I'd rather have a person that has an optimistic outlook on life be in charge, knowing they will do their best to make the most of the situation, rather than having a pessimistic sleaze and conman in charge who's only there to grab everything he can get before the perceived collapse.
He might learn otherwise. Meanwhile, he should learn what they do and how they do it. If he leaves their office and finds himself on the other side, he will be ready for their tricks.
Yup, it's an important 5% though. It'll get you a foundation to build on. 30 years in my profession and I'm still learning new things every day. And there's a few profs I'd like to have word with. Some to thank them, and a couple to tell them they're full of BS.
@xlerb2286 this is exactly the point a lot of people gloss over. I think there's a cultural tendency to want to downplay the importance of education, but the reality is critical foundational elements have to be learned in order for Real World experience to make a difference. As an example, in computer programming jobs we find a number of people who are self-taught. While there are always a few wizkids, they usually have huge blind spots due to not having gone through computer science fundamentals that end up tripping them up.
I passed the CA bar back when it was still a 3 day exam (and despite the fact my computer froze and I had to handwrite the essays and performance tests). Still one of my proudest achievements. But this kid is amazing -- 17 years old and doing law school while in high school!
I took both the 3 day and the 2 day. It really wasn't that much different. I felt less tired after the two day exam but that was it. I felt there was less margin for error in the two day exam.
When did they switch from three days? My college roommate took the bar three times in the 90s. He was so down on himself after failing the second time. I’ve never seen him like that before or since. But he got over it, spent months reviewing and prepping, and got it done. He’s still practicing as public defender, and I guess he’s coming up on retirement.
As long as he doesn't let this achievement go to his head. If he decides that he now knows everything and doesn't need any help in going from school to practice he'll probably fall on his face.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion on here, but this feels like a waste of intelligence. It's a shame he didn't have a passion for engineering or medicine.
This is the real problem with the legal system. It should be flooded with lawyers and consumer should be able to have affordable options. Instead the cost of law school (which most states require 1 year of before you can take the bar) requires consumers to pay crazy costs to afford legal help. If you can pass the bar, you demonstrate you know enough, now a law firm can decide to take a chance on you. Law school, like most colleges, is just a luxury brand. There should be professional apprenticeship programs nationwide.
@@LadyAnuB, she passed the "baby bar" exam (for first year law students) in Dec. 2021. I'm not sure what she's done since beyond lobbying Trump for presidential pardons.
I think apprenticeship should be recognized as a valid means to prove ones competence in their field of endeavor. For centuries that was the norm. All you needed was a letter from a known master of the craft stating that you had mastered what they had to teach you. Requiring everyone to go the University rout was not the traditional rout until fairly recently in history. My brother was a member of MENSA in high school but never went to college. Every so often he has to go retake his masters certification test to prove he's still qualified. That makes no sense, because those with a University degree don't have to keep proving they are still qualified. If he has to keep showing he is up to date, then those with the official degree should have to as well. The certificate does prove one thing though, he is pretty much guaranteed to be more knowledgeable than those who don't have to keep getting recertified. The downside is that they had to create a new position for him in the company, because he couldn't climb the latter higher without a University degree (company policy).
Years ago I met an attorney who told me he got his start in law because he had worked his way through school at various jobs. When in law school he visited the home of a wealthy fellow student whose father was a partner in a criminal law firm. In conversation with the father he was told because of his background in dealing with all kinds of people in all kinds of situations he had an important attribute that could not be acquired in school. He was told to see the father after he passed the bar if he was interested in criminal law. He was, he did and got the job.
Steve, as someone who has been practicing law as long as you have, would you hire a smart kid like this and help mould him into a great attorney? Would love to hear your feedback.
@@kitsuneneko2567 and who are you to say he doesn’t have that already? He taught himself one of the highest employable, highest paid, most respected skills before most graduated high school. I’m sure his head is on his shoulders better than yours was at 17.
Doogie Howser JD Esquire. That is very impressive. Good luck to him and his career. Hopefully he keeps his head on straight and becomes a great asset to the people.
I felt like crying on the description of the Will/Testate envelope. I really hope the 18 year old takes time off to travel and unwind and the entire process sounds like a one way journey to Prescriptionville.
I can relate to Steve's story about the bar exam. As I was stepping through the door threshhold, leaving the room at the end of the second day of the NY bar exam, I suddenly came down with a violent cold. Up until that single moment I had felt fine.
Back when California had the three- day format with two three-hour performance tests, I finished the morning's essay questions and came back from lunch to a dead macbook. Would not recover from sleep. I ended up having to hand-write it in bluebooks, and there's no way that's going to work. I came pretty close to passing the exam due to decent performance in the other sections, but I had to retake it (and passed). At least now I probably won't have bar exam nightmares later in life. Just the regular "show up to school in my underwear" ones.
I was a fairly smart kid in school, but I struggled with the work load as I went up through the grades, pressure from my family, and a lack of understanding of the value of education, to the point where I just gave up trying. I did almost no work during my last couple of years in highschool, and barely graduated. My senior year, I encountered a sophomore who had been taking supplementary courses online, and had met all the requirements to graduate early- with credits to apply towards a college degree. Nobody ever communicated to me that such alternative routes through education existed. I wish they had, because I might have been willing to try a bit harder if it meant getting out of school earlier. These are things to discuss with children and young family members- that if they want to, there are other options to explore than the prescribed route through public education. And a person of even average intelligence, but strong work ethic, might be able to excel academically moreso than peers who are brilliant, but lazy.
They're happy to prosecute citizens here who have the audacity to defend themselves or property, but they won't prosecute those from whom we must defend ourselves.
Lot of things they don't teach you in law school and can't be learned from a book -- such as judges who don't care what the law is and just do what they want (e.g., Richard Posner, by his own admission). Or jurors who say the right words, but act on their secret prejudices. So much of it depends on experience and hard knocks, as he'll soon learn.
Jurors..."acting on their secret prejudices."...You mean jury nullification. Like 99.9% of all attorneys out there, he doesn't even know what jurisdiction the courts are moving under.
@@Johnny.Fedora It does but it applies more to a 17 year old. But you are right most law school graduates have very little life experience. I went to law school a lot older and noticed that.
Lol… But in your defense , when you were 17 you could have been very smart and thought all you knew was pretty much all there was to know, now that you are older you realize that there is so much you do not know e.g. you believe you WERE smarter at 17…
My attorney friend skipped the US education system by going directly to law school in England after high school. I think he went to Oxford for 3 years came back to NY and passed the bar. He saved 4 years of college and tens of thousands in tuition plus began earning 4 years earlier. There are states that allow self taught people to take the Bar exam.
"There are states that allow self taught people to take the Bar exam." That includes California, and that is why Kim Kardashian decided to become an attorney. It does require a training internship before taking the bar exam, though. She did pass the "baby bar exam," which is what first year law students take, in Dec. 2021. I'm not sure what she's done since, but it sure would be interesting to see her sit for the real California Bar exam.
@@Johnny.Fedora About 40 years ago, we had an attorney here in Tulare County (which is the same county the kid is from) who had apprenticed under a licensed attorney to get his law license. He was famous for beating lawyers who'd studied at prestigious schools and were working for big law firms.
@@DavidNewmanDr, in fact, tuition & expenses at Oxford for a foreign student is currently about US$65,000. (It's a MUCH better deal if you're a local, including a government loan that covers everything while you're attending.) Maybe he spent three years in Oxford, Mississippi and he had a legal system epiphany.
@@Johnny.Fedora I was talking about the Rhodes Scholars, that uses money donated by Cecil Rhodes to bring students from the former British Empire to Oxford.
I don't know...I've met some pretty dumb older folks. Why do you think phone scammers from India focus their efforts on the elderly rather than the young?
I am happy to see this lad actually wants to practice law as opposed to becoming an "ambulance chaser" to make a quick buck. This story has restored some of my faith in the profession.
Always wondered what the bar exam consisted of and now that mystery in my mind is cleared up. Congrats to this kid--clearly has a passion for the law and should do the profession proud.
Some kids are born old souls. My youngest daughter has always been a watcher. She can learn from the experiences of others and apply those lessons to her life. She amazes me. She is unlike the rest of her family who...if there is an easy road and a hard road...Will take the hard road every time. I would trust the advice of her 25 year old self over that of most 40 year olds.
It's difficult for me to even listen to a 25 year old much less an 18 year old with no real life experience. Although, there are some younger people that are mature beyond their years.
Once he starts working in the DA's office I wonder if he will just go along with the corruption of hiding evidence, not turning over evidence, not investigating or fight back against it.
Opinions are not something you can sue over. I can call him a dumb dumb all day, and it isn't libel or slander. If I say he took three tries to pass the bar and it took him, that is something you could sue over. I am sure you know that, but many people are confused by it.
@@DarkPescoNo shit it was a joke. I said I am sure you are ware of this, but some are not. FFS, I got the joke, but hey, sleep better thinking that was over anyone's head.
A little over 30 years ago I was a freshman at the same school where my uncle was a law professor. At the time the fact that JFK Jr. hadn’t yet passed his bar exam was all over the news & I remember asking my uncle how hard is it to pass the bar exam & he did tell me the NY was the second hardest bar to pass. I didn’t even get my question out to ask what was the hardest before he said California. Also, I’m not just saying this because he was my uncle but he was one of the smartest people I’ve ever met & I bet if he had ever gotten tested it would’ve been a genius level however he even had doubts he could pass it in the first try; that’s how tough he thought it was.
California's overall pass rate is low because they allow folks with qualifications that wouldn't suffice in other states to take it. If you look at their pass rates for first-time test takers who are J.D. students from accredited law schools, they're in the low 70% range, not all that different from the pass rates for first-time test takers who are J.D. students from accredited law schools. I took the Texas bar exam in February of 2011 and the New York bar in July of 2011. Texas' exam was two and a half days; New York's was only two days. I thought Texas' was a more difficult experience (it was longer and was my first), but the pass rates are where you go for the truth, and you've got to be sure you're comparing apples to apples.
I almost wish I could be in the Court Room when a Judge that hasn't been paying attention to the News, looks around and asks where the Prosecutor is and this 18 Year Old kid stands up and says Right Here Your Honor... 😄😁😆😅😂🤣
This is why a residency is needed after medical school. In my last semester of medical school, my professor looked at our class and stated, “Ladies and gentlemen, in 6 months you will be released on an unsuspecting public.” We only thought we were pretty smart, but in reality we lacked an important component…experience. That’s why a residency is needed and why experience is valuable.
I saw that after I started to practice, every 3-5 years, my practice and understanding dramatically improved. Now retired. Started teaching in order to replace myself.
I have always said that newbie lawyers should, after passing the bar, be issued a restricted, provisional license to practice law under the supervision of a senior attorney. After a period of time, say, 4 years or so. the sponsor and two other attorneys should have to sign the newbie off for full licensure (that is, a license to work independently as attorney-of-record) subject to a second bar examination. A similar system is already in place for engineers, for example, so it's not like this is without precedent.
Medical doctors and electricians, as well, so it would be logical that those who are tasked with either taking or defending the physical freedom of adults against their will should have some sort of "residency" or "apprenticeship" before becoming fully licensed! Excellent point!
I just learned that in my state and 3 others, you are not required to attend law school to take the bar. I'm guessing that's how some of my lawyers became lawyers.
Hey Steve, how about an episode of lawyer jokes for the holiday. Here's an example... What do you call 20 lawyers hanging from a tree.... Christmas ornaments. Nothing personal, love your channel and you are the best.
A town here had a prosecutor that had no arms and he handled forms and documents with his toes, I saw him eating his dinner once a seven course meal and he used his toes, but people were always shocked to see him use his feet like most people use their hands, I won't say his name but I'm sure Steve knows him, he is a great man.
Sometimes the learning things gets in the way of solving problems. So the kid might be a better lawyer than a more experienced lawyer when dealing with various subjects.
Depends on what you learn. If all the kid knows is what's in books, any experienced attorney will clean his clock in a real courtroom setting. The old saying is, "A courtroom is where a judge and twelve conscripted jurors meet to decide which litigant has the best lawyer" is pretty much true. Note that being the "best" doesn't mean being the most book smart.
This kid is going to be like the golden child. I think other lawyers will be intimidated by his age and intelligence. It should be interesting to see where this kid goes over the next few years.
The legal system is designed, in its basic legal concepts so that a citizen can navigate it. It used to be kids his age would apprentice under a lawyer
An example That I can give is my Uncle, a retired Major General from the Marine Corp passed his California bar on his first try. One of the givens that I can give is he was a adviser on Court Martial brought before the Commandant of the USMC. He also did a International Correspondence course on Law. He also had a sister who was a Nuclear Physicist. Given also that this was in the late 40's
Wowie--what a sharp, motivated, and motivating young man. In the current climate of constant distressing news good happenings is much appreciated Steve.
He will do well with a good mentor. I think he would have a much harder time as a public defender.He will be a very experienced lawyer by the time he is 30. Hopefully the office he works for treats him seriously.
I like to chop what you’re talking about into 2 broad categories: Knowledge vs Wisdom Knowledge is what you gain from learning at school or reading information from various media sources. Wisdom is what you acquire from attempting to apply your knowledge in various situations throughout life. In simplest terms knowledge is information while wisdom is experience (both the good , the bad and the ugly) they all serve to teach lessons in life. Many people will agree with me when I say looking back at ourselves 10/20 years ago no matter how quick witted or smart we were, age has brought a multitude of new experiences making us far more savvy/capable than we were.
I'd disagree about the 2-Day being easier but maybe they improved it since I looked at a few examples after I had passed. I passed the California Bar exam in the summer of 2016. It was the last 3-Day Summer Bar. I actually found the performance sections relatively easy but I didn't get any edge cases like your example. The problem with the 2-Day was that they seemed to continue to give you a performance test that was the equivalent of 3-Hours to do in only 1.5 hours. I actually finished both of the 2 performance tests with time to spare. There's also less room for error in the 2-Day exam. With only 1 performance test, you have to hit that thing out of the park, rather than potentially doing mid on one and then better on the other. Also to be a bit clearer, the California 3-Day was 3 hours for 3 essay questions in the morning, lunch, and then a 3 hour performance test on days 1 and 3. Day 2 is the multi-state questions that you can skip if you've passed the bar anywhere else. The 2-Day is 3 hours for 3 essays in the morning, 2 hours for 2 essays in the afternoon, and then a 1.5 hour performance test, with the other day being the multi-state bar questions.
This young man is not only very smart but also incredibly hard working. We all know very smart people that were not able to leverage that capacity to achieve their goals. Just wanted to give credit where it's due. This person is extraordinary and I hope he is happy and does great things. As an amazing Ms. Huston once sang: "I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way."
i was told by a judge i had missed my calling, i replied i would never take a job, that its performance was gauged by a man that is subject to his own intellect.
I took the July 1983 CA bar exam, the first time the performance tests were added as a third day. Because it was the first time ever for the third day performance exams, the BarBri bar review course I took had nothing to say about it. Nothing! No one had any idea what was coming. As you describe, in the morning I was handed an envelope with a top instruction memo and the written materials to use. Same in the afternoon session: another envelope with a top memo and written materials. All I can remember is that one assignment was to prepare a neutral brief discussing the facts and the law provided, and the other assignment was to write an advocacy brief. I had a few years of practice under my belt so I did not find the two assignments to be intimidating other than the fact they were a big part of the exam. Luckily, I passed this first crack and had some wonderful years living and practicing law in San Diego. By the way, the pass rate of the July 1983 exam was 51%, the same as 40 years later. The low pass rate is an interesting issue. It's not low for all groups. The pass rate for Stanford law grads is, I believe, at or above 90% and it is way higher than 51% for grads of other highly ranked CA law schools such as Berkeley and UCLA. Also, CA allows grads of non-ABA accredited and wholly unaccredited law schools to take the bar under special rules. Moreover, CA allows people who have "read law" under special rules, but never attended any law school, to take the exam, a notable example being Kim Kardashian. These latter groups of bar exam takers have low pass rates and probably account in large part for the low pass rate average. If CA required all bar examinees to have graduated from an ABA accredited law school as the vast majority of states do, the average pass rate would undoubtedly be substantially higher.
Well, no cigar and cognac nights for him for a little while, (picture Alan Shore and Denny Crane on the balcony from the show Boston Legal) BUT a HUGE congrats to this young man!
I worked for attorneys in a city of 150,000, in a state that once allowed apprenticeship to become an attorney. That program was dropped (not sure what year) in favor of law school-only training. The difference in depth of understanding and quality performance in actual practice was, sadly, obvious, with the academically trained attorneys the easy winners.
That is impressive. The question is does he have the ability to speak and show his brilliance out in support of cases. Brillance in knowledge without that important social aspect of the job IF presenting in court would be a real shame. I do hope he does extremely well and is a great success.
That's exactly why. The court system here in Cali works by how much money you throw at it. This isn't a "prove your innocent" state, it's a "pay you're innocent" state
Sho Yano was twelve(12) years old when he entered Pritzker School of Medicine at The University of Chicago to earn his MD/PhD. He was the nicest, most polite, balanced, humble, and unassuming young man that you could possibly imagine. He still is.
Both the CPA Exam and the Bar exam are notoriously difficult exams that require months of rigorous study and cover very different material. However, if you look at just the exam pass rate for first-time takers, then the CPA exam is harder, with only a 14 - 20% pass rate. May 16, 2023
In NC before I went to law school in 1976, I met several lawyers that like Lincoln read the law and passed the Bar. At some point, the standards changed and in order to sit for the Bar, a candidate had to graduate from law school. Like country doctors, country lawyers had more than one source of income. My son-in-law’s grandfather was a rural doctor and lawyer after the Civil War. They have his medical bag and books. The Bar exam in 1979 was 3 days. Now it is 2 days. It was only given once a year back then. Now it is given twice a year. One third of the people sitting for the Bar with me failed. I passed. It was not uncommon for people to commit suicide when they did not pass the pressure was so intense. Large papers in North Carolina published the names of all the people who passed the Bar it was such a big deal at the time. My bar number is 4 digits. NC is opening up law schools all over the state and in my opinion there are a lot of hungry lawyers. I’m glad I’m retired.
Correction: YOUNG MAN not “kid”. He may have been 17 and legally a minor when he passed but he wasn’t a kid and now that he is 18 he is definitely a young man.
In England, you would often have to advise on either will drafting (including tax planning) or the application of probate law. You would generally know you would be doing wills and estates, and it was an interview with the client, but it was a normal exam.
He beat Gouverneir Morris. He entered Kings College (now NYU) at age 12 and graduated at 16 and joined the bar at 19. Sadly, he is perhaps the most important Founding Fathers but is lost to history.
I had a friend fifty years ago who as a new lawyer was hired to be an assistant states attorney. He told me how he was chewed out and severely reamed by the judge when he showed up in court wearing athletic shoes.
We have some incredibly intelligent young people in our nation. It is too bad that we don't do a better job at finding and nurturing these young people. When you read about a kid like this one, it is usually because he has parents that are doing a great job. Sadly, those parents also have to fight the school system every step of the way.
My hat is off to Counselor Park. While there is much to life as a lawyer, he has reached the first peak of his climb. The landscape and the clouds are visible now, all at once.
A younger guy that I worked with often accused me of thinking I knew more than him just because I was older. Like many times before I would explain, that age had nothing to do with it, I knew more about some things than him, not because I was older, but because I had lived longer.
If you think passing the bar at 17 is impressive you should meet his grandpa, Doogie. He became a doctor of medicine when he was only 16. True story - saw a TV program about it back in the 80s.
Steve - When you left your test on the second day, did you know you passed? I wish you would have spoke more about your process. Can you imagine going into court as a defendant & having him prosecute you?
To counter the life experience deficiency argument; I don't think anything would be more terrifying to a defendant than a cold, calculating and apathetic prosecutor.
I have a friend who passed the bar exam here in CA on his sixth try. He is not low IQ. His undergrad degree is from MIT and he has a brilliant mind. But, he is kind of obsessive and tends to analyze things at great length and to consider many alternative ideas. He was not great at the bar exam, but when I have an in tractable problem, he's my go to guy. Another friend passed on his first try. He's a super BSer and has done well, especially in court, but he avoids complex matters.
The kids attitude reminds me of doing jury duty. There was a young lady who was excited about doing her civic duty on a jury. When it was all said and done she was horrified that she had passed judgment on another human being and ruined someone's life. We shall have to see how this young man does.
He's young and naïve. No surprise he's going to be a prosecutor. Oh, and when I took the Michigan bar exam, I felt drunk at the end. I was so mentally exhausted and had been keyed up on adrenaline for so long so that when my stress response abated, my brain went to mush.
I have never been able to pass a bar.
You should seek help then
@@SIGINT007you don't get help it's a one person test... That would probably result in an automatic failure...
@@SIGINT007you don't get to phone a friend...gosh! 😂😂😂
@@wormer66maybe you should be able to understand a joke
I've passed out many times on the bar. 🤐
"I admire how prosecutors keep us safe" poor kid still believes in santa clause😕
It's obvious he is referring to blue states.
...and I'm the Tooth Fairy...
@@ThatOpalGuythe southern district of ny is one of the most corrupt districts in the country if not the most I’m pretty sure that not a red state lol
I'd rather have a person that has an optimistic outlook on life be in charge, knowing they will do their best to make the most of the situation, rather than having a pessimistic sleaze and conman in charge who's only there to grab everything he can get before the perceived collapse.
He might learn otherwise. Meanwhile, he should learn what they do and how they do it. If he leaves their office and finds himself on the other side, he will be ready for their tricks.
In Architectural practice, we like to say that you learn about 5% of what you need to know in school.
True of most professions
Yup, it's an important 5% though. It'll get you a foundation to build on. 30 years in my profession and I'm still learning new things every day. And there's a few profs I'd like to have word with. Some to thank them, and a couple to tell them they're full of BS.
@xlerb2286 this is exactly the point a lot of people gloss over. I think there's a cultural tendency to want to downplay the importance of education, but the reality is critical foundational elements have to be learned in order for Real World experience to make a difference.
As an example, in computer programming jobs we find a number of people who are self-taught. While there are always a few wizkids, they usually have huge blind spots due to not having gone through computer science fundamentals that end up tripping them up.
In engineering school, we learn about 30%. That's because we're the guys that the architect calls in to make his designs actually work.
I passed the CA bar back when it was still a 3 day exam (and despite the fact my computer froze and I had to handwrite the essays and performance tests). Still one of my proudest achievements. But this kid is amazing -- 17 years old and doing law school while in high school!
I took both the 3 day and the 2 day. It really wasn't that much different. I felt less tired after the two day exam but that was it. I felt there was less margin for error in the two day exam.
When did they switch from three days?
My college roommate took the bar three times in the 90s. He was so down on himself after failing the second time. I’ve never seen him like that before or since. But he got over it, spent months reviewing and prepping, and got it done. He’s still practicing as public defender, and I guess he’s coming up on retirement.
He'll probably make an excellent lawyer, especially if he went into law because he has a passion for it, and not just doing it to prove that he can.
Or to get RICH
As long as he doesn't let this achievement go to his head. If he decides that he now knows everything and doesn't need any help in going from school to practice he'll probably fall on his face.
@@georgesheffield1580doesn’t matter. He showed how deficient our testing for licensure is . Awkward sentence, oh well
As long as he doesn't allow corruption to buy him he should make a great lawyer
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion on here, but this feels like a waste of intelligence. It's a shame he didn't have a passion for engineering or medicine.
This is the real problem with the legal system. It should be flooded with lawyers and consumer should be able to have affordable options. Instead the cost of law school (which most states require 1 year of before you can take the bar) requires consumers to pay crazy costs to afford legal help. If you can pass the bar, you demonstrate you know enough, now a law firm can decide to take a chance on you. Law school, like most colleges, is just a luxury brand. There should be professional apprenticeship programs nationwide.
Guess what route you can take to the CA bar exam other than law school? Apprenticeship. Kim Kardashian is or was attempting to go this route.
@@LadyAnuB, she passed the "baby bar" exam (for first year law students) in Dec. 2021. I'm not sure what she's done since beyond lobbying Trump for presidential pardons.
I think apprenticeship should be recognized as a valid means to prove ones competence in their field of endeavor. For centuries that was the norm. All you needed was a letter from a known master of the craft stating that you had mastered what they had to teach you. Requiring everyone to go the University rout was not the traditional rout until fairly recently in history.
My brother was a member of MENSA in high school but never went to college. Every so often he has to go retake his masters certification test to prove he's still qualified. That makes no sense, because those with a University degree don't have to keep proving they are still qualified. If he has to keep showing he is up to date, then those with the official degree should have to as well. The certificate does prove one thing though, he is pretty much guaranteed to be more knowledgeable than those who don't have to keep getting recertified. The downside is that they had to create a new position for him in the company, because he couldn't climb the latter higher without a University degree (company policy).
Most of the lawmakers in legislatures are attorneys
@@johnshaw6702 Continuing professional education is required in many fields including medicine and psychology to help keep practitioners up to date.
Years ago I met an attorney who told me he got his start in law because he had worked his way through school at various jobs. When in law school he visited the home of a wealthy fellow student whose father was a partner in a criminal law firm. In conversation with the father he was told because of his background in dealing with all kinds of people in all kinds of situations he had an important attribute that could not be acquired in school. He was told to see the father after he passed the bar if he was interested in criminal law. He was, he did and got the job.
Steve, as someone who has been practicing law as long as you have, would you hire a smart kid like this and help mould him into a great attorney? Would love to hear your feedback.
It would depend on the moulder.
This kid doesn’t need a moulder whatsoever
This time of year, mold is plentiful; very damp, cold and wet thus a lot of mold.@@victorygarden556
@@kitsuneneko2567 and who are you to say he doesn’t have that already? He taught himself one of the highest employable, highest paid, most respected skills before most graduated high school. I’m sure his head is on his shoulders better than yours was at 17.
@@joanfrederick9176why not just judge him on shoe size? Divided we fall, remember that 🤔
Doogie Howser JD Esquire. That is very impressive. Good luck to him and his career. Hopefully he keeps his head on straight and becomes a great asset to the people.
I felt like crying on the description of the Will/Testate envelope. I really hope the 18 year old takes time off to travel and unwind and the entire process sounds like a one way journey to Prescriptionville.
I can relate to Steve's story about the bar exam. As I was stepping through the door threshhold, leaving the room at the end of the second day of the NY bar exam, I suddenly came down with a violent cold. Up until that single moment I had felt fine.
Did you pass??
@robinkuruda5249 Yes, I did.
👍
Back when California had the three- day format with two three-hour performance tests, I finished the morning's essay questions and came back from lunch to a dead macbook. Would not recover from sleep. I ended up having to hand-write it in bluebooks, and there's no way that's going to work. I came pretty close to passing the exam due to decent performance in the other sections, but I had to retake it (and passed).
At least now I probably won't have bar exam nightmares later in life. Just the regular "show up to school in my underwear" ones.
It probably helps that at 17 they can't look at his criminal history to use against him.
I've passed the practice exam for paralegal certification on my first try. Self studied in law and civil rights here in michigan
I was a fairly smart kid in school, but I struggled with the work load as I went up through the grades, pressure from my family, and a lack of understanding of the value of education, to the point where I just gave up trying. I did almost no work during my last couple of years in highschool, and barely graduated.
My senior year, I encountered a sophomore who had been taking supplementary courses online, and had met all the requirements to graduate early- with credits to apply towards a college degree.
Nobody ever communicated to me that such alternative routes through education existed. I wish they had, because I might have been willing to try a bit harder if it meant getting out of school earlier.
These are things to discuss with children and young family members- that if they want to, there are other options to explore than the prescribed route through public education. And a person of even average intelligence, but strong work ethic, might be able to excel academically moreso than peers who are brilliant, but lazy.
You weren’t lazy. You were bored.
@@emilyfeagin2673 And undisciplined.
So true
He wants to be a prosecutor but the DA in CA wont let him prosecute anyone, they just let criminals go free.
He can prosecute people for protecting themselves from criminals
If that’s what he wants to do with his skills I hate him
@@BastiatC good point.
Commiefornia resident here: touché!
They're happy to prosecute citizens here who have the audacity to defend themselves or property, but they won't prosecute those from whom we must defend ourselves.
Lot of things they don't teach you in law school and can't be learned from a book -- such as judges who don't care what the law is and just do what they want (e.g., Richard Posner, by his own admission). Or jurors who say the right words, but act on their secret prejudices. So much of it depends on experience and hard knocks, as he'll soon learn.
Jurors..."acting on their secret prejudices."...You mean jury nullification. Like 99.9% of all attorneys out there, he doesn't even know what jurisdiction the courts are moving under.
Doesn't that apply to EVERY new law school graduate, many of whom start their career in a DA's or public defender's office?
@@Johnny.Fedora It does but it applies more to a 17 year old. But you are right most law school graduates have very little life experience. I went to law school a lot older and noticed that.
Every profession is like that
I have to say, I was a lot smarter when I was 17 than I am now.
The internet made people dumber.
Lol… But in your defense , when you were 17 you could have been very smart and thought all you knew was pretty much all there was to know, now that you are older you realize that there is so much you do not know e.g. you believe you WERE smarter at 17…
This comment proves you incorrect. 😉
Said nobody, ever.
If you aren't smarter at 35, 45, 55... than at 17, something went horribly wrong in your development.
Did you have a tbi?
Ben between Vol IV and V of the OED.
My attorney friend skipped the US education system by going directly to law school in England after high school. I think he went to Oxford for 3 years came back to NY and passed the bar. He saved 4 years of college and tens of thousands in tuition plus began earning 4 years earlier. There are states that allow self taught people to take the Bar exam.
"There are states that allow self taught people to take the Bar exam."
That includes California, and that is why Kim Kardashian decided to become an attorney. It does require a training internship before taking the bar exam, though. She did pass the "baby bar exam," which is what first year law students take, in Dec. 2021. I'm not sure what she's done since, but it sure would be interesting to see her sit for the real California Bar exam.
@@Johnny.Fedora About 40 years ago, we had an attorney here in Tulare County (which is the same county the kid is from) who had apprenticed under a licensed attorney to get his law license. He was famous for beating lawyers who'd studied at prestigious schools and were working for big law firms.
If he won a Rhodes scholarship, his Oxford education would be free. But there is a lot of competition for those scholarships.
@@DavidNewmanDr, in fact, tuition & expenses at Oxford for a foreign student is currently about US$65,000. (It's a MUCH better deal if you're a local, including a government loan that covers everything while you're attending.)
Maybe he spent three years in Oxford, Mississippi and he had a legal system epiphany.
@@Johnny.Fedora I was talking about the Rhodes Scholars, that uses money donated by Cecil Rhodes to bring students from the former British Empire to Oxford.
I used to go to the bar and passed out all the time.
😂😂😂 and on your first try!!
Good for him. Lets hope he don't follow the corrupt path of those before him have.
In Tulare county, that will be the biggest challenge he will likely face.
Wisdom comes with age. Im sure that kid will be fine
Most Congressmen and Senators are lawyers. You might want to rethink that.
I don't know...I've met some pretty dumb older folks. Why do you think phone scammers from India focus their efforts on the elderly rather than the young?
I hope he isn't corrupted by greed and other people. He is amazingly smart for his age.
I am happy to see this lad actually wants to practice law as opposed to becoming an "ambulance chaser" to make a quick buck. This story has restored some of my faith in the profession.
Always wondered what the bar exam consisted of and now that mystery in my mind is cleared up. Congrats to this kid--clearly has a passion for the law and should do the profession proud.
Some kids are born old souls. My youngest daughter has always been a watcher. She can learn from the experiences of others and apply those lessons to her life. She amazes me. She is unlike the rest of her family who...if there is an easy road and a hard road...Will take the hard road every time. I would trust the advice of her 25 year old self over that of most 40 year olds.
It's difficult for me to even listen to a 25 year old much less an 18 year old with no real life experience. Although, there are some younger people that are mature beyond their years.
@@cobracommander9138 Isn't that just bias on your part? You should be better.
Once he starts working in the DA's office I wonder if he will just go along with the corruption of hiding evidence, not turning over evidence, not investigating or fight back against it.
Ben squeezed into the OED in between Vols IV & V, Steve's RHS
🤓 Oh, now I see Ben!
It's California. He probably answered "would not prosecute " on every question since thats California's policy for 90% of the population.
Are you calling Steve a liar?
I live in California. I am in the 90 percent of the population they aren’t prosecuting fortunately. What’s your comment about, except to look foolish?
"...a very, very bright kid..." That is such an understatement it's almost derogatory, giving him grounds for suing you for defamation!
Yup hypocrite hes jealous that a 17yr passed a harder bar tham he did 😂
Opinions are not something you can sue over. I can call him a dumb dumb all day, and it isn't libel or slander. If I say he took three tries to pass the bar and it took him, that is something you could sue over. I am sure you know that, but many people are confused by it.
@@krisspkrissIt was a joke! Get a sense of humor before replying to these. You'll flaunt your social ignorance less.
@@DarkPescoNo shit it was a joke. I said I am sure you are ware of this, but some are not. FFS, I got the joke, but hey, sleep better thinking that was over anyone's head.
A little over 30 years ago I was a freshman at the same school where my uncle was a law professor. At the time the fact that JFK Jr. hadn’t yet passed his bar exam was all over the news & I remember asking my uncle how hard is it to pass the bar exam & he did tell me the NY was the second hardest bar to pass. I didn’t even get my question out to ask what was the hardest before he said California.
Also, I’m not just saying this because he was my uncle but he was one of the smartest people I’ve ever met & I bet if he had ever gotten tested it would’ve been a genius level however he even had doubts he could pass it in the first try; that’s how tough he thought it was.
California's overall pass rate is low because they allow folks with qualifications that wouldn't suffice in other states to take it. If you look at their pass rates for first-time test takers who are J.D. students from accredited law schools, they're in the low 70% range, not all that different from the pass rates for first-time test takers who are J.D. students from accredited law schools.
I took the Texas bar exam in February of 2011 and the New York bar in July of 2011. Texas' exam was two and a half days; New York's was only two days. I thought Texas' was a more difficult experience (it was longer and was my first), but the pass rates are where you go for the truth, and you've got to be sure you're comparing apples to apples.
I almost wish I could be in the Court Room when a Judge that hasn't been paying attention to the News, looks around and asks where the Prosecutor is and this 18 Year Old kid stands up and says Right Here Your Honor...
😄😁😆😅😂🤣
This is why a residency is needed after medical school. In my last semester of medical school, my professor looked at our class and stated, “Ladies and gentlemen, in 6 months you will be released on an unsuspecting public.” We only thought we were pretty smart, but in reality we lacked an important component…experience. That’s why a residency is needed and why experience is valuable.
I saw that after I started to practice, every 3-5 years, my practice and understanding dramatically improved. Now retired. Started teaching in order to replace myself.
I have always said that newbie lawyers should, after passing the bar, be issued a restricted, provisional license to practice law under the supervision of a senior attorney. After a period of time, say, 4 years or so. the sponsor and two other attorneys should have to sign the newbie off for full licensure (that is, a license to work independently as attorney-of-record) subject to a second bar examination. A similar system is already in place for engineers, for example, so it's not like this is without precedent.
Medical doctors and electricians, as well, so it would be logical that those who are tasked with either taking or defending the physical freedom of adults against their will should have some sort of "residency" or "apprenticeship" before becoming fully licensed! Excellent point!
That poor kid is going to get blindsided by how much corruption exists within the system.
This is one of those moments where a really smart kid gets parents that really push their kid to be their best.
I just learned that in my state and 3 others, you are not required to attend law school to take the bar. I'm guessing that's how some of my lawyers became lawyers.
If one passes the exam w/o attending law school, that would indicate a genius right there.
Hey Steve, how about an episode of lawyer jokes for the holiday. Here's an example... What do you call 20 lawyers hanging from a tree.... Christmas ornaments. Nothing personal, love your channel and you are the best.
I passed at the age of 50. First time. Only time.
A town here had a prosecutor that had no arms and he handled forms and documents with his toes, I saw him eating his dinner once a seven course meal and he used his toes, but people were always shocked to see him use his feet like most people use their hands, I won't say his name but I'm sure Steve knows him, he is a great man.
Sometimes the learning things gets in the way of solving problems. So the kid might be a better lawyer than a more experienced lawyer when dealing with various subjects.
Depends on what you learn. If all the kid knows is what's in books, any experienced attorney will clean his clock in a real courtroom setting. The old saying is, "A courtroom is where a judge and twelve conscripted jurors meet to decide which litigant has the best lawyer" is pretty much true. Note that being the "best" doesn't mean being the most book smart.
He assumes the kidbis not adult and street smart sometimes these genius are gifted in all areas he will have his masters and PhD in 4 yrs
Wow, There’s nobody else like him, bar none!
Comparing myself to this youngster, I apparently didn't have a brain until I was in my 30's. I don't know what they fed him, but wow.
This kid is going to be like the golden child. I think other lawyers will be intimidated by his age and intelligence. It should be interesting to see where this kid goes over the next few years.
The legal system is designed, in its basic legal concepts so that a citizen can navigate it. It used to be kids his age would apprentice under a lawyer
Props to the kid. He will probably have a bright future ahead of him. Considering the accomplishments at his age and hard work he put in.
An example That I can give is my Uncle, a retired Major General from the Marine Corp passed his California bar on his first try. One of the givens that I can give is he was a adviser on Court Martial brought before the Commandant of the USMC. He also did a International Correspondence course on Law. He also had a sister who was a Nuclear Physicist. Given also that this was in the late 40's
add on, MY Uncle enlisted as a Private in 1917 and retired as A Major general after 30 years in USMC
Wowie--what a sharp, motivated, and motivating young man. In the current climate of constant distressing news good happenings is much appreciated Steve.
That's really amazing! I passed the California Bar exam when I was 39.
He will do well with a good mentor. I think he would have a much harder time as a public defender.He will be a very experienced lawyer by the time he is 30. Hopefully the office he works for treats him seriously.
I like to chop what you’re talking about into 2 broad categories:
Knowledge vs Wisdom
Knowledge is what you gain from learning at school or reading information from various media sources.
Wisdom is what you acquire from attempting to apply your knowledge in various situations throughout life.
In simplest terms knowledge is information while wisdom is experience (both the good , the bad and the ugly) they all serve to teach lessons in life.
Many people will agree with me when I say looking back at ourselves 10/20 years ago no matter how quick witted or smart we were, age has brought a multitude of new experiences making us far more savvy/capable than we were.
I'd disagree about the 2-Day being easier but maybe they improved it since I looked at a few examples after I had passed. I passed the California Bar exam in the summer of 2016. It was the last 3-Day Summer Bar. I actually found the performance sections relatively easy but I didn't get any edge cases like your example. The problem with the 2-Day was that they seemed to continue to give you a performance test that was the equivalent of 3-Hours to do in only 1.5 hours. I actually finished both of the 2 performance tests with time to spare. There's also less room for error in the 2-Day exam. With only 1 performance test, you have to hit that thing out of the park, rather than potentially doing mid on one and then better on the other.
Also to be a bit clearer, the California 3-Day was 3 hours for 3 essay questions in the morning, lunch, and then a 3 hour performance test on days 1 and 3. Day 2 is the multi-state questions that you can skip if you've passed the bar anywhere else. The 2-Day is 3 hours for 3 essays in the morning, 2 hours for 2 essays in the afternoon, and then a 1.5 hour performance test, with the other day being the multi-state bar questions.
Wait, a 17-year-old passed the California bar exam? He must be a genius!
Isnt passing the bar exam on your 50th try - failing 49 times previously - a sign of more important issues? Something is rather suspect there.
Obviously you must have some level of creativity. Memo: Always cultivate your curiosity.
Great story, and inspiration.
This young man is not only very smart but also incredibly hard working. We all know very smart people that were not able to leverage that capacity to achieve their goals. Just wanted to give credit where it's due. This person is extraordinary and I hope he is happy and does great things. As an amazing Ms. Huston once sang: "I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way."
All I can say is congratulations. He has a bright future ahead.
i was told by a judge i had missed my calling, i replied i would never take a job, that its performance was gauged by a man that is subject to his own intellect.
Life experience, 100 % correct Steve
I took the July 1983 CA bar exam, the first time the performance tests were added as a third day. Because it was the first time ever for the third day performance exams, the BarBri bar review course I took had nothing to say about it. Nothing! No one had any idea what was coming. As you describe, in the morning I was handed an envelope with a top instruction memo and the written materials to use. Same in the afternoon session: another envelope with a top memo and written materials. All I can remember is that one assignment was to prepare a neutral brief discussing the facts and the law provided, and the other assignment was to write an advocacy brief. I had a few years of practice under my belt so I did not find the two assignments to be intimidating other than the fact they were a big part of the exam. Luckily, I passed this first crack and had some wonderful years living and practicing law in San Diego. By the way, the pass rate of the July 1983 exam was 51%, the same as 40 years later. The low pass rate is an interesting issue. It's not low for all groups. The pass rate for Stanford law grads is, I believe, at or above 90% and it is way higher than 51% for grads of other highly ranked CA law schools such as Berkeley and UCLA. Also, CA allows grads of non-ABA accredited and wholly unaccredited law schools to take the bar under special rules. Moreover, CA allows people who have "read law" under special rules, but never attended any law school, to take the exam, a notable example being Kim Kardashian. These latter groups of bar exam takers have low pass rates and probably account in large part for the low pass rate average. If CA required all bar examinees to have graduated from an ABA accredited law school as the vast majority of states do, the average pass rate would undoubtedly be substantially higher.
I tried the same thing at 17. Next morning, I woke up in a hospital room with a throbbing headache.
Poor kid's gonna be burnt out by 25. Still so new and fresh, hasn't yet had his sense of justice crushed by the system.
Well, no cigar and cognac nights for him for a little while, (picture Alan Shore and Denny Crane on the balcony from the show Boston Legal) BUT a HUGE congrats to this young man!
I worked for attorneys in a city of 150,000, in a state that once allowed apprenticeship to become an attorney. That program was dropped (not sure what year) in favor of law school-only training. The difference in depth of understanding and quality performance in actual practice was, sadly, obvious, with the academically trained attorneys the easy winners.
That is impressive. The question is does he have the ability to speak and show his brilliance out in support of cases. Brillance in knowledge without that important social aspect of the job IF presenting in court would be a real shame. I do hope he does extremely well and is a great success.
If Cal and NY are the toughest bar to pass, why is it that they have the most Kangaroo courts?
Bcuz judges are not necessarily lawyers.
That's exactly why. The court system here in Cali works by how much money you throw at it. This isn't a "prove your innocent" state, it's a "pay you're innocent" state
People complain California does not prosecute enough and too much. Which is it? Probably depends which side of the courtroom you are sitting on.
I can see someone talking to their fellow inmates saying that they were put in prison by an 18 year old kid.
Sho Yano was twelve(12) years old when he entered Pritzker School of Medicine at The University of Chicago to earn his MD/PhD. He was the nicest, most polite, balanced, humble, and unassuming young man that you could possibly imagine. He still is.
Both the CPA Exam and the Bar exam are notoriously difficult exams that require months of rigorous study and cover very different material. However, if you look at just the exam pass rate for first-time takers, then the CPA exam is harder, with only a 14 - 20% pass rate. May 16, 2023
Amen! I just finished all four parts of the CPA exam! Jesus!
Steve having to take the bar again. " You can't bring others to help you" . " They are helping. They are my masseuse"
In NC before I went to law school in 1976, I met several lawyers that like Lincoln read the law and passed the Bar. At some point, the standards changed and in order to sit for the Bar, a candidate had to graduate from law school. Like country doctors, country lawyers had more than one source of income. My son-in-law’s grandfather was a rural doctor and lawyer after the Civil War. They have his medical bag and books.
The Bar exam in 1979 was 3 days. Now it is 2 days. It was only given once a year back then. Now it is given twice a year. One third of the people sitting for the Bar with me failed. I passed. It was not uncommon for people to commit suicide when they did not pass the pressure was so intense.
Large papers in North Carolina published the names of all the people who passed the Bar it was such a big deal at the time. My bar number is 4 digits. NC is opening up law schools all over the state and in my opinion there are a lot of hungry lawyers. I’m glad I’m retired.
Good on the lad. He will make a excellent lawer and will continue going up.
I have a friend who passed the CA bar on his first try, but he wasn't 17.
Ben, hiding between books under non sequitur sign.
He's studying for his bar exam..
Congratulations young man. Awesome job. 🎉
Congrats to him and may he uphold the law
At an age when most people are failing the SATs, this guy passes one of the hardest tests there is.
Yeah I know. But they're definitely getting a low enough score for them to consider it a failure.
Correction: YOUNG MAN not “kid”. He may have been 17 and legally a minor when he passed but he wasn’t a kid and now that he is 18 he is definitely a young man.
I graduated from New York Law School, not the New York School of Law. A common point of confusion.
In England, you would often have to advise on either will drafting (including tax planning) or the application of probate law. You would generally know you would be doing wills and estates, and it was an interview with the client, but it was a normal exam.
He beat Gouverneir Morris. He entered Kings College (now NYU) at age 12 and graduated at 16 and joined the bar at 19. Sadly, he is perhaps the most important Founding Fathers but is lost to history.
Asinine The drinking age is 21
@@gcanada3005 Morris lived in the early 1700s.
I had a friend fifty years ago who as a new lawyer was hired to be an assistant states attorney. He told me how he was chewed out and severely reamed by the judge when he showed up in court wearing athletic shoes.
🤣
Key word: decorum
We have some incredibly intelligent young people in our nation. It is too bad that we don't do a better job at finding and nurturing these young people. When you read about a kid like this one, it is usually because he has parents that are doing a great job. Sadly, those parents also have to fight the school system every step of the way.
Ben Hundo's hiding out between Vols. IV and V of The Oxford English Dictionary
Must not be so tough. I would hire him!
My hat is off to Counselor Park. While there is much to life as a lawyer, he has reached the first peak of his climb. The landscape and the clouds are visible now, all at once.
"Great, kid. Don't get cocky." -- Han Solo
I personally have passed 3 bar's...when driving to one with better drink prices 🎉😂
A younger guy that I worked with often accused me of thinking I knew more than him just because I was older. Like many times before I would explain, that age had nothing to do with it, I knew more about some things than him, not because I was older, but because I had lived longer.
Lol!!! I see the subtle point you are making. 😂 True enough!!!
My head hurts just hearing the format of the exam.
If you think passing the bar at 17 is impressive you should meet his grandpa, Doogie. He became a doctor of medicine when he was only 16.
True story - saw a TV program about it back in the 80s.
Steve - When you left your test on the second day, did you know you passed? I wish you would have spoke more about your process. Can you imagine going into court as a defendant & having him prosecute you?
He might have presumed he passed but it usually takes months to get the results.
My daughter passed the California Bar at age 25, passed the first time. About 20 years ago.
To counter the life experience deficiency argument;
I don't think anything would be more terrifying to a defendant than a cold, calculating and apathetic prosecutor.
I have a friend who passed the bar exam here in CA on his sixth try. He is not low IQ. His undergrad degree is from MIT and he has a brilliant mind. But, he is kind of obsessive and tends to analyze things at great length and to consider many alternative ideas. He was not great at the bar exam, but when I have an in tractable problem, he's my go to guy. Another friend passed on his first try. He's a super BSer and has done well, especially in court, but he avoids complex matters.
Hope he sees your video. In the right mindset it might actually be inspiring. Very cool
The kids attitude reminds me of doing jury duty. There was a young lady who was excited about doing her civic duty on a jury. When it was all said and done she was horrified that she had passed judgment on another human being and ruined someone's life.
We shall have to see how this young man does.
I knew a guy Praticed in Florida and California. Didn't realize Florida was up there too.
In Alabama, Mississippi and Texas in order to pass the bar all you need do is fog a mirror.
He's young and naïve. No surprise he's going to be a prosecutor. Oh, and when I took the Michigan bar exam, I felt drunk at the end. I was so mentally exhausted and had been keyed up on adrenaline for so long so that when my stress response abated, my brain went to mush.