The answer is simply A2. BRKT always give 3V fatter geometry and larger apex angle by all means. Being realistic we are happy with A2 and cannot be happy with 3V out of the box.
A2 is the best steel you could hope for in a knife. The only downfall is that the higher carbon content makes it prone to rusting, but keep it oiled and there is nothing better.
My basic sharpening stones are Naniwa Chosera 400, 800, 2000, 3000 stones. In case of regular convex edges in regular steels I skip the 3000 stone and go to Bark River black and white compound directly from the 2000 stone. In case of Scandi edges or hard steels like 3V or D2, I use all the stones and go directly to the white compound skipping the black compound. 2000 is a bit too coarse before the white compound in case of Scandi bevel or hard steels in my current opinion. Thanks.
Hello my friend.WHat is your opinion on fighting blades 7+ inches blades as far as cpm 3v if its' a great material for that or is there anything better than that?
I disagree. The fact is that we are all getting the benefit of a man pursuing his hobby and sharing his experience and knowledge. He is not writing an article for a consumer magazine and there is no obligation upon him to be mathematically objective. He spends a great deal of his own money following his passion and I, for one, am very grateful for his channel. I would politely suggest that you could be a little less critical and a little more understanding in your comments.
I don't have a nice 3V survival knife for now. Bravo1.5 is A2. Canadian is A2. Gunny is A2. All are A2. Both sharpness and powerfulness are needed to survive a tough situation. Durable 3V is unsharp. The most shocking issue which initiated me to make this video was my hand sharpened 3V Bravo1.5 was proven to be much duller than the factory A2 Bravo1.5. I don't think of your extreme field edge restoration. I just take a sharp steel over a durable blunt steel. Thanks.
The Moran's VG10 chipped in a small angle like 25 degrees during my field deer dressing. And it was too light for me. So I gave it to a non hunting friend of mine. Thanks.
Mora's 12C27 took micro rolls after cutting soft pine while its carbon didn't. I guess its carbon is more durable as Helle's carbon is more durable than its 12C27 in my field deer dressing. Thanks.
I think there are a couple of practical reasons for this. 3V is pretty expensive material to buy vs. o-1 or 1095 or A2. The thicker grind might be to to avoid warranty issues which would make the knives more expensive for everyone in the long run. When putting a blended high convex on, you use a slack belt. When the steels are very difficult to grind, you tend to end up with thicker geometry as the central portion of the grind due to pressures in the slack belt being greatest on the edges.
A2 all the time. Every time. High impact planer blades of o1 a2 d2 are and always will be there. Sharp, tough, and easy to sharpen. People who don't understand what works in the bush.... will always go.with what the internet tells them best. And sadly they'll never experience it
@@nils-ph3zs meh haven't been overly impressed with 3v. Hasn't done anything more than a2. Literally for everything I do. Field dress large game. Actual bushcraft. Not baton or make feather stick. Actually make stuff. I'm not say 3v is poor. It just simply doesn't out perform a2 in actual use
Thank you for another excellent video. I always enjoy watching your videos. I am about to purchase a Bark River Knife and without this video, I probably would have purchased one in 3V. I will now purchase it in A2. Thank your for educating me.
There is large difference in geometry. The angle of A2 seems less than 25 degrees while the angle of 3V seems larger than 30 degrees. BRKT take three ways to increase the angle which are micro bevel, fat geometry, and low grind. One or two of them appear almost definitely to all the 3V knives in my experience. Thanks.
Saw People. Set and Kerf are the english terms you may have been seeking. The teeth protrude to the left and right, so that the saw cut (kerf) is wider than the blade width. The term set describes how much the teeth protrude. The kerf may sometimes be wider than the set, depending on wobble and other factors. Love your videos.
I say about geometry issue. BRKT increase the edge angle of their 3V knives in 3 ways, fat geometry, micro bevel, low grind. They will need large angle for a technical reason. 3V takes my stone sharpening to make as small angle as A2. But their 3V angle from the factory is always much larger than A2. I suspect they won't be able to make small angle by machine to 3V which is extremely hard. 3V is 3 times as durable as A2 in the same angle. I appreciate it. But I cannot on its geometry. Thanks.
Thank you for your time and informative video. You have many circumstantial bug out knife belts shown in your video, but for most people we would like to know which set up is your "go to" favorite. I am sure all will do well in a emergency situation, At that point it comes down to personal preference- which do you like no matter what? i love your Bark River/Mora/Silky Saw combo choices.
Mr Waco, thank you for all your fantastic insight and sharing nature. Please advise on your current opinion on waterstones for knife sharpening and edge/bevel modification. I have looked all through your videos and from what I can see, the Naniwa waterstones in 400, 800 and 2000 should be suitable with some strops? Also, the exact model of Naniwa stone.A purchasing mistake will be expensive!! There are several models; Chosera, Super Stones etc. Which ones do you use? Thank you VERY much
Although this is not a scientifically sustainable test, it sums up the very basic metallurgical characteristics of the two steels. 3V is tougher, holds the edge longer and stains less. A2 takes a sharper edge and has less tendency to chip. It's up to individual preferences and the use made of the knife that at the end should guide through the buying decision process.
If you are interested in a thinner blade you should check out the Kephart model from Bark River. These knives are modeled after the knives made by a famous early American bushcrafting expert: Horace Kephart.
i am happy u use the bear deterent. i believe their are ways to keep from being attact, especially mother with cubs around, aleays look for beard prints on muddy rivver sides
Viewing your videos I learned much about Bark River knives, enough to appreciate their quality design, thank you for sharing, and I realized that for all round use the Gunny rampless in A2 is the choice for me (medium hands and mountain climate). I must decide now between the hunter or the drop point, looking some pics the blade seems to be quite similar profile, despite the hunter must have thinner edge. Thanks again.
I guess they cannot make small angle on 3V by machine because they chips due to its hardness. Maybe its final grind must be done by hand. Even in a small angle 3V outperforms A2 definitely. I cannot imagine another reasoning for its factory made large angle sacrificing its super performance. Thanks.
A wider or thicker edge is great for splitting wood, but not so good for cutting. I like a narrower edge as you can still split with it if you have to, but it makes cutting much easier. The other alternative is carry two (but I don't like to). I like 3V, but it means extra work for yourself when putting an edge on it (don't know if you've seen OUTDOORS55's recent video where he made a prototype lightweight from 3V, man what a lot of work! Beautiful result though)
Their current 3V is no chippy different from before and 3 times as durable as A2 in the same angle. The problem is 3V is tough to reprofile because of its hardness. But once it is reprofiled to have appropriate angle, its performance is incredible. In terms of that I still love 3V over A2. But when they take low grind to increase the angle, it will be much tougher than the case of micro bevel or fat geometry. Bravo1.5 and Gunny Hunter have low grind. Anyway 3V doesn't chip during sharpening.
Interesting video Doc, now that you are taking a greater interest in bushcraft and survival type knives may I ask how you feel the Fallkniven range (say, typically, S1 and A1) compare against the Gunny and Bravo of Bark River? I suspect you have never reviewed them because they have such a wide convex angle starting from half way down the depth of the blade - more like the 3V Bravo 1.5. Would that be a fair assumption? Many thanks.
Hi Wako, love your videos! Have you tried the Enzo Badger for your bushcraft tasks? My guess is that it's going to perform better that the 3V Hunter Gunny or even the A2 Gunny. Would love to see a video on that! Thanks!
I wonder if you would have used a diamond stone to sharpen the 3v you may get a better sharpening results faster then a wet stone and maybe the 3v would be more comparable to the a2.
🔪 Your videos are really informative. It’s obvious, that knives and the great outdoors are your passion and that you lead by example and put your money where your mouth is. All great attributes. But…I do have one critique about this video. If I’m wrong, I’d like to apologize in advance. To me, you are comparing apples to oranges. You said that you prefer A2 steel over 3V because “Bark River A2 does NOT come with a “micro-bevel” like the 3V models.” (I’m paraphrasing.) The first thing I noticed was, you were not comparing A2 with 3V…from a “metallurgical” point of view; at the microscopic level. Example: “I like A2 because it is easier to sharpen than 3V steel.” Instead, you like A2 because it’s “architecture” or design does NOT have a “micro-bevel.” You could have said, “I like a Scandi grind better than a Convex grind or a Hollow grind” and that is perfectly fine. But, A2 steel and 3V steel are different from a “chemistry” point of view-that will NEVER change. On the other hand, an A2 Scandi grind and a 3V Scandi grind should perform the SAME for 1-cut. But, the way that they would be DIFFERENT is if you made 100-cuts. Now, metallurgy comes into play. The 3V steel should stay sharper for a longer period of time than the A2 steel. “Speed” for 1-cut could depend on “design.” “Endurance” or retaining an edge, will depend on “metallurgy.” So, my question to you is: All things being equal (sharpness and grind), which STEEL do you like; A2 or 3V? Thank you for your time and patience. Keep up the good work!!!
Hi Virtuovice. I know that this is an older video but can you please share where you get the leather sheaths for your Silky saws? Thank you for all your great videos and information.
An alternative case I use for the Silky Gomboy is Condor MA31 single P90/UMP45 mag pouch, and you can find them on Amazon. They are indestructible, light weight, durable, and resized to your liking with velcro. (edit - they only cost about $12 U.S. with free shipping)
I admire the way you sharpen knives with your water stones. However, since 3V is a harder steel, do you feel A2 becomes sharper since 3V cannot be sharpened as efficiently with the stones? It would be interesting to have you sharpen the 3V with diamond stones. Perhaps the diamond would sharpen the harder steel better. You have already mentioned that stropping is not as effective on 3V.
I think the reason for the fatter grind geometry on the 3V knives comes from how much harder they are to grind. CPM 3V eats grinding belts like nobody's business, especially in post heat-treat grinding.
Where do you live buddy? Kodiak Island? I can only assume you got a lot of grizzly bears, but since it's an island, maybe they are called Alaskan brown bears?
He's from the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido. He said in his area there are lots of black bears and some reports of attacks. In his country gun laws are very restrictive, they can't even have handguns. Im glad we dont have that issue in the usa.
He isn't just basing his judgment on that comparison of those two knives, he has many of the blades in both 3V and A2 and has seen a consistent difference in heavier bevels in the 3V blades. It is always possible he is reporting a false positive but considering the amount of blades he has used, in order for that to be likely the population variance in regards to geometry would have to be huge.
The A2 *may* have been faster cutting, but how long will it hold it's edge when you're chopping? No pun intended, but we're splitting hairs between the two, IMHO. I love your vids, but this leaves some large gray areas in the testing. That new knife is sweet though, great choice!
Hello friend! Really nice vid! I wish we could seat at a bar table a discuss the difference betwen both steels. Really interesting results! And 3V is much more expensive. I'm looking to buy a bark river bravo 1 and I have a question for you friend: What do you think about these wood handles? Are they better os worse than micarta or g10? THX a lot!
G10 is substantially heavier than Micarta or wood. And G10 is much colder in winter than the other materials. So I don't like G10 at all. Wood is the warmest and the lightest. If you don't live in a country where the temperature in winter doesn't go as low as water freezes, Micarta is satisfying for toughness. But for anti-coldness, beauty, light weight, wood is nicer. Thanks.
Thales Rezende Micarta is always tougher than any woods. You have to know that wood can bend/detach, or crack. Instead wood is always lighter than Micarta. Wood burl has the highest probability to take troubles regardless if it is stabilized or not. The toughest wood is Desert Ironwood (not burl) and Bocote in my experience. Thanks.
+virtuovice i like bark river knives but is lil expensive for me..what about marttini knives or helle really i need your opinion.Just info for you check Skalidakis knives is very old knives company and have traditional techniques..
asiatic black bears, b/c not the biggest of bears, that they are not dangerous, so untrue, all bears are extremely small, when they attack a man, there is much fear, and they will kill. listen to virtuo voice, bears are extremely important for the environment out in the wild
In my case Bark River white compound works very well after Chosera #3000 stone on 3V. I feel like Bark River black compound is coarse but weak against 3V. Thanks.
Hi, i've a question about this test; is this experiment valid on bravo 1.5 geometry only or for other geometry too in your experience expecially in little bark river model where there's a2 and 3v options? thx
My recent experiences on Bravo1, Gunny and Fox River show me that current 3V geometry is thin and the same as A2 geometry. They seem like having given up fat geometry on 3V as they temper 3V HRC 59 the same as A2. The early 3V was HRC60~61 and its geometry was ridiculously thick, but now it is okay. Thanks.
Great video. Thank you for putting this up. I recently purchased a Bark River Bravo 1 LT in 3V, and there is no micro-bevel -- it's pure convex all the way. I don't think they're putting micro-bevels on these knives today. Also, most people today are favoring 3V over A2. A2 can perhaps claim a little better toughness; but 3V also has acceptable toughness, and much better edge retention and resistance to corrosion. I don't think there is a need for a difference in blade geometry between those two steels.
There is more to steel selection and profile than just sharpness for an "all around" knife. I would pick CPM 3V because of its superior corrosion resistance and toughness for use in the outdoors. I would pick A2 for indoor work or non-survival situations. Depending on its the tempering treatment A2 will be more brittle than 3V too. Finally, you can easily destroy the proper heat treatment of a blade by doing gross re-profiling if you don't know what you are doing.
@faultroy Beckers use 1095CV... also known as 1095 Cro-Van.. also known as not f**king 1095 and I wish they would rename it or stop calling it that, because it's a far superior steel. It has gone by many names, such as 50100B or Carbon V. Don't think twice about batoning it.
@faultroyPlease don't think my use of "f**king" was attaching you, just that I feel they sell themselves short by calling it that. I've seen that post, and have been a member on bladeforums back when that was posted and saw a few other discussions on it pop up over time too. From what I gather from ALL the discussion, it is an improvement. But even in the post you selected we see "...it is a better steel than just straight 1095." Plus, many feel (myself included) that their heat treat is good as well which IMO is the biggest factor. Given both of those things, I'm just surprised that in a knife market saturated with misleading hype, they would just call the steel what they do. Also, after Camillus stopped producing it the reports of failures dropped drastically. Given that this is a well known, commonly bought knife that many average users and dummies will abuse, and it holds up as well as it does, I do think it's a pretty safe knife to baton, relatively.
I understood CPM-3V is substantially harder and tougher and more rust resistant than A2 after a lot of practice. You should take the 3V over A2 if possible.
The 5.5mm thickness should be considered only for powerful wood splitting. Otherwise the 4mm thickness makes the ideal convex geometry of Bark River. The thinner than 4mm thickness needs a micro bevel. The 4mm thickness is their standard one.
@@virtuovice So it looks like you are recommending the LT version which is 0.154" (3.91mm) thick. The standard one would actually be the thicker one, either 0.237" (6mm) or 0.213" (5.4mm). Can you explain why the thinner one needs a micro bevel?
@@Metalhead-4life Bark River's bevel geometry is in a single arc convex whose radius is very large and the 4mm thickness makes the right apex angle like 30 degrees inclusive in many cases. In case of a high bevel like Bravo knives the 5.5mm thickness can make the right apex angle. But the 3mm thickness of Fox River LT makes too small an apex angle though the Gunny LT makes a right angle because of its low bevel grind. In conclusion their geometries are the same regardless of their bevel height, so you need to chose the right thickness for the bevel height when you don't like a micro bevel or too large an apex angle. Thanks.
@@virtuovice Thanks for the info. Do you still recommend the A2 over the 3v? I have been trying to find a Bravo 1.25 in anything other than A2 steel for about 1.5 years. It looks like Bark River is too busy making other knives than to do a run of their best selling knives. (Bravo)
@@Metalhead-4life I prefer 3V to A2 now because 3V is tougher and more rust resistant than A2. I remember Bark River announced the handle of coming batches of Bravo knives other than Bravo1 is going to be a little longer. I think you should wait for it. Thanks.
A2 is ok if not in wet area for extended outings 3 v is way better hard use knife this is from a outdoorsman now of 70 yrs of age tired of cleaning rust off carbon steel likea2
A2 is the best steel you could hope for in a knife. The only downfall is that the higher carbon content makes it prone to rusting, but keep it oiled and there is nothing better.
My basic sharpening stones are Naniwa Chosera 400, 800, 2000, 3000 stones. In case of regular convex edges in regular steels I skip the 3000 stone and go to Bark River black and white compound directly from the 2000 stone. In case of Scandi edges or hard steels like 3V or D2, I use all the stones and go directly to the white compound skipping the black compound. 2000 is a bit too coarse before the white compound in case of Scandi bevel or hard steels in my current opinion. Thanks.
Hello my friend.WHat is your opinion on fighting blades 7+ inches blades as far as cpm 3v if its' a great material for that or is there anything better than that?
It just makes me happy to hear "Hello knife people" nowadays, its such a cool touch to your videos!
I disagree. The fact is that we are all getting the benefit of a man pursuing his hobby and sharing his experience and knowledge. He is not writing an article for a consumer magazine and there is no obligation upon him to be mathematically objective. He spends a great deal of his own money following his passion and I, for one, am very grateful for his channel. I would politely suggest that you could be a little less critical and a little more understanding in your comments.
Great video! I am a carbon steel fan myself. A2 for me!
I don't have a nice 3V survival knife for now. Bravo1.5 is A2. Canadian is A2. Gunny is A2. All are A2. Both sharpness and powerfulness are needed to survive a tough situation. Durable 3V is unsharp. The most shocking issue which initiated me to make this video was my hand sharpened 3V Bravo1.5 was proven to be much duller than the factory A2 Bravo1.5. I don't think of your extreme field edge restoration. I just take a sharp steel over a durable blunt steel. Thanks.
Have your opinions on 3V over the years changed at all or are you still an A2 fan??
I enjoy your videos very much and have learned a lot from you.and you I have an outstanding collection.
Great videos and hello from Canada 🇨🇦
The Moran's VG10 chipped in a small angle like 25 degrees during my field deer dressing. And it was too light for me. So I gave it to a non hunting friend of mine. Thanks.
Mora's 12C27 took micro rolls after cutting soft pine while its carbon didn't. I guess its carbon is more durable as Helle's carbon is more durable than its 12C27 in my field deer dressing. Thanks.
I think there are a couple of practical reasons for this. 3V is pretty expensive material to buy vs. o-1 or 1095 or A2. The thicker grind might be to to avoid warranty issues which would make the knives more expensive for everyone in the long run. When putting a blended high convex on, you use a slack belt. When the steels are very difficult to grind, you tend to end up with thicker geometry as the central portion of the grind due to pressures in the slack belt being greatest on the edges.
Wow you got some dick
A2 all the time. Every time. High impact planer blades of o1 a2 d2 are and always will be there. Sharp, tough, and easy to sharpen. People who don't understand what works in the bush.... will always go.with what the internet tells them best. And sadly they'll never experience it
thats just personal preference...i own lots of different steels including A2 and 3v...i would never choose A2 over 3v.
@@nils-ph3zs meh haven't been overly impressed with 3v. Hasn't done anything more than a2. Literally for everything I do. Field dress large game. Actual bushcraft. Not baton or make feather stick. Actually make stuff. I'm not say 3v is poor. It just simply doesn't out perform a2 in actual use
Thank you for another excellent video. I always enjoy watching your videos. I am about to purchase a Bark River Knife and without this video, I probably would have purchased one in 3V. I will now purchase it in A2. Thank your for educating me.
There is large difference in geometry. The angle of A2 seems less than 25 degrees while the angle of 3V seems larger than 30 degrees. BRKT take three ways to increase the angle which are micro bevel, fat geometry, and low grind. One or two of them appear almost definitely to all the 3V knives in my experience. Thanks.
Waco, I love your vids! I've adopted your style of edge geometry, works great for me. You the man! Chuck
You say the point. I once owned the S1. It was not a sharp knife at all. After comparing it with Bravo1 I sold it off immediately. Thanks.
Saw People. Set and Kerf are the english terms you may have been seeking. The teeth protrude to the left and right, so that the saw cut (kerf) is wider than the blade width. The term set describes how much the teeth protrude. The kerf may sometimes be wider than the set, depending on wobble and other factors. Love your videos.
Just bought one from Japan. Looking forward to receiving it. Thank you.
Excellent video ! Thank you very much !
I say about geometry issue. BRKT increase the edge angle of their 3V knives in 3 ways, fat geometry, micro bevel, low grind. They will need large angle for a technical reason. 3V takes my stone sharpening to make as small angle as A2. But their 3V angle from the factory is always much larger than A2. I suspect they won't be able to make small angle by machine to 3V which is extremely hard. 3V is 3 times as durable as A2 in the same angle. I appreciate it. But I cannot on its geometry. Thanks.
Sir, EXCELLENT observations.
Thank you Sir, for your hard work in producing this video.
Oscar
Nice , good to know . I recently buy a Aurora with the A2 steel 🙂
Thank you for your time and informative video. You have many circumstantial bug out knife belts shown in your video, but for most people we would like to know which set up is your "go to" favorite. I am sure all will do well in a emergency situation, At that point it comes down to personal preference- which do you like no matter what? i love your Bark River/Mora/Silky Saw combo choices.
I think the fact that they just say 3V is a better steel is misleading us largely. They should announce about its angle largeness as well. Thanks.
Another well demonstrated video. I am finding your thoughts on edge geometry most interesting...
Hell, the griptillian was 9 seconds faster than the 3v. You did an excellent job reprofiling that knife.
Mr Waco, thank you for all your fantastic insight and sharing nature.
Please advise on your current opinion on waterstones for knife sharpening and edge/bevel modification. I have looked all through your videos and from what I can see, the Naniwa waterstones in 400, 800 and 2000 should be suitable with some strops?
Also, the exact model of Naniwa stone.A purchasing mistake will be expensive!! There are several models; Chosera, Super Stones etc. Which ones do you use?
Thank you VERY much
Although this is not a scientifically sustainable test, it sums up the very basic metallurgical characteristics of the two steels. 3V is tougher, holds the edge longer and stains less. A2 takes a sharper edge and has less tendency to chip. It's up to individual preferences and the use made of the knife that at the end should guide through the buying decision process.
Please can you do a review on you chisel grind hatchet. Yours looks amazing.
Thanks.
Thanks for the review. Greetings from Texas my friend.
Doctor Waco... you are one of the best "Knife People" on TH-cam! Thanks.
Informative video and the maker clearly knows his stuff!
Thanks very much. I really appreciate your time.
If you are interested in a thinner blade you should check out the Kephart model from Bark River. These knives are modeled after the knives made by a famous early American bushcrafting expert: Horace Kephart.
I am strongly interested in your hatchet
i am happy u use the bear deterent. i believe their are ways to keep from being attact, especially mother with cubs around, aleays look for beard prints on muddy rivver sides
Viewing your videos I learned much about Bark River knives, enough to appreciate their quality design, thank you for sharing, and I realized that for all round use the Gunny rampless in A2 is the choice for me (medium hands and mountain climate). I must decide now between the hunter or the drop point, looking some pics the blade seems to be quite similar profile, despite the hunter must have thinner edge. Thanks again.
+Axland Gamer Gunny Hunter has a narrower blade and lower grind, and larger edge angle. For wood jobs regular Gunny works better. Thanks.
+virtuovice Thank you for the info.
what are the square nose knives? very nice!
nice video i love japan i hope i can visit it one day. your knives are very beautiful greetings from germany
I guess they cannot make small angle on 3V by machine because they chips due to its hardness. Maybe its final grind must be done by hand. Even in a small angle 3V outperforms A2 definitely. I cannot imagine another reasoning for its factory made large angle sacrificing its super performance. Thanks.
A wider or thicker edge is great for splitting wood, but not so good for cutting. I like a narrower edge as you can still split with it if you have to, but it makes cutting much easier. The other alternative is carry two (but I don't like to). I like 3V, but it means extra work for yourself when putting an edge on it (don't know if you've seen OUTDOORS55's recent video where he made a prototype lightweight from 3V, man what a lot of work! Beautiful result though)
Thank you excellent vid. Nice belts there.
Thank you your the man to watch when it comes to learning about convex grinds. I always enjoy watching your videos brother.
Their current 3V is no chippy different from before and 3 times as durable as A2 in the same angle. The problem is 3V is tough to reprofile because of its hardness. But once it is reprofiled to have appropriate angle, its performance is incredible. In terms of that I still love 3V over A2. But when they take low grind to increase the angle, it will be much tougher than the case of micro bevel or fat geometry. Bravo1.5 and Gunny Hunter have low grind. Anyway 3V doesn't chip during sharpening.
A2 or d2?
Interesting video Doc, now that you are taking a greater interest in bushcraft and survival type knives may I ask how you feel the Fallkniven range (say, typically, S1 and A1) compare against the Gunny and Bravo of Bark River? I suspect you have never reviewed them because they have such a wide convex angle starting from half way down the depth of the blade - more like the 3V Bravo 1.5. Would that be a fair assumption? Many thanks.
Super Video, Thanks for making such Awesome content!!!
Great videos thanks!
as far as I have seen v3 has better edge retention over a2... have you tested this?
What’s the second knife you show? The Japanese bush crafter as you called it? That thing is beautiful.
But I think 3v holds an edge longer even though it might not be as sharp at the start.
J Dorner harder to sharpen in the field
154 is sharp and easily sharpened.
I'd put VG10 in the same booth as A2. Although it's stainless, strong, easy to sharpen and does not stain as much as A2.
What is that small Japanese knife? Looks really neat.
Doesnt 3v have a finer grain stucture though because it is a powdered steel? I would think that it would take a finer edge.
Hi Wako, love your videos! Have you tried the Enzo Badger for your bushcraft tasks? My guess is that it's going to perform better that the 3V Hunter Gunny or even the A2 Gunny. Would love to see a video on that! Thanks!
I wonder if you would have used a diamond stone to sharpen the 3v you may get a better sharpening results faster then a wet stone and maybe the 3v would be more comparable to the a2.
so which of the bravo 1.5 has the better edge retention the A2 or the cpm 3v?
Thank you. That was very helpful
what about the br aurora in 3v?
@Virtuovice: Are you in Japan? If so, could you explain Japanese knife laws a bit (and how you get around them)?
🔪 Your videos are really informative. It’s obvious, that knives and the great outdoors are your passion and that you lead by example and put your money where your mouth is. All great attributes. But…I do have one critique about this video. If I’m wrong, I’d like to apologize in advance. To me, you are comparing apples to oranges. You said that you prefer A2 steel over 3V because “Bark River A2 does NOT come with a “micro-bevel” like the 3V models.” (I’m paraphrasing.)
The first thing I noticed was, you were not comparing A2 with 3V…from a “metallurgical” point of view; at the microscopic level. Example: “I like A2 because it is easier to sharpen than 3V steel.” Instead, you like A2 because it’s “architecture” or design does NOT have a “micro-bevel.” You could have said, “I like a Scandi grind better than a Convex grind or a Hollow grind” and that is perfectly fine. But, A2 steel and 3V steel are different from a “chemistry” point of view-that will NEVER change. On the other hand, an A2 Scandi grind and a 3V Scandi grind should perform the SAME for 1-cut. But, the way that they would be DIFFERENT is if you made 100-cuts. Now, metallurgy comes into play. The 3V steel should stay sharper for a longer period of time than the A2 steel.
“Speed” for 1-cut could depend on “design.” “Endurance” or retaining an edge, will depend on “metallurgy.”
So, my question to you is: All things being equal (sharpness and grind), which STEEL do you like; A2 or 3V?
Thank you for your time and patience. Keep up the good work!!!
Hi Virtuovice. I know that this is an older video but can you please share where you get the leather sheaths for your Silky saws? Thank you for all your great videos and information.
Kozuchi SN-11 is the right size for Pocketboy 170 and Gomboy 210. Kozuchi SN-12 is for Gomboy 240. But I don't think they sell overseas. Thanks.
An alternative case I use for the Silky Gomboy is Condor MA31 single P90/UMP45 mag pouch, and you can find them on Amazon. They are indestructible, light weight, durable, and resized to your liking with velcro. (edit - they only cost about $12 U.S. with free shipping)
I admire the way you sharpen knives with your water stones. However, since 3V is a harder steel, do you feel A2 becomes sharper since 3V cannot be sharpened as efficiently with the stones? It would be interesting to have you sharpen the 3V with diamond stones. Perhaps the diamond would sharpen the harder steel better. You have already mentioned that stropping is not as effective on 3V.
Thicker 3v and micro bevel keeps it from chipping probably
I think the reason for the fatter grind geometry on the 3V knives comes from how much harder they are to grind. CPM 3V eats grinding belts like nobody's business, especially in post heat-treat grinding.
Where do you live buddy? Kodiak Island? I can only assume you got a lot of grizzly bears, but since it's an island, maybe they are called Alaskan brown bears?
He's from the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido. He said in his area there are lots of black bears and some reports of attacks. In his country gun laws are very restrictive, they can't even have handguns. Im glad we dont have that issue in the usa.
hey +virtuovice love your videos i was wondering if you ever sold any of your knives or had any you wanted to. thanks
Dr. W- I find the steal on the Mora to be soft, but very easy to sharpen, what is your experience with the Mora and blade edge retention?
He isn't just basing his judgment on that comparison of those two knives, he has many of the blades in both 3V and A2 and has seen a consistent difference in heavier bevels in the 3V blades. It is always possible he is reporting a false positive but considering the amount of blades he has used, in order for that to be likely the population variance in regards to geometry would have to be huge.
@virtuovice you should try the Kephart!!!
Do you have any thoughts/experiences on their CruWear steel?
Telling wako boit blades like telling your grandmother how to bake cakes
The A2 *may* have been faster cutting, but how long will it hold it's edge when you're chopping? No pun intended, but we're splitting hairs between the two, IMHO. I love your vids, but this leaves some large gray areas in the testing. That new knife is sweet though, great choice!
Thank you!
What silky saw blade do you recommend for general firewood processing?
Hello friend! Really nice vid! I wish we could seat at a bar table a discuss the difference betwen both steels. Really interesting results! And 3V is much more expensive. I'm looking to buy a bark river bravo 1 and I have a question for you friend: What do you think about these wood handles? Are they better os worse than micarta or g10? THX a lot!
G10 is substantially heavier than Micarta or wood. And G10 is much colder in winter than the other materials. So I don't like G10 at all. Wood is the warmest and the lightest. If you don't live in a country where the temperature in winter doesn't go as low as water freezes, Micarta is satisfying for toughness. But for anti-coldness, beauty, light weight, wood is nicer. Thanks.
virtuovice humm interesting! Do you think that wood is tuff as micarta? Thx again!
Thales Rezende Micarta is always tougher than any woods. You have to know that wood can bend/detach, or crack. Instead wood is always lighter than Micarta. Wood burl has the highest probability to take troubles regardless if it is stabilized or not. The toughest wood is Desert Ironwood (not burl) and Bocote in my experience. Thanks.
+virtuovice i like bark river knives but is lil expensive for me..what about marttini knives or helle really i need your opinion.Just info for you check Skalidakis knives is very old knives company and have traditional techniques..
asiatic black bears, b/c not the biggest of bears, that they are not dangerous, so untrue, all bears are extremely small, when they attack a man, there is much fear, and they will kill. listen to virtuo voice, bears are extremely important for the environment out in the wild
Have you tried a test on the m4 steel
In my case Bark River white compound works very well after Chosera #3000 stone on 3V. I feel like Bark River black compound is coarse but weak against 3V. Thanks.
Hi, i've a question about this test; is this experiment valid on bravo 1.5 geometry only or for other geometry too in your experience expecially in little bark river model where there's a2 and 3v options? thx
My recent experiences on Bravo1, Gunny and Fox River show me that current 3V geometry is thin and the same as A2 geometry. They seem like having given up fat geometry on 3V as they temper 3V HRC 59 the same as A2. The early 3V was HRC60~61 and its geometry was ridiculously thick, but now it is okay. Thanks.
I disagree with the a2. every a2 bark river I have had is very very soft. I broke a a2 bark river on white pine under very light use
shannonandsheila1 look at my profile here on you tube and there is video proof.
Thank you virtuovice san!
Great video. Thank you for putting this up. I recently purchased a Bark River Bravo 1 LT in 3V, and there is no micro-bevel -- it's pure convex all the way. I don't think they're putting micro-bevels on these knives today. Also, most people today are favoring 3V over A2. A2 can perhaps claim a little better toughness; but 3V also has acceptable toughness, and much better edge retention and resistance to corrosion. I don't think there is a need for a difference in blade geometry between those two steels.
very interesting, and now what is your recommendations about steels? 3V or A2?
3V is recommended because it is substantially harder, tougher, and more rust resistant.
@@virtuovice thanks, now this geometry issues about 3V is not viable? They solved all geometry issues in 3V models?
@@Zeratsu Currently the 3V doesn't have the geometry issue. They are now confident in its steel property.
@@virtuovice ok, now i don't have any reason to consider A2 version. Thanks
There is more to steel selection and profile than just sharpness for an "all around" knife. I would pick CPM 3V because of its superior corrosion resistance and toughness for use in the outdoors. I would pick A2 for indoor work or non-survival situations. Depending on its the tempering treatment A2 will be more brittle than 3V too.
Finally, you can easily destroy the proper heat treatment of a blade by doing gross re-profiling if you don't know what you are doing.
@faultroy Beckers use 1095CV... also known as 1095 Cro-Van.. also known as not f**king 1095 and I wish they would rename it or stop calling it that, because it's a far superior steel. It has gone by many names, such as 50100B or Carbon V. Don't think twice about batoning it.
@faultroyPlease don't think my use of "f**king" was attaching you, just that I feel they sell themselves short by calling it that. I've seen that post, and have been a member on bladeforums back when that was posted and saw a few other discussions on it pop up over time too. From what I gather from ALL the discussion, it is an improvement. But even in the post you selected we see "...it is a better steel than just straight 1095." Plus, many feel (myself included) that their heat treat is good as well which IMO is the biggest factor.
Given both of those things, I'm just surprised that in a knife market saturated with misleading hype, they would just call the steel what they do. Also, after Camillus stopped producing it the reports of failures dropped drastically. Given that this is a well known, commonly bought knife that many average users and dummies will abuse, and it holds up as well as it does, I do think it's a pretty safe knife to baton, relatively.
I love this guy
What is the brand name of saws do you have?
I have Silky Gomboy 210 and 240. The 210 is recommended for outdoor fire making.
Is there any variance from the factory on edge geometry?
Awesome video !!
Wich is better steel? A2 or CPM 3V? And why?
I understood CPM-3V is substantially harder and tougher and more rust resistant than A2 after a lot of practice. You should take the 3V over A2 if possible.
Many many thanks buddy, mi lookimg forward yo buy a bark river, and I se you great videos know. After 7 years, you still happy with them?
Omg KANETSUNE ! love it
@James Bet his English is better than your Japanese.
I think he is Korean Japanese.
Bet James isn't posting videos in Japanese to a Japanese audience on a Japanese website ;)
Hey im korean hello from 🇰🇷
One thing can be said: Bark River knives are what the Gentleman Survivalist would carry
Well that's like, ya know, your opinion man.
Well, that's like, ya know, the prevailing impression
Man
Once again. your opinion.
240mm medium teeth.
Should I consider the LT version or the regular?
The 5.5mm thickness should be considered only for powerful wood splitting. Otherwise the 4mm thickness makes the ideal convex geometry of Bark River. The thinner than 4mm thickness needs a micro bevel. The 4mm thickness is their standard one.
@@virtuovice So it looks like you are recommending the LT version which is 0.154" (3.91mm) thick. The standard one would actually be the thicker one, either 0.237" (6mm) or 0.213" (5.4mm). Can you explain why the thinner one needs a micro bevel?
@@Metalhead-4life Bark River's bevel geometry is in a single arc convex whose radius is very large and the 4mm thickness makes the right apex angle like 30 degrees inclusive in many cases. In case of a high bevel like Bravo knives the 5.5mm thickness can make the right apex angle. But the 3mm thickness of Fox River LT makes too small an apex angle though the Gunny LT makes a right angle because of its low bevel grind. In conclusion their geometries are the same regardless of their bevel height, so you need to chose the right thickness for the bevel height when you don't like a micro bevel or too large an apex angle. Thanks.
@@virtuovice Thanks for the info. Do you still recommend the A2 over the 3v?
I have been trying to find a Bravo 1.25 in anything other than A2 steel for about 1.5 years. It looks like Bark River is too busy making other knives than to do a run of their best selling knives. (Bravo)
@@Metalhead-4life I prefer 3V to A2 now because 3V is tougher and more rust resistant than A2. I remember Bark River announced the handle of coming batches of Bravo knives other than Bravo1 is going to be a little longer. I think you should wait for it. Thanks.
Is it Bravo A2 or 3V they gets rust in wet?
+sh .black 3V is semi-stainless. A2 isn't.
hey ! says the Canadian
you convince me i will go a2
great vid
Save 7.5 minutes of your life and skip ahead to 7:30 for info per video title.
ASTRAL THIEF you’re obviously not a knife person.
A2 is ok if not in wet area for extended outings 3 v is way better hard use knife this is from a outdoorsman now of 70 yrs of age tired of cleaning rust off carbon steel likea2
sorry bud but Waco has done many reviews and I trust his opinion.
See Video: June 29, 2011
How many deer does your a2 knife get through? I know In other videos you've said 4-5 deer for 3v.
It's 2 with A2.
It's 1 or less with low grade steels like O1 or VG10.
virtuovice thank you very much for the response!