All are talking about the 737 MAX, i remember crashes because of a faulty rudder power control valve or faulty radio altimeter giving wrong inputs to the Auto Throttle or ice obstruction on both engine fuel-oil heat exchanger on a 777....
@@bobdobalina838 They are all English. "Mayday-alternatively known as Air Crash Investigation(s) in Australia (Seven Network), New Zealand, South Africa, and the United Kingdom; alternatively known as Air Crash: Disaster Revealed on 5Select and some Asian and European countries; and additionally known as Air Emergency, Air Disasters, and Mayday: Air Disaster[2] in the United States"
I guess Boeing's bean counters didn't take the material cost of reputational damage to your business into account when preparing their spreadsheets justifying the kind of cost cutting that's led to this mess. Also, I point blank refuse to call them "quality escapes". That's a mealy-mouthed euphemism that makes it sound like it wasn't anybody's fault and that it's not as bad as it really is. Quality control FAILURES (which is what these are) are absolutely the fault of the quality control process. Quality control doesn't "escape", it fails.
Exactly. Back in the 90's I worked as a repair technician for Snap On Tools, a company with a pretty solid reputation for quality. I was fired without cause when I pointed out product quality issues which I knew would affect product reputation. No one cares about the long term, it's all about quarterly profits.
C'mon, give 'em some slack. They have been manufacturing that fuselage for just a little more than 50 years. They still need to get familiar with the process.
@@timakey4678Boeing and the FAA are massively neglegent😢. I am a pilot and afraid to fly, scared to go to the FAA as they holler at me when I speak up!
@@coolvideos777 They are certainly negligent, but it is a deliberate negligence driven by greed. They decided to compromise the quality control process because doing so improves the bottom line, helps boost the stock price, and provides for massive bonus checks for senior management. They likely did so knowing full well that it would eventually backfire. I say that because, if that management team was fired tomorrow they would still live out their lives in luxury unimaginable, and unreachable, to most of us. To me the demise of Boeing is being driven by the exact same character flaw that has undermined our democracy, compromised our environment, and is driving the fall of the American empire...greed. Greed for money. Greed for power. Every helpful religion and philosophy human kind has ever imagined regards greed as one of the worst of human vices. Yet it is the very foundation of the American way of life. It is certainly at the core of consumer, cut-throat capitalism. It is utterly unsustainable. It will bring down Boeing. It will bring down the country as well.
Greed per se isn't bad. The problem is that it is massive stock price increase right now and not a 20 year plan. We aren't going to spend ten years training a machinist if we can hire a foreign worker today.
The "mis-drilled holes" were no doubt only discovered because of the very close scrutiny that 737 Max aircraft have received in light of the Alaska Airline door plug blowing out, otherwise these planes would have been completed and delivered to their respective customers....
@@mariannorton4161 No reason for hysterics or histrionics. Especially with the fix identified and caught before final assembly. This is more a schedule and profit problem for Boeing as opposed to safety problem. So now just like the 787, the Max will be the most scrutinized and ergo safest plane produced as soon as they are released for service.
Top management did not want to hear safety objections to their decisions from the factory experts doing the work. That’s why they moved headquarters to Chicago. It’s management malfeasance.
Boeing thanking a worker at an unamed supplier for coming out and mentioning he made a mistake on the floor... unreal.!! Thanks.. Where were you 49 airframes ago.....Spirit and Boeing!! Perfect couple.!!
As their biggest customer, Tom Clarke (Emirates)said, " This is Boeings last chance saloon, they need to get back to safety" Boeing has chanced its arm for to long, if they dont sort out the safety requirements first, then its history. thats after giving Boeing a $52billion order. They understand that its only the max for now, but with same management which is next 777X?
He is all mouth isn't he ? For years he has been moaning and groaning, threatening an accusing and done nothing about it. Another airline , Ryanair has been beating their chest and crying about the 737.
A. it's Tim Clark, not Tom B. Emirates is NOT Boeing's biggest customer. They're currently the biggest 777X customer, but definitely not the biggest customer. Counting new orders in totality, United Airlines is probably the biggest customer.
The irony is that Spirit AeroSystems has no issues when producing parts for Airbus...so I am convinced the problem is more likely with Boeing and what Boeing is asking Spirit to do....
The fact that the FAA wanted all the 737 MAX to have EICAS (like any other Boeing aircraft) and is now accepting certification of all types without it (compromising somewhere in the middle) is even more insane! Thanks to the Congress decision in late 2022 for that. That's the real weight of Boeing in politics and FAA.
The US corporations have really lost it. Customers are also to blame when they cannot understand that they are paying for a faulty product, and thereby keeping bad suppliers in business.
Boeing is the only US manufacture of airliners. Nothing will truly change because in the US profit is all that matters. The FAA is just as corrupt as every other US institution. Plus the government will just bail them out to keep them afloat. Personally I've changed every flight that was booked on a Boeing plane. I don't fly to often, but airbus all the way. Just like with cars I don't buy American garbage.
Mandate their CEO's and accountants to fly on each new 737 max while hand cuffed to the plug door panels without seat belts ... while in icy weather. And hand them 4 similar looking bolts just before take off. It's just an idea.
@nickolliver3021 Airbus has a good image with the public, quite the opposite of its “concurrent” which will be a thing of the past, if it continues on this momentum
Those fellas are putting our lives in unnecessary danger. The mcas debacle was bad enough, as in breaking golden rules of engineering and safety, redundancy, error checking, reliability, and not giving the pilots a big red button that just stops the plane from fighting the pilot commands.
I have been living in the USA past 22 years, 15 of which in NYC. The mount of schlendrian (cutting corners and unprofesionalism) which I have seen, has been staggering. Especially in construction and engineering the American theme song seems to be “that’ll-do” the main consideration is lining up pockets of bankers and venture capitalists - this is the result.
Boeing used to be run by engineers. Now Boeing is run by accountants. Safety is not a word accountants know how to spell. Safety is a byword that engineers live by.
The fuselage problems on the 800/8MAX goes back many years. 60 minutes Australia did a segment on it. You’ll notice that it was never aired over here, but was available on TH-cam. Boeing did not create the problem, but did cover it up. Two Boeing employees who tried to bring the issues to light were told to shut up, and were eventually fired for trying to resolve the issues. As I remember one of them was from Boeing’s Corporate Ethics Department - go figure. It was not an engineering problem, but tracked to a problem with a sub contractor in Los Angeles manufacturing the fuselage joiners. The problems were noticed during assembly in Kansas at Spirit Aerospace. Quick fixes were utilized to get the fuselages shipped. This was grossly inappropriate and would be very difficult if not impossible to find during final assembly at Renton. Virtually every 737-800 incident I’ve seen images of has experienced fuselage failures - Guess where - Yep at the join points. Boeing didn’t create the problem - but - they did disregard it once they were made aware.
This was a problem that Boeing knew about years ago, there was a documentary featuring the sacking of an employee who raised the wrongly drilled holes problem. Boeings new strap line “ Over your dead body”.
The reality is, Boeing knew. It doesn't matter who points at the reality and is fired for it, or worse, gets dumped on by internet trolls like nickolliver.
i can understand the need for subcontractors as things become more and more complex. it can be hard for a single company to have master/experienced personnel to accomplish every aspect of designing and producing an aircraft. but it also seems like subcontractors are the way to go when boeing can almost always point the finger if it's something that didn't happen under their own roof.
Spirit used to be owned by Boeing. It is a former Boeing division. Spinning it off let Spirit pay workers less than Boeing unions would allow. Keeping the division in house is easy. They did it for decades. It was a cost cutting move, nothing more.
Your product, your responsibility. It's really that simple. Besides for Boeing cheer girls and Boeing beta testers flooding the internet. Laying off 900 inspectors after killing 346 people might have consequences.
How can you have miss drilled holes in the first place ? It seems the people doing this work are either not competent or not trained properly or they are told to overlook these issues . There is a culture problem at Spirit AeroSystems . It seems they are prioritising throughout and cost over quality and safety . This is a huge problem . My guess this arises from a conflict in priorities and cultures between Boeing and Spirit AeroSystems . Boeing need to take over Spirit AeroSystems or Boeing need to move to Bring manufacturing back to Seattle . Spirit AeroSystems are a danger to Boeing’s reputation if this is allowed to continue
Sick and tired of BA's missteps. When a plane goes out the door, it's expected to be 100% perfect, not just for safety of the public, but also for BA's reputation. Profit and revenue are secondary to the long-term reputational damage that management has caused. Waiting for the class action lawsuit. Totally pissed.
I've been heavily critical of Boeing, but honestly this story doesn't bug me as much as the rest of the Max debacle. This is the system working the way it should. Sure, it would've been better if there hadn't been any problems to find, but finding and fixing a problem before it causes an incident is how the system is supposed to work. I'm much more worried about the de-icing system still not being fixed.
Before laying all the blame on Spirit, consider that Boeing will have negotiated hard on pricing. It's an old observation that in any commercial system, price is always reduced until quality reaches the lowest acceptable level; and then it only takes a couple of MBAs on steroids to break things.
Yes money is and should be a major aspect when running a manufacturer, but it must not be the ONLY aspect. Engeneering, managment of employees, public trust, money and also moral should be kept in balance it you decide the way of a huge company. That balance in Boeing ran away as fast as the stabilizers of those Max Planes.
Yeah, I just quit Boeing after 10 years. The cost cutting is pervasive throughout every aspect of Boeing, both the commercial and defense entities. It will become MUCH worse now for the employees as their jobs and pay will be severely stressed.
I’ve been a fly8ng passenger for 50 years and, by far, most of my time was spent in a Boeing plane of one type or another. Until recently, I’ve always been comforted knowing that our planes are the best. First the MCAS nonsense revealing just how badly Boeing took advantage of a loose sleeping FAA to completely fudge the certification process (and let’s be honest, that’s exactly what they did in a practically criminal way). Now these horrific examples of quality control blunders is leaving me almost completely disillusioned with Boeing altogether. Those friggen idiots need to have their wings clipped. I don’t understand how at least half a dozen executives have not lost their jobs over these massive screwups!. There is absolutely no accountability and they are single handedly trashing the American airline industry. They were allowed to operate completely unsupervised and they took full advantage in every way they possibly could. I am literally ashamed of them and it breaks my heart to say it.
As an American working in the industry I do want them to fail or simply put get their nose so bloody from this they revamp their ethics of profit over quality. Genuinely tired of number chasing companies. If they fail let that be example to other companies of what happens.
Who loses in all of this? Hard working individuals who are trying to put food on the table, give a decent life to their husband / wife and kids, struggling to pay back mortgage. They will lose big time. These execs are losing nothing.
@@nsbhagwat most likely but rather that than a flight go down because of poor quality and safety. We can always go out find a job but loss of life not just from one but multiple instances in aviation is the red line. Being that technician that signs off on listed items or be it the one tightening the bolt or reviewing documents, safety of flight or changing the tire. If your name was on that bird and it goes down you will be drawn into that investigation it’s not pretty for those that had no effect to it. Bottom line loss of job tough but loss of life unacceptable.
This is the third time we hear about misdrilled holes. The first time was years ago and the worker got fired. The second time was months ago and was covered by the media. The third time is now. In other words. The supposedly easy fix isn't as easy to fix with Boeings unsafety culture, firing 900 inspectors after killing 346 people on their planes surely didn't help.
In the Navy they will sack the Captain of the ship. There was a ship collision near Singapore. The Navy sacked the Captain. The famous Quality Control consultant Dr. Deming said that management makes the most mistakes. Quality and malfeasance belongs to management and their responsibility for the best Corporate Culture
Instead the CEOs probably gave themselves bonuses when they saved money by firing all of the inspectors, now they’ll give themselves another bonus for identifying the need for more inspectors. 🙄
Yep and those inspectors warned them, they laid off their most experienced workers to save money on wages and then hired scrubs with no aviation background to replace them and they wonder why they have so many end product defects. If I were an airline CEO looking at Boeing I'd be sending my own team of inspectors to look over the shoulders of the Boeing inspectors. Not just the MAX happened with the KC-46 as well. The air force put off replacing the KC-135 for nearly thirty years because Boeing promised them something better and what they got was junk. Same thing with Lockheed and the F-35 THIS IS ALSO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S NO COMPETITION OTHER THAN AIRBUS.
Simple people are simple to replace. And simple people know that they can be replaced easily. And that's deliberate, to ensure people don't speak up in order to stay in the job.
CEOs probably gave themselves bonuses when they saved money by firing all of the inspectors, now they’ll give themselves another bonus for identifying the need for more inspectors. 🙄
It's probably because Spirit builds those airframes in other places, like Germany. It's probably harder to corrupt other cultures than it is to beat down Americans in "Texarkana." You should know the labor pools are very different. Mobility in America is an illusion. Housing in America is horrifyingly monopolized.
These things are already happening. Whether they should is academic by now. So I think it’s good that this is getting out and that it’s being addressed. And that Boeing/Spirit take reputational damage over compromising safety.
Does it really make sense to keep updating a design from 1965? Maybe the 737 should have been discontinued years ago and a new design created, probably with newer design methods and materials. Of course. that is no doubt more expensive, but what is your reputation worth? I know I will not fly on a Boeing plane again when there appear to be safer alternatives.
@@nickolliver3021 Except the 320 could be upgraded to modern standards without any compromises. They could easily hang on enormous new engines without anything else needing to be done. That's the very reason the MAX exists in the first place, Boeing got complacent and was caught flat-footed. The 737 began life as a compromise, it's no surprise that it would keep producing problems down the line.
@@Killerpixel11 And then by that logic the 737 could be upgraded to modern standards without compromises. The 737 could hang bigger engines but a slight adjustment was made. There may be isdues with the neo soon as something will go wrong. The a320neo will have a life of compromises problems will come out sooner rather than later
An error, a mistake, an omission are all better than the fancy term escape. It's like when used cars started to be referred to as pre-owned. It is still a used car, just using a fancy term to male yourself feel better.
Well, I understand it is more problems concerning the Max, but for me, these are good news. At least they’re concerned with the quality of the final product
FYI: Spirit Aero Systems also builds the A350 fuselage. Either there are similar problems there and there's way too much drama at Boeing for anyone to notice, or Airbus doesn't have similar quality escapes.
@@jantjarks7946 Er...ok. Spirit makes fuselage sections and front wing spars for the Airbus A350 in North Carolina, USA. Other components are made in France and Spain, but I know what I'm talking about.
I should add that I worked for a company making components for Boeing in the good old bad old days. We had a " quality escape" and first of all Boeing came and were extremely blunt about the consequences of any further failures plus rectification costs after having decided that it was not safely critical although serious. BUT then the FAA turned up and offered to nail our heads to the nearest bulkhead plus a huge fine- tens of millions, and a promise of intense scrutiny for an unspecified period plus any further escapes would mean no further work in aerospace. And now............?
But, BOEING programs are directed by BOEING. Including letting poorly trained "mechanics" self certify their own in process work other programs at spirit aerosystems do NOT. Quantity without compromise is what is demanded, quality is just a word they preach.
Flew Wizz Air (Airbus) from London to Bulgaria return, last time I went out there and I will do so again next time; probably later this year. I do not intend to fly Ryanair over there any more, unless I have no other choice. Nothing dropped off the Boeing planes (as far as I know, thank goodness) during my many previous flights, it's just a personal decision I have made and I am sticking with it
I would love to see how it is that you can drill holes in the wrong place. My thought was that this would be an automated process with a sensor guided drilling machine that drills the holes in the fuselage. My fear is they have a 200lb gorilla with a DeWalt just drilling holes where they think it looks good.
DJ, are you able to get reporting on what these companies have found in their inspections of the Max 9? The buzz about Boeing now is there are all kinds of problems with the nuts and bolts of the model. But if you managed to find out and report no significant issues have been found, that could help point to a different narrative.
Yep but tell me why airbus has less problems… maybe (and it’s me just speculating ) airbus just doesn’t put that much pressure than Boeing. Airbus has also had its issues but airbus redesigned a new plane Boeing just refurbished an old plane and branded it as new…
you just need to replace some engineers by a ton of finance people and cut down the time the shop floor people need to work properly. And the end you do not allow the certifying staff to inspect the aircraft but to sign the paper work blindly...
Short term money making is more important than anything else, which means they don't have a clue about the future or worse, they don't believe there's a future...
This is what happens when you lay off all your experienced workers and hire scrubs to replace them. Solution maybe they need to let the end user inspect the product while it's being built. Seems none of the QA measures Boeing has taken are getting the job done. So why not let the airlines send their own people to do the inspecting.
Can anyone say why one shot of a takeoff shows a small parachute attached to the vertical stabilizer? A second shot shows one attached at height as well.
Boeing was a very good company, however they have gone the way of so many companies. It is not enough to make money, you have to make more money than last year, you need to cut costs, you have to expand every year and deliver at break neck speed. All that matters are the shareholders in their view and until that changes the "quality escapes" will continue, they may improve for a while whilst under scrutiny but I do not expect that improvement to last.
I'm relieved that Boeing identified these issues with undelivered aircraft, indicating they're taking proactive steps to prevent future mishaps. However, Boeing bears responsibility for the situation; having in-house production for the Max aircraft might have improved matters. Spirit AeroSystems needs to step up their game too. Boeing must enhance quality control across all companies involved in Max production to prevent future incidents. Great video, DJ keep up the good work!
To be fair, this one is squarely on Spirit. Boeing is reworking once made aware. Boeing can’t prevent what happens at Spirit, they can only stop it by reworking.
Not totally true. When Boeing contracts out work, they are supposed to have staff assigned to the contractor to carry out inspections as work is completed. Either the inspectors assigned didn't do their due diligence, or Boeing didn't have inspectors assigned to Spirit. This is when everything is running smoothly. After the "escapes" they have had since December alone, there should have been a more concentrated effort for the inspections at Spirit. It seems Boeing is not taking this seriously, as a former senior manager at Boeing is being told by current employees that the factory is worse off than it was before the two crashes.
Third time misdrilled holes. This is nothing new. Obviously with Boeings unsafety culture it's not easy to fix what has been forced upon the factory floor for years. The very reason why inspectors have to come from the outside, to ensure they haven't aligned to the unsafety culture already.
Frankly as with the DC10 of years ago the 737 max is under such scrutiny that I believe it will become one of the safest planes in the air. My cousin husband was an underwriter with Sun Alliance one of the biggest aviation and shipping insurance underwriters during the days of the DC10 debacle he reckoned it was one of the safest planes to fly in once the door problem was resolved.
Boeing and the airlines deserve each other. Look how much money everybody is now saving because the pilots didn't need new certification for a new plane.
This is actually a positive. Boeing has stepped up their qc and are now identifying flaws. These next few years will be painful for them but they are making strides to get back to their roots where they made great planes.
From what I can't tell these last several decades have been a decline in company culture for Boeing and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Boeing go down as an example of when the bottom line is far more important than people's lives. I'd love to see some real innovation in an airplane company that actually values safety, as much, if not more than than Boeing. Any engineers out there who will challenge Boeing's legacy and build a better company? I'm all for it.
What seems to missing from the story is that most if not all of the affected fuselages are not in completed aircraft but at Renton or Spirit. Not all were found to be defective. This is why it is not an air safety issue but fitting new window frames will impede production. Airbus too is suffering delivery delays for "supply chain issues". Which technically is what Boeing is suffering. We don't know the details of Airbus's delays. Is it defective parts from a supplier like those jamming A320 doors last year.
the 737 is still SAFE and a workhouse for Delta, Southwest, American, United AND Alaska, thousands of 737'a fly every single day its a safe aircraft for the amount of people that have flown on it. were there mistakes? yes but i dont feel it should effect the 737 legacy
Spirit failed in properly drilling holes and detecting it through quality control. But they eventually pinpointed the process failure when Boeing required a thorough production process review. Boeing was supposed to detect these defects through their own quality control whenever they received fuselage segments from Spirit, as they are required to do. What went wrong at Boeing? Did they just rely on Spirit and disregard the need for checks on their own??
I would also suggest to Being to check the fastening of the wings and landing gear to prevent them from falling off, especially mid-flight. Also, I think fuel tanks should be checked for excessive leaking.
A perfect example of why certain companies should not have shares publicly traded. Show me the money now people do not care about what happens in 5 years, let alone any time after that. This is also why companies should be allowed to go out of business. Also without people getting a golden parachute.
Yesterday: We are having a Stand Down to reinforce how important safety is. Today: Hurry up, you know you have 47 seconds to do that task and it took you 49 seconds -- one more screw up and you're fired!
And do you have any real evidence DEI is causing this? I’ll wait. This is an issue of bean counters being in charge and senior management being more about sucking up to Washington rather than focusing on managing an engineering company.
That’s what happens when you sell your factory and tooling to the highest bidder, then reduce the price you pay for the fuselage that comes out of what is no longer their factory.
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Boeing is single-handedly going to keep the TV series 'Mayday/air disaster' going for years.
Well said!…😂😂😂
Isn't it called "crash scene investigation" in english
😂😂😂
All are talking about the 737 MAX, i remember crashes because of a faulty rudder power control valve or faulty radio altimeter giving wrong inputs to the Auto Throttle or ice obstruction on both engine fuel-oil heat exchanger on a 777....
@@bobdobalina838 They are all English.
"Mayday-alternatively known as Air Crash Investigation(s) in Australia (Seven Network), New Zealand, South Africa, and the United Kingdom; alternatively known as Air Crash: Disaster Revealed on 5Select and some Asian and European countries; and additionally known as Air Emergency, Air Disasters, and Mayday: Air Disaster[2] in the United States"
I guess Boeing's bean counters didn't take the material cost of reputational damage to your business into account when preparing their spreadsheets justifying the kind of cost cutting that's led to this mess.
Also, I point blank refuse to call them "quality escapes". That's a mealy-mouthed euphemism that makes it sound like it wasn't anybody's fault and that it's not as bad as it really is. Quality control FAILURES (which is what these are) are absolutely the fault of the quality control process. Quality control doesn't "escape", it fails.
Quality escape is a cross industry term
Exactly. Back in the 90's I worked as a repair technician for Snap On Tools, a company with a pretty solid reputation for quality. I was fired without cause when I pointed out product quality issues which I knew would affect product reputation. No one cares about the long term, it's all about quarterly profits.
This is quite literally not their fault
I bet Airbus are laughing their tits off😂😂😂
@@declanbrady5172They’re feeling dumb for not having expanded the A320 family production sooner and further
C'mon, give 'em some slack. They have been manufacturing that fuselage for just a little more than 50 years. They still need to get familiar with the process.
I like the sarcasm.
U-tube snark of the day!
@@timakey4678Boeing and the FAA are massively neglegent😢. I am a pilot and afraid to fly, scared to go to the FAA as they holler at me when I speak up!
@@coolvideos777 They are certainly negligent, but it is a deliberate negligence driven by greed. They decided to compromise the quality control process because doing so improves the bottom line, helps boost the stock price, and provides for massive bonus checks for senior management. They likely did so knowing full well that it would eventually backfire. I say that because, if that management team was fired tomorrow they would still live out their lives in luxury unimaginable, and unreachable, to most of us. To me the demise of Boeing is being driven by the exact same character flaw that has undermined our democracy, compromised our environment, and is driving the fall of the American empire...greed. Greed for money. Greed for power. Every helpful religion and philosophy human kind has ever imagined regards greed as one of the worst of human vices. Yet it is the very foundation of the American way of life. It is certainly at the core of consumer, cut-throat capitalism. It is utterly unsustainable. It will bring down Boeing. It will bring down the country as well.
Greed per se isn't bad. The problem is that it is massive stock price increase right now and not a 20 year plan. We aren't going to spend ten years training a machinist if we can hire a foreign worker today.
The "mis-drilled holes" were no doubt only discovered because of the very close scrutiny that 737 Max aircraft have received in light of the Alaska Airline door plug blowing out, otherwise these planes would have been completed and delivered to their respective customers....
And that thought should scare the hell out of people.
They probably had been reported and hushed-up / waved through before, only now they are able to own up and be seen to take care of the faults….
@@mariannorton4161 No reason for hysterics or histrionics. Especially with the fix identified and caught before final assembly. This is more a schedule and profit problem for Boeing as opposed to safety problem. So now just like the 787, the Max will be the most scrutinized and ergo safest plane produced as soon as they are released for service.
A lot of airlines CEOs are thinking right now: "At least the aircraft is cheap..."
That’s true
It has negative value if the plane keep getting grounded.
It’s 7:37 am for me 😂
It is DEAD cheap
It won’t be cheap if God forbid something bad happens😢
Top management did not want to hear safety objections to their decisions from the factory experts doing the work. That’s why they moved headquarters to Chicago. It’s management malfeasance.
Another poster said that the wife of the ceo didn't want to leave Chicago. Given the general level of craziness, it is believable.
MD management in a Boeing suit...
Boeing can’t be allowed to keep building planes. They have clearly lost their ability to do so safely.
*MCAS: Money Comes Above Safety.*
Cames?
@@nickolliver3021 What? No such word as cames, it would be Comes Above Safety.
May Crash Anytime Soon!!!
🤣
Money, money, money is only concern to management with MBA mindset which barely understands any engineering and scientific principles .
I wonder how long it will take until Boeing simply states "It's all Airbus fault,if they haven't built A320NEO none of this would be happening!"
Boeing thanking a worker at an unamed supplier for coming out and mentioning he made a mistake on the floor... unreal.!!
Thanks..
Where were you 49 airframes ago.....Spirit and Boeing!!
Perfect couple.!!
Spirit IS Boeing, or at least used to be.
As their biggest customer, Tom Clarke (Emirates)said, " This is Boeings last chance saloon, they need to get back to safety" Boeing has chanced its arm for to long, if they dont sort out the safety requirements first, then its history. thats after giving Boeing a $52billion order. They understand that its only the max for now, but with same management which is next 777X?
He is all mouth isn't he ? For years he has been moaning and groaning, threatening an accusing and done nothing about it. Another airline , Ryanair has been beating their chest and crying about the 737.
It won't be the 777x. He is just scared it may affect is 777xs but it wont
I think its Tim Clark and he is whiner and always has been. I think it is his ploy to extract maximum discounts from suppliers
A. it's Tim Clark, not Tom
B. Emirates is NOT Boeing's biggest customer. They're currently the biggest 777X customer, but definitely not the biggest customer. Counting new orders in totality, United Airlines is probably the biggest customer.
May be that Boeing has thrown out too many skilled workers, so the rest have to work double shifts.
Boeing / Spirit AeroSystems' mantra: "Quality is #2"
Whatever number after profit, reputation, and professionalism
That high
The irony is that Spirit AeroSystems has no issues when producing parts for Airbus...so I am convinced the problem is more likely with Boeing and what Boeing is asking Spirit to do....
“Safety third”
@@jpazinho No doubt, Spirit execs have thrown their hands in the air many times because of Boeing's meddling and cost cutting.
A hole that has been wrongly drilled, cannot be un-drilled.
What is the problem to repair a drilling? Just watch the standard repair manual...
They can fill with a bolt. Hmm wait a minute...
@@user-yt198 now thats funny!
Poly filler
Duct tape?
Boeing used to own "Spirit Airsystems". It was the old Wichita Division.
Average day at Boeing😂
Gor that right 😂
More problems to be found in 2024
The fact that the FAA wanted all the 737 MAX to have EICAS (like any other Boeing aircraft) and is now accepting certification of all types without it (compromising somewhere in the middle) is even more insane! Thanks to the Congress decision in late 2022 for that. That's the real weight of Boeing in politics and FAA.
The US corporations have really lost it. Customers are also to blame when they cannot understand that they are paying for a faulty product, and thereby keeping bad suppliers in business.
Boeing is the only US manufacture of airliners. Nothing will truly change because in the US profit is all that matters. The FAA is just as corrupt as every other US institution. Plus the government will just bail them out to keep them afloat. Personally I've changed every flight that was booked on a Boeing plane. I don't fly to often, but airbus all the way. Just like with cars I don't buy American garbage.
Mandate their CEO's and accountants to fly on each new 737 max while hand cuffed to the plug door panels without seat belts ... while in icy weather.
And hand them
4 similar looking bolts just before take off.
It's just an idea.
Yeh right that is what will happen
🤔
That would make them think.
The Airbus switchboard must be busy?
Thank you for this update, Dj!
The 737 series' reputation has been ruined.
Just the max series.
@@andysPARK There are still people who are not gonna fly any 737 because they don't know the difference between a 737 MAX and the other 737s
@@andysPARKyou think people will trust any other products that Boeing claims is safe?
@@xsu-is7vqor even airbus
@nickolliver3021 Airbus has a good image with the public, quite the opposite of its “concurrent” which will be a thing of the past, if it continues on this momentum
Airbus need to build a new factory to meet this demand.
The MCAS was just the tip of the iceberg...
Those fellas are putting our lives in unnecessary danger. The mcas debacle was bad enough, as in breaking golden rules of engineering and safety, redundancy, error checking, reliability, and not giving the pilots a big red button that just stops the plane from fighting the pilot commands.
I have been living in the USA past 22 years, 15 of which in NYC. The mount of schlendrian (cutting corners and unprofesionalism) which I have seen, has been staggering. Especially in construction and engineering the American theme song seems to be “that’ll-do” the main consideration is lining up pockets of bankers and venture capitalists - this is the result.
Boeing used to be run by engineers. Now Boeing is run by accountants. Safety is not a word accountants know how to spell. Safety is a byword that engineers live by.
Thx to spirit but spirit are not run by engineers either
we can thank McDonnell Douglas's management team for that when they merged.
The fuselage problems on the 800/8MAX goes back many years. 60 minutes Australia did a segment on it.
You’ll notice that it was never aired over here, but was available on TH-cam. Boeing did not create the
problem, but did cover it up. Two Boeing employees who tried to bring the issues to light were told to shut up, and were eventually fired for trying to resolve the issues. As I remember one of them was from Boeing’s Corporate Ethics Department - go figure. It was not an engineering problem, but tracked to a problem with a sub contractor in Los Angeles manufacturing the fuselage joiners. The problems were noticed during assembly in Kansas at Spirit Aerospace. Quick fixes were utilized to get the fuselages shipped. This was grossly inappropriate and would be very difficult if not impossible to find during final assembly at Renton.
Virtually every 737-800 incident I’ve seen images of has experienced fuselage failures - Guess where - Yep at the join points. Boeing didn’t create the problem - but - they did disregard it once they were made aware.
This was a problem that Boeing knew about years ago, there was a documentary featuring the sacking of an employee who raised the wrongly drilled holes problem. Boeings new strap line “ Over your dead body”.
John Woods from Al jazeeera
The reality is, Boeing knew.
It doesn't matter who points at the reality and is fired for it, or worse, gets dumped on by internet trolls like nickolliver.
Boeing and Spirit place a very high priority on DEI.
My experience is that when you decrease merit quality goes down.
I have a new motto:
“If it’s a Boeing, I’m not going!”
A delivery with different specifications is not an accideent.
It is deliberate.
Why do they need to fix undelivered aircraft but not delivered aircraft? Why isn't it a safety issue for the delivered aircraft 🤔
i can understand the need for subcontractors as things become more and more complex. it can be hard for a single company to have master/experienced personnel to accomplish every aspect of designing and producing an aircraft. but it also seems like subcontractors are the way to go when boeing can almost always point the finger if it's something that didn't happen under their own roof.
Spirit used to be owned by Boeing. It is a former Boeing division. Spinning it off let Spirit pay workers less than Boeing unions would allow. Keeping the division in house is easy. They did it for decades. It was a cost cutting move, nothing more.
Your product, your responsibility.
It's really that simple. Besides for Boeing cheer girls and Boeing beta testers flooding the internet.
Laying off 900 inspectors after killing 346 people might have consequences.
How can you have miss drilled holes in the first place ? It seems the people doing this work are either not competent or not trained properly or they are told to overlook these issues . There is a culture problem at Spirit AeroSystems . It seems they are prioritising throughout and cost over quality and safety . This is a huge problem . My guess this arises from a conflict in priorities and cultures between Boeing and Spirit AeroSystems . Boeing need to take over Spirit AeroSystems or Boeing need to move to Bring manufacturing back to Seattle . Spirit AeroSystems are a danger to Boeing’s reputation if this is allowed to continue
Sick and tired of BA's missteps. When a plane goes out the door, it's expected to be 100% perfect, not just for safety of the public, but also for BA's reputation. Profit and revenue are secondary to the long-term reputational damage that management has caused. Waiting for the class action lawsuit. Totally pissed.
I've been heavily critical of Boeing, but honestly this story doesn't bug me as much as the rest of the Max debacle. This is the system working the way it should. Sure, it would've been better if there hadn't been any problems to find, but finding and fixing a problem before it causes an incident is how the system is supposed to work. I'm much more worried about the de-icing system still not being fixed.
It puts another spot light on the real issue:
Boeings unsafety culture.
Before laying all the blame on Spirit, consider that Boeing will have negotiated hard on pricing. It's an old observation that in any commercial system, price is always reduced until quality reaches the lowest acceptable level; and then it only takes a couple of MBAs on steroids to break things.
Yes money is and should be a major aspect when running a manufacturer, but it must not be the ONLY aspect.
Engeneering, managment of employees, public trust, money and also moral should be kept in balance it you decide the way of a huge company.
That balance in Boeing ran away as fast as the stabilizers of those Max Planes.
Yeah, I just quit Boeing after 10 years. The cost cutting is pervasive throughout every aspect of Boeing, both the commercial and defense entities. It will become MUCH worse now for the employees as their jobs and pay will be severely stressed.
I’ve been a fly8ng passenger for 50 years and, by far, most of my time was spent in a Boeing plane of one type or another. Until recently, I’ve always been comforted knowing that our planes are the best.
First the MCAS nonsense revealing just how badly Boeing took advantage of a loose sleeping FAA to completely fudge the certification process (and let’s be honest, that’s exactly what they did in a practically criminal way). Now these horrific examples of quality control blunders is leaving me almost completely disillusioned with Boeing altogether.
Those friggen idiots need to have their wings clipped. I don’t understand how at least half a dozen executives have not lost their jobs over these massive screwups!. There is absolutely no accountability and they are single handedly trashing the American airline industry. They were allowed to operate completely unsupervised and they took full advantage in every way they possibly could. I am literally ashamed of them and it breaks my heart to say it.
Boeing should just give up and leave it to the professionals……………………………………….Airbus 🙏
As an American working in the industry I do want them to fail or simply put get their nose so bloody from this they revamp their ethics of profit over quality. Genuinely tired of number chasing companies. If they fail let that be example to other companies of what happens.
Who loses in all of this? Hard working individuals who are trying to put food on the table, give a decent life to their husband / wife and kids, struggling to pay back mortgage. They will lose big time.
These execs are losing nothing.
@@nsbhagwat most likely but rather that than a flight go down because of poor quality and safety. We can always go out find a job but loss of life not just from one but multiple instances in aviation is the red line. Being that technician that signs off on listed items or be it the one tightening the bolt or reviewing documents, safety of flight or changing the tire. If your name was on that bird and it goes down you will be drawn into that investigation it’s not pretty for those that had no effect to it. Bottom line loss of job tough but loss of life unacceptable.
Happy to see Boeing having issues everyday. It’s the great news to humanity.
More like spirit having issues
Responsibility is with Boeing. No one else.
@@jantjarks7946 yet spirit was at fault
It's the responsibility of Boeing.
Are you a chatbot or unable to understand even the most basic things?
I had heard of misdrilled holes on the fuselage from Spirit Aerosystem at least 6 months ago
yes, these are different misdrilled holes
This is the third time we hear about misdrilled holes.
The first time was years ago and the worker got fired.
The second time was months ago and was covered by the media.
The third time is now.
In other words. The supposedly easy fix isn't as easy to fix with Boeings unsafety culture, firing 900 inspectors after killing 346 people on their planes surely didn't help.
In the Navy they will sack the Captain of the ship. There was a ship collision near Singapore. The Navy sacked the Captain. The famous Quality Control consultant Dr. Deming said that management makes the most mistakes. Quality and malfeasance belongs to management and their responsibility for the best Corporate Culture
Instead the CEOs probably gave themselves bonuses when they saved money by firing all of the inspectors, now they’ll give themselves another bonus for identifying the need for more inspectors. 🙄
No no Sprit used to be Boeing so should not be called a supplier.
Well they fired lots of inspectors including, quality inspectors who verify the work after every steps to save a buck and increase profits.
Yep and those inspectors warned them, they laid off their most experienced workers to save money on wages and then hired scrubs with no aviation background to replace them and they wonder why they have so many end product defects. If I were an airline CEO looking at Boeing I'd be sending my own team of inspectors to look over the shoulders of the Boeing inspectors. Not just the MAX happened with the KC-46 as well. The air force put off replacing the KC-135 for nearly thirty years because Boeing promised them something better and what they got was junk. Same thing with Lockheed and the F-35 THIS IS ALSO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S NO COMPETITION OTHER THAN AIRBUS.
Simple people are simple to replace. And simple people know that they can be replaced easily.
And that's deliberate, to ensure people don't speak up in order to stay in the job.
CEOs probably gave themselves bonuses when they saved money by firing all of the inspectors, now they’ll give themselves another bonus for identifying the need for more inspectors. 🙄
Fun fact spirit makes the fuselages for airbus as well but somehow we don’t hear any problems from their camp
It's probably because Spirit builds those airframes in other places, like Germany. It's probably harder to corrupt other cultures than it is to beat down Americans in "Texarkana." You should know the labor pools are very different. Mobility in America is an illusion. Housing in America is horrifyingly monopolized.
🤔🤫
These things are already happening. Whether they should is academic by now. So I think it’s good that this is getting out and that it’s being addressed. And that Boeing/Spirit take reputational damage over compromising safety.
Too late for that, their reputations are in the toilet.
Doubtful United will flip..
Who's going to want to give up coveted delivery slots to bump them up !!
This never ends does it
What's the sound of an airplane breaking?
"BOEING!"
🤣
Does it really make sense to keep updating a design from 1965? Maybe the 737 should have been discontinued years ago and a new design created, probably with newer design methods and materials. Of course. that is no doubt more expensive, but what is your reputation worth? I know I will not fly on a Boeing plane again when there appear to be safer alternatives.
All that apues to the a320 too. But it can't because of demand
@@nickolliver3021 Except the 320 could be upgraded to modern standards without any compromises. They could easily hang on enormous new engines without anything else needing to be done. That's the very reason the MAX exists in the first place, Boeing got complacent and was caught flat-footed.
The 737 began life as a compromise, it's no surprise that it would keep producing problems down the line.
@@Killerpixel11 And then by that logic the 737 could be upgraded to modern standards without compromises. The 737 could hang bigger engines but a slight adjustment was made. There may be isdues with the neo soon as something will go wrong.
The a320neo will have a life of compromises problems will come out sooner rather than later
Great video and info ❤
“Quality Escape” is a fancy way to say “defect”.
An error, a mistake, an omission are all better than the fancy term escape. It's like when used cars started to be referred to as pre-owned. It is still a used car, just using a fancy term to male yourself feel better.
The quality escaped because profits chased it off.
All this information sounds alarmingly like “The bean counters costing everything but valuing nothing” management.
At this point, I’m not surprised.
Boeing 737 MAX engines by CFM1 are having dangerous de-ice failures
No, they aren't. There's a potential safety issue with that system that's important to address, but there is no actual incidents.
Probably has nothing to do with DEI
correct, it doesn't.
@@Viss_Valdyr exactly! Hiring based on DEI has EVERYTHING to do with merit, that why they need DEI👍👍
Conservatives found new talking point and now "woke" has been forgotten.
Well, I understand it is more problems concerning the Max, but for me, these are good news. At least they’re concerned with the quality of the final product
For/from all of we/us/they/them armchair aviation experts: Your video is full of beautiful scenes of wonderful aircraft. Very nice footage, thank you.
FYI: Spirit Aero Systems also builds the A350 fuselage. Either there are similar problems there and there's way too much drama at Boeing for anyone to notice, or Airbus doesn't have similar quality escapes.
Completely different factory,
completely different workers,
completely different continent,
completely different customer.
@@jantjarks7946 Er...ok. Spirit makes fuselage sections and front wing spars for the Airbus A350 in North Carolina, USA. Other components are made in France and Spain, but I know what I'm talking about.
This is so much better with the sound turned off
I should add that I worked for a company making components for Boeing in the good old bad old days. We had a " quality escape" and first of all Boeing came and were extremely blunt about the consequences of any further failures plus rectification costs after having decided that it was not safely critical although serious. BUT then the FAA turned up and offered to nail our heads to the nearest bulkhead plus a huge fine- tens of millions, and a promise of intense scrutiny for an unspecified period plus any further escapes would mean no further work in aerospace. And now............?
Hey United Airlines don't forget Spirt makes parts for Airbus as well.
Sure, but the problem is giving too much responsibility to suppliers. You need to verify everything they do, as you would in any other industry
@@joelimbergamo639And pay them to sabotage the competition
But, BOEING programs are directed by BOEING.
Including letting poorly trained "mechanics" self certify their own in process work other programs at spirit aerosystems do NOT.
Quantity without compromise is what is demanded, quality is just a word they preach.
Dj, you make the Airbus problem with deliveries bigger then quality issues at Boeing. That’s how you sound to me.
Flew Wizz Air (Airbus) from London to Bulgaria return, last time I went out there and I will do so again next time; probably later this year. I do not intend to fly Ryanair over there any more, unless I have no other choice. Nothing dropped off the Boeing planes (as far as I know, thank goodness) during my many previous flights, it's just a personal decision I have made and I am sticking with it
How many quality escapes can occur on this plane model. Sounds like the whole plane just missed any safety oversight.
I would love to see how it is that you can drill holes in the wrong place. My thought was that this would be an automated process with a sensor guided drilling machine that drills the holes in the fuselage. My fear is they have a 200lb gorilla with a DeWalt just drilling holes where they think it looks good.
You are not that far off ...
DJ, are you able to get reporting on what these companies have found in their inspections of the Max 9? The buzz about Boeing now is there are all kinds of problems with the nuts and bolts of the model. But if you managed to find out and report no significant issues have been found, that could help point to a different narrative.
Alaska ignored cabin pressure warnings...Also at fault.
A fair assessment of Boeing's woes.
Lets not forget Spirit Aero Systems also supplies fuselage and other parts to Air Bus too.
Yep but tell me why airbus has less problems… maybe (and it’s me just speculating ) airbus just doesn’t put that much pressure than Boeing. Airbus has also had its issues but airbus redesigned a new plane Boeing just refurbished an old plane and branded it as new…
How the hell do they keep getting things so wrong?
Profits before safety, i heard alot of stories where engineers were complaining about safety, they got fired..:)
you just need to replace some engineers by a ton of finance people and cut down the time the shop floor people need to work properly. And the end you do not allow the certifying staff to inspect the aircraft but to sign the paper work blindly...
Short term money making is more important than anything else, which means they don't have a clue about the future or worse, they don't believe there's a future...
This is what happens when you lay off all your experienced workers and hire scrubs to replace them. Solution maybe they need to let the end user inspect the product while it's being built. Seems none of the QA measures Boeing has taken are getting the job done. So why not let the airlines send their own people to do the inspecting.
They like money a bit too much
Just scrap the dam MAX
The CEO of Ryan Air said the aircraft is the best. That counts for something. At least more than a bunch of ill informed internet keyboard warriors.
Why scrap the max? Its a manufacturing defect and has nothing to do with the max itself. Just another keyboard warrior ig
@harshbayad7 The MAX is a basterdised airframe from the late 50's...its a death trap..
@@jaym8257the same CEO that wanted to charge passengers to use the onboard toilet?
@@tomstravels520 Send me a link on that please? Otherwise you're pulling that out of your back side.
Can anyone say why one shot of a takeoff shows a small parachute attached to the vertical stabilizer? A second shot shows one attached at height as well.
Will this ever end? I'm not booking any flight scheduled to operate on the Max
Boeing was a very good company, however they have gone the way of so many companies. It is not enough to make money, you have to make more money than last year, you need to cut costs, you have to expand every year and deliver at break neck speed. All that matters are the shareholders in their view and until that changes the "quality escapes" will continue, they may improve for a while whilst under scrutiny but I do not expect that improvement to last.
I'm relieved that Boeing identified these issues with undelivered aircraft, indicating they're taking proactive steps to prevent future mishaps. However, Boeing bears responsibility for the situation; having in-house production for the Max aircraft might have improved matters. Spirit AeroSystems needs to step up their game too. Boeing must enhance quality control across all companies involved in Max production to prevent future incidents. Great video, DJ keep up the good work!
But Boeing didn't identify the newest issue. It was Spirit that identified it.
And how many have been delivered with the problem or similar ones?
To be fair, this one is squarely on Spirit. Boeing is reworking once made aware. Boeing can’t prevent what happens at Spirit, they can only stop it by reworking.
maybe so, but it is down to Boeing as Spirit is their contractor.
@@cplcabsbut spirit have to fix what they did wrong
Not totally true. When Boeing contracts out work, they are supposed to have staff assigned to the contractor to carry out inspections as work is completed. Either the inspectors assigned didn't do their due diligence, or Boeing didn't have inspectors assigned to Spirit.
This is when everything is running smoothly. After the "escapes" they have had since December alone, there should have been a more concentrated effort for the inspections at Spirit.
It seems Boeing is not taking this seriously, as a former senior manager at Boeing is being told by current employees that the factory is worse off than it was before the two crashes.
Third time misdrilled holes. This is nothing new. Obviously with Boeings unsafety culture it's not easy to fix what has been forced upon the factory floor for years.
The very reason why inspectors have to come from the outside, to ensure they haven't aligned to the unsafety culture already.
@@jantjarks7946 boeings unsafety culture? Jeezus
rework what holes where? Veretical - horizontal - or wing join bolts? Which holes?
Frankly as with the DC10 of years ago the 737 max is under such scrutiny that I believe it will become one of the safest planes in the air. My cousin husband was an underwriter with Sun Alliance one of the biggest aviation and shipping insurance underwriters during the days of the DC10 debacle he reckoned it was one of the safest planes to fly in once the door problem was resolved.
$$$$$$$ before SAFETY 👍👍
Boeing and the airlines deserve each other. Look how much money everybody is now saving because the pilots didn't need new certification for a new plane.
This is actually a positive. Boeing has stepped up their qc and are now identifying flaws. These next few years will be painful for them but they are making strides to get back to their roots where they made great planes.
From what I can't tell these last several decades have been a decline in company culture for Boeing and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Boeing go down as an example of when the bottom line is far more important than people's lives. I'd love to see some real innovation in an airplane company that actually values safety, as much, if not more than than Boeing. Any engineers out there who will challenge Boeing's legacy and build a better company? I'm all for it.
Boeing needs to ditch Spirit!
They cant
What seems to missing from the story is that most if not all of the affected fuselages are not in completed aircraft but at Renton or Spirit. Not all were found to be defective. This is why it is not an air safety issue but fitting new window frames will impede production. Airbus too is suffering delivery delays for "supply chain issues". Which technically is what Boeing is suffering. We don't know the details of Airbus's delays. Is it defective parts from a supplier like those jamming A320 doors last year.
Airbus seem to have some well made quality products. Suggest you give them a call.
the 737 is still SAFE and a workhouse for Delta, Southwest, American, United AND Alaska, thousands of 737'a fly every single day its a safe aircraft for the amount of people that have flown on it. were there mistakes? yes but i dont feel it should effect the 737 legacy
Ragazzi devo prendere un max 8 Ryanair tra poco.. mi potete rincuorare al riguardo?
Ad oggi è sicuro viaggarci e i problemi sono stati risolti? Grazie
I have never flown yet in my life. I don't know if I ever will, but if I do eventually fly , all these issues makes me want to fly with Airbus.
OMG this could be the issue that leads to a massive shake up in the Boeing supply chain quality processes and monitoring.
When you think you make more money cutting corners by cheaping out on labor but forget you build, oops, I mean assemble airplanes.
Spirit failed in properly drilling holes and detecting it through quality control. But they eventually pinpointed the process failure when Boeing required a thorough production process review.
Boeing was supposed to detect these defects through their own quality control whenever they received fuselage segments from Spirit, as they are required to do. What went wrong at Boeing? Did they just rely on Spirit and disregard the need for checks on their own??
Of course there is!!!!
Did they drill holes through the engine fuel tanks this time?
I would also suggest to Being to check the fastening of the wings and landing gear to prevent them from falling off, especially mid-flight. Also, I think fuel tanks should be checked for excessive leaking.
A perfect example of why certain companies should not have shares publicly traded. Show me the money now people do not care about what happens in 5 years, let alone any time after that. This is also why companies should be allowed to go out of business. Also without people getting a golden parachute.
How can rework before delivery be necessary, but delivered planes with same issues be okay? Cosmetic?
No, money
Yesterday: We are having a Stand Down to reinforce how important safety is.
Today: Hurry up, you know you have 47 seconds to do that task and it took you 49 seconds -- one more screw up and you're fired!
Boing must formally and publicly reject DEI. They must insist on only hiring and promoting only the best qualified candidates.
And do you have any real evidence DEI is causing this? I’ll wait.
This is an issue of bean counters being in charge and senior management being more about sucking up to Washington rather than focusing on managing an engineering company.
That’s what happens when you sell your factory and tooling to the highest bidder, then reduce the price you pay for the fuselage that comes out of what is no longer their factory.