Curve Tracer Shootout-DCA75 Pro, ELV KS700, Circuit-ED CT100
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2017
- Roger compares 3 different transistor curve-tracers: 1 analog, 2 USB-connected digital ones.
Support Roger on Patreon: / kainkalabs
Links:
ELV KS7000: Build manual, schematics etc
Pt. 1: de.elv.com/elv-serie-7000-ken...
Pt. 2: de.elv.com/elv-serie-7000-ken...
(If you want to download it you have to create an account with a (phantom) European adress. The download consists of 2 parts of the paper. Each is about 49 ct payable via PayPal)
Peak Atlas DCA75 Pro:
www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dc...
Circuit ED CT100: www.circuit-ed.com/
Forum-entry: forum.mikroe.com/viewtopic.php... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thank you for this instructive video on comparing different curve tracers !
Thank you for this great and very useful video! I am busy with OCR of the article and editing the result of the build description in English because I think this is stil a very useful instrument? This is an example of google translate and with minor edit a useful translation is the result.
transistors
Transistors are 3-electrode semiconductor devices used to amplify or switch electrical signals. At the beginning of the semiconductor era there were germanium transistors, which, however, were largely (but not completely) replaced by silicon transistors as the level of development increased. There are both PNP and NPN versions of both types.
An essential feature of a transistor is that a current IB flowing into the base of the transistor is multiplied by a specific factor, resulting in the collector current IC. If you divide the collector current by the base current, you get the current gain B. Since transistors behave differently at different voltages and currents, it often makes sense to describe them in more detail by showing their characteristic curves.
Figure 5: Characteristics of an NPN small-signal transistor
Figure 5 shows the characteristics of an NPN small signal transistor as an example. The collector-emitter voltage UCE from 0 V to 40 V is plotted on the horizontal axis, while the vertical axis shows the collector current IC. The characteristic curves 0 to 7 now describe the relationship between collector-emitter voltage and collector current for a very specific base current. With a base current IB = 0, curve 0 shows us that no collector current IC flows over the entire collector-emitter voltage curve.
Figure 4: Connection diagram of a Zener diode
In curve 1, which corresponds to a constant base current IB of 10 μA, a collector current of approx. 5 mA flows in the range from 5 V to 40 V, while below 5 V it drops in the direction of 0. The greater the impressed base current, the greater the value of the collector current. As already mentioned, the essential feature here is that the collector current is a specific multiple of the base current. With a constant base current, the collector current is also constant over a wide range (approximately between 5 V and maximum). Only at very low voltages does the base current drop towards 0.
Figure 6: Connection diagram of NPN and PNP transistors in emitter circuit
The left half of Figure 6 shows an NPN transistor in a common emitter configuration. A constant current IB is fed into the base of the transistor via the dropping resistor RB. This base current, multiplied by the current amplification factor of the relevant transistor, results in the collector current IC, which flows through the resistor RC in the collector circuit into the collector of the transistor. Collector and base current leave the transistor together at the emitter connection. Since the current amplification factors of small-signal transistors are in the range of 100 to 1000 and of power transistors still around 50 (fold), one can in most cases ignore the base current when calculating the emitter current and make the following statement with a good approximation:
collector current IC = emitter current IE.
Good video. The DCA75 is great for shortlisting transistors for further screening. It's quite slow when tracing curves. Clearly there's a gap in the market but the number of more advanced curve tracers that would be sold must be small
It’s been a while since KL released a video. Hope all is well. Yours is one of the best ECE channels around.
I have a bunch of questions about the ks7000. Let me know if you wouldn’t mind answering a few. Thanks for all the great videos!!
Yes, I´m still alive. New videos will follow soon. I was extremely busy in the last 3 years.
@@KainkaLabsI was wondering exactly the same thing. I'm so glad you are well!!!
very useful, thank you!
Great video, thanks a lot! It was very useful to learn about the major aspects of the different curve tracers. As such, I would say that all the rests is just toys compared to the ELV solution. I downloaded succesfully the PDF docs, and just hoping to find someone who made a digital version of the PCBs to share. I am not familiar with PCB design softwares..
Very nice review!
KalinkaLabs, did you link the schematic for the ELV anywhere? Thanks!
Yes. If you open the full description of the video with "Show more...".
It can be downloaded from ELV for less 1€/$, but you have to create an account and have to live in Europe for that :-(
@@KainkaLabs Links: ELV KS7000: Build manual, schematics etc.
I had the ELV TT 7001 once, but sold it because there was only Windows < XP software. Regretting it a lot today :(
Yeah. Especially because ELV measurement devices from the 7000-series sell for quite high prices at Ebay nowadays.
I was really lucky with the KS7000 as unassembled kit for less than 100 Euros.
I just got the two PDF's with the details of the KS7000. I used a German address to get by the limitation. Just make sure you use an address that has a valid ZIP code. The limitation is rather silly since you're only downloading a file. There is no delivery, which is what the site software is intended for. The fake address is not cross checked with your name or email at all, and in the most simple form, you can use Paypal or a credit card to pay for the two articles. The articles are only 0.49 Euro a piece. I'm currently investigating Curve Tracers, to replace my Tek 5CT1, and I've found some interesting details in the description that I may use myself.
Hi, I myself purchased the german manual but for the life of me just cannot find a way to have them properly translated online. All services ive tried including google bring an absolute rubish translation and does not make much sense at all. I am very disappointed and do not know how to solve this
@@ovi_4 I am busy with OCR of the article and editing the result of the build description in English because I think this is stil a very useful instrument? This is an example of google translate and with minor edit a useful translation is the result.
transistors
Transistors are 3-electrode semiconductor devices used to amplify or switch electrical signals. At the beginning of the semiconductor era there were germanium transistors, which, however, were largely (but not completely) replaced by silicon transistors as the level of development increased. There are both PNP and NPN versions of both types.
An essential feature of a transistor is that a current IB flowing into the base of the transistor is multiplied by a specific factor, resulting in the collector current IC. If you divide the collector current by the base current, you get the current gain B. Since transistors behave differently at different voltages and currents, it often makes sense to describe them in more detail by showing their characteristic curves.
Figure 5: Characteristics of an NPN small-signal transistor
Figure 5 shows the characteristics of an NPN small signal transistor as an example. The collector-emitter voltage UCE from 0 V to 40 V is plotted on the horizontal axis, while the vertical axis shows the collector current IC. The characteristic curves 0 to 7 now describe the relationship between collector-emitter voltage and collector current for a very specific base current. With a base current IB = 0, curve 0 shows us that no collector current IC flows over the entire collector-emitter voltage curve.
Figure 4: Connection diagram of a Zener diode
In curve 1, which corresponds to a constant base current IB of 10 μA, a collector current of approx. 5 mA flows in the range from 5 V to 40 V, while below 5 V it drops in the direction of 0. The greater the impressed base current, the greater the value of the collector current. As already mentioned, the essential feature here is that the collector current is a specific multiple of the base current. With a constant base current, the collector current is also constant over a wide range (approximately between 5 V and maximum). Only at very low voltages does the base current drop towards 0.
Figure 6: Connection diagram of NPN and PNP transistors in emitter circuit
The left half of Figure 6 shows an NPN transistor in a common emitter configuration. A constant current IB is fed into the base of the transistor via the dropping resistor RB. This base current, multiplied by the current amplification factor of the relevant transistor, results in the collector current IC, which flows through the resistor RC in the collector circuit into the collector of the transistor. Collector and base current leave the transistor together at the emitter connection. Since the current amplification factors of small-signal transistors are in the range of 100 to 1000 and of power transistors still around 50 (fold), one can in most cases ignore the base current when calculating the emitter current and make the following statement with a good approximation:
collector current IC = emitter current IE.
I would say the DCA75 is for identifying components and verifying that they work. It does trace curves, but it's not a Tek 575. But then, what is?
At lower base currents, the BJT looks a lot like a sharp cutoff pentode. At higher base currents, it looks like a power output valve. Interesting...
danke für die Vorstellung des KS 7000 - damals konnte ich mir den nicht leisten und jetzt gibt es etwas in der Art nicht mehr. Ich werde wohl einen "Teilnachbau" testen der überwiegend den Leistungsteil beinhaltet. Dreieck- und Stufengenerator kann man ja mit einem Funktionsgenerator oder einem Arduino bauen. Für die Versorgung der "Steuerelektronik" kann man ja gut einen kleinen 2 x 15V Trafo nutzen und für die zweimal 40 V sollte sich etwas finden lassen - zur Not tut es eine Regeltrenntrafo. Eine Anmerkung zur Erdleitung: In der Aufbauanleitung wird beschrieben, dass der Schutzleiter angeschlossen werden muss. Zitat: "...ist mit sämtlichen von außen berührbaren Metallteilen zu verbinden (Alu-Rückwand, Schrauben, Muttern, Kippschalterhälse usw.)" Das Gehäuse gilt nicht als schutzisoliert. Ich sehe da aber auch kein Problem, da die Kennlinienschreiberelektronik selbst komplett von der Netzerdung getrennt ist.
Hi, very well put together video. Tnx. My interest is pointing to the ELV KS 7000. Ive paid for the german manual. And already ordered all components except for transformer and the 2 relays. I will make my own PCB since my transformer is a lot bigger than the original design and could not find the exact same relays. Will try to get some similar spec. ones. However im having great throuble translating the manual in English since the google translation feature is absolute rubish and does not make any sense whatsoever. Ive tried a bunch of other online services that claim to translate from a German PDF file to English but none of them work as they claim and the translation is horible. Im really disappointed and do not know what else i could do to get it sorted.
The problem is probably that the PDF are scanned magazine-pages. So you first would have to run an OCR program over the pages so that you get a simple text file. Then you should compare the output of the OCR-text to the original if the OCR-software has really recognized the letters/words correctly. (The hard way would be to type in the text manually from the PDF-scan)
If that has worked you could easily put the text or text-file into google-translate and probably will get a better result.
If there are any parts/phrases that don´t come out right, you can email me and I will translate that parts/phrases for you.
But I can´t do that for the whole text. Perhaps you contact the other viewers in the comments who have downloaded the PDF from ELV. Perhaps one of them has translated them manually into English?
Hi Ovi, how did you succeed? I just have downloaded the schematics, and the description. I wonder, if you made a digital version for the print of the PCBs which you could share?
Your l.inks work:? I had to pretend I live in Stuttgart but I got them - thanks!
? is a typo, sorry
I havd tried to simulate this in MicroCap without luck. Happy to post the file if someone else would like to find my problem :0
having problems finding the download of the manual on that site is it still available
Try this link: de.elv.com/search?sSearch=kennlinienschreiber+KS+7000&ffFilter[attributes-elv-ExtendedSearch]=Journal
It consists of 2 parts which you have to buy both for download.
All of the modern "good deal" transistor testers and now curve tracers use a 9v battery. 12 at the highest. This limits everything. Who ever decides to deal with that will want a higher price. So far no one has that I know of.
I wish ELV still made all its old kits. Now all they sell a few microprocessor controlled power supply and function gen kits, and a gazillion home automation devices. 😢
That said, having spent the last day browsing the ELV magazine archive, I don’t like how all the 7000 series kits use front (and rear PCBs, if used) that are soldered at right angles to the main PCBs. That can’t be especially durable, compared to eg a ribbon cable or headers.
I agree in all points.
They build nice test- and measurement equipment in the 80s and 90s but not anymore.
In my repair video about the KMG7000 (Total Harmonic Distortion meter) I got cheaply from Ebay, half of the solder-junctions between the front panel PCB and the main-PCB were broken:
th-cam.com/video/ikW0_0MY-M8/w-d-xo.html
I´ve had trouble many times with these right-angle solder junctions and getting the two PCBs axactly at 90° angle and the right distance so that they really fit into the case without putting too much stress onto the solder-junctions.
My english is verry bad, so....
der elv link führt leider nur zur Homepage:(
eingeben des 700er führt zu Gehäuseteilen....
Da bin ich wohl zu blöd für ,,,,:(
Danke vielmals trotzdem:)
73.
Reiter "Journal" anklicken und nach unten scrollen. Ich habe den Link nochmal erneuert.
@@KainkaLabs Thank you:)
Thanks for the info about the ELV KS7000 but the ELV order site for the manual does not have a place for my USA address. Can you be of any help ? Thanks.
No sorry. Try to email them about that problem.
Seems like you have to be from the EU to order/pay at ELV.
If it doesn´t work, send me a PM.
Transistors are not Binary, they are, Bipolar
Did I accidentally say "binary" instead of "bipolar"?
Then you are the first one who recognized this , but you knew, what was meant :-)
bist du deutscher?
yepp
@@KainkaLabsdo you still have those files? Those are no longer available on the ELV website and I want to build the tracer? I can buy it from you.
@@emanuilsirakov2079 they are still available, just the URL changed. de.elv.com/elv-serie-7000-kennlinienschreiber-ks-7000-teil-12-204310 and de.elv.com/elv-serie-7000-kennlinienschreiber-ks-7000-teil-22-204319
Get the right tool for the right job. Many wannabe techs waste sellers time using these useless DCA75 to test hFE and want to return components. I graduated in elect Eng in late 70's and been doing electronics since which is over 40 years. Designed power amps and been engineering service supervisor for companies like ONKYO, but never seen such a hopeless tester that waste time and money. I bought one 55 version around 2012 and in less than a week I had to return it because it failed avery Vintage transistor where as the Tektronix 7CT1N showed then to be very good.
Well the ELV KS7000 is the "poor man´s" Tektronix curve tracer. So it´s not in the same group as the other ones. And you can build your own even today because it are all discrete components and some easily available ICs. The circuit diagram and description (in German) can be downloaded from ELV for a few Euros.
can this trace the curves from my gf hahaha
Sure.
First dope her, then extract the silicon.
On the highest voltage it would probably trace the curves of an elephant LoL...