@@dcypher3657 It's not about honorable opposition. It's about escalating. Fear is not a deterent. If we torture people, we just create more monsters that want to kill us. I don't know what the right answer is, but a world full of monsters who hate us and want to drag us down doesn't sound fun. Sounds like we should stop fucking with them.
Angie J the difference is we’re civilised people with morals. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to wrap a crowbar round a terrorists jaw, however if the government grabbed one of them and skinned them alive starting at the toes they’re would be millions crying “They’re still people!!” “They were forced to do it!!!” “But but human rights!!” As far as I care they lost their rights the moment they stripped someone else of theres. If you’ll happily burn an innocent man alive you’re not a person, you’re dirt that’s aware of its surroundings.
@@dcypher3657 It's not about what they do. It's about what the US government does. If it has standards and principles, it has to live by them. According to Title 18 of the US State Code, torture is "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control", and if you read on, the threat of pain of suffering falls under that definition. Waterboarding is the threat of physical harm, which causes mental suffering, and is undeniably torture. Now, the question becomes: does the US government commit acts of torture? If the answer is no, then there should be no waterboarding. If the answer is "no, unless...", then it's yes. Because there is no such thing as suspending your principles - otherwise they're simply not principles anymore. If you think what ISIS (or domestic right-wing terrorists for that matter) does, should directly result in whatever "means to an end" can be put to use, then that's a position to choose. But then you're saying: the US government practices torture to get information in certain cases. The implication of that is that the US would immediately have to get off their high horse on any other human rights subject, and has no moral highground anymore to tell other nations what to do. And I don't think the US government is ready to relinquish that moral highground. THAT'S the ballgame. Not kindergarten logic of the familiar format of "yes but he...!!!"
Fun fact: Christopher Hitchens was a staunch, stubborn advocate for waterboarding, until he volunteered to be waterboarded to prove his beliefs. He thereafter became staunchly opposed- and this happens often. The people okay with it are people who have never been victims.
@@username_pending1328 Intelligence or a lack thereof doesn't automatically move in tandem with morality or empathy and intelligent people are still able to get things wrong
One of Joe Rogans finest Moments. He addresses a delicate issue respectfully, without raising his voice or showing annoyance. Raising concerns patiently and eventually showing your opposite your point of view without embarrassing them isn’t easy.
@Exec Utize And to judge the level of ridiculousness of someone's opinion does not require any level of expertise or experience from your point of view? Everyone here seems to mock his missing level of humbleness- ever looked to the mirror?
@Exec Utize If you want to see a person who holds ridiculous beliefs, change those ridiculous beliefs, you don't mock them. Mockery is the language of war. You listen, you converse and you get the individual to open their mind by speaking their "language". Then you offer the better perspective (if you have that perspective) This is how Jacque Fresco and Daryl Davis converted hundreds of KKK members to see rationality (separate endeavors by those two men)
@@ZeroFucksLeft Exactly. If you mock them you will just cause them to go on the defensive and they will shut themselves off from even considering your point of view. They will stubbornly hold on to their beliefs just because you mocked them. If you want to stand a chance at causing someone to change their beliefs you have to give them a way to do it without feeling like they are "losing" an argument if they give in. You have to be respectful, and give them the time to consider whatever it is that you have to say, and if they agree with it, and it persuades them to change their belief, they may admit to it, but only if it doesn't make them feel completely undermined.
Surely getting "tortured" by people you trust and you know mentally there is no harm coming to you, is not the same as being strapped on a table in a room with people you know have 0 respect for you and your life.
DeliriumzzZ are we also ignoring the fact that you don’t know when you’re going to be released, if ever. That’s huge. Not only are you being tortured but you could be a prisoner for a year and be tortured every day, and this guy just says that doesn’t work lol okay
DeliriumzzZ I agree , I am curious though as to how you would deal with scenarios overseas when dealing with these said people who are not in any way reflective of a human being. They are the lowest of the low: Unspeakable and horrific crimes. It is very hard to have these discussions when no one really understands truly how things need to be handled when American lives are at stake. I think this psychological abuse that you speak of is a product of the capture in its entirety. Why put emphasis of psychological torture on one act when the whole entire process is what is causing this degradation and deep rooted psychological damage?
Honestly, they are trained to protect American lives. Which is what he repeats over and over again. If he died during torture from a terrorist group, then at least it was him instead of hundreds if not thousands of Americans.
He knew he could pull the rag off which is why he was calm. That sense of being restricted is totally part of the whole experience and plays a big part in it
@@andrewdeen1 He basically made a fool of himself. And yes to Amarathros! If he wants to prove a point like this which is impossible unless you're in the thick of it with no safety line which he had then get captured and see how your brain responds compared to knowing for a fact you're safe. This is nonsense.
Vsauce has a good MindField video on fear, and he concluded that the most fearful a human can ever be is through suffocation, combined with a lack of control. Emphasis on the lack of control.
MikeCharlieAlpha vsauce has access to thousands of different veterans and tools me and you have never heard of. Because he’s not a veteran doesn’t mean he can’t understand what people fear the most.
UTubeCorruptAntiFreeSpeechLiberalCo You sound like a moron. Doesn’t seem like you’ve ever watched a mind field series in your life, so you have no right to comment on it. Every episode is made using experts.
Pouring water on someone's face isn't waterboarding. Strapping a person to a board, tilting the board with the head lower, putting a soaked rag in their mouth, putting another soaked rag on their face, pouring huge amounts of water on their chest, (even hold their nose closed), and pour water on the face and mouth. You keep doing it until their lungs almost fill with water. They drown and you revive them, punch them in the stomach to help them expel the water as one way to do so (often ribs are cracked). You keep doing that for hours and hours, days and days. This does cause one to say anything that they think that you want to hear to make it stop. People that test it often aren't doing it the real way. Plus you know that it will stop because it's just a test. You know that it won't last hours or days. You know for a fact that medical attention is on hand. People care if you lose consciousness or die.
@@jaymonkey1456 "World Police" Is a title that came from the US Military's invasion of other countries and calling it a "police action" so that Congress doesn't have to formally declare war.
Having your teeth pulled out just eliminates any possibility of getting tooth ache in the future. It's actually quite helpful and I'll definitely be requesting it should I be kidnapped.
He's saying that waterboarding is very tame in comparison to other ways they could torture you and he's right. There are much worse things than waterboarding
@@elocore1702 how extreme the waterboarding is, is up to the people doing it. im sure i could turn it into torture, hell, i could keep dumping water onto someone untill they drown.
who knows? As if America doesn’t kill innocent civilians including women and children with drone strikes? Pretty sure there’s plenty of evil to go around.
@@oxitocin7718, it's to simulate drowning. Plus they're gonna beat you, spit on you, lock you away in a cage. Walk you on a leash and collar like a dog. Feed you the bare minimum.
True, but the real point is that waterboarding is not actually "physically" harming the individual, just giving them the sense of being drowned. So it is arguably more humane than torture where bodily harm is done. And it's war, fight to win or don't fight. All bets are off.
K2 Mally I guess you are joking. As far as I know, they stopped executing people in prison, because the new toll known as DNA. Another thing I think he’s becoming a monster fighting other monsters. War never determined who’s right but who’s left. ( quote Bertrand Russell) humanity has shown over centuries that we are able to justify any kind of violence,especially when money, religion and politics is above common sense. We need to evolve all of us to become better humans. Normally I’m a positive person, but due to humanity I don’t think we ever will get away from violence solutions. Let the Middle East be,and other insane countries. And boycott these to a grade they need to evolve from insane suppressing leaders. And we should stay away from them ASAP
@@mzc102908 They truly are patriots of completely different magnitude than an average person. Doing speedball is the ultimate patriot move and anyone who isn't supporting our brave troops by buying coke and heroin is a russian agent.
Next week: Tim Kennedy on broken bones: Tim: Breaking a bone is not an injury. Joe: How is a broken bone not an injury? Tim: Look, when I was risking my life for this country, I saw people get their limbs blown off, I saw people get shot in the face, I saw people get crushed to death. Joe: How does that relate at all? Tim: It's just a broken bone. Getting decapitated is an injury. Breaking a bone is not.
Tim is obviously a brave guy and a warrior but either through a bit of a deficit in intelligence or extreme bias due to his chosen profession and traumas, he is ironically one of the last people you'd want making these sorts of estimations and decisions. Water boarding is unequivocally, unambiguously torture. Giving someone the sensation of drowning is torture. You can subjectively say it's not as bad as chopping someone's finger off, or whatever, but it's clearly torture.
Probably true, it's not just running water over people's heads, it's literally drowning them but also keeping them alive. It's def. Torture, just not as gruesome
Dude this guy, Tim Kennedy, is ABSOLUTELY what Nietzsche was talking about when he said "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
Exactly was wondering if anyone else came to this conclusion. He thinks he is virtuous but really he is no better than those he despises and you can tell from the hate and resentment in his voice.
Water boarding isn’t torture I was waterboarded in Afghanistan by enemy troops and they couldn’t break me. Waterboarding feels like you’re drowning but there isn’t no lasting physical effect
If a man with strong resolve can withstand something like waterboarding, and that's one of the factors that decides whether or not something is torture, then you could apply that to any kind of enhanced interrogation techniques. A man, with strong enough resolve could take beatings, starvations, nails driven through their hands, etc. so does that not count as torture either?
Those aren't even close to the same unless you are trying to say that a man with a strong resolve can survive being starved, or his resolve can make him impervious to nails. The question was never about if he would crack and give up information, it was that the physical sensation is not as bad as people make it out to be and it's more about your mentality. Driving nails through your hands or surviving on zero calories is not about your mentality. The only thing waterboarding actually does is scare someone into thinking they might die. Let me repeat. The ONLY thing waterboarding does is scare someone. That is what he showed. Starving, beating, or nails through the hands is not just scaring someone. THAT is the difference between torture and this.
@@rickh5088 Starving someone and splitting their nails also is not killing them though. Why draw the line there? Can I pull a gun, rack it back and start blasting next to the a prisoner's ear? I'm not killing them, I'm just scaring them. Can I pull a knife out on their throat and tell them I'm going to skin their kids alive whilst showing pictures of them? Is this even all worth it, to burn our reputation over this? I get that this stuff is sensitive intelligence, but 10 years later I would hope to have evidence of how many lives they saved with this. If so, if they present it, then we would all be more convinced this is the way to go forward (minus some die hard moralists).
the right dose of LSD in the right setting is one of the best experiences you'll ever have, but if you're first time is a high dose, you're stressed and mentally not in a good place to begin with, you can have a seriously bad trip.
If you think you need to torture someone because you truly think It'd save lives then just say so. I would respect that far better then trying to downplay it.
Exactly. Stand by what you believe. He also said vets who have PTSD are pussies and should just suck it up, and then backtracked. STAND BY what you say, Tim. Is that so hard, being the supreme alpha male you are?
it is about PR and the reputation of the USA. Everybody knows they are full of shit and monsters but if they say they don't torture it just sounds better.
yeah, my issue is that a lot of the people involved in the interrogation program said that the people who were tortured weren't giving any usable. if you were getting good information, it would be messed up, but I could live with it
@Chris M they are ALSO monsters. But at least they don't claim to spread freedom and democracy. They are pretty honest about the fact that they are terrorists and full of shit.
I'd say piloting a plane into a building must involve some sort of strong conviction. And rest assured, if Joe was getting waterboarded for hours he'd admit to being vegan by the end of it.
Yeah and talking as though the plane can bring down the building and everything in response is by the Geneva convention means he has no convictions. Joined military to kill nothing else.
Not really if they are hoped up on drugs like the kamikazee pilots. They would take a bunch of drugs before their suicide missions. That doesn’t take a lot of convictions if you don’t really know what’s going on. But the planning phase of that had to be insane
@@jackjon7763 I don't think so. You would still know you're about to die and deal with it exactly the same way. Exactly the same convictions would be required to take the drug for the same purpose. Not that there's any reason to think they used drugs anyway. It's very difficult to fly a plane and do all that happened before that
I got voluntarily waterboarded in highschool by some swim team buddies just for fun, four of them held me down on a bench so I wouldn't thrash while two poured the water. It was one of the worst experiences in my life, like if hell was underwater, but the moment they stopped I stood up and acted like it was nothing, all because I didn't want to look like a pussy in front of everyone, even today when it comes up in conversation I act as if it was nothing. I can tell this guy is doing the exact same thing.
Imagine thinking as nerd who was on the swim team you can even come close to comparing yourself to an ex marine that was deployed 20+ times. Shut up lmao
I love when he brings up that he is so much tougher than Crowder because Crowder couldn't handle it, but this guy is military, Crowder isn't. That doesn't make Crowder a coward. What a terrible argument he made.
I’m so glad joe challenged him and fractured his ego a little bit pointing out how he could never understand if he hasn’t been captured on enemy soil, and how he cannot tapout in a street fight
As clever as Joe Rogan is ... he is definitely not nearly as clever as Tim Kennedy when it comes to war It's just opinions mate And to be honest when you want an opinion on war would you rather ask a special forces soldier that has served 18 years or a podcast host ?
@@rubendutoit586 It's not just opinions, Joe challenged his argument of "I was waterboarded and I was fine" by saying that he might've been fine because he knew what was coming and that he was in a safe environment. Maybe if he was truly captured in a foreign soil without any assurances of his safety, who knows what would've happened. The point is, an experiment in a controlled environment can never be the same as the reality and you don't need to be an expert in any field to make the argument, you just need logic.
@@jimkohi5611 I totally agree with you in that regard Only thing is not me, you , joe rogan or anyone in this comment section knows what a green beret soldier would do in that kind of environment should they be captured only they will know 🙂 You're not talking about average people here remember that It's so easy to sit at home typing on your keyboard saying this and saying that... these guys don't go through 15 months of training for nothing I get what you are saying... but You just need some "logic" as you would say to know you're not a green beret and your someone who sits at home with a pack of doritos on his keyboard and you'll never in your lifetime be the man Tim Kennedy is or any soldier is for that matter so don't argue with how his mind works I respect Joe Rogan a lot but he's not a special forces soldier and he does not know how their minds work or how they have been trained and fact is he never will nor will you or me so nobody can say Tim is wrong
@@rubendutoit586 bro that argument is so dumb. Is the US the only country with tough soldiers? Like this guy is sucking his own dixk and America’s dixk talking about “every guy that has ever snitched from water boarding is a coward” Lmaoo like the insanity to think none of these men who have been born and raised in fucking war zones are as tough as someone raised in the US is idiotic beyond measures. And for you to think that every green Beret is some fucking beast is also idiotic. You don’t know what will break you mentally until you’re there. There is no amount of prep you can do. Unless this man has been captured and tortured himself, at least ONE time then he’s also talking without knowing wtf he’s talking about. Trying to compare an experiment where he literally had to sign a waiver to being captured in war 😂😂😂😂
"Here's the deal, Jack, if a couple hundred thousand innocents need to die and thousands of completely innocent bystanders need to get tortured to calm our violent Islamophobia, you gotta do what you gotta do"
He is a psychopath. He knows what he needs to say to get ahead in his career and he doesnt give one single fk if it is the truth or not. As long as it advances him, he will do or say anything necessary.
Saker he speaks many languages and could literally covertly replace a government in a foreign country in a number of months with a small team. “Thick as pig shit” must be referring to his muscle mass because that’s the only way that description would fit. Meanwhile, you’re probably nothing more than a lump in a chair typing out BS because your anonymity makes you think you’re cool 😆
Snaggle Toothed These radical groups in the Middle East are the ones killing innocent people. And I’m sure Tim has merked a few terrorist scum bags in his time with special forces. That’s a fact, quit being a little 🐶
The misunderstanding is that waterboarding is not just pouring water on someone's face. It's primarily a form of psychological torture with a physical component, similar to sleep deprivation or confinement (3-foot cube). I've seen the results of real waterboarding and it's torture. One person committed suicide because he couldn't live with the nightmares. Another has trouble drinking (any liquid) because he always thinks he's going to drown. These are ex-military... Rangers, etc. and ex-State Department, as well as professional civilians. They are not cowards and they are not wusses... they've been tortured. The person has to believe that you're not going to stop until you tell them what they want to hear. The person needs to inhale some water and keep on pouring. You have to know that there is a very real chance that you will die. That's waterboarding. It leaves people seriously messed up in the head and unable to function as a normal person... usually for life. I understand what Kennedy is saying, but Rogan gets it... The whole point is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. It might not be physically scarring, but it's still torture. You'll say anything to make it stop when you believe that it won't stop until you talk (or die). It's worth noting here that there are plenty of ways to torture someone physically that leave no visible marks or other physical evidence. This whole argument against waterboarding being torture is simply the CIA and State Department wanting to be able to say that waterboarding is not technically torture so that they can feel like they're not wrong in using it. It's like justifying stealing by redefining it as "borrowing indefinitely." Similarly, the buzzword "Discomfort" is just another way of saying "Pain" that allows torturers to justify what they do in their own minds. It's worth noting that prominent English dictionaries as well as international organizations do not specify that torture must specifically involve physical pain... torture can be either mental or physical. Most commonly, as in the case of waterboarding, torture is a combination of mental (psychological) and physical discomfort/pain.
@@cosmicbilly saving lives and helping people is possible without committing war crimes buddy. If you want to say committing war crimes is necessary to actually help people, then say that. But don’t try to hide behind this morality bullshit. War crimes are not moral. Period.
@@Livingston_Seagull Why can't cosmic hide behind morality bs? You hide behind fake laughter. I think the only moral path is to avoid war at any reasonable cost. Once at war the goal is to win. Anything else is an out and out lie.
KingGrizzly 78 lol it’s not taking anything out of context. That’s why he supports torture because he has done it. Every other piece of ‘context’ in this video is him trying to justify his actions. I guarantee if he was caught and tortured he would sound more like John McCain than Hideki Tojo.🤔
Hayden Johnson didn’t he say that torture doesn’t work because at some point the person being tortured will tell you anything you want to hear, even if it isn’t true
Well they also burned out their eyes with lit cigarettes and shoved bamboo splinters under their fingernails. As Kennedy said, it becomes torture when you start adding things on top of them
he tries to downplay the torture aspect by saying "we're just pouring water on their face." That's like saying that all you do when shocking someone with electrodes is "we're just flipping a switch." They're inducing the panic fear of drowning on someone. Torture. And if anyone did this to American soldiers who were captured, we'd immediately call it that.
If the late Christopher Hitchens (who volunteered to get waterboarded) is to be believed, it doesn't just induce the fear of drowning. At a point, you actually start drowning.
I think Kennedy talked about that. It sounded like things MUCH worse than waterboarding were happening. Thats the point. These animals needed to be stopped and we needed information. It worked and the animals were not physically harmed.
Joe: "So you knew you were completely safe during the whole thing?" Tim: "Yes" Joe: "So you agree that this is different than a real situation?" Tim: "But that's beside the point" Okay buddy
Tom Evans that control is kinda irrelevant when dealing with the torture though. The same physical sensation is felt, and the reaction to it doesnt really matter, because either way youre not really going to be damaged from it
Tom Evans and realistically I don’t think any of these people think that theyre going to be drowned to death. Drowning is an inefficient, relatively pain-free and simply ridiculous way to kill someone, especially when the water is being poured on you. Its a scare tactic at best, and any logical person could see that
I'm so impressed by Joe's ability as an interviewer... and he doesn't let Tim off the hook... discussing John McCain's experiences was brilliant to highlight why torture is not ok, morally... if we do this, we are no better than they are... and that's not ok
War crimes? When are you fucking pussies going to realize that there are a lot of really fucked up people in this world and that when dealing with these animals you need to use extreme measures? I was told in basic training all about the things we couldn't do when dealing with the enemy. The hell with that. If it's a choice between me and that human piece of shit who's trying to kill me, you can bet I would have used any and all means available to make sure it wasn't me. Both you and chig bungus need to grow a pair and man the fuck up.
It’s moronic to euthanize people who brutally murder other people? K. Let em mosey on back to what they’re doing. Training to kill westerners. Fuckin brilliant. Stupid democrat.
s a he’s been in war countless number of times and if u ever heard his war stories he tells a story where around 300 fighters surrounded him and his team. They were in a gunfight for 3 days and lost guys and everyone of them thought they were going to die. Imagine being in that situation having to fight and kill people, knowing your going to die and also seeing your best friends get killed right in front of your eyes. In my opinion that is torture. He said he’s seen people get tortured and if u see that u can still have feeling about how that person is feeling. He probably is more qualified to talk about this that 99.9% if people alive
Well... I mean not "literally everyone", since Kennedy tried it and didn't change his mind. What's adorable is that he gives no credit to the fact that he's a highly trained special forces operator. Like he's not in the 1% of the (physically and mentally) toughest people in the world. Also, we tried Japanese soldiers for war crimes, for waterboarding American soldiers in WWII. Worked on them, so I guess they were "weak cowards" too.
I believe that water boarding is torture but mental torture, kinda like putting someone in complete isolation but not as bad because that person is able to keep their sanity, not physical and water boarding tricks the mind into believing you can’t breathe even thought you’re able to so in turn it makes you your own torturer
A Aizner Tim Kennedy wasn’t waterboarded. All he did was hold his breath while his friends poured water on his face and stopped every 15 seconds. He needs to be strapped up head angled down rag on face constant flow of water being poured on his face for 10mins
It’s not just someone spilling water on you. The point of it is to simulate drowning. He’s the only one I’ve ever heard from who’s been water boarded who says it’s not torture. Sure there are worse forms but he clearly did it just to be able to say it’s not torture.
"Simulating" drowning? Sorry...it "IS" drowning. If the waterboarding was not halted...you would drown. That's not a simulation...it's controlled drowning that can be started at stopped on demand.
@@birish21 Hey Stupid! www.mediamatters.org/national-review/nros-hemingway-gets-history-wrong-accusing-begala-botching-facts What was that? Did you say something? crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction-we-actually-did-execute-j
Waterboarding was a small portion of japanese war crimes against POWs (good example is decapitation contest) and that was over 60 years ago. Opinions do change with time, not saying youre wrong but using a different era for ideas now isnt 100% solid
Its the same reason why people cheat on the spouse without them knowing and constantly accuse them of cheating. Its because they believe they are such a great person that if they are doing this and they are so great, tge other person has to be doing 10x worse cuase they aren't as great or moral as you are.... thats sociopathic behavior
I want your honest opinion because I am Curious. With enemies like Isis do you think a methode with our morals in line is the apropriate way to handle these people? (This is no attack I just wan't to know opinions from the other side) (bad english)
Cocky Rooster he said “it isn’t torture because it doesn’t work”, and then went on to say “torture in general doesn’t work” and then went on to say “torture works on these terrorists cause they’re pussies”. Nothing about what he said made any fucking sense
@@Itssconnorr exactly. Its complicated. Whats torture for you may not be torture for the next guy...and as rogan said, pouring water on some one doestn do permanent damage, it just makes them uncomfortable....who cares...
Cocky Rooster it’s not complicated at all, drowning someone against their will is torture. Nobody’s getting a hard on from being waterboarded, it’s torture and I’m surprised people still debate it like it’s not.
@N.A.R Channel So he's in shape and wanted to prove himself. Now he's god? Can do no wrong? Lol this guy would get DESTROYED in any debate club in the world.
@N.A.R Channel i'm just saying. not necessarily in the case of tim kennedy, but as a general rule. being a green beret is a hell of a thing, but it is still possible to be an asshole. most sf guys are alright, some are dicks
Any practice designed to make the victim feel like they are in danger constitutes torture. That’s why mock executions are a form of psychological torture
I don’t think terrorists or mass murderers are capable of victimhood. Meaning when you commit atrocities you’re essentially turning in your human card. Torture to save lives=moral. Torture for punishment(with due process)=moral. Torture for entertainment=immoral.
“As a form of torture, waterboarding became illegal under the law of war with the adoption of the third Geneva Convention of 1929, which required that prisoners of war be treated humanely, and the third and fourth Geneva Conventions of 1949, which explicitly prohibited the torture and cruel treatment of prisoners of war and civilians, respectively.” Waterboarding isn’t torture tho cause Tim Kennedy KNOWS torture
Waterboarding is mental torture not physical. It's the idea and feeling of drowning without actually doing so. Tim is right its not torture. Once you realize you aren't going to drown it loses effectiveness. He is also right that it will never work on someone who is firm in their beliefs. He is also right that torture also doesn't work so by proxy ultimately waterboarding will fail. When you torture someone they will more likely just tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth making it unreliable information
@@kobochy8108 you say it is mental torture, then you say it is not torture? You know that keeping a person awake for prolonged time or giving them the worst trips of their life and so on is also torture without breaking fingers for example? Also you can actually drown when being waterboarded. Just keep the towel on your face and the water coming.
no it is objectivy easier for me to torture someone who wants to kill me for buring the quran than someone who doesn't humans aren't above animals neccerily we are animals too but we're the only ones with memory storage in the form of paper disks and so on think about that case with a baby being in the same cage as a gurilla in the zoo, your deadline wich is the survival of the baby is simply gone by the time you try to comminucate to the animal that "hey you're gonna kill it buddy you're too strong and that human baby is too fragile" i believe you could eventually teach guerrilas sign language but itll take years and you simply dont have that kind of time. its the same with the terrorist you have to undo years and years of brainwash and fallacies and conformation bias it will take years of therapy and education that is not realistic it is not a deragetory term it is an equivlance you're just gonna die and gotta get away from that thing and also becuase of revenge mechanisms and other tribal shit its just gonna feel good to punch a bunch of nazi..i mean terrorists
@John Weren well you're dumbass who doesn't understand the different kinds of morality you're a deontologist a consequentialist would tell you it's immoral not to torture someone when you could save hundreds of lives
"If you isolate them and take away all their power, they crumble and cave. I need that power. Waterboarding is like asking someone a pointed question." This dude's blood is literally red white and blue kool-aid.
i love joe for standing his ground with what he believes.... i agree 100% if your not a captured person you dont have the same fear as someone else being interrerogated by someone from a enemy country or isis,
I am not getting that from a movie. That's a phrase I have heard my entire life. Thinking you can take the high road with terrorists and they will just leave you alone is hilarious. Sometimes doing something like water boarding is very necessary to save lives.
Sure am I would actually like to meet him in person. I never said he was crazy in a bad way. Sometimes we got to be careful of what we say cause people can over react of a truthful opinion more so on how kids are these days and why about the military, especially on something that isn't his fault like the Busch administration and the 911incident.
I know that, but I still don't have to fear him. I may like him, but if I'm what he swore to protect I should not need to fear him. There are people equally dangerous than he is without being a seal.
Yes, waterboarding is simply pouring water over their mouth .. while also plugging their nose and allowing water to enter their lungs to simulate drowning.
"are we immoral people if we did terrible things to serve our country?" Anyone can use this argument. It doesn't necessarily make you immoral, but the things you did were immoral. I am a vet who was deployed to Iraq. I have to take responsibility for my actions, even if I feel like I was lied to by our own government.
Alex chavez it’s not called Brain washing lol that is what history was like untill recently you killed and took land it was tribe v tribe, everybody has done it lol
Robert Cobklin I’m talking about the past man read it man still effects us still effects you financially man you stole the gold the richest from are people created a law that protected you kind until we told your kind the truth and your ancestors woke up
Chris Lucas that's how we ended up spending billions on a war aimed at finding "weapons of mass destruction" I was having a conversation with a fairly intelligent man about 6 months ago and he actually cited the WMDs as a legit reason for the war in Iraq. People here just don't want to move away from the tribal mentality that the media is propagating
Chris Lucas more like the 9/11 card, people play that card way to much, but the racist card is still the most effective in this politically correct country
Dashoost, what the hell are you talking about? The Global War on Terror did not initiate the war in Iraq. The Bush administration began the Iraq war under different pretenses than the GWoT.
A friends wife actually got a sinus infection from her and her friends waterboarding each other... they made a competition out of who could last the longest and she refused to lose. I agree wih Tim's point that as much as it sucks you arent going to crack from it if you are a tough individual but you may end up with a sinus infection.
@@SovereignStatesman You are both talking crap at best. Kennedy is talking about pouring water onto the faces of murders so that they can find the other murders that are working with them. Much of this is happening in the field during warfare involving opponents that have given up their rights due to not fighting in military uniforms. During WW2 Nazi's that conducted esponiage operations out of uniforms were executed and waterboarded as well. It was never considered torture.
@@tttv687 It is war and they are not playing by the rules established. US forces would have the right to execute them in the field if they chose to do so. Instead they get information out of them and they are allowed to live and maybe even have a life again.
Just because you're not slamming nails through someones hand does not mean it isn't torture. Pretty sure if I got waterboarded I would crumble immediately and be scarred for life from the experience. Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain or suffering on somone, don't know about you but I would call being upside down in a hostile environment with a constant sensation of drowning suffering. His argument basically came down to 'it's not hardcore enough to be torture'
Well to be fair, there has to be a line between what makes something torture, and I think we can both agree that if waterboarding is torture it certainly isn’t anywhere near the level of torture that you’d see from isis or CJNC. It definitely isn’t anywhere near the worst torture out there. Does that mean it doesn’t cross the line into torture? I have no clue, I’m just some college kid in the suburbs who’s thankfully never had to find out
@@shaolinsoccerisadecentmovi7232 People dle from being Waterboarded. To be repeatedly brought close to death and back again sounds pretty damn awful to me…. This Tim prlck I don’t believe for one moment he was actually Waterboarded. Not properly
@@hugopepe1722 @Hugo Pepe: I’m going to assume that you’re being facetious, so please correct me if I’m wrong in that presumption….. With that said. Are you claiming that Tim is insincere in his proclamation, and if so why?
“Why did it work” (water boarding) It didn’t. The detainees gave dramatically false info. Yes, they gave some true info. But most was false. They gave up people that were not guilty
If you volunteer it's not torture, if you are held against your will and have no chance to escape and feel the terror of the inability to fight back or have the waterboarding stop, then without a doubt it's torture. It has nothing to do with toughness or being a macho dude.
Simulated drowning isn't torture ? Joe Rogan mumbling about " it seems to me, i may be ignorant, but waterboarding seems to me to be one of the most humane ways to do it ....you are not gonna do any permanent damage to the person" is a statement that in the best case scenario is utter ignorance. From wikipedia: "Besides death, waterboarding can cause extreme pain, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, and lasting psychological damage.[1] Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[2]" The sources: 1: www.hrw.org/news/2006/04/05/open-letter-attorney-general-alberto-gonzales 2: www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/02/14/outsourcing-torture [2]"Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, told me that he had treated a number of people who had been subjected to such forms of near-asphyxiation, and he argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn’t take showers, and panicked when it rained. “The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience,” he said." [2]"Similar problems complicate the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was captured in Pakistan in March, 2003. Mohammed has reportedly been “water-boarded” during interrogations. If so, Radsan said, “it would be almost impossible to take him into a criminal trial. Any evidence derived from his interrogation could be seen as fruit from the poisonous tree. " I truly don't know what to call that kind of stupid, i just witnessed.
It's frustrating when jackasses like this will let their buddies waterboard them ONCE and then say "Yeah that wasn't so bad, it's not torture guys."... how else do you define 'repeated simulated drowning with no end in sight' OTHER THAN "TORTURE"?
Kid with very small nose Y his logic is that torture doesnt leave any permanent physical damage to a person, so it isnt considered torture, which to an extent is a fair argument
@@bigboy8474 Even if that is his premise it's still wrong. Waterboarding is an extremely traumatic event that can leave people with servere PTSD. It's not even physically safe, you very well can die from water filling your lungs.
Joseph Hamilton my uncle hit me with a phone book when me and my two cousins were playing Bermuda Triangle, Bermuda Triangle is a game we invented where someone gets a sleeping bag slipped over them and stands there and the other two beat the shit out of them 🤣🤣 the things you do when you’re young
People who say they’ve been waterboarded and yeah it was unpleasant but its not torture - they haven’t been waterboarded where they cant stop it when it gets too much. Anyone can get waterboarded for 10 seconds then say “yeah that sucks but its not that bad”. Try getting water boarded for hours and you can’t make me stop - and everytime i do it you know you cant make me stop
In an industrial job, I drilled a hole through my thumbnail into the bone, by accident. 20-years later, I STILL remember it. Same employer, I also nearly cut a finger off on a grinder (which was re-attached)...again, I STILL remember it. Being tied down KNOWING either were about to happen...and maybe worse...yeah, it's torture, so either accept it, or stop doing it. I spent 21-years in the Marine Corps and retired after more than one 'Desert Campaign'...I've seen war, and most of what Tim Kennedy has seen...it doesn't change anything...either ENGAGE COMBATANTS in war, or don't. THIS IS EXACTLY what a 'primarily asynchronous warfare' (special forces) war looks like...abductions, torture, limited strikes...and MINIMAL IMPACT to any real facilitator of the war itself. Either we 'are better than them', or 'we are them'...there are far worse things than death...and MANY of the tactics employed now are just that. It's also how we ended up dealing with torture in Vietnam...because S-2 (intelligence) decided SpecOps had to validate 'enemy dead' by removing ears...never realizing the theological impact this caused (to disfigure the dead is abomination, as they will return in reincarnation in the same dismembered state). We are merely teaching greater evil to be returned to us. Death in war is often honorable...dismemberment or torture are tools of the weak and dishonorable that will return to you with terrible interest, in most cases.
A family member of mine was shot down over Japan and tortured in a POW camp which included waterboarding and lived the rest of his life in a mental asylum from the brain damage.
Probably a weak minded pussy that couldn't handle some water /s Sorry for your family I just had to repeat what this Tim creep was saying it's bogus to think water boardings just some activity and not psychological and physical torture
Michael Morrison What are you? You’re a virgin, coddled kid that has never seen true evil before. You would be fucked and have no idea what to do if the military and the police who protect your well being suddenly vanished. It would be pathetic and funny.
You're a little kid that doesn't know how the world works because you grew up in your house in the suburbs lol. Go to a war zone and realize it ain't sunshine and rainbows
@Anonymous Person By that definition choking on water is drowning. Because for a moment your respiratory system is impaired. And throwing sombody of a boat is much more serious than waterboarding and they are exposed to a much realer threat.
@Anonymous Person thats not how it works there is always water and air unless they not stop pour a bucket on somebody's face they will be able to breath.
Right when Rogan brings up the point about how whatever situation Tim allows himself to be waterboarded is still a controlled situation, and Tim answers that's true and he doesn't know how he could undergo it resolving that issue....that right there, should have lit a lightbulb over his head saying "OH. now THATS why it is torture". When the process is completely out of your hands, when you don't know if THIS time the people that hate you aren't going to stop until you actually drown. Then it becomes real, and not the fake show you filmed to show everyone.
Precisely - also, just how they set up the way that Kennedy was supposedly "waterboarded" is wrong on many levels. The whole "methodology" was wrong and it's NOT how it would've gone down if Kennedy was actually waterboarded by actual CIA torturers.
They want information they aren't going to kill you, just like how if you are doing it for a show they aren't going to kill you...granted the number of people that can think that clearly after music torture or sleep deprivation is probably fairly low.
he gives joe's point a little knod, then starts moving away from that point, he knows he was wrong, he wasn't tortured, he was having fun with his buddies
Thats not waterboarding, its tactical baptism!!
Ha ha ha this is too funny
Baptizing the terrorists with freedom!
Jajajajaja
👏👏🤣
Terrorising terrorist to stop terrorism
I respect joe when he plays devils advocate instead of playing into egos
lestudio76 pretty hard to not play devils advocate against “waterboarding isn’t torture” lol
@@dcypher3657 It's not about honorable opposition. It's about escalating. Fear is not a deterent. If we torture people, we just create more monsters that want to kill us. I don't know what the right answer is, but a world full of monsters who hate us and want to drag us down doesn't sound fun. Sounds like we should stop fucking with them.
Angie J the difference is we’re civilised people with morals. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to wrap a crowbar round a terrorists jaw, however if the government grabbed one of them and skinned them alive starting at the toes they’re would be millions crying “They’re still people!!” “They were forced to do it!!!” “But but human rights!!” As far as I care they lost their rights the moment they stripped someone else of theres. If you’ll happily burn an innocent man alive you’re not a person, you’re dirt that’s aware of its surroundings.
@@dcypher3657 Shouldn't we strive to not become like that? How are we better if we become just like them?
@@dcypher3657 It's not about what they do. It's about what the US government does. If it has standards and principles, it has to live by them. According to Title 18 of the US State Code, torture is "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control", and if you read on, the threat of pain of suffering falls under that definition. Waterboarding is the threat of physical harm, which causes mental suffering, and is undeniably torture.
Now, the question becomes: does the US government commit acts of torture? If the answer is no, then there should be no waterboarding. If the answer is "no, unless...", then it's yes. Because there is no such thing as suspending your principles - otherwise they're simply not principles anymore.
If you think what ISIS (or domestic right-wing terrorists for that matter) does, should directly result in whatever "means to an end" can be put to use, then that's a position to choose. But then you're saying: the US government practices torture to get information in certain cases. The implication of that is that the US would immediately have to get off their high horse on any other human rights subject, and has no moral highground anymore to tell other nations what to do.
And I don't think the US government is ready to relinquish that moral highground. THAT'S the ballgame. Not kindergarten logic of the familiar format of "yes but he...!!!"
pulling out teeth during interrogations isn't torture, it's just a surprise dentist appointment
Surprise mechanics! I love it!
Sons Of Atlus - That’s what American Law enforcement should’ve done to the Dancing Israelis 🕺🏻✈️ 🏢🏢
😂
lol
not the same thing
Fun fact: Christopher Hitchens was a staunch, stubborn advocate for waterboarding, until he volunteered to be waterboarded to prove his beliefs. He thereafter became staunchly opposed- and this happens often. The people okay with it are people who have never been victims.
He was a very intelligent man but also was wise enough to admit when he was wrong
@@SerjTerriblehe was either an advocate for waterboarding or he was very intelligent, not both at the same time.
@@username_pending1328 Intelligence or a lack thereof doesn't automatically move in tandem with morality or empathy and intelligent people are still able to get things wrong
Tom Kennedy did get waterboarded
@bostonnate4024 no he didn't, he had his buddies hold his hand.
One of Joe Rogans finest Moments. He addresses a delicate issue respectfully, without raising his voice or showing annoyance. Raising concerns patiently and eventually showing your opposite your point of view without embarrassing them isn’t easy.
@Exec Utize And to judge the level of ridiculousness of someone's opinion does not require any level of expertise or experience from your point of view?
Everyone here seems to mock his missing level of humbleness- ever looked to the mirror?
@Exec Utize If you want to see a person who holds ridiculous beliefs, change those ridiculous beliefs, you don't mock them. Mockery is the language of war.
You listen, you converse and you get the individual to open their mind by speaking their "language". Then you offer the better perspective (if you have that perspective)
This is how Jacque Fresco and Daryl Davis converted hundreds of KKK members to see rationality (separate endeavors by those two men)
Nobody knows how to do that anymore... its an epidemic.
@@ZeroFucksLeft Nice
@@ZeroFucksLeft Exactly. If you mock them you will just cause them to go on the defensive and they will shut themselves off from even considering your point of view. They will stubbornly hold on to their beliefs just because you mocked them. If you want to stand a chance at causing someone to change their beliefs you have to give them a way to do it without feeling like they are "losing" an argument if they give in. You have to be respectful, and give them the time to consider whatever it is that you have to say, and if they agree with it, and it persuades them to change their belief, they may admit to it, but only if it doesn't make them feel completely undermined.
Surely getting "tortured" by people you trust and you know mentally there is no harm coming to you, is not the same as being strapped on a table in a room with people you know have 0 respect for you and your life.
DeliriumzzZ are we also ignoring the fact that you don’t know when you’re going to be released, if ever. That’s huge. Not only are you being tortured but you could be a prisoner for a year and be tortured every day, and this guy just says that doesn’t work lol okay
Bakers Dozen yep fear of the unknown is the worst fear to have imo.
DeliriumzzZ I agree , I am curious though as to how you would deal with scenarios overseas when dealing with these said people who are not in any way reflective of a human being. They are the lowest of the low: Unspeakable and horrific crimes. It is very hard to have these discussions when no one really understands truly how things need to be handled when American lives are at stake. I think this psychological abuse that you speak of is a product of the capture in its entirety. Why put emphasis of psychological torture on one act when the whole entire process is what is causing this degradation and deep rooted psychological damage?
Honestly, they are trained to protect American lives. Which is what he repeats over and over again. If he died during torture from a terrorist group, then at least it was him instead of hundreds if not thousands of Americans.
That's what makes it effective.
Joe Rogan in 2018: "I've never been tortured - I don't know what it's like"
Joe Rogan 2019: Neil Degrasse Tyson
LOL!
CHUCKDANIELS1 is it cause he kept getting interrupted?
@@unrelentingdischarge8544 yes sir. Not a big deal... just a running gag.
This joke is going over my head.. Can someone explain it to me, I want to laugh too..
Is Tyson the torture?
wowwwwww rewd. :)
He knew he could pull the rag off which is why he was calm. That sense of being restricted is totally part of the whole experience and plays a big part in it
Yeah but what else do you expect him to do actually get captured and then report it?
@@TheUnseenPath he wouldnt ever know the real experience because he's a pussy himself
@@TheUnseenPath keeping his mouth shut would be a good place to start
@@andrewdeen1 they cut hands and heads off, water boarding is a vacation compared to what these animals deserve.
@@andrewdeen1 He basically made a fool of himself. And yes to Amarathros! If he wants to prove a point like this which is impossible unless you're in the thick of it with no safety line which he had then get captured and see how your brain responds compared to knowing for a fact you're safe. This is nonsense.
Vsauce has a good MindField video on fear, and he concluded that the most fearful a human can ever be is through suffocation, combined with a lack of control. Emphasis on the lack of control.
Boy am I glad that combat veteran Vsauce have us his 2 cents 🙄
MikeCharlieAlpha vsauce has access to thousands of different veterans and tools me and you have never heard of. Because he’s not a veteran doesn’t mean he can’t understand what people fear the most.
Thats subjective as fuck, and not gospel, like most Vsauce fanboys think.
Make up your own damn mind
@@michaeljohnsonbaugh7962 have you actually watched the episode? its pretty interesting even if you dont agree with it.
UTubeCorruptAntiFreeSpeechLiberalCo You sound like a moron. Doesn’t seem like you’ve ever watched a mind field series in your life, so you have no right to comment on it. Every episode is made using experts.
Pouring water on someone's face isn't waterboarding. Strapping a person to a board, tilting the board with the head lower, putting a soaked rag in their mouth, putting another soaked rag on their face, pouring huge amounts of water on their chest, (even hold their nose closed), and pour water on the face and mouth. You keep doing it until their lungs almost fill with water. They drown and you revive them, punch them in the stomach to help them expel the water as one way to do so (often ribs are cracked). You keep doing that for hours and hours, days and days. This does cause one to say anything that they think that you want to hear to make it stop.
People that test it often aren't doing it the real way. Plus you know that it will stop because it's just a test. You know that it won't last hours or days. You know for a fact that medical attention is on hand. People care if you lose consciousness or die.
Right on point. This guy is a fucking moron.
@@brandons5782 America are not the police of the world.
foley15136 how do you know this? Have you been present when someone is Being water boarded?
@@nickraad77 lol right?
@@jaymonkey1456 "World Police" Is a title that came from the US Military's invasion of other countries and calling it a "police action" so that Congress doesn't have to formally declare war.
Pulling finger nails isn't torture, it's just a permanent manicure.
Having your teeth pulled out just eliminates any possibility of getting tooth ache in the future. It's actually quite helpful and I'll definitely be requesting it should I be kidnapped.
Dont plz
He's saying that waterboarding is very tame in comparison to other ways they could torture you and he's right. There are much worse things than waterboarding
@@elocore1702 how extreme the waterboarding is, is up to the people doing it. im sure i could turn it into torture, hell, i could keep dumping water onto someone untill they drown.
fingernails will grow back
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster"
-Nietzsche
Ironic how Americans feel moral superiority over literally ANYBODY. The sheer amount of copium needed...
ese wei...
He makes it sound like they're getting a shower.
Because he's a sociopathic piece of shit narcissist.
@@FlyManChimera and you a pussy that would give up your own mother when questioned by a mall cop.
Tactical baptism.
Wrong
who knows? As if America doesn’t kill innocent civilians including women and children with drone strikes? Pretty sure there’s plenty of evil to go around.
The electric chair is actually just an intense massage chair
Facts !
Well have you ever been waterboarded? Or are you just ignorant?
Big facts
La Vas it appears as if you did not get the joke
And think about how relaxed people are afterward
Not justifying nor against water boarding, but it’s a little more than “pouring water” on someone’s face.
is it tho ? if you mess up a dive in the pool that's gonna hurt
we're just not fish man
oxi tocin what?
i have no idea what was the logic behind that but it made a lot of sense when i wrote it back then xDDDD
No physical harm done, right? It really is just water.
@@oxitocin7718, it's to simulate drowning. Plus they're gonna beat you, spit on you, lock you away in a cage. Walk you on a leash and collar like a dog. Feed you the bare minimum.
He would be a perfect villain for a film
Rogan got a point. The psychological issues is clearly different in a tv studio or at enemy soil.
True, but the real point is that waterboarding is not actually "physically" harming the individual, just giving them the sense of being drowned. So it is arguably more humane than torture where bodily harm is done. And it's war, fight to win or don't fight. All bets are off.
Michael DeAmicis The diskussion is about his claim a tv study ain’t the same as being in a tv facilities.
Not to mention if you get the wrong guy who is completely innocent. Thank goodness the US has never done that.
K2 Mally I guess you are joking. As far as I know, they stopped executing people in prison, because the new toll known as DNA. Another thing I think he’s becoming a monster fighting other monsters. War never determined who’s right but who’s left. ( quote Bertrand Russell) humanity has shown over centuries that we are able to justify any kind of violence,especially when money, religion and politics is above common sense. We need to evolve all of us to become better humans. Normally I’m a positive person, but due to humanity I don’t think we ever will get away from violence solutions. Let the Middle East be,and other insane countries. And boycott these to a grade they need to evolve from insane suppressing leaders. And we should stay away from them ASAP
Soldiers get PTSD that have never been "physically harmed"
CIA must be proud of Tim Kennedy.
I know I am!
@@2WheelsTrav I'm proud of CIA for bringing down the twin towers. America is its best enemy.
@@1sanitat1 even better, I'm proud of the cia for peddling more drugs into the country than cartel...
@@mzc102908 They truly are patriots of completely different magnitude than an average person. Doing speedball is the ultimate patriot move and anyone who isn't supporting our brave troops by buying coke and heroin is a russian agent.
„Pouring water“ what a stupid way of saying it you d...head
Next week: Tim Kennedy on broken bones:
Tim: Breaking a bone is not an injury.
Joe: How is a broken bone not an injury?
Tim: Look, when I was risking my life for this country, I saw people get their limbs blown off, I saw people get shot in the face, I saw people get crushed to death.
Joe: How does that relate at all?
Tim: It's just a broken bone. Getting decapitated is an injury. Breaking a bone is not.
LMFAO the amount of people in the military I've met who think like this is hilarious.
"Tis but a flesh wound"
- Tim Kennedy
Being Water boarded is what it takes for him to achieve an erection so he thinks of it as pleasurable not torture...
I handle a broken bone better than crowder so it's fine.
'Tis but a scratch
"If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you"
The abyss being war crimes in this guys case
exactly
Yeah war crimes are in his eyes lol
Lol@@RobFingerbleedsfrom6
Tim is obviously a brave guy and a warrior but either through a bit of a deficit in intelligence or extreme bias due to his chosen profession and traumas, he is ironically one of the last people you'd want making these sorts of estimations and decisions.
Water boarding is unequivocally, unambiguously torture. Giving someone the sensation of drowning is torture. You can subjectively say it's not as bad as chopping someone's finger off, or whatever, but it's clearly torture.
This man is just lowkey owning up to waterboarding the shit outta people in the past I swear
Probably true, it's not just running water over people's heads, it's literally drowning them but also keeping them alive. It's def. Torture, just not as gruesome
He literally said he watched a guy who was being interrogated get his throat slit?
@@MuaythaiMuaythai yea you dumb fuck they were being interrogated by isis
he admitted to killing peopel, they seserved it tho.
Waterboarding is all fun and games until Ahmed decides to put a towel on your face. try calling it harmless then
Starving people is not torture, it's just a really effective diet
"Mandatory fasting"
Ya like fat camp for bad people hahaha
Fasting...................
@@J.JamesTheKid. It's called fasting, because it's. Speed running to skinny
Dylan Fenton it’s called “sarcastic joke” because I’m being sarcastic and commenting a joke.
Dude this guy, Tim Kennedy, is ABSOLUTELY what Nietzsche was talking about when he said "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
Its why Batman does not break his no kill rule. He knows he will be gone, just like the joker
@@TheCoffeeNut711 lol ok what
Exactly was wondering if anyone else came to this conclusion. He thinks he is virtuous but really he is no better than those he despises and you can tell from the hate and resentment in his voice.
War is hell. Others sacrifice everything so you can pretend to be a philosopher and type stupid shit on your keyboard. Fuck off.
Water boarding isn’t torture I was waterboarded in Afghanistan by enemy troops and they couldn’t break me. Waterboarding feels like you’re drowning but there isn’t no lasting physical effect
If a man with strong resolve can withstand something like waterboarding, and that's one of the factors that decides whether or not something is torture, then you could apply that to any kind of enhanced interrogation techniques. A man, with strong enough resolve could take beatings, starvations, nails driven through their hands, etc. so does that not count as torture either?
Jesus did it, stop being a pussy.
Those aren't even close to the same unless you are trying to say that a man with a strong resolve can survive being starved, or his resolve can make him impervious to nails. The question was never about if he would crack and give up information, it was that the physical sensation is not as bad as people make it out to be and it's more about your mentality. Driving nails through your hands or surviving on zero calories is not about your mentality. The only thing waterboarding actually does is scare someone into thinking they might die. Let me repeat. The ONLY thing waterboarding does is scare someone. That is what he showed. Starving, beating, or nails through the hands is not just scaring someone. THAT is the difference between torture and this.
@@rickh5088 you’re just scaring someone into thinking they’ll die multiple times 🤡
@@rickh5088
Starving someone and splitting their nails also is not killing them though. Why draw the line there? Can I pull a gun, rack it back and start blasting next to the a prisoner's ear?
I'm not killing them, I'm just scaring them. Can I pull a knife out on their throat and tell them I'm going to skin their kids alive whilst showing pictures of them?
Is this even all worth it, to burn our reputation over this? I get that this stuff is sensitive intelligence, but 10 years later I would hope to have evidence of how many lives they saved with this.
If so, if they present it, then we would all be more convinced this is the way to go forward (minus some die hard moralists).
@@rickh5088
POV Guy with rick and Morty pfp explains why you're wrong and hes right
You can dose someone with LSD and put them in horrible situations for long periods of time without physically hurting them, but that's also torture.
Sounds like government sponsored programs lol.
LSD is no joke trust me I took that shit and I wanted to kill my self
@@nna2354 You did it wrong.
I would rather have a bad trip than have my shoulders broken and finger nails pulled out
the right dose of LSD in the right setting is one of the best experiences you'll ever have,
but if you're first time is a high dose, you're stressed and mentally not in a good place to begin with, you can have a seriously bad trip.
I love the way Rogans face looks through this entire interview hes like holy hell man is this guy serious LMFAO
Where
I don’t mind joe but he’s a pussy on a lot of topics
@@Keka-vg3ut the entire video, especially when he defines torture and then Tim’s like “I guess we need a definition for torture”
"waterboarding is not torture because there are worse ways to torture" - Tim Kennedy 2018
Steve Austin lol
"thats how a brain works you damage it and it comes back stronger" Tim Kennedy 2018
Was thinking exactly that. Its like executing with shot in the head is ok because ive seen worst than that.
That's entirely the point I was going to write down too.
how about that incredibly reductionist "its just water!" argument? and then came in with the classic "but 911!!" what a bootlicker
"what if I hit em with a phone book" - Tim Kennedy
“I could waterboard you for days” - Tim Kennedy
Lmfaoooo. Joe in his head is like woee, hope I could live up to his expectations.
@@nikolairose2739 hahahahaha
😋
Waterboard me baby!!! Woooooo!! You know who else likes getting waterboarded!?!
MY MOM!!
GREAT example of how a quote can give the opposite impression of reality when taken out of context.
If you think you need to torture someone because you truly think It'd save lives then just say so. I would respect that far better then trying to downplay it.
Exactly. Stand by what you believe. He also said vets who have PTSD are pussies and should just suck it up, and then backtracked. STAND BY what you say, Tim. Is that so hard, being the supreme alpha male you are?
it is about PR and the reputation of the USA. Everybody knows they are full of shit and monsters but if they say they don't torture it just sounds better.
yeah, my issue is that a lot of the people involved in the interrogation program said that the people who were tortured weren't giving any usable. if you were getting good information, it would be messed up, but I could live with it
@Chris M they are ALSO monsters. But at least they don't claim to spread freedom and democracy. They are pretty honest about the fact that they are terrorists and full of shit.
To be fair he did say that several times directly and indirectly
I'd say piloting a plane into a building must involve some sort of strong conviction.
And rest assured, if Joe was getting waterboarded for hours he'd admit to being vegan by the end of it.
Yeah and talking as though the plane can bring down the building and everything in response is by the Geneva convention means he has no convictions. Joined military to kill nothing else.
THANK YOU
Not really if they are hoped up on drugs like the kamikazee pilots. They would take a bunch of drugs before their suicide missions. That doesn’t take a lot of convictions if you don’t really know what’s going on. But the planning phase of that had to be insane
@@jackjon7763 I don't think so. You would still know you're about to die and deal with it exactly the same way. Exactly the same convictions would be required to take the drug for the same purpose. Not that there's any reason to think they used drugs anyway. It's very difficult to fly a plane and do all that happened before that
El Taino look up Hiropon
I got voluntarily waterboarded in highschool by some swim team buddies just for fun, four of them held me down on a bench so I wouldn't thrash while two poured the water. It was one of the worst experiences in my life, like if hell was underwater, but the moment they stopped I stood up and acted like it was nothing, all because I didn't want to look like a pussy in front of everyone, even today when it comes up in conversation I act as if it was nothing. I can tell this guy is doing the exact same thing.
Imagine thinking as nerd who was on the swim team you can even come close to comparing yourself to an ex marine that was deployed 20+ times. Shut up lmao
I think his point is more that real torture doesn't generally end with you able to stand up and act fine.
@@horstnietzsche1923 well his point is stupid lol
Yeah dude, anyone saying it's not torture is beyond foolish
I love when he brings up that he is so much tougher than Crowder because Crowder couldn't handle it, but this guy is military, Crowder isn't. That doesn't make Crowder a coward. What a terrible argument he made.
I’m so glad joe challenged him and fractured his ego a little bit pointing out how he could never understand if he hasn’t been captured on enemy soil, and how he cannot tapout in a street fight
As clever as Joe Rogan is ... he is definitely not nearly as clever as Tim Kennedy when it comes to war
It's just opinions mate
And to be honest when you want an opinion on war would you rather ask a special forces soldier that has served 18 years or a podcast host ?
@@rubendutoit586 It's not just opinions, Joe challenged his argument of "I was waterboarded and I was fine" by saying that he might've been fine because he knew what was coming and that he was in a safe environment. Maybe if he was truly captured in a foreign soil without any assurances of his safety, who knows what would've happened. The point is, an experiment in a controlled environment can never be the same as the reality and you don't need to be an expert in any field to make the argument, you just need logic.
@@jimkohi5611 I totally agree with you in that regard
Only thing is not me, you , joe rogan or anyone in this comment section knows what a green beret soldier would do in that kind of environment should they be captured
only they will know 🙂
You're not talking about average people here remember that
It's so easy to sit at home typing on your keyboard saying this and saying that... these guys don't go through 15 months of training for nothing
I get what you are saying... but
You just need some "logic" as you would say to know you're not a green beret and your someone who sits at home with a pack of doritos on his keyboard and you'll never in your lifetime be the man Tim Kennedy is or any soldier is for that matter so don't argue with how his mind works
I respect Joe Rogan a lot but he's not a special forces soldier and he does not know how their minds work or how they have been trained and fact is he never will nor will you or me so nobody can say Tim is wrong
@@jimkohi5611 and fractured his ego 😂 I mean come on man ... ask your mom for your milk and go to sleep
@@rubendutoit586 bro that argument is so dumb. Is the US the only country with tough soldiers? Like this guy is sucking his own dixk and America’s dixk talking about “every guy that has ever snitched from water boarding is a coward” Lmaoo like the insanity to think none of these men who have been born and raised in fucking war zones are as tough as someone raised in the US is idiotic beyond measures. And for you to think that every green Beret is some fucking beast is also idiotic. You don’t know what will break you mentally until you’re there. There is no amount of prep you can do. Unless this man has been captured and tortured himself, at least ONE time then he’s also talking without knowing wtf he’s talking about. Trying to compare an experiment where he literally had to sign a waiver to being captured in war 😂😂😂😂
"Listen Joe, I've done war crimes, alright? Multiple times. Water isn't that bad"
"Here's the deal, Jack, if a couple hundred thousand innocents need to die and thousands of completely innocent bystanders need to get tortured to calm our violent Islamophobia, you gotta do what you gotta do"
Snowflake corner?
@@theohuioiesin6519 let's waterboard you and see how you like it, tough guy
Mose Schrute why waterboard an innocent person when you can Waterboard terrorists who deserve it?
@@jamesd7495 Because then they'll whine about it being a socialist conspiracy that they read on a QAnon forum.
Water boarding isnt torture and the Military Industrial Complex isnt a war mongering, profit generating machine.
And Senate and Congress tell the truth about everything, you can trust every politician, and the grass is not green
Ryan Black it’s cuz of ignorant people like you that this shit still goes on
connor hess he’s being sarcastic
connor hess the irony is palpable
he knows his logic is flawed, every time joe rebuddles against him Tim just takes a pause and redirects the question
He is a psychopath. He knows what he needs to say to get ahead in his career and he doesnt give one single fk if it is the truth or not. As long as it advances him, he will do or say anything necessary.
"I've never been tortured."
Man, the Adam Conover podcast must have been so terrible for joe, he blocked it out of his memory.
He was being tortured in this very interview by this thick as pig shit guest 😂
Saker dude what is wrong with you?
@@ericsweeney7406 he is tho?
Saker at least show some respect. No need to be a douche about it just because you disagree
Saker he speaks many languages and could literally covertly replace a government in a foreign country in a number of months with a small team. “Thick as pig shit” must be referring to his muscle mass because that’s the only way that description would fit. Meanwhile, you’re probably nothing more than a lump in a chair typing out BS because your anonymity makes you think you’re cool 😆
I kno for a fact that he tortured a few people in his life 😂😂😂
Yeah he has done some dark shit for sure.
He misses it clearly
Vinnie Thompson he’s definitely killed many scum bags throughout his military career
Snaggle Toothed These radical groups in the Middle East are the ones killing innocent people. And I’m sure Tim has merked a few terrorist scum bags in his time with special forces. That’s a fact, quit being a little 🐶
He was pretty triggerd
The misunderstanding is that waterboarding is not just pouring water on someone's face. It's primarily a form of psychological torture with a physical component, similar to sleep deprivation or confinement (3-foot cube). I've seen the results of real waterboarding and it's torture. One person committed suicide because he couldn't live with the nightmares. Another has trouble drinking (any liquid) because he always thinks he's going to drown. These are ex-military... Rangers, etc. and ex-State Department, as well as professional civilians. They are not cowards and they are not wusses... they've been tortured.
The person has to believe that you're not going to stop until you tell them what they want to hear. The person needs to inhale some water and keep on pouring. You have to know that there is a very real chance that you will die. That's waterboarding. It leaves people seriously messed up in the head and unable to function as a normal person... usually for life.
I understand what Kennedy is saying, but Rogan gets it... The whole point is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. It might not be physically scarring, but it's still torture. You'll say anything to make it stop when you believe that it won't stop until you talk (or die). It's worth noting here that there are plenty of ways to torture someone physically that leave no visible marks or other physical evidence.
This whole argument against waterboarding being torture is simply the CIA and State Department wanting to be able to say that waterboarding is not technically torture so that they can feel like they're not wrong in using it. It's like justifying stealing by redefining it as "borrowing indefinitely." Similarly, the buzzword "Discomfort" is just another way of saying "Pain" that allows torturers to justify what they do in their own minds.
It's worth noting that prominent English dictionaries as well as international organizations do not specify that torture must specifically involve physical pain... torture can be either mental or physical. Most commonly, as in the case of waterboarding, torture is a combination of mental (psychological) and physical discomfort/pain.
Agreed
"I think I‘m a very moral person"😂😂
This dude cracks me up
Whos saved tons of lives and done more to actually help and save people than you ever will.
Morality is apparently more complex than you would ever care to admit.
@@cosmicbilly saving lives and helping people is possible without committing war crimes buddy. If you want to say committing war crimes is necessary to actually help people, then say that. But don’t try to hide behind this morality bullshit. War crimes are not moral. Period.
@@joeschmo9953 Whats your point? Are you suggesting committing war crimes can be the moral thing to do?
@@Livingston_Seagull Why can't cosmic hide behind morality bs? You hide behind fake laughter. I think the only moral path is to avoid war at any reasonable cost. Once at war the goal is to win. Anything else is an out and out lie.
Tim "it's not torture because I've done it to people" Kennedy
aj mazzaro way to take things out of context
KingGrizzly 78 lol it’s not taking anything out of context. That’s why he supports torture because he has done it. Every other piece of ‘context’ in this video is him trying to justify his actions. I guarantee if he was caught and tortured he would sound more like John McCain than Hideki Tojo.🤔
Hayden Johnson didn’t he say that torture doesn’t work because at some point the person being tortured will tell you anything you want to hear, even if it isn’t true
If you go up against him in the octagon that definitely would be torture
Hayden Johnson who cares if he has
That's weird, because the Japanese waterboarded US POWs during WW2 and we called it torture back then
Yeah of course, when we do it it’s never torture; we always do the right thing here.
sactown916 are you fucking stupid?
Well they also burned out their eyes with lit cigarettes and shoved bamboo splinters under their fingernails. As Kennedy said, it becomes torture when you start adding things on top of them
Thurgor Supreme now that's weird, cause I dont think tim is from ww2
That's the least the Japanese did.
It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them.
"Does this make me and all of my friends... immoral people?"
Yes. I love how Tim Kennedy expects others to have qualms about calling him a bad person.
he tries to downplay the torture aspect by saying "we're just pouring water on their face." That's like saying that all you do when shocking someone with electrodes is "we're just flipping a switch." They're inducing the panic fear of drowning on someone. Torture. And if anyone did this to American soldiers who were captured, we'd immediately call it that.
If the late Christopher Hitchens (who volunteered to get waterboarded) is to be believed, it doesn't just induce the fear of drowning. At a point, you actually start drowning.
It is happening to Americans tho, in the middle east
@@oliverradivan434 where they don't belong
I think Kennedy talked about that. It sounded like things MUCH worse than waterboarding were happening. Thats the point. These animals needed to be stopped and we needed information. It worked and the animals were not physically harmed.
Oliver Radivan ... and so if the enemy does, then we should do it? You wanna go down that rabbit hole, Oliver?
Joe: "So you knew you were completely safe during the whole thing?"
Tim: "Yes"
Joe: "So you agree that this is different than a real situation?"
Tim: "But that's beside the point"
Okay buddy
More like "you knew you could STOP it at any time."
Like you can't tickle yourself, it's a matter of CONTROL.
Tom Evans that control is kinda irrelevant when dealing with the torture though. The same physical sensation is felt, and the reaction to it doesnt really matter, because either way youre not really going to be damaged from it
Tom Evans and realistically I don’t think any of these people think that theyre going to be drowned to death. Drowning is an inefficient, relatively pain-free and simply ridiculous way to kill someone, especially when the water is being poured on you. Its a scare tactic at best, and any logical person could see that
@@bigboy8474 "drowning is pain-free" 😂😂😂😂
@@quixoticrage4190 yeah dude I giggled too
Joe Rogan does a great job playing devil’s advocate for the sake of good conversation.
It's why his show is the best imo
And how he doesn't try to shun them for such opinions either.
I'm so impressed by Joe's ability as an interviewer... and he doesn't let Tim off the hook... discussing John McCain's experiences was brilliant to highlight why torture is not ok, morally... if we do this, we are no better than they are... and that's not ok
Tim "waterboarding was the least violent of my war crimes" Kennedy.🤣
And it most certainly was a war crime make no mistake. A passing knowledge of the Geneva convention tells you this.
War crimes? When are you fucking pussies going to realize that there are a lot of really fucked up people in this world and that when dealing with these animals you need to use extreme measures? I was told in basic training all about the things we couldn't do when dealing with the enemy. The hell with that. If it's a choice between me and that human piece of shit who's trying to kill me, you can bet I would have used any and all means available to make sure it wasn't me. Both you and chig bungus need to grow a pair and man the fuck up.
@@chigbungus5257 Geneva conventions concerns is with prisoners and non combatants. Are you fucking dumb? Dude killed SOLDIERS non civilians. Like stfu
Waterboarding is definitely a fantastic way to get what you need. Definitely not torture. 😁👌
Walter = slbdpp
He’s convincing himself, not us.
Im fine with waterboarding...Terrorist are lucky they even are allowed to get water boarded they should be executed on the spot.
Moron.
It’s moronic to euthanize people who brutally murder other people? K. Let em mosey on back to what they’re doing. Training to kill westerners. Fuckin brilliant. Stupid democrat.
@206- Sea Guilty by association should be killed.
@@flyinglotus5401 reminds me of Berlin 1941
"I know torture very intimately.... I've looked at it."
????
he sounded like someone bragging about knowing what its like to get abused. kinda off putting tbh
Looool Tim is an idiot, how does someone seeing people tortured know how it feels. What kind of stupid guy is this loool
I did 2 when I played GTA!
s a he’s been in war countless number of times and if u ever heard his war stories he tells a story where around 300 fighters surrounded him and his team. They were in a gunfight for 3 days and lost guys and everyone of them thought they were going to die. Imagine being in that situation having to fight and kill people, knowing your going to die and also seeing your best friends get killed right in front of your eyes. In my opinion that is torture. He said he’s seen people get tortured and if u see that u can still have feeling about how that person is feeling. He probably is more qualified to talk about this that 99.9% if people alive
I know what torture is: I've committed it ~ Tim War Criminal Kennedy
????
@@Crazylab1616a bit puzzled by something?
@@dududadadede96 it's the whole "war criminal" comment.....
@@Crazylab1616well he just pretty much admitted to torturing people so…
Tim "I was just offering them a glass of water filtered through a towel over their face" Kennedy
Is there a multi filter option please ?
That waterboarding stuff sounds so decent, can I have that instead of yoga class? Seems very relaxing and healthy.
"Believe me, it's torture"
- Christopher Hitchens, after trying it.
Literally everyone who was pro-waterboarding and tried it changed their minds. There’s absolutely no question that it is torture.
Well... I mean not "literally everyone", since Kennedy tried it and didn't change his mind. What's adorable is that he gives no credit to the fact that he's a highly trained special forces operator. Like he's not in the 1% of the (physically and mentally) toughest people in the world.
Also, we tried Japanese soldiers for war crimes, for waterboarding American soldiers in WWII. Worked on them, so I guess they were "weak cowards" too.
I miss hitch , he actually had the balls to put this argument to bed by being waterboarded himself ,that is journalistic integrity
I believe that water boarding is torture but mental torture, kinda like putting someone in complete isolation but not as bad because that person is able to keep their sanity, not physical and water boarding tricks the mind into believing you can’t breathe even thought you’re able to so in turn it makes you your own torturer
A Aizner Tim Kennedy wasn’t waterboarded. All he did was hold his breath while his friends poured water on his face and stopped every 15 seconds. He needs to be strapped up head angled down rag on face constant flow of water being poured on his face for 10mins
It’s not just someone spilling water on you. The point of it is to simulate drowning. He’s the only one I’ve ever heard from who’s been water boarded who says it’s not torture. Sure there are worse forms but he clearly did it just to be able to say it’s not torture.
He's just trying to act tough, he experienced the same thing as everyone else the entire time and when he stood up he pretended it was nothing
How many fuckin people do you know who've been waterboarded? Might want to find a new job. ISIS isn't gonna be around much longer.
@@GenericProtagonist7 congratulations, you just discovered how different humans have different tolerances. Want a cookie?
"Simulating" drowning? Sorry...it "IS" drowning. If the waterboarding was not halted...you would drown. That's not a simulation...it's controlled drowning that can be started at stopped on demand.
@@shenanigans5183 he said he pretended. He knows it’s a horrid experience and he’s pretending he didn’t hate it.
So why did we execute Japanese servicemen convicted of waterboarding American servicemen during WW2?
@@birish21 Hey Stupid! www.mediamatters.org/national-review/nros-hemingway-gets-history-wrong-accusing-begala-botching-facts What was that? Did you say something? crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction-we-actually-did-execute-j
AhemAhem chirp chirp
AhemAhem
Lol dumbass
Would you happen to be a communist?
Waterboarding was a small portion of japanese war crimes against POWs (good example is decapitation contest) and that was over 60 years ago. Opinions do change with time, not saying youre wrong but using a different era for ideas now isnt 100% solid
Its the same reason why people cheat on the spouse without them knowing and constantly accuse them of cheating. Its because they believe they are such a great person that if they are doing this and they are so great, tge other person has to be doing 10x worse cuase they aren't as great or moral as you are.... thats sociopathic behavior
I want your honest opinion because I am Curious.
With enemies like Isis do you think a methode with our morals in line is the apropriate way to handle these people? (This is no attack I just wan't to know opinions from the other side) (bad english)
Inflicting scare and horror into a person to extract information is torture, no matter if you like it or not.
This isn’t Tim explaining why water boarding isn’t torture, this is him trying to justify why torture is ok.
what part of " pouring water over a person's face isn't torture" didnt you understand???
Cocky Rooster he said “it isn’t torture because it doesn’t work”, and then went on to say “torture in general doesn’t work” and then went on to say “torture works on these terrorists cause they’re pussies”. Nothing about what he said made any fucking sense
@@Itssconnorr exactly. Its complicated. Whats torture for you may not be torture for the next guy...and as rogan said, pouring water on some one doestn do permanent damage, it just makes them uncomfortable....who cares...
Cocky Rooster it’s not complicated at all, drowning someone against their will is torture. Nobody’s getting a hard on from being waterboarded, it’s torture and I’m surprised people still debate it like it’s not.
Tim Kennedy and Stephen Crouder water boarded eachother in an interview for fun
This Guy may think a bit highly of himself
Yea his arguments are weak
The fuck is wrong with this guy
@N.A.R Channel So he's in shape and wanted to prove himself. Now he's god? Can do no wrong? Lol this guy would get DESTROYED in any debate club in the world.
@N.A.R Channel you can be a green beret and still be a fucking idiot tho
@N.A.R Channel i'm just saying. not necessarily in the case of tim kennedy, but as a general rule. being a green beret is a hell of a thing, but it is still possible to be an asshole. most sf guys are alright, some are dicks
Rogan: *defines torture
Kennedy: “We need to define torture.”
Not what he saidq
MultiAJGS Calm down.
doclumiz1 eeeehm... okay. Whats up?
MultiAJGS Not much. How are you?
Well I’m fine, thank you! How about you? I just wrote that I didn’t quite agree with your statement, sorry for my typo.
Any practice designed to make the victim feel like they are in danger constitutes torture. That’s why mock executions are a form of psychological torture
I don’t think terrorists or mass murderers are capable of victimhood. Meaning when you commit atrocities you’re essentially turning in your human card. Torture to save lives=moral. Torture for punishment(with due process)=moral.
Torture for entertainment=immoral.
@@GetMoneyFuggBidges thank god you have no power to turn a country into some draconian hellscape
Smothering someone with a pillow isn’t attempted murder, it’s a pillow fight 😂
3.5/10 joke
@@fucashima4798 hey everyone another snowflake tim Kennedy fan
"enhanced snuggle technique"
“As a form of torture, waterboarding became illegal under the law of war with the adoption of the third Geneva Convention of 1929, which required that prisoners of war be treated humanely, and the third and fourth Geneva Conventions of 1949, which explicitly prohibited the torture and cruel treatment of prisoners of war and civilians, respectively.” Waterboarding isn’t torture tho cause Tim Kennedy KNOWS torture
Then he claims these people are not like us, they are just cowards, animals and we would never break...such bullshit.
Waterboarding is mental torture not physical. It's the idea and feeling of drowning without actually doing so. Tim is right its not torture. Once you realize you aren't going to drown it loses effectiveness. He is also right that it will never work on someone who is firm in their beliefs. He is also right that torture also doesn't work so by proxy ultimately waterboarding will fail. When you torture someone they will more likely just tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth making it unreliable information
@@kobochy8108 you say it is mental torture, then you say it is not torture? You know that keeping a person awake for prolonged time or giving them the worst trips of their life and so on is also torture without breaking fingers for example?
Also you can actually drown when being waterboarded. Just keep the towel on your face and the water coming.
Good thing they are not protected by the Geneva convention as they are not part of a military
@@ryanh3951 this is the best. So insane that the USA calls it a war on terror and then says all the rules do not apply to their prisoners.
Calls other humans animals. Easier to torture them that way
no it is objectivy easier for me to torture someone who wants to kill me for buring the quran than someone who doesn't
humans aren't above animals neccerily we are animals too but we're the only ones with memory storage in the form of paper disks and so on
think about that case with a baby being in the same cage as a gurilla in the zoo, your deadline wich is the survival of the baby is simply gone by the time you try to comminucate to the animal that "hey you're gonna kill it buddy you're too strong and that human baby is too fragile" i believe you could eventually teach guerrilas sign language but itll take years and you simply dont have that kind of time.
its the same with the terrorist you have to undo years and years of brainwash and fallacies and conformation bias it will take years of therapy and education that is not realistic it is not a deragetory term it is an equivlance you're just gonna die and gotta get away from that thing
and also becuase of revenge mechanisms and other tribal shit its just gonna feel good to punch a bunch of nazi..i mean terrorists
@John Weren well you're dumbass who doesn't understand the different kinds of morality you're a deontologist
a consequentialist would tell you it's immoral not to torture someone when you could save hundreds of lives
Well they were animals
Tim would be a Nazi if he grew up in post-WW1 Germany
@@adaptiveagile Nazis felt they were protecting their country's freedom...at any cost.
"If you isolate them and take away all their power, they crumble and cave. I need that power. Waterboarding is like asking someone a pointed question." This dude's blood is literally red white and blue kool-aid.
i love joe for standing his ground with what he believes.... i agree 100% if your not a captured person you dont have the same fear as someone else being interrerogated by someone from a enemy country or isis,
Kinda the point of a wartime interrogation, isn't it? You expect coffee and croissants? FFS, harden up.
fuck that, they tried waterboarding on Christopher Hitchen, the guy tapped right the fuck out.
@@MyBelch that doesn't justify torture.
@@KPho150 imagine not being allowed to tap out.
@@KPho150 shit argument. That guy was a blowhard. Also, so is little Timmy
Losing all your money isn’t bankruptcy, your bank account just went on a diet
"I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but I will".
Wolves and sheep, what are you?
Mike Stevens dude they movie you're getting that from the guy it's talking about was a complete psychopath
I am not getting that from a movie. That's a phrase I have heard my entire life. Thinking you can take the high road with terrorists and they will just leave you alone is hilarious. Sometimes doing something like water boarding is very necessary to save lives.
Killing terrorists make you a psychopath now? Better tell that to everyone in Syria right now fighting ISIS, i'm sure they'll give two shits.
Vanessa Venkov one do you know who i'm referring to second the man bragged about killing Americans multiple times
Being an actual prisoner - excellent point Joe.
Its not waterboarding if you use diesel...
BarBedWiReD BeaR 😃
BarBedWiReD BeaR> or ammonium hydroxide.
I like this
What about PISS..?🤔🤔
goni menomeno > imagine the moral out rage if they used bacon grease.
I don't know Tim Kennedy but he seems kinda crazy.
And seems like a total fucking douche bag.
Gregorio Grillo Morales Definitely a bit crazy! Just be glad hes on our side!
Sure am I would actually like to meet him in person. I never said he was crazy in a bad way. Sometimes we got to be careful of what we say cause people can over react of a truthful opinion more so on how kids are these days and why about the military, especially on something that isn't his fault like the Busch administration and the 911incident.
@@devinloveridge2164 and why should I fear him?
I know that, but I still don't have to fear him. I may like him, but if I'm what he swore to protect I should not need to fear him.
There are people equally dangerous than he is without being a seal.
Yes, waterboarding is simply pouring water over their mouth .. while also plugging their nose and allowing water to enter their lungs to simulate drowning.
the problem is you waterboard them.. they drown, you resuscitate them and then you drown them again..and you repeat over and over and over.
Ok so let the Animals walk free , got it.
Yup, that's what I said you got it..I do remember when I said exactly that.
Tyler Costain well u are a left wing nut case so I'm basically talking to a tree now.
The Rebound Guy lol u are really a extreme nut case of left wing flue
"are we immoral people if we did terrible things to serve our country?" Anyone can use this argument. It doesn't necessarily make you immoral, but the things you did were immoral. I am a vet who was deployed to Iraq. I have to take responsibility for my actions, even if I feel like I was lied to by our own government.
Jason Jason exactly. If other countries do horrible things in the name of "protecting" thier country. By that logic. They are justified?
Jason Jason Very well put
Alex chavez lmao so Native Americans African Americans Hispanics Asians never killed hahaha that's a joke right
Alex chavez it’s not called Brain washing lol that is what history was like untill recently you killed and took land it was tribe v tribe, everybody has done it lol
Robert Cobklin I’m talking about the past man read it man still effects us still effects you financially man you stole the gold the richest from are people created a law that protected you kind until we told your kind the truth and your ancestors woke up
Ahhh the 9/11 defense
Chris Lucas that's how we ended up spending billions on a war aimed at finding "weapons of mass destruction" I was having a conversation with a fairly intelligent man about 6 months ago and he actually cited the WMDs as a legit reason for the war in Iraq. People here just don't want to move away from the tribal mentality that the media is propagating
PackersBucksBadgers1 When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts.
PackersBucksBadgers1 He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions.
Chris Lucas more like the 9/11 card, people play that card way to much, but the racist card is still the most effective in this politically correct country
Dashoost, what the hell are you talking about? The Global War on Terror did not initiate the war in Iraq. The Bush administration began the Iraq war under different pretenses than the GWoT.
They have done experiments about water boarding, people knew it was a test and knew they could stop at any time and all of them freaked out
A friends wife actually got a sinus infection from her and her friends waterboarding each other... they made a competition out of who could last the longest and she refused to lose. I agree wih Tim's point that as much as it sucks you arent going to crack from it if you are a tough individual but you may end up with a sinus infection.
Thats why sf get trained in the event of capture and torture
@@M4XXXXXXXX you can never train for real torture.
@@osio7528 yeah true but they can at least prepare for it, most of the time they’ll off em selves before capture
@@M4XXXXXXXX I'd probably do the same.
I don’t understand how Tim just couldn’t grasp the fact it’s not the same 😂
Socio-psychopath.
Tim's the kind of guy to yell at a child for crying when getting stitches because he's seen people break their bones.
Thats a good one
Yeah terrorists who kill and maim are similar to little children
Darryn Jacobs yeah but they haven’t been proven guilty so you can’t just torture people who you think are terrorist
@@nna2354 Firstly, not torture. Secondly, because everyone they interrogate is innocent?
@@nna2354 What are the prerequisites for ISIS killing and maiming?
This guy reminds me of a villain who was once a good guy, and just seen so much torture that he fell in love with it
IOW a realistic villain. They always start out idealistic and good, but then they compromise based on excuses for their own failure.
@@SovereignStatesman
You are both talking crap at best.
Kennedy is talking about pouring water onto the faces of murders so that they can find the other murders that are working with them.
Much of this is happening in the field during warfare involving opponents that have given up their rights due to not fighting in military uniforms. During WW2 Nazi's that conducted esponiage operations out of uniforms were executed and waterboarded as well.
It was never considered torture.
@@tttv687
It is war and they are not playing by the rules established.
US forces would have the right to execute them in the field if they chose to do so. Instead they get information out of them and they are allowed to live and maybe even have a life again.
@Lucho Lavalle
Nonsense.
bighand69 My Lai? Kandahar massacre? Shinwar massacre? Haditha killings?
jake gyllenhaal could totally play this dude in a movie
Cody Clarke Jake is too thin though
he could bulk up, he's hardcore like that
Samuel Nelson have you seen the movie where hes a boxer? Hes jacked
Just because you're not slamming nails through someones hand does not mean it isn't torture. Pretty sure if I got waterboarded I would crumble immediately and be scarred for life from the experience. Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain or suffering on somone, don't know about you but I would call being upside down in a hostile environment with a constant sensation of drowning suffering.
His argument basically came down to 'it's not hardcore enough to be torture'
It's just not as severe as other forms of torture
@@shaolinsoccerisadecentmovi7232 No one is saying that it is
Yeah because it’s not fair to other things labeled as torture
Well to be fair, there has to be a line between what makes something torture, and I think we can both agree that if waterboarding is torture it certainly isn’t anywhere near the level of torture that you’d see from isis or CJNC. It definitely isn’t anywhere near the worst torture out there. Does that mean it doesn’t cross the line into torture? I have no clue, I’m just some college kid in the suburbs who’s thankfully never had to find out
@@shaolinsoccerisadecentmovi7232
People dle from being Waterboarded. To be repeatedly brought close to death and back again sounds pretty damn awful to me…. This Tim prlck I don’t believe for one moment he was actually Waterboarded. Not properly
TK has a great memory when it comes to bad things that have been done to the US, and total amnesia about bad things the US has done to everyone else.
Jesus Christ this military god complex on my screen is intense
He's talking about the realities of the rest of the world, not here in our western country. How many overseas deployments do you have?
THIS GUY IS A FUNCTIONAL PSYCOPATH
@@zellkingpromotionszellking1465 best joke is at 7:50
@@hugopepe1722 @Hugo Pepe: I’m going to assume that you’re being facetious, so please correct me if I’m wrong in that presumption….. With that said. Are you claiming that Tim is insincere in his proclamation, and if so why?
@John Wick Europe let them into their countries they fucked themselves.
“Why did it work” (water boarding)
It didn’t.
The detainees gave dramatically false info.
Yes, they gave some true info. But most was false.
They gave up people that were not guilty
Snitching is Snitching
.....so we did get correct informstion from them lmao okayyyy
that'd be because it wasnt torturous enough ^.^
Let me take you prisoner and waterboarded you for 7 months straight and you might just talk
@@Themayseffect 😭👍
If you volunteer it's not torture, if you are held against your will and have no chance to escape and feel the terror of the inability to fight back or have the waterboarding stop, then without a doubt it's torture. It has nothing to do with toughness or being a macho dude.
Simulated drowning isn't torture ? Joe Rogan mumbling about " it seems to me, i may be ignorant, but waterboarding seems to me to be one of the most humane ways to do it ....you are not gonna do any permanent damage to the person" is a statement that in the best case scenario is utter ignorance.
From wikipedia:
"Besides death, waterboarding can cause extreme pain, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, and lasting psychological damage.[1] Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[2]"
The sources:
1: www.hrw.org/news/2006/04/05/open-letter-attorney-general-alberto-gonzales
2: www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/02/14/outsourcing-torture
[2]"Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, told me that he had treated a number of people who had been subjected to such forms of near-asphyxiation, and he argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn’t take showers, and panicked when it rained. “The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience,” he said."
[2]"Similar problems complicate the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was captured in Pakistan in March, 2003. Mohammed has reportedly been “water-boarded” during interrogations. If so, Radsan said, “it would be almost impossible to take him into a criminal trial. Any evidence derived from his interrogation could be seen as fruit from the poisonous tree. "
I truly don't know what to call that kind of stupid, i just witnessed.
It's frustrating when jackasses like this will let their buddies waterboard them ONCE and then say "Yeah that wasn't so bad, it's not torture guys."... how else do you define 'repeated simulated drowning with no end in sight' OTHER THAN "TORTURE"?
Yeah this was bizarre but an interesting perspective nonetheless.
i love how a comment with direct references like this get like 2 comments, but allegorical evidence based comments get like 85 comments.
Damn bro imagine if you put this kind of effort into not a TH-cam comment
Your Favorite Dildo Not the best show of intelligence friend.
I don't know, call me crazy but I feel like water boarding is kind of torturey
Ya his logic is, is that water boarding isn’t as bad as some torture therefore it’s isn’t torture
Clark Then u may be suffering from being a bitch!
Kid with very small nose Y his logic is that torture doesnt leave any permanent physical damage to a person, so it isnt considered torture, which to an extent is a fair argument
@@bigboy8474 Even if that is his premise it's still wrong. Waterboarding is an extremely traumatic event that can leave people with servere PTSD. It's not even physically safe, you very well can die from water filling your lungs.
@@HussAA23BBall is this my 6y/o cousin's alt account?
“What if i hit them with a phone book?”
- Tim Kennedy
Joseph Hamilton my uncle hit me with a phone book when me and my two cousins were playing Bermuda Triangle, Bermuda Triangle is a game we invented where someone gets a sleeping bag slipped over them and stands there and the other two beat the shit out of them 🤣🤣 the things you do when you’re young
Steven71179 did it hurt?
Joseph Hamilton yes it hurt like a bitch 🤣🤣
People who say they’ve been waterboarded and yeah it was unpleasant but its not torture - they haven’t been waterboarded where they cant stop it when it gets too much.
Anyone can get waterboarded for 10 seconds then say “yeah that sucks but its not that bad”.
Try getting water boarded for hours and you can’t make me stop - and everytime i do it you know you cant make me stop
Tim “what if I hit them with a phone book?” Kennedy
Phonebooks done leave bruises. It is known
@@jimmyfallon2484 it is known
The " what if I slap them with a phone book" example seemed oddly specific
😂
You Americans will eventually pay for your "moral" acts. You can't do such shit to people and expect them to eat it humbly.
Seems kinda phony, doesn't it?
@@elvisiwot5215 Yeah. We can. Because Tim.
Elvis Iwot I bet you live in America you turnip
This man looks like he goes around kicking sand castles and calling people snowflakes
Insulting someone doesn't make their argument invalid. It just makes you look ignorant and dull.
@@Eastern-Asia Yeah. Shut the fuck up!
More like goes around kicking the shit out of terrorists
Joe Traill hell yea brother tell em
Kids*
In an industrial job, I drilled a hole through my thumbnail into the bone, by accident. 20-years later, I STILL remember it. Same employer, I also nearly cut a finger off on a grinder (which was re-attached)...again, I STILL remember it. Being tied down KNOWING either were about to happen...and maybe worse...yeah, it's torture, so either accept it, or stop doing it. I spent 21-years in the Marine Corps and retired after more than one 'Desert Campaign'...I've seen war, and most of what Tim Kennedy has seen...it doesn't change anything...either ENGAGE COMBATANTS in war, or don't. THIS IS EXACTLY what a 'primarily asynchronous warfare' (special forces) war looks like...abductions, torture, limited strikes...and MINIMAL IMPACT to any real facilitator of the war itself. Either we 'are better than them', or 'we are them'...there are far worse things than death...and MANY of the tactics employed now are just that. It's also how we ended up dealing with torture in Vietnam...because S-2 (intelligence) decided SpecOps had to validate 'enemy dead' by removing ears...never realizing the theological impact this caused (to disfigure the dead is abomination, as they will return in reincarnation in the same dismembered state). We are merely teaching greater evil to be returned to us. Death in war is often honorable...dismemberment or torture are tools of the weak and dishonorable that will return to you with terrible interest, in most cases.
wow. thx for that input. this comment should be put somewhere prominent.
Damn Tim really drank that Koolaide and came back for seconds
A family member of mine was shot down over Japan and tortured in a POW camp which included waterboarding and lived the rest of his life in a mental asylum from the brain damage.
Probably a weak minded pussy that couldn't handle some water /s
Sorry for your family I just had to repeat what this Tim creep was saying it's bogus to think water boardings just some activity and not psychological and physical torture
Tim is the personified uncle Sam poster.
Michael Morrison What are you? You’re a virgin, coddled kid that has never seen true evil before. You would be fucked and have no idea what to do if the military and the police who protect your well being suddenly vanished. It would be pathetic and funny.
@@watchyoprofamity1235 Stfu pussy.
A bootlicking old man who encourages naive morons to die "for their country " aka corporate interests
Haha
You're a little kid that doesn't know how the world works because you grew up in your house in the suburbs lol. Go to a war zone and realize it ain't sunshine and rainbows
“Waterboarding is just like pouring water on your face.” Kennedy
Tim “slowly drowning people who have no idea if your going to kill them is not torture" Kennedy
Drowning means you are in the process of dying, its not drowning
Waterboarding can lead to lung impairment due to your sinuses being filled with water surely leading to you inhaling some.
@Anonymous Person By that definition choking on water is drowning.
Because for a moment your respiratory system is impaired.
And throwing sombody of a boat is much more serious than waterboarding and they are exposed to a much realer threat.
@@leonhull6720 You are flat on a table so it mitigates that the water is mostly out of you by the time its done and you spit it out.
@Anonymous Person thats not how it works there is always water and air unless they not stop pour a bucket on somebody's face they will be able to breath.
Right when Rogan brings up the point about how whatever situation Tim allows himself to be waterboarded is still a controlled situation, and Tim answers that's true and he doesn't know how he could undergo it resolving that issue....that right there, should have lit a lightbulb over his head saying "OH. now THATS why it is torture". When the process is completely out of your hands, when you don't know if THIS time the people that hate you aren't going to stop until you actually drown. Then it becomes real, and not the fake show you filmed to show everyone.
Precisely - also, just how they set up the way that Kennedy was supposedly "waterboarded" is wrong on many levels. The whole "methodology" was wrong and it's NOT how it would've gone down if Kennedy was actually waterboarded by actual CIA torturers.
snwlcke3 agreed
They want information they aren't going to kill you, just like how if you are doing it for a show they aren't going to kill you...granted the number of people that can think that clearly after music torture or sleep deprivation is probably fairly low.
he gives joe's point a little knod, then starts moving away from that point, he knows he was wrong, he wasn't tortured, he was having fun with his buddies