Single Storey Extension Stage 3 - Drainage. Taking On Severn Trent!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ธ.ค. 2022
- In this episode we replace the existing inspection chamber for a new one, only to be told by Severn Trent that we can't do it how we'd like to! Do we change or our plans or take them on?
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Didn’t envy you one bit on that, had similar experience’s over the years. Building inspector’s used to be ex carpenters or brickies years ago so had a lot of site experience, the inspector’s of today are all taught from books not from experience and as you said what makes sense.
I have never been comfortable with bends in drains below buildings. I would have mede the pipe below the extension straight and then made changes in direction outside of the extension with the use of a double inspection chamber. A more expensive solution but a much safer outcome. I have done it many times before when all drainage was controlled by the local council. Rtired BCO
Great Job not easy in those conditions...well done ...enjoying the build..thanks
Thank you Del.
Thanks for your videos mate.
It brings back memories of my time working in the UK.
After I completed my carpentry apprenticeship in Australia, I traveled and lived in Nuneaton from 1980 and worked in Rugby and Leamington Spa. I joined with a brickie and would do extensions same as your current project...although we didn't have the red tape from local councils back then but remember cutting out the clay pipes for new PVC ones..
I also remember re-slating a cottage roof in Leamington Spa only to find out all the rafters were tree branches....
On return to Australia in 1986..the start of the cordless era, I completed the Townsville Breakwater Casino, Mirage Resort, Gold Coast and 80 Defence houses at the Tindal AF base in Katherine NT.
Currently have a concrete trucking business.. and interesting to see you use a volumetric concrete truck not an agitator.
Looking forward to your stage 4 video..
Good series this. Thanks for taking the time.
Thank you Michael! Appreciate that mate!
I'm no builder, So watching this is fascinating. What a great insight to your work. Exemplary workmanship.
Thank you, Gary! Hope you're well mate.
Simple rule, any change of direction in foul run requires an inspection chamber. It would have been simple to remove the old manhole and run the foul straight to a new inspection chamber in the original hole that had been dug.
That simply wouldn't have worked. There just wasn't room on the plot.
Well on all of the team
Hard going in wet weather
Job done 👍
Thank you, Patrick.
A couple of years ago Thames Water wanted clay drains replaced with clay, and brick built inspection chambers, Just imagine the ball ache on a job like yours. They now allow plastic provided it is the heavy duty pressure jetable type. If the can jet it without blasting a hole in it they are not worried about the blind bends.
Oh man! What a nightmare that would have been! Thank goodness common sense prevailed l! Hope you're all well, we're all obviously massive fans of yours. Take care.
Great video, really interesting! 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you Chris, really appreciate that matey.
My goodness!!..I don’t envy you boys on that one, well done.
Great work dude
Brilliant work. Hard work in narrow space
Cheers mate!
You did well! Great video. Water Companies seem to be a law unto themselves.
Thank you, Colin. They do don't they! Hope you're well mate.
Great work and very interesting, but please wear eye and face protection when using a cutter. My son's face was a terrible mess when a disc let go.
When you was going through the options at the beginning the one that you did made perfect sense..I couldn't fathom out why the water board didn't like your plan . Obviously got someone who knows what they're doing.. great job in shit conditions by the way
Thank you Paul! Appreciate that mate.
Rainwater into a main drain. Building inspector would have a heart attack round by me if they saw that 🤣
Haha! Really? It's just not an issue round here at all.
Most old buildings are on combined systems, can't do it on new builds though
That is not true. Soakaways need to be 5 metres away from any building or property boundary, and in most built up areas there is insufficient space to accomodate this, so using the sewer ( if there is no separate surface water system available ), is the only option.
@@lewisbrand
He is actually right in certain boroughs you have to have them separate and build a manhole to cater.
Wether it’s right or wrong this is why sewers become overwhelmed and discharge into our rivers.
Just watched the end. Sense prevails.
Thankfully!
We had the same problem with an inspection chamber which our architect proposed we build over. That was turned down by Wessex water and we had to extend pipes so that the the chamber could be located outside the extension. It also needed a new inspection chamber to cover a 90 degree bend and the fall in the new sections is now pretty small.
Awell done to all the team we had the same problem with them we decided to put rodding eyes to the bottom of all the new soil stacks inside and outside all the soil pipes inside wern box in we made access panels
Good work
Got over that prob without loosing your rag 👍👍😂
Thats good. You can start getting it out the ground now if you don't get froze off. If they squinnied about the change of direction, I suppose the only other thing would be 2 ic's. One to get it out the building and go 90 degrees and then one to get back on course. It's all academic now. Like I mentioned before, southern water would have us do all that in clay and probably the Chambers would be 9 inch English garden wall bond, red engineering
Can't catch a break with this job. Remember watching a Gosforth Handyman video doing something similar with his extension, think he replaced all the pipe on the property with plastic. But that's the sort of thing it's easy to justify in nice weather.
I'd be interested to hear how they described that "alternative" they proposed that you couldn't make heads nor tails of.
Existing is having an accessible inspection chamber close to the blockage prone bend so it can be rodded.
Wrap a piece of stiff paper or card around the pipe and align the edges and you'll mark a perfectly square cut line.
Started watching recently at stage 1 of the extension. I can feel your frustration but also applaud your willingness to do things the right way with all the constraints. It's so hard to find good honest builders these days, it's refreshing. Shame you can't film everything when you have to crack on with things. I wonder if you could just get a phone on a tripod and leave it on a time-lapse? Not sure how much more editing work that would be though...
Thank you DocteGaby. Thank you for watching our videos, hope you like the others coming up.
Just finished our extension in Scotland & the problems caused by drainage/sewers pipes coupled with building on a slope 😂 the guys had to dig 8 foot down to run the pipes - nightmare !! Like a ww2 bomb had gone off and left a crater. Totally worth it with the end result 🎉
Great job with the pipe👌It's a shame ST couldn't be bothered to come and take a look. Lazy bastards!!
Enjoyed that one. You never have much of a break on that job, with the weather or some problem. Glad its sorted. I'm surprised the building inspector has authority to tell you to connect rainwater into the sewer. Where I am, its not allowed, and it's the water company that prohibit it, nothing to do with the council.
Exactly, shouldn't be allowed just leads to sewage discharge into rivers as after heavy downpours the sewage works overflow with majority wastewater and have to release it all
Im surprized as its an extension the Planning/BI didnt instruct a soakaway for the additional roof area. Furthermore the "new" connection on a branch isn't best practice as its not jettable from an external manhole.
I'm a specialist serwerman and working for the Severn Trent and no way would I allow surface water going into the foul, the only way would be if the property is pre-37 and have a joint foul and storm, I would chek before backfilling.
Hello Terrance, hope you're well. It's all been checked and we have written permission. It's just not an issue with the authorities round this way. Most of the houses all have their rainwater go into a combined system including this one which also had it's detached garage go straight into it. Appreciate your comment mate.
'Another one for the list' I love it.... I've got a spreadsheet 😁
Haha! My list is long and not exhaustive!!!
You sometimes wonder whether this is meant to happen when even the weather is against you. Bloody nightmare! So glad to hear the the water folk saw sense in the end. I just hope you managed to sleep ok through all that, I know I have had many a disturbed night when my silly brain will not let me rest. Mind you I have often found a solution in the middle of the night!
Hello charles, yes I've had a few light bulb moments in the middle of the night! I must admit I was worried about this one, the alternative was so detrimental to the customers wishes. Thankfully it all worked out alright in the end!
Well worth getting a water kit for that Stihl saw, keeps the clients, neighbours and you and your team happier!
I'm hearing you mate.
I’m with this guy, google silicosis - please wear a mask and use dust suppression when cutting concrete - silicosis is the asbestos of today’s age. Take care of your lungs mate. enjoyed the video as I’ve some drainage work coming up….@@mrabuilders6723
Nice video, lads.
Thank you mate, appreciate that. Hope you're well.
Trying to deal with seven Trent is like banging your head against a brick wall, Once you can get a guy out to have a look common sense kicks in.. my problem went away in five minutes. Cheers Jim in NZ.
Hello Jim, appreciate your comment mate. I must say it echos my experience! Hope you're well.
Great news mate finally got somewere sometimes u just have to do it and then they understand but carnt wait for next vid to finally c u getting out the ground
Haha! Nearly there matey!
When I was working, (erecting steel) we were on a job where we had to erect over the old factory. One of our columns inside was right next to the toilets, and of course the soil pipe was in the way. We rigged up a temporary pipe, but it had to be removed when we craned the column through the roof. Having been into the office to ask the ladies not to use the loos, my mate was quite surprised when he heard a loo flush. When a big Richard landed at his feet, he was straight back into the office, asking who it was that had flushed the loo, with what was now the contents of his pocket. All I could do was laugh, and telling him that 5h1t happens.
Hahaha!!! Mate, that's ace!!!
All you needed at that bend was a inspection riser screw capped for future use
Hello Paul. Unfortunately mate that wouldn't have worked.
I feel your pain. we had a similar problem with Southern Water. 3 months to get a build over agreement for 800 mm of pipe. if they sent people out rather then emails to a call centre life would be a lot easier for both sides
Tough job but you did it 👍🏾
Cheers Darren. How's that nightmare job going? Hope you're well mate.
We had a buildover drain issue we needed to resolve. Did all the paperwork with Severn Trent, submitted drain surveys, engineering plans, building control approval on the design. They still said no. They do not budge an inch - so inflexible. Infuriating process.
Gutted I wanted to extend my kitchen but seems like it will be a waste of time 🤦
Great video as always. I'm holding my breath for this one. Have to replace a collapse drainage as part of the extension. Do you know where can I find the BR doc for that? Thanks.
nice job,
Thank you Steve.
Well done mate . excellent . Learnt a lot .many thanks . I am replacing the sewerage pipe in my garden .I am just a beginner .want to know how much p gravel across and over the pipes and cani put hard core and compacted over the pipes please for dpc mesh sub base flooring raft foundation trenches .got build over the pipes approval .please guide .much obliged and many thanks
Probably someone at a desk at trent Water never been near a drain before
Thanks for sharing guys. fwiw a resting bend would have made it easier for Trent Water to approve.
Or a swept bend
It was a flat no form them mate!
SOME times best not to get water authorities involved just do the drainage( job done)its one rule for them another for us!
Days like that you realise you are not a Builder but just there to "manage" the expectations of the Client and and the local authorities. Still got there in the end.
That's right, Micheal. There's so much more to it than just building stuff, isn't there.
I'm in East Sussex, our water company isn't concerned what you do if the pipework is within your own curtilage.
You need to use long-radius bends there will be no problem
Another interesting vid guys.
So that’s Jamie Oliver as well as Scott Mills off your Christmas card list?😂
Haha! They were never on it mate!!! Thank you once again, Billy.
I’ll be very interested to see what lintels you use to bridge over the pipes as I have a similar situation
Prestressed concrete ones 100 x 70 mm
I have had the opposite issue- Severn Trent have confirmed they are happy but Acivico (the birmingham council building inspection) are being difficult - no reasoning as to what their issue is despite the water company being happy with the works
get a straight coupler ,knock tabs out from inside ,remove seals then you have a great pipe marking tool for life,cheers
That's a great tip, richard. Thank you. Have a great day.
A bend in the line not aloud in Somerset
Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. Have you seen if they will have another look at it as somebody else might see eye to eye with you if they have more experience or seen a similar job 🤔
Any change of direction, and/or change of fall requires an inspection chamber. The only exception being a long radius bend ( through roddable ) close to another inspection chamber large enough to gain access to the bend. There is absolutely no way this installation complies with building regs. Why not just put a sealed and tileable cover on the inspection chamber and leave it inside the extension ? There are plenty of properties I have worked on where there was no other choice. Just because the existing drain layout does not comply with modern regs does not mean you can replace it with new works to a substandard old design.
I don't understand why they did not put the chamber in where the first hole was. Then the pipe would be straight and a new pipe could be installed without digging under the extension in the future.
Lewis sounds like the guy from Severn Trent
We've just had our first fix electrics & plumbing done. Plaster boarding almost done. Building control was OK for pre-plastering check. Bloody cold though. The silicon used for the cavity closures just hasn't set in this cold, in fact it it's just a runny mess. Just too cold!! Bromsgrove by the way.👍
You use silicone on cavity closers? That's interesting. In what way?
@@mrabuilders6723 I didn't, the builder did. I think just to get a good seal on them. It could have been adhesive? Whatever it was, it didn't set. Personally I would have used something like clout nails on the block on the inside, plasterboard over, plaster, job done.
Oh ok. I use clout nails but if the builder does it to get a better seal then fair play, I'll look into that technique.
Good job on a nasty fit had my share of septic tanks drainage fits…….. Nfld. Canada
I've never give a quote as well on an give an estimate for the unforeseen make sure you got them to sign rather than quote that makes you liable
U got that roof on yet lol
I've watched your past videos,
I know your doing everything as much as you can by the book. I admire that.
Do your self a favour and listen to me.
If the rainwater gutters and gullies are connected to the wastewater drain, rainwater could overwhelm the drain and cause flooding...
Wastewater pipes should not be connected to the rainwater system! EVER
A down pour could end up in the waste water backing up pipes.
Please look into this more with your "Inspector".
He should have told you to key the new storm water into the peatrap from the house guttering.
Also send an inspection camera down that pipe to see where the soak away is, also then access weather the rain on the m² of the new roof isn't going to overwhelm it.
And if it is, dig it up and make it bigger to accommodate the new roof size.
I've done enough of extensions, soakaways, replaced waste drainage and landscaping to know to tell you.
Just hope I'm not too late.
Looks like a hell of a difficult job, made ten times worse by the weather, as always. I once had to dig down eight feet to build a back drop manhole on a 6" live drain, with 4 foot concrete rings. I was sliding about in wet clay for 3 days, soaked to the skin. Yorkshire Water passed it eventually, and within an hour, the rain stopped and the sun came out. Did the building inspector/Severn Trent Water pass it?
Hello John, hope you're well mate. Yes it's all been passed, thankfully! It's amazing how the weather can improve as soon as you've finished isn't it!
Surprised they didn't moan about the bend in the shared sewer without a manhole on the bend. They gave us a bit of grief over a barely 20 degree bend.
seven trent water are a nightmare to deal with
Would have drilled a small hole in existing drainage system would have saved that hole filling up will water all the time, if your changing existing piping anyways 👍
Wizzer no glasses, naughty boy : )
……and dust mask……
Yeaaahh, you're both right ...soz....
Bureaucracy gone mad. Surely they could have asked for a Skype call with you showing them all the pipe layout and have an informed discussion. All well in the end but you could do without the additional hassle.
Hello Jimmy, ain't that the truth!!! I asked them a couple of times and it was a flat no.
The information to STW should have included the existing layout and the proposed - there was no need for any site meeting or skype call if the info was properly detailed. The info to STW was no more than what was properly necessary for Building Control and for the builder. It seems that there was a an intent to get away with the minimum.
You can’t rely on local authorities to do or say anything sensible, I spent a lot of time changing bitumen-fibre pipe that they had insisted in changing the old salt glaze for ! For those that missed the bitumen fibre debacle, the inner layer of bitumen degrades and the cloth under it turns backwards like an old sock, causing some horrible messes !
What your method for calculating the fall on pipe?
Could you not of plugged up the sewer until the work was done,? Thanks for the upload
Severn Trent and their "building over or adjacent to" I had to take a load of photos to prove to them that they their sewer map was about a hundred years ( the time when my house was built) out of date. Still good to get the letter saying no problem though. Ultimately we didn't build the brick detached workshop anyway but built a wooden structure elsewhere on the property so it was all for nothing.
Nightmare those awkward drainage. Its a relief once concrete is in and ready for build
Ain't that the truth!!!
@@mrabuilders6723 there's also the nightmares of excavating that what other issues can arise. Had one a few years ago that we were digging for the invisible footings and there wasn't one on existing so we had to drop the whole rear wall to part rebuild with footings to allow for it to carry the majority of the existing floor with steels and new build floor also underpin corners to allow load bearing coming down from steel carrying wall plate of roof. Old was on the piss because of subsidence. We ended up replacing half of the existing floors of the house. We later come back after completion to underpin the front side of the House. Sometimes these jobs are head scratching to price. A garage Conversion is quick turnaround without all the stress 😬 all fun and game though keeps the mind active.
God bless to you, I can here the local accent wolves here come across this all the time Severn Trent biggest money scam ever ( they don’t know where half there drains are we pay them ( customers) to find out , got own small building firm ,everyone thinks your a millionaire when the reality is we keep on getting hit , all the best for the future
Thank you Mark and you are totally right in every way! Take care mate.
The issue here would have been that the inspection chamber is there because of the 45° turn, can’t have a change of change in direction with out a chamber
I've got a letter from Severn Trent saying that you can, so who's right? The governing body of the water waste system in this part of the country or some random person wedged into a load of TH-cam comments? Thank you for watching though. All the best.
Hello again now I watched this video with particular interest as I was helping my son with his extension earlier in the year and it wasn't as complicated as your pipe work just a straight thru hepsleve pipe. Now this is with welsh water they made us put in two m/holes either end of the footing encase the pipes with pea gravel and 4 x 3 inch conc. lintels over the top 12 in total 6 either side (It was mass fill footing) which as daft as sounds cost close on £600 with their fee. Even are own building inspector thought it was massive overkill. The same nonsense you had, in my mind total bollocks just screwing you for the money GRRRRRRRR.
Most water companies have the best quality standards, which is to be expected. With the new legislation they became responsible for 10,000s km of newly acquired sewers that they were not paid to deal with. It was a case of the Govt fixing something that was not broken. STW confirmed to me that they had acquired 38,000km of 'new' sewers. I have found that the water companies can be open to discussion on the details of construction. Your example is not as bad as in Anglian Water area where initially standing orders would not allow building within 3m of the sewer line (the maintenance strip), since most of these drains/newly designated sewers were along the backs of houses this would mean that no rear extensions would be allowed! It just goes to show that the Govt didn't think the legislation through.
On one project a new extension was planned across the back of a semi-D and the drains from the existing outside toilet was thought to serve only the clients house . The new extension therefore had an inspection chamber in the corner of a shower room for any future cleaning. The scheme achieved planning approval and then the new legislation came in and whilst applying for Building Regs we consulted STW to see if they had any drainage records of the housing and they showed the drains going in the opposite direction. We carried out some exploratory investigation and found that the drain flowed in the opposite direction to that shown on STW's records i.e. the drain was under the new extension and as it served the neighbour's house it was a new public sewer. We were required to create a new IC on the boundary i.e the one we had in the shower room but this had to be outside of the building, which meant that the corner had to be cut out to accommodate the IC! STW's standard construction details couldn't be accommodated due to the levels of the drain so we agreed to case the drain in concrete. The cut out in the corner of the building was put to use as a covered wood store, the wood being moved to access the IC.
Maybe it’s time the water authorities employed people like yourself, with the knowledge and experience you have
For give me but u could see the existing manhole was in line with the footing before work started, so y wait until u had nearly all the footings in before u talked to Severn water.y wasn't it thought of before commencing any work
Don’t be I lazy and make your own😂
Had load of issues with severn trent during my build no help at all
Couldn’t you have put in two inspection chambers? Extending the straight line out the building to one, then linked to the second where it would change direction? Direct lines all the time?
Hello Martin. No chance I'm afraid. There just wasn't the room to get the angle to get back to existing and only use 30⁰ bends as per the request of Severn Trent. We way that we did it was the only way it could have been done. Have a great new year mate.
Can you get some support from building control at all, to back up your proposal?
Hello Jono, hope you're well mate. Yes, building control was happy from day one but they wouldn't be able to sign it off without Severn Trent's approval.
It’s such a lottery dealing with these authorities. It could easily have gone the opposite way.
It definitely could have, Kevin. Luckily we got hold of a practical person in the office and it went through! It was definitely squeaky bum time!
15:15 i just use a off cut of pipe about 50mm wide with a 80mm cut out and snap it onto the pipe
I thought they would have been looking for a long radius 45° bend in the main line
Hello David, hope you're well. Everything was replaced like for like. Thank you for watching.
@@mrabuilders6723not like for like as the inspection chamber was there for the change in direction 😂, you’ve removed that and then but an additional angle on top which is a second point for blockage, a complete lack of like for like
I'm in the process of filling in the form but don't have much confidence 🤦
Go for it! We'll help you along the way, just ask!
Its because the water company's literally read out of CESWI
Looks like you could do with a drainage consultant 🤔
I have same with Thames water, they want like for like materials, no plastic onto clay....
Hello Philip, is that right! You have to replace clay with clay?
@@mrabuilders6723 yeah!!!! It's a nightmare sometimes, the reason is that they dont want drain runs with different spices etc which I understand in some situations but should be reviewed on an individual project basis
Don’t you suppress the silica dust from your disc saw?
Not on this particular occasion, no. My bad. Soz.
Should have brought the lateral out of the extension footprint into a tee and built your IC at that point. That would have eliminated the 45 degree bend altogether.
Hello Rick, hope you're well. Can you explain that in a bit more detail please? Not too sure what you mean. Cheers mate.
@@mrabuilders6723 errrmm, I’ll try ! Haha
Continue the main lateral right through the original IC to just outside the extension footprint.
This then meets your new lateral from the loft conversion SVP.
At this tee, construct a new IC…
I hope this sounds as simple as it does in my head ! 😂
Your new IC would be where you excavated first time. Any bends downstream of this would be outside the footprint and readily accessible if needed.
The reason the bend is frowned upon is because it will now be under the extension and be an absolute nightmare to repair should it require…
Haha! Cheers man! Really appreciate your reply. I know exactly what you're saying now. Unfortunately we just couldn't do that and keep the bends to a maximum of 30⁰ which is what Severn Trent wanted. Which just didn't have the room within the boundaries of the property to get the angle back in. The only way we got away with the 45⁰ is that it was already there. It can be rodded from two different points and jetted.
@@mrabuilders6723 ahh I must have missed the boy about maximum angle of any bends !
You sound like Roy Wood!!
Funny you should say that, Roy Wood and I have a few things in common, one being that we both wish that it could be Christmas every day...
@@mrabuilders6723 🤣🤣🤣......You also say "So to speak" a lot as he does!
Get a Jamie Oliver’s Cornish pasty next time you’re at Shell, they’re dynamite
Dynamite? Is that because they destroy your bank account???
Why not put the roof water into the soil pipe on the side of the house temporarily until your ready to connect the loft toilet🤷♂️saves it flooding your footing until your up to damp
At the end of the day this shouldn't be costing you a penny same as the foundation, down to a bad Architect who should have had all the proposed design layout of new drainage runs on a drawing, then any deviation is chargable. Nothing wrong with RW going into an existing combined system rightly or wrongly its allowed. In my area the manhole base must be bedded on concrete not pea shingle.
Cheers Andy, it's always good to hear from you, someone who knows both what they are talking about and also what and how to do it when it doesn't translate into the real world. Hope you're well mate, take care.
@@mrabuilders6723 👍
Who’s paying for all these delays , stepped footers , camera inspections, extra digging etc . How do you protect yourself from rouge inspectors who refuse to come out in the rain. How many man hours did you budget for site works I’m curious. I’m a QS working for a design build commercial contractor and our civil estimator is in one of the best I’ve known . Our proposals are very thorough with inclusions and exclusions ,weather impacts (hot and cold) . It’s not easy easy telling clients you are experiencing unforeseen conditions . Last summer here in California we lost 7 days for about 500 men due to excessive heat . It’s a risky business for sure.
Did I miss it or have you forgotten to put the photo in that you showed them ? Thanks
Hello mate, I may have forgotten to put it in the video, sorry mate!
No probs 🤣
Can understand there have to be rules but common sense has to be considered surely
Hello Andrew, that was our argument all along. There's no way that our plan wouldn't work, it's the exact same line as it was before, it just needed common sense to prevail! Thankfully it did in the end! Thank you for watching mate, all the best.
What a shame you come up against armchair experts, the final agreement probably comes from a more experienced person. That’s progress for you. 10/10 for tenacity and doing your best. Regards Mike
Thank you Mike! Appreciate that mate, thank you.
Hi, I wanted to turn my garage into 1 bed studio, however my garage is at the front of the property, the only man hole I can see is at the back of the property. The next next door neighbour on the left has man hole in his garden. I rang severn trent and they sent me some forms which i really don't understand. Whats my best bet, try and investigate on my own getting sewer maps or just calling in professional, builder doesn't want to touch the drainage system. I'm in Leicester if you know anyone round here.
I fail to see the ownership of the drain. Certainly here in Scotland, if its in your garden its your problem. The way Scottish Water works is that main sewers are in the street, generally, as is the water main. As soon as either goes under a fence or wall and into your garden its yours, Scottish Water don't want to know. On this basis I'd tell ST to get stuffed and crack on.