What Led to the COLLAPSE of Greenwich VIllage’s Freewheelin’ Folk Scene? 1960's
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- What Led to the COLLAPSE of Greenwich VIllage’s Freewheelin’ Folk Scene?
Imagine one night you head over to your favorite coffeehouse The Gaslight Cafe where you catch the end of a poetry reading when a young singer gets up on stage with his guitar and a funny contraption around his neck holding a harmonica. He introduces himself as Bob Dylan. He begins playing a Woody Guthrie song in a style that is unique and captivating, sounding both old and modern simultaneously. You sit and listen mesmerized.
The waitress, Mary, comes over and asks if you need another coffee and suggests you check out another club, ‘The Bitter End’ to catch a performance of her trio; Peter, Paul and Mary.
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I was there then, I remember. Nothing lasts forever. It was a great little island surrounded by reality.
I was there too as a young folk guitarist.. I knew many of the people mentioned here and played backup guitar for several of them. In 1968 I moved to L.A. to make my fortune in music. I didn't get rich but I did OK.
Denny Doherty of the Mammas and Poppas had a simple answer why the folk scene died: "The Beatles. The second we heard them we knew we were done."
That sounds about right!
Exactly. Lol they even turned The Grateful Dead
That is so true a year later in 1965 Bob Dylan would go electric which got him booed at the Newport Folk Festival
Yup. Books and documentaries about 60s girl groups and/or the Brill Bldg say the same.
The Beatles copied the Philly sound they heard on records brought across the Atlantic to the port of Liverpool by a sailor friend
When you said “ the place is still there, the mood and feeling is gone “ rang so many bells for me.
When it becomes about the money...and not the music...the music dies. I am 67 and have witnessed the ups and downs...the ebbs and flows of culture and music...each leaves an enduring impact. When its about the art..its beautiful.
thanks for posting this. i was there. Pete Seeger was my music teacher at D.C.S. and I traveled with Van on many trips to Woodstock, where I used to live. At 82, I stilll sing those folk songs we sang back then.
Awesome thank you
Interesting a fellow dcs alumni! Pete was long gone when I attended 10 years latter but is was still a special place. I love the TH-cam video of a dcs class sitting in on an episode of Pete’s pbs show.
Keep Singing 😊
I remember seeing Pete Seger on the stage listening to Dylan play and watching Seger's face fall as he felt the folk scene had been betrayed by Dylan. Some will stand steadfast in their scene, others will evolve.
@robj2704 Don't forget Seeger's day job was social change, and Dylan pushed that well with a Noble Prize as a reference. Seeger was a communist who liked to play pure and elitist.
🎶 Those were the days,
my friend, we thought
they'd never end 🎶
- sang Mary Hopkins,
on The Beatles-owned Apple Records
@@MrEdWeirdoShow
Paul McCartney produced Mary Hopkins' album at Apple Records 🍏
@@LucyLennon20 sort of ironic that you quoted a song written by Paul McCartney on this video - given - apparently, The Beatles killed the village.
@@dizzylizzy7582
Paul McCartney didn't write that song. It's an old Russian folk tune that Gene Raskin wrote the first English language words to it.
Yep, and they did. ❤
Denver native here. Jack Kerouac, Alan Ginsburg, Ken Kesey and others were known in the Denver Beatnik scene in the late '50's. They spent time in the coffee house scenes in the cheap rent district of Denver's East Colfax and near the Colorado University campus in Boulder. When I started high school in 1961, I hung out with malcontent outsiders. We snuck outside to smoke and gathered on weekend nights at coffee houses like "The Green Spider" or hustled a jug of cheap wine from certain liquor stores who knew us well.... That was in the early 1960''s.
Great memories!
I grew up "Out on The Island" and started high-school in '65! That's when you could take the LIRR to The Village for a buck and hang out for a lark smoking ciggis and pretend to be cool! Vietnam, hard drugs and a family disaster had me light out for CU Boulder in'69 where I soon encountered The Sunshine Makers! Graduated and have been on the road and trail ever since! It's still the big beautiful world of wonderful people that I didn't really appreciate when our jr-high english teachers would play Dylan as examples of lyric poetry!
But now I know!
I lived in Greenwich Village in thr mid 1980's. It was a far cry from the place depicted here in the 60's. Many of the clubs and bars were still there, but there were no poetry readings nor any folk bands playing. There was a small circle of performers with guitars who played, but no one led any movements, and there was nothing political about any of it. I even sang and played accoustic at open mic night a few times at the Bitter End and the Red Lion. That world back in the 60's was long gone by the 80's, which became new wave and hair bands by then. In fact by the mid 70's, the whole music scene had shifted to the east village and St Marks, CBGB, etc.
Even Washington Square Park in the middle Village had became a rundown dump overtaken by drug dealers.
The Village today is simply a tourist trap with cafes for Europeans to sit around and drink Moccachinos and order Aperol Spritzers. The world has moved on. The only thing carrying the rich history of this place forward are coffee table books and old postcards. Even the vinyl records have become just wall decorations. Most music played on the radio today doesn't even have a guitar or keyboard instrument ( other than a synthesizer) playing the music. It's just garbage lyrics and throwaway primitive nursery rhyme structured pap sung by a person who is more interested in performing to earn the money for a new Pleasure yacht than expressing anything from his/her/its heart...
Very insightful, thank you for sharing! Yes I agree about the lack of instruments being played in today’s music. It’s unbearable.
But how do you really feel? An impassioned takedown, largely accurate, of the latter-day transition of an iconic American neighborhood and cultural scene.
You are so right about that whole village scene.I got to see a bit of it in 1963. I was only 10 at the time. My father knew a restaurant owner who knew Paul Colby who owned the Bitter End. We wound up going there to see Peter Paul and Mary. I was confined to the table with ginger ale and if I had to piss my father had to accompany me. It's a cool memory though and PPM were great.I've always felt lucky to have had that oppertunity.
A longer comment than even I often make, but extremely well stated and you hit the proverbial nail on the head
Yes, nothing compares to those days, the 80s and 90s were still corporate rock decades even in the clubs, ie Ritz, Trax, Limelight etc. but again, in the 90s things began to thrive in places like Sidewalk that only recently closed before the pandemic, now others have taken its place my friend. Well, many friends while not quite as talented as what came before them still go out and play every day whenever they can for little or no $, many still just passing the basket around. It may be a half a dozen different places in the lower East side. And just as many again in Brooklyn. With the price of rent, it's hard to support live music and stay in business on an intimate scale.
I lived at 79 MacDougal Street, between Bleeker and Houston, 7th floor walk up. I sublet the apartment from a friend of mine we worked at the NYSE on Wall Street. I walked around the West Village and saw many music scenes. The Mothers were at the Cafe Wha? The Bitter End, Village Gate, and other haunts. Jimi Hendrix, James Taylor, Peter Tork, John Sebastian, Steven Stills, and others were visible on the street and in Washinton Square Park. I lived there from June of 67 thru 69. What a coming of age for me, frequently going to the East Village to the Fillmore East to see so many great bands. The Dead, Allman Brothers, CSNY, Elton John, Poco, among other. Hunter College also provided up and coming groups
Cream and Hendrix among them. Amazing memories for me.
Lucky guy....
Don't forget John Mayall
Amazing
you were so lucky to see artists develop and start out
That's f'in insane
I was born in NJ , my dad worked for Otis elevator- he took the train to the city to work in Hells kitchen as a new employee in 1960- in 1969 we moved upstate to Clifton Park just north of albany- my dad told me he went all around NYC from 1960 to 1969 - when he came back in the 1980s to visit it was just a shell of the good old days - my old man worked for 48 yrs for Otis they used to be a great company- he raised 7 kids w his paycheck and put a roof over our heads- miss you dad
Love the Otis elevators in old buildings.
That's cool that your dad worked for Otis Elevator. That manOtis was a genius.Why? Because he invented the system for slowing down a runaway elevator and delivering it safely to the ground floor. Bless him for raising 7 kids.(I was an only child). Now what elevators have to do with music I simply don't know. But wait, I just thought of Elevator Music. Everyone loves that. (Oh of course). Best to you User, I always enjoy reading your comments.
💘
@@markmoriarty7388Otis demonstrated his elevator with the safety device in Lower Manhattan circa 1852. The cables were rope wire like that used on the Brooklyn Bridge used later. The wires were driven by a steam power plant in the basement.
@luislaplume That's interesting info Luis, you are certainly very knowledgable on this subject.Iknew Otis had started in NYC, but did not realize it had been as early as 1852. As you pointed out that would have been pre Brooklyn Bridge.
This documentary is a keeper for me. What a compelling era so many of us came of age in - I mean ALL of us. Wow. The Blues were there, and so was I.
Glad to hear it!
That 1st reply is a keeper for me!
Phenomenal Video. Thank you. At that time, I walked those streets every day of the week. My tuition at NYU was $2K/yr. My rent for a SOHO loft on W.Broadway and Prince started at $135./month upped four years to $250. I supported myself on a part-time, eighteen hour minimum wage job and went to school full-time. Everyone in the W. Village was an actor, or singer, or painter, musician, sculptor...and at the same time a part-time waiter, cab driver, security guard, typist, bartender. And there were junkies everywhere;Downtown was dangerous as fuck. The performers who passed the hat around in those venues believed in themselves and their work and a better world to come so they were willing to put up with the dark and dirty and dangerous, but affordable city. The apartments and lofts were full of artists and musicians then. As time went on they were replaced with hedge fund managers.
Incredible! Bet you got a better education then too. Thanks for the compliment 🙏 glad you enjoyed it!
It was explained to me that apart from shifting musical fashions the scene collapsed because basket houses’ rents skyrocketed as the Village received more and more attention and interest. By the mid to late 60’s selling the occasional cup of coffee to audiences primarily focused on experiencing performances was no longer economically sustainable.
actually it started in Manhattan, but the Byrds took it to Laurel Canyon and da rest is muzacal history. westcoastboy
@@johnorgan3yes, the music and many of the people moved to the west coast, Laurel Canyon.
Rents skyrocketed then. Rents are despicable now. Everywhere.
@@romeysiamese6662 Agreed... It was economics pure and simple....once a neighborhood gets national attention, many people want to move there and then gentrification happens. Same thing happened in the Haight Ashbury neighborhood in SF.
In the spring of1965 The Paul Butterfield Blues Band shook things up at the Cafe Au Go Go.
The Blues were never the same.
They and the Allman Bros. Band sounded so much alike. Perhaps they all were part of a sound of the times.
I remember spending a lot of time in the Village as a young teenager 1964-67. I remember seeing many of the names of these musicians on the club marquees. I knew it was the place to be, even at this young age. Thanks for the memories!
Very cool and you’re welcome!
From 2003 to 2009 I lived in North Beach San Francisco, where the beats had bloomed in the 60s. Ferlinghetti was still alive along with a number of grandbaby beats. I was painting canvases and writing poetry, and found kinship with the many bohemian poets and painters still live in the dream while hanging out at the Trieste coffee shop. The music scene was not as thriving but the spirit of the 50s and 60s was quite alive otherwise. I imagine it will continue to bubble up forever from subterranean realms of free, spirited, bohemian creativity.
And the food, the wonderful food.
Met Kerouac in Florida in 1968 at Haslem's Bookstore. The Henry Miller section. He was a nice guy but I was in awe.
@@marknewton6984 cool. 😎
Greenwich Village in the early sixties will be one of the first destinations I program my time machine to travel towards.
Right there with you
even earlier, with bebop happening! @@freewheelingideas
@@BasVossenRight! Circa 1948 til 1954.
@@luislaplume8261 as described in On the Road by Kerouac.
Time Machines are for old people...
They are ion sale are WalMart this month.
Buy one get one free in may
I was there working as a porter I worked in the gaslight and lived in the village. ❤
So cool!
How 'bout some anecdotes from those days?
@@strangersname I was washing up in the green room of the Gaslight and everyone was off to drink. Jack Elliots' D 28 herringbone was just sitting there in an old brown gibson case. I may have taken it out and played Jesse Fullers "San Francisco Bay Blues" sans footadiddle and Eric Anderson 'Thirsty Boots' but wouldn't swear to it in a court of law.
@@Lonesome-y6w And I betcha you have a thousand more!
Every scene eventually evaporates. Enjoy it while it lasts. Don't waste energy trying to defend it from change.
Exactly - it's like what they used to call "a happening". Everything changes. Enjoy the special eras while they last.
WORD!
Nothing wrong with going back and enjoying it again though 😊
like MTV
There’s change and then there’s just bullshit fuckery. We who lived there know.
It was early 1961 after reading Woody Guthrie's book "Bound for Glory" that 19 yr.old Bob Dylan left Minnesota and traveled to Brooklyn, N.Y. to meet Woody. Arlo Guthrie answered the door and told Dylan his dad was in the hospital. It wasn't in upstate N.Y. as this narrator stated it was Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital in Morris Plains, N.J. Woody had cked himself in not knowing what was wrong with him, he couldn't control his muscles. After being diagnosed with Huntington disease his family thought it best to stay in that hospital. Not much was known about that disease. The best part of the story is Dylan sat with Woody and sang and played every Woody Guthrie song he knew.
That is so lovely
@@balice806 I once was in Arlo Guthrie's Fan Club. He and his children, Sara and Abe Guthrie keep Woody Guthrie's spirit alive with the Guthrie family band. 🎶 ☮️ 🎶
Bob Dylan was 19 in January 1961.
@@bobkat1911 Dylan was one of the many "war babies" ( i.e. Born during WWII before the baby boom after the soldiers returned home) who created that early music scene. The war babies experienced a totally different early childhood than the prosperity that the Baby Boomers were born into. Up until 1949 (when I turned 5 yr old), my Bronx family and neighbors were still using food ration books and ate veggies from our Victory gardens. I remember loosing my first tooth while grocery shopping with my Mom, and laid down on the empty sugar shelves. Butter was still rationed. The Beatles were all young children during the bombing of London. I could go on and on. I am a firm believer that very early childhood makes an imprint on who we become as adults. And that the deprivations of WWII shaped the musical artists of the early '60's music scene
@@LucyLennon20Maybe you know that Arlo puts on the Woody Guthrie festival in his father's birthplace of Okemah, Oklahoma every summer. And here in Tulsa, we have the Woody Guthrie museum.
I'm glad to have seen a video that made the distinction between folk, folk revivalists, and singer-songwriters. Many people conflate them to such a degree that anyone playing an acoustic guitar becomes labelled as a "folkie". Thank you!
You’re welcome!
Buddy Holly headed east to NYC and lived there, in Greenwich Village, with his young bride Maria Elena, until he died on that storied tour in winter 1959. Pretty wild to think about. Mr. Lubbock goes to Folkville
Buddy Holly was a total visionary, a real free thinker. He was just getting started. Who knows what he would have done?
@@michaelcraig9449 Agreed, and he was nervous that Rock was nearing the end of its run! Surely he'd have realized otherwise, but he was already looking ahead, already asking okay, 'what next,' which would have been Taupe Records with Marie Elena, though it's hard seeing that being a lifelong thing for him.
Holly would've had a lifelong career, of that there's no doubt in my mind. He wasn't Jimmy Clanton, Bobby Rydell, Bobby V, those guys were left in the velour jackets drinking chocolate malts while the Brits invaded, but Holly was a writer, and he was unbelievably prolific.
The saddest thing to me is that I think Buddy would STILL be alive today. That's how early we lost him. Imagine how much things have changed since 1959, and yet he'd still be out there, maybe even playing and active during his final chapters, likely living many more years, longevity was on his side, and that generation has been unbelievably long-lived. So thinking of all that time he lost makes it hard.
I bet he'd have dabbled into some of the folk Greenwich stuff, likely abandoning the orchestra backing once he realized that rock wasn't going anywhere. He was too much of a writer to simply hang it up and run a label, I think. He wasn't like many of the kids who were on the rock&roll express train in that first era, the guys who didn't really write, didn't really play, didn't really have much songwriting diversity, etc. Most were left hanging when the Beatles came around, and some experienced minor nostalgia resurgences in the 70s-80s, and even more tried their hand eventually at country & gospel, like Dion, Conway Twitty (who was an early rock guy first), and scores of others.
The decades after were not kind to many of those early acts, unfortunately. Del Shannon wasn't the only one not to make it to past the first signs of old age. It's sad. But Holly would've prevailed, I think. Some did. I even think Valens would've found his niche after sliding down the charts after the Beatles. Perhaps Valens would've grown closer to those Latin roots as the landscape changes around him. We will never know.
He lived at the on 5th ave in the Brevoort apartment building about a block north of Washington Square, I believe.
@@hirampriggott1689 no kidding, too cool. It's so wild to picture Buddy Holly in Greenwich Village...just because he's so ingrained with Texas and the Crickets there, Jerry Allison & crew. He just seems froze in time in Clovis, NM, recording with Petty. I didn't hear of his time in the village until much later, and just found it absolutely fascinating. He wasn't simply that Texas rockabilly trope, that he moved there, married Marie Elena...it all surprised me. I think Holly had a very, very interesting life ahead and he would've got up to all kinds of interesting music.
He played with Caroline Hester back in Clovis, NM. Later she would sign with Columbia Records and hired Bob Dylan to play harmonica on her disk. While recording with her John Hammond signed him to CBS.
There were comedians as well.
Lenny THANK YOU
I was there too- the beats left, Hippies came along, but drugs took over. The folk scene dispersed except for lonely few, like Pete Seeger. Rents rose sharply. The Vietnam war. Hard Drugs. Dylan never really left. Still owns a brownstone on MacDougall Street- for all these years
All true, I guess. NYU became the major land owner of Greenwich Village and the East Village. Adios low rents, for venues, independent coffee houses and people w/o conventional jobs. Replaced by an influx of dormitories and students with other interests. Musically, the early 70's was for mega-big-venue music, not intimate. By the time small venue music returned it was Punk and New Wave, to Max's, CBGB's, Peppermint Lounge etc.
Bob Weir said that it was the influx of hard drugs such as amphetamines that ruined the San Francisco scene, along with the "invasion" of big money.
Umm . It’s the Effed up socialist governing body that did in SF
Hipsters ate your village.
"... thirty dollars pays your rent on Bleeker street..." from the song Bleeker Street by Simon & Garfunkel from their 1964 album Wednesday Morning, 3 A.M. Today (2024) it costs $3500 for a one bedroom apartment on Bleeker Street.
Sad reality of modernity
Well to be fair, in 1964, $30 was equivalent to $300 now.
Even accounting for inflation that’s ten times higher
Inflation in a lifetime is unreal.
@@theresewalters1696
Because the money is unreal. 🤷
I grew up in NYC and lived through the folk scenne as well as the punk rock scene of the 70's. I moved to Seattle in the late 80''s and had a similar feeling about the music scene there. It was fantastic. But nothing lasts forever.
Cool
Maybe the magic of music does last forever. It knows no limits, but humans chase it in imagination.
The Village came full-circle when Chas Chandler of the Animals discovered Jimi Hendrix in a small venue and took him to the UK, where he made it big. Later, Jimi returns to set up Electric Ladyland Studios.
Yep it’s still there.
Returns to the UK to die in the same apartment that mama Cass also died in
⭕ @sitluxetluxfuit4481 ⭕ that's ⭕ another ⭕ full ⭕ circle ⭕
Wow, What about the Fugs ? , the Mothers of Invention ? Paterson's Alan Ginsberg's poetry readings.. it was none stop ! Those were the days ( until a Vietcong bullet took out my left lung. )
Were there ever any anti war protests in the village or was that more of a west coast thing? Sorry about you loosing the lung and welcome home
@@lemontier I became a Corpsman with the Marines in 67 , the Village was getting more hippie than protest , but like everywhere the war divided everyone. I decided to become a Medic because I didn't want to kill but once you're in the middle of hell you do what ever it takes.
Thank you for your service!
Once upon a time, there were good times..
I loved growing up in NY ...
I played bass and was a music director for over 30 years, so I'm a big fan of this era. I am also a big fan of documentaries and this video doc, although short in my opinion, was very well put together: Both educational and enjoyable.
Thank you 🙏
Arriving in the Village in 1974, I found some of the spirit still alive. My favorite haunt was Kenney's Castaways and I would go there every Friday after work and every Saturday night. Had the pleasure of giving a poetry reading there. They are still open and featuring new bands. I loved those days.
Was Kennedy's Castaways a folk music venue or only for poetry?
Never heard that club mentioned in books or articles that write about folk clubs.
Very cool! Thanks for the insights!
On my first trip in '78 my first stop was Kenny's Castaways. Stayed in the roach-infested Martha Washington Hotel on 14th St. Good times.
Nah. The folk scene as a force was done by ‘74.
Back in the 70s I played Kenny's Csstaways quite often with Dan Gunnip and Steve Preu. Kenny's was actually the very first Gay/Transvestite club in NYC. Of course it was not called Kenny's back then in the late 19th century. I was given a tour of the basement area and the cell like private rooms. VERY creepy, but a cool club to hang out at.
The same thing that led to the collapse of Laurel Canyon & Venice beach, Money. when a neighborhood or area becomes Hip and Cool, it becomes out of bounds for anyone except for the monied.
The Doors, CSNY
Same thing happened to the Haight too.
Ybor City😢
Yeah, look at the East End. 😂
happened to Amsterdam.
Great video. Recently watched a Laurel Canyon video. I am amazed at folk/rock history and evolution. I was only in my early teens when the Beatles found America, but listened to, and loved most of the groups you mentioned. I was too young (immature) to understand the relationships between singers and groups, but you put it in great perspective. I am really amazed at Peter Tork who appeared at both Greenwich village and Laurel Canyon. I had no idea he had such crredentials. I always thought he was just one of 4 guys who showed up at a Hollywood casting call. Go figure. Now as I look back on those years, "it all makes sense". How in the world could you ever explain that to someone from GenZ without having lived through it! I must say that now I'm kinda glad to be "that old" Thank you.
You’re very welcome!
Tork wanted to learn guitar so he went touring with Jimi Hendrix. Serious teacher there.
I just watched the Laurel Canyon docs
@@maryroberts2099
Can you post the links to them?
Much of the early sixties folk music was inspired by the optimism of the John Kennedy presidency. Young people felt that societal change ( civil rights , etc...) was now possible.
But with Kennedy's assassination , that optimism began to fade quickly and so did the energy of the folk scene
Good point! Hadn’t thought of that.
Kennedys' death had very little effect on youth culture. JFK approved the November 1963 coup in Vietnam, which led to the death of President Diem, and three weeks later Kennedy was dead. The Vietnam War was the event that changed youth culture, and America, and the downward spiral the war produced never stopped. America is paying today for its' colossal sins against Southeast Asians and Vietnam veterans, who were made scapegoats for the war by self-righteous Americans.
Yes. Yes. Yes. JFK brought in an era that was never repeated. Everybody felt such optimism and that things were only going to go up and get better and better. With his assassination that ended. And Bobby MLK.
I am glad you put that era into a national context. Folk music made us feel good, but we were becoming aware that we needed to do more than sing about injustices to ourselves and others. Many of us volunteered for different groups and causes; we just knew we could make a better world. Then a little nobody killed JFK, whom we admired, even loved. Overnight, we were taught a gut wrenching lesson about futility, and nothing was ever really the same.
@@emilykrahn3185 Yep. And of course, there was VietNam.
Just for accuracy, it is accepted that Peter, Paul and Mary were manufactured by Albert Grossman, who auditioned singers, as he was looking to cash in on folk music. The arrangement of "House of the Rising Sun" that the Animals used was Dave Van Ronk's arrangement that Bob Dylan took and recorded before he could, much to Van Ronk's displeasure.
Thanks for the info on PP&M. That explains the slicker sound of that trio. My friend and I listened to The Lovin' Spoonful' one night in the Village. They always struck me as another manufactured groups, like the Monkees
Well Albert Grossman did a good thing with PPM. Even if it was money motivated.
Read "We Never Knew Just What It Was," memoir of the Chad Mitchell Trio, Gonzaga U college harmonizers brought to NYC (by a priest) to make records & money.
Fascinating picture of the music business at the time -- including their music director Milt Okun ( Belafonte connected) also was sorting out arrangements for Grossman's Peter, Paul & Mary, individual performers who didn't harmonize together as naturally as the mitchells, but were put together with image and marketing in mind .
Okun had secured recording rights for "blowing in the wind," but Mitchell Trio's record company (Kapp) would not release it as a single because it had "how many deaths will it take..." in the lyrics, which they thought would never sell.
So Okun taught the song to PP&M... Their huge hit made a brief window for protest as "pop" ... with Dylan's songwriting as "folk"... just as the British skiffle groups turned into blues and rock bands bringing electrified black roots music back to the USA...
en route to folk-rock, psychedelic rock, and hot new studio production technologies in the late-sixties record industry , far from the simple sound of a guitar and a rack-mounted harmonica.
Hi. My name is Eliot Wien from NYC. Great Documentary, but you forgot one popular Folk Artist, David Peel & The Lower East Side. David Peel was a street musician thay alway's played in Washington Square Park in Greenwich Village. Danny Fields worked for Elektra Records and signed David Peel. David Peel's first album was entitled "HAVE A MARIJUANA" and was recorded Live in Washington Square Park. David's second album was entitled "THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION". When John Lennon & Yoko Ono came to NYC they were introduced to David Peel. John and David truly hit it off with each other, and John Lennon signed David Peel to The Beatles APPLE RECORDS. David recorded his third album entitled "THE POPE SMOKES DOPE" produced by John Lennon & Yoko Ono. On that album David Peel had a song entitled "THE BALLAD OF BOB DYLAN" where David sings the words Bob Dylan, Robert Zimmerman! Bob Dylan was not too happy about that, and asked John Lennon not to release that song. John Lennon replied...If David Peel wants that song on his album, then it will be on his album!
I was in high school 66-67 in Astoria (the same one Suze Rotolo attended) and went to Washington Square every Sunday to hear the music. There were a lot of "hanger outers" there, one was David Peel. He would be banging on a bucket and singing "Kill for Peace." When the banana peel myth hit, I saw him walk across the park holding a massive papier-mache banana on a stick, high above his head. He was one of the crazies of Washington Square. Miss those days.
One of my favorite albums in my youth "Have a marijuana" lots of fun.
oh yeah! I had forgotten that guy. Great sounds. Make you happy to come home nearby.
I was an art student at Pratt Institute, 1960-4, and ran into Bob Dylan in one of the cafes, with his big polka dot shirt and entourage! As an artist (and Welfare worker), I lived in the East Village on 1st Street, off Second Avenue. It was a great place to live, my 3 room apartment/studio was only $65 a month...thank you rent control!
What a deal!
That's the place my heart belongs to.True Bohemian spirit.
Yes it was a great place for bohemian spirits!
Bob Dylan ripped off old folk songs and claimed he wrote them. He was not a very good guitar player. His whiny voice is brutal. What a ham he was.
@@AnnHogan-b9u Thank God there's a bright ray of light to show the way!
A nice overview of important cultural history that too few really understand, very well and clearly presented, the odd factual glitch not withstanding (Woody was in hospitals in Brooklyn and Queens during this period, not upstate NY and Suze Rotolo's name spelling was just a personal affectation, was always pronounced 'Suzie'). Dylan's iconic hat is his personal homage to his Village professional origins in the 'basket houses' where it collected his first earnings. Incredibly, 60 years later, a number of these luminaries are not only still living but - following George Burns famous line 'retire to what' - still performing: Dylan, Judy Collins, Csrolyn Hester, Peter Yarrow and Noel (Paul) Stookey, and Paul Simon among others. It was remarkable to see 83 year old Joan Baez and 92 year old 'Ramblin'' Jack Elliott playing and dancing on stage in SF just 8 weeks ago! 'history on the hoof'.
Thank you 🙏
Couple of years ago, my friend and I strolled through 'the Village' and I reminisced of the mid-sixties when I listened to my Dylan LPs and reel-to-reel albums while sitting on my bunk bed in Southeast Asia serving my Country. Over the years since my tour of duty, my thinking has been shaped by all the artists who came through the Village.
Thank you for your service! 🙏
Good video. What you didn't mention was how much the rent went up, making it unfeasible for artists to stay there....Gentrification!
In today's blood sucking economy, can you image what the prices of an apartment would be now ?
Yes, this is something that's almost guaranteed--artists, musicians, writers find a cheap area to live in the city to work on their art. That cheap area gets noticed by media and crowds start coming to hang out with the artists, go to exhibits, readings, concerts, etc. For a while there's an electric, renaissance kind of vibe but then the wealthy come in buying places up and completely changing the area. And the artists, who started it all going have to leave for another cheap area to live. And the formerly exciting, electric neighborhood becomes as boring and bland as the new people moving in.
@@deirdre108Exactly.......but where's a cheap place to live now ? They're living on sidewalks in tents.....A very sad state of affairs we have now.
@@jimdep6542 There don't seem to be any places in the US anymore. I've lived in some of these neighborhoods and always got priced out when they became popular with the rich. Maybe Detroit could help revive itself by encouraging people in the arts to move there. I'm sure there must be some relatively cheap housing in the city. I don't know. It is certainly a sad state of affairs today.
@@deirdre108 I always say....Art is the avant-garde.....of real estate! This is a bigger problem than people know. Where is the art and music scene today? There isn't one. This has affected our entire culture. We don't know emerging artists anymore in America. We don't have any center, no community. There's stuff online but that's no alternative. (You can't go to a party online, for instance.) I think it's really hurt our culture.
This piece was extremely well written. Congrats.👏
Thank you very much! A lot of work so greatly appreciate your positive comments!
Greenwich Village was just a place, the spirit that was there for a long time just went elsewhere.
California Calling: Sunshine and money. (maybe).
I always dig these neighborhoods and their histories. MacDougal St with the Pete Seeger folk scene, The Velvet Underground and Andy Warhol at his loft on St Mark's Place and Max's Kansas City on Broadway & 17th, CBGB in the Bowery with the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, Christopher St & Sheridan Square with Stonewall Inn, Jack Kerouac on Avenue B across from Tomkins Square, the Chelsea Hotel on 23rd. They were all dumpy dive-y gritty neighborhoods back in their heydays, but today you'd never know it. However these locations are still extremely vibrant.
It ended because the young people involved got older, finished school, and moved on with their lives. All good things come to an end, nothing lasts forever, young people remember this.
No, that's not why it ended.
True, but here are always young people wanting to be heard, it's the generations - each one with a different set of values, a different way of rebellion.
1966 - 71 I lived at 205 Prince St. (corner of MacDougal) with my GF Holly Comstock. I was a cokefreak and small time conman and she worked as a Booker for Warhol at the factory. Life was wonderful until in unrelated occurances I got sentenced to 36 months upstate in a facility for 1st timers and Holly blew her brains out during a bad acid trip. Looking back, we could have been the Poster Couple for the Village in the late 60's ..... wonderfully shitty times
As they say, thank you for sharing. Take care ...
Teddy sniffing glue he was twelve years old
Fell from the roof on East Two-nine
Cathy was eleven when she pulled the plug
On twenty six reds and a bottle of wine - Jim Carrol Band "People Who Died"
Yes, the second half of the '60's was pretty awful. Lots of hard drugs and bad acid. The dream had turned into a nightmare
@@macpduff2119 And, the war, the assassinations....
I was living on the lower east side during the late 60's and there was still a buzz going around. Nice video, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! Appreciate the positive feedback 🙏
I am 79. Things change, that is what life is, change.
"arising, abiding, disappearing",
Agreed and not always for the bettet.
What are you listening to -- or playing -- these days? Retired at 65 , I got back into playing music at open mics and jam sessions, and even bought my first fiddle at age 70. Luckily I'm living in a place with a lot of opportunities to make music for no money.
The Floyd Country Store is my musical home. Search for it in TH-cam or with Google just for fun. An old Southwestern Virginia country store that already had a history of local Jam sessions , now owned by a community-minded pair of musicians who have spun off a non-profit music school and more.
No change, no time.
@@petergarayt9634No woman, no Cry...
I love your documentaries! Please make a video on the Haight-Ashbury scene.
Thank you 🙏 That one’s on the list!
@@freewheelingideas Please do Berkeley. That's a place that really has some (long running) History.
Nope we got enough already
I was there during that time as a young folk guitarist and hung out and played backup guitar with many of the people mentioned. In 1968 I moved to L.A. and live in Peter Tork's house for awhile. We had shared a dingy apartment in the Village. He moved to LA and got lucky being hired to be a Monkee.I stayed at his place for several weeks until I found my own place.
This is amazingly complete AND enjoyable!! Will be sharing.
Awesome, thank you!
My auntie was in upstate new york for her ph.d in entomolgy in syracuse college of agriculture amd forestry. She was mesmerize while visiting the village. It was the height of folks and protest songs. In the 60s was also a very exciting decade. The cuban missile crisis and jfk assasination. She saw several of the upcoming stars in folk and rock n roll perform in coffee houses. When the movie midnight cowboy was shown in the philippines she told she saw fred neal perform in coffee houses. When she graduated from her phd woodstock happened. What killed the village was the beatles. And the stars going to california. Motown was ruined also by leaving detroit and going to la
Motown always sucked
Janice Joplin was in Greenwich. For a short time in 64 and then she went back to California
Janis with as “s” !!!
in someway, this video reanimated my feeling of belonging in this era. It's a cathartic experience, a total escape. It's so sad that we don't have spaces like this anymore, who lives for the art, who gives the audience the poetic sense of life.
Its so melancholic to think that revolutions doesnt last forever, and the only thing we keep its the memories from the people who lived it, giving us, the curious and exploring people, nothing to emerge but the virtual experience.
Bonafide art movement.
It wasn't a collapse, it was gone with the wind.
This TH-cam channel is amazingly great at portraying what can be considered one of the most talked-about times in American history. As a kid who grew up in the 70s, the advent of the music and the recording industry cemented those times in our hearts like no other, and still affect our hearts like no other. It's great to hear about them in more depth that the so-called 'older generation' was ever willing to admit they ever happened. Thanks to all at the Freewheeling channel!
You’re welcome and thank you for the kind words 🙏
What never made sense to me was why it was okay for some of the blues guys like Muddy Waters or Sonny Boy Williamson to "plug in" at the Newport Folk Festival but Bob Dylan couldn't! Why the "double standard"?
Blues went electric earlier than folk. Only the white liberals complain liberally.
his "fans" didn't want him to change... some people felt betrayed
@@keithdevereux4046 But I thought the "folk" festival meant everybody was supposed to perform "unplugged"!
WOW !!!
You got my attention.
I Enjoyed every minute.
Kinda like some time travel back through the years that I had already lived and loved.
It's all in my collection and I listen to random play every day to the old and the not so old.
My favorites may include everything but love the "50's, '60's and early '70's the most.
Awesome glad you’re here! Enjoy a little time travel.
It was also an era where jazz seemed like a vibrant, integral part of the city's cultural life. 52nd street and Harlem were wall to wall with music venues where the last generation of people not captivated by television would hang out most nights of the week.
Awesome, Thanks for sharing!
Monk! Bird! Brubeck!😮
Grew up near Los Angeles, I participated in the Sunset Blvd street party happening every night in 1965-69. Clubs opened there, had the Byrds, the Doors, as their house bands, and up from Sunset was Laurel Canyon, a veritable who's who of folk rock musicians, many who were mentioned in the documentary, and who had moved from NYC to Southern California. The stellar universities in and around NYC provided a backdrop to the intellectual movements of poetry, art and literature as well as music. Those influences were notably missing from the Los Angeles/Laurel Canyon Scene, and were also becoming rarer as the 1950's moved into the 1960's. The musicians in the LA Scene made millions, and this includes Bob Dylan, whose motives to change seems to have included lifestyle, as well as artistic freedom. The electrification of musical instruments, and the attraction the music had for a large audience precluded the old folk music, jazz, poetry, art and literature scene. No universities or colleges in Southern California were notable for their art and literature departments. Pop Art, and culture, and music reigned. Something special did die, when the Greenwich Village scene died, and it has never resurfaced. Why? For all the reasons mentioned above, and also, due to the horrific cost of housing and food that first visited NYC in the 1980's. I attended a university in the city, and rents then were above one thousand a month for a small apartment, 3 rooms max. Now, it is four times or more that amount. Los Angeles has lost a vital music scene that existed into the 1980's when housing costs began to multiply. Now it is almost as high as NYC; both the Bay Area of Northern CA and LA County's housing costs are enormous, in part fueled by the advent of the internet industry, whose employees are paid a phenomenal amount of money even just out of college. Our culture, and our industries no longer support an intelligentsia whose commitment to non-commercial artistic creation is paramount, and, our cost of living; housing, food, transportation, medical care, education, and other necessities--can not be obtained on wishful dreams and uncommercial artistic endeavors. Our culture has betrayed some of our finer motives, and in the end, its very citizens.
Great photos, thanks. Collapse is too strong a word. The scene developed. It is remarkable that by 1962, before the Folk scene peaked in the Village, there were folk clubs in just about every major city in the Western World.
An excellent documentary focusing on the late '50s / early '60s Greenwich Village music scene, a transitional time and place in American pop culture, well researched and generously illustrated with rare, intimate photographs and video and audio clips of and by those who were there and who made it all happen, revealing little-known influences on and connections among the players -with narration by an actual human being and no cheeseball background music. An excellent piece of work that could be expanded upon and should be. Thanks and keep it coming ...
Thank you and will do!
Bob first visited Woody soon after he came to NYC in Jan. '61, NOT in upstate NY (or Brooklyn), but in the Greystone Psych. Hospital in Morris Plains, NJ. Woody's illness--Huntington's Disease, a degenerative neurological condition--was poorly understood at the time, and Woody was first thought to be suffering from alcohol use. He died at only 55.
Thanks for the trek in your little Time Machine here! ✌️✊
You’re very welcome 🙏
I believe it was "A Mighty Wind." ; )
This is my fantasy, to be there in the late 50's and 60's! Really enjoyed this film! Thank you.
You’re so welcome 🙏
In 1965/66 I was working on the advertising side of the UK pop weekly Disc and Music Echo and I remember being on London's Shaftesbury Avenue in Soho and seeing Dylan and his musicians coming out of the trendy Cecil Gee shop with bags of what proved to be trendy mod clothing, including what I imagine were the dark blue shirts with white polka dots which kind of heralded Dylan's move into something other than folk. (Who wore this first? Dylan or Buddy Guy?) Later on I had befriended some rather serious students from a UK university who were incandescent about his departure from folk. I asked them if they'd clocked the musical side of Dylan's new style. Did they not like the rolling, apocalyptic atmosphere of 'Desolation Row', broken up by that lovely little Spanishy guitar break (played by a Nashville session man Charlie McCoy?) A radical new development in popular music - apart from what Phil Spector was doing. They looked at me as if to say "Music? What's that? How do ya spell it?"
One of the best historicals I've seen on the subject. I was listening to these artists as a teenager in high school in the frozen north Saskatchewan winters when the radio waves bouncing off the ionosphere would bring me the sounds from New York City at 3, 4, 5 o'clock in the morning. My classmate were at the time listening cow kicking music or pablum songs written for teeny boppers.
Thank you 🙏
Great documentary! Thanks. Don't forget about The Fugs! Ed and Tuli are national treasures
Thank you!
No story of NY should be without the Fugs.
They were ugly and obscene.
Incredible! We had a version of it, same in spirit but not talent, everyone was a musician or a poet, love from everyone, in Marin County, across the Golden Gate toward San Anselmo- Fairfax. And then it went to gentry and finally to Dylan's 'Things have changed'. This is how the world ends. Another amazing gathering of musicians: The Legends of Laurel Canyon.
Austin TX had a similar scene in 70s and on, it's gone now, performers need a safe place to start and grow their talent, clubs are where you do it
Interesting
Sometime in early 1970 after receiving my orders to report for my Army induction physical, Vietnam bound, I oathed in the US Navy that very evening I was supposed to report after winning no. 1 of the draft lottery. Fresh out of USN boot camp, then to Brooklyn Navel shipyard not believing I was in uniform and against the War, I wondered down to Washington Square, while on evening leave to listen to some blues to sooth my blues . Coming from a family of Jazz musicians, this felt at home. The only cloths I had at the time was my uniform, that didn’t stop me even though I got some looks. To much to say, this isn’t the time. The music heard was awesome in the Square, in what I didn't realize was the heart of the Village. Great memories, wish that kind of World was back.
Very cool thanks for sharing!
If you get any trouble with your uniform, just flash the peace sign. You're cool
We were tail-end Charlie in the mid 70's. But to this 18 year old, it was everything I wanted.
My favorite hole in the wall was "The Other End."
Good video, I grew up in NYC during this time and frequented the village clubs, including playing as a musician.
Bob Dylan is important but the video focused so much on Dylan it omitted so much more of the history of the area
Do you remember ever hearing a folk singer named Bonnie Dobson?
She was from Toromto but I read she played in Greenwich Village in the 1960's. She has many albums out and lives in UK now.
@@suzannelawson9215 I saw some albums by her on youtube.
I think Twain and Whitman possibly roamed Greenwich village a little earlier than Pollock?
And did better work!
Excellent. Great Documentary. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! And you’re welcome 🙏
This is a very good documentary that is. "not topical". Metaphorically, It goes beyond the reaches of Greenwich Village and one begins to ask the deeper question: what becomes of avant-garde movements, how do they change evolve, how do they change society and how does society change them. The Village is simply a case study in this deeper quest. Music does change social attitudes and in turn, social attitudes change the nature of the music.
Thank you and love your insights and understanding 🙏
Was in the village, late 60’s and loved it.
Thanks for posting. I just wish more of the entertainers were identified in the photos. I did catch a wee glance of Robbie Robertson. I am usually quite critical of offerings like this, but it is well-written and presented. Many thanks and keep 'em comin'!
Thank you for the kind words and suggestion 👍
I noticed that. There was also a quick glance of Rick Danko on bass at that London concert. I think Levon said he was so tired of Dylan and the Band being booed that he didn't go on the UK tour.
@@deirdre108 , thanks for your comment.
Great Documentary!
Thank you appreciate the positive feedback 🙏
GOOD JOB ....I LIVED IN GREENAGE VILLAGE FROM 1967 TO 1975 ... ANA KNEW MANY OF THOSE GUYS ...ALSO MANY ACTORS .. PAINTERS ...
WRITTERS .. DIRECTORS .....
Awesome thank you 🙏
Thank you for your enlightening portrait of the music and poetry scene of Greenwich Village in the '50s & '60s. I liked your final lines about people gathering there in the Cafes who were full of "Big Ideas" to hear and influence the singing poets among them. It took a "Village" back then to launch so many memorable songwriters into the spotlight of international popular culture. "Mais ou sont les neiges d'antan?"
Glad you enjoyed it..And you’re welcome!
Woody Guthrie was hospitalized at Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital in Morris County, New Jersey, from 1956 to 1961; at Brooklyn State Hospital (now Kingsboro Psychiatric Center) in East Flatbush until 1966; and finally at Creedmoor Psychiatric Center in Queens Village, New York, Not upstate New York.
Did Woody play in the Village at all in the early 60's?
He was gone by the sixties
@@freewheelingideas So Woody did not play there at all in 1961? When was the very last time Woody played there in Greenwich Village?
That's my old neighborhood. I attended Saint Joseph's Academy on the north side of Washington Square Park starting in 1959. This video brought back a lot of memories. One quibble: the Animals did adopt Bob Dylan's arrangement of House of the Rising Sun, but it's common knowledge that Dylan got it from Dave Von Ronk. It caused some friction between the two because Dylan didn't let Von Ronk know until it was a fait accompli.
Btw, FANTASTIC video! Love to hear/learn about music history. I knew the folkies were upset with Dylan after the '65 festival, but never knew the depth of the vitriol. Wow. And yes, Creque Alley is practically an historical representation of the scene. (Instant subscriber).
Thank you sooo much!!
An Absolute Amazing Documentary ! Thank You for such a wonderful job .
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for your kind words 🙏
The Beatles Simple as that...
I was a "light and sound man" at the Wha '65-'66...we were leftovers from the NY World World's Fair from Florida...worked kitchen, front door for Manny Roth (who paid in cash and had a car full of guys come by every once in a while). My buddy called me one evening to come down and see this fantastic guitarist who played with his teeth! I didn't go, of course. That was the only time Jimi Hendrix was at the Wha that I know of...
That's (Chicago's) Studs Terkel interviewing Bob at 15:30.
One if my earliest memories is my oldest sister playing Peter Paul and Mary. I was maybe three or four. I just really dug the harmony and singing. This was the early 70s. My sister was as hippy as small town Wisconsin would allow😊. She is the coolest cat ive ever met yet 😊.
Great memories
Cool , but I think the collapse of the Folk Scene in the Village had more to do with Rent than Music . As the first waves moved on , musicians who came later were literally priced out , and had to live in places like Greenpoint , Brooklyn. Hard to get a " scene " going when the last train to Brooklyn leaves at 11:00 . By the way , according to Al Cooper who was in Dylan's band at Newport , people booed not because Dylan was going electric , but because he only played 3 songs . His Band only rehearsed 3 songs the night before . He walked off stage , someone loaned him an acoustic and he came back on as a solo act .
Yea I’m sure rent didn’t help. Yea there’s a lot of theories on the booing.
@@freewheelingideas "thirty dollars pays your rent on Bleeker street" S&G's song from 1964
@@freewheelingideas One of the "theories" (from Pete Seeger) was that the booing was due more to the distortion and feedback than Bob's electric guitar.
But NYC subways run all night long.
@@robertewalt7789 Subways yes , New Jersey Transit Trains and Bus no . Also , no one particularly likes riding the Subway at 3:00 am when you are more likely to get beat up & robbed , then have someone sing you a Folk song .
I played guitar in a 3 piece folk trio in the early 60's, but we lived in San Diego. I've never had the kind of kinship, or whatever I could call it as I did back then. I was completly engrossed in folk music and knew all about the people in this video, but only saw Peter Paul and Mary here in San Diego. I'm still a musician, but havn't played live for a couple of years. I can't tell you what an influence this scene and those people had on myself and I think the music industry in general. Huge influence. Folk music, back then was such a personal involvement, and the feelings were so strong about it. I'm a little ashamed or imbarrassed to say this, but I think it almost kind of "coddled" us a bit, from the world or something, so that when Dylan came out with the electric stuff, it felt like our special little "place" or "world of acoustic folk music" was disrupted. I know now, that I'm older, things just do change, whether we like it or not. There never was a more special time, as far as the music was, than the folk music era was for me in my life. I'll always cherish that time, those feelings, those people I played with and hung with. It really was a special time. Marc Trainor
Great documentary! John Hammond junior played with Jimi Hendrix at the Cafe Au Go Go as well as with Ellen Mcllwaine who was on piano. Others who played in the Village from time to time were bluesmen Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee.
Thank you 🙏
I appreciate to see both Sonny Terry & Brownie McGee and Ellen McIllwaine remembered. Ellen was such an epic 12 string and slide virtuoso! She was driving a school bus in Canada and occasionally recording and performing until she died recently, I think in 2022. She often commented how much she enjoyed the time she spent with Hendrix. McIllwaine's album 'We the People' is definitely worth a listen, and I will never forget the times I heard her powerful guitar solos in small clubs in Philadelphia area.
We partied @ The Bitter End back in 1997. A Pink Floyd cover band performed every song in reggae style. Fabulous! Plus I was allowed to kiss 💋 the female lead vocalist.
Ooh lala
I grew up thinking that a "Coffee House" with about 100 people in the audience was the norm. Now it's a 100 thousand people in a football stadium.
Linda Rondstat said that’s what changed music.
@@freewheelingideas Yep, Stadium Rock.
I was born during the "Folkie Riots". My mom had been on the edges of the pre-Beat scene in S.F. during her college days. My dad knew Woody Guthrie from his hobo days. Later I led walking tours in the Village showing these sights.
Pink Floyd aside, this is my favorite musical genre/era. Not much new in music since 1990s.
it was zoned, out of existence...
This is an excellent documentary. Thank you!
You’re welcome! Thank you for the positive feedback!
Cisco Houston was more than a "Dust Bowl leftover". He was a traveling companion of Woody Gutherie and a template for Dylan. Don't forget Paul Clayton.
Cisco was a fine vocalist.
Cisco is underrated!
@@marknewton6984 For sure he is under rated. He maybe had the best voice among the Guthrie-Seeger crowd. He was also a creative guy, though not as prolific as his buddy Woody.
The Musicians left to chase Rock & Roll Dreams ❤🎵🌈