@@Deathride-ro5ub im commenting on an Asmongold video... a multifaceted video commentator... I've been a massive Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1 and they've lost me forever. That should worry them.
When I started vanilla my wife played , brother-in-law, father-in-law and mother-in-law all played. My mother and father were terrible at the game mechanics but offered our guild the mats they needed to run the raids. They where given a raid spot and basically were carried but it was the most fun time in the game. After Cata we couldnt carry them anymore and they all left. Now none us us play.
@@dankmemes8254 Sure bro meanwhile people actually enjoy Diablo 4 as a game meanwhile PoE is a spreadsheet game just like retail wow. PoE is a lifestyle game just like retail wow. You think PoE is good because you only play PoE and have 8000 hours in it.
Yeah it’s the whole group of people who can sit there and no life a game 10 hours a day, impossible to keep up with, it’s why I don’t play cod, if you have a 2+ kdr you have to sweat to play agaisnt dudes who have been playing all day
@@Yoros009its both you can’t have one without the other. Streamers no life because they can afford to do so. Both casuals and hardcore players follow what the best say. And THINK they are the best like the streamers but they aren’t but truly believe they are. So they do the same or at least attempt to do so and anything less is considered not as good therefore bad. There isn’t a good okay bad. Its only good or bad in the eyes of any game now. Its all min max now sadly and we have no one to blame but ourselves. It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t a multiplayer game and you need other people to play said game.
The reason I quit playing Classic is because they didn't make separate TBC or WoLK realms; instead, they just kept rolling it into... Cataclysm? That's not even classic WoW.
@@grahamcrappers427 What even is "classic WoW", its subjective if you're not just talking about vanilla. Cata is closer to 'classic' than it is to retail imo. if Wrath (or even TBC) is classic why isn't Cata? Cata just builds on wrath a bit, its not even that different.
I'd argue, the changed world is what sets classic apart from non-classic. You can experience pretty much the same content in retail now, but you can't revisit the world before the cataclysm.
Hardcore players kill every game. They chew up content at lightspeed and loudly complain that there's nothing to do. Keep the casuals happy and you'll have a game that lasts.
Only a few % of the vanilla WoW player base even saw the inside of a raid instance. There were plenty of hardcore players, but the majority were casual.
Vocal minorities like that, and also of course streamers who play 24/7 and earn money on it, and E-Sport players - they all the publishers and even devs hear. And of course they want game to have more publicity, so they listen to them and balance game for them. Though I'm not sure does it really help the game more than help. Cause they get publicity but scare the actual players away, making their experience miserable.
@@stanislavkimov2779 So they make the game look good on stream... you buy it thinking "oh yeah this is something i could get in to.." and then realise you're just whale food 30mins after you log in. Job done. You just got farmed kid
@@Akqueq I mean Asmon doesn't have friends that he progs with and mostly hasnt for years. So why would he recognize this lol.. Want to clear something as Asmon? Get a carry then tell people who are progging it to get gud after.
"over the years classic wow has cultivated a hardcore community." Well, yeah if all the casual players left because they are not experiencing the game, and hardcore players are all that you have left, that's not cultivating...
In a version of the game that requires teamwork, it became about how to trick people in to helping farm gear for a small clique of officers and the GM. It's like... Ok you're autistic and have an anxiety problem. That's great. Didn't ask. But now you've mentioned it, why are you in charge of coordinating 39 other people and managing HR loot council drama in DM's all day? In the end all the guilds collapsed because of some version of this. The "hardcore" players can't play the game with other people.
The biggest problem with WoW is that there are too many versions of it competing for a dwindling player base. When SoD came out there was huge drop off in player pop on my Wrath Classic server. It's happening again with the new retail expansion. Given the huge amount of time players have to commit to accomplish their goals in the game.
@@MsSovereign1214somewhat, it's moreso that the soulsborne community were a bunch asses to him when he was first trying to get into the game, not that the games were bad.
Only reason this mentality exist isn't because of cata it's because 40man raiding I was clearing bwl and aq40 with 31-35 members and 7 of which were all gray parsing debuff cap ruining morons who literally just wouldn't listen we had a priest recruit in aq40 who would use rank 1 swp while healing and randomly dps until they were oom and we suddenly had healing issues vanilla is not only undertuned but it's a 40man raid size think of how many ZG/ZA/Kara runs struggled in vanilla and tbc because of the shear dead weight these players were cata is fairly easy even on heroic most of it is just easy it's not even a skill diff it's just like if you're able to function at an average level cata is still obtainable for you the only prune is people who probably wipe in dungeons/heroics
Wow will never be what it was at launch because… -The game was new. -Playing felt consequential. You needed to form communities and strategically play to accomplish goals. -you would make actual friends from across the real world. You actually connected with people. It wasn’t “oh you aren’t a ten time gladiator and we can’t get top 1% immediately?! I’m outskies!” -It was like an actual world, mentally. -Connectivity through media was almost completely different. WOW’s structure incentivized people to make their own communities. The server itself was a community.
@@williamdrum9899ya to add to yours, WoW was an early form of social media in its own that worked well when your only source of info was to ask others in game about how to accomplish things. The insane amount of info now readily available and how quick it spreads hurts the game at its core unfortunately and it some ways have torn up the biggest aspect of MMOs which was discovering as a community.
@@hydromancer4916 Chatting on IGN all day playing UO, DAoC, and EQ . While in IQ with the entire server you were playing on. Community was intertwined.
Exactly the opposite. Making the game low-iq and generic "click shiny buttons hurry"! Killed WoW. It's always the casuals that destroy something then move onto the next new shiny (probably mobile) game in weeks. Rewarding everyone, for everything for no reason, killed WoW.
people need to understand that what Asmongold refers to as "hard" is essentially mechanics that if ONE player messes up it will wipe the entire raid. Is it actually HARD for an individual who knows the boss, knows mechanics, knows timers, knows when to use cooldowns? no. It is HARD to find a group of 20 people who also know it. Hard in this sense is more of it is TOO PUNISHING and is not fun. it is NOT FUN to get good in a game where one bad player can ruin your gameplay, heck, not even 1 bad player, just 1 bad play by someone you have no control over. Look at classic raids, 40man raid where you only need like 10 people who know what they are doing, 10 people who have ok game knowledge, and 20 cold bodies that can somewhat DPS
It's the everquest 2 design all over again, make ultra-punishing content for the top 1% of players, then after years the game dies out because all these mechanics will never be seen by the average player
there's very very very few mechanic that wipe raid outside of mythic raid... and even on mythic raid, it's only on the last 2-3 bosses. Normal-mode tyndral has been solo'd by a hunter. how is this hard for a 10 man group to do?
That should be at each devs workspace and meeting rooms. I saw a comment that said a guy and like a half dozen of his family played when the game was designed that way. Like the bads at mechanics would farm the raid mats needed and would get carried in return. They couldn't keep carrying The design became the meme "Git gud" Personally if I want retail difficulty I'm playing an rts When design changed a few nopd out Now none of them play. I'll throw in with that crowd.
@@vincenthamel3420 Since mythic raid gives the highest reward, it is the only raid that matters. You don't go into a raid with the intention of stopping at 9/12 bosses because the next 3 have wipe mechanics, therefore, by the definition I have provided, that raid is too hard. If your argument is that they can just do Heroic raid, it doesn't offer the best gear, then we can just go ahead and say that they should just do M+ instead of raid or LFR if they want the "raid experience" since they clearly don't care about the ilvl. The point is that raids are too hard and the only ones doing them are the top players, mythic raids are like top 1%, heroic raids are top 10%, and normal raids were at like 40% of players do them. Why do they create GEAR PROGRESSION content for vast minority of players? It's just weird game design and waste of resources tbh. I am not against having mythic raids, but because it is the highest ilvl, it needs to be achievable for majority of players, if it was pure cosmetic it would have less problems. Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of classic raids either, 40man is just stupid, but it shows how easy they are if u r able to get 40 players with an accumulative IQ of 1 human genius and still beat it
What made me dip out of WoW were a few important things: - Server Community: when the game launched, you had the people on your server to play with. That was it. And you knew them. You knew Drom the undead rogue liked to hang around EPL for some reason, and that he struggled against frost mages. You knew Ishtawind, the paladin who just had no idea how to play at all. You knew that if you partied with Tyna the gnome priest you'd have a good time because he would always be in a great mood. You knew that horde guild that always raided Wednesdays at four, so if you wanted to cause hell you knew where they would be traveling through. Which leads to my next thing: - You had to do the thing. You had to travel to places to do things. You saw people out and about. This gave me at least a larger sense of investment in the activity, and made the game overall more enjoyable. The game wasn't just the dungeon, it was all of the context around it as well, including getting there. - Flying/wpvp changes On a pvp server, introducing a method to ignore world pvp altogether by just flying, really wasn't it. It isn't that you'd have to want to engage with world pvp. But you had to factor it in. If you wanted to farm something, you had a few choices: Farm in farming gear, and be more at risk but efficient. Farm in pvp gear and be a little slower but safer. Be in a group farming situation; safety in numbers. It gave the traveling and general going about a flair of adventure and cost and excitement. Which went with flying mounts firstly, and eventually since people just don't have to go places to do things. Of course I see the benefits to all these changes, I just feel like I personally as a player lost too much in the trade. I think I kept playing on and off for a few expansions. I think I left for "good" after Naxxramas, but I may be misremembering. It's been a while.
Classic TBC and WotLK was just not a "Classic" experience due to ingame Shops and pretty much 80% of players just chasing the meta. Had no one to play with, since all my mates and everyone on the realm just wanted to 100% ASAP instead of just playing and having fun.
Maybe I’m looking at it with nostalgia glasses, but I feel like meta and theorycrafting was a lot more fun back then (2000s) too. Now I’m seeing a lot of games meta turning into spreadsheets and math.
As a former mage I'd have to agree that people chased meta but they were really, really dumb back then. Maybe they still are. I don't know, WOtLK changed the game too much and I quit. Classic felt about the same as TBC but Blizzard going full China made me quit that. In TBC most mages spec'ed fire even though it was suboptimal for straight up damage up to 1200 spell damage or so, after the fix on the burn stacking. Frost being better not only at straight up damage but it also took less time to load so you were more mobile, consumed less mana and did less aggro. Frost also also had way more survivability. The math was eventually done to prove it but too late to change anything. My guild never made it past T5 content but at least the mages weren't at fault after I told them to fix their stuff and their DPS went up by 30% a piece. Mainly the super casual healers were. There is such a thing as too casual blocking the progress for the rest for months and months and it's no fun.
Ya its like the LFG groups that wanna B-line to the end boss and get out for their valor cap right now in Cata it almost a cardinal sin to most players now to pull a couple packs that take 20 sec to kill when you can spend 15 sec jumping on a wall to run around them.
Too many players ignored that WoW was supposed to be an RPG, especially in Wrath. And the biggest offender of this is the man now in charge of the game, Ion Hazzikostas. He's 100% "that guy".
I've been saying this for years, but this actually started at the end of Vanilla, you just didn't notice it. Both AQ and Naxx catered to Ion and the other small number of top guilds. People forget how many casual guilds just stopped playing not long after AQ was released. Ion is the one who destroyed the original game and he's still there because management is too stupid to understand that nobody should have listened to him in the first place.
@@esad15 WoW has been the no.1 MMO for 20 years, only briefly contested by FF during the shadowland period. if that's Ion doing, the guy need a raise...
@@vincenthamel3420 I must be living in a parallel reality then, because for the past 5 years the game has barely managed to stay relevant to be even mentioned in top MMO lists.
I think what destroyed wow was expansions. In og Vanilla, before we knew about TBC, we did not know there was an end to those first raids. We didn’t think we were in a rush. As time went by we always knew new raids and expansions would be released. This pushed the playerbase to get more and more hardcore. I don’t want to HAVE to spend hours for world buffs and consumables to raid. I want raids to be accessible.
@@sensaiko Eh... expansions did destroy the game. Think about it. Every expansion that was released, the game got worse. Every expansion made previous content worthless.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm actually really enjoying cata classic! I didn't get to play it back in the day, so it's brand new to me. It feels like the sweet spot between classic and retail. Old enough to be nostalgic, but new enough to have good quality of life. The raids are hard, but not too hard. My guild is 8/13 on heroic.
All we wanted was classic plus, not some seasonal bullsh@#. We don't want runes we just want new classic content, areas and dungeons that didn't get finished and became old-school lore of what could of been.
@@yoslo6832its literally this simple yet this community refuses to believe it. The devs have gotten their proof and it's very likely we'll see an actual form of classic+ in the near future. Its been a massive success despite the player drop-off.
Wrath is end of Classic Era. Cata, Mop, and WoD should be regarded as a Systems Era, where they experimented by adding non-wintergreen systems. Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands are the "Borrowed Power" era. Artifact, Azerite, and Anima Power.
While I agree with the categories in hindsight, Legion only became "Borrowed Power" after the fact. Of course integrating Artifacts into future design would have been a challenge, but during Legion itself there was no reason to assume that it was "borrowed power", since taking it away wasn't on the table yet.
Cata also changed the base game zones at that point as well so it's a good marker to end the Classic Era on as well. The Classic era was pretty much just adding onto what was previously there with only class changes being the major thing that really changed.
I quit Classic because of blizzard idiots managing it and transforming it into retail. Mounts for sale, wow token, all sort of paid services including boost? It was a massive slap in the face of classic players, insulting. Modern blizzard is not capable to have a classic mindset allowing them to support game like that.
Blizzard looked at Old-School Runescape's success and assumed that it was successful due to nostalgia, so they launched WoW Classic and ran it into the ground because of this incorrect assumption. People don't play OSRS because of nostalgia. They play it because of familiarity and because it's a vastly superior game to Runescape 3. Blizzard should have done 100% original updates and expansions for Classic and had everything be community-voted. The game would have thrived. Instead, they just let it sit stagnant, and re-released old expansions for it, continuing to assume that nostalgia would keep people around. The sad thing is, I bet Blizzard is completely confused as to why OSRS is thriving but WoW Classic is basically dead. They just don't understand.
*Wrath* - is the worst xpac for many reasons. Remove *Ulduar & Citadel* and what you got? Aside from Story - What are you left with? *Wrath* - brought the casual audience in. But failed to continue the (Noob friendly) enviroment.
@@australienski6687 Except it was when the peak player count was, so clearly it appealed to significantly more of everyone than any expansion before or since.
Surprisingly... I DID enjoy Cata when it first came out... And planned to play the Classic Relaunch with one of my best mates... But... Yeah! For some reason, when the launch came, we just didn't bother! Cata is a VERY controversial expansion! Some claim that it was Wrath when Vanilla starting turning into Retail.... But Cata most definitely took that process into hyperspace! And marks a clear division between the two. And I would agree... Cata does lie on the other side of that division!
You're absolutely right! I started wow in cata, and I think that is why I can't get into classic. I know that sounds weird, but my soul is in retail because I am used to the cata level and landscape. I did find it cool to see classic wow and experience it, I think stormwind needs the park back. But I also like things that are quality of life enhancements on the retail side. If they could find a way to combine the two on a classic plus, that doesn't just add off class specs ( Like healing arcane mages per example ) Which was fun no doubt however not sustaining enough for me to want to give my life to it. That would be sweet.
@@nuggyfresh6430 no, they've just crossed the minimum skill threshold and think it's an achievement. No one who says "get good" would be anywhere near the top 40% in any competitive game.
Literally ALL they need to do is have 1 server that goes classic/tbc/wotlk on rotation. Get rid of everything else that isnt retail. I guarantee it will be the most popular mode.
My guild was still progressing on Sunwell when WotLK classic launched, we all thought there was going to be dedicated TBC servers, but nope, all of our toons got xfered over to WotLK, no warning, no option, no blue post before hand explaining how everything will play out. My whole guild quit because we thought, whats the point? lol, We all do play SoD now though
thing is, an MMO player base is made mostly of casuals, the whole genre caters to casual gamers who just wanna hangout and chill. the moment they started making the game for the "elitists" is when they started isolating the majority of the player base, and it started actually in wrath but was blown out of proportion in CATA.
@@rizzk02 You know that was just a guild name right? Not to be taken seriously...they were constantly helping the less skilled with instructional videos on raids. You'd know that if you ever attempted to raid. But like everyone who thinks the game is made for hardcore players only, you never tried.
So you don't like Vanilla, SOD, Cata, or Retail. If NONE of those options appeal to you then WoW just isn't for you anymore, and nothing will change that.
I started WoW in Classic, quit at reaching level 80 in wotlk because it felt like a worse version of retail not a better version of classic. played a bit of retail during shadowlands.
I lost my passion for the game in Cata. I didn't quit until the end of Cata. It just wasn't the same game anymore. I hated how they changed the skill trees and dumbed everything down. I also hated how max level players spent 95% of their time just dueling in front of Orgrimmar and queueing for battlegrounds. There was no world pvp anymore.
so the expac who is commonly referred to as a huge difficulty bump compared to everything that came before.... is dumbed down. and world PVP dying, which happened basically the instant battleground came out in classic, is also blamed on cataclysm, something that came 7 years later. yeah that make total sense.
@@vincenthamel3420 I remember Tarren Mills was a world pvp hotspot in WotLK. But the map changes in Cata (I can't remember exactly what they did) totally shut it down.
@@tacocruiser4238 no. it wasn't. world PVP died the instant battleground came out and never, ever recovered. Simply because the zerg V zerg with no objective get boring, camping flight path is boring, ganking people 5 lvl below you get boring. you remember wrong. Heck, why would you even believe any reasonable amount of max level char would go back to the old world in WOTLK is beyond me
Saying cata dumbed everything down is wild. In terms of raiding, it's FAR more difficult than vanilla or tbc, and a step up from wrath too. Example: as a warlock, I was spamming shadowbolt throughout all of vanilla and tbc. Bosses had maybe 1 or 2 notable mechanics for dps players. It was literally braindead, some of the vanilla/tbc raids the trash was harder than the bosses. Now look up the demo warlock rotation in cata. And the bosses are much more complex and there's much more personal responsibility in every encounter.
talent tree was fine lol, nothing wrong with it or different from wrath….. literally no difference. just more people play into the meta. its life. everyone goes online and looks for the meta
Dang, such a rough time for Classic! I knew when it got to cata it'd fall off. However, the idea of taking base classic and just adding new zones/raids (NOT new abilities, and new rolls for classic like SoD) is the only thing that will make people "return to classic" a Classic+ And I think blizz basically just confirmed that.
Won’t happen. Creating new zones and dungeons requires money and time. They are going to just keep re-releasing old content because it’s basically free.
Yeah no. Youve all paid them for re-releasing OLD CONTENT thats not as fun or QoL-fixing as new content. If dummies buy something twice, whats the point in creating and innovating? Just take the fool-money, and they did. Its player's fault, not the comany this time.
@@joethestrat Blizzard sees where all their players are and what other game/version of wow they are playing(including private servers that make wow a sandbox game, or have created their own version of classic plus). They know they want classic plus. They know NO ONE wants classic MoP. They definitely WILL be doing something like a full classic plus, within a year. Guarantee. They will not ignore the amount of money sitting on the table
@Voltagio57 Of course they will, because it's easy to re-use assets for fools to pay for it twice. I'd do it too if my playerbase were dumb enough to fork tons of money over for something I already sold them.
@@iiChadd Your content only gets 18 views. I like MetaGoblin's vids. He probably made them ban GDKP on sod after revealing how bad it is. What have you done for the community?
@@coachdubz7533 they ban gdkp to stop bots from selling gold and people buying he did absolute nothing for that he isn’t even a WoW partner? He sells literally dog shit guides that does the exact thing he complains about and only post negative content on wow because algo pushes negativity and people engage with it more. Which is why none of those people are even in the WoW partnership program they do absolutely nothing for the game. My video is for my friends to watch normal people don’t seek attention from randoms my guy.
What if raid design philosophy was based around making a big exciting and very fun experience versus making something very challenging and exclusive to the elite few who have no real lives outside of mythic raiding?
You can do the exact same raid as mythic raiders barring a few mechanics on normal/heroic where 90 year olds and literally blind people irl play. You realize you don't have to do the most difficult content if you're gonna complain about difficulty lol
Make the design around both. Why is Elden Ring so much fun? A lot of bosses are very difficult if not utilizing all the tools handed to you, they are extremely flashy, and (the most important part imo) they can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours to beat depending on playthrough. The problem WoW has especially in raiding is the mobs. If you aggro mobs, then you have to kill them if you don't want to wipe or waste resources. A raid can take a couple of hours to 6+ hours depending on how the team takes care of the mobs.
I am one of those new players to WoW classic. I'm on the SoD server, I started on retail in 2017 and was so lost as a new player since theres so much going on. I found that, while playing on classic, then to SoD, that its my preferred gameplay. I haven't played cata, but if something is too hard, can bet I'm not going to stick my neck out to try and clear it. I'm not a hard core player, probably never will be. I'm learning about the lore while I play classic SOD as the zones haven't been altered like they are in cata and retail. So that's its appeal to me.
I will never understand why so many of his audience fight him on every wow take.. he was literally one of the 0.01% super sweats he knows what he's talking about
His viewers think that because he barely plays nowadays, his many years of experience suddenly mean nothing. "I'm currently playing retail so I know better than the guy who has seen WoW's strategies for 20 years".
@@apensalesman The only take of his that I completely disagree with is his claim that Retail is harder for new players to understand and get into. It's objectively easier to get into and understand now that it ever has been.
@@guska5523 Mythic+ is more difficult than any classic dungeon for a new player, raids are much more difficult, classes are much more difficult, literally everything is more difficult. Not to mention the fact that in the classics you didn’t have to keep track of everything, now you have to level up the Persian, then level up the new Adon mechanics, then grind activities in different locations of different patches, there’s too much content for a person who just came to WoW
@@alexbg9287 new players aren't doing Mythic+ content. New players aren't likely to be doing raids outside of LFR. There's no previous expansion content that needs to be done in order to catch up, and the rest doesn't matter until you're trying to do that Mthic+ content, at which point, you're not a new player any more. The actual new player experience (I'm talking first few week-month here) is SO much more streamlined and simple than anything from Classic. To claim otherwise simply highlights the fact that you're not a new player, which, in turn, means that your opinion of the new player experience is utterly worthless.
@@guska5523 Retail is streamlined in so far as it offers a very effective path to the level cap, but it is far less simple. You end up getting bombarded with a flood of skills and systems very suddenly after a leveling process that is far too condensed. For an actual new player, even simple raiding like LFR is a vicious spike in difficulty when compared to the leveling process unless the new player is a seasoned gamer. This is because the leveling in retail is completed too quickly and with too little challenge. Wow classic has a far more gradual skill curve and lower skill ceiling. Players are drip fed t skills over a long period of time allowing them to embed them and become competent in using the broader skill set of their class. The level of threat that the world throws at a new player during the leveling process is also far more well tailored, as fighting solo mobs is simple, while fighting packs is moderately challenging and requires a modicum of learning. But honestly the extremely obvious entropy of retail compared to classic makes it clear that classic is far more new player friendly. If you can't see that then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.
People want hard but not complex. People want to easily pick up the game, understand the game but also have a bit of a challenge. Whereas retail wow is complex where there is 50 buttons u got to smash, 50 aoe things you got to hit and many different rotations and mathematical equations you got to figure out to do a raid and you got to either do this with 5 other people or in a raid group.
I don't remember if it was the store mounts, the squelching of the emotes because of the reaction to the store mounts, the P2W level boosts, or the "Body Type 1" and "Body Type 2" fiasco, but it was one of those.
The Season of Discovery started out so well, but then they gave everyone a 100% experience boost, which completely destroyed the main point of classic WoW: the world. The horrible balance and super sweaty new raids didn't help either. In a sense, they quickly turned it into another version of retail WoW that no one likes... Unreal. I knew it was too much to ask from the current dev team to "improve" on the classic, and I was right.
No one wanted Cata Classic. SoD is a test playground for Classic+, they tested what works and what does not work. That's clear of what they did in phase 3 didn't work and they lost momentum with Cata to develop phase 4 further. Hope they stop Classic at Cata and focus on Classic+ development.
They'll probably do Mists given how popular it is. Would do better than Cata at least but maybe the remix version on retail is a sign they won't bother?
I played Classic for about a week. First WOW ever. Takes FOREVER to find a Group. I'd spend about an hour before i find a group that does it once and quits. So i go back to quest leveling to get to higher lvl dungeon hoping there will be more people grouping and spend about an hour spamming until i settle for helping a group at an underlevel dungeon. Then go back to quest leveling to a Dungeon No one is grouping for. You cant even play the game unless your lvl 55-60.
The endgame in WOW was never the raids. Think about it...Why get the best gear if you don't use it... And what you use it on ? The end game of having it...Addiction is not doing, but having...
You see this with the raid locusts in the pserver scene as well. They don't want to play the game, they want to chase a feeling they used to get, and you see it constantly when they start demanding all the shortcuts to get immediately into "endgame". And then they kill the server when they get exactly what they asked for.
Games need goal, achievement, idea of Victory. MMOs are tricky in this regard, as getting to the finish line should be close to impossible, yet you should always have carrot to chase and bite on. You need to want, get, want more. Slowly enough so there is still something left, fast enough so you don't feel stuck
Many, if not most, people playing video games are some form of a completionist, so every gear drop that is not BiS is an irritation even when an upgrade. So everyone is rushing towards endgame and latest raid.
I remember back when WoW first released, if it wasn't your first MMO, you considered it the easy MMO. Classic was never hard, and WoW shouldn't be hard, it's better as a casual game.
@Mathus1 this simply doesn't make sense. Wow got it's fame when people thought raiding was hard and inaccessible. The first time they started adding changes to make the entire game more casual is when it stopped growing. (Wotlk) If you want to say mythic raids are too hard sure fine but to say the entire game is catered around the 1% is laughably inaccurate and shows that you only think of raiding as content which surprising is the only content in the game with any difficulty. The real problem is everything is so EASY and accessible except top difficulty raids that the entire game is BORING to do. Old dungeons were more fun than the linear "gogogo" designed modern dungeons. In MOP I once got 5 levels in the span of 1 min with the exp potion, can only imagine how quick it is now (have not played since wod) that's boring. New players do not want to jump into max level and raids they want to play a game but the whole game is too EASY. They don't even try raids before quitting... The "retail raids too hard" is a gross oversimplification of the problems in Wow. Again the game was most popular when raids were seen as inaccessible and the players dropped the more it became. Dungeons, leveling and quests need more love and to not just be afk are zerg fests
@@ftur.4139 what is not fun? sub-mythic difficulties? You can't complain about mythic difficulty being tuned for the 1% and also say that non-mythic is boring. pick one or the other. you cant have both.
I can tell why i quitted without even watching video first. I quitted because of Cataclysm. It is not classic wow anymore. Neither is classic era. All i wanted was TBC server.
Release classic with no changes and keep it that way. No tbc or wrath. Classic forever. I want every class in full T3. Give me time to accomplish that.
@@mikeoxlong3676 You had enough time to acomplish the T3 during classic in 2020, if u didnt do it, was becasue u eventually got bored of it and only hoped on again in TBC or WOTLK like everyone else. why are u asking for it again if u bored of it the 1st time whats the diference now? the trilogy is what classic should be and we could repeat it every so often, but it had to be the only classic at one time, no SOD, no hardcore, no cata/mop classic, every player wanting to play classic had to play that or nothign else, otherwise the comunity is too split for the MMO aspect survive.
This is exactly what Jimmy was talking about with OSRS. It's not the nostalgia keeping OSRS player count rising, it's the new content and QoL updates. From what I know of WoW they didn't add anything new.
Our quite large friends and family circle quit Classic because we wanted a Classic 2.0 and we got Cata, hardcore, SOD, retail accompanied by an abundance of gdkp runs and bots... duck you blizzard and duck ALL of your supporters. You deserve each other 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The thing that makes a good MMO is a thriving community that can thrive without alienation. The game needs to be appealing enough for casuals to get into it, stay into it, and want to achieve the skill ceiling. While also having stuff for hardcore players, but as the bald man said, its a lot easier for those players to make their own challenge, than to alienate others by raising it so high, the casual playerbase won't ever want to try to achieve or get there. Sadly those who just want nothing but difficulty because they're hardcore tend to only stay in their little statics/guilds Ignoring and contradicting the idea of a MMO being a whole world and community to take part in. But even if you help, and the games to difficult for any casual to want to even try, the entire thing ends up fruitless. So to anyone in any MMO who is hardcore who teaches, helps noobs/casuals, has patience and looks to make the games playerbase healthy, my hat goes off to you
They have 100% been listening to feedback from the wrong players. There is an interview with Kevin Jordan where he outlines why basing design decisions off of hardcore players' feedback for an MMORPG is a terrible idea. I agree.
Cata is when solo wow became casual and raid wow became hardcore. Solo play became dull and mindless. Raid play for semi-casual guilds made of 10 or so real life friends + people accumulated over the previous expansions became unable to progress in the raids because they didn't have enough hardcore players to do so. Raid play for a collection of randos joining a guild on mass was unplayable. This isn't classic WoW.
I didnt quit classic. I just play Turtle WoW. Best iteration of wow thats available. With unreal 5 coming in 2025, android play, steam deck. How could you not be playing TWoW if you love classic.
Yeah, TWoW has been active since 2019. Haters are gonna hate, but it's a testament to Blizzard's failure with classic. If you played on the server you know what I'm talking about. Is it absolutely perfect? No. But at the end of the day it's far better than retail, and everyone knows it.
@@Psysso😂 Blizzard is a copycat, war craft is no longer war craft and it hasn't been for at least 10 years. It's just a bunch of lsrs who hijacked a game and added their own fan fiction at this point which is the real reason it stopped growing in popularity. It's not good because the og sold out long ago
The crazy thing about the first tier of cata raids, they were even harder on release. This is after they were nerfed 2 times. Once like a month after release and another with a later patch that normalized heroic damage. Ppl still struggle with some of the fights. I remember people just couldnt do certain heroic dungeons at first it was just too much for them. Blizz course corrected hard with dragonsoul and left everyone with that raid for like a year which seriously impacted sub numbers. Then they announced pandas which, while it is a beloved expansion by a lot of newer players it was one of the expansions that caused a lot of the older players to finally drop the game for a while. A ton of people who started in vanilla quit in either cata or mop and came back a bit in leigon. They never really understood the wow version 1.0 design philosophy after cata, it just became more and more slanted towards the top 10% of players and then mythic came out and it just got even worse. Its why a ton of people just want a classic reset at vanilla, or a classic plus server with more dialed back changes.
“We want old content, we want hard raids, we want you to be forced to interact with people and spend hours in the game building up guilds and set groups, stop making the game based around casuals!” ‘Raiding is too hard now, it’s not casual friendly, I don’t wanna have to actually form a raid group instead of pugging!!!’ Never hire gamers because even they don’t know what they want lmfao
The first one is like seven people, and the second one is like hundreds. Don't hire or listen to gamers who fall into the first one because they're a statistically irrelevant minority.
As I always said, a classic version of Cata doesn't make any sense, it's the version that completely destroyed the social aspect of WoW and made it go in decline. Making a classic version and expecting different results only shows how out of touch Blizzard is.
everyone was laughing and picking on the no changes crowd because they liked the changes, now everyone complains about changes because they no longer like the changes, the irony
They choose terrible changes... Changes aren't the issue, the most wanted was extra zones, dungeons, and potentially gear that is on the same level as the top gear in classic as alternatives only. This way you keep the fun same experience as classic wow, but have more fresh content to experience... Instead we get SOD which is just.............
what the other guy said , they choose terrible changes , if they just implement like sub class boomie , arc mage , spriest , ret paladin mechanics with vanilla settings + maybe some new maps its will just be better , and please just stay away from the gdkps , ppl dont understand the balance of it is the one making the game alive
@@itsror666 this is kinda the problem with changes, people like you want to say this is good and that is bad, and so does every single other person with a different opinion. it turns into a jumble of good and bad changes, so the no changes policy prevents any possibility of nonsense
Asmon: "its not hard?!? are you stupid?".... well thats precisely why those people DONT find it hard.. cause they ARENT stupid... The hardest part of raiding in wow is finding 20-25 competent people to do the raids...
People can't be bothered to rub 2 braincells together to move out of something. Hence DBM & GTFO was created. Classic andies would stand in shit just to get a higher parse instead of adjusting for mechanics. Not even joking, when trying to do Mythic Gnarlroot in S3, we had a holy pally only heal when he needed to just go grow his parsing instead of just constant healing to help others.
I've honestly had so much fun progging cata raid every week. Are the bosses hard? Well they can be if you don't do certain things right. But they are possible. And it's fun strategizing and figuring things out.
I quit WoW Classic Era after spending 1.5 months of my holidays grinding in an internet café to finally reach Rank 14, which cost me €500. On Sunday, June 9th, 2024 which was my birthday, after capping my honor to be Rank 14 on reset, I got a permanent ban 5 minutes after logging out. The feeling was indescribable, like they did it on purpose. When I appealed the ban, all I received were automatic replies. That’s when I decided to say f*ck you, Blizzard. 12 Year old account, and a lot of efford and emotions just gone.
@@saucesecrete Devastating my heart. It was my birthday and it was such a special day when i hit my 420k honor for the last time before rank14. I couldnt blv it, i just freeze and was depressed for weeks man. And iam still depressed.
@@saucesecrete sometimes when i scroll on youtube shorts, and i see rogues making content, i skip it immediately and almost everytime it makes me remember how much fun i had with my rogue, and fall in tears. Maybe you dont understand, but i love this game. I played it with my father when i was a kid. And my dream was always one day to be a High Warlord...
When did WoW start catering to the top 1%? Back when I quit in 2010, they weren't catering to the top 1% or even top 10%. They had been making changes to cater to more casual players and nerfing the game in general since 2008. By 2010 it seemed like their goal was to be able to have a random group of players get together on a whim and be somewhat successful at endgame raids. Did WoW change course on this sometime since 2010?
It changed with the release of WOTLK in 2009 when they started making the game more casual accessable. Prior to that, the hardest raids were really only cleared by the top 1-2% of hardcore raiders, and that was what so many of us loved.
People quit Classic because it was played out like every MMO does lol.... you'll still have people that stuck around of course, just look at servers like Mankrik on Cata. But, the majority that just play because it's the big thing at the time will leave. It happens with literally every game, let alone every MMORPG
Biggest WoW problem has been its player-base. Most of them haven't played other online games since vanilla and are unable to see that Blizzard has literaly scammed them in so many ways years after years. That's almost stockholm syndrom.
@veppy4952 There is an argument to be had for a single server to be left up for each version. They are already running 5(?) different versions of WoW right now.
@@Chopstorm. if it is profitable blizzard will do it, they either don't think the demand is there or they haven't figured out how to monetize it, or both.
Economy dies, everyone gets geared up, new players can't find dungeons and low level pvp, leveling is a boring grind fest alone, professions are useless because auction house is bloated with every mat and recipe
For me back in 2005/2006 or whenever AQ and then Naxx came out, I quit raiding and just did casual pvp and some gold farming. Those raids were extremely hard and time consuming. And also I was 16 years old 😊 Too hard = bad
The end of cata was when I stepped away, I was playing from release of vanilla, never returned and don't see any reason to return the game looks terrible now.
The Downfall of WoW in general directly correlates with the dumbifying of the Night Elf Lore that is nothing but a weird mess today. Bring back tall, sweaty amazonian women that are ANGRY because their MEN are SLEEPING all DAY, while they're left to DEFEND the fucking WORLD from evil.
WoW is now part of Microsoft, has more versions for different players than ever before, and has a mobile game and spin offs. The game probably has 5x the developers team than in 2008. The game has never been better, it's the perception of the game being for sweaty gamers that had changed.
Unfortunately that was true only for the Orc campaign of W3. Even by the NF campaign is was just Tyrande being psycho and short sighted and Malfurion saving everyone.
I used to play a Blizzard game almost every day or every other day for over 10-15 years. Between WoW, Starcraft, Overwatch, and Hearthstone... They've lost their edge in their quest to appease shareholders. It's not really a gaming company anymore. It's a business that is constantly looking for ways to increase profitability.
I officially quit all forms of WoW once I saw early access for the new Xpac only for the elite package. It's so shamless that it now obvious they are attempting to just milk out the game for the rest of its juice untill they officially close down. Lost the little respect I still had for the game after that.
I’m a classic Andy and I think the way they are doing difficulty levels is totally fine and it is not hard to deal with even for classic Andy’s. On heat 3 molten core it’s pretty much just as easy as heat 1 once you get the gear
Elden Ring also encapsulates the idea that hardcore players will make the game harder on their own: "Can't use mimic!" "Can't use summons!" "Can't gather Scadu Fragments!"
Making different difficulty tiers in raids was more than enough to give a larger range of player to complete endgame raids. During WotLK they started designing the game to completed by any random group with minimal prep. That was the beginning of the end.
There can never be another classic experience of anything to improve it because most players of classic don't want improvement Or at the very least will never be able to agree as a community what improvement can be made.
One thing I felt was good about SOD was the faction gatekeeping and no transfers. This kept the world PVP in balance. If they bring classic wow vanilla back this would be the one feature I would add. Also maybe a hardstop at level 30 or 40 for the first 4 weeks or some period of time.
We finish all the T11 in about 2.5 hours if we don't mess with heroics. The jump in difficulty between normals and heroics is extreme, so, while I expect most guilds that were successful in ICC can progress normals, Heroics require strong players in all 10 or 25 spots
I didnt quit classic WoW... I quit Blizzard completely...
I loathe having to use the bnet launcher for SC and DII remakes... The only games worth playing on bnet IMO.
thats why u are here commenting on Blizzard game right?
I still play HotS lol
@@patrickt6227 Chad, me2
@@Deathride-ro5ub im commenting on an Asmongold video... a multifaceted video commentator...
I've been a massive Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1 and they've lost me forever. That should worry them.
When I started vanilla my wife played , brother-in-law, father-in-law and mother-in-law all played. My mother and father were terrible at the game mechanics but offered our guild the mats they needed to run the raids. They where given a raid spot and basically were carried but it was the most fun time in the game. After Cata we couldnt carry them anymore and they all left. Now none us us play.
@Joseph11441 it’s called a rope. You should invest in one.
Based comment. Diablo 4 will surely go the route of PoE as well.
@@Djuntas nah poe is 10 times fun and poe2 will be even better than both
How can you be terrible at mechanics when an add on literally tells you exactly what to do.
@@dankmemes8254 Sure bro meanwhile people actually enjoy Diablo 4 as a game meanwhile PoE is a spreadsheet game just like retail wow. PoE is a lifestyle game just like retail wow. You think PoE is good because you only play PoE and have 8000 hours in it.
Streamers making everything a E-Sport is ruining gaming.
It's not only streamers. Everyone is min-maxing everything, so boring.
Yeah it’s the whole group of people who can sit there and no life a game 10 hours a day, impossible to keep up with, it’s why I don’t play cod, if you have a 2+ kdr you have to sweat to play agaisnt dudes who have been playing all day
Sweaty Streamers to be specific.
Well peopple watch.
@@Yoros009its both you can’t have one without the other.
Streamers no life because they can afford to do so.
Both casuals and hardcore players follow what the best say. And THINK they are the best like the streamers but they aren’t but truly believe they are.
So they do the same or at least attempt to do so and anything less is considered not as good therefore bad. There isn’t a good okay bad. Its only good or bad in the eyes of any game now.
Its all min max now sadly and we have no one to blame but ourselves.
It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t a multiplayer game and you need other people to play said game.
The reason I quit playing Classic is because they didn't make separate TBC or WoLK realms; instead, they just kept rolling it into... Cataclysm? That's not even classic WoW.
Lmao don't be naive. It's def classic
@@anthonyrupe8516 no it isn't
@@grahamcrappers427 What even is "classic WoW", its subjective if you're not just talking about vanilla. Cata is closer to 'classic' than it is to retail imo. if Wrath (or even TBC) is classic why isn't Cata? Cata just builds on wrath a bit, its not even that different.
@@anthonyrupe8516 It is "wow retail classic" not "wow classic"
I'd argue, the changed world is what sets classic apart from non-classic. You can experience pretty much the same content in retail now, but you can't revisit the world before the cataclysm.
Hardcore players kill every game. They chew up content at lightspeed and loudly complain that there's nothing to do. Keep the casuals happy and you'll have a game that lasts.
Only a few % of the vanilla WoW player base even saw the inside of a raid instance. There were plenty of hardcore players, but the majority were casual.
Hardcore players? Or did you mean minmaxxers
UNDERRATED COMMENT
Vocal minorities like that, and also of course streamers who play 24/7 and earn money on it, and E-Sport players - they all the publishers and even devs hear. And of course they want game to have more publicity, so they listen to them and balance game for them.
Though I'm not sure does it really help the game more than help. Cause they get publicity but scare the actual players away, making their experience miserable.
@@stanislavkimov2779 So they make the game look good on stream... you buy it thinking "oh yeah this is something i could get in to.." and then realise you're just whale food 30mins after you log in. Job done. You just got farmed kid
People didn't play Wow for the Bosses, but the social grouping.
THANK YOU
Nailed it
yeah and asmon just ignores this big part of game and working together for a goal. too difficult bwaabwaa
@@Akqueq I mean Asmon doesn't have friends that he progs with and mostly hasnt for years. So why would he recognize this lol.. Want to clear something as Asmon? Get a carry then tell people who are progging it to get gud after.
the social grouping was always pretty shit but it got alot worse with the recent expansions
0:43 Classic WoW, at the MOST, was a trilogy. WoW changed mostly for the worse after Wrath.
Not from my experience. If you enjoyed Wrath there's not really any reason you wouldn't enjoy Cata. The "old world" excuse is pure cope
@@gg025wrath is the turn for the bad times peak was tbc
@@gg025 yeah, no
wrong, classic wow iskrap
controversal take: it started in woltk
"over the years classic wow has cultivated a hardcore community." Well, yeah if all the casual players left because they are not experiencing the game, and hardcore players are all that you have left, that's not cultivating...
@@hliang4 More like "culling"
In a version of the game that requires teamwork, it became about how to trick people in to helping farm gear for a small clique of officers and the GM.
It's like... Ok you're autistic and have an anxiety problem. That's great. Didn't ask. But now you've mentioned it, why are you in charge of coordinating 39 other people and managing HR loot council drama in DM's all day?
In the end all the guilds collapsed because of some version of this. The "hardcore" players can't play the game with other people.
@@nicox500 Good point.
@@jorgejiminez-rk1uu lmao Witcher 3 is the most overrated game of all time
@@xiNerdLordix the worst part is the fans hyped it up cause it's an 'indie company' even though it has a billion dollar company behind it...
The biggest problem with WoW is that there are too many versions of it competing for a dwindling player base. When SoD came out there was huge drop off in player pop on my Wrath Classic server. It's happening again with the new retail expansion. Given the huge amount of time players have to commit to accomplish their goals in the game.
Telling people to get good in bad/ Not fun games reinforces Misery Loves Company.
Rittz - Misery loves Company
isnt that his stance about soulsbrone games?
@@MsSovereign1214somewhat, it's moreso that the soulsborne community were a bunch asses to him when he was first trying to get into the game, not that the games were bad.
Like in Shadow of the Erdtree?
Only reason this mentality exist isn't because of cata it's because 40man raiding I was clearing bwl and aq40 with 31-35 members and 7 of which were all gray parsing debuff cap ruining morons who literally just wouldn't listen we had a priest recruit in aq40 who would use rank 1 swp while healing and randomly dps until they were oom and we suddenly had healing issues vanilla is not only undertuned but it's a 40man raid size think of how many ZG/ZA/Kara runs struggled in vanilla and tbc because of the shear dead weight these players were cata is fairly easy even on heroic most of it is just easy it's not even a skill diff it's just like if you're able to function at an average level cata is still obtainable for you the only prune is people who probably wipe in dungeons/heroics
Wow will never be what it was at launch because…
-The game was new.
-Playing felt consequential. You needed to form communities and strategically play to accomplish goals.
-you would make actual friends from across the real world. You actually connected with people. It wasn’t “oh you aren’t a ten time gladiator and we can’t get top 1% immediately?! I’m outskies!”
-It was like an actual world, mentally.
-Connectivity through media was almost completely different. WOW’s structure incentivized people to make their own communities. The server itself was a community.
Also:
TH-cam didn't exist
Smartphones didn't exist
Pretty much. Classic Andys don't want to recapture WoW vanilla... They want to recapture 2005. 😅 It's legit lame.
@@williamdrum9899ya to add to yours, WoW was an early form of social media in its own that worked well when your only source of info was to ask others in game about how to accomplish things. The insane amount of info now readily available and how quick it spreads hurts the game at its core unfortunately and it some ways have torn up the biggest aspect of MMOs which was discovering as a community.
Social media destroyed MMOs
Discord destroyed forums
@@hydromancer4916 Chatting on IGN all day playing UO, DAoC, and EQ . While in IQ with the entire server you were playing on. Community was intertwined.
I wonder if the Warlock who got the corrupted ashbringer quit
Legendary warlock with ashbringer, hope he makes a video about it
@@wildblueberry7he did, look for a ninja loot video
WoW will never reclaim it's former glory until they stop designing the game around the top 1% of players.
bingo
This
Exactly the opposite.
Making the game low-iq and generic "click shiny buttons hurry"! Killed WoW. It's always the casuals that destroy something then move onto the next new shiny (probably mobile) game in weeks. Rewarding everyone, for everything for no reason, killed WoW.
But they did that in cata and forward. Game is so casual so made for 99% people and since then is trash
and the 1% that is woke gamers
people need to understand that what Asmongold refers to as "hard" is essentially mechanics that if ONE player messes up it will wipe the entire raid.
Is it actually HARD for an individual who knows the boss, knows mechanics, knows timers, knows when to use cooldowns? no. It is HARD to find a group of 20 people who also know it.
Hard in this sense is more of it is TOO PUNISHING and is not fun. it is NOT FUN to get good in a game where one bad player can ruin your gameplay, heck, not even 1 bad player, just 1 bad play by someone you have no control over.
Look at classic raids, 40man raid where you only need like 10 people who know what they are doing, 10 people who have ok game knowledge, and 20 cold bodies that can somewhat DPS
It's the everquest 2 design all over again, make ultra-punishing content for the top 1% of players, then after years the game dies out because all these mechanics will never be seen by the average player
there's very very very few mechanic that wipe raid outside of mythic raid... and even on mythic raid, it's only on the last 2-3 bosses.
Normal-mode tyndral has been solo'd by a hunter. how is this hard for a 10 man group to do?
That should be at each devs workspace and meeting rooms.
I saw a comment that said a guy and like a half dozen of his family played when the game was designed that way.
Like the bads at mechanics would farm the raid mats needed and would get carried in return.
They couldn't keep carrying
The design became the meme
"Git gud"
Personally if I want retail difficulty I'm playing an rts
When design changed a few nopd out
Now none of them play.
I'll throw in with that crowd.
@Joseph11441 you're weird
@@vincenthamel3420 Since mythic raid gives the highest reward, it is the only raid that matters. You don't go into a raid with the intention of stopping at 9/12 bosses because the next 3 have wipe mechanics, therefore, by the definition I have provided, that raid is too hard.
If your argument is that they can just do Heroic raid, it doesn't offer the best gear, then we can just go ahead and say that they should just do M+ instead of raid or LFR if they want the "raid experience" since they clearly don't care about the ilvl. The point is that raids are too hard and the only ones doing them are the top players, mythic raids are like top 1%, heroic raids are top 10%, and normal raids were at like 40% of players do them. Why do they create GEAR PROGRESSION content for vast minority of players? It's just weird game design and waste of resources tbh. I am not against having mythic raids, but because it is the highest ilvl, it needs to be achievable for majority of players, if it was pure cosmetic it would have less problems.
Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of classic raids either, 40man is just stupid, but it shows how easy they are if u r able to get 40 players with an accumulative IQ of 1 human genius and still beat it
What made me dip out of WoW were a few important things:
- Server Community: when the game launched, you had the people on your server to play with. That was it. And you knew them.
You knew Drom the undead rogue liked to hang around EPL for some reason, and that he struggled against frost mages.
You knew Ishtawind, the paladin who just had no idea how to play at all.
You knew that if you partied with Tyna the gnome priest you'd have a good time because he would always be in a great mood.
You knew that horde guild that always raided Wednesdays at four, so if you wanted to cause hell you knew where they would be traveling through.
Which leads to my next thing:
- You had to do the thing. You had to travel to places to do things. You saw people out and about. This gave me at least a larger sense of investment in the activity, and made the game overall more enjoyable.
The game wasn't just the dungeon, it was all of the context around it as well, including getting there.
- Flying/wpvp changes
On a pvp server, introducing a method to ignore world pvp altogether by just flying, really wasn't it.
It isn't that you'd have to want to engage with world pvp. But you had to factor it in.
If you wanted to farm something, you had a few choices:
Farm in farming gear, and be more at risk but efficient.
Farm in pvp gear and be a little slower but safer.
Be in a group farming situation; safety in numbers.
It gave the traveling and general going about a flair of adventure and cost and excitement.
Which went with flying mounts firstly, and eventually since people just don't have to go places to do things.
Of course I see the benefits to all these changes, I just feel like I personally as a player lost too much in the trade.
I think I kept playing on and off for a few expansions. I think I left for "good" after Naxxramas, but I may be misremembering. It's been a while.
Classic TBC and WotLK was just not a "Classic" experience due to ingame Shops and pretty much 80% of players just chasing the meta. Had no one to play with, since all my mates and everyone on the realm just wanted to 100% ASAP instead of just playing and having fun.
Tbc was still classic until swp but have to agree after that it was done 😂
Maybe I’m looking at it with nostalgia glasses, but I feel like meta and theorycrafting was a lot more fun back then (2000s) too. Now I’m seeing a lot of games meta turning into spreadsheets and math.
As a former mage I'd have to agree that people chased meta but they were really, really dumb back then. Maybe they still are. I don't know, WOtLK changed the game too much and I quit. Classic felt about the same as TBC but Blizzard going full China made me quit that.
In TBC most mages spec'ed fire even though it was suboptimal for straight up damage up to 1200 spell damage or so, after the fix on the burn stacking. Frost being better not only at straight up damage but it also took less time to load so you were more mobile, consumed less mana and did less aggro. Frost also also had way more survivability. The math was eventually done to prove it but too late to change anything.
My guild never made it past T5 content but at least the mages weren't at fault after I told them to fix their stuff and their DPS went up by 30% a piece. Mainly the super casual healers were.
There is such a thing as too casual blocking the progress for the rest for months and months and it's no fun.
It's a 15 years old meta. Of course it would be stale and figured out after these years, what do you people thought it would happen?
Ya its like the LFG groups that wanna B-line to the end boss and get out for their valor cap right now in Cata it almost a cardinal sin to most players now to pull a couple packs that take 20 sec to kill when you can spend 15 sec jumping on a wall to run around them.
Too many players ignored that WoW was supposed to be an RPG, especially in Wrath. And the biggest offender of this is the man now in charge of the game, Ion Hazzikostas. He's 100% "that guy".
I've been saying this for years, but this actually started at the end of Vanilla, you just didn't notice it. Both AQ and Naxx catered to Ion and the other small number of top guilds. People forget how many casual guilds just stopped playing not long after AQ was released. Ion is the one who destroyed the original game and he's still there because management is too stupid to understand that nobody should have listened to him in the first place.
@@esad15 yep, you nailed it honestly
@@esad15 WoW has been the no.1 MMO for 20 years, only briefly contested by FF during the shadowland period.
if that's Ion doing, the guy need a raise...
Yea i said since legion and bfa ion hazzikostas destroyed my lovely game.
@@vincenthamel3420 I must be living in a parallel reality then, because for the past 5 years the game has barely managed to stay relevant to be even mentioned in top MMO lists.
I think what destroyed wow was expansions. In og Vanilla, before we knew about TBC, we did not know there was an end to those first raids. We didn’t think we were in a rush. As time went by we always knew new raids and expansions would be released. This pushed the playerbase to get more and more hardcore.
I don’t want to HAVE to spend hours for world buffs and consumables to raid. I want raids to be accessible.
That's one of the dumbest point ever, my god hahahah
Do you people even try to make sense?
@@sensaiko Eh... expansions did destroy the game. Think about it. Every expansion that was released, the game got worse. Every expansion made previous content worthless.
5:46 asmon talking to his gf at night
Lmfao
Hahaahah
Haahhah brilliant!
Blizzard had me for life. I loved everything they did. They really betrayed the fans in every way.
osrs man, its time.
@@Pentagonalismsomeone is porting it to wow client as we speak.
@@YeIsCorrect Not porting lol. They are just trying to recreate osrs in wow.
@@Mr.Reality do you have the tism?
@@YeIsCorrect No. Do you have dyslexia?
Unpopular opinion, but I'm actually really enjoying cata classic! I didn't get to play it back in the day, so it's brand new to me. It feels like the sweet spot between classic and retail. Old enough to be nostalgic, but new enough to have good quality of life. The raids are hard, but not too hard. My guild is 8/13 on heroic.
All we wanted was classic plus, not some seasonal bullsh@#.
We don't want runes we just want new classic content, areas and dungeons that didn't get finished and became old-school lore of what could of been.
You think you do but you really don't. What we should get is wow2, complete new graphical engine rewamp and new everything.
They had to prove people would like a classic + before they made one
@@yoslo6832its literally this simple yet this community refuses to believe it.
The devs have gotten their proof and it's very likely we'll see an actual form of classic+ in the near future.
Its been a massive success despite the player drop-off.
@@Giliver exactly. All the players who complain are gonna get a classic + though and they will complain.
SOD is vanilla but with every class and spec actually being somewhat playable. I think it's pretty rad
Wrath is end of Classic Era.
Cata, Mop, and WoD should be regarded as a Systems Era, where they experimented by adding non-wintergreen systems.
Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands are the "Borrowed Power" era. Artifact, Azerite, and Anima Power.
Really well put
While I agree with the categories in hindsight, Legion only became "Borrowed Power" after the fact.
Of course integrating Artifacts into future design would have been a challenge, but during Legion itself there was no reason to assume that it was "borrowed power", since taking it away wasn't on the table yet.
Borrowed power? You mean grindfest, casino and shop simulator era?
Cata also changed the base game zones at that point as well so it's a good marker to end the Classic Era on as well. The Classic era was pretty much just adding onto what was previously there with only class changes being the major thing that really changed.
I quit Classic because of blizzard idiots managing it and transforming it into retail. Mounts for sale, wow token, all sort of paid services including boost? It was a massive slap in the face of classic players, insulting. Modern blizzard is not capable to have a classic mindset allowing them to support game like that.
Blizzard looked at Old-School Runescape's success and assumed that it was successful due to nostalgia, so they launched WoW Classic and ran it into the ground because of this incorrect assumption.
People don't play OSRS because of nostalgia. They play it because of familiarity and because it's a vastly superior game to Runescape 3.
Blizzard should have done 100% original updates and expansions for Classic and had everything be community-voted. The game would have thrived. Instead, they just let it sit stagnant, and re-released old expansions for it, continuing to assume that nostalgia would keep people around.
The sad thing is, I bet Blizzard is completely confused as to why OSRS is thriving but WoW Classic is basically dead. They just don't understand.
6:15 we just witnessed the death of a brain cell in real time
didn't expect to see you here at all thirty
yeah that shit looked painful lol
6:21 bro became a defias miner
can i get 100 mil in skyblock
The problem isn’t I have to get good. The problem is I have to find X other people that are good. And logs kills the spirit and fun of the game.
Wotlk guilds were collapsing by end of that expansion. Then Cata entered the room with a baseball bat and finished off a lot of the surviving guilds.
*Wrath* - is the worst xpac for many reasons. Remove *Ulduar & Citadel* and what you got?
Aside from Story - What are you left with?
*Wrath* - brought the casual audience in. But failed to continue the (Noob friendly) enviroment.
@@Real-Name..Maqavoy wrath tried to appeal to everyone and ended up appealing to no one.
@@australienski6687 Except it was when the peak player count was, so clearly it appealed to significantly more of everyone than any expansion before or since.
No matter where you think Classic "ends" Cata is on the other side of that line.
Surprisingly... I DID enjoy Cata when it first came out... And planned to play the Classic Relaunch with one of my best mates...
But... Yeah! For some reason, when the launch came, we just didn't bother!
Cata is a VERY controversial expansion! Some claim that it was Wrath when Vanilla starting turning into Retail.... But Cata most definitely took that process into hyperspace! And marks a clear division between the two.
And I would agree... Cata does lie on the other side of that division!
@@sdwone Cata bosses were soooooo broken on launch...
I think the pivot point was in Wrath. Or I’d say wrath was itself the line.. and cata clearly stepped across it full send.
You're absolutely right! I started wow in cata, and I think that is why I can't get into classic. I know that sounds weird, but my soul is in retail because I am used to the cata level and landscape. I did find it cool to see classic wow and experience it, I think stormwind needs the park back. But I also like things that are quality of life enhancements on the retail side. If they could find a way to combine the two on a classic plus, that doesn't just add off class specs ( Like healing arcane mages per example ) Which was fun no doubt however not sustaining enough for me to want to give my life to it. That would be sweet.
@@katiemac546 interesting.. I wonder if most retail players began with Cata or later?
This video proves that people playing OSRS are playing not of nostalgia but because the game is good.
Right, because it is.
I redid the WoW journey: Vanilla > TBC > WotLK.
That's the Warcraft 4 story. That's the end of Warcrafts story as far as I'm concerned.
Very true everything after that story wise seems poorly written and pointless.
"Get good"
- People who were never good at anything
more like this is the one thing they're good at so they are very, very VERY emotionally invested
@@nuggyfresh6430 no, they've just crossed the minimum skill threshold and think it's an achievement. No one who says "get good" would be anywhere near the top 40% in any competitive game.
@@yevgenydevinesounds like ur salty that ur not good
@@yevgenydevineyou are salty af that someone who dedicated their time to get good is flexing lol
@@haki4066 sounds like u spend the Summer inside ur house
Literally ALL they need to do is have 1 server that goes classic/tbc/wotlk on rotation. Get rid of everything else that isnt retail. I guarantee it will be the most popular mode.
Yep , Cata isn't classic, it ruined the landscape of *Azeroth* , I rather play a Private S with Vanilla, TBC, WotLK
If they did this, I'd literally play it till the end of my life
“Cataclysm is too hard.”
Time is a circle.
My guild was still progressing on Sunwell when WotLK classic launched, we all thought there was going to be dedicated TBC servers, but nope, all of our toons got xfered over to WotLK, no warning, no option, no blue post before hand explaining how everything will play out. My whole guild quit because we thought, whats the point? lol, We all do play SoD now though
There was a vote and a warning.
It was absolutely common knowledge what was happening to BC characters.
Y'all were just being exceptionally incompetent.
considering how ridiculously unpopular classic-era server were when TBC launched... what did you expect?
thing is, an MMO player base is made mostly of casuals, the whole genre caters to casual gamers who just wanna hangout and chill. the moment they started making the game for the "elitists" is when they started isolating the majority of the player base, and it started actually in wrath but was blown out of proportion in CATA.
I imagine it doesn't help when the guy who was a part of Elitist Jerks is the Game Director...
@@rizzk02 You know that was just a guild name right? Not to be taken seriously...they were constantly helping the less skilled with instructional videos on raids. You'd know that if you ever attempted to raid. But like everyone who thinks the game is made for hardcore players only, you never tried.
I’m just at a point that I don’t have any drive to play any of the wow versions. Sucks man.
So you don't like Vanilla, SOD, Cata, or Retail. If NONE of those options appeal to you then WoW just isn't for you anymore, and nothing will change that.
@@JeffDays There is a lot that can change that, vanilla fresh or a real classic + not sod.
Turtle ❤
@@JeffDays played vanilla to death, sod is cooked, cata is cooked, retail is cooked. wow died for me after mop ended
I started WoW in Classic, quit at reaching level 80 in wotlk because it felt like a worse version of retail not a better version of classic. played a bit of retail during shadowlands.
I left WoW six years ago. I now play World of Tanks. I have fun in the tanks.
based
I lost my passion for the game in Cata. I didn't quit until the end of Cata. It just wasn't the same game anymore. I hated how they changed the skill trees and dumbed everything down. I also hated how max level players spent 95% of their time just dueling in front of Orgrimmar and queueing for battlegrounds. There was no world pvp anymore.
so the expac who is commonly referred to as a huge difficulty bump compared to everything that came before.... is dumbed down.
and world PVP dying, which happened basically the instant battleground came out in classic, is also blamed on cataclysm, something that came 7 years later.
yeah that make total sense.
@@vincenthamel3420 I remember Tarren Mills was a world pvp hotspot in WotLK. But the map changes in Cata (I can't remember exactly what they did) totally shut it down.
@@tacocruiser4238 no. it wasn't.
world PVP died the instant battleground came out and never, ever recovered. Simply because the zerg V zerg with no objective get boring, camping flight path is boring, ganking people 5 lvl below you get boring.
you remember wrong.
Heck, why would you even believe any reasonable amount of max level char would go back to the old world in WOTLK is beyond me
Saying cata dumbed everything down is wild. In terms of raiding, it's FAR more difficult than vanilla or tbc, and a step up from wrath too.
Example: as a warlock, I was spamming shadowbolt throughout all of vanilla and tbc. Bosses had maybe 1 or 2 notable mechanics for dps players. It was literally braindead, some of the vanilla/tbc raids the trash was harder than the bosses. Now look up the demo warlock rotation in cata. And the bosses are much more complex and there's much more personal responsibility in every encounter.
talent tree was fine lol, nothing wrong with it or different from wrath….. literally no difference. just more people play into the meta. its life. everyone goes online and looks for the meta
Dang, such a rough time for Classic! I knew when it got to cata it'd fall off. However, the idea of taking base classic and just adding new zones/raids (NOT new abilities, and new rolls for classic like SoD) is the only thing that will make people "return to classic" a Classic+ And I think blizz basically just confirmed that.
Won’t happen. Creating new zones and dungeons requires money and time. They are going to just keep re-releasing old content because it’s basically free.
Yeah no. Youve all paid them for re-releasing OLD CONTENT thats not as fun or QoL-fixing as new content.
If dummies buy something twice, whats the point in creating and innovating? Just take the fool-money, and they did. Its player's fault, not the comany this time.
@@joethestrat Blizzard sees where all their players are and what other game/version of wow they are playing(including private servers that make wow a sandbox game, or have created their own version of classic plus). They know they want classic plus. They know NO ONE wants classic MoP. They definitely WILL be doing something like a full classic plus, within a year. Guarantee. They will not ignore the amount of money sitting on the table
@Voltagio57 Of course they will, because it's easy to re-use assets for fools to pay for it twice. I'd do it too if my playerbase were dumb enough to fork tons of money over for something I already sold them.
Glad to see you watching my videos again mate I've missed watching your reactions
@@iiChadd Your content only gets 18 views. I like MetaGoblin's vids. He probably made them ban GDKP on sod after revealing how bad it is. What have you done for the community?
@@coachdubz7533 they ban gdkp to stop bots from selling gold and people buying he did absolute nothing for that he isn’t even a WoW partner? He sells literally dog shit guides that does the exact thing he complains about and only post negative content on wow because algo pushes negativity and people engage with it more. Which is why none of those people are even in the WoW partnership program they do absolutely nothing for the game. My video is for my friends to watch normal people don’t seek attention from randoms my guy.
What if raid design philosophy was based around making a big exciting and very fun experience versus making something very challenging and exclusive to the elite few who have no real lives outside of mythic raiding?
You can do the exact same raid as mythic raiders barring a few mechanics on normal/heroic where 90 year olds and literally blind people irl play. You realize you don't have to do the most difficult content if you're gonna complain about difficulty lol
Go do lfr normal heroic
Make the design around both. Why is Elden Ring so much fun? A lot of bosses are very difficult if not utilizing all the tools handed to you, they are extremely flashy, and (the most important part imo) they can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours to beat depending on playthrough. The problem WoW has especially in raiding is the mobs. If you aggro mobs, then you have to kill them if you don't want to wipe or waste resources. A raid can take a couple of hours to 6+ hours depending on how the team takes care of the mobs.
that's why you have normal mode and heroic mode, both allowing flex format.
Mythic mode exist for those who have fun challenging themselves.
I work 45 hrs a week and clear 13/13 hm on cata on two characters what's the issue? What impedes you to not do it?
Man I loved this game soooo much glad I got to play at its peak. Wasn’t the same when classic and everything came out.
Legion?
Dude. Western world was at its peak
I am one of those new players to WoW classic. I'm on the SoD server, I started on retail in 2017 and was so lost as a new player since theres so much going on. I found that, while playing on classic, then to SoD, that its my preferred gameplay. I haven't played cata, but if something is too hard, can bet I'm not going to stick my neck out to try and clear it. I'm not a hard core player, probably never will be. I'm learning about the lore while I play classic SOD as the zones haven't been altered like they are in cata and retail. So that's its appeal to me.
Classic launch was retail rerelease in the disguise from the beginnning
JA Brack is somewhere cackling maniacally while in a strait jacket
I will never understand why so many of his audience fight him on every wow take.. he was literally one of the 0.01% super sweats he knows what he's talking about
His viewers think that because he barely plays nowadays, his many years of experience suddenly mean nothing.
"I'm currently playing retail so I know better than the guy who has seen WoW's strategies for 20 years".
@@apensalesman The only take of his that I completely disagree with is his claim that Retail is harder for new players to understand and get into. It's objectively easier to get into and understand now that it ever has been.
@@guska5523 Mythic+ is more difficult than any classic dungeon for a new player, raids are much more difficult, classes are much more difficult, literally everything is more difficult. Not to mention the fact that in the classics you didn’t have to keep track of everything, now you have to level up the Persian, then level up the new Adon mechanics, then grind activities in different locations of different patches, there’s too much content for a person who just came to WoW
@@alexbg9287 new players aren't doing Mythic+ content. New players aren't likely to be doing raids outside of LFR. There's no previous expansion content that needs to be done in order to catch up, and the rest doesn't matter until you're trying to do that Mthic+ content, at which point, you're not a new player any more.
The actual new player experience (I'm talking first few week-month here) is SO much more streamlined and simple than anything from Classic. To claim otherwise simply highlights the fact that you're not a new player, which, in turn, means that your opinion of the new player experience is utterly worthless.
@@guska5523 Retail is streamlined in so far as it offers a very effective path to the level cap, but it is far less simple. You end up getting bombarded with a flood of skills and systems very suddenly after a leveling process that is far too condensed. For an actual new player, even simple raiding like LFR is a vicious spike in difficulty when compared to the leveling process unless the new player is a seasoned gamer. This is because the leveling in retail is completed too quickly and with too little challenge.
Wow classic has a far more gradual skill curve and lower skill ceiling. Players are drip fed t skills over a long period of time allowing them to embed them and become competent in using the broader skill set of their class. The level of threat that the world throws at a new player during the leveling process is also far more well tailored, as fighting solo mobs is simple, while fighting packs is moderately challenging and requires a modicum of learning.
But honestly the extremely obvious entropy of retail compared to classic makes it clear that classic is far more new player friendly. If you can't see that then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.
People want hard but not complex. People want to easily pick up the game, understand the game but also have a bit of a challenge. Whereas retail wow is complex where there is 50 buttons u got to smash, 50 aoe things you got to hit and many different rotations and mathematical equations you got to figure out to do a raid and you got to either do this with 5 other people or in a raid group.
cope
Playing some classes in retail feels like osu😅
@@bitze865 deathknight and holy priest give me this feeling for some reason. It's like smashing every button on the keyboard.
And this is why FFXIV has nabbed most of the market. The normal raids do fit that very fine line between standard difficulty and challenging.
I don't remember if it was the store mounts, the squelching of the emotes because of the reaction to the store mounts, the P2W level boosts, or the "Body Type 1" and "Body Type 2" fiasco, but it was one of those.
The Season of Discovery started out so well, but then they gave everyone a 100% experience boost, which completely destroyed the main point of classic WoW: the world. The horrible balance and super sweaty new raids didn't help either. In a sense, they quickly turned it into another version of retail WoW that no one likes... Unreal. I knew it was too much to ask from the current dev team to "improve" on the classic, and I was right.
Not sure how you can see the classic re-releases as anything other than passionless money grabby garbage.
Not all gamers are bright, that's for sure. Some of them even begged for this lmao. Dopes.
No one wanted Cata Classic. SoD is a test playground for Classic+, they tested what works and what does not work. That's clear of what they did in phase 3 didn't work and they lost momentum with Cata to develop phase 4 further. Hope they stop Classic at Cata and focus on Classic+ development.
Classic+ isn’t happening bud lol. Let it go. The new story is in retail
They'll probably do Mists given how popular it is. Would do better than Cata at least but maybe the remix version on retail is a sign they won't bother?
@@mattemattics5667 Tim Jones strongly hinted that it's happening in his interview with Hammerdance.
"No one wanted Cata Classic" but it is waayy more popular than all of the other classics, so I call bullshit on that statement.
@@JBelmont7 yeah, saw the interview today. Looks like it’s happening in near future
I played Classic for about a week. First WOW ever. Takes FOREVER to find a Group. I'd spend about an hour before i find a group that does it once and quits. So i go back to quest leveling to get to higher lvl dungeon hoping there will be more people grouping and spend about an hour spamming until i settle for helping a group at an underlevel dungeon. Then go back to quest leveling to a Dungeon No one is grouping for. You cant even play the game unless your lvl 55-60.
@@catra195 don't worry it gets worse, just wait until you meet the gate keepers
The endgame in WOW was never the raids. Think about it...Why get the best gear if you don't use it... And what you use it on ? The end game of having it...Addiction is not doing, but having...
You see this with the raid locusts in the pserver scene as well. They don't want to play the game, they want to chase a feeling they used to get, and you see it constantly when they start demanding all the shortcuts to get immediately into "endgame". And then they kill the server when they get exactly what they asked for.
Games need goal, achievement, idea of Victory. MMOs are tricky in this regard, as getting to the finish line should be close to impossible, yet you should always have carrot to chase and bite on. You need to want, get, want more. Slowly enough so there is still something left, fast enough so you don't feel stuck
Many, if not most, people playing video games are some form of a completionist, so every gear drop that is not BiS is an irritation even when an upgrade. So everyone is rushing towards endgame and latest raid.
raiding is not about getting gear. that's true.
but raiding is the endgame.
Pvp will always be the true end game
I remember back when WoW first released, if it wasn't your first MMO, you considered it the easy MMO. Classic was never hard, and WoW shouldn't be hard, it's better as a casual game.
and that's why retail now have 4 different difficulties for raid.
if mythic is too hard for you, there's 3 easier options.
@@vincenthamel3420 No one wants to do a lesser difficulty and feel like a loser for not being good, that's the reason retail is dead.
@Mathus1 this simply doesn't make sense. Wow got it's fame when people thought raiding was hard and inaccessible. The first time they started adding changes to make the entire game more casual is when it stopped growing. (Wotlk)
If you want to say mythic raids are too hard sure fine but to say the entire game is catered around the 1% is laughably inaccurate and shows that you only think of raiding as content which surprising is the only content in the game with any difficulty.
The real problem is everything is so EASY and accessible except top difficulty raids that the entire game is BORING to do.
Old dungeons were more fun than the linear "gogogo" designed modern dungeons.
In MOP I once got 5 levels in the span of 1 min with the exp potion, can only imagine how quick it is now (have not played since wod) that's boring. New players do not want to jump into max level and raids they want to play a game but the whole game is too EASY. They don't even try raids before quitting...
The "retail raids too hard" is a gross oversimplification of the problems in Wow.
Again the game was most popular when raids were seen as inaccessible and the players dropped the more it became. Dungeons, leveling and quests need more love and to not just be afk are zerg fests
Hardcore was the “hard” version and in about the fairest way possible. HC also kept the economy relevant, and gold-buyers were absolutely laughed at.
@@ftur.4139 what is not fun? sub-mythic difficulties?
You can't complain about mythic difficulty being tuned for the 1% and also say that non-mythic is boring.
pick one or the other. you cant have both.
I'm so glad to hear Asmon isn't going to play Season of Discovery. The game is saved!
I can tell why i quitted without even watching video first. I quitted because of Cataclysm. It is not classic wow anymore. Neither is classic era. All i wanted was TBC server.
Re-release the trilogy and make a big event out of it just like 2019
do that every 10 years and i'm happy tbh
Copium
Release classic with no changes and keep it that way. No tbc or wrath. Classic forever. I want every class in full T3. Give me time to accomplish that.
Is that classic era then? Honestly curious. Never played originally @mikeoxlong3676
@@mikeoxlong3676 You had enough time to acomplish the T3 during classic in 2020, if u didnt do it, was becasue u eventually got bored of it and only hoped on again in TBC or WOTLK like everyone else. why are u asking for it again if u bored of it the 1st time whats the diference now?
the trilogy is what classic should be and we could repeat it every so often, but it had to be the only classic at one time, no SOD, no hardcore, no cata/mop classic, every player wanting to play classic had to play that or nothign else, otherwise the comunity is too split for the MMO aspect survive.
This is exactly what Jimmy was talking about with OSRS. It's not the nostalgia keeping OSRS player count rising, it's the new content and QoL updates. From what I know of WoW they didn't add anything new.
Exactly!
It's the bots, the tens of thousands of bots.
@@Philip_Taylor No it's not, there isn't nearly as many bots as people think.
Our quite large friends and family circle quit Classic because we wanted a Classic 2.0 and we got Cata, hardcore, SOD, retail accompanied by an abundance of gdkp runs and bots... duck you blizzard and duck ALL of your supporters. You deserve each other 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The thing that makes a good MMO is a thriving community that can thrive without alienation. The game needs to be appealing enough for casuals to get into it, stay into it, and want to achieve the skill ceiling. While also having stuff for hardcore players, but as the bald man said, its a lot easier for those players to make their own challenge, than to alienate others by raising it so high, the casual playerbase won't ever want to try to achieve or get there. Sadly those who just want nothing but difficulty because they're hardcore tend to only stay in their little statics/guilds Ignoring and contradicting the idea of a MMO being a whole world and community to take part in. But even if you help, and the games to difficult for any casual to want to even try, the entire thing ends up fruitless. So to anyone in any MMO who is hardcore who teaches, helps noobs/casuals, has patience and looks to make the games playerbase healthy, my hat goes off to you
They have 100% been listening to feedback from the wrong players. There is an interview with Kevin Jordan where he outlines why basing design decisions off of hardcore players' feedback for an MMORPG is a terrible idea. I agree.
Cata is when solo wow became casual and raid wow became hardcore.
Solo play became dull and mindless.
Raid play for semi-casual guilds made of 10 or so real life friends + people accumulated over the previous expansions became unable to progress in the raids because they didn't have enough hardcore players to do so.
Raid play for a collection of randos joining a guild on mass was unplayable.
This isn't classic WoW.
I didnt quit classic. I just play Turtle WoW. Best iteration of wow thats available. With unreal 5 coming in 2025, android play, steam deck. How could you not be playing TWoW if you love classic.
Is there going to be a fresh server?
Because its a copycat illegal server , which Blizzard can take down at will and im not investing my time into something that can be wiped at will.
@Psysso blizzard isn't taking down russian server farms.
Yeah, TWoW has been active since 2019. Haters are gonna hate, but it's a testament to Blizzard's failure with classic. If you played on the server you know what I'm talking about. Is it absolutely perfect? No. But at the end of the day it's far better than retail, and everyone knows it.
@@Psysso😂 Blizzard is a copycat, war craft is no longer war craft and it hasn't been for at least 10 years. It's just a bunch of lsrs who hijacked a game and added their own fan fiction at this point which is the real reason it stopped growing in popularity.
It's not good because the og sold out long ago
The crazy thing about the first tier of cata raids, they were even harder on release. This is after they were nerfed 2 times. Once like a month after release and another with a later patch that normalized heroic damage. Ppl still struggle with some of the fights. I remember people just couldnt do certain heroic dungeons at first it was just too much for them. Blizz course corrected hard with dragonsoul and left everyone with that raid for like a year which seriously impacted sub numbers. Then they announced pandas which, while it is a beloved expansion by a lot of newer players it was one of the expansions that caused a lot of the older players to finally drop the game for a while. A ton of people who started in vanilla quit in either cata or mop and came back a bit in leigon. They never really understood the wow version 1.0 design philosophy after cata, it just became more and more slanted towards the top 10% of players and then mythic came out and it just got even worse. Its why a ton of people just want a classic reset at vanilla, or a classic plus server with more dialed back changes.
“We want old content, we want hard raids, we want you to be forced to interact with people and spend hours in the game building up guilds and set groups, stop making the game based around casuals!”
‘Raiding is too hard now, it’s not casual friendly, I don’t wanna have to actually form a raid group instead of pugging!!!’
Never hire gamers because even they don’t know what they want lmfao
The first one is like seven people, and the second one is like hundreds. Don't hire or listen to gamers who fall into the first one because they're a statistically irrelevant minority.
Because It's Cataclysm. We knew that would happen since 2019 guys.
As I always said, a classic version of Cata doesn't make any sense, it's the version that completely destroyed the social aspect of WoW and made it go in decline. Making a classic version and expecting different results only shows how out of touch Blizzard is.
Cata was where it all started to go wrong, why the fuck would anyone want that failure point to return.
everyone was laughing and picking on the no changes crowd because they liked the changes, now everyone complains about changes because they no longer like the changes, the irony
They choose terrible changes... Changes aren't the issue, the most wanted was extra zones, dungeons, and potentially gear that is on the same level as the top gear in classic as alternatives only. This way you keep the fun same experience as classic wow, but have more fresh content to experience... Instead we get SOD which is just.............
@@merccc1its fun
SoD is fun
If y'all don't like it that's cool but it doesn't make it any less fun.
what the other guy said , they choose terrible changes , if they just implement like sub class boomie , arc mage , spriest , ret paladin mechanics with vanilla settings + maybe some new maps its will just be better , and please just stay away from the gdkps , ppl dont understand the balance of it is the one making the game alive
@@itsror666 this is kinda the problem with changes, people like you want to say this is good and that is bad, and so does every single other person with a different opinion. it turns into a jumble of good and bad changes, so the no changes policy prevents any possibility of nonsense
Asmon: "its not hard?!? are you stupid?".... well thats precisely why those people DONT find it hard.. cause they ARENT stupid... The hardest part of raiding in wow is finding 20-25 competent people to do the raids...
People can't be bothered to rub 2 braincells together to move out of something. Hence DBM & GTFO was created.
Classic andies would stand in shit just to get a higher parse instead of adjusting for mechanics.
Not even joking, when trying to do Mythic Gnarlroot in S3, we had a holy pally only heal when he needed to just go grow his parsing instead of just constant healing to help others.
I've honestly had so much fun progging cata raid every week. Are the bosses hard? Well they can be if you don't do certain things right. But they are possible. And it's fun strategizing and figuring things out.
you shouldn't need a full raid of competent people. in a 40 man mc you could have 5 dead weights and no one would even notice.
I quit WoW Classic Era after spending 1.5 months of my holidays grinding in an internet café to finally reach Rank 14, which cost me €500. On Sunday, June 9th, 2024 which was my birthday, after capping my honor to be Rank 14 on reset, I got a permanent ban 5 minutes after logging out. The feeling was indescribable, like they did it on purpose. When I appealed the ban, all I received were automatic replies. That’s when I decided to say f*ck you, Blizzard. 12 Year old account, and a lot of efford and emotions just gone.
@@saucesecrete Devastating my heart. It was my birthday and it was such a special day when i hit my 420k honor for the last time before rank14. I couldnt blv it, i just freeze and was depressed for weeks man. And iam still depressed.
@@saucesecrete sometimes when i scroll on youtube shorts, and i see rogues making content, i skip it immediately and almost everytime it makes me remember how much fun i had with my rogue, and fall in tears. Maybe you dont understand, but i love this game.
I played it with my father when i was a kid. And my dream was always one day to be a High Warlord...
When did WoW start catering to the top 1%? Back when I quit in 2010, they weren't catering to the top 1% or even top 10%. They had been making changes to cater to more casual players and nerfing the game in general since 2008. By 2010 it seemed like their goal was to be able to have a random group of players get together on a whim and be somewhat successful at endgame raids. Did WoW change course on this sometime since 2010?
It changed with the release of WOTLK in 2009 when they started making the game more casual accessable.
Prior to that, the hardest raids were really only cleared by the top 1-2% of hardcore raiders, and that was what so many of us loved.
Season of Discovery was just the Project Ascension private server done half assed
Blizzard isn't blizzard anymore. It's been a decade since they ceased to be.
They're just a pay2win company now with games that are less satisfying than 10 years ago
@@michealrosen nah man they make such good content! its awesome really, its a re release of 3 expansions that came out 20 fucking years ago.
People quit Classic because it was played out like every MMO does lol.... you'll still have people that stuck around of course, just look at servers like Mankrik on Cata. But, the majority that just play because it's the big thing at the time will leave. It happens with literally every game, let alone every MMORPG
Biggest WoW problem has been its player-base. Most of them haven't played other online games since vanilla and are unable to see that Blizzard has literaly scammed them in so many ways years after years.
That's almost stockholm syndrom.
Why didn't Blizz keep dedicated TBC or WotLK servers?
If I remember correctly they didn't want to split the playerbase, but they've done that anyways.
TBC was literally dead within 4 months outside of 2-3 servers on US/EU and wrath died with ulduar. Why would they keep 800 versions of wow running
@veppy4952 There is an argument to be had for a single server to be left up for each version. They are already running 5(?) different versions of WoW right now.
@@Chopstorm. if it is profitable blizzard will do it, they either don't think the demand is there or they haven't figured out how to monetize it, or both.
Economy dies, everyone gets geared up, new players can't find dungeons and low level pvp, leveling is a boring grind fest alone, professions are useless because auction house is bloated with every mat and recipe
For me back in 2005/2006 or whenever AQ and then Naxx came out, I quit raiding and just did casual pvp and some gold farming. Those raids were extremely hard and time consuming. And also I was 16 years old 😊
Too hard = bad
We quit because of boosting. Gold buying. Cheating. 99% players cheat. It’s not fun when everyone cheats.
Quit because reporting 30 bots a day only to see 40 new bots the next day isn't fun. I don't want to have to fight China to tag mobs.
true absolute
what we need to play this game
for fun quests and also meet other players
I like how all the replies keep disappearing from this comment.
Cata is where I first stepped away from WoW the first time.
Same, coming from wrath when I was having fun as a holy paladin raiding ICC to getting absolutely destroyed in cata heroic 5 mans.
The end of cata was when I stepped away, I was playing from release of vanilla, never returned and don't see any reason to return the game looks terrible now.
That Elden Ring example is dumb because a lot of people couldn't complete it - hello, recently someone sued them over ERs difficulty XD
“Get gud” - Paste Eater Champion
The Downfall of WoW in general directly correlates with the dumbifying of the Night Elf Lore that is nothing but a weird mess today.
Bring back tall, sweaty amazonian women that are ANGRY because their MEN are SLEEPING all DAY, while they're left to DEFEND the fucking WORLD from evil.
I quit WoW in BFA because of what they did to Night Elves.
WoW is now part of Microsoft, has more versions for different players than ever before, and has a mobile game and spin offs. The game probably has 5x the developers team than in 2008. The game has never been better, it's the perception of the game being for sweaty gamers that had changed.
@@Fable64 A tragedy isn't it :(
@@kenbobcornNo way, you arent a Blizzard employee saying this shit.
Unfortunately that was true only for the Orc campaign of W3. Even by the NF campaign is was just Tyrande being psycho and short sighted and Malfurion saving everyone.
I used to play a Blizzard game almost every day or every other day for over 10-15 years. Between WoW, Starcraft, Overwatch, and Hearthstone... They've lost their edge in their quest to appease shareholders. It's not really a gaming company anymore. It's a business that is constantly looking for ways to increase profitability.
I officially quit all forms of WoW once I saw early access for the new Xpac only for the elite package. It's so shamless that it now obvious they are attempting to just milk out the game for the rest of its juice untill they officially close down. Lost the little respect I still had for the game after that.
Im playing Turtle WoW not classic wow.
No one cares
You cared enough to respond.
TWoW 4 lyfe
@@jmcke802 TWOW until blizz takes legal action and you loose all your toons overnight , lmao.
@@Psyssoas opposed to quitting SoD, classic era or retail? Not much use of the tools when you don't play anyways.
@@PsyssoIts a game who cares?
I’m a classic Andy and I think the way they are doing difficulty levels is totally fine and it is not hard to deal with even for classic Andy’s. On heat 3 molten core it’s pretty much just as easy as heat 1 once you get the gear
Elden Ring also encapsulates the idea that hardcore players will make the game harder on their own: "Can't use mimic!" "Can't use summons!" "Can't gather Scadu Fragments!"
This type of difficult creep killed an MMO I played a few years back. They geared the game to give the highly skilled players a challenge.
Making different difficulty tiers in raids was more than enough to give a larger range of player to complete endgame raids. During WotLK they started designing the game to completed by any random group with minimal prep. That was the beginning of the end.
We don't like cataclysm. We want a fresh classic server release.
Tldr: Because it's not classic WoW.
There can never be another classic experience of anything to improve it because most players of classic don't want improvement
Or at the very least will never be able to agree as a community what improvement can be made.
Some people don't care for old or new, they play because it's enjoyable or satisfying.
@@snazzydrewWhich is why we need no changes.
One thing I felt was good about SOD was the faction gatekeeping and no transfers. This kept the world PVP in balance. If they bring classic wow vanilla back this would be the one feature I would add. Also maybe a hardstop at level 30 or 40 for the first 4 weeks or some period of time.
just let WoW die and go play OSRS
Eww. Just go play Ragnarok online
@@Psychonaut165 No-one is playing that, OSRS is the way to go!
SOD is the worst version of WoW I’ve ever played
It was good the first few months then Blizzard ruined it.
Phase 1 was fun but then they started adding retail features and spells and it killed it.
We finish all the T11 in about 2.5 hours if we don't mess with heroics. The jump in difficulty between normals and heroics is extreme, so, while I expect most guilds that were successful in ICC can progress normals, Heroics require strong players in all 10 or 25 spots
TBC FRESH WHEN
Fuck tbc, classic+ is what we Want 🤩
Cause turtle wow, is the one true wow.
turtle wow is capped at 60 fps, in 2024 thats just a no
If it was, thered be more players on it. Last i checked, it had a couple thousand players. They should have way more as good as turtle wow is
@@Chakabaka no its not lol
Turtle , until blizz take legal action and you loose everything overnight! wooo
@@Psysso its been up since 2018
i get what you're saying but that's kind of a loser mindset lmao