The demonstration you provided does show valid and interesting results. However; what it doesn’t show is difference in energy transfer to the shooting hand. Light objects react to energy output faster. A short barrel pistol is lighter in weight and produces a faster more powerful recoil pulse because of its lighter weight. However; a longer barrel pistol produces more recoil; because it also produces more velocity from the powder charge. The longer barrel being heavier doesn’t reduce recoil it just slows the effects. The longer barrel increases the sight radius for better precise aiming and increased velocities. Therefore; you can use lighter bullets to knock over targets at 200 meters or closer. Lighter bullets produce less recoil and the extra weight of the pistol makes it more pleasing to shoot. The Pachmayr grips being made of a recoil absorbing material cushion or slow the recoil effects not reduce it. They also reduce bruising your middle finger from it striking the trigger guard. They also position your grip higher than the stock grips allow. This directs the recoil straight back into your hand and reduces muzzle rise. If you limp wrist any handgun you lose control of consistent shot to shot accuracy. The recoil is absorber by your hand into your arm and body when you keep your wrist locked. Muzzle rise is reduced and accuracy improves. Comfort comes second to accuracy. Shooting handguns accurately requires hours of practice; more than any other firearm.
I have the same revolvers and grips and, over the years, I’ve come to separate recoil (by shooting experience and mathematically) into recoil energy and recoil velocity. The snappier, high-pressure cartridges in lightweight firearms (revolver or rifle) have more recoil velocity and muzzle flip as you’ve wonderfully demonstrated. (Thanks.). The cartridges with lower pressure, especially if in heavier guns, will have lower recoil velocity. Both combinations can be loaded to the same recoil energy. In my experience, I’ve learned that I can maintain better accuracy by keeping recoil velocity down. So I’ve gravitated towards cartridges like 45Colt and 45-70 and 416 Rigby rather than their high-pressure counterparts. That, in a slightly heavier gun (e.g. longer barrel), mitigates perceived recoil and minimizes my flinch and helps me stay on target. I also used to shoot in IHMSA. Once you know the revolver is not going to fly out of your hand during recoil, it allows you to be more calm and ease up on the grip strength and maintain accuracy. The rubber grips, imo, are ugly but help with friction more and ensure confidence. With excessive muzzle flip, I struggle to keep my composure and flinch gets worse and I tend to apply too much grip pressure to keep the hammer off my hand.
I learn to shoot 44 magnum years ago, using my Ruger 44 magnum 10.5 inch barrel. Full house loads. I was new to 44 mag. And accepted the recoil with the standard grips. I got used to it. I would normally shoot outside and my stance was two handed with my right cuped in my left. My right are was straight out, supported by left arm. I found it to very accurate to shoot cans and bottles out to eighty yards. I eventually switched to 45 acp in a colt commander steel semiautomatic. But I do shoot my old Ruger 44 magnum occasionally with enjoyment. Thank you for your video.
Great to see you sporting the "Just put a thumb in it" shirt George! Got one myself 🍻 I'm thinking that whole story will show that the firearms community and shirt sales are better than any medical insurance 🙂
Boy, I sure wish you had a set of Steve Herrett's oversize grips to try! I had these on my Super Blackhawk 35 years ago.and they really helped with felt recoil and gun control. Glad I kept my set when I had to let my 10 1/2" stainless go back in the day. Nice test! Bob
Great video. My first and foremost thought is to mention Pachmayrs wear out. I have a few old sets for my S&W 29 & 19. I don’t shoot my revolvers as much as I did, but the long hours sitting on a shooting bench in the sun or in my chest rig leave the right side exposed to direct sunlight for hours and that will take its toll over time. It’s not like I need a new pair every year, but every 5 years I think makes a difference. The discoloration and cracking are the big reveals for me, and I don’t mind getting a new set if it looks like they need to be changed.
I put a set of oversized Herrett’s Troopers on my 7.5” Super. They make it very comfortable to shoot, especially since they fill in behind the trigger guard.
I have a Ruger Super Black Hawk with a 10.5" barrel also. I had the same experience when I put Pachmayr grips on it, it hit my hand much harder. Additionally to that the pebble texture of the grips started a friction burn after a couple of cylinders of 44 mag. I took the rubber grips off and put the original wood back on and had less perceived recoil and less hand pain after an extended range session. It seems that the wooden "plow handle" grips will slide through my hand which does increase muzzle flip, but softens the straight back punch into my hand. I am leaving the original grips on.
@@TargetSuite please share the link I also have big hands and currently have packmiers that with my hot loads and my 44 super Redhawk I'm starting to develop wrist pain and would like to learn more about different groups now that I'm retired and have more time to play.
The Bisley style grip handle recoil much better than Old Western style grip. I have a Taurus Raging Bull 454 Casull and a BFR 454 Casull in Bisley grip, the Raging Bull snapped my hand every single shot while the BFR Bisley just rolled in my hand. For heavy and sharp recoiling caliber the Bisley style grip is my choice.
Hand size has a lot to do with what type of grip you prefer too! With this this type of pistol and caliber size muzzle flip (like you said) comes with the territory. So in conclusion it’s just a preference on which style grip fits your hand best. Great video and bad ass pistols you got there! 👍🏻
Your testing proved what I have long known, thank you. The strength of the Single Action grip is that it allows the handgun to "roll" in your hand, dissipating felt recoil. The Pachmayr grips negate that Single Action feature by eliminating the rolling in your hand, thereby causing recoil to be more straight line to the rear, making your hand soak up the recoil, increasing felt recoil.
It was awesome to see the Super Blackhawk "roll" in action. The way you held it is exactly the way you should to avoid the "Dragoon trigger knuckle guard buster" that many Super Blackhawk shooters complain about. You should make a "How to properly shoot a Super Blackhawk" video. Most people hold them too tight, then complain when they get wacked by the trigger guard. If you check other TH-cam pages on the Super Blackhawk almost everyone bitches about it. Some go as far as to use the grips that cover the area behind the trigger guard to avoid getting their knuckle busted.
Very Interesting. I've noticed that with my extra large hands, a bisley grip makes a big difference compared to a traditional single action army grip in felt recoil, especially with .357.
The big advantage of the Pachmayr grips on a Super with the square-backed trigger guard is that it keeps your middle finger from getting hammered with every shot. I've found that the Bisley grip setup is wonderful on the big bores (.44 Mag/45 Colt), especially given it's extra length, so all your fingers are wrapped around the grip - no "pinkies high."
My dad has 357 mag revolver from Colt that has an 8 3/8” barrel and Hogue grips (maybe Pachmeyer, don’t remember). It fills the hand nicely though and, compared to a 4” barrel, the recoil is substantially different. I prefer the convenience of the short barrel but the long booger shoots much better! It makes this grown man smile! Unless it’s Buffalo Bore 180 gr. Then I wince just a tad!
Great information. Thanks. I have always been a big bore fan and I'm not recoil sensitive. My Ruger Hunter with Bisley grips is fun to shoot, but it is also the heaviest 44 I own. I also think that the Bisley grip frame gets the bore axis down and helps with flip, but that is subjective. Would love to see a video comparing the standard grip frame to the Bisley grip frame. Thanks again.
A friend of mine had 3 Smith & Wessons, a 6", a 8-3/8"in model 629, and a 10-5/8th" in 29. The 2 longer barrel revolvers were much more enjoyable for me to shoot. They all had the checkered Goncalo Alves grips which grabbed the skin on your hand and tried to rip it off. LOL The 6" being the worst. They were all very accurate, and nice revolvers. After a shooting session, he asked me my opinion. I think it hurt his feelings when I told him. LOL I told him, if they were mine that I would rasp the sharp checkering off the grips. The reason I was testing the revolvers was that he thought they had accuracy issues. They did not, but he had a serious flinch problem. The 10-5/8th" shot under 2' groups at 50 yards off the bench, the 8-3/8' was around 2" and the 6" around 3". That 6" sure wasn't fun for me. LOL
I myself had a .44 Super Redhawk with 9.5 in. Barrell and the S&W Model 15 .38 caliber Police Special w/Pachmyar grips but didn't use the Pachmyar grips on the 44; I found that enough 250 grain semi-wadcutters and range time, and then strengthen my wrist using weight training at home using weighted cans on cord and a large Dowel rolling it up and down starting out with light weight and building up over several months I began to be able to easily control the muzzle rise and shock. I had to start out using 1.5 lb can of water and work up to nails and then finally lead shot. I was rolling up and down at the end of about 6 months 8 lbs of shot in a large bush's baked beans can full of bird shot and lead scrap that I just got from the trap at the indoor range that they gave me for free. Everyone probably remembers doing this in gym class at one time or another. I was a wrestler in school though, so I did pegboard as well and became exceedingly strong in my wrists and forearms so I didn't have much of a problem after all the wrist training rolling the can up and down arms straight out in front of me elbows tuck & locked out and just go up and down as many times as I could til it burned like that bonfire 🔥 in the backyard on the weekend. I got to the point I could fire 248 grain silver tipped hollow points in the 44, and 128 grain silver tipped hollow points for the 38 hot loads as I could find for both. And my 1911 I could fire single handed and my Winchester 30-30 lever one handed and be deadly accurate. I'd hate to have had to test myself at my accuracy and steady hand. I got really, really scary accurate actually. With all of my weapons one hand or two. Glad I never needed to find out for real not once 👮🏻♂️😯😎. Truly blessed not to have had to.
I appreciate that you took time to write that comment. And you bring up a really good point for us more mature Shooters. And that is that if we're not careful we will lose strength and muscle mass, both of which can affect our ability to shoot well and shoot comfortably.
Late to the party on this video, but I was just directed here off of a TH-cam Ruger Blackhawk page. I liked the educational video and I am now subscribed and I will be perusing the channel. It is also nice to see you sporting one of Scott’s shirts 👍
George, The standard grip of the Single Action Revolver was designed to pivot at the trigger finger and thus the heel of the grip was to slide under the clinched grip. rotating muzzle upward and thus allowing the hammer spur to come closer to the thumb for its use to cock the hammer for a faster second shot. Of course the original intended Army Calvary trooper would know that his grip was not a death grip but one that allowed the revolver to move in the hand. But today people are taught to hold a handgun with a tight grip, so recoil is transferred to the entire arm and the force of energy causes the elbow to flex.
Thanks for that! You are right in that we have "modernized" how we manage the old, and proven, design. And for a lot of folks it doesn't work as well as the original intent.
I thoroughly enjoy these videos. You remind me of the professors I once enjoyed in college that made every day interesting. I never get tired of expanding my knowledge of various subjects. Why I was once called Mr. Twenty Questions.
I bought my Super Blackhawk in 1965 (when I was 21) when they were available only blued and with a 7.5" barrel. I found the recoil to be a bit severe, so I bought a set of Herretts Shooting Star grips with a figure in the grain of the wood, NOT checkering. I had fired a S&W .44 Mag and did not like having the checkered grips biting my hand. The new grips were larger and longer, and they let the revolver roll back in my hand when it was fired. It was much more comfortable to shoot and the revolver stopped rolling back when the hammer was in the web between my thumb and first finger. There was no pain like there is when shooting a 1911A1 with an arched housing. The only pain I experienced was in my ears, especially on the days that I forgot to bring my ear valves to the range. Back in those days I shot one handed Olympic style, which is why today I always use my left ear for the telephone.
Have been shooting my Ruger 7.5" SBH since 1985 and reloading for it since 1987. I do not know how many 10,000s of rounds it has through it but has had 3 different grips on it. Factory, Pachmayr and now sports Hogue grips. The Pachmayrs were used until they started splitting. The Hogues are by far the best. My load of choice are 300grn Castcore/Grizzly Cart. WFNGCs over a 'not in any manual' heavy load of H110. They shows no signs of pressure and are extremely accurate and devastating for hunting. It also pairs up nicely with mi 16" Winch. Trapper in 44 Mag. I can shoot a large amount, over 50 at one sitting with out any discomfort. Hogues are the way to go on my pistol and with my loads.
This is a very interesting video, especially stopping the slow motion film at various stages. The Colt single action gripframe was designed to allow the gun to rotate in the hand and dissipate the recoil that way. This worked for around 100 years, until Ruger chambered their single action in .44 mag. That one, when it rotates, puts the sharp edges of the frame at the base of the hammer into the top of the web of your hand and that hurts. Other grip shapes can reduce the rolling but at the expense off transferring the recoil into another part of your hand. People like John Linebaugh started using the Ruger Bisley grip in the heavy recoiling calibers to help reduce the rolling of the gun. When you put on the rubber Pachmayr grips they have greater friction with your hand and in a gun that wants to roll a lot the rubber sticks to your skin and wants to peel it off of your hand. You have to choose which of these options to reduce rolling of the gun are the least uncomfortable to you.
The only issue I ever had with my Super Blackhawk was the squared trigger guard occasionally hitting the knuckle on my middle finger. It is enough to let you know it but not enough to drop the gun or stop shooting it.
@@TargetSuite I put a $12 Hogue sleeve on my Beretta PX4 Storm and it went from slip-sliding around in my hand to world-class stable, and it's on the *_larger_* side of average for a grip to begin with.
I use Hogue finger groove grips on Ruger Redhawk seems to help .I've had several different guns over my lifetime .I also have a Tauras its recoil is a beast.
Yep. I liked that part, but the narrow back of the grip was pretty uncomfortable under recoil. Maybe a current grip from them wouldn't have that problem. Thanks for the comment!
I have found as you did that the Pachmayr grip was unpleasant to shoot with my Super Blackhawk, when the gun would roll back and up, the grip would adhere to and try to tear the skin in my palm,, or at least blister it with much shooting of full house handloads, especially 300 grain bullets. I didn't care for the Hogue rubber grip either, (although I prefer them on my S&W revolers) because it would not let the gun roll, or rotate up in the hand somewhat and transfers all of that torque into the wrist. I have a meaty pair of stag grips on mine (SBH) that work quite well. I urge you to give a Bisley Blackhawk a try, I purchased a 5 1/2 inch Ruger Bisley (large frame ala Super Blackhawk) in .45 Colt a few years ago as a stable mate to the aforementioned 4 5/8s Super Blackhawk. I think you would be amazed at the difference in the recoil impulse. I never believed it until I tried it. Now that I'm North of 50, I don't shoot much of the 300 grain and heavier loads anymore, no need and my hands can't take a lot of that anymore. However I am shooting pretty much identical ballistics out of these two Rugers. The .44 is shooting 260 grain Rim Rock Keith semi wadcutters at 1,340, and the .45 Colt is shooting Rim Rock 270 grain Keith semi wadcutters at 1,335. The way the Bisley grip handles recoil is very noticeable, give it a try, love ❤️ old school big bore sixguns. Good video and test sir, keep it up and we'll done!
I understand what you are talkin about and I have a 44 magnum 7 & a half inch barrel. I also have a set of aftermarket grips on it because my middle finger was taking so much abuse from that the trigger guard that I couldn't fire it. It hurt my hand so bad I found some Walnut grips somewhere a long time ago that puts my third finger below the trigger guard eliminated my finger from being smashed from recoil. Another reason that I changed grips was because the original grips were just too small. Again, thank you for the video, it was most informative.
Thanks. I really appreciate your comment. My finger was getting slapped but it was tolerable for the amount of shooting I was doing it. I just picked up a new 44 magnum Ruger Vaquero in the shape of that trigger guard is much more finger friendly.
Shooting off hand standing position, the standard grip on the single action allows me to shot my hottest loads with the least felt recoil, the bisley style and Smith&wesson combat style allows for more control, accuracy, and faster follow up shots. The single action plow grip is still my favorite most the majority.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I've never been a big fan of Pachmyr plastic grips. I believe that the Hogue tamer grips are far superior. I'm curious what your experiences would be with a Bisley grip frame.
That's a good question. My cousin brought his Bisley Ruger over the other day and I was not a big fan. It may be more that I don't like the style but it also didn't feel right in the hand. But I think it's really just a personal preference.
Have you fired a Bisley style gripframe Blackhawk compared to the standard plowhandle? Any idea how the Bisley grip functions in comparison? I've read many places that recoil can be controlled a little better with Bisley grip.
My cousin brought over a Bisley several months ago. I did not like the handle. It may just be personal preference but I didn't sense any Improvement in recoil or controllability with the Bisley design
You cant shoot a 44 mag single handed anyway, so why would you want a shorter barrel in the first place unless your running 44 special or blackpowder 44-40? The blackhawks overbuilt frame was obviously never designed for concealability in the first place. The 5.5" barrel that came on my S-Blackhawk is nothing but loud, obnoxious, uncontrollable and pointless.
First thing I did when I purchased my used Blackhawk and Redhawk was remove the hogue and pachmyer grip and put the stock grip back on. They feel better in my hands. Grips may only change felt recoil. Individual grip, strength, etc varies with every individual shooter.
@@TargetSuite First person to agree with me today! Love my single action Rugers. Can't say the same about stock grips on my Smith's. I have a Highway Patrol with stock grips. You're right, 357 is nothing compared to shooting 44mag. 44 special is the way to go for nice, enjoyable shooting.
Recoil is a topic that shooters are curious about but it's hard to quantify. The 4 screens together with the reference line was the best way I saw yet to show recoil. Cool video!
"Hardcast" is kind of a loose term. It generally refers to a lead alloy that is harder than pure lead. How hard it has to be is not specific. But the higher the Brinnel (BHN) number the harder the alloy and similarly the higher the number the faster can load up your rounds without leading up your bore. I appreciate your watching!
Yes it does even if just perceived. The shorter barrel is lighter so that affects it and the muzzle blast s closer to your face on a shorter barrels so you feel the muzzle blast more
I gotta say this the wood grips with the squared off trigger guard the squared off trigger guard will hit your fingers and make them bleed the other grips you had will keep your fingers from bleeding after shooting at a bunch
I bought a .44 western style revolver in the early 70's. I don't know about barrel length, but style is a major factor. I have shot what I call "Police style" .44's and they tend to kick to the right. Your western style kicks straight back into your wrist and after a couple cylinders my wrist starts to hurt.
That's interesting. I have found with age comes a reluctance to punish myself like I did in my foolish youth. Hot loads just aren't fun anymore. Regardless of the gun😉😉
I found myself putting Hogue grips on my Blackhawk 44. With a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Found if I didn't that end of the trigger guard would cut up my knuckle...but with some hotter loads it's like shooting of a hand cannon lol...found I like just shooting a cowboy load out of it..lighter load of gun powder in them....
Thanks for your comment. And sorry for the late reply. I guess I've gotten to the point in life where really hot handgun loads I just not pleasant to shoot. I punched my man card decades ago so now like you I can just enjoy the lighter loads.
I have enjoyed Hogue grips on K frame and J frame S&W revolvers, and I experimented with hot loads and controllability in them. Great video comparison.
Wound up getting barrels ported too help in the wrist wrenching! Just be aware of ported barrels are not recommended when using shot cartridges! If you have a lot of snakes in your travels keep this in mind! For safety reasons!
Had a Ruger Blackhawk with 4 5/8 inch barrel. The hard recoil damaged the cartilage in my right wrist for life! Have to be careful about what I load and how I handle hard recoil! Back before I knew about bisley or packmier grips! Past recoil gloves! Very good information! Also noticed trigger loop bite and hammer gouging! God bless you and thank you for the video!
Interesting, way back in the mid-70s my friend (gun shop owner) and I (part-time employee) ran our own un-scientific test on the recoil of the model 29 and the Ruger Super Blackhawk. Used the same Remington 240 gr ammo in both, the Smith was a 6.5 in barrel and the Ruger a 7.5. We both felt the Ruger western-style recoil was a rolling back, while the 29 English-style (our term) revolver pushed comparatively straight back. (Much less roll). We did not change any grips, it never occurred to us. Duh. And I was still new to shooting and knew even less than I now know.
I've found it more comfortable to shoot a lighter load in my 44 black hawk or if I'm loading my own bullet will choice a lighter load of powder....some of that factory loads are hot....
I'm with you. The days of punishing maximum loads are behind to me. I've paid my dues and now I just want to enjoy the shooting experience. Yes I'll still shoot some Maximum loads occasionally but generally not.
I don't have any of those grips to compare, but I'm going to the NRA show in September. Maybe I can pick up a pair for a "very reasonable" price while I'm there😉
I’ve always preferred the wood grips on my revolvers (with the exception of Colt’s plastic grips on there peacemaker). I have a fairly wide hand but short fingers. The standard grips fit my hand. Target grips or wide grips of any kind are too big for me to get a good grip. I haven’t fired a .44 mag for years but I still remember how much fun it was. Another interesting video.
Hey, that's a Cooler Master HAF XB computer case in the background at your loading bench. Outstanding case. I have two of them and will never build another computer in a standard case again.
The back of the trigger guard is hard on my middle finger. Other than that, with medium reloads, my 7.5" barrel not too much recoil. Still got scars on my thumb until I learned to put it on the side.
I can answer this before I even watch you shoot. The Pachmayr grip is going to be a bit more uncomfortable when shooting but it tend to make the bullet strike more stable. The long barrel, the 7 and 1/2 + 10 and 1/2 inch barrel have a lot of dwell time when the primer is ignited to the bullet leaves the barrel. That means any change in your grip will change the point of impact. Original grips on the 44 will allow it to slide through the hand more consistently. Making a more consistent point of impact as long as you are holding it the same each time. I still use the Pachmayr grip once in awhile if I'm using it in the field. But I was able to shoot Super Blackhawk, five rounds in the span of about three to four seconds, and put them all in a single hole at an indoor range anytime. They are supremely Accurate Firearms with the right load and the right hold. Addition, I practiced with both gripping the firearm Tighter and allowing it to just sit in my hand, and it did change the point of impact so you have to be cognizant of how tight your gripping the firearm at the time that it goes off. I got considerably different points of impact by gripping the firearm harder, it would impact lower than if I allowed it to just go ahead and flip in my hand with no resistance. When I shot a four and 5/8 inch gun. The impact change was minimized greatly.
If you get the chance, compare the standard factory Ruger grips to a Ruger Bisley grip frame…shooting the same hot .45 Colt (Ruger only maximum 255gr hard cast and powder coated hand loads) in my 5 1/2”Blackhawks and my 5 1/2” Bisleys the recoil is much more manageable and way less painful. With the Bisley’s longer and different shaped grip design recoil is more “straight” back with way less muzzle flip than the Blackhawks more traditional grip shape (which rolls in my hand and can be uncomfortable especially with Stag Grips.). I do enjoy your channel 👍👍👍
I have both of these grips for my 7 1/2' barreled Super Blackhawk. I much prefer the Pachmayr. For me, they reduce felt recoil and wrist and hand shock.
The longer barrel does mean more velocity, which at least partly offsets the added mass of the gun. I should have shot both guns across the chronograph to answer that question up front.
Love the shirt. Still waiting on mine. I have a 38spl derringerish pistol and I do believe it shows less recoil than my snubby revolver. All of the pressure dumps just pass the case in the derringer.
Absolutely barrel length and grip style make a difference. I have several different types of .44 magnum varying from 4-5/8 Ruger super blackhawk with old style grip to 7- 1/2"super blackhawk with standard and bisley grip . Two S&W mod 29 , one a 29-2 and one29-6 with a round grip frame and hogue rubber grips . Huge difference in recoil per model.
The slo-mo is fascinating. Many years ago, I bought Pachmayrs for a Blackhawk, and quickly went back to the stock grips. Pachmayr Grippers on my wife’s old M66 duty gun, my .44 Mountain Gun, and my Python are great for keeping a gun anchored in your hand. But perceived recoil is more than just the math. A heavy load in my Mountain Gun is more uncomfortable than a heavier load in my Freedom Arms .454 with its smooth single action grip. We often perceive more recoil in the shorter guns with their quick muzzle rise, but science says the same load develops more energy in a longer barrel. I think your video shows us that.
Thanks. I appreciate that!. And yes recoil has two components. One is muscle flip and the other is what your hand feels i.e. the pain level. We can indeed help control that muzzle flip but the end result is that our pain takes a different kind of beating than the bending of the wrist.
OSIYO GEORGE, THE NEW INTRO IS GOOD BUT I PERSONALLY DIDN'T MIND YOUR OLD INTRO. I SAW IN THE COMMENTS THAT WAS SOMETHING YOUR DAD SAID A LOT. THAT'S AWESOME YOU USE THAT TO HONOR HIM! I HAVE SHOT A LOT OF SINGLE ACTION REVOLVERS FROM 4 3/4"- 5 1/2" - 7 1/2" WITH DIFFERENT GRIPS. BUT ALWAYS WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL WOOD ONES. I HAVE FOUND (FOR ME ANYWAY) THAT IF I SLIGHTLY BEND MY ELBOW AND LOCK MY WRIST IT HELP WITH AIMING WITH A STRAP NOTCH REAR SIGHT,AND HELPS A LOT WITH THE SINGLE ACTION ROLE OF THE RECOIL. GEORGE WERE CAN I FIND ONE OF THOSE MAGIC SCREWDRIVERS? I NEED ONE! GREAT VIDEO
I have a Redhawk 44 mag 5-1/2” barrel. When I first got it, both 200 grain and 240 grain Underwood rounds really spanked my hands hard. I didn’t really want to shoot over 12 to 18 rounds. I went back to the range the next week, but had the same trouble, and had started developing a flinch. I remembered that a friend had let me shoot his Redhawk 41 Mag back in the 80’s, and he kept telling me that it would not be punishing to me because he’d installed Pachmayr grips, and had it mag-na-ported. I didn’t know how it performed before, but I really enjoyed shooting that blued beauty! I figured the least expensive option that I could try would be the grips. I installed a set of 3140 Presentation Pachmayr grips (because they looked the closest to the ones that Randy had) and went back to the range. What a difference! The experience is now much more comfortable, even with 305 grain Underwood loads, the most powerful that I’ve used so far!
@@TargetSuite Maybe. I actually think that the actual gun model (handle configuration), grip model, and how those relate to your hand size have a lot to do with the grip’s effectiveness. I read a lot of reviews of specific grip models. Also, my hands are a little larger than average, and my palms are a little scooped out, so palm swell grips tend to work well for me. I try not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I have a sneaking suspicion that shooters of single action revolvers aren’t finding this type of rubber grip to work as well. However, the geometry of single action revolvers is considerably different than my Redhawk.
GripsStocks that are wide across the back strap, for me, tend to be the most comfortable and mitigate the pounding that a high energy round in a revolver will generate. As to your abbreviated intro, Shakespeare once said (in Hamlet) that, "Brevity is the soul of wit." George, you've become quite witty.
The design of the stock grip allows for more muzzle flip. That transfers the recoil in an arc away from your hand, otherwise you would get the full force of the recoil. The Pachmayr grip allows a tighter hold with less muzzle flip transferring the recoil in more of a straight line, hence, more felt recoil.
Years ago I had a TC Contender chambered in 45-70. The barrel was a Super 16 with a muzzle break. What I found shooting standard factory ammo the gun recoiled rather harshly into my hand (even with Pach "Decelerator" grips) because the "break" lessened muzzle flip forcing the recoil impulse to move straight back.
Thanks for your comment Kenneth. That's what I experienced and what I hoped to demonstrate on camera but the amount of that recoil impulse into the hand with the Pachmayr grips was just not visible.
I have a Ruger super black hawk and I have medium hands . I thought the standard grips were small, but the grip would slide in my hand during recoil. I switched to Pachmayer Grips and they were bigger I could use two hands better. Since then I switched to Houge Grips. I like these a lot except they have a bump out at the bottom that my little finger will not go around. if the bottom part was inline with the whole grip it would be the best, Great review!
For what its worth, I changed out the plow share grip on a Ruger Super Blackhawk, SS, 5.5" 44 magnum revolver with a Bisley conversion (includes trigger and hammer change). The grip angle of the Bisley agrees with me for natural aim, comfort and greater recoil management. I hadn't thought about grip width as a factor but the new Hogue exotic wood grips are fairly wide and give a full hand grip. So yes it helps too. I've not thought to compare recoil related to barrel length. The 5.5" now Bisley vs 7.5" Redhawk with the same ammo are hard to compare. I always shoot the Redhawk double action. Enjoyed the video.
Elmer Keith talk about recoil of heavy loads and that is why he designed the famous number 5 grip that being said he also said that that was why he like his ivory grips with a carving on the inside palm for controlling recoil so they actually have a function besides looking nice
Beautiful ruger. I don't have a Super Blackhawk, but I do have the other end of the spectrum, a 1976 Ruger Single Six. I'm learning how to do gunsmith work and it's an ongoing project but I'm sure it will be a sweet shooter when it's fixed up.
I have owned my redhawk since the 80's and have lost way more skin from my hands with the factory grips . When I put the patch myer grips on the skin ripping stopped and I shot more loads one handed comfortably . Not saying this is true for all , just in my experiences . I do think my pach. grips are thicker giving a full hand grip . I tried one set that was narrow and long that I hated . It was like holding a 1x4 board , not comfortable at all . Its all personal preference . Look around and find what works for you . I found mine , but if I found something else I liked the feel of would change . But have loved my set-up since I bought it in the late 80's . Shoot straight , shoot often .
Thanks for that. Yes I am sure there are many styles of Pachmayr grips now beyond what was available back in the 80s. And yes these old grips were like holding a 1x4.
A brother from another Mother here. I have a Redhawk from the early 80's too! Packmyer grips, 2x Leupold scope on a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Tried the same narrow grips and got the same results as you. I used a Red Dot load with 180 gr back in the day. Everything is 240 or higher now (thinking about bear defense).
Having owned and shot many 44 magnums in the last 50 years recoil IMO depends more on the weight of the gun than any other factor. Try a S&W 329 with full house loads and you will understand. The 329 is the only 44 that I could not shoot a full cylinder of heavy loads. Painful! I have a Model 69 that is slightly heavier and I can handle the recoil in it with soft grips like the Pachmayr Diamond Pro. The Ruger single actions tend to hit my middle knuckle with the trigger guard. My fault for gripping the revolver wrong but I cannot seem to break that habit. The Ruger Redhawk was the easiest to handle 44 I have had mainly because it is also the heaviest. Lots of 44 choices and anyone can find one they like. My favorite handgun caliber. Very versatile.
Thanks as always for your input! You are right. From a physics standpoint, adding mass is the only thing that will slow the recoil impulse. Things like grip design and barrel length will change the way that recoil is transferred to the shooter's hand.
Another reason Ruger shines like a new Diamond of the highest rating!! Weight makes a big difference and the engineers in Ruger R&D shows their expertise!! A 44 mag pistol is not a toy for sure! Ruger has tamed it well.
I fired one round from a S&W .44, and the checkered grips bit my hand. I used to know a guy that rapid fired 6 rounds DA from one of them, and his hand was bleeding. I found that the smooth (non checkered) Herretts Shooting Star grips not only make the grip longer, they also fill in the area behind the trigger guard. Those grips resolve everything except the noise. The absolute minimum load in the handloading manuals recoils like a .22 RF, but it still requires hearing protection.
Weight makes a huge difference. When I was developing a load for a 45-70 single shot, it showed best accuracy potential with hot loads and 405 grain bullets… and shooting it off a bench in cold weather was BRUTAL. Later added steel dual dovetail mount and scope, and it was amazing how much difference that makes.
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The demonstration you provided does show valid and interesting results. However; what it doesn’t show is difference in energy transfer to the shooting hand. Light objects react to energy output faster. A short barrel pistol is lighter in weight and produces a faster more powerful recoil pulse because of its lighter weight. However; a longer barrel pistol produces more recoil; because it also produces more velocity from the powder charge. The longer barrel being heavier doesn’t reduce recoil it just slows the effects. The longer barrel increases the sight radius for better precise aiming and increased velocities. Therefore; you can use lighter bullets to knock over targets at 200 meters or closer. Lighter bullets produce less recoil and the extra weight of the pistol makes it more pleasing to shoot. The Pachmayr grips being made of a recoil absorbing material cushion or slow the recoil effects not reduce it. They also reduce bruising your middle finger from it striking the trigger guard. They also position your grip higher than the stock grips allow. This directs the recoil straight back into your hand and reduces muzzle rise. If you limp wrist any handgun you lose control of consistent shot to shot accuracy. The recoil is absorber by your hand into your arm and body when you keep your wrist locked. Muzzle rise is reduced and accuracy improves. Comfort comes second to accuracy. Shooting handguns accurately requires hours of practice; more than any other firearm.
Thanks as always for your
I have the same revolvers and grips and, over the years, I’ve come to separate recoil (by shooting experience and mathematically) into recoil energy and recoil velocity. The snappier, high-pressure cartridges in lightweight firearms (revolver or rifle) have more recoil velocity and muzzle flip as you’ve wonderfully demonstrated. (Thanks.). The cartridges with lower pressure, especially if in heavier guns, will have lower recoil velocity. Both combinations can be loaded to the same recoil energy. In my experience, I’ve learned that I can maintain better accuracy by keeping recoil velocity down. So I’ve gravitated towards cartridges like 45Colt and 45-70 and 416 Rigby rather than their high-pressure counterparts. That, in a slightly heavier gun (e.g. longer barrel), mitigates perceived recoil and minimizes my flinch and helps me stay on target. I also used to shoot in IHMSA. Once you know the revolver is not going to fly out of your hand during recoil, it allows you to be more calm and ease up on the grip strength and maintain accuracy. The rubber grips, imo, are ugly but help with friction more and ensure confidence. With excessive muzzle flip, I struggle to keep my composure and flinch gets worse and I tend to apply too much grip pressure to keep the hammer off my hand.
Great comment. Thanks!
I learn to shoot 44 magnum years ago, using my Ruger 44 magnum 10.5 inch barrel. Full house loads. I was new to 44 mag. And accepted the recoil with the standard grips. I got used to it. I would normally shoot outside and my stance was two handed with my right cuped in my left. My right are was straight out, supported by left arm. I found it to very accurate to shoot cans and bottles out to eighty yards. I eventually switched to 45 acp in a colt commander steel semiautomatic. But I do shoot my old Ruger 44 magnum occasionally with enjoyment. Thank you for your video.
Fully agree. I've the same pistol and did the same thing. All I can say is hey shooter, leave them grips alone!
Great job, the best comparison I have seen.
Thanks! I appreciate that!
Great to see you sporting the "Just put a thumb in it" shirt George! Got one myself 🍻 I'm thinking that whole story will show that the firearms community and shirt sales are better than any medical insurance 🙂
👍👍
Boy, I sure wish you had a set of Steve Herrett's oversize grips to try! I had these on my Super Blackhawk 35 years ago.and they really helped with felt recoil and gun control. Glad I kept my set when I had to let my 10 1/2" stainless go back in the day.
Nice test!
Bob
Great video. My first and foremost thought is to mention Pachmayrs wear out. I have a few old sets for my S&W 29 & 19. I don’t shoot my revolvers as much as I did, but the long hours sitting on a shooting bench in the sun or in my chest rig leave the right side exposed to direct sunlight for hours and that will take its toll over time. It’s not like I need a new pair every year, but every 5 years I think makes a difference. The discoloration and cracking are the big reveals for me, and I don’t mind getting a new set if it looks like they need to be changed.
Thanks for that. I admit that these are old grips and Pachmayr probably makes better options now than these from the 1980s.
I put a set of oversized Herrett’s Troopers on my 7.5” Super. They make it very comfortable to shoot, especially since they fill in behind the trigger guard.
I have a Ruger Super Black Hawk with a 10.5" barrel also. I had the same experience when I put Pachmayr grips on it, it hit my hand much harder. Additionally to that the pebble texture of the grips started a friction burn after a couple of cylinders of 44 mag. I took the rubber grips off and put the original wood back on and had less perceived recoil and less hand pain after an extended range session. It seems that the wooden "plow handle" grips will slide through my hand which does increase muzzle flip, but softens the straight back punch into my hand. I am leaving the original grips on.
Thanks Rick. Your experience mirrors mine perfectly.
Nice work George
Thanks. I appreciate
It would be interesting to see a comparison between the standard super black hawk and the bisley style.
It just so happens, my cousin, who owns the 7 1/2" SBH also has a Bisely model. Video coming in a few weeks.
@@TargetSuite please share the link I also have big hands and currently have packmiers that with my hot loads and my 44 super Redhawk I'm starting to develop wrist pain and would like to learn more about different groups now that I'm retired and have more time to play.
The Bisley style grip handle recoil much better than Old Western style grip. I have a Taurus Raging Bull 454 Casull and a BFR 454 Casull in Bisley grip, the Raging Bull snapped my hand every single shot while the BFR Bisley just rolled in my hand. For heavy and sharp recoiling caliber the Bisley style grip is my choice.
Hand size has a lot to do with what type of grip you prefer too! With this this type of pistol and caliber size muzzle flip (like you said) comes with the territory. So in conclusion it’s just a preference on which style grip fits your hand best.
Great video and bad ass pistols you got there! 👍🏻
I like the intro and glad you kept the kiddo;"Don't do that again!"
Thanks. My grandaughter's cry will remain as long as I do 😉
Your testing proved what I have long known, thank you. The strength of the Single Action grip is that it allows the handgun to "roll" in your hand, dissipating felt recoil. The Pachmayr grips negate that Single Action feature by eliminating the rolling in your hand, thereby causing recoil to be more straight line to the rear, making your hand soak up the recoil, increasing felt recoil.
It was awesome to see the Super Blackhawk "roll" in action. The way you held it is exactly the way you should to avoid the "Dragoon trigger knuckle guard buster" that many Super Blackhawk shooters complain about.
You should make a "How to properly shoot a Super Blackhawk" video. Most people hold them too tight, then complain when they get wacked by the trigger guard. If you check other TH-cam pages on the Super Blackhawk almost everyone bitches about it. Some go as far as to use the grips that cover the area behind the trigger guard to avoid getting their knuckle busted.
Great video! Just what I was looking for. Difference between two lengths of 44 magnum barrels
Very Interesting. I've noticed that with my extra large hands, a bisley grip makes a big difference compared to a traditional single action army grip in felt recoil, especially with .357.
Thanks Paul! I'll find out in a couple of weeks when I borrow my cousin's Ruger Bisley 44 Magnum
@@TargetSuite What did you find out using the Bisley grips?
I have a Vaquero Bisley and started off with my hunting loads. It really is fun to shoot. 240 xtp over 22.5 w296.
The big advantage of the Pachmayr grips on a Super with the square-backed trigger guard is that it keeps your middle finger from getting hammered with every shot.
I've found that the Bisley grip setup is wonderful on the big bores (.44 Mag/45 Colt), especially given it's extra length, so all your fingers are wrapped around the grip - no "pinkies high."
My dad has 357 mag revolver from Colt that has an 8 3/8” barrel and Hogue grips (maybe Pachmeyer, don’t remember). It fills the hand nicely though and, compared to a 4” barrel, the recoil is substantially different. I prefer the convenience of the short barrel but the long booger shoots much better! It makes this grown man smile! Unless it’s Buffalo Bore 180 gr. Then I wince just a tad!
Ah, I've got some of those BB 180's. I'm saving them for my new Blackhawk, whenever it comes!
Great information. Thanks. I have always been a big bore fan and I'm not recoil sensitive. My Ruger Hunter with Bisley grips is fun to shoot, but it is also the heaviest 44 I own. I also think that the Bisley grip frame gets the bore axis down and helps with flip, but that is subjective. Would love to see a video comparing the standard grip frame to the Bisley grip frame. Thanks again.
I just happen to have a Ruger Bisley on hand. The video will be coming in a few weeks
A friend of mine had 3 Smith & Wessons, a 6", a 8-3/8"in model 629, and a 10-5/8th" in 29. The 2 longer barrel revolvers were much more enjoyable for me to shoot. They all had the checkered Goncalo Alves grips which grabbed the skin on your hand and tried to rip it off. LOL The 6" being the worst. They were all very accurate, and nice revolvers. After a shooting session, he asked me my opinion. I think it hurt his feelings when I told him. LOL I told him, if they were mine that I would rasp the sharp checkering off the grips. The reason I was testing the revolvers was that he thought they had accuracy issues. They did not, but he had a serious flinch problem. The 10-5/8th" shot under 2' groups at 50 yards off the bench, the 8-3/8' was around 2" and the 6" around 3". That 6" sure wasn't fun for me. LOL
Great story! Thanks for sharing.
I myself had a .44 Super Redhawk with 9.5 in. Barrell and the S&W Model 15 .38 caliber Police Special w/Pachmyar grips but didn't use the Pachmyar grips on the 44; I found that enough 250 grain semi-wadcutters and range time, and then strengthen my wrist using weight training at home using weighted cans on cord and a large Dowel rolling it up and down starting out with light weight and building up over several months I began to be able to easily control the muzzle rise and shock. I had to start out using 1.5 lb can of water and work up to nails and then finally lead shot. I was rolling up and down at the end of about 6 months 8 lbs of shot in a large bush's baked beans can full of bird shot and lead scrap that I just got from the trap at the indoor range that they gave me for free. Everyone probably remembers doing this in gym class at one time or another. I was a wrestler in school though, so I did pegboard as well and became exceedingly strong in my wrists and forearms so I didn't have much of a problem after all the wrist training rolling the can up and down arms straight out in front of me elbows tuck & locked out and just go up and down as many times as I could til it burned like that bonfire 🔥 in the backyard on the weekend. I got to the point I could fire 248 grain silver tipped hollow points in the 44, and 128 grain silver tipped hollow points for the 38 hot loads as I could find for both. And my 1911 I could fire single handed and my Winchester 30-30 lever one handed and be deadly accurate. I'd hate to have had to test myself at my accuracy and steady hand. I got really, really scary accurate actually. With all of my weapons one hand or two. Glad I never needed to find out for real not once 👮🏻♂️😯😎. Truly blessed not to have had to.
I appreciate that you took time to write that comment. And you bring up a really good point for us more mature Shooters. And that is that if we're not careful we will lose strength and muscle mass, both of which can affect our ability to shoot well and shoot comfortably.
That’s a lot of work to put together, well done 👏
Thanks!
Late to the party on this video, but I was just directed here off of a TH-cam Ruger Blackhawk page. I liked the educational video and I am now subscribed and I will be perusing the channel. It is also nice to see you sporting one of Scott’s shirts 👍
George, The standard grip of the Single Action Revolver was designed to pivot at the trigger finger and thus the heel of the grip was to slide under the clinched grip. rotating muzzle upward and thus allowing the hammer spur to come closer to the thumb for its use to cock the hammer for a faster second shot. Of course the original intended Army Calvary trooper would know that his grip was not a death grip but one that allowed the revolver to move in the hand. But today people are taught to hold a handgun with a tight grip, so recoil is transferred to the entire arm and the force of energy causes the elbow to flex.
Thanks for that! You are right in that we have "modernized" how we manage the old, and proven, design. And for a lot of folks it doesn't work as well as the original intent.
I thoroughly enjoy these videos. You remind me of the professors I once enjoyed in college that made every day interesting. I never get tired of expanding my knowledge of various subjects. Why I was once called Mr. Twenty Questions.
I put Pachmayr grips on my 10.5 inch Super Blackhawk decades ago. In my opinion, my hand hurts less than with the wood grips. Thank you for the video.
Thanks. I appreciate that!
Well done. Great video, and the shorter the intro the better, got to watch these when there’s time.
Thanks for watching!
I bought my Super Blackhawk in 1965 (when I was 21) when they were available only blued and with a 7.5" barrel. I found the recoil to be a bit severe, so I bought a set of Herretts Shooting Star grips with a figure in the grain of the wood, NOT checkering. I had fired a S&W .44 Mag and did not like having the checkered grips biting my hand. The new grips were larger and longer, and they let the revolver roll back in my hand when it was fired. It was much more comfortable to shoot and the revolver stopped rolling back when the hammer was in the web between my thumb and first finger. There was no pain like there is when shooting a 1911A1 with an arched housing. The only pain I experienced was in my ears, especially on the days that I forgot to bring my ear valves to the range. Back in those days I shot one handed Olympic style, which is why today I always use my left ear for the telephone.
Great comments! Thanks for sharing. I remember the checkered grips on my S&W 41 Magnum being rough on the hand.
Prayers for Scott and his family.
👍
Have been shooting my Ruger 7.5" SBH since 1985 and reloading for it since 1987. I do not know how many 10,000s of rounds it has through it but has had 3 different grips on it. Factory, Pachmayr and now sports Hogue grips. The Pachmayrs were used until they started splitting. The Hogues are by far the best. My load of choice are 300grn Castcore/Grizzly Cart. WFNGCs over a 'not in any manual' heavy load of H110. They shows no signs of pressure and are extremely accurate and devastating for hunting. It also pairs up nicely with mi 16" Winch. Trapper in 44 Mag. I can shoot a large amount, over 50 at one sitting with out any discomfort. Hogues are the way to go on my pistol and with my loads.
Thanks. I appreciate your insight into different grips.
This is a very interesting video, especially stopping the slow motion film at various stages. The Colt single action gripframe was designed to allow the gun to rotate in the hand and dissipate the recoil that way. This worked for around 100 years, until Ruger chambered their single action in .44 mag. That one, when it rotates, puts the sharp edges of the frame at the base of the hammer into the top of the web of your hand and that hurts. Other grip shapes can reduce the rolling but at the expense off transferring the recoil into another part of your hand. People like John Linebaugh started using the Ruger Bisley grip in the heavy recoiling calibers to help reduce the rolling of the gun. When you put on the rubber Pachmayr grips they have greater friction with your hand and in a gun that wants to roll a lot the rubber sticks to your skin and wants to peel it off of your hand. You have to choose which of these options to reduce rolling of the gun are the least uncomfortable to you.
The only issue I ever had with my Super Blackhawk was the squared trigger guard occasionally hitting the knuckle on my middle finger. It is enough to let you know it but not enough to drop the gun or stop shooting it.
I pulled all my Pachmayr grips and replaced them with Hogue - never going back.
Thanks for your comment. I need to check out those Hogue grips.
@@TargetSuite I put a $12 Hogue sleeve on my Beretta PX4 Storm and it went from slip-sliding around in my hand to world-class stable, and it's on the *_larger_* side of average for a grip to begin with.
Interesting topic and a very nicely done video! LOL on the Candied Sweet Potatoes!
Thanks!
I use Hogue finger groove grips on Ruger Redhawk seems to help .I've had several different guns over my lifetime .I also have a Tauras its recoil is a beast.
Thanks for sharing James!
Why does my wrist hurt? I was only watching…
Haha! I'm sure it was a sympathetic response on your part!
The walnut grips look proper
And from my humble perspective, they feel proper as well.
Reminds me of my .22 single six
Great DNA. It runs thru all the Ruger revolvers.
Pachymar grips cover up the flat on the trigger guard on the super Blackhawk makes it easier to shoot
Yep. I liked that part, but the narrow back of the grip was pretty uncomfortable under recoil. Maybe a current grip from them wouldn't have that problem. Thanks for the comment!
I have found as you did that the Pachmayr grip was unpleasant to shoot with my Super Blackhawk, when the gun would roll back and up, the grip would adhere to and try to tear the skin in my palm,, or at least blister it with much shooting of full house handloads, especially 300 grain bullets. I didn't care for the Hogue rubber grip either, (although I prefer them on my S&W revolers) because it would not let the gun roll, or rotate up in the hand somewhat and transfers all of that torque into the wrist. I have a meaty pair of stag grips on mine (SBH) that work quite well. I urge you to give a Bisley Blackhawk a try, I purchased a 5 1/2 inch Ruger Bisley (large frame ala Super Blackhawk) in .45 Colt a few years ago as a stable mate to the aforementioned 4 5/8s Super Blackhawk. I think you would be amazed at the difference in the recoil impulse. I never believed it until I tried it. Now that I'm North of 50, I don't shoot much of the 300 grain and heavier loads anymore, no need and my hands can't take a lot of that anymore. However I am shooting pretty much identical ballistics out of these two Rugers. The .44 is shooting 260 grain Rim Rock Keith semi wadcutters at 1,340, and the .45 Colt is shooting Rim Rock 270 grain Keith semi wadcutters at 1,335. The way the Bisley grip handles recoil is very noticeable, give it a try, love ❤️ old school big bore sixguns. Good video and test sir, keep it up and we'll done!
Thanks for your very comprehensive comment. I'm glad someone else agreed with me on those big Pachmayr grips. Just not comfortable under heavy recoil.
I understand what you are talkin about and I have a 44 magnum 7 & a half inch barrel. I also have a set of aftermarket grips on it because my middle finger was taking so much abuse from that the trigger guard that I couldn't fire it. It hurt my hand so bad I found some Walnut grips somewhere a long time ago that puts my third finger below the trigger guard eliminated my finger from being smashed from recoil. Another reason that I changed grips was because the original grips were just too small. Again, thank you for the video, it was most informative.
Thanks. I really appreciate your comment. My finger was getting slapped but it was tolerable for the amount of shooting I was doing it. I just picked up a new 44 magnum Ruger Vaquero in the shape of that trigger guard is much more finger friendly.
Shooting off hand standing position, the standard grip on the single action allows me to shot my hottest loads with the least felt recoil, the bisley style and Smith&wesson combat style allows for more control, accuracy, and faster follow up shots.
The single action plow grip is still my favorite most the majority.
Couldn't agree more! Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
I've never been a big fan of Pachmyr plastic grips. I believe that the Hogue tamer grips are far superior.
I'm curious what your experiences would be with a Bisley grip frame.
That's a good question. My cousin brought his Bisley Ruger over the other day and I was not a big fan. It may be more that I don't like the style but it also didn't feel right in the hand. But I think it's really just a personal preference.
Hoag grips are more hand filling, I wonder what those results would look like?
Wonderful video thanks for all your time
Thanks. I appreciate your comment!
Have you fired a Bisley style gripframe Blackhawk compared to the standard plowhandle? Any idea how the Bisley grip functions in comparison? I've read many places that recoil can be controlled a little better with Bisley grip.
My cousin brought over a Bisley several months ago. I did not like the handle. It may just be personal preference but I didn't sense any Improvement in recoil or controllability with the Bisley design
@@TargetSuite Thanks for the opinion.
You, sir, are full of common sense knowledge and you deserve all the help! Thank you sir!
You cant shoot a 44 mag single handed anyway, so why would you want a shorter barrel in the first place unless your running 44 special or blackpowder 44-40? The blackhawks overbuilt frame was obviously never designed for concealability in the first place. The 5.5" barrel that came on my S-Blackhawk is nothing but loud, obnoxious, uncontrollable and pointless.
First thing I did when I purchased my used Blackhawk and Redhawk was remove the hogue and pachmyer grip and put the stock grip back on. They feel better in my hands. Grips may only change felt recoil. Individual grip, strength, etc varies with every individual shooter.
Hi David. I'm with you. I really prefer the stock grips.
@@TargetSuite First person to agree with me today! Love my single action Rugers. Can't say the same about stock grips on my Smith's. I have a Highway Patrol with stock grips. You're right, 357 is nothing compared to shooting 44mag. 44 special is the way to go for nice, enjoyable shooting.
Great instructional video.
Thanks
Looks like my old Super Blackhawk
Recoil is a topic that shooters are curious about but it's hard to quantify. The 4 screens together with the reference line was the best way I saw yet to show recoil. Cool video!
Commenting for algorithm purposes
And I appreciate that for sure! Thanks!
This is great!
Thanks!
Two thumbs up.,.
Thanks. I appreciate that!
Those hard cast bullets what is the coding of the bullet on their website none say ‘hardcast”
"Hardcast" is kind of a loose term. It generally refers to a lead alloy that is harder than pure lead. How hard it has to be is not specific. But the higher the Brinnel (BHN) number the harder the alloy and similarly the higher the number the faster can load up your rounds without leading up your bore. I appreciate your watching!
Yes it does even if just perceived. The shorter barrel is lighter so that affects it and the muzzle blast s closer to your face on a shorter barrels so you feel the muzzle blast more
Amen!
I gotta say this the wood grips with the squared off trigger guard the squared off trigger guard will hit your fingers and make them bleed the other grips you had will keep your fingers from bleeding after shooting at a bunch
I'm going to try out a modern version of the Pachmayr or Hogue grits in the future. Those old Pachmayr grips were the pits..
I bought a .44 western style revolver in the early 70's. I don't know about barrel length, but style is a major factor. I have shot what I call "Police style" .44's and they tend to kick to the right. Your western style kicks straight back into your wrist and after a couple cylinders my wrist starts to hurt.
That's interesting. I have found with age comes a reluctance to punish myself like I did in my foolish youth. Hot loads just aren't fun anymore. Regardless of the gun😉😉
I found myself putting Hogue grips on my Blackhawk 44. With a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Found if I didn't that end of the trigger guard would cut up my knuckle...but with some hotter loads it's like shooting of a hand cannon lol...found I like just shooting a cowboy load out of it..lighter load of gun powder in them....
Thanks for your comment. And sorry for the late reply. I guess I've gotten to the point in life where really hot handgun loads I just not pleasant to shoot. I punched my man card decades ago so now like you I can just enjoy the lighter loads.
The slo-mo comparo is fantastic! Lots to consider here.
Thanks. And thanks for watching!
I have enjoyed Hogue grips on K frame and J frame S&W revolvers, and I experimented with hot loads and controllability in them. Great video comparison.
Thanks. I appreciate that!
Wound up getting barrels ported too help in the wrist wrenching! Just be aware of ported barrels are not recommended when using shot cartridges! If you have a lot of snakes in your travels keep this in mind! For safety reasons!
Had a Ruger Blackhawk with 4 5/8 inch barrel. The hard recoil damaged the cartilage in my right wrist for life! Have to be careful about what I load and how I handle hard recoil! Back before I knew about bisley or packmier grips! Past recoil gloves! Very good information! Also noticed trigger loop bite and hammer gouging! God bless you and thank you for the video!
Interesting, way back in the mid-70s my friend (gun shop owner) and I (part-time employee) ran our own un-scientific test on the recoil of the model 29 and the Ruger Super Blackhawk. Used the same Remington 240 gr ammo in both, the Smith was a 6.5 in barrel and the Ruger a 7.5. We both felt the Ruger western-style recoil was a rolling back, while the 29 English-style (our term) revolver pushed comparatively straight back. (Much less roll). We did not change any grips, it never occurred to us. Duh. And I was still new to shooting and knew even less than I now know.
Love the shirt man!
Thanks. I'm sure glad he has recovered.
Definitely!
👍👍
I've found it more comfortable to shoot a lighter load in my 44 black hawk or if I'm loading my own bullet will choice a lighter load of powder....some of that factory loads are hot....
I'm with you. The days of punishing maximum loads are behind to me. I've paid my dues and now I just want to enjoy the shooting experience. Yes I'll still shoot some Maximum loads occasionally but generally not.
Can you do a comparable video with the Hogue overmolded grips. That’s what I have on my super Blackhawk and it’s very comfortable to shoot
I don't have any of those grips to compare, but I'm going to the NRA show in September. Maybe I can pick up a pair for a "very reasonable" price while I'm there😉
I’ve always preferred the wood grips on my revolvers (with the exception of Colt’s plastic grips on there peacemaker). I have a fairly wide hand but short fingers. The standard grips fit my hand. Target grips or wide grips of any kind are too big for me to get a good grip. I haven’t fired a .44 mag for years but I still remember how much fun it was. Another interesting video.
Thanks! I prefer the standard ribs as well.
Hey, that's a Cooler Master HAF XB computer case in the background at your loading bench.
Outstanding case. I have two of them and will never build another computer in a standard case again.
Yes it is! And I love it. It's so easy to work on and easier to transport.
Had one just like your 10 in ,I put the same rubber grips on it so the trigger gaurd did not cut into my hand on recoil
Length equals weight equals less recoil!
The back of the trigger guard is hard on my middle finger. Other than that, with medium reloads, my 7.5" barrel not too much recoil. Still got scars on my thumb until I learned to put it on the side.
I can answer this before I even watch you shoot. The Pachmayr grip is going to be a bit more uncomfortable when shooting but it tend to make the bullet strike more stable. The long barrel, the 7 and 1/2 + 10 and 1/2 inch barrel have a lot of dwell time when the primer is ignited to the bullet leaves the barrel. That means any change in your grip will change the point of impact. Original grips on the 44 will allow it to slide through the hand more consistently. Making a more consistent point of impact as long as you are holding it the same each time. I still use the Pachmayr grip once in awhile if I'm using it in the field. But I was able to shoot Super Blackhawk, five rounds in the span of about three to four seconds, and put them all in a single hole at an indoor range anytime. They are supremely Accurate Firearms with the right load and the right hold. Addition, I practiced with both gripping the firearm Tighter and allowing it to just sit in my hand, and it did change the point of impact so you have to be cognizant of how tight your gripping the firearm at the time that it goes off. I got considerably different points of impact by gripping the firearm harder, it would impact lower than if I allowed it to just go ahead and flip in my hand with no resistance. When I shot a four and 5/8 inch gun. The impact change was minimized greatly.
If you get the chance, compare the standard factory Ruger grips to a Ruger Bisley grip frame…shooting the same hot .45 Colt (Ruger only maximum 255gr hard cast and powder coated hand loads) in my 5 1/2”Blackhawks and my 5 1/2” Bisleys the recoil is much more manageable and way less painful. With the Bisley’s longer and different shaped grip design recoil is more “straight” back with way less muzzle flip than the Blackhawks more traditional grip shape (which rolls in my hand and can be uncomfortable especially with Stag Grips.). I do enjoy your channel 👍👍👍
I have both of these grips for my 7 1/2' barreled Super Blackhawk. I much prefer the Pachmayr. For me, they reduce felt recoil and wrist and hand shock.
One thing for sure, everyone's hands are different. I guess that's why there are so many aftermarket😎
I got hogue grip on my 45 and uncalmike on my 44 they help a lot
I can see the 7 1/2 Ruger has a larger cylinder/forcing cone gap. That might be a slight factor.
You are right about the gap, and the slo-mo really pointed out that extra flash.
About to watch the entire video. My guess is longer barrel = more velocity = more recoil.
The longer barrel does mean more velocity, which at least partly offsets the added mass of the gun. I should have shot both guns across the chronograph to answer that question up front.
Love the shirt. Still waiting on mine. I have a 38spl derringerish pistol and I do believe it shows less recoil than my snubby revolver. All of the pressure dumps just pass the case in the derringer.
👍👍
Best use for candied sweet potatoes.** ;)
Oh yes!
Absolutely barrel length and grip style make a difference. I have several different types of .44 magnum varying from 4-5/8 Ruger super blackhawk with old style grip to 7- 1/2"super blackhawk with standard and bisley grip . Two S&W mod 29 , one a 29-2 and one29-6 with a round grip frame and hogue rubber grips . Huge difference in recoil per model.
Amen! I've got the Bisley coming up in a week or two. It will be my first time with that style of grip!
Wood looks cool Rubber grips shoot lots better
I just got an N frame with smooth large wood grips They are too slick , I am going to add a rubber grip , same as nearly every handgun I own .
@Dan O'Neill thanks for your comment. You may be right. But I only had one rubber grip to compare to and it was the pits!
Thank you very much George , I really enjoy your videos!
Thank you!
The slo-mo is fascinating. Many years ago, I bought Pachmayrs for a Blackhawk, and quickly went back to the stock grips. Pachmayr Grippers on my wife’s old M66 duty gun, my .44 Mountain Gun, and my Python are great for keeping a gun anchored in your hand. But perceived recoil is more than just the math. A heavy load in my Mountain Gun is more uncomfortable than a heavier load in my Freedom Arms .454 with its smooth single action grip. We often perceive more recoil in the shorter guns with their quick muzzle rise, but science says the same load develops more energy in a longer barrel. I think your video shows us that.
Thanks. I appreciate that!. And yes recoil has two components. One is muscle flip and the other is what your hand feels i.e. the pain level. We can indeed help control that muzzle flip but the end result is that our pain takes a different kind of beating than the bending of the wrist.
OSIYO GEORGE, THE NEW INTRO IS GOOD BUT I PERSONALLY DIDN'T MIND YOUR OLD INTRO. I SAW IN THE COMMENTS THAT WAS SOMETHING YOUR DAD SAID A LOT. THAT'S AWESOME YOU USE THAT TO HONOR HIM! I HAVE SHOT A LOT OF SINGLE ACTION REVOLVERS FROM 4 3/4"- 5 1/2" - 7 1/2" WITH DIFFERENT GRIPS. BUT ALWAYS WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL WOOD ONES. I HAVE FOUND (FOR ME ANYWAY) THAT IF I SLIGHTLY BEND MY ELBOW AND LOCK MY WRIST IT HELP WITH AIMING WITH A STRAP NOTCH REAR SIGHT,AND HELPS A LOT WITH THE SINGLE ACTION ROLE OF THE RECOIL. GEORGE WERE CAN I FIND ONE OF THOSE MAGIC SCREWDRIVERS? I NEED ONE! GREAT VIDEO
Thanks Terry! By the way you can find all kinds of "magic" tips on the top row of a Wheeler engineering screwdriver kit😎
I have a Redhawk 44 mag 5-1/2” barrel. When I first got it, both 200 grain and 240 grain Underwood rounds really spanked my hands hard. I didn’t really want to shoot over 12 to 18 rounds. I went back to the range the next week, but had the same trouble, and had started developing a flinch.
I remembered that a friend had let me shoot his Redhawk 41 Mag back in the 80’s, and he kept telling me that it would not be punishing to me because he’d installed Pachmayr grips, and had it mag-na-ported. I didn’t know how it performed before, but I really enjoyed shooting that blued beauty!
I figured the least expensive option that I could try would be the grips. I installed a set of 3140 Presentation Pachmayr grips (because they looked the closest to the ones that Randy had) and went back to the range. What a difference! The experience is now much more comfortable, even with 305 grain Underwood loads, the most powerful that I’ve used so far!
I'm glad that worked out for you. I suspect that some Modern Pachmayr grips have they improved over these from the 80s
@@TargetSuite Maybe. I actually think that the actual gun model (handle configuration), grip model, and how those relate to your hand size have a lot to do with the grip’s effectiveness.
I read a lot of reviews of specific grip models. Also, my hands are a little larger than average, and my palms are a little scooped out, so palm swell grips tend to work well for me. I try not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I have a sneaking suspicion that shooters of single action revolvers aren’t finding this type of rubber grip to work as well. However, the geometry of single action revolvers is considerably different than my Redhawk.
Yes the Redhawk is a different animal altogether.
GripsStocks that are wide across the back strap, for me, tend to be the most comfortable and mitigate the pounding that a high energy round in a revolver will generate.
As to your abbreviated intro, Shakespeare once said (in Hamlet) that, "Brevity is the soul of wit." George, you've become quite witty.
Haha! Tom I really appreciate you! 😄
Yep. I made extra wide grips out of cherry for mine back in the 70's and everybody that shot it said it felt better than theirs.
The design of the stock grip allows for more muzzle flip. That transfers the recoil in an arc away from your hand, otherwise you would get the full force of the recoil. The Pachmayr grip allows a tighter hold with less muzzle flip transferring the recoil in more of a straight line, hence, more felt recoil.
Yes sir. That's it in a nutshell!
Years ago I had a TC Contender chambered in 45-70. The barrel was a Super 16 with a muzzle break. What I found shooting standard factory ammo the gun recoiled rather harshly into my hand (even with Pach "Decelerator" grips) because the "break" lessened
muzzle flip forcing the recoil impulse to move straight back.
Thanks for your comment Kenneth. That's what I experienced and what I hoped to demonstrate on camera but the amount of that recoil impulse into the hand with the Pachmayr grips was just not visible.
I have a Ruger super black hawk and I have medium hands . I thought the standard grips were small, but the grip would slide in my hand during recoil. I switched to Pachmayer Grips and they were bigger I could use two hands better. Since then I switched to Houge Grips. I like these a lot except they have a bump out at the bottom that my little finger will not go around. if the bottom part was inline with the whole grip it would be the best, Great review!
Thanks for your comment. And thanks for
Ok this is an interesting topic to be applied across any big bore.
For what its worth, I changed out the plow share grip on a Ruger Super Blackhawk, SS, 5.5" 44 magnum revolver with a Bisley conversion (includes trigger and hammer change). The grip angle of the Bisley agrees with me for natural aim, comfort and greater recoil management. I hadn't thought about grip width as a factor but the new Hogue exotic wood grips are fairly wide and give a full hand grip. So yes it helps too.
I've not thought to compare recoil related to barrel length. The 5.5" now Bisley vs 7.5" Redhawk with the same ammo are hard to compare. I always shoot the Redhawk double action.
Enjoyed the video.
Thanks for that. I will be reviewing the Ruger Bisley in the near future.
Elmer Keith talk about recoil of heavy loads and that is why he designed the famous number 5 grip that being said he also said that that was why he like his ivory grips with a carving on the inside palm for controlling recoil so they actually have a function besides looking nice
Love the t-shirt! Physics (object in motion...) seems to trump conventional wisdom (heavier gun = less recoil). Interesting video!
Thanks. I appreciate your comment!
Beautiful ruger. I don't have a Super Blackhawk, but I do have the other end of the spectrum, a 1976 Ruger Single Six. I'm learning how to do gunsmith work and it's an ongoing project but I'm sure it will be a sweet shooter when it's fixed up.
Thanks for watching. You should check out my two videos on the Ruger single six. I'm in the middle of a journey with mine as well.
I have owned my redhawk since the 80's and have lost way more skin from my hands with the factory grips . When I put the patch myer grips on the skin ripping stopped and I shot more loads one handed comfortably . Not saying this is true for all , just in my experiences . I do think my pach. grips are thicker giving a full hand grip . I tried one set that was narrow and long that I hated . It was like holding a 1x4 board , not comfortable at all . Its all personal preference . Look around and find what works for you . I found mine , but if I found something else I liked the feel of would change . But have loved my set-up since I bought it in the late 80's . Shoot straight , shoot often .
Thanks for that. Yes I am sure there are many styles of Pachmayr grips now beyond what was available back in the 80s. And yes these old grips were like holding a 1x4.
A brother from another Mother here. I have a Redhawk from the early 80's too! Packmyer grips, 2x Leupold scope on a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Tried the same narrow grips and got the same results as you. I used a Red Dot load with 180 gr back in the day. Everything is 240 or higher now (thinking about bear defense).
Having owned and shot many 44 magnums in the last 50 years recoil IMO depends more on the weight of the gun than any other factor. Try a S&W 329 with full house loads and you will understand. The 329 is the only 44 that I could not shoot a full cylinder of heavy loads. Painful! I have a Model 69 that is slightly heavier and I can handle the recoil in it with soft grips like the Pachmayr Diamond Pro. The Ruger single actions tend to hit my middle knuckle with the trigger guard. My fault for gripping the revolver wrong but I cannot seem to break that habit.
The Ruger Redhawk was the easiest to handle 44 I have had mainly because it is also the heaviest. Lots of 44 choices and anyone can find one they like. My favorite handgun caliber. Very versatile.
Thanks as always for your input! You are right. From a physics standpoint, adding mass is the only thing that will slow the recoil impulse. Things like grip design and barrel length will change the way that recoil is transferred to the shooter's hand.
I’ve owned 2 69s and they are sweet
Another reason Ruger shines like a new Diamond of the highest rating!! Weight makes a big difference and the engineers in Ruger R&D shows their expertise!! A 44 mag pistol is not a toy for sure! Ruger has tamed it well.
I fired one round from a S&W .44, and the checkered grips bit my hand. I used to know a guy that rapid fired 6 rounds DA from one of them, and his hand was bleeding. I found that the smooth (non checkered) Herretts Shooting Star grips not only make the grip longer, they also fill in the area behind the trigger guard. Those grips resolve everything except the noise. The absolute minimum load in the handloading manuals recoils like a .22 RF, but it still requires hearing protection.
Weight makes a huge difference. When I was developing a load for a 45-70 single shot, it showed best accuracy potential with hot loads and 405 grain bullets… and shooting it off a bench in cold weather was BRUTAL. Later added steel dual dovetail mount and scope, and it was amazing how much difference that makes.