What Conservatism Really Means - Roger Scruton in Conversation with Hamza Yusuf
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- Roger Scruton and Hamza Yusuf meet in the library of Zaytuna College to have a wide-ranging discussion on the true meaning of conservatism.
Roger Scruton is philosopher of politics and aesthetics. He has authored more than fifty books on culture, philosophy, and religion, including A Dictionary of Political Thought and How to Be a Conservative. He received his Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of Cambridge in 1972 and is currently pursuing his interest in the philosophy of music. He is a Fellow of the Humanities Research Institute and Course Director of the M.A. in Philosophy at the University of Buckingham.
Hamza Yusuf is a leading proponent of classical learning in Islam. He is president of Zaytuna College, and has taught courses on Islamic jurisprudence, ethics, astronomy, logic, theology, prophetic biography, and hadith, as well as other subjects. He has published numerous articles and translations, including The Prayer of the Oppressed and Purification of the Heart. He also serves as vice president for the Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies, an international initiative that seeks to address the root causes that can lead to radicalism and militancy.
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Produced by Safir Ahmed & Najeeb Hasan
Additional Production & Film Editing by Imran Ali Malik
Set Direction/Camera: Haroon Sellars & Tefari Casis
As a Muslim who loves Hamza and as a Conservative who is influenced by thinkers such as Roger Scruton, Edmund Burke and Russell Kirk I absolutely love this video. May God grant both of these enlightened men long lives with sound minds, Insh'Allah.
If conservatives were more like Sir Roger, and Muslims more like Mr. Yusuf, this would be a far saner world.
PsyVen
Agreed !
You win the point of this. Bravo!
They are, vastly so. It's just, you don't see or hear about those ones! It takes one idiot to push a boulder in to a hole and a thousand to get it out!
mahometanism is an enemy of sanity.
@@quebecwammernet475 indeed!
I experience an 'internal ecstasy' every time I'm listening to a great mind (or two) speaking. It is very rare in our world today.
Yes. Can relate sister !
I know what you mean, Hana. Here I'll probably seem like an old Geezer reminiscing about "The Good Old Days," but there was a time in America when it was not at all unusual for Americans to watch and listen to learned and intelligent discourse on television - way before cable or media platforms such as TH-cam came into existence. TV Programs presented by brilliant people such as conservative William F. Buckley, Jr.and liberal David Susskind were able to draw large audiences.
Today, we have to deal not only with the SARS-2 virus but also with the pandemics of Stupidity and Ignorance, for which our nation's once great educational system is largely to blame, thanks to "educators" who are True Believers in the grossly misnamed secular religion of Progressivism, which should be called Socialism-Light. If China overtakes the U.S. as the world's leading nation it will do so not only because of its military superiority but because Chinese educators are teaching their students The Basics, while teachers in American Elementary Schools are instructing their students "vital subjects" such as the correct way to put a condom on a cucumber.
Knowledge is the food of the soul
I know just what you mean. It's always very uplifting. And I swear it makes our minds expand too, even a little.
“Pleasure has driven out Joy” such wonderful intellectual discussion
“Narcissism is Joyless” ...
Yes. Since I began to look for Joy rather than happiness. I've found way more fulfillment.
Roger Scruton, one of the most polite, gracious and interesting men I have ever met.
Such conversations are heard far too little in the mainstream. Good that we have TH-cam!
Literally every sentence of this conversation is incredibly profound. Two brilliant minds.
The failure of the conservative to be as good at articulating criticism of the status quo, as the Left is of expressing the same and then coming up with solutions that make everything worse (sounds like default mode for many modern marriages...), is the stage for the rise of both the alt-Right and Jordan Peterson.
...and for me personally, reversion to Islam. Because looking at it, I can't blame the conservative for this failure. He lacks the tools. In his good manners he has lost the art of hermeneutics of the Feminine.
@@lionelchan1601
mahometanism dulls the mind.
This is why I Love Hamza. Very few men (esp/unfortunately Muslims) of our age can allow themselves to be balanced enough to have a sincere dialogue with one another (esp. an intellectual giant like Professor Roger). While, at the same time, be immediately surrounded by the very people who they're speaking of.
May both of these Men be blessed & honored with long & successful lives of service to God.
Amen.
'of whom they are speaking '
I would have loved to hear Sir Roger Scruton speak more in this discussion.
Sh.Hamza Yusuf does like to talk, and Sir Roger Scruton is polite not to interrupt him, but I think they dance pretty well all in all!
Roger Scruton is a man full of wisdom
love, what a great level of conversation....literature, manners, virtue (courtesy) Adab, decorum.
An hour usefully and productively spent, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The question Roger asks about "where are the Islamic Intellectuals?". I think its a very important question. In my view, Islam, in its struggle with confronting the modern times, has taken a back seat instead of the driving seat. In many ways, it lag behinds the role, it should have been playing. But it is still a driving force in the hearts of billions of human beings who somewhat live there lives morally around the family structures and have the virtues of generosity and empathy. And going passive rather than active helped Islam to negate any real corruption which other religions like Christianity have gone through.
I would say that, we need Islamic Intellectuals for the betterment of the Modern World as was said by Roger. And Zaytuna is doing it as was said by Sheikh Hamza.
People have forgotten their religion. Simple as that.
@@theresonlyone8881
mahometanism dulls the mind.
Great conversation. Roger Scruton was recommended by a researcher/historian I respect, and this is the first video I selected - my first time listening to both men.
I look forward to listening to other interviews/talks by Scruton bc he didn’t really get to talk much in this one. :-) At about 51 minutes I just realized that I haven’t heard his voice complete a full sentence in about 10mins, only Yusuf’s…
Still a rich conversation though, with some beautiful gems for contemplation.
Great discussion. To conserve language is power. Thanks Safir, Haroon, Imran and team.
The ardent defence of market economies (and possibly capitalism as well) is NOT conservatism, but classical liberalism. Conservatism is not friendly to socialism, but otherwise is somewhat reluctant to articulate an economic doctrine. An exception is perhaps the distributivism that fascinated Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc.
I am not a groupie or into blowing my own trumpet but I met, many years ago, Mr Scruton in the old muslim bookshop in charing cross (al huda, I think) just cross from China town, in London; and he was in biking gear, but searching for a book on al farabi for a book on beauty and aesthetics, and he thought I was an arab, but I mentioned Brazil and left out the FrenchScottish heritage, and the fulani and bantu, and he seemed graceful rather than the right wing Guy Fawkes which English students, in the 80s, loved to hate, and all these years later, after the death of Thatcher, the corruption and confusion of the capitalism he appeared to champion, and the radical transformation of English society under privatization,globalization, and the islamization- here he is, over thirty years later, in a globalist world, speaking in Burkean terms, to an American Muslim, of Greek Orthodox heritage, discussing Conservativism. How ironic time is , the Sufi and the Tory, "In their entwined sleep they exchanged arms and legs
In their dreams their brains took each other hostage
In the morning they wore each other's face"
Jack Brown with age comes wisdom but i can truly say the same aint true for u. Open ur eyes and see the world from an unbaised point of view i.e neutural 7ph
Sir Scruton is more like Whig than a Tory.
A good anecdote, beautifully put.
Aren't the final verses by Ted Hughes?
Jack Brown dang, Jack, that was good.👍
thank you so much for this conversation. please have more like these. i am so glad to see a muslim put forth a case for intellectual conservatism and not fall into the trap of leftist marxism. the islamic world desperately needs a conservative enlightenment which can balance individualism and morality.
Completely agree.
The west is mostly degenerate and decaying, but it does provide the primary building blocks to ultimate truth.
And it's up to us to ignore all the surrounding distractions, identify those pieces of wisdom, and then unify+sanctify them.
Great conversation! Thank you for uploading this video.
Now that was absolutely brilliant. Thankyou.
Fascinating conversation.
Alhamduliallah for the upload
I respect Intellectual conservatives, they are truly unique.
What a lively and envigorating conversation. Shukran jazeelan, Sheikh Yusuf!
A Small Treatise on the Great Virtues: The Uses of Philosophy in Everyday Life - André Comte-Sponville. NOT The Book of Virtues. That is something else. Great conversation by the way. Perhaps Hamza Yusuf should become a host for a 'Talk Show' that is much like this conversation.
Wonderful conversation !
What a joy of time spent. An oasis in this world of 2021. With deep appreciation to you both.
Thanks for sharing. I found this an interesting conversation. Although, I was somewhat disappointed by some of Hamza Yusuf’s answers. For instance, Scruton acknowledges that the Middle East has an incredible inheritance of philosophy, but posits the question: ‘what has happened to the Middle East?’ because in the modern world Muslim intellects are few and far between, while new Islamic movements seek to promote the most violent interpretation of Islam. At which point Yusuf attempts to focus the discussion on anecdotal experiences of individual Muslims that have shown kindness and charity, but he doesn’t really answer the question about the decline of Middle Eastern intellectualism. Instead of answering the question he claims the same problem exists in the West because of western decadence. The only explanation he gives for the decline in Middle Eastern intellectualism is the rise of despotism, but he doesn’t really explain how that occurred.
Also, one of the most important questions asked by Scruton in the discussion was, in the Islamic world ‘do people have the freedom to do what they want to do?’ but this is just followed by a bad cut in the video at 49:51, and the question is not answered. It’s disappointing that Hamza Yusuf doesn’t answer the question, but I think I already know the answer. Throughout most of the Islamic world people do not have the freedom of dissent, and this undoubtedly stifles intellectualism.
I think what he was trying to say is that most of the Muslim world that people know of isn't really how it is. Ie the projection of Muslims in the media is really negative and at the same time he was trying to show that intellectualism isn't what makes humans good. You can have simple but beautiful people and yet have very intellectual but ugly people (on the inside).
As for why there isn't intellectualism; I think Shaikh Hamza felt that evergone knows of the terrible socio economic conditions that are present all over the Muslim world which is still recovering from systemic damages caused by colonialism in all their institutions. Which were also followed by puppet dictators and the endless wars that preceeded. Not to forget the endless exploitation done by corporations through the protection of WTO.
I think the intellectual tradition evolves in a people and is deeply entrenched in their culture, language and history. If you take a people, uproot them from their culture, their history and impose on them a foreign school of intellectualism, which happens to speak in a different language, different historical frames of references, on top of the given socio economic conditions, you begin to understand what happened and is happening in the Muslim world
Anyone with a superficial understanding of Colonialism, Imperialism, Capitalism, resources acquisition through war knows the answer to your question. The part that scares me is you are obviously an intelligent person with massive historical gap which leaves you critical of Muslim culture and to be exact there isn't one.
Alhamdullilah, great discussion. I will certainly be looking forward to more conversations like this.
Thank you for this discussion.
KM Hemmans The TH-camr
This fellow needs to visit rural Wisconsin - he will find the same welcoming attitude among the devout Christians there
Edward Smith 100%. I was quite surprised (&, quite frankly, ashamed) at how much I needed to check my prejudices (against my own people..smh) when I visited Kenosha & Racine.
what a wonderful talk. Muslin and conservative being able to exchange great ideas. What a bliss
Something like this with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Prof. Jordan B Peterson would be much appreciated.
th-cam.com/video/x7ZlXD7COMU/w-d-xo.html
Hamza Yusuf & Jordan Peterson
Your wish is granted
Check it out.....it is very good discussion
See the talk between Jordan Peterson and Hamza Yusuf just recently 2022 May, on JPeterson’s channel -
I think they confused Bennett The Book of Virtues with André Comte-Sponville's A Short Treatise on the Great Virtues. The second one starts off with Politeness. I also feel that respect for language and the importance of good manners have helped me in life but that has been replaced with 'niceness' understood as being non-judgemental and ultimately culminates in political correcteness, vulgarity and permissiveness.
What a wonderful video :)
Thank You Dr Yusuf and in loving memory of our sadly lamented Sir Roger. The double rainbow story makes me think of The Late Queen Elizabeth II's Platinum Jubilee. The evening before the service at Westminster Abbey. There was a glorious rainbow, arching right over that sacred building. And one couldn't think otherwise, but that God was blessing this dear lady, whose long service to Her Nation and Commonwealth was firmly rooted in her devotion to Him.
Knowing, as we do now that Queen Elizabeth was already quite poorly, and only a few months later, God would be taking her Home with Him. That makes such a moment all the more beautiful.
Brillant Dr. Scruton! i live in France and he's so right!
great point about how those with a critical theory orientation analyze all arguments based on a power dynamic rather than considering the merits of the arguments and engaging with its creator.
A great conversation. But so sad. How little of anything lovable is left in the world. Almost everything has been destroyed. And even what hasn't -- how few people who would understand it, with whom I could share it.
Roger Scruton has some very great thoughts. And Hamza Yusuf was a nice conversationalist with Sir Roger.
I wish more people would atleast take the time to just listen to this type of conversation and consider what they're saying instead of just recoiling and hiding from anything "conservative". It's almost like they're afraid they might like what they hear.
Crazy that this was 4 years ago
Interesting listening to this interview today.
I guess another narrative would be spoken.
Awkward questions and observations brushed aside - but excellent vid; so thank you and RIP Mr Scruton 🙏
A wonderful discussion on so many levels. Peace and goodwill to all mankind might seem like a difficult task but it’s a simple ideology we can all embrace.
conservatism means not being a predator towards children and women💯
Wonderful conversation. During the discussion of the importance of grammar, Yusuf and Scruton mention a book by---if I understood them correctly---someone named Guinn (sp?). Does anyone know the author / book they are referring to? I should like to find it.
They are talking about 'Gwynne's Grammar' by N.M. Gwynne.
The book is called Gwynne's Grammar by N.M Gwynn, it's easy to find, just look on Amazon.
Two wise and knowledgable men talking, how refreshing
They should discuss role or non role of wine in creativity and spirituality
hi all, one question, who would be the liberal version of Roger Scruton? that would be very useful
Brilliant discussion, thank you.
Would anyone be kind enough to explain the part where they talk about love? It's a little confusing for me.
Here's how I view conservativism: Writing was invented around 3500 BCE. Since then we have accumulated a wealth of written stories, philosophies, systems of morality and spiritual insights from all over the world and from various time periods. Conservativism is the rejection of the arrogant notion that all good ideas came out in the last two centuries or so. It's more about being timeless that it is being conservative.
❤️❤️❤️
The problem with looking for things one loves and wanting to preserve them is that it's highly subjective. What I find beautiful others may not, and vice versa.
We ain't get interview between Abdal Timothy Winter & Roger Scruton.
But interview between Abdal Timothy Winter & Arséne Wenger still possible.
what's with the edit on 49:48? That was a good question...
Yes,we still have freedom to speak our minds, but we are limited by the info our media will allow us... you know that, right mates?
Who described it as the "Abyss of Freedom"?
What do you think is the “statue-esque” quality of the Quern vs. the King James Bible that Scruton is speaking of at around 18:26?
David Moore : the audacity of Paul's hope to testify a gain to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is a debtor to keep the Whole Law. For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor and This I Pray, that your love may abound still more . And more in knowledge and all discernment approve the things that are excellent, sincere and without offense toward Surah 30 but as to bridge Revelation 20:6, so that The Peace of God which surpasses all understanding guard your 'hearts & minds' through Christ Jesus . And all the churches shall know that I am He who searches. HIM We preach, warning every Man and teaching every Man in all wisdom, that We may present every Man perfect in Christ Jesus. ( MacArthur has a short on this nonenegosiable gospel ) But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection, so whomsoever read this episle of the Laodiceans, might believe and understand that Amoris Laetitia let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that You may know how You ought to answer Each / One /Other.. and that you would walk worthy of God who calls You into His Own Kingdom And Glory.
Hm. Excellent question. I was wondering the same thing. All I could come up with is:
Honored as Sacred as it is. Finished product.
I appreciated the analogy because I found it a very smooth contextual interpretation.
Like the other guy said, it put the Arabic language in stone, because there is always a reference to the original, so it keeps the language within certain bounds or what is acceptable. The King James Bible is not a great example, it's quite late, but the same was achieved with the Vulgate and in this case, it's the Latin that got put into stone, but then people just created their own language and interpreted in their own ways, often wrongly the Latin original.
For some reason, Latin became elitist because European tribes stuck to their own language so now you had a religion and a faith that people did not comprehend. Then came the King James Bible which tried to make it accessible again, but the translation was quite personal and not always close to the original. It cared more about the form of the English language than the content. So it's peculiar for a sacred text. The original idea in Christianity though was to use Latin as the universal language in the West. In the East, they used Greek instead which turns out to be the original.
Basically in order to be Muslim, you have to speak Arabic, while you can be Christian and speak whatever language. So the first is statuesque, the second is already in liberal mode.
Why was the last question posed by Roger edited out? It would have been very interesting to hear Hamza Yusuf's reply to that but maybe he doesn't want to get involved in politics?
I understood 5% of this lecture. This shows us vs these intellectual giants.
The conservative looks inside themselves for their responsibility and ask for no reward. The liberal is forever telling others what others responsibilities are and take their reward.
What is the story of the king with a positive day and a negative day?
Could someone kindly transliterate the Arabic expression describing the duality of inner ecstasy and outward sobriety mentioned by Sheikh Hamza Yusuf at 29:06?
I think that the fact that 2 or 3 out of 50 students in his college not being able to identify such a main point in a sentence or statement has to do with the over-education of a population, not with the lack of grammar teaching. That is, university level education really is wasted on most of the population, it isn't needed and it is wasted on them. It may be simple matter of IQ. (The question is not whether one is arrogant for saying so, but whether it is true.)
Daz rite, main!
Just seen that double rainbow guy that he mentioned.
Look, I'm really trying to understand conservatism and how this can be a legit and useful worldview but I just can't understand how you can wave away left critiques of the problems with society by saying "but there are some good things too" and then complain about how people don't study grammar and have no manners. It just seems so detached from actual lived problems.
Actual lived problems.. what do you mean?
It's addressing the root problem. Lack of communication/reason and temperance.
Of course it does not solve problems, but it's the ability to solve problems.
Once you have that, you can solve problems. If you don't, you will just create new ones.
Oftentimes, the reason people have issues is because they don't articulate the problem properly but instead will articulate the solution as if the problem was settled. Like what is the actual problem? if you take Marx for instance, literally nobody that is against capitalism believes in the same problem he tried to address and in fact quite the opposite. So that's where reading skills are important. He came with a problem, found his solution, then people jumped on the solution and forgot the problem but then created new problems to justify the solution, and that's where we are. People with solutions to problems that don't exist or don't fit the solution. But there is nothing to talk about if someone already has all the solutions to everything.
So they try and fix one problem that they believe is important and that normally people should agree with.
Petit Traité des Grandes Vertus par André Comte-Sponville.
To be a Conservative, I feel, is to be of the intellectual heritage of Aristotle and to be a liberal is to be of the intellectual heritage of Plato, particularly his Republic.
What does zaytuna means ?
Olive زیتون
How to be conservative:
1. Pick a problem in society
2. Instead of seeking a solution, point to the problems with the people trying to solve the problem
3. Scream out to world "look at these peoples problems!"
4. Use that to justify doing NOTHING about the original problem in society
5. *bonus* use this logic to justify supporting the people actually making the problem worse!
Did I get this right?
i truly believe sheikh hamza yusuf is the equivalent of imam gazzali of his time. subhanallah such a blessed and brilliant mind.
he is acknowledged by many intellectuals of today.
Very interesting and pleasant discussion although I think Scruton's comments on leftists are too harsh & very generalizing. Also I've make my fair share of conservatives who are nowhere as benevolent or level-headed as he makes them out to be. For someone who's such an intellectual I was hoping you would be more balanced and accurate. But very good discussion overall nonetheless.
Why doe people destroy beautiful things?
So well, shall we remind us of a writen story thousends of years ago happend:
God created such a beautiful world and he was deeply satisfied about what he had created! And an one of his helping angels, gets jealous and began, reasenless, to destroy it, and still does it through menkinds, who think like this fallen angel...
Thats the way the play, the story, goes on and on...
You nention community. Whose community? Your own? Mine?
Say you have two language communities. Say it is in Hawaii. An Anglo American wants everybody there to speak English and a Hawaiian wants everybody to speak Hawaiian. Which one is conservative? Are they both conservative? If both are conservative, then should the conservative preferences of the Anglo American supercede that of the Hawaiian?
Can't get enough of these two. The left has destroyed humanity.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
{وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا ۗ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيْهِ ۚ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلَّا عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللَّهُ ۗ وَمَا كَانَ اللَّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَءُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ} (البقرة: 143)
صدق الله العظيم
Thank you for sharing a great conversation. May Allah reward you!
If there we're more intelligent conservative thinkers like, Roger Scruton, I might actually be able to tolerate a segment or two. It's refreshing to be able to hear someone who genuinely cares about having a productive conversation and not just preaching to the choir with brazen rhetoric about whatever super insane niche issues we can get people riled up with today. It'd certainly make people a lot more likely to actually sit down and listen to what you have to say instead of getting upset and cancelling you.
Around 15:20 this man has a notable blindside. Mainly, in that he can't name what the left loves. Perhaps a few examples come to my mind, but a major one is diversity of people and their many lifestyles. The left loves, protects, and cares for minorities of many kinds. Otoh, the right loves and protects the majorities and old institutions. These are very general statements and they're not perfectly true for all folks who name themselves right or left. There are many other things the general right and general left love, but these come quickly to my mind.
Here's what Sheikh Hamza referred to:
Double Rainbow Video link th-cam.com/video/OQSNhk5ICTI/w-d-xo.html
Of course the negative is focused on, because it's the most painful!! while being grateful, you can't keep your head in the clouds and ignore people suffering, that's not practical for a healthy society nor moral.
Scruton himself admits there aren't may intellectual conservatives, which makes one wonder why? I would argue that much of conservative thought is based on belief, which is a difficult place to base an argument.
I would say it's the opposite. Ideologies based on post-modern beliefs are dominant in today's progressive thinking. On the other hand, as Scruton said in one of his books, Conservatism is based on civilizational instincts that form the basis of society.
Say that again😂😂😂
Double rainbow guy was high at the time. So unless thats what he is inferring...
Conservativism would actually be far more appealing to me if conservatives talked and thought more like Roger
Is Conservatism and liberalism an American thing or something that relates to everyone? Are they political ideologies or moral ideologies or religious ideologies? How are they different from religions: Islam, Christianity, Buddhism? Do you necessarily have to be a conservative or liberal? Is there something in between. What is the origin of these ideas? Did you make these distinctions at the time of the founding fathers?
The problem is that today we have many more neo-cons and very few classical conservatives like Scruton or Russel Kirk. They are very different.
You guys are intellectuals and I don't really understand! Lol