If it were easy, we would not need you to show us how it is done. With your high skill set and your obsessive attention to detail, and to still have setbacks, it brings authenticity to your channel. One of the best things about your channel is that you are relatable and we can all relate with these kinds of setbacks and your anxiety filled frustration. I hope you have a good day today.
Michael, you have said it all it is a great series I spent half my working life on Cats in Africa Sqacth 253 would have thrived there where many of us found things tough!
@@squatch253 I just tried to start my fresh rebuild. The farmall H last night. Some how, triple checking the timing mark. It was still 180 out. With a muffler. The bang and the foot of fame was impressive. Dust raining down from the roof. It's the little things in life. LOL. It sounds great now. Well worth it. Along with a story.
When I found your channel you were tearing 1113’s engine down and I had to see where it started. So I time traveled in your videos to find the source. Once I started the journey I can’t stop. I am looking forward to see 1113 pull out a stump or tree down to complete the saga. Watching the process reminds me of my childhood with my grandfather restoring Allis Chalmers tractors and working them afterwards. Keep up the videos I’ll watch them all.
Matt, the same for me as well... My Grandfather, and father had a fleet of IH TD 6's and TD 8's. And ironically a SUPER M tractor as well. Along with the horse- drawn grader they have used a few times. Towed with the IH H model they care for.
I can count on one hand how many times I’ve gone through a whole engine rebuild and not had a leak of some kind upon initial startup - just part of the process folks.
As they say, good catch! Failure to identify that and just moving ahead could have caused more problems and more time later! I certainly appreciate the methodical systematic approach to this project!
I know exactly what you're going through! I recently rebuilt a Ford KSG416 engine for my Bobcat 732 and also had an annoying coolant leak. Took a few tries to fix it right. Got the engine running on the bench, all looked really good, got it installed in the machine, runs awesome, now after running it for a few hours I have a nice oil leak in there somewhere... already removed the engine once to find it and it's leaking still. Not near as bad but still leaking. So one of these days the engine will be coming out again... I must say I really admire your attention to detail and have watched each and every episode so far and always look forward to the next one! Thanks for taking us all along on your projects!
I used to go through the same issues when working on big stationary natural gas engines and compressors when doing a major overhaul on them. ALWAYS something that comes up ...it's just the nature of the beast. Sometimes it's minor and an hour later it's OK...Sometimes we're pulling heads and possibly a cylinder liner...ect...but it's gotta be fixed properly. Look forward to seeing that engine up and running soon !!
Not a fail mate, just part of the process. Working on this old equipment always teaches you patience! Love the channel, came here for the shop work but hugely enjoy the field work too. Thanks for letting us hang out. Cheers!
You and your Dad are excellent mechanics. I have been swinging wrenches on earthmoving equipment for 50 years. Both you and your Dad are very meticulous and thorough. Everyone has some kind of issues when completing a large project. What separates the men from the boys is HOW you correct the problem. The only people that never have a problem are the people that do not do anything. Thank you again for the videos. Stay Safe
This reminds me of what an old mechanic told me when I started workin with wrenches back in the 60’s. He said “ you know a 5 minute job is only one broken bolt away from a two day nightmare.”
Lesson learned. Something else to be checked before reassembly. I would'nt have thought of that. I'm not a mechanic by trade but I have rebuilt several automotive engines. I learn something new everytime.
Autopsy and subsequent corrections! Great stuff, Toby thank you for sharing. These old engines and anything equivalent have some sort of organic properties to them - each one is it's own - like a pet dog - each has a unique character!
Hi Toby, I'm always amazed at your calm approach to these things - ok, you did look a little unhappy right at the start but it went very quickly. Me, folks, I'd be ranting and raving for half an hour at least!
You never know what you don't know, until you know it. Great stuff. Hope the new gasket has sufficient compressibility, and does not leak. At least it is not a pressurized coolant system.
This reminds me of what an old mechanic told me when I first started working with wrenches back in the 60’s. He said “you know a 5 minute job is only one broken bolt away from a two day nightmare “
Absolutely love your videos! So detail oriented and the way that you explain every facet of your work! You always stay positive and keep moving forward! Excellent.
I remember putting a head gasket on a Nissan years ago. Had it nearly done and when I put coolant it it started running out between head and block. Pulled head back off. Head gasket looked fine but when I checked thickness the fire ring area of the entire gasket was 6 thousandths thicker than the fiber portion after head had been torqued down. Got a new gasket and had no leak. But I always was nervous on first start because many times there was a problem. Hang in there. It would be interesting to take that petcock apart to see why it is seeping.
Been a lot of years ago and cannot advise you exactly how to do it anymore but back in the early 70's I had a project in collage where we had to lap or grind in petcocks to get them to seal. Only involved in doing a couple and not done any since then but there is a way. May be worth trying to find out the method to salvage a vintage/ correct petcock for a first generation tractor. Good luck. Enjoy the videos.
I believe it involves lapping compounds of differing grades.? Ironically I have the water-block petcock for my budding Triumph TR4 engine block to attempt this very weekend...
Ouch! Thinking of all the places leaks of various fluids spring up makes MY head hurt. Squatch seems to take it more in stride. Admirable to say the least.
I’m surprised the machine shop didn’t catch the concave bottom on the starter engine. I figured they would have check it to make sure they had a good reference surface before putting on the mill table for machining.
@@squatch253 sorry, I didn’t intend to put the blame on the machine shop, it was more of a it just happened to sneak past an extra set of eyes. That’s all 🙂
I feel your pain! Few years ago I rebuilt an LS1 engine and put a high pressure high volume oil pump in it. Took it out after break in got on it and the oil pressure hit a 109 pounds!! I did the math and figured 50 hours to tear it down and rebuild it at a $100 an hour was cheaper than the engine would cost if I blew it. Turns out I think it was just the Spring in the oil pump that I put in was that good of an oil pump.. Put a low pressure Spring in for the high volume pump and it's been good ever since
You probably wouldn’t have had that problem if you used some modern sealers like the ones ford uses on their oil pans and differential covers. I appreciate the showing of the old ways of doing things. Just shows that people have learned from old problems and made new solutions for them.
For some reason I seem to be the guy all my friends turn to when its time to break in a rebuilt engine. I hate it but i love it. Rule number one:stay out of my way. They seem to be enamored by with my stress. Haven’t lost one yet. (Knock on wood) But I agree,its not enjoyable at least until its done. I’ve been following you and Squatch SR. For ever. Love your channel!
You'll get it. temperamental old stuff and designs. There's something to be said about modern designs on gaskets and orings, but they have there issues too. Old technologies sometimes better sometimes not. Awsome videos thanks
Last year I finished the rebuild on a Ford 302 V8. All fluids in, and it looked good. Then.......water leak at the right rear corner of the engine, only when hot (under pressure). I would have much preferred a leak when cold.
I can only remember one engine rebuild that I didn't have any issues at startup. It was an awesome 89 Ford Escort. It started the first time I hit the starter. Absolutely no leaks and the hydraulic lifters went quiet in less than 30 seconds. It made me nervous that it started so quickly and I was really surprised when I couldn't find any leaks. Purred like a kitten and after break-in I could go from 0 to 50 in about 250 feet. I typically would skip 2nd and 4th gears on takeoff. My wife couldn't understand why I enjoyed driving that car. There's nothing like getting to use something that has some of your blood, sweat, and tears in it.
Remember the WW2 Bugs Bunny cartoon when he was battling mechanical Gremlins that attacked planes and tanks when no one was looking? I firmly believe in them
Awesome video if repairing stuff was easy every one would do it. It's very common to have leaks to start with no matter how hard you try cover every base some thing seems to so up. Just keep pushing forward
Well that's a bummer,I've had it happen plenty of times.the worst was an EGR cooler on a 6.0,and we don't pull the cab,so it was put it all together,find the leak,tear it all apart.
It may have already been posted. I was told long ago that just water is best to use for new rebuild break in because anti freeze in is worse for engine bearings than water. I don’t know if it’s true but I that’s what I do. Fortunately I haven’t had any leaks. Thanks for the great videos both you and Sr.
Nice catch, better now then later. Many early cast iron assemblies in where two large cast iron bodies are gasketed together, wind up leaking due to the gasket material failing or the sealant shrinking back. The biggest issue with an assembly like this is that there are two semi rigid bodies trying to achieve a seal through compression of the corresponding surfaces. The matings surfaces are flat at inspection, however, when all the bolt torques are applied the castings pull out of flat. This is why whenever I am dealing with a complex assembly like this I will assemble as many components as possible prior to inspection. I am trying to impart any forces that may shift the casting. It is no different then using a torque plate on an engine block prior to the final cylinder hone to replicate the changes to the block caused by the head bolt torque specs. #SQUATCH253: I would suggest getting and keeping a large block of steel that is ground flat. Wrap a piece of emery cloth around the block (180 -220grit). Sand the bottom of the casting to reveal where any low or high spots are. You probably already know that trick, but just in case. Just FTR, something like this is perfect for Loctite 515. I wouldn't even use the gasket unless it was necessary for spacing. The stuff really gets-it-done for this application
I never have been smart enough to be concerned. But today i started my truck after 2 weeks of maintenance. Must have been the bug you put in my ear…no home run either.
Lessen for the future.........check flatness of ALL surfaces before assembly!!!!.......Just think how many heat/cool cycles that starting engine has been through!!!!!
Great job - fix it now or it would be a constant pain. Maybe should check the base on your other two starting engines to verify flatness ... in case this could be a common problem?
My question is why didn't you mill the starting block base when it was apart. I'm not criticizing you at all I love your work I love everything you've done I followed you since the start every video I just wondered that's all thank you for all you do
Was interestin when you took the pony motor off too see the weak points on the gasket an also for it to show up on the casting as well, signs were there just gotta know how to read them 👍👍
My initial guess would have been the rubber gasket between the starting engine and the head. But it seems it's not as bad as It could have been. Personally I have had mystery leaks from thermostats and hoses so I know the struggle well.
That happen to everyone Squatch when I was a kid the town had a D8D with a pony motor sitting in our yard they put that pony on 9 times before they ended up putting 2 thicker gaskets in place for the heat expansion chamber that laid behind the pony nearest the back of the engine .and that had blown out when she threw a track one had nothing to do with the other it was just its time.
If you skim a cylinder head on a surface grinder you always see high spots around the bolt holes and probably the last area to clean up will likely be between the bores. This effect seems worse on older components. They move a bit with age and stress. I suspect this has happened a little here. Hopefully a thicker gasket will solve the issue. I swear by a gasket sealer called Blue Hylomar, I don't know if this brand is available in the USA but I am sure there is an alternative. Its a fairly thick non hardening blue colour stuff in a tube.
You can see that type of leak coming from a mile away with not much clamping force in the middle. You would also figure if they used groves and rubber seal for the top coolant passage they would have used for the bottom coolant passage.
I sure like your garage/workshop!! What an organized set up!! Even double checking everything as careful as you do some things just slip by. I bet the gasket you made is better than the one you bought. What do you have for heat in the shop?
Do you ever use any cooling system conditioner additive with a fresh rebuild, like zecol and mabe a little barsleak to help with anti corrosion and sealing. I heard once that that car engines had some sealer in the coolant right from the factory but it just might be an old wives tale, love the video keep up the great work thanks...
Hove you thought about pressure testing before adding water/coolant? I would do that when working at automotive machine shop. Saved time and messes. Just a suggestion. Great work and good catch. Looking forward to next video.
@@squatch253 we learn something everyday as I say to my apprentices. Your vids are very informative. Yours and another in the northwest. Been watching you both. Look forward to the next and completion. Stay safe
If you struggle with the gasket again, see if you can get some Klinger SLN-300. Its graphite based with a foil substrate and squashes down substantially. Excellent stuff, it'll seal that no problem.
@@erik_dk842 cuts lovely with all the standard stuff you'd have in your gasket cutting toolbox. Easier than thick fibrous material, to be fair! It excels at sealing poor faces. Being high pressure steam rated it's way overkill for that job, but it'll get the job done no problem, won't stress anything where it's squashed down a bit tighter and won't fail.
Those pet cocks can sealed by using the correct spring, ensuring that the intended washer, washer thickness is between the spring keeper and the spring. To exert enough pull to get the plug down into the plug body. Visually inspect all parts individually to ensure proper fit and finnish and dare I say it drill, file and or lap the parts into a close fit. It came to you used and possibly cobbled together. The first Gen coolness will not be lost, by a Squatch253/Toby repair. Just like all the other parts of 1113 a little well placed effort and skill will result in a story for the fans. Great stuff as usual, I eagerly await the next video. I hope you take the time and repair it, after every thing else you have the skill I'm sure.
Like Small Block Ford timing cover to block just love to leak especially after changing water pump. Or bolts are seized in the housing you know 4 long ones. My brother modified his cover had groove put in for oring (cover to block) and then just put cover on with grey silicone. My brother has V8 2000 Ranger too see what I started when I did mine LOL. I've had small leaks on first starts but I 've seen many leave oil supply line off going to turbo. Puts lots of oil on the floor fast we say its lake Shawn the person who's working on it LOL. Had new guy jack up on oil pan once that put 10 gals of oil on the floor that was lake Bruce. Which turned into new nickname Bruce the destroyer after he transferred to one of other stores. After they found out what he broke and what he did there
Failing is part of the process. I think i've met only two people in my entire life that can build an engine in one go without so much a fault and they have been rebuilding engines since before the Berlin wall was built, ancient Methuselahs that they are. :))
I worry that the thicker gasket will effect gear engagement. Was the warped starting engine done by rust jacking, freeze jacking or somebody over tightening the bolts some point in the past. Do you have a truly flat surface that you could glue sand paper belts to and remove some metal . Then go to thicker gasket to adjust gear lash?
I heard last night that you were taking the Pony Motor off as you had a leak(Was watching Rick's patty day eve and patty day streams at work) and had to wait until I got home to see if there was a video on it. Now that I read through the comments I will add this to mine, It is not as bad as the IM, because on her you would have most likely had to have her running to find the seepage unless you added oil in the top and it sat and seeped from a oil puddle. Chin up bud and look were you are going not at the ground in disgust!
I don't know how many of the D2s Cat made back in the day, but someone in the factory must have had the daily job of final prep and machine startup. Maybe not as much pressure since they weren't personally invested in the build process but still probably just as many issues to sort out.
I figure that after thousands of hours of operation everything warps and settles into harmony. Swap parts from one engine to another and things no longer mesh the same. Just the way it is.
And I was hoping this would be your first no strike home run. As one of my friends says, "it's life, get over it." It seems that you have a good attitude about it and you don't seem too surprised about it. Hope that's the only setback you have.
Toby, I've been trying to recall what the contact pattern on that gasket made me think I had seen before. It was a 390 Ford engine that had a head gasket turned backward on it. Because the smaller coolant passages were at the back of the engine on that side, that corner of the engine got too little coolant flow and the engine was overheating. The mechanic who found the problem found that the new head gasket that he put on leaked immediately. The head was warped only around the rear cylinder. Everything forward was flat but it had high spots around the head bolts surrounding the back cylinder.
you had the forsight to look before firing it up...saved you a bigger mess and you had plenty of room ...no knuckle busting. good save....you going to use cooling system additive?
Hopefully that gasket doesn't cause too much of a problem with the gear lash? You'll probably be OK though for the short amounts of time it will be used. Which brings to mind a question, have you thought about adding an electric start upgrade (for the convenience)? I know, "but it's original" comes into the picture but it does make you think?
If it were easy, we would not need you to show us how it is done. With your high skill set and your obsessive attention to detail, and to still have setbacks, it brings authenticity to your channel. One of the best things about your channel is that you are relatable and we can all relate with these kinds of setbacks and your anxiety filled frustration. I hope you have a good day today.
I'm just glad you've brought us along for the ride. Quite the adventure it's been to get to this stage too!
Michael, you have said it all it is a great series I spent half my working life on Cats in Africa Sqacth 253 would have thrived there where many of us found things tough!
@@squatch253 I just tried to start my fresh rebuild. The farmall H last night. Some how, triple checking the timing mark. It was still 180 out. With a muffler. The bang and the foot of fame was impressive. Dust raining down from the roof. It's the little things in life. LOL. It sounds great now. Well worth it. Along with a story.
That rubber seal between the engine and bell housing has given me a few sleepless nights as well.
When I found your channel you were tearing 1113’s engine down and I had to see where it started. So I time traveled in your videos to find the source. Once I started the journey I can’t stop. I am looking forward to see 1113 pull out a stump or tree down to complete the saga. Watching the process reminds me of my childhood with my grandfather restoring Allis Chalmers tractors and working them afterwards. Keep up the videos I’ll watch them all.
Matt, the same for me as well... My Grandfather, and father had a fleet of IH TD 6's and TD 8's. And ironically a SUPER M tractor as well. Along with the horse- drawn grader they have used a few times. Towed with the IH H model they care for.
I can count on one hand how many times I’ve gone through a whole engine rebuild and not had a leak of some kind upon initial startup - just part of the process folks.
As they say, good catch! Failure to identify that and just moving ahead could have caused more problems and more time later! I certainly appreciate the methodical systematic approach to this project!
I know exactly what you're going through! I recently rebuilt a Ford KSG416 engine for my Bobcat 732 and also had an annoying coolant leak. Took a few tries to fix it right. Got the engine running on the bench, all looked really good, got it installed in the machine, runs awesome, now after running it for a few hours I have a nice oil leak in there somewhere... already removed the engine once to find it and it's leaking still. Not near as bad but still leaking. So one of these days the engine will be coming out again... I must say I really admire your attention to detail and have watched each and every episode so far and always look forward to the next one! Thanks for taking us all along on your projects!
Don't beat yourself up Squatch, this is no epic fail, just the normal engineering challenge. Thanks for sharing all this.
I used to go through the same issues when working on big stationary natural gas engines and compressors when doing a major overhaul on them. ALWAYS something that comes up ...it's just the nature of the beast. Sometimes it's minor and an hour later it's OK...Sometimes we're pulling heads and possibly a cylinder liner...ect...but it's gotta be fixed properly. Look forward to seeing that engine up and running soon !!
Not a fail mate, just part of the process. Working on this old equipment always teaches you patience! Love the channel, came here for the shop work but hugely enjoy the field work too. Thanks for letting us hang out. Cheers!
I've had the same problem with most of my cars and trucks. They weren't that old either! You be a lucky guy in my book! 😀😃🙂🙃😊
You and your Dad are excellent mechanics. I have been swinging wrenches on earthmoving equipment for 50 years. Both you and your Dad are very meticulous and thorough. Everyone has some kind of issues when completing a large project. What separates the men from the boys is HOW you correct the problem. The only people that never have a problem are the people that do not do anything. Thank you again for the videos. Stay Safe
No matter how careful you're correct that there's always something. Thanks!
This reminds me of what an old mechanic told me when I started workin with wrenches back in the 60’s. He said “ you know a 5 minute job is only one broken bolt away from a two day nightmare.”
Lesson learned. Something else to be checked before reassembly. I would'nt have thought of that. I'm not a mechanic by trade but I have rebuilt several automotive engines. I learn something new everytime.
Autopsy and subsequent corrections! Great stuff, Toby thank you for sharing. These old engines and anything equivalent have some sort of organic properties to them - each one is it's own - like a pet dog - each has a unique character!
Hi Toby, I'm always amazed at your calm approach to these things - ok, you did look a little unhappy right at the start but it went very quickly. Me, folks, I'd be ranting and raving for half an hour at least!
You never know what you don't know, until you know it.
Great stuff. Hope the new gasket has sufficient compressibility, and does not leak. At least it is not a pressurized coolant system.
Well, you can take comfort from the theatrical adage that a bad dress rehearsal forecasts a great opening night
This reminds me of what an old mechanic told me when I first started working with wrenches back in the 60’s. He said “you know a 5 minute job is only one broken bolt away from a two day nightmare “
Absolutely love your videos! So detail oriented and the way that you explain every facet of your work! You always stay positive and keep moving forward! Excellent.
Better now than a month after it all back together . I wouldn't call it a fail, frustrating, but not a fail. Keep up the good work!
I remember putting a head gasket on a Nissan years ago. Had it nearly done and when I put coolant it it started running out between head and block. Pulled head back off. Head gasket looked fine but when I checked thickness the fire ring area of the entire gasket was 6 thousandths thicker than the fiber portion after head had been torqued down. Got a new gasket and had no leak. But I always was nervous on first start because many times there was a problem. Hang in there. It would be interesting to take that petcock apart to see why it is seeping.
Been a lot of years ago and cannot advise you exactly how to do it anymore but back in the early 70's I had a project in collage where we had to lap or grind in petcocks to get them to seal. Only involved in doing a couple and not done any since then but there is a way. May be worth trying to find out the method to salvage a vintage/ correct petcock for a first generation tractor. Good luck. Enjoy the videos.
I believe it involves lapping compounds of differing grades.? Ironically I have the water-block petcock for my budding Triumph TR4 engine block to attempt this very weekend...
I love the half hour, 79 minutes and 68 seconds later!
Ouch! Thinking of all the places leaks of various fluids spring up makes MY head hurt. Squatch seems to take it more in stride. Admirable to say the least.
I’m surprised the machine shop didn’t catch the concave bottom on the starter engine. I figured they would have check it to make sure they had a good reference surface before putting on the mill table for machining.
@@squatch253 sorry, I didn’t intend to put the blame on the machine shop, it was more of a it just happened to sneak past an extra set of eyes. That’s all 🙂
I feel your pain! Few years ago I rebuilt an LS1 engine and put a high pressure high volume oil pump in it. Took it out after break in got on it and the oil pressure hit a 109 pounds!! I did the math and figured 50 hours to tear it down and rebuild it at a $100 an hour was cheaper than the engine would cost if I blew it. Turns out I think it was just the Spring in the oil pump that I put in was that good of an oil pump.. Put a low pressure Spring in for the high volume pump and it's been good ever since
This stuff is what gives us the humility to keep us from getting cocky. It's a good thing it was sort of external and not internal. Good catch.
You probably wouldn’t have had that problem if you used some modern sealers like the ones ford uses on their oil pans and differential covers. I appreciate the showing of the old ways of doing things. Just shows that people have learned from old problems and made new solutions for them.
For some reason I seem to be the guy all my friends turn to when its time to break in a rebuilt engine. I hate it but i love it. Rule number one:stay out of my way. They seem to be enamored by with my stress. Haven’t lost one yet. (Knock on wood) But I agree,its not enjoyable at least until its done. I’ve been following you and Squatch SR. For ever. Love your channel!
There are always bumbs in the road, all we can control is how well we handle them. You handled it with more grace than I would have haha.
You'll get it. temperamental old stuff and designs. There's something to be said about modern designs on gaskets and orings, but they have there issues too. Old technologies sometimes better sometimes not. Awsome videos thanks
Last year I finished the rebuild on a Ford 302 V8. All fluids in, and it looked good. Then.......water leak at the right rear corner of the engine, only when hot (under pressure). I would have much preferred a leak when cold.
I'm a little surprised you didn't just lap that petcock a bit to get it to seal. Doesn't always work, but often worth a try.
Leaks, nooooo! That's never happened to me (said no one ever). Sometimes it's like playing whack a mole.
I can only remember one engine rebuild that I didn't have any issues at startup. It was an awesome 89 Ford Escort. It started the first time I hit the starter. Absolutely no leaks and the hydraulic lifters went quiet in less than 30 seconds. It made me nervous that it started so quickly and I was really surprised when I couldn't find any leaks. Purred like a kitten and after break-in I could go from 0 to 50 in about 250 feet. I typically would skip 2nd and 4th gears on takeoff. My wife couldn't understand why I enjoyed driving that car. There's nothing like getting to use something that has some of your blood, sweat, and tears in it.
Well is better to catch the mishaps before! Trying to foxy it when completely done! Great catch! She definitely gonna purr like a kitten!👍
Remember the WW2 Bugs Bunny cartoon when he was battling mechanical Gremlins that attacked planes and tanks when no one was looking? I firmly believe in them
Awesome video if repairing stuff was easy every one would do it. It's very common to have leaks to start with no matter how hard you try cover every base some thing seems to so up. Just keep pushing forward
Well that's a bummer,I've had it happen plenty of times.the worst was an EGR cooler on a 6.0,and we don't pull the cab,so it was put it all together,find the leak,tear it all apart.
It may have already been posted. I was told long ago that just water is best to use for new rebuild break in because anti freeze in is worse for engine bearings than water. I don’t know if it’s true but I that’s what I do. Fortunately I haven’t had any leaks. Thanks for the great videos both you and Sr.
I love your attention to detail!! Nice job
Hope you won't get frustated for that. Things just not always follow your mind. We will be always supporting you.
Nice catch, better now then later. Many early cast iron assemblies in where two large cast iron bodies are gasketed together, wind up leaking due to the gasket material failing or the sealant shrinking back. The biggest issue with an assembly like this is that there are two semi rigid bodies trying to achieve a seal through compression of the corresponding surfaces. The matings surfaces are flat at inspection, however, when all the bolt torques are applied the castings pull out of flat. This is why whenever I am dealing with a complex assembly like this I will assemble as many components as possible prior to inspection. I am trying to impart any forces that may shift the casting. It is no different then using a torque plate on an engine block prior to the final cylinder hone to replicate the changes to the block caused by the head bolt torque specs.
#SQUATCH253: I would suggest getting and keeping a large block of steel that is ground flat. Wrap a piece of emery cloth around the block (180 -220grit). Sand the bottom of the casting to reveal where any low or high spots are. You probably already know that trick, but just in case.
Just FTR, something like this is perfect for Loctite 515. I wouldn't even use the gasket unless it was necessary for spacing. The stuff really gets-it-done for this application
I never have been smart enough to be concerned. But today i started my truck after 2 weeks of maintenance. Must have been the bug you put in my ear…no home run either.
"Never hit a home run..."
I bet you've never ridden a unicorn either friend! Give yourself a break
East central Illinois here. Built and maintained buildings for 52 years. Always something.
At least it wasnt too bad of a job to get it tore down. Good luck with the new seal. Its looking Great.
I really hope that the new gasket helds up, milling the pony motor's bottom would be a major drawback...
8-0
Thx for showing!
Lessen for the future.........check flatness of ALL surfaces before assembly!!!!.......Just think how many heat/cool cycles that starting engine has been through!!!!!
Don't forget mind, when you get to 80 a little seepage is perfectly normal.
@@squatch253 not when you are getting close to 80!
Well dang the luck. But as you said it could have been worse. I know it's going to run good it's just given .
Thanks, option 3 use one of the other starting engines. After checking for warpage. 😉 Thanks!
Great job - fix it now or it would be a constant pain. Maybe should check the base on your other two starting engines to verify flatness ... in case this could be a common problem?
My question is why didn't you mill the starting block base when it was apart. I'm not criticizing you at all I love your work I love everything you've done I followed you since the start every video I just wondered that's all thank you for all you do
It's not a delay, it's content.
Was interestin when you took the pony motor off too see the weak points on the gasket an also for it to show up on the casting as well, signs were there just gotta know how to read them 👍👍
My initial guess would have been the rubber gasket between the starting engine and the head. But it seems it's not as bad as It could have been. Personally I have had mystery leaks from thermostats and hoses so I know the struggle well.
Love me some aviation gasket sealer. Rarely leaks but no gasket recycling. 😂
That happen to everyone Squatch when I was a kid the town had a D8D with a pony motor sitting in our yard they put that pony on 9 times before they ended up putting 2 thicker gaskets in place for the heat expansion chamber that laid behind the pony nearest the back of the engine .and that had blown out when she threw a track one had nothing to do with the other it was just its time.
Thank you for the video.
If you skim a cylinder head on a surface grinder you always see high spots around the bolt holes and probably the last area to clean up will likely be between the bores. This effect seems worse on older components. They move a bit with age and stress. I suspect this has happened a little here. Hopefully a thicker gasket will solve the issue. I swear by a gasket sealer called Blue Hylomar, I don't know if this brand is available in the USA but I am sure there is an alternative. Its a fairly thick non hardening blue colour stuff in a tube.
You can see that type of leak coming from a mile away with not much clamping force in the middle. You would also figure if they used groves and rubber seal for the top coolant passage they would have used for the bottom coolant passage.
I sure like your garage/workshop!! What an organized set up!! Even double checking everything as careful as you do some things just slip by. I bet the gasket you made is better than the one you bought. What do you have for heat in the shop?
Now does it make you wonder if the other 2 starting engines have the same deal going on?
I love your attitude, the cup is always half full.
Do you ever use any cooling system conditioner additive with a fresh rebuild, like zecol and mabe a little barsleak to help with anti corrosion and sealing. I heard once that that car engines had some sealer in the coolant right from the factory but it just might be an old wives tale, love the video keep up the great work thanks...
Hove you thought about pressure testing before adding water/coolant? I would do that when working at automotive machine shop. Saved time and messes. Just a suggestion. Great work and good catch. Looking forward to next video.
@@squatch253 we learn something everyday as I say to my apprentices. Your vids are very informative. Yours and another in the northwest. Been watching you both. Look forward to the next and completion. Stay safe
Reminds of the old quote, "I got good news and bad news. The good news is that the bad news ain't any worse."
If you struggle with the gasket again, see if you can get some Klinger SLN-300. Its graphite based with a foil substrate and squashes down substantially. Excellent stuff, it'll seal that no problem.
Not your average cereal carton gasket material. Is it as easy to cut cleanly?
@@erik_dk842 cuts lovely with all the standard stuff you'd have in your gasket cutting toolbox. Easier than thick fibrous material, to be fair! It excels at sealing poor faces. Being high pressure steam rated it's way overkill for that job, but it'll get the job done no problem, won't stress anything where it's squashed down a bit tighter and won't fail.
Those pet cocks can sealed by using the correct spring, ensuring that the intended washer, washer thickness is between the spring keeper and the spring. To exert enough pull to get the plug down into the plug body. Visually inspect all parts individually to ensure proper fit and finnish and dare I say it drill, file and or lap the parts into a close fit. It came to you used and possibly cobbled together. The first Gen coolness will not be lost, by a Squatch253/Toby repair. Just like all the other parts of 1113 a little well placed effort and skill will result in a story for the fans. Great stuff as usual, I eagerly await the next video. I hope you take the time and repair it, after every thing else you have the skill I'm sure.
Like Small Block Ford timing cover to block just love to leak especially after changing water pump. Or bolts are seized in the housing you know 4 long ones. My brother modified his cover had groove put in for oring (cover to block) and then just put cover on with grey silicone. My brother has V8 2000 Ranger too see what I started when I did mine LOL. I've had small leaks on first starts but I 've seen many leave oil supply line off going to turbo. Puts lots of oil on the floor fast we say its lake Shawn the person who's working on it LOL. Had new guy jack up on oil pan once that put 10 gals of oil on the floor that was lake Bruce. Which turned into new nickname Bruce the destroyer after he transferred to one of other stores. After they found out what he broke and what he did there
You must have the patience of Job to deal with a complete rebuild.... UGH...
Swing batter swing, low and outside... Are you using only water for the test fitting, or what mix.? I can't see a BOOK... lol.
Failing is part of the process. I think i've met only two people in my entire life that can build an engine in one go without so much a fault and they have been rebuilding engines since before the Berlin wall was built, ancient Methuselahs that they are. :))
I worry that the thicker gasket will effect gear engagement.
Was the warped starting engine done by rust jacking, freeze jacking or somebody over tightening the bolts some point in the past.
Do you have a truly flat surface that you could glue sand paper belts to and remove some metal . Then go to thicker gasket to adjust gear lash?
Well, you knew there would be something. This was not catastrophic, and an easy(fish) thing to get out of the way. Here's to clear sailing after this.
That’s remarkable for something that old to come together.
I heard last night that you were taking the Pony Motor off as you had a leak(Was watching Rick's patty day eve and patty day streams at work) and had to wait until I got home to see if there was a video on it.
Now that I read through the comments I will add this to mine, It is not as bad as the IM, because on her you would have most likely had to have her running to find the seepage unless you added oil in the top and it sat and seeped from a oil puddle. Chin up bud and look were you are going not at the ground in disgust!
Patience my Ass, I’m going to kill something……
Haha, you needed one more video anyway.
Thick gaskets and permatex #2 has saved my bacon on old castings that are n.l.a. Or couldn’t be re-habed in a normal fashion.
In the words on one Mr. Rick Bork, WELL F....... Oh wait, I can't say that here lol
@@squatch253 - I may have adopted that one myself lol
It ain't a Diesel Creek if it don't got a Squeaky belt
I don't know how many of the D2s Cat made back in the day, but someone in the factory must have had the daily job of final prep and machine startup. Maybe not as much pressure since they weren't personally invested in the build process but still probably just as many issues to sort out.
I figure that after thousands of hours of operation everything warps and settles into harmony. Swap parts from one engine to another and things no longer mesh the same. Just the way it is.
Better now than down the line i say....thanks, as always.
And I was hoping this would be your first no strike home run. As one of my friends says, "it's life, get over it." It seems that you have a good attitude about it and you don't seem too surprised about it. Hope that's the only setback you have.
@@squatch253 But it sure feels good when it starts up and settles into a sweet purr.
Toby, I've been trying to recall what the contact pattern on that gasket made me think I had seen before. It was a 390 Ford engine that had a head gasket turned backward on it. Because the smaller coolant passages were at the back of the engine on that side, that corner of the engine got too little coolant flow and the engine was overheating. The mechanic who found the problem found that the new head gasket that he put on leaked immediately. The head was warped only around the rear cylinder. Everything forward was flat but it had high spots around the head bolts surrounding the back cylinder.
I am surprised that you do not pressure check the cooling system before adding coolant but that would be too easy
you had the forsight to look before firing it up...saved you a bigger mess and you had plenty of room ...no knuckle busting. good save....you going to use cooling system additive?
My petcocks leaked too. I fixed them by using lapping compound on them and reseating them.
If you really want to do it old school you can always hand scrape the surfaces back to flat again. It would need some tools, but nothing major.
I know how you feel I always hated 1st startups Even if they are no leaks just trying to get everything dialed in just drove me nuts
Well I don’t blame you Squatch but it’s still a good day least you weren’t underneath it out in the dirt
....after this happened I thought you'd be wearing a eye patch.... frustrating when you start having "go-itis" and want to finish....
I knew it wasn't going to be good by the thumbnail. Glad it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
G'day Squatch. I bet you said a couple 4 letter words. 😇
I have the same prob here on D4 #2. All that work causes me to lose sleep
Hopefully that is your worst problem moving ahead
I would have just lapped the valve on that tapered seat. Would have worked for a while at least.
I'm surprised that you chose to continue use of the starting motor with a warped surface.
Thought you would have a Plan B and at least a Plan C. As usual, you did not disappoint.
Hopefully that gasket doesn't cause too much of a problem with the gear lash? You'll probably be OK though for the short amounts of time it will be used. Which brings to mind a question, have you thought about adding an electric start upgrade (for the convenience)? I know, "but it's original" comes into the picture but it does make you think?
@@squatch253 I stand corrected. Thanks for the feedback.
Hopefully you'll be two steps forwards no step backwards!!!
Hello. Do you plan to do a pressure test to detect internal leak ?