I have been an audofile before your were even born and at 82 I still enjoy vinyl , cds and r2r tape....enjoy your videos very much..
How doesn’t this guy have a few million subscribers... literally the most informative, interesting and well edited and great content out there. I see the most dumbest channels with millions of a free hundred million subs. Quite odd. I can’t stop watching.
Will these work and sound good with Marantz 40n, and are the stands sold separately? How does it sound when played at low volume? Not using a tube amp, does these have that soft sweet sound? I have moderate hearing lost and trying to hang on to that music sound pleasure of my youth. In your opinion does these have the clarity of the same sound as the Lii Song S10? Thanks so much for your opinion! 👍
Perhaps listen to the whole review Marantz would be totally superfluous ..😊
The idea behind these speakers is really good. Definitely the direction the market is going. No DSP? or room correction software? That would be nice. Would be great if they also added speakers and software to allow for ATMOS for Home theater setups.
I have been told by B&W that there is a lot of potential along the lines of what you describe that can be unlocked in future firmware updates. That despite not having typical connections, there's still more to the Formation Ecosystem than meets the eye right now.
Big....What makes you think there is no DSP going on here?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Most likely their is DSP however what I'm referring to is active room correction software such as Dirac.
I heard the Formation Duo’s at my local Magnolia room (Best Buy). There must have been something wrong, because there is no way in hell that they came anywhere close to the 805 D3s that were in the same room.
Had the same impression. I was quite disappointed with the sound of the Duo's.
Yea dito. Hell they weren’t even close to the 705 S2 that were paired to a Nad M10 I auditioned the same day.
I 100% agree. I just auditioned these two days ago, side by side with the 805 D3s, and it wasn’t even close. That being said, the 805 D3s were paired to a $8,000 McIntosh MA8900. But honestly miles apart (and I don’t pretend to have a particularly discerning ear by any measure). The duos have incredible bass, though!
How would you compare them to the devialet phantom gold stereo?
There's absolutely NO WAY I'd spend $4k on ANYTHING (audio related or not) that relies on an app for control. Waaaaay too much potential for it to become an obsolete brick in 10 years (just look at SONOS). A product at this quality and price point deserves to have some future-proofing.
@Adam Audio How? The speakers have no controls other than volume. Besides, he has a good point, and its not new. The more we rely on these apps, the less independent control the user has. With a passive system you could connect your speaker from 20 years ago, or 30 years ago, or 40 years ago, or 50 years ago -- see where this is going? Now ask yourself, will anybody still be using Bluetooth in 20 years? Will it still be around in 5 years? Nothing can obsolesce a product quicker than wireless technology. You could end up with a pair of 4 thousand dollar paper weights in a few years.
As someone currently pissed off at SONOS as they abandon my older products, agree. I’ve dreamt of owning a set of B&W speakers for over 20 years and just never found the money to buy a set of 803s. After listening to this review I was feeling myself pulled towards buying a pair, until I remembered exactly what you say above - you’re just putting your entire existence into the hands of their support and if they stop supporting then you’ve got nothing but a pretty brick.
ummm, how old is your car? new cars are 'computer' controlled. a computer run by internal apps. like a desktop/laptop.
@@krane15 i use my laptop via ethernet. i only used the app to set them up. my friends like to stream from their phones when they come over.
Sam Kool It’s a 1999, so it has fuel injection and oxygen sensors but not a whole lot else. I’m aware that cars use computers, but they generally don’t rely on other devices for user control. Everything is contained within the car and generally works for the life of the car. Also, car computers (excluding infotainment systems) don’t run “apps” like a laptop or smartphone-it’s lower-level than that.
Great Andrew, your vids are the best.
Thank you so much, I do my best! Appreciate you watching!
Best VIDEO is via streaming ??? Netflix's 4K bitrate tops out at 15.25 Mbps. UHD BlueRay Disc's bit rate goes up to 100 Mbps--or a times 7 increase in quality over Netflix. (I can't see the bit rate for Amazon Prime 4K selections.)
I've got a formation sound bar and sub. How will they pair with the duo? will it be better than just having the duo?
Hi Andrew can you please help me with some advice.
I am trying to find for a good friend a “match “ for wired or wireless speakers.
Can you please tell me in your opinion with is the perfect match for Naim Uniti Atom ? ( what wired or wireless speakers do you think will sound best for majority music genres )
Thanks a lot
Bogdan
PS : myself I am already a Formation Duo fan....
One Question. Have you ever tested a YAMAHA A-S2100 Amplifier?? Thank you 👍
Nope.
@M Pi. What?!
So, you've got The Yamaha A-S2100? How does the Amplifier perform?
And what Speakers are you using? 🤷♂️
Based on my personal and direct experience, a speaker with its own built-in amp and crossover is the best of the rest! Please let B&W know at that price, they NEED to get with Roon and get their devices certified to work natively with Roon!
All the formation series are Roon ready
After just getting the wedge I’m sold on B&W and the ecosystem. The duo’s are definitely an aspiration piece.
Are you gonna review Devialet?
Thank you Andrew for your detail review on B&W Formation Duo speakers... for similar price range, how would you compare these with a pair of Devialet Phantom I 103dB speakers? i'm very curious...
Did you test those speakers with other references at hand so you actually compared them? What was the test setup?
I had several loudspeakers on hand which included JBL L100 Classics, MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL, Kanto YU6, a not yet namable product (dropping August 1), and Buchardt Audio S400.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews What amplifiers are you using?
Marantz, Crown, Emotiva at present. But have had Krell, Levinson, AudioResearch and Band-width in house as well over the past months.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews which of the amps and spkrs that u have when connected together sound closest to the B&W duo?
Can the sound bar function as a centre speaker only when used in unison with the duo and sub?
I've been told it can, but I cannot confirm it firsthand as I was not sent the Formation soundbar to test. So take my statement with a grain of salt.
Andrew Robinson - Can you please do a comparison with the LS50 Wireless?
these B&Ws are twice the price of the KEFs...
@@net_news I reaylly wanted to like the KEF LS50's but after several auditions I've found the " look at my tweeter" voicing somewhat tiring too " in your face" & un natural.... & this is after "priming" myself that I should like them given thw overwhelmingly + reviews.....
@@BogdanWeiss I had the LS50s... they are excellent but I think there are better and cheaper options nowadays.
@@net_news I've been a long time fan of Kef, but somehow - despite my agreement with much of their tech & execution - I seem to prefer other speakers that just sound more musical & natural to me - I heard a harshness in high frequencies ( well broken inn pair ) that I just could not " un-hear" - I really wanted to like them, but I was finding the sound fatiguing very fast..... It's a bit like their bandpass bass loading from a while ago - it seemed to measure well etc but just sounded terrible to me - it was the poor transient response...
@@BogdanWeiss I had similar experience... I replaced the LS50s with the Harbeth P3ESRs and the Klipsch Rp-600M in my 2nd system. Both speakers, the Harbeths and the RP-600M, liked much more than the LS50s. I know I cannot say this kind of things... but I prefer the 600Ms over the LS50s... wow... sacrilege!!!
Just make sure to buy stands as well or speakers will heat up. Because the vents are on the bottom.
I haven't been able to find anything confirming that the Duo supports MQA yet you mention Tidal Masters and 24/96 in the same sentence. Am I missing something?
B&W's own website talks about the Formation Duo's 24/96 playback capability right on the main page.
Can i ask how you listened to tidal masters on these im about to pull the trigger on some but ive read they dont unpack MQA you have to listen to 24/96 flac files..great channel been watching for years but only subscribed today because this review...
But through what protocol can you stream that quality ? At least airplay 2 I don’t think goes as high in quality…
wifi. You can get something like Roon along with Tidal masters or your own hi res uploaded tracks
Andrew, from all accounts these B&W Duo's seem impressive and I value your opinion. However, I've stumbled across a little know brand called Dutch & Dutch and they have what might be a serious competitor ( The 8c model) to these Duo's albeit at twice the price. BUT, since you are a HUGE powered monitor fan perhaps a "showdown" is due if for nothing else the Best of the Best powered speakers/monitors. Would love to have you review both at the same time! If anyone can make it happen it's you 👊🏽✊🏽👍🏽 Please make it a reality . Thanks
Or the Kii Three aswell while you’re at it... please..
These are more than twice the cost tho
amazing channel, learned a lot, is it possible for you to review the B&W formation bar, with formation bass and flex it could be interesting to ese if they are an amazing wireless sorround system, thnaks
Can this integrate with my other B&W speakers? I have some 700 series and some 800 speakers.
Unfortunately, no.
I hv been using the Bowers 804 D2 for years. Auditioned the duo recently, the duo's clarity cannot beat 804's diamond tweeters that produce extreme high clarify... Also, the 804D has more layer/depth significantly. Having said so, the duo's mid and low can be roaring!
Very exciting! As a lazy person who likes good music, I hop that one day I'll be wealthy enough to afford these!
Excellent, first rate review (as always) -- thank you
Thank you so much! I sincerely appreciate it!
Thanks for this great review Andrew! Your enthousiam is contagious :-) I'm looking for an upgrade for my Dynaudio Xeo 20's. I've tried the floorstander Xeo 30, but the dynamics and soundstage is not what I'm looking for. I'm using a NAD C658 pre-amp with Dirac room correction, as my room acoustics are horrible. The NAD however only has an analogue out (RCA). Would you recommend the Formation Duo as an upgrade over the Dynaudio Focus XD (20 or 30)? And would the Duo's be usable with the NAD C658 and Dirac? My music is all digital, I stream from Roon, Tidal, Spotify and my NAS.
How does it compare to my floor-stand B&W603S3 in terms of sound quality? I'd like to upgrade but not much sure...
He pretty much said they are at the level of the floor standing 800 series so I think that means formation Duo.
he said they were maybe the finest speakers and your asking about the entry level series....shouldn't be hard to answer your own question with a bit of listening..lol
Great review Andrew, loved it!
I wonder how the new KEF LS50W 2 ($1500 cheaper) stack up against these? Is the jump in price really worth it?
I auditioned the kef ls50w 2. The duos has much better sound stage and deeper lingering bass
Hi i have 19ft X 14 ft room i am planing to get B&W formation series the DUO pair, WEDGE Pair , Formation bar and sub woofer is this good enough for a room of that size
That's way, WAY more than enough.
Duo apparently do not work as front left and right for surround system. So Bar, Bass and a pair of Flex work together with the bar connected to the TV by fibre optics. Fibre optics is compressed audio in 5.1 and 7.1. So the Duo just sit their unless you switch to stereo and then I presume the other speakers can't be thrown into the mix.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 thank you for educating me , so for the room of same size is formation duo and base enough ??
@@ckgrosu5147 The Duo are certain up to the task of filling a large room with full range stereo. You do not need the Bass unit. I don't see anyone shown Bass being added to Duo. However the Flex, paired and then can have Bass for a 2.1 system saving a lot of money but not a match to the Duo. Bar adds front left and right and centre for surround to a pair of Flex as rear. The Wedge can be paired. More bass than the Flex but is for single source music output. For multi-room system you can use all the speakers together but you do not need them all in one room for stereo.
Is there any concern that this product is tightly app-integrated? e.g. future support of Android / app, say, 10 years from now?
Thankfully, you can interface with them via Bluetooth, wifi etc too through "typical" pairing methods, but to get the most out of them you do need the Formation App, which if B&W were to discontinue or stop supporting you may be SOL. But 10 years is a good lifespan IMHO. Thanks for watching!
PCUser, Definitely and B&W has had a poor track record for supporting legacy product.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt that was my worry too. B&W make some beautifully sounding products but I've had firmware problems with some of their previous multiroom stuff and so bailed on formation. I loved the liveliness & clear treble of these when I auditioned them. I just can't cope with being locked into B&W software.