"We wont touch a fox-body Mustang" why shops wont work on your car..
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Why the hell wont some speed shops work on a fox body Mustang?
WIN the SVE wheel and Nitto tire kit of your choice from LMR, every $5 spent = 1 entry! GRAB SOME MERCH AND WIN:
www.thefoxcast.com/shop
NO PURCHASE NECESSARY, VOID WHERE PROHIBITED, ENDS 6/14
Get our premium subscription!
WIN PROJECT “FROSTBITE”, A COYOTE SWAPPED CAPRI, or BUILT HCI 93 GT
-Over $1,000 in drawings every month
-See all the videos before they are released to the public
-Pop up drawings
SIGN UP NOW: : / foxcastmedia
Hot links:
lmr.com
www.buystifflers.com
www.jaxwax.com
www.hanlonmotorsports.com
www.dakotadigital.com
Stay connected:
Instagram: @foxcast_media
Facebook: foxcastmedia
Website: www.thefoxcast.com
Email: caleb@thefoxcast.com
linktr.ee/foxcastmedia - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Here is the list I have of some shops that do work on foxes: www.thefoxcast.com/fox-body-mustang-shop
This is my response to your "responce" to the question. Enjoyed the video. Keep up the good work!
Bless you for trying to get people to understand some really basic stuff here -- the truth will set you free (but first it will piss you off) LOL. Anyway, over the years I've seen people try and make sense of a Coyote swap from a financial perspective and when I'm talking to them they have these ideas that it's going to cost less than a new car at the end of the day... And I've seen some horrendous work on top of this by unexperienced shops to boot -- but you're not going to do something like that paying a shop and end up with something that costs less than a new car IMHO. It's all the basics plus the complexity of melding a computer into either a car that never had one or tying together two different PCMs to make things work with a say a new edge. If you're the kind of guy that wants to do it yourself it might not be super expensive if you're patient and willing to learn from others and take your time etc. But involve paid labor and the prices definitely go up and if you employ people that know what they're doing it's likely going to be a heck of a bill -- maybe one that's worth it if the car has some sentimental value etc -- but again, not everyone wants to hear this. They have ideas about what it should cost that are often unrealistic.
Possibly watching some consent like this will help level out some of these expectations.
My reply got deleted 😂
Oh boy , short story -Foxboys do your own restoration. Do your own upgrades/repairs. These cars are not complicated.
Exactly! I’m 32 and owned 3 in my teenage years. I used to know nearly every nut and bolt size on the whole car. Most is 10 through 15mm lol
exactly I'm doing mine and it generally so simple after figuring out how it is built
Personally I wouldn't let anyone else touch my cars. Most of the fun is breaking it and fixing it anyway. Anyone can buy a fast car, but buying a slow p.o.s. and making it fast yourself is a little harder.
If you want shit out of the box then pay up front….if you build something yourself you’ll be paying way less and having way more fun anyways
@@localenterprisebroadcastin5971 Having built and worked on MANY project/build cars over the years - it is always cheaper to buy a finished product than to build it yourself. The myth of "you can do it cheaper yourself" is from guys who look at the raw cost of parts and think their time/labor has no cost, it does, in many ways.
A clean, sorted example of what you want to build will always be less costly than doing the build. The cost is a larger initial, up-front ticket, so it _looks_ more expensive but it rarely is.
People have to realize you either have to have a boat-load of money to throw at it when you are paying someone else to work on it or learn it yourself.
There's a level of dellusion in these people. I have several boat-loads of money, but that means I also have the time to work on my own cars and these guys just don't so they try to short cut the process or the cost and these conversations ensue.
We wouldn't have to do it ourselves if the "mechanics" weren't giving the public the impression that they actually fix shxt.
The real mechanics wouldn't be getting shutdown for doing back yard work. They get that certification then screw all the repair work now they just pose in the way. Like doctors and lawyers. That become health advisors and case managers. Because the government insures a non competitive market so they don't even really have to work but they can still charge physicians rates to grease monkey at a comfortable pace.
Well i own 3 mustangs. A 03 cobra. 2015 mustang gt... and a 92 foxbody gt...I make good money but I work 12-16 hour days 5-7 days a week. So when I get free time I sometimes don't wanna work on my shit. I have a garage full of parts, built engine, transmission, 9in, suspension parts, pro charger F1 etc for it. I like learning and working on my own shit. I'm fortunate to have friends who are former mechanics to help me but they have their own shit to work on and families so their time is also hard to come by. This is why sometimes I have paid to have shut done just so it gets done so it doesn't sit unfinished for long periods. That said I love working on my own shit. If I've never done it I enjoy learning. My issue is time. Money and want to is not the issue
@@randymajor362 Trust me when I say this, the mechanic isn't the one making physician money to 'grease monkey' at a 'comfortable pace.' In fact the only ones making money are doing it at break neck pace, but even they aren't making physician money. And the reason we don't do backyard work? I spend 45 to 55 hours a week working on cars. No one commenting in this thread, not a single one of you, has enough money to spend to convince me to do it one hour more on the side where I don't have a lift, don't have but half my tools, have no air to run the tools that require shop air, have to work outside in the beating sun sweating like a streetwalker in a cathedral during Mass, just to be married to your ragged out old car so you're calling me every time it breaks saying, "You were the last one to work on it, this is your fault." Nah, you can bring it to the shop during business hours and have the writer make a ticket, then get in line behind everyone else. Or you can learn to be your own 'grease monkey.' Maybe one day you'll figure out how insulting that is to a skilled technician.
If you're going to drive a vehicle built before 1996 you need to become your mechanic
I have four late 90's GM trucks. I have GM shop manuals for them, it's a must have.
yup
Yeah my car is a 96. Finding parts is a struggle.
@minibikemafia I am not saying older vehicles are hard to work on. They are much easier, that is why I have so many. Having shop manuals makes it even easier.
@@rodshop5897 Finding parts for my late 90s OBS trucks is easy. Some items require a trip to a junk yard. That is getting a little harder. Lots of people are picking them clean.
I was told by a shop and I quote, “We can’t work on your car due to the car being older than all of my techs on the shop floor.”
The younger techs wouldn't know what to do with it. They kinda did you a favor there. Old knowledgeable techs are hard to find, because if they can, they get out.
Well, don't know how I stumbled across this since I'm a Vette guy, but this applies to ANY older car, and I can tell you an older Vette is the ultimate "while you're in there..." machine.
As the inherited owner of a C2, I can personally attest to this.
Definitely true! In the process of replacing a failed water pump on a 1991 ZR1. The original hoses are failing as well. The customer is happy that my shop is the only one in the area that will work on his car.
Ha! Same here, got a 96 vette and man it def applies to all older cars. Wanted to murder my corvette when it was time to remove the cat on that thing. Who the heck designed the bolt positions on that exhaust line...
I'll keep my 68 charger.
No, the ultimate is the Ford GT. Everything else fails in comparison
This is basically why ive never taken my old cars to shops.
The upside is I KNOW my car.
I do all my own work. I’m no mechanic at all but Foxbodys are easy to work on compared to newer cars. I spent about 30k in the past 2 years at LMR. My fox is basically brand new. No leaks, no problems. I honestly don’t trust other people working on my cars plus you would spend more money on labor than parts.
You said it. Labor is so nuts its nit worth having a old car that needs repairs if a shop has to do it.
30k? What did you buy? Everything?
@JMac85X hopefully that wasnt just to make it stock 😊 . Stuff really adds up though. Built motor 15k easy, trans redo 3 to 6 easy, complete performance suspension 6k plus easy, Bkk 5k easy, ecu complete kit with harness 3.5k easy, rins tires , rear end, boost.. 30 to 50 easy. Its all very EASY, lol. U pay one way or other.
I'm still a carb guy so I'm a dinosaur. I'll stay with the older cars as long as I can. Yes, I have a 2001 gt , and I do 90% of my own work. I think people's money will start to dry up for these crazy rebuild/tune jobs.
Long story short is you have a better chance of getting a gal with a fox body into a Corolla than Rosy O'Donnell into a Mustang II suck sessor.😂
My 84 RS Capri has been in my family since my Dad bought it NEW. I know EVERYTHING that has been done to this car. Most people can't say the same and this is where things get complicated. EVERY performance part you put on your Foxbody is going to weaken the rest of the parts it is attached too, if they are old and factory parts and this is cumulative, there's NO way around that. The more you add the worse it gets. These cars were designed to support no more than 225 flywheel horsepower, NOT 400+. I did almost all the work to my Foxbody to save money and also because a lot of mechanics don't even want to risk the liability of working on these cars because they are so old. My car is 40 years old this year! This is why all the shops that work on classic cars charge so much. It's to offset the liability of potential lawsuits. This video makes a ton of valid points and most people looking to buy a Foxbody don't take these things into consideration when they are shopping for one of these cars. Your drivetrain is only as good as its weakest part. There's an old Muscle car saying, FAST, Cheap and Good, PICK 2! For those that need an explanation, if it's cheap and good, it ain't gonna be FAST, if it's FAST and GOOD, it ain't gonna be cheap and if it's FAST and Cheap, it ain't gonna be GOOD! 😁👍
Lawsuits are pretty rare. Law suits are expensive. People that don't have money to properly repair their cars aren't going to be able to afford a law suit. Shops that are willing to deal with older cars charge that because fewer and fewer shops do, so they can command a higher price due to demand. Simple supply & demand economics at it's finest.
I spent 30 years in the auto repair industry. I 100% understand why a shop is selective about which cars (and which customers) it will take in. After some time you see patterns emerge. You learn to avoid problematic scenarios. Hobby cars and hobby car owners tend to be a problem.
We will do what ever you got the $ money for ! Also its a customer and car inspection before we will take any customer or car in for work!
100%... Too much eBay universal junk, wire nut splices, bolts siliconed into fuel return lines, multiple fuel pumps, mystery parts from other cars with no knowledge or history... You lose your ass on project cars with more than half of customers that have them.
Goes both ways, mechanics are typically good at working on current year Camrys, and terrible at diagnosing and working on sports cars.
The customer is 90% the problem
If you legally have to be certified and licensed to run a shop you shouldn't be able to turn a customer away. You, and I do mean YOU the mechanic, create a situation where people cannot get their cars fixed anywhere when they otherwise might have been able to do so. It's despicable.
The guy that tuned my car past away recently and he was the only one around here that tuned foxes. RIP Cali Nate
Start out …🤔and continue with the simple stuff … change your own oil / fluids / lubricate everything yourself ( fluid film all cables ) . Like others say: know the car! ( zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) . Maintain the paint / inside …
Instead of tv or looking at ur phone. Got kids ? Include em as soon as they can hold a hose( plenty of laughs) . I got three adult girls that maintained my shortbeds they drove in H/S n college they actually were on top of when to rotate the tires.. it was a three hour job ( with breaks lol) wash n wax insides ) ( even with steelies) . Worked with me on bed removal , changing alternators, batteries, starters… ect. Knew / know how to use tools. One changed the power window motor while I watched ( got to love utube that painters tape holding the window).
Two times last few years I had an oil change done ( by the dealership ) . They were the first ‘free’ ones …. Yeah I know u get what u pay for… but jeeze u think at the dealership they won’t screw up a simple oil change!!! Wrong.
First in 2017 didn’t screw filter tight enough ( thankfully I brought it straight home n saw puddle on floor of garage ,, only over quart low. Half twist to tighten filter.
Second time new 2023 sierra .. wrong oil.. they thought it was the 2017 tahoe ( that’s how they wrote it up) shure didn’t look the same as last vehicle I brought in 6 years b/4… missed by service writer n mechanic ( plus he took the oil cap off and it said which oil on it) .. been changing my own oil for 40 years since 16 yr old…. Not as much fun rollin around on concrete floors as it use to be though.
@@Jimthechevywheelmanit sounds like you don't know a damn thing about tuning fox body fuel injection 😂
Valuable wisdom.
I wanted to buy a mint SN95 . Talked with a Mustang only mechanic and he told me he would not work on it for the exact same reasons you are giving. When someone says they don't want my money, I pay attention.
A very successful local shop once told me they're very limited on repairs they would do. They only did a few different repairs but they were very good at what they did. They stayed busy.
So true. Every upgrade or repair I’ve done to my foxbody was more than I expected due to miscellaneous other repairs.
You could say this about any 31+ year old car
My thoughts exactly. Upgrading an old car causes a domino effect of "needs" and "shoulds" and while it's sad to say, restoration of ANY car is an expensive proposition.
Back in 2021, I took a road trip to bring home a 1988 Ford Bronco II, purchased over 2,000 miles from home. Flew there; drove it back.
(Crazy, I know. Done for the thrill.)
When I ran into some issues that I couldn't take care of in a hotel parking lot with the December wind whipping me into -10°F, I found out that most of the shops nearby were plenty busy without working on something over 30 years old. Almost everyone I spoke to said, "An '88?! No, we don't work on anything that old."
I think one shop even refused it on the grounds that it was pre-OBD-II.
alot of shops' techs don't know how to work on older vehicles now too.
Yup
💯 that’s why people just need to work on their own stuff because I know first hand how tough it is to get a shop to work on your stuff and if they do work on it it’s an arm and a leg just to get it done
Short answer, shops want quick easy money and most "mechanics" are glorified parts changers. Good shops with competent TECHNICIANS are out there.
Those competent technicians don't want to lose money working on your project car.
That’s the truth
I’ve been with the same shop for over 30 years.
When I first started going to him it was the owner and a helper or 2.
He did an excellent job on all the cars I’ve taken him over the years.
Now he has 2 shops and bunch of guys who don’t know what there doing.
I took my Daughters Buick there and he took 3 months to get it back to me and it feels 60% fixed.
And when I go to the shop, it seems he’s spending most of his time telling his mechanics what they need to do.
Like someone said, PARTS CHANGERS .
The flat rate life is throwing a part at it and shipping it. Gotta make those hours 😅
@@arnoldss383 when you have to fix it for free if you're wrong it doesn't pay to work that way
@JMKady76 it doesn't and it shouldn't but unfortunately not all shops are like that. Alot of places now teach techs that the more you know the less you earn.
My trusted mechanic, Tanguay, once summed it up for me. Your putting a brand new, strong part onto a car with old, worn parts, and the new part now wears out the old parts even faster if it doesn't just break them from the git go.
yup, he said it at 2:30.
my take: more power from the engine = reduced transmission life no matter how new it is
At this point it is like taking any vintage car to a auto repair shop. Typically, no standard shops' business model works well with old cars. Fox body owners are pretty much limited to "do it yourself", or specialty "vintage" shops. (Think expensive)
thats what people dont get. foxbody are long just "bolt on" cars unless you bought one from a grandpa and it sat. but then if it sat, that's another set of issues.
you really have to go to specialty shops that restore cars, not just bolt on stuff. but its gonna cost money.
Yall keep saying 27 28 29 year old car....uuuhhh I hate to tell you but the newest foxbody you can buy is 31 years old. Lol
You gotta cut us guys over 40 a little slack, when someone says "10 years ago" our minds think that was 1998.😆
@@dustingermain7037 yep, I just turned 50. It sucks. Lol
Lol! Yeah, it feels like riding a bike down a hill with no brakes!😂
You take that lie back! Foxbodies are only like 15 years old!
I was doing math when he said that too. Lol 😅
Getting involved with an old car has to be a labor of love because financially it's just stupid. (Classic BMW/Honda guy here) You HAVE to do the work yourself (or you'll have an E34 when you paid for a new Porsche) and your time is worth pennies/hour. But the results sure are gratifying.
My dealers service advisor actually discouraged me from upgrading the front brakes on my 2003 Mustang GT to the equivalent mustang SVT cobra brake package when it finally came due for break work. Simply put he told me you don’t drive this car enough to make the money you are going to pay worth it. Just use the stock brakes, Mr. X and so I did.
I agree 100% with those shop owners, it really is like jumping down the proverbial rabbit hole; you don't know where it will end. And then you have the customers in those situations thinking that the shop is trying to rip them off by adding a bunch of extra stuff; no dude, it's all worn-out garbage
Good stuff. Surprised its not just Fox Mustangs and not any old car. All those reasons are why I do not work on other peoples cars
When I had a new crate engine put in, already had the suspension replaced and gave the shop all new in under the hood parts too. Ripped and replaced the heating and cooling, too. Gave them all new connectors and pigtails in case any of the 30 year old parts broke or disintegrated. Yeah, I missed a few things, but they didn’t have to scramble for parts. Not cheap, but it was done right.
I had to do that on my LS1 into a truck project lemme just say it was all in the prep stuff
That's the only way to do it, you have to at least understand older cars before getting into the hobby
I couldn't even get an alignment done! One place didn't have a clue how to work with caster/camber plates ( a BIG NAME tire place) and another one doesn't work on cars "that old" (even though everything on it is new!). I give them a one-finger salute when I drive by now. I ended up doing my own aligmment with strings, a level, and a digital protractor and it tracks perfectly striaght.
Yup. Once I figured it out, I’ve done all my own alignments, and I do nice things like make sure the wheel is centered.
Translation: if you have a Foxbody you’re looking at a “frame off” restoration. I grew up with F-body Pontiacs, still own them and have made that life transition from basic maintenance to full overhaul. Acceptance is the first step.
They dont have a frame and if the unibody is solid and rust free, a mechanical restoration and freshening of the interior and seats should be plenty.
@@hendo337 That’s why the term “frame off” is in quotes as it refers to how we used to (and still do) restoration of pre-unibody cars.
I loved my 1992 Firebird Formula 350. You can't find affordable cars like that nowadays.
What is a Pontiac?
For me as a shop owner,. It's all about communication with the customer. I won't put an engine in with bad mounts that's going to let the fan hit the shroud. Some shops can be too nice and eager upfront trying to get the job that they over promise and get themselves in a bad spot. talk to the customer feel them out, and go from there. Usually in these situations if they start asking about money to much it can indicate I need to avoid them. I'm not going half ass someone's car and I'm also not going to lose money, buying parts out of my pocket for a customers car. I'd never turn a whole group of cars away. Foxbody mustangs are one of the best and easiest cars to work on. You just have to be on the same page with your customer. I don't want someone to ever leave feeling ripped off and I want to pay the bills at the end of the month as well. I love mustangs.
I don't think it's a "We don't work on Fox Body mustangs" as much as it is, "We don't work on 30 year old project cars. Or project cars in general."
Finding a shop to do a cat replacement on a 1993 F-150 with a rusted air injection tube is surprisingly difficult. It’s not an easy “at-home” repair either.
It USED to be till the EPA got rid of all the parts to do it on Ebay.
Good Explanation Caleb. Most Newbies need to know this first before buying any performance car let alone a Fox. Never get mad at your mechanic especially if you don't have the knowledge to fix even the basic things yourself, they have their reasons. Most shops Are Honest they rely on repeat business also.
Sounds more like its some shops dont want to deal with certain customers vs the car itself of which I can understand as some folks arent as easy to work with as others
yah if its open checkbook, its no problem.
An informed customer is one you can't take advantage of
@@rwdplz1 An informed customer is also easiest to work with, since they'll already understand they're driving a 30 year old ragged out beater that needs a full restoration because it's on it's 8th owner and the last 5 didn't care about the car. At all.
It isn't the cars it's unreasonable people. I have a buddy that did a lot of mustang/Foxbody side work and half the people he ended up blocking their numbers. People are a PITA these days.
It's not just Fox body people - it's PEOPLE in general. I have a LOT of customers I fired.
@CaptainSeamus profesionalism, too. Lots of diyers with a license to work on peoples houses.
And what your friend ran into is precisely why I never do side work.
I used to work at a Benz dealer and the old cars would come in and the customers would want stuff fixed but not want to pay diagnostic fees and then with the cars being that old you start taking stuff apart and then it breaks as you take some stuff apart, some of said parts aren't available and then it snowballs from there. We had a few of the clients that were long term customers and would spend money if needed but they were the only ones allowed to continue. Management stopped all of the old cars from coming in except the customers that had a good history with the dealer. Most of the old cars have NOT been well maintained hence the cutoff point. It's just less bullshit to deal with at the end of the day for everyone.
No mechanics allowed is all I'm hearing. Because being a mechanic means work and if just pretending gets you paid. Let the customer loose their tranny on the way home on the highway. They should have fixed it themselves right?
@@randymajor362I don't think you know how mechanical things work, do you?
@@3644Darrell He certainly doesn't know how being a mechanic works, I can tell you that.
I really think the problem is ignorance on our parts as foxbody owners. Anytime you are starting a build, you have to take in the big picture and create a plan based on what you want to achieve with your build. The first step to any good plan is understanding where you are starting from, is your car in good working order and in reliable state. Take care of that before you start to worry about any performance mods. Then when doing the performance mods, understand all the underlying or supporting mods that are necessary for your build. Understand how they work together to reach your goal. Also accept the fact things are going to be found along the way you did expect especially when getting in the engine, unless you have xray vision, you are going to have suprises. Just make a good plan and alot for it. Don't be like one of my friends from high school who had a worn old car with a worn out old 305 sbc in it. He went to the parts store and bought the biggest carb and cam he could find to stick on it, but he left everything else stock including the heads, intake, and exhaust. He could never understand why it ran like shit and always broke down.
This is the correct answer!
You probably shouldn’t own a fox if you can’t do the work yourself. At this point, anything you touch on them turns to dust.
For anyone in central FL, LaMotta performance in longwood tunes foxes up to i believe current mustangs if i recall correctly, Jake is the guy to talk to there, and i personally do 79-04 repair, swaps and upgrades, i work out of a shop in winter garden, the owner parts out and sells 79-04 parts and sometimes complete cars. But your totally correct on the host of stuff wrong on not just these cars but im seeing it in the SNs thru the new edges. Current customer i did a 4v swap in his 01, had bad rear upper control arm bushings, upper axle bushings, front sway bar mount bushings, rear pass axle seal, siezed rear pass caliper slide bolts, a bad hydro and master too. Not many of these cars were respected or treated well.
We had a customer that wanted a Holley X and tune on his turbo car. Easy job. If I had seen the car before it arrived, I never would have taken the job. It was supposed to be running and driving, all buttoned up. When it arrived, it was clear that it had been sitting under a tree for YEARS. Tires didn't hold air, nothing worked on the car. Honestly, I wouldn't even consider this car as a staring point for a build. The motor was not complete. The cylinders were full of antifreeze becaust the lower intake wasn't installed correctly. I installed the Holley and buttoned up the motor so it could at least have a shot of running. The engine had the wrong flywheel. The starter failed after a day or so. The suspension has never been touched. Completely stock. The "new" Aeromotive fuel pump didn't work. After about 6 days of labor, the motor was running pretty good. The turbine wheel exploded on the dyno. Now the car has been sitting for months waiting on a new turbo. A two day job. An easy job. A money making job. Not this time. My biggest concern is that this car will be flat out unsafe when it leaves the shop without complete suspension upgrades front and rear and subframe connectors.
Well... sounds like you shoulda' said NO once you saw the car !!!!
Yeah. We got what you saying here, If they can't plug in a scanner to tell them which components to replace, they cannot fix it, and if it's a stick they cannot move it off the lot.
yeah and car owners are cheap asses and dont want to spend money when its worn the hell out and a piece of shit, you forgot that part..
And they cannot diagnose that a 200,000 + mile car needs a tuneup just by listening to the engine misfire and vibrate when it starts (and perhaps clean/replace the fuel injectors - although that is more rare today than in the 1980's and 1990's).
Not to mention all kinds of other car noises that indicates issues.
In the case above (my wife's car) I took it to an independent shop where the mechanic started the car and muttered to himself - It needs a tuneup and I understand why the customer (myself) requested new plugs - possibly new coil packs, and any other work (including potential fuel injector work) as needed. 2 coil packs were bad and the plugs were obviously worn. No fuel injector work was needed.
Most of what he talked about had nothing to do with engine work. A scanner is pretty useless on 90% of what can be wrong with your car.
@@--_DJ_-- Agreed. You need to get it up on the racks, inspect underneath, inspect the brakes, move things, and test drive it.
Folks remember any old vehicle is a jigsaw puzzle for every upgrade add on there's something else that it will effect on stock parts.
Any shop worth its salt would EXPLAIN to the customer that many system related parts and labor costs are going to apply.
A service advisor could sit down and have a ten or twenty minute phone conversation with you about the who what when where how and why, or he can politely tell you, "I'm sorry, we don't work on vehicles that old." And then go write up something in an age range they *do* service. If you were paid on commission, meaning you make absolutely nothing while on the phone, and another writer will be getting tickets that pay while you're talking to someone that is not making you money, which one would you do?
When I had my 85 foxbody, I only had one shop that would touch it, and that was mostly because I had a good relationship with them, and they know my vehicles were well maintained. I only ever really brought them work that I wasn’t able to do myself, like setting up a new rear in a 1967 c20 with a coil suspension. It actually brought them a lot of custom side work that they made a killing on.
I have a 1987 Dodge Dakota....it's a unicorn...only year with a 2bbl Carb. It's a rare shop that will want to work on it...and usually it's one with more seasoned mechanics. If they can't find an OBDII port to plug into, they won't touch it. Same goes for body work....a cosmetic restoration results in either a go-away high price, or refusal "we only do collision work." So I spend my time researching and building confidence in doing my own repairs.
I understand 100%. I learned how to work on cars because of my FoxBody and lord knows I’ve had my headaches
I'm glad to hear you lay the ship bare. This applies equally to any older car and why the last time i had an old Honda i started by rebuilding/restoring the full suspension, steering and brakes do to their condition. Did most of the work myself.
Same principle with a Gen 1 or 2 SHO. I, fortunately, know a mechanic who WILL work on my obsolete mid 90s shitbox...and I am very grateful. But, I have had him rebuild my suspension on my 98 Mustang GT and had him thoroughly inspect and replace many suspension components on the SHO. Good, reliable, and honest mechanic. And, yes, he does Fox Bodies too.
Ex-parts guy here i did it for many many years and yes to a certain extent this is true. However ive seen one shop try and charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars for parts on top of a simple alignment. Then this customer takes it to the next shop and finds nothing wrong with the parts and gets the simple alignment job without replacing a single part. Lots of fockery going on out there guys learn to do your own repairs then find an honest alignment/tuner shop.
Some guys will put anything on the rack and take your money. Some have ethics and won't align a worn out suspension. Just because a control arm isn't about to fall off doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with it.
@@--_DJ_-- Yep. And some people just plain suck at being a technician. Someone brought their car into our shop for a state inspection. The fella next to me was the one that got it. He found the power steering rack was leaking, and told them it would need the rack replaced to pass - I saw the leak, it was a legitimate and correct diagnosis. Customer says to reject it. Takes it to another shop for a second opinion. They put an inner tie rod boot on it, and pass it. The inner tie rod boot isn't there to contain power steering fluid, it's there to contain grease around the inner tie rod and keep dust out. Customer call back claiming we were trying to rip him off. No, but the other shop who gave him a slipshod repair that didn't fix anything definitely did.
@@cavalieroutdoors6036 he would know the truth soon enough when the new boot fills up. They probably just drained his old one and cleaned it on the outside and charged him for a boot. No drip while the inspection is done is technically a pass. Hack job though, I do inspections and wouldn't do that even for myself.
Makes total sense, old cars need lots of love specially that most have been hot rods at some point in life.
This wheel and tire package your speaking of would be crazy on this 91 build. 5 years later it's ready to hit the floor on wheels and tires and ready for this ,351w
I think it boils down to..if you need a shop...you can't have a Foxbody...other wise just leave it at the shop 24/7 and pick it up when you want to take it for a cruise ...but make sure to drop it back off before closing...these cars are a fucking nightmare ..but that's why you can't cruise with out a half dozen thumbs ups ...people yelling out there windows at red lights asking what year it is and trying to tell you about the 89 they had as the light turns green...and that's why everyone wants one ...there's nothing like one ..but they require an in home mechanic...and all these insta gram Garry's that had some shop build them a 100k fox ..they couldn't and would drive that shit on the reg if you paid them. Don't get me wrong I'm winging it myself but I've owned a few and learned 25 years ago not to roll up to any shop unless you know them personally or have close friends that do and have had their fox worked on there
Great video Brother! Very legit reasons. Totally understandable. A person definitely should count the cost before purchasing a Foxbody and really any classic car.
Spot on! I only work on the old mustangs at my shop and it's definitely not an easy gig. You have to be well versed in dealing with them and their customers or it can easily kick your ass. It's what I love and it's what I know the best so its what I do. The fact that that nobody wants to work on them is great for my business though 😁
I built my 88 in my carport, 331 stroker worst part was waiting on 2 different machine shops, 1 alone is frustrating but 1 did my Block 30 over the other balanced my crank, trick flow top end 170 heads stage 1 cam systemax upper and lower bbk longtubes borla exhaust bbk 75mm throttle body pro -m 75 mm MAF Excell 24lb injectors I'm super happy with performance but it's still untuned
Bottom line, shops don't want to deal with cheap asses.
Accurate.
I would tell my cheap customers to go down to the dollar store for duct tape. I don't build junk.
I really don't understand why a shop has to make a $1000 a Day Out of a Customer.
@@jasonnorthcutt3771 because it costs a lot of money to stay in business
@JMKady76 It don't cost 365000 a year for 1 bay. Gonna have to call b s on that.
I've done all my own upgrades it's the only way to learn. You learn something new everyday ..
I’ve owned a lot of classic cars but I can honestly say owning a foxbody has the been worst experience when it comes to finding an experienced shop to work on it. I agree with most of what you said but in my case living here in Miami it’s been so difficult to find a mechanic specifically for my foxbody because there either booked for months on end or they just don’t want to deal with the headache of touching my car
Good to know. And I see these foxbodys are easy to work on at home if you’re handy 😁😎✌️
Working on your own car is part of the enjoyment of owning it, why would I want to miss out on that? I love it when something breaks 😊
My 65 mustang had a bad vibration at 55 to 60 mph. I6 200 with C4 and special 3.50 gears.
Nobody could figure out what it was. I had no money so just did not drive at that region of mph.
Ok :
2 ford dealers said the 7 main bearings were bad
2 transmission shops said it was the torque converter
Another expert shop said it was the rear end
So for 6 months i did not drive in that 55 to 60 region
So took the 65 mustang to a gm dealer and they said they did not work on them.
One slow day i came back to the gm dealer and the total repair with parts and labor was 22 bucks.
That was in 1978. The transmission mount rubber looked good but inside was goo. So a new Napa mount was like 8 or 9 bucks.
So all the experts already wanted to rebuild the engine or transmission and got it all wrong.
I think the GM found it since just poked around and had it on a lift.
The transmission mount would go metal to metal or something at the 50 to 55 region and sound like end of the car!
Cannot imagine today what would happen with that same issue and way less mechanics.
Check out Rodeheaver's hotrod shop, it's in Uniontown, PA (near Pittsburgh) he is a mustang guy, but he will tune/build whatever you bring him and slap inspection sticker on it if you're a PA resident, he charges $150 per hour but you get what you pay for folks. He will build your mustang from ground up and tune it on a mustang dyno. Heads up just be respectful the guy is Christian and all around good guy, a family man, down to earth and practical. Also, for weary minds he is a professional and he isn't into abusing customer cars, thus said your ride is safe at his shop. He will build and tune 94-95 cars and we all know they have a stigma on them by most for being pain to get right, but they're just another day at office for his shop.
Good video. As a moderate machanic I find brakes, tune ups, oil and fluid flushes, alternators, any belts, water pumps the basics are in my wheelhouse. To the point and age that rear ends, serious motor work , suspension nope nit dealing with but will find reputable fair mechanics. They are out there just gotta look.
All this applies to 90's JDM cars too.
You guys in the States should be EXTREMELY vary of any shop claiming to be Experts in 30 year old Imports
They havent had the Experience with them like us Aussies and Kiwis have. Im talking mainly about Skylines but still applies across the board.
Im a Honda guy, have a Turbo EG Sedan, CRX and Odyssey and I do ALL my work on the Civic and CRX but have someone else do the Odyssey as its a work van
90's cars are relatively simple to work on and thanks to the internet, anything you want to know how to do has already been done and there'll be a TH-cam Video or an old Forum post showing exactly how to do it.
Shops are absolutely correct in saying these things.
Do it yourself or at least try to learn as you go is really the best way forward for everyone
Great video! Just subbed, Big Love from Australia!
Just do the work yourself. That way you learn a thing or two along the way and when something breaks you have a good idea of what your dealing with and where the sound is coming from because you have disassembled it already
i have a 1989 foxbody,i have had it for 15 years its my sunday car,me and my wife love the car,the only thing i did with it was install short headers,every thing else is stock,and i am very happy,in the east coast you find foxbody mechanics,but not the south.
My 90 LX Resto started with Dropping tank ..complete fuel rail, all injectors. ,entire Rack n Pinion powersteering system. Front n rear suspension. Among all kinds of little things. Car sat 8 yrs in a bamboo forest. Started first crank.
I ran into this same crap with body shops. No one in town wanted to touch my 68 Lemans (GTO clone) I had like 15 years ago. It had rust in the lower front fender and I had a replacement panel. Not one shop would touch it. One told me straight out you wont find anyone but a specialty shop, because we only work on newer stuff. AKA They will not touch rust. I always thought that was lame, but i'm sure all the money is in replacing panels now.
The time and effort is 1/10th of what they make overcharging insurance companies to replace panels they can buy brand new and half-ass into place.
Body shops work for the insurance companies now.
I couldn’t imagine anybody but me working on any of my fox bodies!!! Just cant !!!
The only thing I take my fox into my favorite shop is for work I simply don't have the tools to do the job myself. A/C work is about it, I don't have the tools to evacuate and refill the system. I did take the block in to have it bored .030 over, but beyond stuff like that it's my job to keep my car nice and proper.
@@1991pony i cant do exhaust and im hit miss on the air conditioning.. i build my own trannys motors rearends just whatever i need done ill do .. but its fun to me so i dont mind putting in the hours and money ..
@@1991pony I hate doing tires, and will take those to a shop. But that's about it.
@@ThaumazzarI forgot about tires, yeah, that job sucks and I don't have a tire machine.
I know what you mean. I don't trust anybody to work on my baby either.
What you are saying is 1000% true and not limited to just Fox Bodies. I run into the same exact issue with Hondas and quit working on people's cars in favor of just selling parts. When you work on someone's worn out car, and that new thing you installed for the customer breaks, you are the one who unfairly gets blamed for it all.
I sent my grandnational for a look over in 2019. After a engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, bigger turbo, new exhaust, scan master G, new brake lines, fuel lines, hell everything was touched and it ran my bill up to 20k.
That was the first car I ever wanted as a kid. I walked by one everyday on my way to school. Looked so mean just sitting there.
Every on these cars are bad?! BULLSHIT majority of these cars are in garages with covers on them. It’s because millennials only know how to use a scanner and hit a button.
Imagine some of these ppls trying to work on a early 70’s Chevy and having to figure out points😂
Millennials? Try gen Z. Most of us 90s kids still know how to turn wrenches. We were the first generation imho who could turn wrenches and easily understood efi
Sorry bud it’s just like for everything else,one bad apple ruins it for everyone
@@rayman1230 the 90's were wild for these things. Especially in rural ohio. The hotrod guys all had giant carbs on top of their engine. They acted like I was some sort of rocket scientist smoking their big block with that fancy fuel injection 💉 🤣 😂
Shut up boomer
@@aaadamt964 😂 right. Lmao who you talking to about Ohio?! Summit Portage Trumbull Mahoning county are my stomping grounds! Grew up 15 mins from Summit Racing.
I added a high flow water pump and one by one the gaskets having anything to do with containing the coolant leaked or blew out. Took me a week to fix them. It can be a cascade of failures. My gaskets are all new now.
This is 100% true. So long as you have a good shop and the customer understands that the bill may be double due to other repairs it will be ok.
If there's any advice that I could give someone who's new to working on cars, not mechanical minded, young and afraid, old afraid, or whatever the excuse may! Go to harbor freight buy you some cheap tools, and learn how to fix this stuff yourself. These cars are not very complicated but can be challenging if you have no experience. You don't need snap on tools to swap out the clutch or install a cam or a set of heads. You just need functional tools. You don't need to be an expert just be willing to learn. I was poor growing up and had to learn how to fix my own cars. I was also very fortunate that my grandfather was a master old school mechanic. And my older brother is a master technician. But anyway, good video Caleb on explaining some of this stuff.
Full circle. When I owed my 86gt new. No one knew about the fuel injection&there was no aftermarket yet for it. Mechanics said ya should have bought an 85 with a carb. Sorry, haha.
Man, that's wild to think about. When I first started it was slightly after the transition to OBD II, but we still saw a lot of first gen EFI cars. And now with cars being hybrids and EVs, I'm ready to tap out like those old carburetor guys were when I got into the business. But the reason is a little different...I understand how to work on them. I'm not interested in getting shocked & taking the forever nap so someone's overpriced RC car can keep rolling.
You Fox guys have it better than some of "Cool Ford' guys and that is parts availability.
I have been in awe of the Lincoln Mark VIII since its delivery in 1993. I have owned a 1995, and currently have a 1993 and a 1998 both registered and tagged. Parts are becoming rarer by the day and eventually in the very near future parts, key parts, will be obsolete. That is the price of owning one, along with issues you discussed regarding the shops.
Due to age and health issues I can no longer do much of the work on my cars as I used to do.
While I no longer own a Mustang (I bought one used in college in the 1980's and someone sliding into it when it was parked ended its life). I do drive older cars and they all suffer from the same general issues.
But the local repair shop loves me because when I bring in one of my cars for something I tell them up front what has been replaced and when if it could impact the repair - and that I expect that when they take things apart that they will likely need to replace X, Y and Z which will cost more and take more time.
Your radiator example is a classic. I would never just replace and old leaking radiator. I would assume all hoses and perhaps the water pump and thermostat needed changing (depending on when I changed them last) - and I would ask them to test/inspect the heating coil and would not be upset if it needed replacing. That's just how old cars are. The shops I use love working with and for me as they know that I understand and that I used to do much of the work on the cars myself and know how to do things. Also, I don't quibble over cost and always specify high quality parts when there are options.
I tune professionally (500 cars/year). The platform i specialize in is now 11 years old, and I'd say 2/3 of the cars that come across my desk have mechanical problems that require (sometimes extensive) troubleshooting before they can be tuned. Because they're getting cheaper, the guys modding them are more likely to be on a budget, buying cheap parts, delaying maintenance, etc. I got a car the other day with a built motor and a huge turbo, but a stock trans. I can usually keep these alive for awhile if i taper the boost up and control the TQ, which i did, but it broke the trans on the dyno...turns out it had 160k miles on it, and most of those were hard miles. I'm getting out of it, the time per car due to the troubleshooting no longer makes sense. If the average age though the door gets much older than 5 years, it doesn't take long before the time per car doubles.
I spent 8 yrs working on/off on my 1990 240sx that had idling issues and all sorts of other issues due to age and usage. Eventually got everything working and started drifting it. But my last event, i slammed the 240sx against a wall; now begin my journey to repair it and retire it from drifting. It will jus restore it and casually drive it to non-sideshow car meets.
This is old cars in general. Great vid, and I'm a Chevy guy.
I finally met a guy who gets me about a week ago. I pulled in to park at Wallyworld to grab some pop & groceries. There's a guy sitting in a car next to me talking to his GF with the door open. He was in an end-model Dodge Neon that looked like he'd put every single JC Whitney Catalog (you old-school guys know what I'm talking about) worthless bolt-on part for a Neon that they stock. What caught my attention right away was his bumper sticker - "My car is neither Fast nor Furious. It is Loud, Obnoxious, and Annoying." Then I noticed his upper windshield logo said "TURDBURNER." I couldn't help but introduce myself to him & compliment him on his decals. We had some good laughs & talked about cars for a little bit. All in all, pretty cool guy with a great sense of humor.
The issue is exactly what you said, the shops don't want to deal with your 30 year old shit box and if you called them saying you wanted and where willing to pay for a full overhaul to the car to get it ready for or alongside upgrades they would likely be much more willing to work on it. The issue with working on 30 year old cars is getting the "you did (blank) and now my car cranks and won't start this is your fault".
"You replaced my power steering pump and now my car has a leaking break line, it's all your fault!" Thanks, but no - I'll pass on that headache. Seen it enough.
Thank you for this information.
I have had my 1987 convertible since new but it has gotten less than 600 miles/ year for the last 25 years ( mostly driven minivans hauling kids etc..).
Can you recommend a forum for discussion I have some questions trying to decide what to do.
I may retire to the West Coast of Canada and thinking of taking my car there.
Would it be reliable enough to cross Canada? What would I look at?
My 87gt has a tubular k-member, tubular rear suspension, all new springs, ball joints, tie rod ends, driveshaft safety loop, subframe connectors, I built the t-5 myself, put in a carbureted 351w, all roller, bigger cam, light port work, pulleys, aluminum 3 core radiator, and more, did it all myself, I grew up with these cars and I know every inch of the car, so there's no need to go somewhere to have it worked on
I dont get how people who have older cars cant think about that. The shops see the responsibility and dont want to be held reliable for someone being negligent due to things not be kept up.
Hey Caleb! Question for you! Im trying to get into youtube myself and make a channel based around restoring my own foxbody. What do you use to make your thumbnails and how do you ensure you reach the correct audience?
I am working on a 1988 5.0 notch back fox body. 87k og miles on it. black paint, just clean, but the suspension not the best. so I am having it all replaced. I just want to drive it. i would never built up an old car like a fox body either. great video.
Honestly we do work on older vehicles but it’s hard to give estimates that are exact because of the amount of work it takes to work on 35 year old vehicles. Everything around the problem area is brittle and does break sometimes and eats into our profits. I overestimate 100% because the worst you can say is no and when it comes out cheaper the customer is happy.
I had a mechanic that did that for all repairs new or old. The estimate was for the absolute worst case. At first he lost some business but after awhile word of mouth worked in his favor. Nobody ever gets pissed and band mouths you when you come in under the estimate and people started thinking he was actually saving them money or giving them a deal
@@leadpilled5567 I agree. It helped me weed out the people I really didn’t want as customers. I can afford to pick and choose.
as a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP enthusiest, this is the same set of concerns we face. old ecus, spent fluids, wore out basic systems. they need to do a total refresh b4 we even start thinking about upgrades.
People forget how old they are. It's like getting a shop to work on an old TPI car now, like what?
Not a huge Ford guy but, seems to be more of a “customer problem” rather than a car problem. Honest professional, performance shops can’t be in the “turd polishing” business. Not a knock on the fox body itself, always thought they were cool little hotrods myself.still are but they’re still old and take more money and time to get them right than they use to. Simple, compact, easy to work on and a hoot to drive! (the few I’ve driven)
I actually agree with the shop owners. Those are some of the reasons why I left the mechanic field. Really, it's the Jeeps that threw me over the edge since everybody wants a lift kit and large tires. On the anecdote about a radiator job snowballing into bigger jobs, that's exactly why I would tell customers "Right now it's leaking here, but there's always a chance that after we fix that, it may find another weak spot somewhere to leak from."
Its not just fox body Mustangs. No shop wants to deal with a cheap owner of an old car who can't or won't pay for proper work. Either step up and pay the bill, or start your own shop.
Most shops can't work on old cars. They lack the knowledge! Can't plug in a computer to tell you what's wrong! Working on old cars and the shops don't want the liability due to lawsuits and high insurance. It's all about the money.
Even if they plugin a computer they can't figure it out. I think the computer is programed to cause most of the problems. Manufacturers are nothing but crooks.
I know certain places won't touch 70s to early 90s Chevy vans if it's some sort of electrical issue as they're known for being a nightmare. Some glass shops also won't touch them as they're notorious for the windshield channel rotting out, the place that put my windshield in had me remove it to make sure it wasn't rotten before they touched it. Some cars/trucks get bad reps some for good reason.
When you buy a 40-year-old car like mine, you will be replacing almost everything when you go to upgrade. Luckly mine is very clean and a Californian car, but my mechanic is a Foxbody guy, and he gave my car a clean bill of health. We have replaced most suspension items, and the car drives amazing compared from when I first got it. It's a slow process but mt 1983 GT Mustang convertible is mostly a stock original. I'm Getting sub frame connectors installed now and my future plan is to upgrade to an 8.8 rear end and gear change, so later down the road engine an rebuild or replacement can be done. It's a carbureted for now but no computer stuff atm which keeps it old school but great for the street and easier to work on. I was very lucky to find my mechanic through another car guy who is an auto appraiser. The Foxbody community is alive and well, I was amazed how strong it really was and the owners that I meet while driving my car always wave or give thumbs up as we pass by each other!
You are absolutely right!
I have a 1990 7-UP 5.0 AOD convertible with just over 30,000 original miles. I replaced the shocks/struts myself. I replaced the throttle bushing as it simply degraded over time. But my rear drivers side window motor went out. I bought a replacement but at 61 y/o and having large hands I cannot get it lined up correctly. Out of frustration I left it effed up and put the interior back together and now manually adjust it between using the power switch and my hands. I need the original A/C system replaced and a new top as it was torn. I need to find a reputable shop that will do that without screwing me. Eventually, I will do some upgrades to the 5.0 but this needs to be done first. I would be happy with 300 HP.
At the stock 225 HP she would do 140 (years ago) so how much more power do you really need?
The Fox platform was developed to build civilian vehicles, Fairmont and Zephyr. It was fine for a new Mustang with a six and even a smog restricted 70s level V8. But the Holy Grail then was weight reduction anywhere possible. Engine blocks and supporting frame rails were just some of those wheres.
I'm kinda lucky with my local friend's shop, they work on my 2004, but sometimes if I am suppling my own parts He will tell me to buy everything around it or new hardware, like we are about to do rear control arms on it..yes I tried to do it with a buddy..but we need a torch, bolts are seized in the collars, this is the last part of doing the entire suspension on my 2004, all the rubber is shot
This video immediately made me think of every video I’ve seen about cars that were on Pimp My Ride. They basically were just polishing turds
Funny I never heard of a garage refusing to work on any car. A good mechanic no matter where or for who they work for would have no issue working on any car. FACT!
The issue isn't doing the work. It's like you didn't watch the video.
Around 30 years ago my brother had one of those he fixed up and wanted to get it tuned up, nothing major. There was a guy down his street that was an expert car mechanic the did total restorations of older cars. His reputation was so great that my brother begged this guy to tune it. He took it down there and the guy told him that he won't touch it unless it's perfectly clean. Well, after 2 more trips down there he finally got it clean enough. My brother said it took him over 40 hours of cleaning just the engine compartment before he said OK. Now my brother keeps his cars in the most pristine conditions they can be.