Classic vanilla (OG and first time they redid it) It was amazing to have a redo at classic. It gave me a level of closure I never thought I’d get with this game. We killed KT and we did it, the hardest anything wow ever implemented, and we did it. Phoenix Squad
I started playing HC again recently, and I had such a good time grouping up for quests in Redridge that it made me realise what I want from Classic+: An archetypal world that contains a variety of threats, on a spectrum from being able to complete solo, to needing a group.
You know what I always thought? Make a few mobs that aren't elite, that are raid-like. They got mechanics like "don't stand in the fire", or maybe some AoE explosion or Maybe a countdown for huge damage, and make these mobs available with questing, 3 per zone, so it doesn't feel like you're hitting a brick wall (with elites) but rather a mechanically challenging mob.
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
@@mariogallego5513the difference he is trying to voice is the specification of wanting to only fund classic wow vs funding being allocated to wow instead with his subscription.
ofc blizz cant make it right for you wow addicts playing this game for 20 years, take a break, you guys are so toxic and depressed about the game nonstop. Typical addict
As much as i woukd like to have classic +, i dont think blizzard could currently make this work. They would only ruin the dreams of all classic players have of what + would look like.
I just want Blizz to preserve the vanilla feeling. It is Freedom of choice and Azeroth felt big and strong in compare to my hero. Now it feels, like my Hero is too strong in comparison to the Environment. It feels like the World is getting smaller and less important.
Then play era. Anything else won't be "vanilla feeling". Furthermore both you and the players have changed massively since vanilla, it'll be pretty hard to replicate that "child in 2005 being a noob, but loves exploring the world" feeling
Microsoft has a gold mine in their hands, if they reboot the whole Warcraft universe. They can start with the RTS games and launch WoW again after Warcraft 3. Hopefully the dev team has learned what made Vanilla and TBC great, and they focus on that.
There is actually a VERY large split in the OSRS player base. The voting system is used as a warzone between PvPers and PvEers. There is a LOT of spite voting that goes on.
And in the past there were even more factions.. the ironman vs anti ironman spite voters for example .. of course those polls are restricted now, thankfully
I do think they need to balance the game around PVP First and foremost, and then do pve after. the PVP in sod is absolute DOODOO but the pve is fine so far
Season of Discovery peaked at 500,000 RAIDERS via Warcraftlogs not just players. That's $7,500,000 on subscriptions in a single month! The fact that Blizzard thought it was a good idea to have the same team in charge of Cata that is doing SoD shows you that upper management has no idea what they are doing. I play SoD but I feel like no changes should ever be made to Era and the fact that they thought it was okay (before everyone protested the changes) gives me a great deal of concern for Classic+. I don't want SoD+ I want Classic+ plain and simple!
We need minor QoL & Class/Ability changes that bring balance and make classes work better. No crazy new roles that don‘t make sense. Then just a heck new load of story, dungeons, raids, pvp…
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
@@powercheif you're quite the odd ball if you're playing an mmorpg on a console. You just map everything to a controller? What's stopping you from doing that now using a USB controller and software? Besides the fact that it's crazy!
@@powercheif while theres no consoleport addon itself, all old private servers work with steam controller input. theres a shagu controller addon that preconfigures keybinds and the UI for steam defaults. people play twow on the steam deck and have a decent time
A really cool thing about SoD, from perspective, is some of the brand new people that have tried the game. I have people in my guild that have never played before being brought in by brothers and husbands or fathers that have been playing the game for ages. Examples include two rogues of brothers, a husband wife of Druid and mage/ rogue. A father - daughter of mage warlock, and more. New people are coming to World of Warcraft in a classic era. I still remember seeing countless new people playing in hardcore. Many never made it to 60 but I knew one that did. Bromin dwarf hunter, I salute you. This world is still thriving. And I’m all for it.
@@trey_dizzle4161 it absolutely is not! Now is a good time to do it too. We’re about to get a new phase for content and we still have plenty of time to do things. You don’t even have to rush. Enjoy the game at your own pace, find a group of murder hobos that support you, and have fun. If you’d like, it you join Horde on Crusader Strike you can join with us!
Classic plus: - finish zones (Azshara,M. Hyjal, Tanaris…) - Keep level cap at 60 - End game class quests (Legendaries) - Add level 60 ammo - Barbershop - finish some of the quests
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "Blizzard needs to decide who they are making this game for". There's an obvious split in the #noChanges crowd and the #changes crowd. But they can't please everyone. They just have to make a decision and roll with it. Once again, ERA is for those people who want no changes IMO.
That's right. If someone wants "No changes" they can go to CE. Anyone who thinks guild banks and hunters being able to set traps in combat is a "retail mindset" has their own containment version to stay in.
Yes. They fumbled SOD terribly. Phase 1 was the most excited I have felt with WoW in many years. It quickly went downhill. I tried to give the devs the benefit of the doubt knowing the team is small. But, by now they have had plenty of chances and did nothing but prove they either don’t care or are just genuinely not cut out for the task.
Yep, same. SOD phase 1 was so exciting, and then phase 2 came out and just ruined it for me. They made leveling incredibly boring, and ruined what makes classic, classic. The journey to 60.
They're just 100% out of touch with how vanilla players thinks and plays, because they don't, they still want some retail stuff, thinking it's better, but it's worse.
Certainly, the preferences of vanilla players can vary widely, leading to differing opinions on desired features. In my perspective, a classic plus version would entail the enhancement of all classes to ensure they can effectively fulfill their respective roles at a high level. This could include the inclusion of paladin tanks and Druid DPS. Additionally, the introduction of new content, such as completing storylines that were left unfinished and incorporating raids that were previously scrapped, would further enhance the gaming experience.
I have to admit that after SoD it’s hard to imagine returning to a vanilla-ish game without similar degrees of class changes. It’s tough because there is an audience for each of the hundreds of possible futures for classic+ out there, and nobody seems to agree on much beyond the basic QoL stuff and vague notions of “more content better balance”
I don’t think people will want to admit that some of the changes in SOD are so good it will be hard to go back to vanilla after this. Warlock closets, druids wild strikes, hunter traps usable in combat, extra classes to take up slots as tanks and healers making grouping much better, loot token systems for raids, I could go on and on about the changes I have loved from SOD.
@@trevorburton3290 i dont agree most of the change was goofy mage healer rogue tank it was not immersive on top having bad class balance in the end it just a test and it fine but classic plus should not be Sod if you want that play retail wow. i agree some change in classic plus would be nice but not over the top
@@TatsuyaWow What would be your suggestions then? The Go Play Retail, crowd tends to overlook basic things that TBC and WOTLK improved on. Classic+ shouldn't simply be new raid tiers.
@@TatsuyaWow classic + without meta lock is just not going to cut it. You can’t get that in retail either. New class/roles are always welcome because class and roles are not what makes classic great. Class/role identity, sure. But class/role variety? That’s a good thing. Give us more. Most class/roles sucked in classic so mage healer and rogue tank sucking is right on the money.
this is how I feel about modern wow in general. I dont like it because all the systems they add and the bad story, but the gameplay is far superior to older wow in most every way from my perspective. As someone whos played since 2004 and went back to classic, I just cant enjoy classic because how simple / slow it is, but I did get value out of wotlk and now cata. Meanwhile gladiator pvp is super fun in modern wow, but man the player base is full of rude people lol. Ive also never cared about MTX or anything like that, does not take away from the classic feeling to me, the classic feeling is the way things interact and the crazy items and stuff you use. If they could just keep that like OSRS did then classic plus with tons of qol and new content would be good.
Looking forward to classic + and class balancing. Most important thing they do. Minor changes to make every spec feel viable. And ofc all the new stuff they add at 60. It's called classic + after all. :D
Lets be honest guys, we living a times in which people will make most efficient min max guide for people to skip most of the stuff in classic plus and the game will feel like a chore than a fun place once again. Classic was perfect example of this, everyone rushed to level 60, min maxing, purses, if you dealth 1% less dmg you would be replaced. " i dont have bis gear in this dungeon , why shall i join?" , "pay me and i will tank" etc People ruined the games with min maxing mentality, very very small % of people play for fun and enjoyment and they quitting because they are out of place.
minmaxxing = fun and enjoyment. Ive had 0 issues with people min maxxing, or people just playing. The only issue I have is when someone does next to nothing legitimately. Ive also never met anyone who cares, but I dont try to join hardcore raiders or anything, and make my own groups :P
EDIT: 11:35 holy moly, you actually said it. --This may sound insane to brainwashed npcs but the only way to make classic + is to make SSF single player wow and balance around it. Do what fable did and have shared worlds but other players can't f your playtime up by stealing resources or mobs. Keep group play with dungeons, world bosses, duo, trio + leveling groups , raids or w.e.. with different quest lines and instances.
I had a lot ouf doubt about SoD since it's made by moden Blizz and everyone is writing it's bad, but I started playing relativly recently (~lvl40) and it's realy fun! I love the spells from runes and the way you get them is a lot more fun that I thought it would be. The only negatives for me are xp boost and toxic "gogo"/minmax mentality of some players who just rush the game and want everything as quickly as possible.
Blizzard really dropped the ball on SOD. They should have stopped the classic era at wrath and have a team dedicated to just up keep. This would have opened the door for the classic team to fully invest time and resources to fully developing a GREAT SOD and potentially a Great classic plus. Currently I have doubt I’d play classic plus. I had a blast during phase 1 and raiding was great then they upped the difficulty which didn’t hurt me in performance it hurt me in trying to get a damn group together that wouldn’t wiped 10 times on “difficult” raid encounters. They should have add a basic “casual” raid difficulty with basic mechanics and then a hard mode that could be switched on for those looking for better loot and a more difficult experience.
There are two things that are making me completely uninterested in raiding in Classic, and that's fine since I love leveling a whole lot more and can get my fill on hardcore, but it would be nice to be able to go to a raid without insane amounts of preparation being optimal. I loved in TBC when they provided a cap on the amount of consumable buffs you could use at once, and obviously there's no world buffs then either. While I enjoyed what vanilla raiding I did back in 2004ish, that was always with very casual groups whose methods just wouldn't be seen with any group who wants to raid now. I don't want to spend time and money paying attention to world buff drops and using Chronoboon displacers (or whatever the buff suspender is called - I've never used them), running through a cleared DM, finding a Songflower to use, and then bringing every single helpful elixir on top of the most useful flask. At least, I pretty much assume they do that on hardcore because you need every edge you can get, and I suppose that it makes sense there since content is really designed around dying a lot and so you need to take every step to maximize your chances when you can't, but just the existence of those items puts me off wanting to raid even on regular Classic Era servers, because I fully expect to be admonished for not having enough buffs should I join them if I go with just what I would have brought to raids in 2004. If I just need a Battle Elixir, Guardian Elixir, plus mana and health potions, and that makes me as prepared as anyone can get, I would definitely get into raiding again, though I'll still focus on leveling alts on hardcore until i get them all done (currently 3/9).
As far as solo content goes, I always thought it would be cool if there was more content similar to the Hunter quest for Rhok'delar. For example, let's say every class had a solo challenge that gave a BIS (for all tiers) item, maybe a trinket or a cape or a weapon for melee classes- something that's usually harder to come by. Let's also say you can begin doing this solo challenge during Tier 1/Phase 1, but it's incredibly difficult. Only the best players can complete the challenge in Tier 1, and even for the best it would take many hours and many attempts in a way that is similar to raid progression. It should not just be a grind, but an expression of skill/mastery of your class. Having Tier 2 gear makes the challenge a bit easier, Tier 2.5 + Tier 3 even easier again (still not free by any means, it should be a challenge no matter what but obviously the difficulty of the challenge should scale inversely with gear). Basically, this would be something like Fight Caves or the Inferno in OSRS (best in slot cape), but it would be class-specific. Alternatively, maybe the challenge is a little less difficult and upon entering the challenge, your character is put into some set of gear that is the same for everyone else, or you have to go about finding/crafting some gear that only exists within the challenge. Another idea could be something akin to the rune system in SoD. Maybe rather than receiving a piece of gear from the solo challenge it's instead how you unlock your new "Classic +" abilities or talents. I do think in this case the challenges would have to be quite a bit easier considering having a new ability or talent is such an advantage that it would be incredibly frustrating to watch a handful of people get it in Tier 1 while most players have to wait until Tier 3. There could be more than one of these challenges that unlock during different phases/tiers, but ultimately I think this is the best way to implement solo challenges into the game. Edit: As far as what these challenges actually are, I don't really know, but either something like Fight Caves/Inferno from OSRS or maybe RPG-esque boss-fights that are tuned for your class specifically. For example, maybe a Warrior would have to intercept certain targets, use intimidating shout at a specific timing, pool enough rage for some sort of a multi-ability combo (like Sweeping Strikes > Zerker Stance > Whirlwind), be in right stance at the right time, etc. all while dodging certain mechanics.
Listen: gimme a slightly adjusted and tuned fresh WoW vanilla server with gdkp bans, no WB meta(therefore needs class balance) some additional content and Im 100% back.
SoD feels more like Wotlk/Cata/MoP than it does vanilla WoW. They hit the nail on the head pretty much perfectly in phase 1, but it's been straying further and further away from its roots since then. Phase 4 is almost unrecognizable.
Phase 4 is very recognizable, tho. We are currently raiding MC and grinding our way to getting our BiS for next patch. My guild has multiple raid teams that have downed MC heat 1 and are working towards heat 2.
Be specific. What exactly do you find unrecognizable about p4 compared to p1? Literally the only difference I can spot is that the raid is significantly harder and comes with BS resist difficulty scaling. Outside the raid the actual world and dungeon content at least as good as p1, imo significantly better
@bisalissy3846 so you want an unfinished mess of a game where the classes like paladins were only able to heal and make warriors the only viable melee dps, and have storylines unfinished? No, thank you.
@@powercheif You read all that from "The same raid setting doesn't make it the same game?" Wow xD And I don't want any of that either, you just listed 3 major problems I would like to see fixed in a Classic Plus.
TBC private servers all fail for a reason, (despite having the best private server coder working on it btw). TBC only had one good thing going for it. Raid progression. The world sucked compared to the original game because it was much smaller which was hurt even more by flight. The world pvp died due to changes, and arena can never work once the meta is figured out as already proven. TBC's raid progression the first time around was exceptional.The 2nd time around it was played out because all the other great design elements around the original game were gone or didn't matter. Game was so min maxed and figured out that you didn't have to bother. In addition entire classes aren't viable due to the min max so class representation was actually worse than vanilla lol. Example is rogue. No one even wanted them until council and they werent even good until the last raid after getting legendaries people fought over on multiple classes that often never dropped. A third release of TBC would just be all FOTM specs steamrolling raids in crafted gear on classes like lock. No thanks. Turtle WoW is already better than TBC was.
4:30 as a longtime manager of many meat shops, this little convo here really hits home, and this is a 100% accurate picture of what happens in a shop when you are short staffed, it literally happened to me today I had 2 sick call outs plus 1 person on funeral leave for the weekend plus 1 more who requested the day off and I approved way before the previous 3 situations. my current roster is 15 people plus myself, being down 4 of them of a Saturday hurt pretty bad there was a lot of running around, plus I get a lot of product delivered in on Saturdays that has to be put away in the backrooms.
Changes I would want in Classic Plus: -add more quests -add legion graphics (character models, newest spell animations, environment) -add more class combinations like troll warlock or orc mage -add world events (even at low levels) -new quests -new zones -new battlegrounds -add arena -add the incentive to attack zones from the other faction -redesign boss mechanics even for low level dungeons -add more mob abilities in the open world -make mobs use abilities more smarter (we have AI in 2024 so you should be able to) -class balancing needs to be on point and every spec should be playable -spells redesigned (like make pala buffs 30 mins)
SoD feels like Wotlk because 90% of the 'new' skills are copy and pasted from there. I think theres maybe 4 or 5 actually new and creative tunes across the entire game
@@sagacity1071 Shaman tank should def be baseline and a new spec. Its been something me and other shaman players have wanted forever. I remember many years ago ( back when druids got a new 4th spec for gaurdian) that it would be cool to expand and add new specs to existing classes, rather then a new class or race for a new xpac like blizz usually does. Shaman tank, earth aspect, was my first choice and prob the most popular request by the community. I also thought about other new specs like for the pure dps to all be hybrids.... so like chronomaner mage healer, the meta lock tank, and an evasion dodge rogue tank..... even a hunter that either could be a legit tank with their pet or somehow be a ranged healer, whcih could work but would need some creative spells and redesign. But Shaman tank.... always made the most sense, esp since they are hybrids already and had plans to have a tank spec in early design. I don't think the mage healer, rogue tank, or lock tank are quite as needed, even if they can work and be fun to play in Sod. Another class that I could see with a 4th spec was monks, based on the red crane/phoneix..... and be some mix of ranged damage and caster. I dunno if it would work thematically or functionally, but I could see a ninja type monk that uses thrown weapons and spells like that crackling jade lighnting or chi blasts, but more like a ranged dps then melee. Maybe even let them use bows/guns so its not just hunters who use those weapons. People have said that the red crane aspect is used for "fistweaver" melee healing mistweavers..... so bit opposite to what I was thinking but still interesting.
@@Rohan_Trishan i dont find the idea of 'a lot more of classes can tank now' appealing. it will take away from class flavour and uniqueness if everyone can do everything.
@ricsouza5011 True, I don't think every class needs a tank or healer pec added to it. Would be an interesting idea, but forced and prob wouldn't work for all classes, plus a you said it takes away from the hybrid roles like tanks already I the game... plus all the new classes they added which usually can tank or heal. But I still think they should make one exception for shaman tanks... only cause it could work and was an original plan for the class but enhancement became melee support dps instead of tank.
The things that would bring me back to WoW will never happen (P2W removed, Add-Ons banned, new engine with updated graphics) so for now Azeroth will just have to remain a fond memory for me.
no one has actually concretely said what additions they want there to be - raids? where? what would the item level be of the new loot? would you just make raids and dungeons irrelevant by the third new raid release? WHERE would you put the things? since a lot of criticism the internet is giving is "DFC is JUST put into a zone" ....
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
since 1.12 lacks a lot of tier gear coverage and sparse offpiece and trinket and weapon coverage, theres room for 2 if not more raids, each tier, alongside the original. You can also do it like turtle wow where they are going to t3.5 and t4 as well which i think is bold
Seeing all the comments about how they (Blizz) would mess up Classic+ or Blizz making too many changes with the classes made me realize: The community is the same of a prob as it is Blizz themselves. I loved all the class changes in SoD. I even want more. But what I really want is new zones, dungeons, bosses, monaters, quests, raids, PvP options & so on. I don't wanna do daily shit like in retail. I wanna do daily shit because it is fun & not mandatory. Also this whole fuckin minmaxin bs & you need 1k addons fuckin sucks. Give us Classic+ with no Timegate lvl cap, no XP boost & just more content. Add achievments & other cool stuff that increases the quality of life & I will be happy. And pls no more seasonal shit. This is the reason why I (& so many of my friends & guild members) stopped caring for SoD. Because why should I even bother if everything will be gone in the future 😓 I want new races & classes just like some awesome private servers are doing it. Improved graphics (because why the f not?!). If it's not classic enough, then people should just play classic & not Classic+ or SoD...
Yes! They'd need to put a stop to world buff meta, mages from being able to boost level 50-60's in ZG and Maraudon, and stop the meta with min/maxing everything. Nowadays it's all "everyone HAS to be the same and use XX items for BIS and look the same, act the same, spec the same", there's just no personalisation and character anymore, and that's what we need back in Azeroth.
@@andytaylor1617 community created these, and I hate that people ruined classic for everyone. Even the casual guilds asking for parses and min maxing...
If they made SOD, they can make classic + unfortunately it's Blizzard, for now they have too many projects to start another one. I think that many people hoped that SOD would be a classic +, where in the old vanilla they would add new dungeons, improve the characters to make them more playable and that's it. Unfortunately, they did something retail-like with SOD with all these new skills. It seems to me that most people, when talking about character balance, said - give the Paladin a Tount or a Druid (bear - area DMG, moonkin - mana regeneration) and not make the warlock a tank or a healer of the mage
Blizzard, can we PLEASE add some customization for Boomie? Really sucks working so hard on BiS gear and rare items, and can’t flex like I’d like to lol. I know you can see weapon and off-hand, but we would love to be able to look different.
Honestly, they should really just end the classic expansions at MoP and solely focus on whatever classic + is. Then maybe in the future classic expansions can be released again as "seasonal" experiences with low maintenance
They should have stopped after WotLK, maybe just drop Cata and beyond as "Remix" like they just did for MoP, and they should be keeping static "era" realms for vanilla, TBC, and WotLK as well as cyclical fresh realms for all 3
Would love a Classic+ experience that's designed for the long term. But Blizz would have to confirm in advance that there would never be any progression to any of the expansions, so that we can actually enjoy Classic for what it is, with no need to rush any of the content for fear of missing out on it due to a new expat coming out.
Class balance and some new solo content sounds good to me. It doesn't have to be easy solo content, like you suggested, it can just be reasonably doable by a person who is alright at their class, without help. Part of the Classic community are the ones who enjoy things like solo self-found action sometimes. Thumbs up!
@@yayano8415 because warrior, rogue, mage, lock being the only viable raiding specs for dps kinda kills any enjoyment a druid or shaman player may have. Literally just make mama manageable, it's not a lot to ask...
@@Frostgnaw a pure dps class should do more damage than a hybrid. Part of being a hybrid is filling roles that are needed. If a hybrid is out damaging pure dps the pure dps classes lose their luster
@@Joshboyes1 I'm a balance druid main. I loved my niche role in classic, but the hybrid tax should really only apply if you are dipping into talent trees that aren't dps-related. If I go 20 points into the resto tree, yeah, my dps should suffer because of it. But if I go full into balance and still struggle to cast a single spell, that's not exactly fun.
Classic+ for me is; new race, new zones, BRAND NEW quests and raids and maybe even a new class. Sorta like an alternate TBC expansion but in classic. Knowing this would never happen and Blizzard would screw up even if they were to attempt it I moved on. I am done with the cycle that is expect new things to be added but have slightly altered versions of already existing features.
Turtlewow is my classic plus. I've only got a pally to 36 and a hunter in the teens but it feels like vanilla. I've seen a few new quests like a chain about the harvest golems in Westfall from a new npc by the innkeeper in sentinel hill that leads to gnillid in the deadmines and then beyond. Other changes seem sensible, like Paladins train Consecrate at 20 so tankadins don't have to start down the holy tree for AoE threat. You also get a taunt by spending 3 points into an improved seal of justice talent and mana back on blocks with 3 points into shield specialization. What they're not doing is random changes willy nilly like adding QoL stuff from later expansions. As much as it annoys me, mend pet is still a channel and traps require you to be out of combat to lay them. You can still hid the laying animation by doing it at the apex of a jump though, which is pretty sweet. Oh also there are high elves for alliance, human and gnome hunters and horde has goblins so I guess those are pretty big changes.
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
I feel like everyone has diffrent ideas about Classic Plus. And some of them are very polarizing. That's the major problem with the concept - and the reason why Blizzard will recieve some hate no matter what.
Okay so I’m an interesting sample, I’ve played Retail for about 2 years now, I never played classic or vanilla and I have been playing SoD for about a year now. I know SoD is not vanilla but it’s my closest exp to it and imo Retail and Classic SoD are two different games imo. Classic SoD is just this slow paced game and it’s all about leveling like I could give a shit about being 60 rn, I’m currently 40 there’s no campaign guiding me anywhere I’m just picking what zones I wanna level in and I’m fucking walking everywhere lol I mean shit flight paths are goat when you can only walk lol. It’s so fun tho! Gear feels so much more rewarding in classic and if I get something good like a blue I’m holding on to that shit for 10 levels who knows! I think the real difference is: 1. Flying I think flying mounts changed the game to Retail 2. Leveling Pace Leveling is fun, challenging, long and you have to be prepared. I can’t pull too many mobs in classic. In retail I feel like a God leveling which can get dull sometimes unless I’m playing PvP. In Classic I’m humbled by the game while leveling. 3. Loot/Gear Loot and gear just feels more important in classic. It’s obviously important in retail too but there’s so many ways to get gear in retail everyone’s got purps and some purps suck, if you have a purp in classic your fucking pumping. It just feels more rewarding the less accessible it is I guess. I know most of this stuff prolly seems obvious to some but like I said I’m a noob and a new person playing classic and this is what I’ve come to notice. I swear to god if you take out flying from retail it would make such a difference. Something about walking/mount only in classic makes the game feel so big and makes it feel like an MMO and makes me feel like I’m exploring the world.
@@itswhzly Its actually a accurate opinion. I would add also a few more things like raids are not about mechanics, and are about preparation (taking worldbuffs, having a good setup, consumables). Also gold is waaaay more important than retail, consumables are expensive as hell in classic era/ sod compared to retail, retail consumables are literally free. Also i would add that retail tries to balance classes to have them close to each other in terms of dmg / hps. In classic era/sod there are supporting classes that are dps but its dmg input is shit, but they add good buffs / debuffs / resources. Another difference from retail is the variety of raids. In retail when the next raid tiers opens, the past one gets obsolete and its useless. In classic era, the items from the first raid, are very good and some are even bis for the rest expansion, so you do all raids compared to retail where you just do 1 raid. Professions are way much more important in classic compared to retail, in terms of gold gathering or advantages in raid as sappers / invulnerability potions / free action potions etc. Also de pvp system is not based on skill but on grinding and the gear you get from pvp is hiper good even for raiding. There is much more "roleplay" in classic, due to items and racials like horde, human etc. having inanse passives that you can cover up with other items if you dont choose that good class, like expertise in swords on humans that you cover up with edgemasters gloves as gnome / Nelf. In general the game is much more complex, more rewarding, you need to put more time on knowledge and less on skill and you need to interact with players to make groups / elite quests / professions / dungeons not as on retail where you just solo elites / insta que rdf on retail. Its actually a mmo, while in retail, you could do the same content but in a format as league of legends just queing your characters into a dungeon / raid / mythic plus / arena / battleground, and you wouldnt really need the "MMO aspect" in order to play the game, while on classic era you do.
Can you imagine the SoD team instead saying "Yeah actually we don't want to hold onto our jobs or anything so this is the end and nothing else will be coming in the future." They're going to do whatever it takes to keep Mommy Blizzard giving them a paycheck.
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
From what I 've seen in SoD, I don't think they actually have the ability to create new assets in this old engine. All they did was migrate it to the retail engines backend... There isn't a single new enemy that isn't a re-skin, new boss is just existingasset @ 4000% size...nothing. EVERYTHING they have done, is stuff a Server Admin/Game Master can do with the shorthand code that's built in, and a bit of backend stuff, like creating an instance portal, changing and tuning the math/values. Am I the only one that thinks they actually don't have the ability to create brand new stuff in this current Classic client/engine?
Blizzard only knows how to over promise and under deliver. The expectations are always so high that the reality of whatever they release will never catch up. MMORPG’s require imagination, not machination and micro transactions.
Thanks Willy, I think you're the voice of true wow classic enjoyers. You aren't just doing negative content for views, your praise the good and give constructive criticism where is needed and you actually play the game. I'd highlight your last phrase "If you don't like change, go to Classic Era"
@@Falcon-ob7uf I'd love it if Classic+ did include class tweaks and new abilities, but restrained on the same mindset of class identity (and shortcomings) of the original Vanilla developers. For example, I'd be very interested in the design space as is for Paladins and their Seal/Auto Attack based gameplay, I would want to see new ideas improving on that and staying true to the original concept. Not give every class the thing they're lacking, nor copy paste abilities from retail. It'd be something entirely new, in spirit of the old class designs.
Legion's profession questlines were some of the best singleplayer content they've ever done, and I've always thought it could be brought back very easily. A profession update in general would be very welcome alongside things like the group finder and other social features.
The interval between playerbase wishes is so large to a point that you really can t please all. They should keep classic+ casual friendly and focus on retail/cata for more die hard fans which play 10h a day
I personally don't want stat ratings and I think new gear in hypothetical post-naxx content shouldn't just be bigger number. There is some stats in vanilla that aren't really used like haste (except on warchief blessing and like 1 enchant) that you can add to gear, you can also downport stats like Expertise which as a side effect will inherently increase warriors/rogues crit cap. A hypothetical Tier 3.5 could have stats with the same budget as naxx gear but focus more on offspecs, like tier 2.5 gear kind of did for most classes while/or incorporating the previously mentioned new stats.
I HEAVILY encourage anyone interested in a classic+ version to check out Turtle WoW. You don't have to play on it, just check their content on youtube, and you'll see what a real classic+ should look like.
I doubt those groups intersect as much as you think. SoD was supposed to be experimental. The No ChAnGeS crowd shouldt be a consideration at all on this.
@@HealzHS sure. We could all just go read books but we want to play WoW. Who cares if people follow guides. You can use that addon that tells you how to level precisely but most do not use it. That’s not a great reason not to make epic quests with great story and have large scale crafting projects available.
@QurikOfficial but again most of people won't do them and others will be frustrated. Look in Classic for example. People had hard time finding groups because "I don't have bis in this dungeon so I won't come waste my time" .... "my friends charing for tanking so I should too , 10g to tank this dungeon" and more People will rush and you are either left behind and have nobody to do these quests or rush ahead and don't do these quests because they take extra time. You absolutely can make them, just the community will ruin them.
@@HealzHS that’s not happening on Wild Growth. They absolutely will be completed. The warlock has an epic quest for their dreadstead. Do some skip it? Yep. Do most warlocks complete it? Absolutely.
A tremendous amount of players have been working on the tier.5 questline only to begin replacing most pieces two weeks after P4 came out. Epic quests have a lot to offer when implemented correctly. Maybe LFR is more these people speed of they can’t find a way to get groups. In classic we know that you have to make at least a couple friends to play with.
I have always thought the OSRS voting system was how Classic+ would go but you bring up a great point about fragmentation. As much as we aren't supposed to talk about "unofficial" servers, I think it's fair to say the hardcore Classic+ crowd want Turtle wow made by blizzard. For those who aren't familiar it fixes the classes that are underperforming and leaves the working classes alone except small percentage changes ie. "warriors work leave them alone, hunters work but don't scale well so add an attack power modifier to more abilities and pets, Ret is awful so maybe they get crusader strike because it makes them work alongside a few percent changes" etc. New content for sure but adding a dozen future spells to every spec was wildly over-reaching what Classic+ ever meant
If classic plus is anything like SoD, dont bother and just let the game die. SoD was such a big opportunity for changed and the majority of changes have been lacklustre at best
I think the point about Classic+ requiring a bigger team is the most important point. The reason why a lot of the SoD changes felt like something out of a private server is because the SoD team has the same problem as most private servers; all programmers and no artists. They can't make new assets. They just have to find creative ways to re-use existing stuff so it ends up feeling cheap and phoned in. Classic+ needs artists to make new assets in the old art style so they can make new zones and dungeons and whatnot.
exactly lol, plenty of streamers and tubers talk about pservers doing blizz' job correctly, but some like wille are insanely terrified of daddy blizz when there is real no reason to be
The thing is, this iteration of Blizzard has no scope of idea, why WoW was great in the first place. It’s a complete alien topic, so the odds for them to pull it off is nearly nonexistent.
Cata classic is stale, sod is more retail than classic. all i wanted when we were originally talking about sod or classic+, is NORMAL CLASSIC with more raids, items, SLIGHT community voted changes like ret pally getting buffed to be viable etc, and more loot for niche classes and hybrid specs. Give us Scarlet Monestary Raids, finish original classic ideas that were never fleshed out, maybe add more cities or make bold choices.
It's tragic that most people seem to call for 40 mans, when 10 mans are simply that much better. 20 mans alright too, above that it's just a zerg with nightmare organisation.
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD (example giving paladin holy strike and crusader strike and mana back on each block // hunter a kinda steady shot like tbc // arcane mage playeable // warrior 2h new ability for pve // spriest mana recover for its group // shaman tanking spec and more), i truly recommend it.
I have a buddy that plays turtle and he says all the same things you are saying. It sounds really cool in theory, but I cannot shake the strangely uncanny feeling of playing on something that is not blizzard official. And it's not for any logical reason, im not scared of the servers going down and losing all my work. It's more like the feeling "mom can we have mcdonalds?" "No. We have mcdonalds at home" kinda feel. I can't really explain it, it just gives me a knockoff brand feeling and it would rob me of a fun experience... I wish I could enjoy it though
2:04 “..but I think It hasn’t met a lot of people’s expectations” this is completely incorrect. The population of SoD speaks for itself. This is the population growth for SoD P4. Week 1: 22k Week 2: 42k Week 3: 79k Classic era is still sitting at 17k player base.
The blogging is a VERY important part about the voting process, it allows people to point out what could go right and wrong. This allows the developers the opportunity to fine tune changes or cut/add things based off of community feedback.
The problem is now SoD is that it's seasonal, so it's become a very "fast paced" game. Dailies, increased XP due to its short-lived nature, etc (hence why even a lot of retail players are having some fun in it). I don't think this is a bad thing, but it certainly isn't a permanent vanilla+ because it feels more like TBC or WOTLK rather than vanilla. It works as a 1 year seasonal server and that's it.
My biggest concern with Classic+ is that they've given us power in SoD that they may take away. I can't imagine paladin tanking without at least analogs to what they've added.
I think they’re gonna reveal something on the 20th anniversary… Then when SoD & Cata ends we get something new… we just finished panda remix don’t think they gonna do pandaria again, also splitting classic audiences was a mistake… when sod came up wrath basically ended and then when Cata came up SoD got hit… Not sure what they’re gonna do, but to get enough interest, it basically needs to be a new game… if it’s just vanilla with a “twist” it won’t last… I personally, have enough of vanilla… last few years I replayed it too many times that if it doesn’t come with some big changes like classes, talents, quests, dungeons, raids and PvP (basically everything) then it doesn’t matter…
I’d be all for classic+ if it was completely revamped graphics using all the original armors and items, add the sod rune system, don’t add new races or classes, revamp the instances with 2 modes. Classic and classic+ with different loot pools and difficulties
Honestly as far as solo content goes I feel like putting in far more class quests would go a long way. They don't have to be pushovers either, they can be along the lines of the hunter bow or benediction.
they already did Classic +, it was called tbc and it was great. Arguably the best version of the game ever. Let's be honest, anything they do now won't feel the same.
I played Wow from the end of Vanilla to the end of Cataclysm, and raided heavily throughout though my favourite time was TBC. I have considered trying to get back into it but there are just far too many expansions I've missed now. I would have loved to have played during Wow Classic release into TBC Classic, but I was preoccupied with life at the time. I would absolutely sub to and play a Wow Classic+.
5:39 "it's not financially successful enough" Well, I try to convince people to use the inflation calculator and understand that $14.99 in 2005 = $24.11 in 2024. If you want Blizzard to give Classic+ mid-2000s effort, then you have to pay mid-2000s $. Everyone just has too much of a sense of self-entitlement. They want want want, but they don't want to pay for it.
In short, I don't want Classic+ because no one is willing to pay for a high-quality version of it. The 2005 equivalent of $9.32 a month for the subscription fee, or less if you take the 6-month deal, is cheap shit. I want high quality WoW, not cheap shit. I'd rather just have fresh era.
yes, you may always talk about classic+ honestly, thinking about how games can improve is often more fun than to play games, it is one of the most creative processes
I would also want updated models. There is no reason why you cannot have Classic game play without updating them. I don't need to be reminded that graphics in 2004 basically sucked.
Absolutely HATED the endgame focus of SoD, and the fast-pace, super gear/ability power creep and retailification of everything and homogenization of classes. Every one of those is completely antithetical to what made vanilla a timeless classic.
I have zero faith in their ability to make a classic plus that feels like classic
I play and love Era but I also know what the community wants is closer to SoD than Era+
@@ocanica3184 Is it? I would guess it's the opposite, what community wants is definitely era+, not sod
Classic vanilla (OG and first time they redid it)
It was amazing to have a redo at classic. It gave me a level of closure I never thought I’d get with this game.
We killed KT and we did it, the hardest anything wow ever implemented, and we did it.
Phoenix Squad
@@ocanica3184 I feel the opposite is true.
T-WoW is the way.
I started playing HC again recently, and I had such a good time grouping up for quests in Redridge that it made me realise what I want from Classic+: An archetypal world that contains a variety of threats, on a spectrum from being able to complete solo, to needing a group.
You know what I always thought? Make a few mobs that aren't elite, that are raid-like. They got mechanics like "don't stand in the fire", or maybe some AoE explosion or Maybe a countdown for huge damage, and make these mobs available with questing, 3 per zone, so it doesn't feel like you're hitting a brick wall (with elites) but rather a mechanically challenging mob.
Classic+ is all I'm waiting for right now
Yhyh, my subs been gone since sod p3, I’ll be back for classic+
I'm so ready for it, hope we hear something official soon
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
why wait lmao turtle wow is right there
@@chrishernandez1323 dude stop shilling ur private server :D
They should hire the Turtle Team for Classic+ - they know what Classic+ means for Classic Players.
Blizzard won’t hire new devs until they can monetize Classic
lmao nah
Yea, they don’t know how to secure players data though do they. I can’t see them being around for much longer
So true
bro, what?
I have a hard time believing that Blizzard will ever give Classic the required funding it needs when there’s no monetization to support it.
If I could pay monthly for Classic only (not retail), I would.
@@Sap3r3Aud3 uhh, you are doing exactly that. Youre paying a sub, and you only play Classic. I dont see where the difference to you is.
The monetization is the subscription cost
@@mariogallego5513the difference he is trying to voice is the specification of wanting to only fund classic wow vs funding being allocated to wow instead with his subscription.
@@chakchakswags this. People think only an inch in front of their face. I would also sub only to classic for the same price.
Cant wait for them to hype us up for classic+ then ruin it.
you forgot the part where they claim it was never really classic + and the real classic + is coming out in future so stay sub'd
They don’t have the imagination required for classic + lol. They literally just added retail skills to classic realms and called it discovery LOL
@@yayano8415 They dont have will to put effort/money/team to work on classic+
Classic atm is just cashgrab without any real effort put on it.
ofc blizz cant make it right for you wow addicts playing this game for 20 years, take a break, you guys are so toxic and depressed about the game nonstop. Typical addict
the change will be ingame cash show in vanilla lol
As much as i woukd like to have classic +, i dont think blizzard could currently make this work. They would only ruin the dreams of all classic players have of what + would look like.
What should classic + look like?
I just want Blizz to preserve the vanilla feeling. It is Freedom of choice and Azeroth felt big and strong in compare to my hero.
Now it feels, like my Hero is too strong in comparison to the Environment. It feels like the World is getting smaller and less important.
I was thinking same. It feels more and more like retail. Its just too easy.
The world was smaller, you were stuck in a few relevant zones every patch.
Then play era. Anything else won't be "vanilla feeling". Furthermore both you and the players have changed massively since vanilla, it'll be pretty hard to replicate that "child in 2005 being a noob, but loves exploring the world" feeling
Microsoft has a gold mine in their hands, if they reboot the whole Warcraft universe.
They can start with the RTS games and launch WoW again after Warcraft 3.
Hopefully the dev team has learned what made Vanilla and TBC great, and they focus on that.
@@eddgrs9193 they've done quite OK with age of empires IV, so warcraft reboots should definitely be a possibility!
There is actually a VERY large split in the OSRS player base. The voting system is used as a warzone between PvPers and PvEers. There is a LOT of spite voting that goes on.
Yeah I was just about to comment something similar myself. WoW people always gotta be special and different than everyone else though.
And in the past there were even more factions.. the ironman vs anti ironman spite voters for example .. of course those polls are restricted now, thankfully
I do think they need to balance the game around PVP First and foremost, and then do pve after. the PVP in sod is absolute DOODOO but the pve is fine so far
yup. democracy doesn't work. only meritocracy works.
this hasnt been true for awhile, theres just not enough pkers to sway the votes like that
Season of Discovery peaked at 500,000 RAIDERS via Warcraftlogs not just players. That's $7,500,000 on subscriptions in a single month! The fact that Blizzard thought it was a good idea to have the same team in charge of Cata that is doing SoD shows you that upper management has no idea what they are doing. I play SoD but I feel like no changes should ever be made to Era and the fact that they thought it was okay (before everyone protested the changes) gives me a great deal of concern for Classic+. I don't want SoD+ I want Classic+ plain and simple!
We need minor QoL & Class/Ability changes that bring balance and make classes work better. No crazy new roles that don‘t make sense. Then just a heck new load of story, dungeons, raids, pvp…
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
You just literally described what turtle wow is
@@chrishernandez1323 turtle wow needs to have a consoleport so i can play through it. Wrists are mush from using mouse and keyboard for a long time
@@powercheif you're quite the odd ball if you're playing an mmorpg on a console. You just map everything to a controller? What's stopping you from doing that now using a USB controller and software? Besides the fact that it's crazy!
@@powercheif while theres no consoleport addon itself, all old private servers work with steam controller input. theres a shagu controller addon that preconfigures keybinds and the UI for steam defaults. people play twow on the steam deck and have a decent time
A really cool thing about SoD, from perspective, is some of the brand new people that have tried the game. I have people in my guild that have never played before being brought in by brothers and husbands or fathers that have been playing the game for ages. Examples include two rogues of brothers, a husband wife of Druid and mage/ rogue. A father - daughter of mage warlock, and more. New people are coming to World of Warcraft in a classic era. I still remember seeing countless new people playing in hardcore. Many never made it to 60 but I knew one that did. Bromin dwarf hunter, I salute you.
This world is still thriving. And I’m all for it.
Is it too late to hop into SOD?
@@trey_dizzle4161 it absolutely is not! Now is a good time to do it too. We’re about to get a new phase for content and we still have plenty of time to do things. You don’t even have to rush. Enjoy the game at your own pace, find a group of murder hobos that support you, and have fun. If you’d like, it you join Horde on Crusader Strike you can join with us!
@@brandoncastellano1858 sweet I'll check it out! How fast is the leveling though because I don't have a lot of free time during the week? Thanks 👍🏻
@@trey_dizzle4161 it’s accelerated levelling at 100% I believe. Should take less than a week to hit 60.
@@brandoncastellano1858 oh sweet! Looks like I'll be joining after work now I can't decide on a class 😂 maybe a shaman, priest, warlock, or Hunter
Classic plus:
- finish zones (Azshara,M. Hyjal, Tanaris…)
- Keep level cap at 60
- End game class quests (Legendaries)
- Add level 60 ammo
- Barbershop
- finish some of the quests
Play Twow!
@@janniesneed4511 lmfao
Couple classes could use a teaspoon of viability
@@GalaKrond-b7k its better than anything blizzard could come up with lmfao
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "Blizzard needs to decide who they are making this game for". There's an obvious split in the #noChanges crowd and the #changes crowd. But they can't please everyone. They just have to make a decision and roll with it. Once again, ERA is for those people who want no changes IMO.
That's right. If someone wants "No changes" they can go to CE. Anyone who thinks guild banks and hunters being able to set traps in combat is a "retail mindset" has their own containment version to stay in.
Yes. They fumbled SOD terribly. Phase 1 was the most excited I have felt with WoW in many years. It quickly went downhill. I tried to give the devs the benefit of the doubt knowing the team is small. But, by now they have had plenty of chances and did nothing but prove they either don’t care or are just genuinely not cut out for the task.
Yep, same. SOD phase 1 was so exciting, and then phase 2 came out and just ruined it for me. They made leveling incredibly boring, and ruined what makes classic, classic. The journey to 60.
Bait
They're just 100% out of touch with how vanilla players thinks and plays, because they don't, they still want some retail stuff, thinking it's better, but it's worse.
People were excited at 25 bc it was this new untouched shiny thing. Nothing special about p1 change my mind
Certainly, the preferences of vanilla players can vary widely, leading to differing opinions on desired features. In my perspective, a classic plus version would entail the enhancement of all classes to ensure they can effectively fulfill their respective roles at a high level. This could include the inclusion of paladin tanks and Druid DPS. Additionally, the introduction of new content, such as completing storylines that were left unfinished and incorporating raids that were previously scrapped, would further enhance the gaming experience.
I have to admit that after SoD it’s hard to imagine returning to a vanilla-ish game without similar degrees of class changes. It’s tough because there is an audience for each of the hundreds of possible futures for classic+ out there, and nobody seems to agree on much beyond the basic QoL stuff and vague notions of “more content better balance”
I don’t think people will want to admit that some of the changes in SOD are so good it will be hard to go back to vanilla after this. Warlock closets, druids wild strikes, hunter traps usable in combat, extra classes to take up slots as tanks and healers making grouping much better, loot token systems for raids, I could go on and on about the changes I have loved from SOD.
@@trevorburton3290 i dont agree most of the change was goofy mage healer rogue tank it was not immersive on top having bad class balance in the end it just a test and it fine but classic plus should not be Sod if you want that play retail wow. i agree some change in classic plus would be nice but not over the top
@@TatsuyaWow What would be your suggestions then? The Go Play Retail, crowd tends to overlook basic things that TBC and WOTLK improved on.
Classic+ shouldn't simply be new raid tiers.
@@TatsuyaWow classic + without meta lock is just not going to cut it. You can’t get that in retail either. New class/roles are always welcome because class and roles are not what makes classic great. Class/role identity, sure. But class/role variety? That’s a good thing. Give us more. Most class/roles sucked in classic so mage healer and rogue tank sucking is right on the money.
this is how I feel about modern wow in general. I dont like it because all the systems they add and the bad story, but the gameplay is far superior to older wow in most every way from my perspective. As someone whos played since 2004 and went back to classic, I just cant enjoy classic because how simple / slow it is, but I did get value out of wotlk and now cata. Meanwhile gladiator pvp is super fun in modern wow, but man the player base is full of rude people lol. Ive also never cared about MTX or anything like that, does not take away from the classic feeling to me, the classic feeling is the way things interact and the crazy items and stuff you use. If they could just keep that like OSRS did then classic plus with tons of qol and new content would be good.
Looking forward to classic + and class balancing. Most important thing they do. Minor changes to make every spec feel viable. And ofc all the new stuff they add at 60. It's called classic + after all. :D
They should also build out horizontally at every leveling range in every zone, especially unfinished zones like Azshara for example
great takes Willie /bow
What would you say about classic+ if they banned boosting ?
Bankai!
Whats ur opinion on no boosting and no gdkp kappa
Lets be honest guys, we living a times in which people will make most efficient min max guide for people to skip most of the stuff in classic plus and the game will feel like a chore than a fun place once again.
Classic was perfect example of this, everyone rushed to level 60, min maxing, purses, if you dealth 1% less dmg you would be replaced. " i dont have bis gear in this dungeon , why shall i join?" , "pay me and i will tank" etc
People ruined the games with min maxing mentality, very very small % of people play for fun and enjoyment and they quitting because they are out of place.
minmaxxing = fun and enjoyment. Ive had 0 issues with people min maxxing, or people just playing. The only issue I have is when someone does next to nothing legitimately. Ive also never met anyone who cares, but I dont try to join hardcore raiders or anything, and make my own groups :P
EDIT: 11:35 holy moly, you actually said it. --This may sound insane to brainwashed npcs but the only way to make classic + is to make SSF single player wow and balance around it. Do what fable did and have shared worlds but other players can't f your playtime up by stealing resources or mobs. Keep group play with dungeons, world bosses, duo, trio + leveling groups , raids or w.e.. with different quest lines and instances.
yeah mandatory group content to grind for everything is the most annoying part of wow
I had a lot ouf doubt about SoD since it's made by moden Blizz and everyone is writing it's bad, but I started playing relativly recently (~lvl40) and it's realy fun! I love the spells from runes and the way you get them is a lot more fun that I thought it would be. The only negatives for me are xp boost and toxic "gogo"/minmax mentality of some players who just rush the game and want everything as quickly as possible.
sadly they dont know what fun is man. playing a game and min/max shit is insane like its about fun
Damn dude my guys not guna have to farm ST
Blizzard really dropped the ball on SOD. They should have stopped the classic era at wrath and have a team dedicated to just up keep. This would have opened the door for the classic team to fully invest time and resources to fully developing a GREAT SOD and potentially a Great classic plus. Currently I have doubt I’d play classic plus. I had a blast during phase 1 and raiding was great then they upped the difficulty which didn’t hurt me in performance it hurt me in trying to get a damn group together that wouldn’t wiped 10 times on “difficult” raid encounters. They should have add a basic “casual” raid difficulty with basic mechanics and then a hard mode that could be switched on for those looking for better loot and a more difficult experience.
There are two things that are making me completely uninterested in raiding in Classic, and that's fine since I love leveling a whole lot more and can get my fill on hardcore, but it would be nice to be able to go to a raid without insane amounts of preparation being optimal. I loved in TBC when they provided a cap on the amount of consumable buffs you could use at once, and obviously there's no world buffs then either. While I enjoyed what vanilla raiding I did back in 2004ish, that was always with very casual groups whose methods just wouldn't be seen with any group who wants to raid now. I don't want to spend time and money paying attention to world buff drops and using Chronoboon displacers (or whatever the buff suspender is called - I've never used them), running through a cleared DM, finding a Songflower to use, and then bringing every single helpful elixir on top of the most useful flask. At least, I pretty much assume they do that on hardcore because you need every edge you can get, and I suppose that it makes sense there since content is really designed around dying a lot and so you need to take every step to maximize your chances when you can't, but just the existence of those items puts me off wanting to raid even on regular Classic Era servers, because I fully expect to be admonished for not having enough buffs should I join them if I go with just what I would have brought to raids in 2004.
If I just need a Battle Elixir, Guardian Elixir, plus mana and health potions, and that makes me as prepared as anyone can get, I would definitely get into raiding again, though I'll still focus on leveling alts on hardcore until i get them all done (currently 3/9).
As far as solo content goes, I always thought it would be cool if there was more content similar to the Hunter quest for Rhok'delar.
For example, let's say every class had a solo challenge that gave a BIS (for all tiers) item, maybe a trinket or a cape or a weapon for melee classes- something that's usually harder to come by.
Let's also say you can begin doing this solo challenge during Tier 1/Phase 1, but it's incredibly difficult. Only the best players can complete the challenge in Tier 1, and even for the best it would take many hours and many attempts in a way that is similar to raid progression. It should not just be a grind, but an expression of skill/mastery of your class. Having Tier 2 gear makes the challenge a bit easier, Tier 2.5 + Tier 3 even easier again (still not free by any means, it should be a challenge no matter what but obviously the difficulty of the challenge should scale inversely with gear). Basically, this would be something like Fight Caves or the Inferno in OSRS (best in slot cape), but it would be class-specific.
Alternatively, maybe the challenge is a little less difficult and upon entering the challenge, your character is put into some set of gear that is the same for everyone else, or you have to go about finding/crafting some gear that only exists within the challenge.
Another idea could be something akin to the rune system in SoD. Maybe rather than receiving a piece of gear from the solo challenge it's instead how you unlock your new "Classic +" abilities or talents. I do think in this case the challenges would have to be quite a bit easier considering having a new ability or talent is such an advantage that it would be incredibly frustrating to watch a handful of people get it in Tier 1 while most players have to wait until Tier 3.
There could be more than one of these challenges that unlock during different phases/tiers, but ultimately I think this is the best way to implement solo challenges into the game.
Edit: As far as what these challenges actually are, I don't really know, but either something like Fight Caves/Inferno from OSRS or maybe RPG-esque boss-fights that are tuned for your class specifically. For example, maybe a Warrior would have to intercept certain targets, use intimidating shout at a specific timing, pool enough rage for some sort of a multi-ability combo (like Sweeping Strikes > Zerker Stance > Whirlwind), be in right stance at the right time, etc. all while dodging certain mechanics.
Listen: gimme a slightly adjusted and tuned fresh WoW vanilla server with gdkp bans, no WB meta(therefore needs class balance) some additional content and Im 100% back.
Yes! 100% Agree to the GDKP Bans, putting an end to WB Meta, and potentially blocking mages ability to being able to solo boost in ZG and Maraudon.
@@andytaylor1617
No need to touch mages, just ban boosting like GDKPs. Everybody wins.
@@Lenarian Yeh that's a fair point!
blizz wants to appeal to new players. nostalgia bros dont tend to stick much and tend to quit after a while
SoD feels more like Wotlk/Cata/MoP than it does vanilla WoW. They hit the nail on the head pretty much perfectly in phase 1, but it's been straying further and further away from its roots since then. Phase 4 is almost unrecognizable.
Phase 4 is very recognizable, tho. We are currently raiding MC and grinding our way to getting our BiS for next patch. My guild has multiple raid teams that have downed MC heat 1 and are working towards heat 2.
Be specific. What exactly do you find unrecognizable about p4 compared to p1? Literally the only difference I can spot is that the raid is significantly harder and comes with BS resist difficulty scaling. Outside the raid the actual world and dungeon content at least as good as p1, imo significantly better
@@powercheif Raiding MC doesn't make it classic though. Just like Naxx didn't do that in WotLK P1.
@bisalissy3846 so you want an unfinished mess of a game where the classes like paladins were only able to heal and make warriors the only viable melee dps, and have storylines unfinished? No, thank you.
@@powercheif You read all that from "The same raid setting doesn't make it the same game?" Wow xD
And I don't want any of that either, you just listed 3 major problems I would like to see fixed in a Classic Plus.
Let Phase 4 breathe, it's doing well so far and most normal people are working through the heat levels. No need to rush BWL.
Lol are you for real ? how's that "doing well" when they litterally lost 84% of the servers population in 2 phases ?
You're being delusional af
@@Jwilaoupayoure not you when youre hungry
lol doing well xDDDD
Let's talk about bringing TBC back! I had so much fun with it in 2021/22 and I miss it dearly. Bring back The Burning Crusade, Blizzard !!!
TBC private servers all fail for a reason, (despite having the best private server coder working on it btw). TBC only had one good thing going for it. Raid progression. The world sucked compared to the original game because it was much smaller which was hurt even more by flight. The world pvp died due to changes, and arena can never work once the meta is figured out as already proven. TBC's raid progression the first time around was exceptional.The 2nd time around it was played out because all the other great design elements around the original game were gone or didn't matter. Game was so min maxed and figured out that you didn't have to bother. In addition entire classes aren't viable due to the min max so class representation was actually worse than vanilla lol. Example is rogue. No one even wanted them until council and they werent even good until the last raid after getting legendaries people fought over on multiple classes that often never dropped. A third release of TBC would just be all FOTM specs steamrolling raids in crafted gear on classes like lock. No thanks. Turtle WoW is already better than TBC was.
4:30 as a longtime manager of many meat shops, this little convo here really hits home, and this is a 100% accurate picture of what happens in a shop when you are short staffed, it literally happened to me today I had 2 sick call outs plus 1 person on funeral leave for the weekend plus 1 more who requested the day off and I approved way before the previous 3 situations. my current roster is 15 people plus myself, being down 4 of them of a Saturday hurt pretty bad there was a lot of running around, plus I get a lot of product delivered in on Saturdays that has to be put away in the backrooms.
Changes I would want in Classic Plus:
-add more quests
-add legion graphics (character models, newest spell animations, environment)
-add more class combinations like troll warlock or orc mage
-add world events (even at low levels)
-new quests
-new zones
-new battlegrounds
-add arena
-add the incentive to attack zones from the other faction
-redesign boss mechanics even for low level dungeons
-add more mob abilities in the open world
-make mobs use abilities more smarter (we have AI in 2024 so you should be able to)
-class balancing needs to be on point and every spec should be playable
-spells redesigned (like make pala buffs 30 mins)
SoD feels like Wotlk because 90% of the 'new' skills are copy and pasted from there. I think theres maybe 4 or 5 actually new and creative tunes across the entire game
Runes or tunes or toons?
They did 3 new specs... mage healer and tank lock should become baseline
@@sagacity1071 Shaman tank should def be baseline and a new spec. Its been something me and other shaman players have wanted forever. I remember many years ago ( back when druids got a new 4th spec for gaurdian) that it would be cool to expand and add new specs to existing classes, rather then a new class or race for a new xpac like blizz usually does.
Shaman tank, earth aspect, was my first choice and prob the most popular request by the community. I also thought about other new specs like for the pure dps to all be hybrids.... so like chronomaner mage healer, the meta lock tank, and an evasion dodge rogue tank..... even a hunter that either could be a legit tank with their pet or somehow be a ranged healer, whcih could work but would need some creative spells and redesign.
But Shaman tank.... always made the most sense, esp since they are hybrids already and had plans to have a tank spec in early design. I don't think the mage healer, rogue tank, or lock tank are quite as needed, even if they can work and be fun to play in Sod. Another class that I could see with a 4th spec was monks, based on the red crane/phoneix..... and be some mix of ranged damage and caster. I dunno if it would work thematically or functionally, but I could see a ninja type monk that uses thrown weapons and spells like that crackling jade lighnting or chi blasts, but more like a ranged dps then melee. Maybe even let them use bows/guns so its not just hunters who use those weapons. People have said that the red crane aspect is used for "fistweaver" melee healing mistweavers..... so bit opposite to what I was thinking but still interesting.
@@Rohan_Trishan i dont find the idea of 'a lot more of classes can tank now' appealing. it will take away from class flavour and uniqueness if everyone can do everything.
@ricsouza5011 True, I don't think every class needs a tank or healer pec added to it. Would be an interesting idea, but forced and prob wouldn't work for all classes, plus a you said it takes away from the hybrid roles like tanks already I the game... plus all the new classes they added which usually can tank or heal.
But I still think they should make one exception for shaman tanks... only cause it could work and was an original plan for the class but enhancement became melee support dps instead of tank.
The things that would bring me back to WoW will never happen (P2W removed, Add-Ons banned, new engine with updated graphics) so for now Azeroth will just have to remain a fond memory for me.
no one has actually concretely said what additions they want there to be - raids? where? what would the item level be of the new loot?
would you just make raids and dungeons irrelevant by the third new raid release?
WHERE would you put the things? since a lot of criticism the internet is giving is "DFC is JUST put into a zone" ....
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
DFC quickly became my favorite dungeon. Its tuned for SoD and its not too difficult to go through.
since 1.12 lacks a lot of tier gear coverage and sparse offpiece and trinket and weapon coverage, theres room for 2 if not more raids, each tier, alongside the original.
You can also do it like turtle wow where they are going to t3.5 and t4 as well which i think is bold
The classic community is far and away the biggest obstacle to getting Classic+ made.
yes, the problem with WoW isnt the game its the players
Seeing all the comments about how they (Blizz) would mess up Classic+ or Blizz making too many changes with the classes made me realize: The community is the same of a prob as it is Blizz themselves.
I loved all the class changes in SoD. I even want more. But what I really want is new zones, dungeons, bosses, monaters, quests, raids, PvP options & so on. I don't wanna do daily shit like in retail. I wanna do daily shit because it is fun & not mandatory.
Also this whole fuckin minmaxin bs & you need 1k addons fuckin sucks.
Give us Classic+ with no Timegate lvl cap, no XP boost & just more content. Add achievments & other cool stuff that increases the quality of life & I will be happy.
And pls no more seasonal shit. This is the reason why I (& so many of my friends & guild members) stopped caring for SoD. Because why should I even bother if everything will be gone in the future 😓
I want new races & classes just like some awesome private servers are doing it. Improved graphics (because why the f not?!).
If it's not classic enough, then people should just play classic & not Classic+ or SoD...
Yes! They'd need to put a stop to world buff meta, mages from being able to boost level 50-60's in ZG and Maraudon, and stop the meta with min/maxing everything. Nowadays it's all "everyone HAS to be the same and use XX items for BIS and look the same, act the same, spec the same", there's just no personalisation and character anymore, and that's what we need back in Azeroth.
@@andytaylor1617 community created these, and I hate that people ruined classic for everyone.
Even the casual guilds asking for parses and min maxing...
If they made SOD, they can make classic + unfortunately it's Blizzard, for now they have too many projects to start another one. I think that many people hoped that SOD would be a classic +, where in the old vanilla they would add new dungeons, improve the characters to make them more playable and that's it. Unfortunately, they did something retail-like with SOD with all these new skills. It seems to me that most people, when talking about character balance, said - give the Paladin a Tount or a Druid (bear - area DMG, moonkin - mana regeneration) and not make the warlock a tank or a healer of the mage
I want to play wow pvp that isnt as overcomplex as retail, where i can just log on and can play and not have to farm anything
Is it too late to jump in?
@@bcomorosky1021 i played a while but its so overcomplex. So many abilites, so many buttons so many specs
Blizzard, can we PLEASE add some customization for Boomie? Really sucks working so hard on BiS gear and rare items, and can’t flex like I’d like to lol. I know you can see weapon and off-hand, but we would love to be able to look different.
Honestly, they should really just end the classic expansions at MoP and solely focus on whatever classic + is. Then maybe in the future classic expansions can be released again as "seasonal" experiences with low maintenance
They should have stopped after WotLK, maybe just drop Cata and beyond as "Remix" like they just did for MoP, and they should be keeping static "era" realms for vanilla, TBC, and WotLK as well as cyclical fresh realms for all 3
I wish they would keeps TBC classic or maybe WOTLK classic without some of the later parts that get rid of what makes classic so great.
Would love a Classic+ experience that's designed for the long term. But Blizz would have to confirm in advance that there would never be any progression to any of the expansions, so that we can actually enjoy Classic for what it is, with no need to rush any of the content for fear of missing out on it due to a new expat coming out.
Class balance and some new solo content sounds good to me. It doesn't have to be easy solo content, like you suggested, it can just be reasonably doable by a person who is alright at their class, without help. Part of the Classic community are the ones who enjoy things like solo self-found action sometimes. Thumbs up!
Class balance goes against classic lol
@@Joshboyes1exactly - I don’t know why people are obsessed with balance. Why does every spec have to be viable is every single scenario. Dumb.
@@yayano8415 because warrior, rogue, mage, lock being the only viable raiding specs for dps kinda kills any enjoyment a druid or shaman player may have. Literally just make mama manageable, it's not a lot to ask...
@@Frostgnaw a pure dps class should do more damage than a hybrid. Part of being a hybrid is filling roles that are needed. If a hybrid is out damaging pure dps the pure dps classes lose their luster
@@Joshboyes1 I'm a balance druid main. I loved my niche role in classic, but the hybrid tax should really only apply if you are dipping into talent trees that aren't dps-related. If I go 20 points into the resto tree, yeah, my dps should suffer because of it. But if I go full into balance and still struggle to cast a single spell, that's not exactly fun.
I don't think Dishonorable Kills should be removed entirely, just have them restricted to the person who killed the civilian, not the whole party.
Also need DKs more obviously marked with a special health bar or portrait border in addition to the civilian tag or whatever it is
Season of Discovery actually made me realize I like retail a lot more then I thought I did.
Classic era has a lot of problems that need fixing. Its an unfinished mess of a game.
@@powercheif and it fine now + should or hope to fix it
Classic+ for me is; new race, new zones, BRAND NEW quests and raids and maybe even a new class. Sorta like an alternate TBC expansion but in classic.
Knowing this would never happen and Blizzard would screw up even if they were to attempt it I moved on. I am done with the cycle that is expect new things to be added but have slightly altered versions of already existing features.
Your store analogy sounds exactly like the skeleton crew store I work at.
You work with skeletons? O.o
@@carlgustafemilmannerheim5661 No, just a very small team that needs many, many more staff. I hate retail.
Turtlewow is my classic plus. I've only got a pally to 36 and a hunter in the teens but it feels like vanilla. I've seen a few new quests like a chain about the harvest golems in Westfall from a new npc by the innkeeper in sentinel hill that leads to gnillid in the deadmines and then beyond. Other changes seem sensible, like Paladins train Consecrate at 20 so tankadins don't have to start down the holy tree for AoE threat. You also get a taunt by spending 3 points into an improved seal of justice talent and mana back on blocks with 3 points into shield specialization. What they're not doing is random changes willy nilly like adding QoL stuff from later expansions. As much as it annoys me, mend pet is still a channel and traps require you to be out of combat to lay them. You can still hid the laying animation by doing it at the apex of a jump though, which is pretty sweet. Oh also there are high elves for alliance, human and gnome hunters and horde has goblins so I guess those are pretty big changes.
People need to figure out what the actual difference is between classic + and retail -
SoD and Retail have nothing in common
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
I feel like everyone has diffrent ideas about Classic Plus. And some of them are very polarizing. That's the major problem with the concept - and the reason why Blizzard will recieve some hate no matter what.
Okay so I’m an interesting sample, I’ve played Retail for about 2 years now, I never played classic or vanilla and I have been playing SoD for about a year now. I know SoD is not vanilla but it’s my closest exp to it and imo Retail and Classic SoD are two different games imo. Classic SoD is just this slow paced game and it’s all about leveling like I could give a shit about being 60 rn, I’m currently 40 there’s no campaign guiding me anywhere I’m just picking what zones I wanna level in and I’m fucking walking everywhere lol I mean shit flight paths are goat when you can only walk lol. It’s so fun tho! Gear feels so much more rewarding in classic and if I get something good like a blue I’m holding on to that shit for 10 levels who knows! I think the real difference is:
1. Flying
I think flying mounts changed the game to Retail
2. Leveling Pace
Leveling is fun, challenging, long and you have to be prepared. I can’t pull too many mobs in classic. In retail I feel like a God leveling which can get dull sometimes unless I’m playing PvP. In Classic I’m humbled by the game while leveling.
3. Loot/Gear
Loot and gear just feels more important in classic. It’s obviously important in retail too but there’s so many ways to get gear in retail everyone’s got purps and some purps suck, if you have a purp in classic your fucking pumping. It just feels more rewarding the less accessible it is I guess.
I know most of this stuff prolly seems obvious to some but like I said I’m a noob and a new person playing classic and this is what I’ve come to notice. I swear to god if you take out flying from retail it would make such a difference. Something about walking/mount only in classic makes the game feel so big and makes it feel like an MMO and makes me feel like I’m exploring the world.
@@itswhzly Its actually a accurate opinion. I would add also a few more things like raids are not about mechanics, and are about preparation (taking worldbuffs, having a good setup, consumables). Also gold is waaaay more important than retail, consumables are expensive as hell in classic era/ sod compared to retail, retail consumables are literally free. Also i would add that retail tries to balance classes to have them close to each other in terms of dmg / hps. In classic era/sod there are supporting classes that are dps but its dmg input is shit, but they add good buffs / debuffs / resources.
Another difference from retail is the variety of raids. In retail when the next raid tiers opens, the past one gets obsolete and its useless. In classic era, the items from the first raid, are very good and some are even bis for the rest expansion, so you do all raids compared to retail where you just do 1 raid. Professions are way much more important in classic compared to retail, in terms of gold gathering or advantages in raid as sappers / invulnerability potions / free action potions etc.
Also de pvp system is not based on skill but on grinding and the gear you get from pvp is hiper good even for raiding.
There is much more "roleplay" in classic, due to items and racials like horde, human etc. having inanse passives that you can cover up with other items if you dont choose that good class, like expertise in swords on humans that you cover up with edgemasters gloves as gnome / Nelf.
In general the game is much more complex, more rewarding, you need to put more time on knowledge and less on skill and you need to interact with players to make groups / elite quests / professions / dungeons not as on retail where you just solo elites / insta que rdf on retail. Its actually a mmo, while in retail, you could do the same content but in a format as league of legends just queing your characters into a dungeon / raid / mythic plus / arena / battleground, and you wouldnt really need the "MMO aspect" in order to play the game, while on classic era you do.
Can you imagine the SoD team instead saying "Yeah actually we don't want to hold onto our jobs or anything so this is the end and nothing else will be coming in the future." They're going to do whatever it takes to keep Mommy Blizzard giving them a paycheck.
Vanilla world with tbc talents and spells(without bloodlust/heroism) and new content.
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD, i truly recommend it.
From what I 've seen in SoD, I don't think they actually have the ability to create new assets in this old engine. All they did was migrate it to the retail engines backend...
There isn't a single new enemy that isn't a re-skin, new boss is just existingasset @ 4000% size...nothing. EVERYTHING they have done, is stuff a Server Admin/Game Master can do with the shorthand code that's built in, and a bit of backend stuff, like creating an instance portal, changing and tuning the math/values.
Am I the only one that thinks they actually don't have the ability to create brand new stuff in this current Classic client/engine?
@@chrishernandez1323 turtle is too scuffed
tbc talents in a vaniulla world is what epoch is doing, take a look
@@chrishernandez1323 6 classes full BiS? Sounds like Turtle Wow is just too easy then. No thanks. I dont mind a little bit of a challenge.
Blizzard only knows how to over promise and under deliver. The expectations are always so high that the reality of whatever they release will never catch up. MMORPG’s require imagination, not machination and micro transactions.
Sod is kinda shit. Haven’t even came back for this last phase
Because you are still stuck in p3
Players push 2-4k dps (and even way over 4k) in MC and it is just few IDs in... why should i even come back? BIG Numbers ≠ fun
@@dreamyy4153 Na I raided once in p3 and gave that up too. havent played in months and have no desire too
WOW IS HARD
Thanks Willy, I think you're the voice of true wow classic enjoyers. You aren't just doing negative content for views, your praise the good and give constructive criticism where is needed and you actually play the game. I'd highlight your last phrase "If you don't like change, go to Classic Era"
Do people honestly want classic+, i mean every change made in sod is basically retail- which people don't like.
exactly, people are idiots.
@@Jwilaoupaclassic+ should be vanilla with more content and not just adding retail abbilitys and events.
100% agree with, thats the problem @JenRobKam
@@Falcon-ob7uf absolutely mate.
@@Falcon-ob7uf I'd love it if Classic+ did include class tweaks and new abilities, but restrained on the same mindset of class identity (and shortcomings) of the original Vanilla developers. For example, I'd be very interested in the design space as is for Paladins and their Seal/Auto Attack based gameplay, I would want to see new ideas improving on that and staying true to the original concept. Not give every class the thing they're lacking, nor copy paste abilities from retail.
It'd be something entirely new, in spirit of the old class designs.
All they needed to do is fix specs, add new dungeons and add raids. Not change everything towards retail.
How about new leveling content? Not everyone is a raider.
Legion's profession questlines were some of the best singleplayer content they've ever done, and I've always thought it could be brought back very easily. A profession update in general would be very welcome alongside things like the group finder and other social features.
The interval between playerbase wishes is so large to a point that you really can t please all. They should keep classic+ casual friendly and focus on retail/cata for more die hard fans which play 10h a day
I personally don't want stat ratings and I think new gear in hypothetical post-naxx content shouldn't just be bigger number. There is some stats in vanilla that aren't really used like haste (except on warchief blessing and like 1 enchant) that you can add to gear, you can also downport stats like Expertise which as a side effect will inherently increase warriors/rogues crit cap. A hypothetical Tier 3.5 could have stats with the same budget as naxx gear but focus more on offspecs, like tier 2.5 gear kind of did for most classes while/or incorporating the previously mentioned new stats.
I HEAVILY encourage anyone interested in a classic+ version to check out Turtle WoW.
You don't have to play on it, just check their content on youtube, and you'll see what a real classic+ should look like.
the devs on the classic team are actually awful. They want the game to be like retail
Thats exactly my fear.
After SoD, I have horrible fears that if there WAS a Classic+ it'd be ruined by toxic players.
it’s one thing to lose the hype. its another thing to find the hype, shut it down, and act petty about it 10 years later. fu blizzard
SoD is exactly why many people who really wanted Classic+ were team NO CHANGES.
I doubt those groups intersect as much as you think. SoD was supposed to be experimental. The No ChAnGeS crowd shouldt be a consideration at all on this.
Epic class quests and in-depth professions
People will make guides how to skip most of the stuff , and they will go for min maxing.
No point into making these long quest chains and professions.
@@HealzHS sure. We could all just go read books but we want to play WoW. Who cares if people follow guides. You can use that addon that tells you how to level precisely but most do not use it. That’s not a great reason not to make epic quests with great story and have large scale crafting projects available.
@QurikOfficial but again most of people won't do them and others will be frustrated.
Look in Classic for example. People had hard time finding groups because "I don't have bis in this dungeon so I won't come waste my time" .... "my friends charing for tanking so I should too , 10g to tank this dungeon" and more
People will rush and you are either left behind and have nobody to do these quests or rush ahead and don't do these quests because they take extra time.
You absolutely can make them, just the community will ruin them.
@@HealzHS that’s not happening on Wild Growth. They absolutely will be completed. The warlock has an epic quest for their dreadstead. Do some skip it? Yep. Do most warlocks complete it? Absolutely.
A tremendous amount of players have been working on the tier.5 questline only to begin replacing most pieces two weeks after P4 came out. Epic quests have a lot to offer when implemented correctly.
Maybe LFR is more these people speed of they can’t find a way to get groups. In classic we know that you have to make at least a couple friends to play with.
Having faith in Blizzard is like saying you forgive the guy who robbed you and give him even more money
We don't need Classic+ .... We need WoW 2.0 Fresh start, old feel, new tech.... blow it all up and build it back right.
better optimized engine pls lol
definitely not
I have always thought the OSRS voting system was how Classic+ would go but you bring up a great point about fragmentation. As much as we aren't supposed to talk about "unofficial" servers, I think it's fair to say the hardcore Classic+ crowd want Turtle wow made by blizzard. For those who aren't familiar it fixes the classes that are underperforming and leaves the working classes alone except small percentage changes ie. "warriors work leave them alone, hunters work but don't scale well so add an attack power modifier to more abilities and pets, Ret is awful so maybe they get crusader strike because it makes them work alongside a few percent changes" etc. New content for sure but adding a dozen future spells to every spec was wildly over-reaching what Classic+ ever meant
If classic plus is anything like SoD, dont bother and just let the game die.
SoD was such a big opportunity for changed and the majority of changes have been lacklustre at best
I think the point about Classic+ requiring a bigger team is the most important point. The reason why a lot of the SoD changes felt like something out of a private server is because the SoD team has the same problem as most private servers; all programmers and no artists. They can't make new assets. They just have to find creative ways to re-use existing stuff so it ends up feeling cheap and phoned in. Classic+ needs artists to make new assets in the old art style so they can make new zones and dungeons and whatnot.
They didn't a dedicated team that doesn't have to also manage other projects like cata.
they should just buy turtle wow and hire all their staff and release it as classic+. its win win win situation
nah fk you, dont wanna pay to play game, turtle doesnt charge that.
I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that SoD is a classic+ beta
Please.. just talk about Turtlewow, why, why so many people still support blizzard if they hate them?
exactly lol, plenty of streamers and tubers talk about pservers doing blizz' job correctly,
but some like wille are insanely terrified of daddy blizz
when there is real no reason to be
The thing is, this iteration of Blizzard has no scope of idea, why WoW was great in the first place. It’s a complete alien topic, so the odds for them to pull it off is nearly nonexistent.
They got me with sod but they won't be getting me back ever again. I failed for their bs for way to many years
Cata classic is stale, sod is more retail than classic. all i wanted when we were originally talking about sod or classic+, is NORMAL CLASSIC with more raids, items, SLIGHT community voted changes like ret pally getting buffed to be viable etc, and more loot for niche classes and hybrid specs. Give us Scarlet Monestary Raids, finish original classic ideas that were never fleshed out, maybe add more cities or make bold choices.
This
Most of this was what we wanted, then they came with rogue tanks and mage healers
Get me in Classic+ asap! LOCK ME IN COACH 🔒
SETTLE DOWN
Il never sub to a project they won't even put enough devs on to finish. They are a billion dollar company, not a small indy team.
10 man raiding waiting room
It's tragic that most people seem to call for 40 mans, when 10 mans are simply that much better. 20 mans alright too, above that it's just a zerg with nightmare organisation.
@@einzuwasu5563 yeah 40man is bis. fck retail 10man bullshiet
@@DruidSage-j6h nothing will compare to 2005 ventrillo 40 mans on dial up lol
@@DruidSage-j6himo 25-30 mans are the perfect size which are retail raids.
@@jointser1008 the only acceptable form of retail rading is mythic and thats a 20 man.
Turtle wow is where it’s at. Great class balance. New quests! Good graphics mods. New gear. New professions. Definitely worth playing
Check out turtle wow, after having 6 classes fully bis (completing my second atiesh this monday on era warlock) im playing on turtle wow for the last 2 weeks got a shaman at 45, it has multiples new zones like gilneas, islands around stv, hyjal, emerals islands, etc. some new dungeons and 10 man raids (soon releashing kara 40 man) and im having a blast. Some changes to classes also, but something regular to be able to play it not crazy like SoD (example giving paladin holy strike and crusader strike and mana back on each block // hunter a kinda steady shot like tbc // arcane mage playeable // warrior 2h new ability for pve // spriest mana recover for its group // shaman tanking spec and more), i truly recommend it.
I have a buddy that plays turtle and he says all the same things you are saying. It sounds really cool in theory, but I cannot shake the strangely uncanny feeling of playing on something that is not blizzard official. And it's not for any logical reason, im not scared of the servers going down and losing all my work. It's more like the feeling "mom can we have mcdonalds?" "No. We have mcdonalds at home" kinda feel. I can't really explain it, it just gives me a knockoff brand feeling and it would rob me of a fun experience... I wish I could enjoy it though
@Pablo your logic is holding you back and preventing you from some incredible experiences. Its actually a little cultish.
Classic feel + achievements, ally shaman and horde pala, extended reputations and I'm sold
Season of Discovery is not Classic +. It is retail lite.
go play classic era
2:04 “..but I think It hasn’t met a lot of people’s expectations” this is completely incorrect. The population of SoD speaks for itself.
This is the population growth for SoD P4.
Week 1: 22k
Week 2: 42k
Week 3: 79k
Classic era is still sitting at 17k player base.
you literally asked for "classic plus" and bliz gave us sod. they cannot develop to save their lives and classic plus is gonna be dogshit tbh
yeah,but explaine that to delusional ppl who puts bealives in indian company
The blogging is a VERY important part about the voting process, it allows people to point out what could go right and wrong. This allows the developers the opportunity to fine tune changes or cut/add things based off of community feedback.
The problem is now SoD is that it's seasonal, so it's become a very "fast paced" game. Dailies, increased XP due to its short-lived nature, etc (hence why even a lot of retail players are having some fun in it).
I don't think this is a bad thing, but it certainly isn't a permanent vanilla+ because it feels more like TBC or WOTLK rather than vanilla. It works as a 1 year seasonal server and that's it.
My biggest concern with Classic+ is that they've given us power in SoD that they may take away. I can't imagine paladin tanking without at least analogs to what they've added.
Basic things:
Finish the zones and quest chains.
Improve flight path logic.
Intergrate a quest tracker to reduce addon dependency
I think they’re gonna reveal something on the 20th anniversary… Then when SoD & Cata ends we get something new… we just finished panda remix don’t think they gonna do pandaria again, also splitting classic audiences was a mistake… when sod came up wrath basically ended and then when Cata came up SoD got hit…
Not sure what they’re gonna do, but to get enough interest, it basically needs to be a new game… if it’s just vanilla with a “twist” it won’t last… I personally, have enough of vanilla… last few years I replayed it too many times that if it doesn’t come with some big changes like classes, talents, quests, dungeons, raids and PvP (basically everything) then it doesn’t matter…
I’d be all for classic+ if it was completely revamped graphics using all the original armors and items, add the sod rune system, don’t add new races or classes, revamp the instances with 2 modes. Classic and classic+ with different loot pools and difficulties
Honestly as far as solo content goes I feel like putting in far more class quests would go a long way. They don't have to be pushovers either, they can be along the lines of the hunter bow or benediction.
they already did Classic +, it was called tbc and it was great. Arguably the best version of the game ever. Let's be honest, anything they do now won't feel the same.
I played Wow from the end of Vanilla to the end of Cataclysm, and raided heavily throughout though my favourite time was TBC. I have considered trying to get back into it but there are just far too many expansions I've missed now. I would have loved to have played during Wow Classic release into TBC Classic, but I was preoccupied with life at the time.
I would absolutely sub to and play a Wow Classic+.
THANK YOU!!! we need more creators before a voice for the majority who wants this.
If it means continuously changing the code of era, I'd rather just have a fresh era realm than Classic+
5:39 "it's not financially successful enough"
Well, I try to convince people to use the inflation calculator and understand that $14.99 in 2005 = $24.11 in 2024.
If you want Blizzard to give Classic+ mid-2000s effort, then you have to pay mid-2000s $.
Everyone just has too much of a sense of self-entitlement. They want want want, but they don't want to pay for it.
In short, I don't want Classic+ because no one is willing to pay for a high-quality version of it.
The 2005 equivalent of $9.32 a month for the subscription fee, or less if you take the 6-month deal, is cheap shit. I want high quality WoW, not cheap shit.
I'd rather just have fresh era.
yes, you may always talk about classic+
honestly, thinking about how games can improve is often more fun than to play games, it is one of the most creative processes
We need an overhaul on crafting!
I would also want updated models. There is no reason why you cannot have Classic game play without updating them. I don't need to be reminded that graphics in 2004 basically sucked.
This!!!
For an open beta, SOD was a success. They’re learning. I haven’t played since P2 but C+ will be cool
Absolutely HATED the endgame focus of SoD, and the fast-pace, super gear/ability power creep and retailification of everything and homogenization of classes. Every one of those is completely antithetical to what made vanilla a timeless classic.