Benke Thiemann Folding Luger Stock
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- While most major pistols made before the 1930s had some type of shoulder stock available as an option, the Luger had much more variety of stocks than most others. In addition to the several types of wooden stocks made on military contract, there were also several commercial types of folding stocks made. One of these was the Benke-Thiemann, originally designed by Hungarian Josef von Benke and improved by Georg Thiemann.
This stock was made of sheet metal stampings, and attached by replacing the grip panels of a Luger pistol. When folded, the stock added remarkably little size to the gun, and could still be fired, albeit with a somewhat awkward grip. This was done by cleverly designing the stock to consist of two layers of material which overlaid each other when folded, but then could be held end to end when extended, providing a stock of surprisingly usable length and sturdiness. A single spring-loaded latch was employed to lock the stock in both the folded and extended position.
Ultimately the stock failed to be a commercial success, probably due to costs and worldwide economics in the 1920s when it was developed. Only a few hundred were made, although the serial numbers all have leading zeroes to accommodate an anticipated production in the tens of thousands.
/ forgottenweapons
Related:
Luger 1902 Carbine: • Luger Model 1902 Carbine
Stocked FN 1903: • Stocked FN Model 1903
Colt 1851 w/ Canteen Stock: • Presentation Colt 1851...
Mauser Schnellfeuer: • Slow Motion: Mauser Sc...
Fiala 1920 Combination Gun: • Fiala Model 1920 Combi...
Grandpa Nambu w/ Stock: • Japanese "Papa" Nambu ...
This stock partnered with an Artillery Luger and a 32 round Trommel drum would absolutely be the cats ass of PDW configurations at the time
Yep, and in 1930's there were a lot of paramilitary and "sports" organisations, who would have taken what is essentially a carbine, but is written off on paper as just a pistol, with open arms... given the price.
@@TheArklyte he'll if it wasn't for the NFA i'd take that configuration now, it would still be leagues better than say an "ar pistol" with that massive fireball that comes out of the too short barrel.
It would be at least 40 years ahead of its time
The WHAT
Agreed. Sign me up
This is BY FAR the cleverest folding stock I've ever seen! A little more refinement and this might have caught on in a big way 😉
Maybe some leather for the cheekwell spot, doesn't even have to be cushioned underneath.
But for legalities I'd love to see something like this show up for more modern designs.
Duh its german.
@@bluefletcher4340 German technology is ze best technology
@@AJadedLizard Mayhaps a folding "brace?"
My reaction when you first unfolded the stock was "woah, that's slick," then you immediately said "pretty slick, huh?"
You too mate lmao ?
I expected him to say "Pew, pew, pew!" 😆😆
It never ceases to amaze me how designers and engineers in that era were able to create such marvelous designs with little more than a sketch pad and an imagination. It's truly a piece of art that was well before its time. Thanks for sharing this with the world!
stuff like that blows my mind. i know an old school engineer and EVERYHING was paper and draftboards. to think they made the jumbo jet on paper. crazy.
not well before its time. We just forgot how to progress.
In all reality, sketching and doing things on paper isn't crazy...it's more hands on. That's the difference between them and us. They used to come up with ideas and make them reality. These days we have a guy paid to think. A guy paid to "deign". A guy paid to "engineer". A guy paid to prototype. And a guy made to make it. Oh yea, and a guy paying them all who's actually making the money(hopefully). There's a severe disconnect in the big process. And more often than not, there's a committee thrown in to make mandatory suggestions to cut cost or whatnot, ruining the entire thing.
When I was in technical school in early 1990's we only had a quick introductory to CAD. Everything serious was pencil and paper. Creating a new unique design is actually quicker and easier on paper.
And it is not really engineers job to produce neat clean drawings. That's what the assistants and secretaries are for.
Well, they also needed quite a bit of math and prototyping as well as their sketches, but I get the point.
This is probably one of the coolest accessories you've done a video on in a long time. That mechanism is just too cool.
It is German. It can interesting, it can be well made, it can be an engineering miracle, it can be innovative, it can be brilliant, it can be effective, but being German, it can't be cool. Our neighbours don't do cool.
not cool? how many other pistols, riffles and carbines had a folding stock that worked as a grip cover? this is not cool?
Dang, Noah that was good dude. Roasted.
Germans have made some of the most beautiful weapons I've ever seen.....cool....eh...depends. They do though have a tendency to over engineer something as simple as a hinge.
Noah Schlaman jjjm
"Commendable optimism"
That is a really good way to describe a lot of the things that get featured here actually.
When folded it looks like it is something out of Star Wars
Dude it does
If you're thinking of Han Solo's blaster in particular, it's a modified Mauser C96.
Most Star Wars blasters are based off of / modified from World War I and II weapons. :D
+Tyler I already knew that, but I meant it looks like something they will add in one of the new movies
I'm looking forward to that. it does look better than those boring Nabooian blasters based on .22 sporting Rugers.
Mad bit of kit.
The precursors to modern tactical accessories are astounding.
Hopefully one day you'll stumble across one of those highly modded Lugers that had an integrated light.
Only ever seen a photo tbh, but the switch system was ingenious, brass plates on the grip bridged the circuit through the skin of your finger.
so it wont work if you wear gloves ?
I'm guessing not unless they were conductive in some way, which would be doubtful really.
Was a beautiful firearm nonetheless, unbelievable craftsmanship, never seen a Luger like it ever before.
Those were exclusive to Hitler's personal guard if I remember correctly. No real problem with gloves since they were not really used in that setting I think.
Nice, would make sense.
I've not the foggiest about them myself tbh.
Ah, the P08 Nachtpistole variant, a beautiful, and tactical piece of history.
I love that you get to shoot some of the James D. Julia lots. Really ties up the video when we can see how a thing works in theory, and then see it in practice.
Forgotten Weapons is one of my favourite channels but one thing in particular makes it special.
Ian is always professional but You can clearly tell how much he likes some of the weapons and ideas he finds for us and I'm mostly speaking about those really wierd ones. :-D
you'd think the market would have shifted to the Luftwaffe in the 30's! that would be a great piece for pilots that go down behind enemy lines!!!!!
This is actually a very good point
The luftwaffe already had the luftwaffe drilling survival rifleshotgun
To fend off lions in the north african theater as ian pointed out
@@AttiliusRex lions, in the desert, that's a problem.
@@austinm.9832 so the luftwaffe thought
This would've also been spectacular for the luftwaffe's falschirmjager troops due to the fact they couldn't drop with long arms, this and a few spare mags (maybe a snail mag in a cargo pocket) would've been perfect for them to fight their way to their primary weapon
tactical luger is tactical
-adds sin to the counter-
*ding*
Well no kidding!
Tactical
what a great concept for 1920. this is definitely one of the more practical pistol stocks ive seen, compared to a chunk of walnut you carry separately, and have to attach in the heat of battle. great video!
When it's folded, it looks like it would fit perfectly into a scifi or cyberpunk movie.
From a german: The best way for you to say Thiemann is probably T-man. You did a pretty good job on Benke. Cheers :)
I'd put emphasis on the "mann" vs man. The meaning is the same, but we're talking about the pronunciation.
Man hangs on the a, while Mann has a shorter a and focusing more on the "nn" makes it just right. Ian came a really long way and taking the time to give names and designations their due diligence is really something.
I can't imagine how much work he invested in his book about french rifles.
Ben- "que?" Tea-mann, well T is enough.
Just an FYI: the Facebook page Oh My God Facts by Diply is using a cut of this video without attribution.
Don't be a taddle-t
@@mikedertouzos908 Ian works hard to make this content and if people are stealing and posting it without giving credit then it's worthy of informing about at the very least. Tattle-tale my ass homie.
@@mikedertouzos908 yeah gun Jesus needs to know
we shall have a crusade
@@Just_Chizzin but you wouldn't think twice about watching a streaming movie that you didn't pay for and probably had a Napster account as a kid?
For maximum dieselpunk: this on a Lange Pistole '08 with Trommel-Magazin.
the most tactical luger
@@LaserVelociraptor Actually not the worst I’d see. I’ve seen a Luger with a brass knuckle duster on Lugerman a while ago, and a friend of mine drew a project of an Artillery Luger with that duster, a suppressor, a recoil buffer like the 1900 carbine, a bayonet, a laser, a selector switch on the side plate and a charging handle.
I needn’t say that I recoiled in disgust.
sounds like a great project for modernization
Exactly what I'm thinking. I think the stock design can be reworked under the gun with a swivel instead so it doesn't effect the grip. I think it can be used as a tactical field kit too if done right.
Today you really could make an inflatable stock made of inflatable boat material, but smaller and tubular, inflated with a small CO2 cartridge or a hand pump. Attach it to a universal grip clamp.
This absolutely would lend itself to an update out of carbon fiber. Now you've got me reaching for my sketch pad, darn you.
I am afraid most such projects are DOA due to the SBR regulation ("constructive possession" etc).
Although legally you'd only be able to fit a replica to one with a stock attachment already, even though the one in the video being dwm probably didn't have a holster stock mount
A weapon designed around this folding stock concept would be an amazing compact weapon for bodyguards.
you mean an M93r?
Same! A machine gun too if it has advanced technology for minimal recoil, like Walther doed
*does
Were I to win the lotto tomorrow, this would be the one luger that could tempt me out of some of my winnings. Neat one, Ian, thank you for sharing it with us.
this is extremely intricate yet simple for what they are, an amazing design to say the least
...this has too be th' COOLEST pistol (imo) you've reviewed Ian, this made me smile :)
That really is pretty neat! I was wondering how "interesting" a folding stock could be when I saw the title, but yeah, the rather slick design made it clear how it was. Thanks, Ian!
I am just a Benke family member too :D clicked instantly!
vagyunk páran :D
It looks ridiculously cool in either configuration. I'm very surprised nobody has picked up on it for use in a movie. Thanks for sharing!
That engineering of that folding is just awesome.
I think I've seen this five times and I find this device fascinating every time.
Absolutely ingenious! And this is from the 1920's!
Now all I need is a stock conversion like that one for my Ruger MK I.
They seriously need to consider relaxing the laws on stocked pistols in the states, especially for .22 rimfire
That is seriously cool. Some pistols these days could use this system and benefit a lot from it.
If it weren't for that damn NFA that serves no good purpose.
I love creative designs like this, the way the catch is used for both open & closed is really cool. Great video as always, thank you for sharing.
I think this sort of folding stock was way ahead of its time and probably why it never caught on. I was expecting it to rotate under but the way it butterflies open is just so brilliant
First gun on your channel that I felt instantly envious about. What a looker it is.
I giggled like a school-boy when I saw that stock open up. Gnarly design!
these oddities are what i subbed for
Definitely one of the more cooler things I’ve seen in a while
A particular vice of mine, is your channel. This is the utter most desirable contraption I’ve come across.. being a Luger owner. Ya dun good Ian!
I want everything on every video you made this month they are so cool!
I much prefer that folding shotgun for myself. But yeah, I love all the firearms he had showcased.
that gif is amazing
One of the coolest items ive seen on this channel
God damn, that design for the stock is something I would have never thought of.
honestly the coolest looking folding stock ever.
One of the best collaborations between Hungary and Germany 🇩🇪🤝🏻🇭🇺
huh looks like something from the recent Wolfenstein game. pretty damn neat concept
I'm glad you covered this. I had only seen a picture of it and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Also, who's the one guy who didn't like it? Shame.
Old school tacticool! That's just pure awesome. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers, ASC.
Wow! Thank you very much!
Greetings from Hungary!
Holy shit!!!! That gun stock is 100 years ahead of it's time. They should make collapsible pistol stocks like this now days.
That stock looks like some modern polymer tacticool stock from the 2000s. It's amazing how something like this was developed in the 20s
"Commendable optimism" 😂 that had me rolling on the floor. Seriously is a shame they couldn't sell more though. I'd love one
I wonder, would anyone still hold any rights on this design? Could a company make a replica version? If I we're a luger owner, it would certainly be a neat accessory to go shooting with on occasion
No patent issues; anyone could make them today (although they would be SBRs legally, if made new).
Forgotten Weapons that was going to be my question. are these nfa regulated or do they fall under some grandfather clause due to their age?
bp968 if its made before the actual national firearms act which was 1946 I believe it would be grandfathered
Jacob Johnston NFA was 1934. and plenty of stuff didn't get grandfathered (basically almost nothing). but in this case I think your at least partially correct. I do know the atf doesn't classify most of the old handgun stocks as "SBRs" even though the exact item made today would be. just like machine guns are totally legal, as long as they were made before may 1986. Anyone who thinks gun laws are actually for someone's protection is an idiot.
I had never seen this stock so could be totally wrong but, my understand was it was ONLY the factory issued pistol stocks for the 1911, Luger, and C96 that were grandfathered, I do know that a grandfathered stock can't be put on a different pistol (without SBRing it), so my guess is if there is any protection, you would have to be able to prove it had been on that exact gun from before '34
That is a pretty slick option. Almost an option for a modern pistol.
This is a golden idea! Why it never caught on...!
That is cool even today! Heck, the Luger is one of the best looking guns in my opinion. I've loved it's shape since my childhood.
Definitely way ahead of it's time.
I never noticed that you are ambidextrous before. Good on you.
Thats awsome!
I like the Construction!
Thanks for showing from Germany!
Nice to see you do multiple magazines what a piece of history.
Idc what some ppl might say, but that is just straight up cool as hell....
I think it looks awesome!! Way ahead of its time!!
My eyes shot open when I saw you open that stock
“weird and uncomfortable” that’s the same that the sporting guys thought in the old days, the luger, the Glock of the early 20 century, full of variations and accessories
Early 20th century right
But yes, it was a platform that was extensively modded
Wow! That's wild. Never seen a luger like that before. Great vid!
That is BRILLIANT! Very clever! I can tell you making something work is just the first challenge of design. Making it slick and easy to use is the tricky part. Now i want one out of carbon fiber for a modern pistol! With modern materials it could be much lighter and less bulky when folder.
With all the issues the german paras had you'd have thought that would have been a no-brainer for them in ww2,I mean you drop a para with that and maybe some larger magazines you have a pretty decent weapon to see them to their larger weapons in the dropped caches
Especially on an artillery Luger!
Nah, Luger was no match for good old SMLE on the open fields of Crete.
+RGA1944 still would have been better than just standard pistols,especially with a longer barrel than standard.
His argument is based on the Nazis dropping paratroopers and the paratroopers losing their equipment in catastrophic numbers. I agree whole heartedly with your point by itself. A submachine gun would be a much much much better option than a stocked pistol. But a stock pistol is super compact and could have easily been carried attached to the soldier with little risk of losing it. This style stock on a 9mm pistol would be pretty good for a paratrooper. It'd be nifty to have one of these on a p38.
What do you mean by vast issues faced by german paratroopers?
And you, what do you mean by dropping their weapons en masse? Do you have data and evidence to support that claim?
The Fallschirmjager were some of the toughest military units in ww2 and were very effective, the used the FG machine gun and MP40 as a secondary weapon, and the issued pistol as side arm, it worked pretty well
Thats actually really cool! I wish we would see more crazy stuff like this now.
I think all of the other manufacturers were to worried about looking goofy. this is function above form, and I approve.
Oh this is Hans, our new development engineer. He’s a real show off..👌🏻
Very slick execution. I could see this showing up in a new Wolfenstein game as an upgrade.
this is the coolest sport rifle of the 1920s, Sad it didn't go into mass production
Nice I love when stocks are added to pistols
Way ahead of its time.
Man I want a Luger, and a stock for it lol. Great video!
Pantographic linkage. And to design it in such a way that the pistol is usable in both configurations is very clever. I know what I am talking about.
I think this idea is worth a revisit. With our modern lightweight materials you could probably shave down it's profile to make it more comfortable and easier to carry on your hip.
This looks like a good stock for the longer barreled Luger's
That's a pretty clever setup, I like it!
Glad to see you shoot the thing! My great grandma has a really worn vintage luger she showed me. We know it's vintage (it's been in a shoebox for half a century) but my old man says there no markings left to tell what year or where it came from. All that's left of the serial is a 1 and a GL company stamp.
Now all you need is a artillery variant of the Luger, a drum mag, and a longer barrel and you have yourself a pretty nice PDW
The great thing about this, is that it is a drop in upgrade.
Thank you Ian for your awesome videos. Great job and keep up your good work.
switches between stock and no-stock quicker then most i've seen from that era. It might not be perfect but it sure seems innovative.
That's exceptionally brilliant.
that is one beautiful bit of engineering my God that looks good
This is as good as anything that has come along since 1920. With modern materials it could really work well.
I think stock equipped handguns are just the coolest.
What a hidden gem of a gun
That is neat! Very clever engineering.
this concept for a folding stock should be applied to PDWs
So clever even video games didn think of something like it
And now all the Luger collectors are going to war over this!
I want to see an Artillery Luger with snail drum magazine and one of these stocks
That has to be the coolest video of a Luger I have ever seen! They should try this on a Micro Uzi!
I've never wanted a Luger before. I want this one now.
very nice item. thanks for showing it to us, ian
That is a super clever design.
looks like something a steam punk would make ..... so cool ! :-)
+Ravenous Crow the amount of salt is astronomical
Mauri Leon "There shall come a day when gold is cast asside, and salt shall be coveted"
~Gitgud 3:28
Time to open up Dayz and play as a hunter with a P1 Pistol and Stock!!!!
***** Nah they have a P1 with wood stock.
Steampunk is a way too overused term. This is dieselpunk if anything.
Just imagine this on an artillery Luger and with a snail magazine!
Greetings from Scotland Ian. Like your stuff
Oldschool tacticool.
When folded and held up I heard the pew pew sound in my head
thanks for the practical demonstration :)