Oneyplays jokingly guessed the dialogue in Forspoken by saying the most predictable and lame thing they could think of, and were shocked when they were right.
Don’t forget the part that leaked where the building caught fire and you couldn’t pickup the bag of money right in front of the character because you needed to get the cat on the other side of the room.
The issue is deeper. Call it what you will “yes sayers culture”, “toxic positivity”. The thing is many corporations have the core values and many had one which referred to “challenge” as something positive and wanted. Over the years many either remove it or reworded it in a way that means nothing. This is the real issue. If you have yes sayers, and anyone who challenges ideas, or states that something is not done right, or could be done better are label from “to critical” to “toxic”, and if you are not one happy employee with a smile you might be painting a target on your back for the next round of layoffs (which is cyclic - at least in tech industry). What happened with play testing? What happened with getting feedback and improving? What happened to checking the target groups (especially now with all the telemetry game companies have)? What happened to natural way of progress, which comes from challenging the status quo? If the Wright brothers accepted that patent office will reject their patents we would never have planes. They instead challenge the patent office view and push forward.
Ive never got wanting a 'yes man'. I would never want a yes man. For me it would just mean the thing i make ends up being bad, and everyone knows it, so your not getting the social benefit of making something good. Obviously dont be a dick, but dont just say 'everything is good' when its not.
In my experience as a writer, they never hire based on skill, only personality and credits. The best writers I've ever met all have the same thing in common; they come across like A-holes to corporate types. They're usually a bit weird and opinionated, perhaps even anti-social, yet their writing isn't just engaging, it's gripping and comedic. Think Ricky Jervais or Quentin Terentino, those are the good writers - Not the 30 year old woman who spent her entire career in school.
Some of the best modern fantasy writers today are women, i dont know what you're talking about. Shit, Ursula K Leguin is on the same level as Tolkien. Also, Ricky is a comedian and writes jokes, his shows had a whole team of writers and Tarantino is a living legend but writes movies, so not very apt comparison.
I think there's also a big info gap between the publishing industry and the outside world. A lot of media doesn't seem to understand that writing (even including multiple rewrites) is just the beginning. There's editing and reworking and continuity checking and diversity readers and proofreading and a thousand other steps that make the difference between an amateur writer with an interesting idea and an actual good novel that will make readers excited for more. Hiring "a writer" is just the first step.
I hear publishers are currently discriminatory against male authors lately. Hard to confirm since those doing it would naturally deny it, but that's the word going around anyway.
Reminder that obsedian got rid of the fonv lead writer on baseless accusations. They fired the one that made fonv peak. Just to show you how important they think writers are.
Chris Avellone (now cleared off charges and having even won a defamation lawsuit) wasn't lead but he had a significant impact in writing Fallout Van Buren which was adapted into FNVs story. Also the legend that wrote Planescape Torment. Then there's people like Amy Hennig that was forced out of Naughty Dog for not toeing the ideological line by Neil Druckman
"Why is it so hard for games with 150 million budget to hire 1 talented writer?" Because the management people think they are smart and talent, so they hire someone like them or they like and believe that this person is a smart and talented writer.
4 วันที่ผ่านมา +5
That would explain the KK curse. It will be generations before the possibility of good official Star Wars can be created because even if she were to die today, her hires/students live on. The purge will require generations of effort to remove her taint.
There's a small trend of posting videos entitled something like "When you don't pay your writers/artists." They don't seem to consider that money doesn't necessarily buy talent.
Don't forget that Forspoken used a consulting firm called Black Girl Gamers to make the dialog true-to-life to how modern day black girls talk. Now, I'm not gonna say that hiring a consulting firm to touch up dialog is INHERENTLY a bad idea. But it just shocks the hell out of me that BGG is still around with that albatross around their neck. Imagine your work being THE MAIN REASON a multi-million dollar, AAA game from a long-time beloved developer flopped horrendously. SO horrendously that your political rivals unironically use your work unedited to denigrate the talent of EVERYONE you associate with. And you STILL think you deserve a career in the gaming industry.
It will always fascinate me how Toby Fox is almost an all-in-one package except for art, but entire A-list studios cannot. Like as a writer, Toby Fox is great, and it isn’t even his main skill, his main skill he advertises if he is not working on his personal projects like Deltarune is his music, he will compose for other games and pop artists like Houshou Marine. They just can't keep up with him.
I think that's the difference. Toby doesn't think that his writing is exceptional, but those people have the audacity to think they are Pulitzer materials. Kinda like Duning Kruger effect.
The problem with the Fable protagonist, is that if you take a screenshot of them from the first Fable 4 trailer and put it next to a screenshot of Lily Nichol - the MC's face model, they look noticeably less attractive compared to the person they are supposed to be based on. The defending argument for it, is that the latest title is focusing on having an atypical hero / heroine, but the trailer had people worrying about there being no customization The argument that they were purposefully made uglier, is strengthened by the fact that Cal Setis looks almost identical to Cameron Monaghan - the MC's body model, but Fallen Order came out in 2019, so it is not a matter of technology being lacking to accurately scan their face for the characters.
The fact that bad writing happens everywhere does not excuse it happening here. We should demand better. If badly written games still make money, there's no reason for game companies to change.
@@slyngn7847 Hey, I'm all for bashing the Acolyte, that show was a hot pile of trash, but I don't think it cost them $2.9 BILLION. I heard that it had gone over the $400 Million budget it was given, which is still atrocious and should be ridiculed, but that is almost a whole order of magnitude difference there. TL DR; We don't have to lie about how shitty something is.
@@zackfritz9491I doubt 2 billion, but considering aggressive marketing and its cost (and not commonly reported on posted budgets), it may have gone over 1 billion
Out of touch writing and directing for games, movies, and shows. That’s the theme of the past couple of years, who knows how much longer we will have to deal with this.
And the even worse problem is: The writers themselves think they are talented, and therefore goes into the projects thinking they can do no wrong. When inevitable criticism comes their way, they act as if the people disliking their work are the ones who are wrong, out of touched, or bigots. Look at Veilguard for a good bad example;
To be honest. Is just higher ups looking at stuff like marvel, that makes billions, and say "do like that". Creating working conditions that have no room to contradict the boss, or be fired.
And even Marvel did it hiring the wrong people that tried to mimmick things without understanding why those things worked before. Even Carol Danvers being arrogant works; they did it in Avengers Assemble. They just had Steve and the plot show it's partly just bravado. The video essays on why Iron Man works but Iron Heart doesn't or the fourth wall breaks of Deadpool and She-Hulk. "But she talks to the audience" is the superficial part and ignores how Deadpool didn't just use it to vlog.
Forspoken didn't have "1 writer". It had 4 (not including any uncredited people), one of which was Amy Hennig, the main writer behind the Uncharted and Legacy of Kain series.
Without knowing their internal structure, though, we don't know if that's good or bad. Lots of films have multiple writers, one after the other, and many that go through this process are worse for it. I haven't played any of the games Hennig has written so I can't comment on her, but there's a reason why even the best games are described as good "... for a video game."
@cmlemmus494 Whether multiple writers is good or not is beside the point. I'm debunking the lie implied in the video that Forspoken had only one writer.
I had a closer look and she is apparently credited with "story concept". Similar case with another on the writing team, Gary Whitta. Odds are that the original concept was actually compelling, but then the writer(s) for characters and dialogue arsed it up.
Dragon Age Veilguard is a perfect example of out of touch writing. They let their trans director load the game with endless lectures about his own lifestyle rather than actual making a fantasy game. Then acted shocked when paying customers rejected it.
The people who get hired into these companies come from two camps however its the same type of parentage. They are told they are special, they can do anything and anyone who does not understand their artistic intellect are envious. Its people who have never lost or been told no and those who are get told no...well their parent just so happens to know a guy that knows a guy who is friends with the guy who pulls the purse strings.
The executives give the writer a checklist and tell them the script has to meet all of their requirements. This checklist is full of items that are focused tested to hell and back to the point that executives are certain they are guaranteed to make money. The actul quality of the script doesn't really matter as long as the checklist is met.
I've worked at game studios that hired bad writers and you are correct the guys at the top legit thought they were good writers even though the rest of us knew otherwise
I've heard there is also a problem where they won't hire a writer who is just a writer. Because if they just write than they're a waste of money once the writing is done. They expect all writers to also be able to do work coding for the game as well and if they can't the other devs will bully them out of the company.
Which is solved by having the writer move on to another internal project, do touch-ups, or just have writers as contractors that just go to the next paycheck.
I don't understand why writers aren't appreciated when some of the biggest games in the industry (Mass Effect comes to mind) succeed on the backs of, primarily, the writing. Like, those games are basically dead in the water without the excellent writing. For heaven's SAKE, how are writers undervalued yet artists are amazing left and right?
To be fair, the pacing of the dialogue in Forespoken was actually pretty good. They seemed to have had someone with a strong directorial vision during that embarrassing "I just did that" sequence. Even the back-and-forth between her and Cuff had a good cadence despite the words being lame and so derivative as to be trite. SOMEONE was skilled over there.
@@gazz3867could be, but it's hard to imagine her looking worse. I saw the opposite, where people tried to make her look better. Results were a bit encouraging.
You have to remember all AAA+ titles are made by committee. The game creators- the ones actually making the game, its assets, and its programming, are beholden to the whims of the officers of the company, the parent company, and it's investors. No matter how good of a writer it has, the game will be changed due the demands of the people who control the money. When those people tell the game director they want to see a more diverse cast or the game to have certain elements in it regardless of the setting or story of the game, they either do as told or they get fired and a new lead takes their place. The problem is not the people actually doing the work to make the game, its the hundreds of other people telling them what to do that they cannot ignore. The larger and more successful the company, the more people who have a say in what goes into a game.
I'm not so sure. Seeing Pagliarulo from Bethesda talk about his writing philosophy and seeing how much faith they have in him, I'm not sure it's all a matter of committee. I'm sure there are plenty of instances where what you said is true, but it's hard to tell to what extent.
@octavianpopescu4776 I pretty much agree with you. But keep in mind the social media for those writers and developers are closely monitored by the company and the investors. If their employees aren't holding to company policy or philosophy, they will get reprimanded or fired. I'm not saying that's the case for every overly woke creator, but I'm sure it applies to some if not most. I've worked in much less public facing companies that have strict social media posting guidelines for employees. If nothing else, the main hope I see for positive change is the ultimate decision maker has been and always will be money. No matter their agenda, once stock holders and investors start losing money, their priorities will shift from politics to their pocketbook. We are already starting to see this with companies like Bethesda and Ubisoft.
Worst than being out of touch is becoming out of touch like the Dragon Age writers. Many worked on past games writing solid story bits just to, for some reason, make absolute trash in Veilguard.
The problem isn't just with the writers; it's with the people hiring the writers. One big echo chamber. Hopefully the results of the election will bring people back to reality.
is say hiring is where everything went to shit. Having been in the workforce for 7 years now I've noticed the department that gets the most number of Nepo hires is HR. Cause in the minds of management that's the department that doesn't directly impact performance. Not even once considering that's the department that's supposed to hire competent people for EVERYTHING else. So you have a bunch of unqualified people hiring other unqualified people for stuff.
Game studios are becoming their very own echo chambers. Then once the game releases, you'd think that the bubble would burst on contact with reality and the outside world, but miraculously they always double down. Must be an ego thing, since they spent years making the game and now it's being mocked relentlessly, so they get defensive.
what part of the fable trailers character got photoshopped to look uglier? where? i dont remember anything like that. The trailer from a year ago has the ugly character, the one from 6 months ago got a pretty big face lift and it does look better, but the original character face looked absolutely terrible for a video game character.
well, when i tried this game i was on the first house you reach after leaving the city😂😂😂, then when open world show seeing how mobs look like a gathering to me and those dialogued uhg.... my game made the permanent sleep in that cottage😂😂😂😂
He was talking about woke stuff or stuff that gamers don't like in general. We don't like the uglification of characters, but in Fable's case, he says, we may have been exaggerating to make a point, whereas in Forespoken the unadulterated gameplay made the point for us.
I'm sorry but is Luke saying that it isn't actually the games developers that are making women uglier but so nerds in their basements doing it with photoshop instead?
No, not in general. He meant the Fable character who does legit look ugly in the presentation anyway. Maybe there are some who are making her even uglier. I hope they have a character creator though, because I liked Fable and it would be a shame if it had issues because of this.
Almost like DEI quotas are bad for writing. Damn who would have thought? oh and the women in games are ugly thing isnt silly. They literally admitted to it.
The problem for spoken had was making cutscenes for context dialog, its a great line to show her personality but it needed to be subtle, keeping me from playing for a few seconds on a scene like this just makes us focus on the animated dubbing and it looks cringe af
It's silly because it's meaningless and not actually an issue. It doesn't impact the quality of the game, and honestly you're a weirdo for throwing a tantrum when a game doesn't have a supermodel protagonist. Still plenty of games with attractive characters out there, who cares if some of them don't.
They hire literal fanfic writers because they're cheap, productive and all they fans unanimously agree the writing is top notch. Then outsider takes a look at it and sees absolute cringe fiesta. Most people who write for games has failed at pursuing literature career.
made me look at the clips. its not that the writers misunderstand the medium they are just bad. they dont try to tell a story they try to speak to a market segment. that first bit with the judge. the judge just 1:1 mom facsimile and the girls just a juvenile 15 yr old. it looks like they wanted to write a ya novel of games but its just very stilted.
They are trying to make ugly women a thing in western gaming. Horizon 2? Tla 2? Witcher 4? Bald Asian chick for naughty dog? POKEMON GO!? AFTER THE UPDATE SPECIFICALLY.
I think it interesting if look back the tv writers and game writers who used make good content but make bad content now if u over anylise their old work your rralise they allready were political they just kept shifting slowly over years till it became unbarable they slowly been pushing
Its just the Dunnig Kreuger Effect (however it's spelt). They literally lack the skill to understand they are bad, that's how little ability they hold in it. Combine this with writing not being the highest prestige part of making a movie or game and you get the situation we are in, where a lot of people are very good at *pretending* they are good writers and the suits having such little skill in writing that they can't tell its bad. Its a mess.
Good writers will never be hired by corporate, because corporate thinks good writers are rude assholes and weirdos. That only barely flew in the 80s and 90s, when the industry still had some functional amount of meritocracy (though it was deeply nepotistic). Today, with HR departments full of 35 year old women that own sixteen cats each? No chance. Do you really think Quentin Tarantino would have gotten any of his movies made, if he tried today? The world would not know his name.
They also don't want to pay what people are worth. Which is why the comic industry is in the situation it is now. They want people that can write great stories which will put the company back on the map but they want to pay them like they work at McDonald's.
and i downloaded it free,... forspoken was the first time in a long time i pirated a game coz the first game that really disappointed me which they said modernize is civ 6,... i played it in ps4, imshould have known it would be the same on pc😂😂😂 i bought it on steam hoping a little change, hence i opted pirating again before legitly buying games, which a smart way now😂😂😂 than gettign dupped
To be fair, we used to think the Nostalgia Critic was funny. While Forspoken is a lot of lazy Whedonesque humor, lazy Whedonesque humor was perfectly acceptable in MCU Phase 3. There was just one of those periodic culture shift where overnight paint-by-number hair metal bands became incredibly lame.
And seeing how this was co-written by a writer of Uncharted... Zero Punctuation was calling out the lame Whedonesque writing of that series 17 years ago.
I played Forspoken, dialogue was fine for what they wanted to convey. Ask yourself how would you react if you got isekai'd into a fantasy world and could suddenly do magic. You'd probably have 1 of 3 reactions, jovial, enthusiastic and cringey. Play it off cool like Jack Burton. Or be scared shitless.
Seems they hired all these bad « activist » writers all that the same time and we now see the end result. I think we may not see them in 2-3 years. They started their purge themselves
Referring to game devs and writers who have different opinions or world views than you as "activists" is so fucking cringe and embarrassing. You still have time to delete this.
Oneyplays jokingly guessed the dialogue in Forspoken by saying the most predictable and lame thing they could think of, and were shocked when they were right.
they had it rough
Their videos about this game were glorious to watch, they were dying inside and i was right there with them.
When your prediction is made in mockery and just for fun, but then found its then basically exactly true, must be painful.
Well if you read popular modern Isekai light novels, they are equally cringe.
@raychii7361 yeah but those aren't trying to be what they aren't
Don’t forget the part that leaked where the building caught fire and you couldn’t pickup the bag of money right in front of the character because you needed to get the cat on the other side of the room.
The issue is deeper. Call it what you will “yes sayers culture”, “toxic positivity”.
The thing is many corporations have the core values and many had one which referred to “challenge” as something positive and wanted. Over the years many either remove it or reworded it in a way that means nothing.
This is the real issue. If you have yes sayers, and anyone who challenges ideas, or states that something is not done right, or could be done better are label from “to critical” to “toxic”, and if you are not one happy employee with a smile you might be painting a target on your back for the next round of layoffs (which is cyclic - at least in tech industry).
What happened with play testing? What happened with getting feedback and improving? What happened to checking the target groups (especially now with all the telemetry game companies have)?
What happened to natural way of progress, which comes from challenging the status quo? If the Wright brothers accepted that patent office will reject their patents we would never have planes. They instead challenge the patent office view and push forward.
yep nobody told whoever wrote those forspoken lines, 'hey this is trash'
@@jb90467 You don't even need to be that blunt telling them "This is a very cliche line, keep the energy but you gotta change the presentation"
Ive never got wanting a 'yes man'. I would never want a yes man. For me it would just mean the thing i make ends up being bad, and everyone knows it, so your not getting the social benefit of making something good. Obviously dont be a dick, but dont just say 'everything is good' when its not.
In my experience as a writer, they never hire based on skill, only personality and credits. The best writers I've ever met all have the same thing in common; they come across like A-holes to corporate types. They're usually a bit weird and opinionated, perhaps even anti-social, yet their writing isn't just engaging, it's gripping and comedic. Think Ricky Jervais or Quentin Terentino, those are the good writers - Not the 30 year old woman who spent her entire career in school.
pretty much its the golf buddy's kid who needs a job, so the guy does his friend a favor just on the fact they do business with each other.
Now my attempts to become an author feel more realistic, as I am indeed an a-hole.
Some of the best modern fantasy writers today are women, i dont know what you're talking about. Shit, Ursula K Leguin is on the same level as Tolkien. Also, Ricky is a comedian and writes jokes, his shows had a whole team of writers and Tarantino is a living legend but writes movies, so not very apt comparison.
I think there's also a big info gap between the publishing industry and the outside world. A lot of media doesn't seem to understand that writing (even including multiple rewrites) is just the beginning. There's editing and reworking and continuity checking and diversity readers and proofreading and a thousand other steps that make the difference between an amateur writer with an interesting idea and an actual good novel that will make readers excited for more.
Hiring "a writer" is just the first step.
I hear publishers are currently discriminatory against male authors lately.
Hard to confirm since those doing it would naturally deny it, but that's the word going around anyway.
Reminder that obsedian got rid of the fonv lead writer on baseless accusations.
They fired the one that made fonv peak.
Just to show you how important they think writers are.
Chris Avellone (now cleared off charges and having even won a defamation lawsuit) wasn't lead but he had a significant impact in writing Fallout Van Buren which was adapted into FNVs story.
Also the legend that wrote Planescape Torment.
Then there's people like Amy Hennig that was forced out of Naughty Dog for not toeing the ideological line by Neil Druckman
And look at Obsidian now. A meager shadow of it's former self.
🎶you're out of touch🎶
🎶I'm out of time🎶
🎶But I'm out of my head when you're not around 🎶
You're listening to; Flash FM
"🎶I'm out of time🎶"
What the writers said 1 day away from their deadline with nothing good
"Why is it so hard for games with 150 million budget to hire 1 talented writer?" Because the management people think they are smart and talent, so they hire someone like them or they like and believe that this person is a smart and talented writer.
That would explain the KK curse.
It will be generations before the possibility of good official Star Wars can be created because even if she were to die today, her hires/students live on.
The purge will require generations of effort to remove her taint.
There's a small trend of posting videos entitled something like "When you don't pay your writers/artists." They don't seem to consider that money doesn't necessarily buy talent.
It does tho
@@JohnM-sw4sc If your hiring practices are sound, it can, which is why I said "doesn't necessarily."
@@JohnM-sw4sc Nope.
@@Archedgar then why pay for it
@@JohnM-sw4sc Because we're not socialists. This isn't 1930s germany.
Don't forget that Forspoken used a consulting firm called Black Girl Gamers to make the dialog true-to-life to how modern day black girls talk.
Now, I'm not gonna say that hiring a consulting firm to touch up dialog is INHERENTLY a bad idea. But it just shocks the hell out of me that BGG is still around with that albatross around their neck. Imagine your work being THE MAIN REASON a multi-million dollar, AAA game from a long-time beloved developer flopped horrendously. SO horrendously that your political rivals unironically use your work unedited to denigrate the talent of EVERYONE you associate with. And you STILL think you deserve a career in the gaming industry.
Reminder: twitterspeak people are too busy arguing on twitter to even play a videogame.
It will always fascinate me how Toby Fox is almost an all-in-one package except for art, but entire A-list studios cannot. Like as a writer, Toby Fox is great, and it isn’t even his main skill, his main skill he advertises if he is not working on his personal projects like Deltarune is his music, he will compose for other games and pop artists like Houshou Marine. They just can't keep up with him.
I think that's the difference. Toby doesn't think that his writing is exceptional, but those people have the audacity to think they are Pulitzer materials. Kinda like Duning Kruger effect.
The problem with the Fable protagonist, is that if you take a screenshot of them from the first Fable 4 trailer and put it next to a screenshot of Lily Nichol - the MC's face model, they look noticeably less attractive compared to the person they are supposed to be based on. The defending argument for it, is that the latest title is focusing on having an atypical hero / heroine, but the trailer had people worrying about there being no customization
The argument that they were purposefully made uglier, is strengthened by the fact that Cal Setis looks almost identical to Cameron Monaghan - the MC's body model, but Fallen Order came out in 2019, so it is not a matter of technology being lacking to accurately scan their face for the characters.
Friendly reminder that Rings of Power happened.
twice ^^
Reminder that Star Wars: The Acolyte happened and it cost $2.9 Billion(?!)
The fact that bad writing happens everywhere does not excuse it happening here. We should demand better. If badly written games still make money, there's no reason for game companies to change.
@@slyngn7847 Hey, I'm all for bashing the Acolyte, that show was a hot pile of trash, but I don't think it cost them $2.9 BILLION. I heard that it had gone over the $400 Million budget it was given, which is still atrocious and should be ridiculed, but that is almost a whole order of magnitude difference there.
TL DR; We don't have to lie about how shitty something is.
@@zackfritz9491I doubt 2 billion, but considering aggressive marketing and its cost (and not commonly reported on posted budgets), it may have gone over 1 billion
Out of touch writing and directing for games, movies, and shows. That’s the theme of the past couple of years, who knows how much longer we will have to deal with this.
And the even worse problem is: The writers themselves think they are talented, and therefore goes into the projects thinking they can do no wrong. When inevitable criticism comes their way, they act as if the people disliking their work are the ones who are wrong, out of touched, or bigots.
Look at Veilguard for a good bad example;
To be honest. Is just higher ups looking at stuff like marvel, that makes billions, and say "do like that". Creating working conditions that have no room to contradict the boss, or be fired.
And even Marvel did it hiring the wrong people that tried to mimmick things without understanding why those things worked before. Even Carol Danvers being arrogant works; they did it in Avengers Assemble. They just had Steve and the plot show it's partly just bravado. The video essays on why Iron Man works but Iron Heart doesn't or the fourth wall breaks of Deadpool and She-Hulk. "But she talks to the audience" is the superficial part and ignores how Deadpool didn't just use it to vlog.
Forspoken didn't have "1 writer". It had 4 (not including any uncredited people), one of which was Amy Hennig, the main writer behind the Uncharted and Legacy of Kain series.
Without knowing their internal structure, though, we don't know if that's good or bad. Lots of films have multiple writers, one after the other, and many that go through this process are worse for it. I haven't played any of the games Hennig has written so I can't comment on her, but there's a reason why even the best games are described as good "... for a video game."
@cmlemmus494 Whether multiple writers is good or not is beside the point. I'm debunking the lie implied in the video that Forspoken had only one writer.
I had a closer look and she is apparently credited with "story concept". Similar case with another on the writing team, Gary Whitta.
Odds are that the original concept was actually compelling, but then the writer(s) for characters and dialogue arsed it up.
There is absolutely no chance Amy Henning wrote any of Forspoken's dialogue. Unless she had a stroke, she's a great writer.
@@mattandrews2594 literally 15 seconds into the video, he says "writer, or writers".
Dragon Age Veilguard is a perfect example of out of touch writing. They let their trans director load the game with endless lectures about his own lifestyle rather than actual making a fantasy game. Then acted shocked when paying customers rejected it.
The people who get hired into these companies come from two camps however its the same type of parentage.
They are told they are special, they can do anything and anyone who does not understand their artistic intellect are envious. Its people who have never lost or been told no and those who are get told no...well their parent just so happens to know a guy that knows a guy who is friends with the guy who pulls the purse strings.
The executives give the writer a checklist and tell them the script has to meet all of their requirements. This checklist is full of items that are focused tested to hell and back to the point that executives are certain they are guaranteed to make money. The actul quality of the script doesn't really matter as long as the checklist is met.
In Fable female character really do look like this though, it's not photoshop.
I've worked at game studios that hired bad writers and you are correct
the guys at the top legit thought they were good writers even though the rest of us knew otherwise
If they just were honest and humble, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have mocked it as much.
Probably not.
I've heard there is also a problem where they won't hire a writer who is just a writer. Because if they just write than they're a waste of money once the writing is done. They expect all writers to also be able to do work coding for the game as well and if they can't the other devs will bully them out of the company.
Are they paying the writers by time?
Which is solved by having the writer move on to another internal project, do touch-ups, or just have writers as contractors that just go to the next paycheck.
I don't understand why writers aren't appreciated when some of the biggest games in the industry (Mass Effect comes to mind) succeed on the backs of, primarily, the writing. Like, those games are basically dead in the water without the excellent writing.
For heaven's SAKE, how are writers undervalued yet artists are amazing left and right?
This is the problem with doing Whedon/Marvel speak.
To be fair, the pacing of the dialogue in Forespoken was actually pretty good. They seemed to have had someone with a strong directorial vision during that embarrassing "I just did that" sequence. Even the back-and-forth between her and Cuff had a good cadence despite the words being lame and so derivative as to be trite.
SOMEONE was skilled over there.
Those writers think writing in Marvel movies are great... This is what you get...
That first lot of dialogue sounds like it came straight from a Royal Road LitRPG with a protagonist who is supposedly funny.
LOL no, the Fable character looks that bad. It's from the trailer dude, just watched it again now to reaffirm it. Give better examples.
Maybe that was the joke? Because their "real" model looked like someone photoshopped it into some kind of mutant.
@@gazz3867could be, but it's hard to imagine her looking worse. I saw the opposite, where people tried to make her look better. Results were a bit encouraging.
You have to remember all AAA+ titles are made by committee. The game creators- the ones actually making the game, its assets, and its programming, are beholden to the whims of the officers of the company, the parent company, and it's investors. No matter how good of a writer it has, the game will be changed due the demands of the people who control the money. When those people tell the game director they want to see a more diverse cast or the game to have certain elements in it regardless of the setting or story of the game, they either do as told or they get fired and a new lead takes their place. The problem is not the people actually doing the work to make the game, its the hundreds of other people telling them what to do that they cannot ignore. The larger and more successful the company, the more people who have a say in what goes into a game.
I'm not so sure. Seeing Pagliarulo from Bethesda talk about his writing philosophy and seeing how much faith they have in him, I'm not sure it's all a matter of committee. I'm sure there are plenty of instances where what you said is true, but it's hard to tell to what extent.
@octavianpopescu4776 I pretty much agree with you. But keep in mind the social media for those writers and developers are closely monitored by the company and the investors. If their employees aren't holding to company policy or philosophy, they will get reprimanded or fired. I'm not saying that's the case for every overly woke creator, but I'm sure it applies to some if not most. I've worked in much less public facing companies that have strict social media posting guidelines for employees. If nothing else, the main hope I see for positive change is the ultimate decision maker has been and always will be money. No matter their agenda, once stock holders and investors start losing money, their priorities will shift from politics to their pocketbook. We are already starting to see this with companies like Bethesda and Ubisoft.
Worst than being out of touch is becoming out of touch like the Dragon Age writers. Many worked on past games writing solid story bits just to, for some reason, make absolute trash in Veilguard.
No. They know _exactly_ what kind of person they are hiring.
Because big G forces video game companies to do it.
The problem isn't just with the writers; it's with the people hiring the writers. One big echo chamber. Hopefully the results of the election will bring people back to reality.
is say hiring is where everything went to shit. Having been in the workforce for 7 years now I've noticed the department that gets the most number of Nepo hires is HR. Cause in the minds of management that's the department that doesn't directly impact performance. Not even once considering that's the department that's supposed to hire competent people for EVERYTHING else. So you have a bunch of unqualified people hiring other unqualified people for stuff.
Game studios are becoming their very own echo chambers.
Then once the game releases, you'd think that the bubble would burst on contact with reality and the outside world, but miraculously they always double down.
Must be an ego thing, since they spent years making the game and now it's being mocked relentlessly, so they get defensive.
The fable character is ugly. It's not even a question.
what part of the fable trailers character got photoshopped to look uglier? where? i dont remember anything like that. The trailer from a year ago has the ugly character, the one from 6 months ago got a pretty big face lift and it does look better, but the original character face looked absolutely terrible for a video game character.
Luke, I think I speak for everyone when I tell you to “Slay Queen!”
well, when i tried this game i was on the first house you reach after leaving the city😂😂😂, then when open world show seeing how mobs look like a gathering to me and those dialogued uhg.... my game made the permanent sleep in that cottage😂😂😂😂
I demand cat reveal
This means there is no talent anywhere, not just the writer and people around the writers. Devoid.
I played the demo. I’d didn’t look right, even the gaming mechanics are bad in combat
Out of touch writing.
Talks about how people don't like the face of Fable's character...
He was talking about woke stuff or stuff that gamers don't like in general. We don't like the uglification of characters, but in Fable's case, he says, we may have been exaggerating to make a point, whereas in Forespoken the unadulterated gameplay made the point for us.
Well...im glad us making fun of them is getting through
Seeing that clip made me go “blech” I see it now. BTW I love your studio set up.
I'm sorry but is Luke saying that it isn't actually the games developers that are making women uglier but so nerds in their basements doing it with photoshop instead?
No, not in general. He meant the Fable character who does legit look ugly in the presentation anyway. Maybe there are some who are making her even uglier. I hope they have a character creator though, because I liked Fable and it would be a shame if it had issues because of this.
Almost like DEI quotas are bad for writing. Damn who would have thought? oh and the women in games are ugly thing isnt silly. They literally admitted to it.
The problem for spoken had was making cutscenes for context dialog, its a great line to show her personality but it needed to be subtle, keeping me from playing for a few seconds on a scene like this just makes us focus on the animated dubbing and it looks cringe af
0:45 no we are not, being in denial about it won't help anyone.
It's silly because it's meaningless and not actually an issue. It doesn't impact the quality of the game, and honestly you're a weirdo for throwing a tantrum when a game doesn't have a supermodel protagonist. Still plenty of games with attractive characters out there, who cares if some of them don't.
They hire literal fanfic writers because they're cheap, productive and all they fans unanimously agree the writing is top notch. Then outsider takes a look at it and sees absolute cringe fiesta. Most people who write for games has failed at pursuing literature career.
made me look at the clips. its not that the writers misunderstand the medium they are just bad. they dont try to tell a story they try to speak to a market segment. that first bit with the judge. the judge just 1:1 mom facsimile and the girls just a juvenile 15 yr old. it looks like they wanted to write a ya novel of games but its just very stilted.
They are trying to make ugly women a thing in western gaming. Horizon 2? Tla 2? Witcher 4? Bald Asian chick for naughty dog? POKEMON GO!? AFTER THE UPDATE SPECIFICALLY.
The writers tell everyone they are great and leadership buys it.
I think it interesting if look back the tv writers and game writers who used make good content but make bad content now if u over anylise their old work your rralise they allready were political they just kept shifting slowly over years till it became unbarable they slowly been pushing
Mortal Kombat faces what happened? They are making them uglier
Even some german female and male diskiled the writing during their playthrough the said the dialogs are cringe at that time.
Its just the Dunnig Kreuger Effect (however it's spelt). They literally lack the skill to understand they are bad, that's how little ability they hold in it. Combine this with writing not being the highest prestige part of making a movie or game and you get the situation we are in, where a lot of people are very good at *pretending* they are good writers and the suits having such little skill in writing that they can't tell its bad.
Its a mess.
Fabled allways had ugly woman fable is a play on british stereotypesalot of characters have bug igoy teeth in fable
Good writers will never be hired by corporate, because corporate thinks good writers are rude assholes and weirdos. That only barely flew in the 80s and 90s, when the industry still had some functional amount of meritocracy (though it was deeply nepotistic). Today, with HR departments full of 35 year old women that own sixteen cats each? No chance. Do you really think Quentin Tarantino would have gotten any of his movies made, if he tried today? The world would not know his name.
They also don't want to pay what people are worth. Which is why the comic industry is in the situation it is now. They want people that can write great stories which will put the company back on the map but they want to pay them like they work at McDonald's.
What does cat ladies have to do with this? Weird association.
@@sagephilbecause most people in positions of power in the entertainment industry are 30 yo ladies with 16 cats
Toxic positivity.
I'm not even sure i have heard of this game.
KITTY
and i downloaded it free,... forspoken was the first time in a long time i pirated a game coz the first game that really disappointed me which they said modernize is civ 6,... i played it in ps4, imshould have known it would be the same on pc😂😂😂 i bought it on steam hoping a little change, hence i opted pirating again before legitly buying games, which a smart way now😂😂😂 than gettign dupped
👍!!!
I'm sure they picked the most talented gay, black, trans, disabled writer they could checkbox...
To be fair, we used to think the Nostalgia Critic was funny.
While Forspoken is a lot of lazy Whedonesque humor, lazy Whedonesque humor was perfectly acceptable in MCU Phase 3. There was just one of those periodic culture shift where overnight paint-by-number hair metal bands became incredibly lame.
And seeing how this was co-written by a writer of Uncharted... Zero Punctuation was calling out the lame Whedonesque writing of that series 17 years ago.
I played Forspoken, dialogue was fine for what they wanted to convey. Ask yourself how would you react if you got isekai'd into a fantasy world and could suddenly do magic. You'd probably have 1 of 3 reactions, jovial, enthusiastic and cringey. Play it off cool like Jack Burton. Or be scared shitless.
Seems they hired all these bad « activist » writers all that the same time and we now see the end result. I think we may not see them in 2-3 years. They started their purge themselves
No - they will proliferate until this is all we know. Accept garbage or touch grass - those will be the only options.
It is possible to be an activist and a good writer, take disco elysium for example. These guys just sucks at writing activist or not.
@@Steir12 yes absolutely and tbh they are not real activists. wanactivists is probably a better word for it
Referring to game devs and writers who have different opinions or world views than you as "activists" is so fucking cringe and embarrassing. You still have time to delete this.
@@kinomanssky The word you are loooking for is "antivist". People that only tell other people to work for the change.