why would the copper come from the varnished covered motor windings and not the copper tubing in the system ? In problem compressors that are running hot and drawing high amps I have been using Supco oil additive since the 70's, it works great, it cleans and lines all the metal surfaces and makes them slipperyer.costs 7.95, it's the best kept secret nobody seems to know about. It will also clean the inside of the evaporator's tubing helping the delta T. good video.
***** Oil additives probably will make no difference. The problem here is contaminants in the system. They facilitate the plating. The copper piping is generally too far away from the compressor parts for them to provide the copper for plating. GFM
interesting. The motors are coated with varnish to prevent them from shorting out. I cannot imagine how copper wicked through that layer and yet the motor ran. Not sure I see copper on the parts, maybe the orange is discoloration from rust, contaminated oil or most likely, debris from the system. Yes the "clearance" are tight, but anything that "coated" the scrolls would likely wear off quickly during normal run. Not sure why the rotor was locked. would need to open the compressor and try to turn it by hand to see if it is truly "locked"
+kjreinha Check my compressor playlist. There are other examples of copper plating. Tecumseh also has examples in their service manual. Hope this helps. GFM
I had a Copeland compressor in a 1999 Carrier heat pump package unit showing LRAs. Threw a hard start on it and it ran but it sounded horrible. It would pump, then it wouldn't pump, and back and forth like that til it opened a winding.. Can you please tell me what was causing all the noise?
I thought the reason moisture is bad is because for some reason the oil reacts with moisture to form acids. If you open up a compressor it will be clear why it locked up. I didn't want to bother with mine but I bet it already had problems to begin with and it just locked up probably because the problem got to be too much. I mean people use these compressors to compress air, they just have to dump out the oil and replace it with something that won't react with air (like ones used for air compressors), granted not continuously, but still... Also people use these compressors for recovering refrigerant too.
Moisture does cause acid. It also causes copper plating. Hermetic compressors are not used for refrigerant recovery. In the 1990s they were used for recovery with catastrophic results. The company I worked for had around 40 of these hermetic recovery units that failed. GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I heard of people using hermetic compressors for recovery or as vacuum pump (almost every HVAC techs here use it for that), they pour out the existing oil and replace it with air compressor oil so that it doesn't cause acid.
My father used a hermetic compressor for evacuation in the late 1960s. Recovery was not considered then. No service tech worth his salt would ever consider using a hermetic compressor for evacuation or recovery in the last 50 years. They simply do not do an effective job. A evacuation pump can bring the negative pressure to 20 microns. A compressor used for refrigeration is not required to or is it capable of that kind of numbers. GFM@@taiwanluthiers
GFM, why cant they design the compressor with lubricant permanently sealed into the motor bearings. It seems a real drawback to have the lubricant flowing throughout the system with the refrigerant. Every time there is a leak it loses oil and if the system keeps running on low suction pressure there is little or no oil return to the compressor.
+Gene Friedman There are some compressors that are oilless. Mostly diaphragm types. Everything out there is a balance. Longevity issues have made diaphragm types inappropriate. Cylinders need lubrication, so some oil must be pumped out. The scroll types pump even more oil than piston types. There may come a time when materials have advanced to where oil could be disposed of but it just has not happened yet. GFM
OCTAVIO FERNANDEZ If a compressor will not start(assuming the run cap is ok), sometimes you can get it to start with a start kit. I would tell the customer it will last from 10 minutes to 2 years. The compressor is failing. If the customer wants a little more time out of it, and is not bothered by having it fail with no warning, I would do it. GFM
i dont buy that de moisture did cause the lock on the rotor, the rotor is very strong. Howeever the copper may have caused not moisture but crasched evaporator and water is in compressor a real crash.
I have a question I was working on a train today and the suction pressure was 105 and the highside was 255. is this the compressor or overfeeding meeting device. any help would be grateful! thank you!
What refrigerant are you using? If it's R22 there's no way suction pressure can be 105. They top out at about 80 psi if you severely overcharge the system. If this is R410a then that suction pressure is about right, but the head pressure is too low. That points to weak compressor. It's also possible that the compressor is weak, because that's not a good compression ratio. My AC compressor was weak prior to locking up. It was making all kinds of weird sound trying to start up, and when it did start up it was LOUD, and the needle on the gauge was jumping (like it had trouble pumping). Yea suction pressure was a bit high, I tried to lower the suction pressure by recovering the refrigerant thinking I had overcharged it. Since my system was a mini split I had no way of knowing what the head pressure is, and so it doesn't tell me if it's a bad compression. I'd say get a new compressor.
i more prefer reciprocating than scroll.
Great video. thanks
why would the copper come from the varnished covered motor windings and not the copper tubing in the system ? In problem compressors that are running hot and drawing high amps I have been using Supco oil additive since the 70's, it works great, it cleans and lines all the metal surfaces and makes them slipperyer.costs 7.95, it's the best kept secret nobody seems to know about. It will also clean the inside of the evaporator's tubing helping the delta T. good video.
***** Oil additives probably will make no difference. The problem here is contaminants in the system. They facilitate the plating. The copper piping is generally too far away from the compressor parts for them to provide the copper for plating.
GFM
interesting. The motors are coated with varnish to prevent them from shorting out. I cannot imagine how copper wicked through that layer and yet the motor ran. Not sure I see copper on the parts, maybe the orange is discoloration from rust, contaminated oil or most likely, debris from the system. Yes the "clearance" are tight, but anything that "coated" the scrolls would likely wear off quickly during normal run. Not sure why the rotor was locked. would need to open the compressor and try to turn it by hand to see if it is truly "locked"
+kjreinha Check my compressor playlist. There are other examples of copper plating. Tecumseh also has examples in their service manual. Hope this helps.
GFM
the copper tubing?
It ' s amazing , they are simple , but so tweeky .
Thanks GFM, have you ever seen it when they produce green slim? Thanks for uploading
Yes. Pretty ugly. Can only be a sloppy install.
GFM
grayfurnaceman I don't know about green slime, but white slime is caused by a mix of different brands of oils
I had a Copeland compressor in a 1999 Carrier heat pump package unit showing LRAs. Threw a hard start on it and it ran but it sounded horrible. It would pump, then it wouldn't pump, and back and forth like that til it opened a winding.. Can you please tell me what was causing all the noise?
Its hard to say without disassembly, but probably a piece of the scroll broke off.
GFM
I thought the reason moisture is bad is because for some reason the oil reacts with moisture to form acids.
If you open up a compressor it will be clear why it locked up. I didn't want to bother with mine but I bet it already had problems to begin with and it just locked up probably because the problem got to be too much.
I mean people use these compressors to compress air, they just have to dump out the oil and replace it with something that won't react with air (like ones used for air compressors), granted not continuously, but still...
Also people use these compressors for recovering refrigerant too.
Moisture does cause acid. It also causes copper plating.
Hermetic compressors are not used for refrigerant recovery. In the 1990s they were used for recovery with catastrophic results. The company I worked for had around 40 of these hermetic recovery units that failed.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I heard of people using hermetic compressors for recovery or as vacuum pump (almost every HVAC techs here use it for that), they pour out the existing oil and replace it with air compressor oil so that it doesn't cause acid.
My father used a hermetic compressor for evacuation in the late 1960s. Recovery was not considered then. No service tech worth his salt would ever consider using a hermetic compressor for evacuation or recovery in the last 50 years.
They simply do not do an effective job. A evacuation pump can bring the negative pressure to 20 microns. A compressor used for refrigeration is not required to or is it capable of that kind of numbers.
GFM@@taiwanluthiers
GFM, why cant they design the compressor with lubricant permanently sealed into the motor bearings. It seems a real drawback to have the lubricant flowing throughout the system with the refrigerant. Every time there is a leak it loses oil and if the system keeps running on low suction pressure there is little or no oil return to the compressor.
+Gene Friedman There are some compressors that are oilless. Mostly diaphragm types. Everything out there is a balance. Longevity issues have made diaphragm types inappropriate. Cylinders need lubrication, so some oil must be pumped out. The scroll types pump even more oil than piston types. There may come a time when materials have advanced to where oil could be disposed of but it just has not happened yet.
GFM
hey,, is there any way to deal with that problem? to unlock the rotor.?
Nope. The compressor is dead.
GFM
Thank god there are hard start kits available right?
Actually, I don't think it would be much of a long time repair. Maybe to keep it running for a hot spell.
GFM
grayfurnaceman If thats the case. does the compressor has to be replaced?
OCTAVIO FERNANDEZ If a compressor will not start(assuming the run cap is ok), sometimes you can get it to start with a start kit. I would tell the customer it will last from 10 minutes to 2 years. The compressor is failing. If the customer wants a little more time out of it, and is not bothered by having it fail with no warning, I would do it.
GFM
Mine did not work with the start kit! Is just locked! Trane xl16i 2010
i dont buy that de moisture did cause the lock on the rotor, the rotor is very strong. Howeever the copper may have caused not moisture but crasched evaporator and water is in compressor a real crash.
Very cool!
I have a question I was working on a train today and the suction pressure was 105 and the highside was 255. is this the compressor or overfeeding meeting device. any help would be grateful! thank you!
brennanac1 I am assuming the unit is R-22. If the expansion device is overfeeding, the superheat would be non existent. Hope this helps.
GFM
What refrigerant are you using? If it's R22 there's no way suction pressure can be 105. They top out at about 80 psi if you severely overcharge the system. If this is R410a then that suction pressure is about right, but the head pressure is too low. That points to weak compressor.
It's also possible that the compressor is weak, because that's not a good compression ratio.
My AC compressor was weak prior to locking up. It was making all kinds of weird sound trying to start up, and when it did start up it was LOUD, and the needle on the gauge was jumping (like it had trouble pumping). Yea suction pressure was a bit high, I tried to lower the suction pressure by recovering the refrigerant thinking I had overcharged it. Since my system was a mini split I had no way of knowing what the head pressure is, and so it doesn't tell me if it's a bad compression.
I'd say get a new compressor.
nice vid. thanks for sharing GFM
Great master
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