All the other commenters are so eager to talk about other side topics covered in this video, such as FSD. You're one of the few that realized the subject heading wasn't directly addressed.
FSD Hardware 4 is behind Hardware 3 in functionality for at least the next 6 months. The implication being that new Model Ys are oddly missing functionality. That’s all I got from it.
I respectfully disagree that “basic autopilot software is great” on a Tesla. We have owned a Model 3 for 2 years. On long road trips I still experience phantom braking on autopilot, sometimes dangerously in front of other cars. This is not the case with our 2016 Subaru Outback where the Eyesight cruise control has never done that. Come on, Tesla, fix this DANGEROUS flaw!
I study and model battery degradation and I have worked for several EV makers. The fast charge study by Recurrent is not detailed enough. It doesn't say whether or how it controlled for mileage, climate, average charging time (depth of charge). The most important issue it missed is it is using estimated range from the dashboard rather than real range. The whole conclusion hinges on how accurate or inaccurate Tesla's battery health and range algorithm estimate the state of health of the battery, and how the SOH estimator translate into range estimation. To give an example, my cell phone estimates my battery to last for 12 hours brand new but in actuality it will only last 10. Without a real range test, the estimator output is worthless, and hence the whole conclusion is baseless.
News about frequent DC fast charging as not harmful to battery life is welcomed. But, we don’t hear enough about the harm of leaving a conventional NMC battery near 100% for a long time. To extend battery life, avoid leaving it near 100% for several hours or days. When preparing for a road trip, schedule home charging to complete near 95-100% just prior to departure.
I'm buying a Model Y next year when my Model 3 lease expires. I'll get a Long Range with Enhanced Auto-Pilot. I won't buy FSD at the current price, probably will rent FSD a month at a time depending on my travels.
In related news, Ryan Shaw to inventor of fire: “eeew there is smoke in my eyes”. I just drove 40 miles on FSD 11.4.7, from unmarked back roads to I95 with zero interventions. Yes Tesla is not perfect but they are revolutionizing transportation in multiple ways, please tone down the drama.
As a Computer scientist I have to tell you: IF Tesla really achieves FSD, it will for certain not be backward compatible to HW3 or even HW4, as Elon has promised. Software moves much faster than hardware and by the time they figure out a way to have a General AI model, a completely set of hardware will be needed. Unless you are buying this because it is a cool feature to have in a car, don't bother using your money on it. This is not an investment and your car will not drive itself in 10 years time. You are paying to be an Alpha tester for some big company.
If you are buying the car for the FSD, you are liable to be disappointed; at least for the first, many months. If you are buying the car for an excellent experience driving it yourself, go for it!
@@jerrymcintire7902our model Y with hardware 4 has FSD beta. We've been playing with it. It works really good.... except in construction zones. Why did you say hdw4 doesn't have FSD?
Because it doesn’t have USS, the windshield wipers turns on for no reason, ghost braking, lack of build quality, and because driving in the rain that vision FSD “thingy” doesn’t work at all
It's a bit confusing with the amenities offered at some of the new charging areas because staying too long gets you an extra charge and texts to move your vehicle out of the stall so others can charge?? Seems counter to the goal of faster charges.
@@weho_brian I live closer to boys town - but musk is all but boycotted by the gay culture. To get approval to build would mean the city planning etc. approved which is a big deal - that’s why it matters. There was also a supercharger station built on the strip recently. Regardless of which side of the gun you’re on, still a hard left leaning city council. LA would approve it and not care
When charging took an hour, you could do stuff while you waited. As it stands now, it’s hard to commit to anything while you wait. You can’t have a meal in 20 minutes.
I agree with this. It hard to even use the rest room and go buy some snacks before the car is ready to go. Long trips are not an issue in any EV that can charge at 250kw or more.
Great video, Ryan! We took delivery of a Model Y with HW 4 on July 30th. We just received the update for FSD last night along with the update that includes the Spotify refresh. I tried FSD this morning and am surprised at how bad it is. It couldn’t complete one turn or intersection without disengaging. My friend has an older Model X with FSD and his seems a lot smoother and more capable. I’m wondering if HW 4 is part of the poor performance. Anyways, we bought with the referral so we have about 2 months left to test it out. Definitely doesn’t want to make me buy FSD at this point but hopefully V12 will change my mind whenever that becomes available for HW 4. With all that said, the car is absolutely incredible without FSD. Basic autopilot is amazing in traffic and long road trips. Thanks for all the great content you create. It helped us make the purchase. 🙂
The issue is not battery degradation due to fast charging but more that there’s a ~ 9% battery capacity loss over 1000 days or 2 years 9 months of charging. That’s a major loss of range in less than 3 years of ownership.
That fastcharger news about battery degradation is really great news to hear, as our Tesla Model Y long range AWD is a road tripper, at the moment it has 80% fastcharger verses home charging! I was a little worried about this until now, but I continue to only charge to 80% on or off the road and limit my min charge level at above 13% on arrival at a super charger!
I initially really enjoyed the honesty of this video, and the way you were able to accurately call out all the false promises of Tesla and try to steer customers in the safest direction. But after I noticed the Cybertruck model on your shelf, I started to think about how casually some fandoms don't realize the gravity of their faith. It's clear that you (and many Tesla fanatics) earnestly want these cars to deliver what was promised to you ages ago, and that's perfectly understandable. "For the mission!" Warning people to hold off while Tesla (eventually) "gets their software right" would make sense to, say, those hesitating to buy a video game until the developers iron out bugs. But therein lies the problem: this isn't a video game. We're talking about a mega billion-dollar corporation asking their fans to be beta testers for multi-thousand pound hunks of metal and glass hurling down interstates in public; not a jitter-free gaming experience. It's not a matter of sacrificing time and effort to get a game running smoothly for an enjoyable experience, it's quite literally a matter of life and death. Warning people not to plunk down $15k for "Full Self Driving" that delivers its promise of level 5 autonomy (which, let's be honest, will not happen for possibly decades) is fine to help people make wise investments, but having faith in a company which has sustained a con for this long seems reckless. Tesla not only encourages people to beta test, they make owners feel like they're providing a noble service to humanity with the data they provide to Tesla., not realizing they're actually guinea pigs. The casual nature in which you present the "heated swimming pool"--which is quite obviously a retrofitted garbage dumpster--at the supercharger station in Germany really drives it home how much you've sadly been bamboozled by this company. It's also hilarious to me, as a skeptic. I respectfully hope this rings some distant bells within the grey matter of any Tesla fan reading this.
Glad you're enjoying your fsd. My fsd makes driving more stressful. Definitely leaves a lot lacking. Navigate with autopilot seems to be the win for me.
I too find FSD an incredible tool. The key is to figure out when you can use it. Once the learning curve is behind you, it does reduce the overall stress significantly.
Are people praising FSD driving predominantly on city streets? Because on highways, EAP that includes NoA is exactly the same as FSD for 2/5th of the price.
@@mantan_rtw Actually, it's not. FSD behaves much better on highways than AP in it's current form. Few months ago, FSD city and highway was merged into a single stack, and FSD highway really works well (not flawless but still very useful).
On a road trip it's great. City driving? Not so much. It turns into emergency lanes, changes lanes into turn only lanes and not corrected itself, and mine has run through stop signs. Oh, and the aggressive lane change feature sucks. It's too aggressive and wants to change lanes for absolutely no reason. It's even changed into a toll lane when it 100% should not have.
Would never put total trust in the operation of the FSD, no matter if it was guaranteed by Elon himself to be perfect. Not taking my hands of the steering wheel while the car is in operation. Over many years I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a sure thing. Anything can happen and usually does.
@@zbyszanna have you seen the class action lawsuits in the US? The lawyers make millions in any settlement. I was notified about a class action lawsuit against Avis for some unclear language in their rental agreement. When it was settled, I got a 20% off coupon for my next rental and the lawyers got $5 million.
I have FSD. It’s amazing. It used to not be..lt was unusable on city streets. Now it’s amazing and just gets better. I see all the negative about it and yes 15K is a lot of money. But if you really use it, it’s actually amazing. Not perfect, but it’s safe and keeps you more relaxed, unlike what it used to be like.
Ryan, what I thought I heard from Elon was that version 12 would not be available for hardware 4 for six months but I believe owners will be able to use FSD Bata now.
I'm 100% in agreement with you on the state of FSD. I have a HW3 Model 3, and I rent FSD when Im going on a trip... and when I feel like having those neat extra visualizations and features. Most of what I care about is on enhanced autopilot, I'd probably buy that.. I never use the city streets.
People who have been involved with software development with multiple branches understand some of what Tesla is facing. If Tesla had the freedom to do so I expect it would not have introduced V4 hardware until V12 of FSD was ready for wide distribution. But software, especially AI software being what it is, was not ready when the scheduled V3 to V4 switch happened. Now Tesla must develop a V11 FSD for V4 hardware knowing that most of the effort is a waste in regards to advancing FSD. Perhaps Tesla's huge purchase of training hardware will soften this blow.
Hey Ryan. Had a national airlines 747 leave Christchurch early this morning heading to San Francisco. Rumor has its loaded with teslas heading back from winter testing.
Don't care about FSD, so I'm getting a Model Y shortly. Have to, because next year I can't get the rebate. And going with a competitor is pointless, because the markups at the dealerships are insane.
I find it clear that they already got a robust "dont trust the driver" thing implemented. Sometimes on autosteer, I dont even get a warning before it flips out and disables it for the rest of the drive. Perhaps thats because I let it go to the blue blinking thing, but otherwise I'd have to CONSTANTLY look at the screen to see if it says to yank the wheel.
I have been dubious about FSD for a long time. In my use case where I almost only drive locally FSD even if it worked perfectly is not worth $15k to me. It has concerned me that Tesla has been selling FSD for years, and only beta versions were delivered to a few of the many people who purchased the option. I know recently the beta group was increased. As a Tesla owner, I don't care. As TSLA investor, I really do care that Tesla isn't meeting it's promises. Shareholder along with FSD purchases are both taking hits for this.
Do you know you can get a refurbished model3 Ordered directly from tesla with less than 4k down payment and a total no more than 17 grand since it's refurbished
The subscription service makes a lot more sense for most people, and then if you sell the car or it’s written off you don’t need to worry about transferring or losing it
-My friend bought a new 2023 Model Y Long Range a few months ago, he already wants to sell it. -The mileage of 322 is a lie, its never over 252, he's averaging around 220 - 180. -He got the official tow hitch, it obliterates the battery if you have the slightest of load, he was under 1k lbs and its rated for several times that much; he barely made it 80miles before the battery was at 9% from 100%. -He says it rides rough for his back and joints and its not pleasant to drive, it took a few months to realize how bad it was. -The screen confuses him a bit, i did what i could to help him figure it out but he still forgets lots of little things and generally doesnt want to sift through menus; i instantly know he would have a far better time with dedicated buttons for things instead of searching through menus. -One day it was so hot that the screen just turned off and would not turn back on for several hours, this made all the controls unusable.
Just an FYI. I just got a new Model Y with the FSD X-fer program. With my first official update, which was pushed a few days ago, I now have FSD enabled. I was in the FSD program with my Model 3 previously. I'm probably an outlier, but I'm running 4.0 and FSD.
Sorry, but bad header. There should be two different versions of TESLA FSD: 1. Much lower priced private FSD for only private use. This would not allow FSD to be used as a robotaxi. 2. Higher priced robotaxi FSD. This would allow FSD to be used as both robotaxi and private car.
Thanks Ryan for all your helpful episodes. Just received FSD Beta software from update on 8/29. 23 Model Y (TX build) with HW4. Looking forward to trying it out.
I purchased a new Model X with hardware 4 almost 10 weeks ago. Since it was replacing a Model Y, I got an unexpected FSD subscription for three months. While Navigate on Autopilot worked from the start, FSD was "unavailable" until two days ago. But this version of FSD (11.4.4) isn't quite ready for prime time. It tried to lurch into oncoming traffic yesterday, then tried to run a stop sign. Then it disengaged with a strike for no apparent reason, with a warning that I wasn't paying attention! After trying to turn into an oncoming truck and missing a stop sign, I can assure you I was paying attention. At 76 I'm not sure this kind of excitement is good for me. I love the idea of FSD, but so far using it is disappointing. I will keep testing it until my free subscription expires, but at this point it is not worth anywhere near $15,000, and probably not worth $200 a month if I want to keep trying it. Love the car. Love the free supercharging for three years. But the jury is out on FSD.
Sam investment you pay $15000 for something that kind of works then they upgrade the hardware and your car is basically a brick with no hardware options available
Hi Ryan, really enjoy your shows. But on this one not so enjoyable you imply without data that Tesla FSD does not provide additional safety when using a mobile phone while driving - or do you have data to support this?
The problem is that full self-driving is still not a feature that is high on the list of priorities, even for the progressive and Tech Centric Tesla early adopters. Obviously, within that cohort, there's more interest in FSD than in any other, but I would bet that less than 50% of Tesla early adopters are all that hyped up about FSD. The percentage within the general public is much lower, suggesting that the actual value of FSD technology is going to be realized down the road. The other downside that is not considered is what happens once FSD Tech is widely adopted and people are no longer driving. They are going to lose the ability to do so safely. This is not something that is being discussed or considered. I already believed that my reliance on enhanced autopilot on road trips is making me a less competent driver if I'm not using the technology. I feel safer with it, but without it, I suspect I am not as safe as I used to be. This phenomenon of the degradation of skills as we hand over complex tasks to computers is something that needs more discussion and study.
"Seeing is believing." That is all we need to know about how Tesla has communicated with us. I always hear this, or that is coming soon, etc., but I know everything that Tesla or Elon said will come true in the end. I still love Tesla.🥰
me too - i fel as though he wants to have the best and beat everyone there. Imagine what would not happen if he didn't...love the P, amazing product for many reasons
The question is how much is the ability of a car to drive itself worth? I don’t think they’ll change the price of the cars when they solve the problem, so the cost of the software will have to go up massively to keep demand in check. Tesla is still production constrained.
Ok so when you're finished your 20 minite charge and there's still 69 minutes left on the movie do you have to move so someone else can charge? Will there be a $1 a minite no charging you're blocking a space rate?
This news about fast charging is great news. Thank you for telling us about this. I'm now going to stop telling others that Supercharging will affect the longevity of their battery. It obviously doesn't anymore.
Do you know you can get a refurbished model3 Ordered directly from tesla with less than 4k down payment and a total no more than 17 grand since it's refurbished
@@a.ctlyzer Tell me more. I'm in the market for a Tesla and I can't afford a new Tesla. I'm retired and I don't have the room in my taxes to get a full tax credit. I was thinking of going used, but I would need a used Tesla from 2021 and below $25,000 to get the tax break. You seem to be an answer to my prayers. Please, please tell me more.
Well, thanks for all this information. I got tired of waiting, now own the 2023 model Y LR vehicle, and have been driving it for a couple weeks now. Really enjoy the Hatchback style vehicle and don't see any problems with it. Yes, it has HW4 and the newer cameras. I have no desire or need to get FSD or EAP unless the pricing comes way down, which I don't foresee that happening. This video seems to be based on not having FSD working for HW4 which again doesn't matter to me. I wish As time goes on, hope they solve the "Fantom Braking" so we can enjoy the basic Auto Pilot with confidence the vehicle does not drastically slow down or slam on the brakes. Take care.
I read "lag HW3", as for the next 6 month HW3 will go live first then HW4. Not that anyone has to wait 6 months. It could be days or weeks for HW4 to receive what HW3 has. At some point HW4 will get releases first then HW3 will start to lag.
I can't understand why anyone who is on the phone in their car isn't using hands-free capability anyway. (And even then in fairly stress-free situations.)
BIG QUESTION: What Tesla owners on their phones are crashing? I have a hard time pushing the car to rear end other drivers. The car is literally built to not allow people to crash into other cars. Car driving into your lane? It makes a small adjustment. Weird road conditions? Big red flashing steering wheel and visible jerk in steering wheel (hard to miss). Most accidents you hear about it related to Teslas being hit by an ICE vehicle, not the other way around. ---- Tesla's can't be compared to mechanical vehicles in autosteer/FSD corrections ---- ICE vs EV accidents report need to be brought to us.
True FSD is still years away, the technology is half the issue, the other half is the cities and the road/fwy/hwy infrastructure. Paying for FSD is a pointless.
Hey Ryan. Point of correction. Although both Stantec Architecture and PCL Construction, the companies building the diner, have US branches, both are Canadian companies headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta.
Still missing permanent drive lighting front and back and that light turns off automaticly when leaving the car, it doesn't do that now if you manualy turned it on, and thats annoying! When on highway and taking over someone in front of you, it deccells allmost 300ft before even if you blink to take over, thats annoying as well, it is very slow to reaccelerate when pulling out from a slower in front. Yeah lots of small things to improve! 😁
So, unless you are planning to buy FSD at $15k+ within 5 years of ownership, HW4 doesn’t matter. Elon says their focus is HW3 compatibility right now. After 5 years of the tech comes out, and you have the money, trade in. Simple.
The comment about HW4 cars not having FSDbeta until yesterday is absolutely incorrect. I have had my 2023 Model S with FSDbeta since April of 2023. Delivery was on April 24th, and FSDbeta was served up about two weeks after that. Significant mistakes like this devalue your podcasts, Ryan.
Recommending my friends waiti 2 years for Teslas next generation platform vehicles. These are anticipated to be safer, cheaper, more reliable, and more easily repairable with their modular architecture. Recommending they buy TSLA in the meantime.
I think the model 3 highland is a great recommendation as the platform is mature and it will get a significant update. The new compact will be so new and there might be more teething problems or unforeseen issues. The crash cans can be cut off the giga castings and new ones bolted on. It’s likely the compact will be similar anyway.
Wish Tesla would put Canopies on their superchargers especially here in Florida. They had that in South Carolina and was blown away that it existed and really helps with cutting some heat on the cars while waiting. FULL FSD is B***S**T at the price that it is being sold. Not worth more than a couple grand at max., the autolane change needs to be made standard now, since competitors are including it in their Blue Cruise, SuperCruise etc., C’mon Man
Enhanced autopilot seems like something interesting... we can't get our fsd trial until our new hw4 model y gets an update that they said would be in the next week
If peak charging rates are reduced with a lot of fast charging, It seems like Tessla has mitigated the impacts of fast charging on the battery. I would not say that fast charging is not worse for the battery than level 2 charging. I would say Tesla manages the situation.
hw4 seems to be Elon stressing 'the best part is no part'. this is fine with me. If FREE to buy and FREE to fix, I'd prefer optical AND ultrasonic AND radar AND ir AND AND AND... but I'm taking delivery of a Model Y next week @ $15K less than it sold for last year, and that is before the tax credit. Elon is a business man.
It always struck me as funny that people would spend $15,000 to be a test subject to provide data for developing this technology. In 50 years of buying cars I’ve never spent more than 10k for any of them! Yeah…that’s crazy.
I look at FSD as a high risk / high reward investment. I have always kept my vehicles for more than 10 years so I knew I would not be selling them before robotaxi goes live. I do believe we are at most 3 years away, but more likely robotaxi will start small trials late next year. Once that happens my cars will probably we worth twice what I paid for them. You maybe think now that paying $15k is crazy, but what will you think if I end up getting paid $50,000+ each car to have it mostly drive me around to places I am going anyway. With those drives being safer and for the most part more comfortable than driving myself. I think it was a worthwhile investment. I acknowledge robotaxi may never happen, but the FSD is very close now so I think it is more like then not. Also there are already autonomous robotaxis out there so it's not like it's never been done now. Tesla has the opportunity to do it way better and make tons of money at it. I don't mind being part of that and providing data to help.
Hey, what happens if you buy the FSD and then you crash your car will insurance pay for that? Because Tesla will not let you transfer it to a new car. Or if you just subscriber monthly, what happens then how does the car evaluate if it’s totaled?
![[Sub Thai] APT. - ROSÉ & Bruno Mars](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bYjhzP8x_uc/mqdefault.jpg)
What about the model Y? Did I miss anything?
All the other commenters are so eager to talk about other side topics covered in this video, such as FSD. You're one of the few that realized the subject heading wasn't directly addressed.
FSD Hardware 4 is behind Hardware 3 in functionality for at least the next 6 months. The implication being that new Model Ys are oddly missing functionality. That’s all I got from it.
I respectfully disagree that “basic autopilot software is great” on a Tesla. We have owned a Model 3 for 2 years. On long road trips I still experience phantom braking on autopilot, sometimes dangerously in front of other cars. This is not the case with our 2016 Subaru Outback where the Eyesight cruise control has never done that. Come on, Tesla, fix this DANGEROUS flaw!
I study and model battery degradation and I have worked for several EV makers. The fast charge study by Recurrent is not detailed enough. It doesn't say whether or how it controlled for mileage, climate, average charging time (depth of charge). The most important issue it missed is it is using estimated range from the dashboard rather than real range. The whole conclusion hinges on how accurate or inaccurate Tesla's battery health and range algorithm estimate the state of health of the battery, and how the SOH estimator translate into range estimation. To give an example, my cell phone estimates my battery to last for 12 hours brand new but in actuality it will only last 10. Without a real range test, the estimator output is worthless, and hence the whole conclusion is baseless.
News about frequent DC fast charging as not harmful to battery life is welcomed. But, we don’t hear enough about the harm of leaving a conventional NMC battery near 100% for a long time.
To extend battery life, avoid leaving it near 100% for several hours or days. When preparing for a road trip, schedule home charging to complete near 95-100% just prior to departure.
Being this Whiney about Fsd really ruins this podcast.
I'm buying a Model Y next year when my Model 3 lease expires. I'll get a Long Range with Enhanced Auto-Pilot. I won't buy FSD at the current price, probably will rent FSD a month at a time depending on my travels.
We appreciate all you due diligence! It’s well received ❤
In related news, Ryan Shaw to inventor of fire: “eeew there is smoke in my eyes”.
I just drove 40 miles on FSD 11.4.7, from unmarked back roads to I95 with zero interventions.
Yes Tesla is not perfect but they are revolutionizing transportation in multiple ways, please tone down the drama.
As a Computer scientist I have to tell you: IF Tesla really achieves FSD, it will for certain not be backward compatible to HW3 or even HW4, as Elon has promised. Software moves much faster than hardware and by the time they figure out a way to have a General AI model, a completely set of hardware will be needed.
Unless you are buying this because it is a cool feature to have in a car, don't bother using your money on it. This is not an investment and your car will not drive itself in 10 years time. You are paying to be an Alpha tester for some big company.
Why shouldn't we buy a Model Y?
If you are buying the car for the FSD, you are liable to be disappointed; at least for the first, many months. If you are buying the car for an excellent experience driving it yourself, go for it!
"Chicks love it." That's a reason to pay $15,000 for FSD that doesn't work well, or won't work yet on your H4 car?@@Patriot3
@@jerrymcintire7902Works for me!
@@jerrymcintire7902our model Y with hardware 4 has FSD beta. We've been playing with it. It works really good.... except in construction zones.
Why did you say hdw4 doesn't have FSD?
Because it doesn’t have USS, the windshield wipers turns on for no reason, ghost braking, lack of build quality, and because driving in the rain that vision FSD “thingy” doesn’t work at all
I appreciate your excellent research and reporting.
It's a bit confusing with the amenities offered at some of the new charging areas because staying too long gets you an extra charge and texts to move your vehicle out of the stall so others can charge?? Seems counter to the goal of faster charges.
7001 Santa Monica Blvd is not in Hollywood but in West Hollywood - a different city from Hollywood which is LA. The difference matters
I consider anything east of La Brea to be Hollywood, if you are in that part of the neiborhood you would know why
@@weho_brian I live closer to boys town - but musk is all but boycotted by the gay culture. To get approval to build would mean the city planning etc. approved which is a big deal - that’s why it matters. There was also a supercharger station built on the strip recently. Regardless of which side of the gun you’re on, still a hard left leaning city council. LA would approve it and not care
I rent a Tesla once a month and I wish they had a renter section on the app so we could use some of the features.
When charging took an hour, you could do stuff while you waited. As it stands now, it’s hard to commit to anything while you wait. You can’t have a meal in 20 minutes.
I agree with this. It hard to even use the rest room and go buy some snacks before the car is ready to go. Long trips are not an issue in any EV that can charge at 250kw or more.
Never buy a car because of tech it might have in the future. Buy it for the tech/features it comes with today.
Thank you for noting the dangers of distracted driving.
Great video, Ryan! We took delivery of a Model Y with HW 4 on July 30th. We just received the update for FSD last night along with the update that includes the Spotify refresh.
I tried FSD this morning and am surprised at how bad it is. It couldn’t complete one turn or intersection without disengaging.
My friend has an older Model X with FSD and his seems a lot smoother and more capable. I’m wondering if HW 4 is part of the poor performance.
Anyways, we bought with the referral so we have about 2 months left to test it out. Definitely doesn’t want to make me buy FSD at this point but hopefully V12 will change my mind whenever that becomes available for HW 4.
With all that said, the car is absolutely incredible without FSD. Basic autopilot is amazing in traffic and long road trips.
Thanks for all the great content you create. It helped us make the purchase. 🙂
Totally agree, cell phones is a increasing crazy problem in Australia too..
But I'm talking about everyone in a car and not just people in a Tesla!
Thank you. I will follow your advice and not buy a Tesla Model Y. I do not wish to be stuck.
The issue is not battery degradation due to fast charging but more that there’s a ~ 9% battery capacity loss over 1000 days or 2 years 9 months of charging. That’s a major loss of range in less than 3 years of ownership.
I am still waiting for the content where it’s mentioned not to by new Model Y …
That fastcharger news about battery degradation is really great news to hear, as our Tesla Model Y long range AWD is a road tripper, at the moment it has 80% fastcharger verses home charging! I was a little worried about this until now, but I continue to only charge to 80% on or off the road and limit my min charge level at above 13% on arrival at a super charger!
An obvious addendum to this is that while FC itself is not a notable issue, driving to 0 or charging to 100 is. Don't do that if it can be avoided.
Sweet! Looking forward to checking out the diner 🍔 🍿
I initially really enjoyed the honesty of this video, and the way you were able to accurately call out all the false promises of Tesla and try to steer customers in the safest direction. But after I noticed the Cybertruck model on your shelf, I started to think about how casually some fandoms don't realize the gravity of their faith.
It's clear that you (and many Tesla fanatics) earnestly want these cars to deliver what was promised to you ages ago, and that's perfectly understandable. "For the mission!" Warning people to hold off while Tesla (eventually) "gets their software right" would make sense to, say, those hesitating to buy a video game until the developers iron out bugs. But therein lies the problem: this isn't a video game. We're talking about a mega billion-dollar corporation asking their fans to be beta testers for multi-thousand pound hunks of metal and glass hurling down interstates in public; not a jitter-free gaming experience.
It's not a matter of sacrificing time and effort to get a game running smoothly for an enjoyable experience, it's quite literally a matter of life and death.
Warning people not to plunk down $15k for "Full Self Driving" that delivers its promise of level 5 autonomy (which, let's be honest, will not happen for possibly decades) is fine to help people make wise investments, but having faith in a company which has sustained a con for this long seems reckless. Tesla not only encourages people to beta test, they make owners feel like they're providing a noble service to humanity with the data they provide to Tesla., not realizing they're actually guinea pigs.
The casual nature in which you present the "heated swimming pool"--which is quite obviously a retrofitted garbage dumpster--at the supercharger station in Germany really drives it home how much you've sadly been bamboozled by this company. It's also hilarious to me, as a skeptic.
I respectfully hope this rings some distant bells within the grey matter of any Tesla fan reading this.
MY GOD, the commercials that TH-cam is interrupting your shows with are THE WORST! 🤮
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Love my FSD and totally worth it. Such a help on long trips and great on some areas with low speed limits!
Glad you're enjoying your fsd. My fsd makes driving more stressful. Definitely leaves a lot lacking. Navigate with autopilot seems to be the win for me.
I too find FSD an incredible tool. The key is to figure out when you can use it. Once the learning curve is behind you, it does reduce the overall stress significantly.
Are people praising FSD driving predominantly on city streets? Because on highways, EAP that includes NoA is exactly the same as FSD for 2/5th of the price.
@@mantan_rtw Actually, it's not. FSD behaves much better on highways than AP in it's current form. Few months ago, FSD city and highway was merged into a single stack, and FSD highway really works well (not flawless but still very useful).
On a road trip it's great. City driving? Not so much. It turns into emergency lanes, changes lanes into turn only lanes and not corrected itself, and mine has run through stop signs. Oh, and the aggressive lane change feature sucks. It's too aggressive and wants to change lanes for absolutely no reason. It's even changed into a toll lane when it 100% should not have.
The wisest thing Marques Brownlee ever said: NEVER, under any circumstances, buy a tech product on the promise of future software updates
100%
Ryan, not sure if you have seen yet but model 3 highland is now available to order in New Zealand ex Giga Shanghai
1:56 Covina is very convenient. Right off the freeway and with an 85C
My 2023 Model S just got the FSD beta software upgrade 8/29/23. Been waiting since March 2023. Thanks for these videos all of them are great.
Until Tesla can solve the phantom braking issue I don’t believe they can provide a realiable self driving experience.
Would never put total trust in the operation of the FSD, no matter if it was guaranteed by Elon himself to be perfect. Not taking my hands of the steering wheel while the car is in operation. Over many years I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a sure thing. Anything can happen and usually does.
I expect an eventual class action lawsuit over FSD and Tesla will need to refund some or all of the money customers spent on FSD
@@zbyszanna have you seen the class action lawsuits in the US? The lawyers make millions in any settlement. I was notified about a class action lawsuit against Avis for some unclear language in their rental agreement. When it was settled, I got a 20% off coupon for my next rental and the lawyers got $5 million.
I have FSD. It’s amazing. It used to not be..lt was unusable on city streets. Now it’s amazing and just gets better. I see all the negative about it and yes 15K is a lot of money. But if you really use it, it’s actually amazing. Not perfect, but it’s safe and keeps you more relaxed, unlike what it used to be like.
Ryan, what I thought I heard from Elon was that version 12 would not be available for hardware 4 for six months but I believe owners will be able to use FSD Bata now.
I'm 100% in agreement with you on the state of FSD. I have a HW3 Model 3, and I rent FSD when Im going on a trip... and when I feel like having those neat extra visualizations and features. Most of what I care about is on enhanced autopilot, I'd probably buy that.. I never use the city streets.
This is but noise. Everyone will have forgotten once the products are out for sale.
One of your best videos. Thanks for all your time and putting this out!
Thank you for this video. I just bought a LRMY with HW4 and was confused why the 3 month trial wasn’t working.
You have the FSD, just not the FSD beta. But with recent update 2023.26.11, the beta is now available for those with HW4
People who have been involved with software development with multiple branches understand some of what Tesla is facing. If Tesla had the freedom to do so I expect it would not have introduced V4 hardware until V12 of FSD was ready for wide distribution. But software, especially AI software being what it is, was not ready when the scheduled V3 to V4 switch happened. Now Tesla must develop a V11 FSD for V4 hardware knowing that most of the effort is a waste in regards to advancing FSD. Perhaps Tesla's huge purchase of training hardware will soften this blow.
Hey Ryan. Had a national airlines 747 leave Christchurch early this morning heading to San Francisco. Rumor has its loaded with teslas heading back from winter testing.
We need supercharging incentives for ppl who live in apartments. I believe more ppl would buy if there were discounts
Don't care about FSD, so I'm getting a Model Y shortly. Have to, because next year I can't get the rebate. And going with a competitor is pointless, because the markups at the dealerships are insane.
I think it’s incredible (even given delays), that actual FSD appears right around the corner for the older hardware, considering the v12 demo!
I find it clear that they already got a robust "dont trust the driver" thing implemented. Sometimes on autosteer, I dont even get a warning before it flips out and disables it for the rest of the drive. Perhaps thats because I let it go to the blue blinking thing, but otherwise I'd have to CONSTANTLY look at the screen to see if it says to yank the wheel.
Maybe Elon should just give us Autopilot lane changes for free until FSD actually happens...
I have been dubious about FSD for a long time. In my use case where I almost only drive locally FSD even if it worked perfectly is not worth $15k to me. It has concerned me that Tesla has been selling FSD for years, and only beta versions were delivered to a few of the many people who purchased the option. I know recently the beta group was increased. As a Tesla owner, I don't care. As TSLA investor, I really do care that Tesla isn't meeting it's promises. Shareholder along with FSD purchases are both taking hits for this.
Yea. Don't you have to also constantly monitor and be ready to takeover anyway. So you may as well just drive.
Do you know you can get a refurbished model3 Ordered directly from tesla with less than 4k down payment and a total no more than 17 grand since it's refurbished
@@AORD72 a 4-hour road trip with FSD feels like a 15-minute drive without it, even though you need to monitor it. The difference is night and day.
$200/month to try it. You don't have to buy it.
The subscription service makes a lot more sense for most people, and then if you sell the car or it’s written off you don’t need to worry about transferring or losing it
-My friend bought a new 2023 Model Y Long Range a few months ago, he already wants to sell it.
-The mileage of 322 is a lie, its never over 252, he's averaging around 220 - 180.
-He got the official tow hitch, it obliterates the battery if you have the slightest of load, he was under 1k lbs and its rated for several times that much; he barely made it 80miles before the battery was at 9% from 100%.
-He says it rides rough for his back and joints and its not pleasant to drive, it took a few months to realize how bad it was.
-The screen confuses him a bit, i did what i could to help him figure it out but he still forgets lots of little things and generally doesnt want to sift through menus; i instantly know he would have a far better time with dedicated buttons for things instead of searching through menus.
-One day it was so hot that the screen just turned off and would not turn back on for several hours, this made all the controls unusable.
Just an FYI. I just got a new Model Y with the FSD X-fer program. With my first official update, which was pushed a few days ago, I now have FSD enabled. I was in the FSD program with my Model 3 previously. I'm probably an outlier, but I'm running 4.0 and FSD.
Sorry, but bad header. There should be two different versions of TESLA FSD:
1. Much lower priced private FSD for only private use. This would not allow FSD to be used as a robotaxi.
2. Higher priced robotaxi FSD. This would allow FSD to be used as both robotaxi and private car.
Thanks Ryan for all your helpful episodes. Just received FSD Beta software from update on 8/29. 23 Model Y (TX build) with HW4. Looking forward to trying it out.
I purchased a new Model X with hardware 4 almost 10 weeks ago. Since it was replacing a Model Y, I got an unexpected FSD subscription for three months. While Navigate on Autopilot worked from the start, FSD was "unavailable" until two days ago. But this version of FSD (11.4.4) isn't quite ready for prime time. It tried to lurch into oncoming traffic yesterday, then tried to run a stop sign. Then it disengaged with a strike for no apparent reason, with a warning that I wasn't paying attention! After trying to turn into an oncoming truck and missing a stop sign, I can assure you I was paying attention. At 76 I'm not sure this kind of excitement is good for me. I love the idea of FSD, but so far using it is disappointing. I will keep testing it until my free subscription expires, but at this point it is not worth anywhere near $15,000, and probably not worth $200 a month if I want to keep trying it. Love the car. Love the free supercharging for three years. But the jury is out on FSD.
Self-driving sucks- he should give it up. Also, was in Gainesville, FL a couple of weeks ago, and half the chargers did not work.
Sam investment you pay $15000 for something that kind of works then they upgrade the hardware and your car is basically a brick with no hardware options available
Hi Ryan, really enjoy your shows. But on this one not so enjoyable you imply without data that Tesla FSD does not provide additional safety when using a mobile phone while driving - or do you have data to support this?
The problem is that full self-driving is still not a feature that is high on the list of priorities, even for the progressive and Tech Centric Tesla early adopters. Obviously, within that cohort, there's more interest in FSD than in any other, but I would bet that less than 50% of Tesla early adopters are all that hyped up about FSD. The percentage within the general public is much lower, suggesting that the actual value of FSD technology is going to be realized down the road. The other downside that is not considered is what happens once FSD Tech is widely adopted and people are no longer driving. They are going to lose the ability to do so safely. This is not something that is being discussed or considered. I already believed that my reliance on enhanced autopilot on road trips is making me a less competent driver if I'm not using the technology. I feel safer with it, but without it, I suspect I am not as safe as I used to be. This phenomenon of the degradation of skills as we hand over complex tasks to computers is something that needs more discussion and study.
Thanks for Your awesome report on FSD ! I will wait before my future purchase of a Model Y !
The 6month delay is about V12, NOT FSD beta.
"Seeing is believing." That is all we need to know about how Tesla has communicated with us. I always hear this, or that is coming soon, etc., but I know everything that Tesla or Elon said will come true in the end. I still love Tesla.🥰
me too - i fel as though he wants to have the best and beat everyone there. Imagine what would not happen if he didn't...love the P, amazing product for many reasons
There are just so many issues related to FSD that personally I can't see risking $15k on this.
The question is how much is the ability of a car to drive itself worth? I don’t think they’ll change the price of the cars when they solve the problem, so the cost of the software will have to go up massively to keep demand in check. Tesla is still production constrained.
Awesome preso, Ryan!
Mr Shaw,The UP TO DATE MUSKETEER !
Ok so when you're finished your 20 minite charge and there's still 69 minutes left on the movie do you have to move so someone else can charge? Will there be a $1 a minite no charging you're blocking a space rate?
I don't really understand who this is targeted at. Dining makes sense but who's going to watch a movie during a road trip?
This news about fast charging is great news. Thank you for telling us about this. I'm now going to stop telling others that Supercharging will affect the longevity of their battery. It obviously doesn't anymore.
Do you know you can get a refurbished model3 Ordered directly from tesla with less than 4k down payment and a total no more than 17 grand since it's refurbished
@@a.ctlyzer Tell me more. I'm in the market for a Tesla and I can't afford a new Tesla. I'm retired and I don't have the room in my taxes to get a full tax credit. I was thinking of going used, but I would need a used Tesla from 2021 and below $25,000 to get the tax break. You seem to be an answer to my prayers. Please, please tell me more.
@@joelado what model will you be getting?
@@a.ctlyzer A Model 3 hoping for a AWD LR
Well, thanks for all this information. I got tired of waiting, now own the 2023 model Y LR vehicle, and have been driving it for a couple weeks now. Really enjoy the Hatchback style vehicle and don't see any problems with it. Yes, it has HW4 and the newer cameras.
I have no desire or need to get FSD or EAP unless the pricing comes way down, which I don't foresee that happening. This video seems to be based on not having FSD working for HW4 which again doesn't matter to me.
I wish As time goes on, hope they solve the "Fantom Braking" so we can enjoy the basic Auto Pilot with confidence the vehicle does not drastically slow down or slam on the brakes.
Take care.
I read "lag HW3", as for the next 6 month HW3 will go live first then HW4. Not that anyone has to wait 6 months. It could be days or weeks for HW4 to receive what HW3 has. At some point HW4 will get releases first then HW3 will start to lag.
I can't understand why anyone who is on the phone in their car isn't using hands-free capability anyway. (And even then in fairly stress-free situations.)
If you think about it, practically, there is no hardware for imagery to train the neural net
Has Tesla said when new colors would be available in the US?
BIG QUESTION: What Tesla owners on their phones are crashing? I have a hard time pushing the car to rear end other drivers. The car is literally built to not allow people to crash into other cars. Car driving into your lane? It makes a small adjustment. Weird road conditions? Big red flashing steering wheel and visible jerk in steering wheel (hard to miss). Most accidents you hear about it related to Teslas being hit by an ICE vehicle, not the other way around.
---- Tesla's can't be compared to mechanical vehicles in autosteer/FSD corrections ----
ICE vs EV accidents report need to be brought to us.
I think it depends on how you have your navigation and safety measures set up on your profile.
I have a model 3 built July 2023 and self park and Sumon is not available with FSD😢
If I want a negative take on any Tesla news, I watch this channel just to keep me from becoming too optimistic of Tesla. Lol
True FSD is still years away, the technology is half the issue, the other half is the cities and the road/fwy/hwy infrastructure. Paying for FSD is a pointless.
Now if Elon could integrate Audible....
Hey Ryan. Point of correction. Although both Stantec Architecture and PCL Construction, the companies building the diner, have US branches, both are Canadian companies headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta.
And the funny part is no Tesla, no RS channel....
Still missing permanent drive lighting front and back and that light turns off automaticly when leaving the car, it doesn't do that now if you manualy turned it on, and thats annoying! When on highway and taking over someone in front of you, it deccells allmost 300ft before even if you blink to take over, thats annoying as well, it is very slow to reaccelerate when pulling out from a slower in front. Yeah lots of small things to improve! 😁
I got my model Y on August 1st and it has hw3. It actually makes sense because there are way more Teslas on hw3
me too and it was the biggest secret ever as was buying the car in general. love it but that was maddening.
me too, i was initially disappointed about not getting hw4 but in reality since i dont use FSD it doesn't really matter
@@weho_brian HW4 cameras have higher resolution. (for Sentry recording, backup camera, left/right turn video)
As of September 1st, the website has F.S.D. reduced to $12,000.
So, unless you are planning to buy FSD at $15k+ within 5 years of ownership, HW4 doesn’t matter.
Elon says their focus is HW3 compatibility right now.
After 5 years of the tech comes out, and you have the money, trade in. Simple.
Thanks Ryan.
The camera is working. The rental I had told me to stop looking at my phone.
The comment about HW4 cars not having FSDbeta until yesterday is absolutely incorrect. I have had my 2023 Model S with FSDbeta since April of 2023. Delivery was on April 24th, and FSDbeta was served up about two weeks after that. Significant mistakes like this devalue your podcasts, Ryan.
HW is not a big deal, only if you want FSD. Its like having a 4k display on a 13 in monitor, there's no point
Recommending my friends waiti 2 years for Teslas next generation platform vehicles. These are anticipated to be safer, cheaper, more reliable, and more easily repairable with their modular architecture. Recommending they buy TSLA in the meantime.
I think the model 3 highland is a great recommendation as the platform is mature and it will get a significant update. The new compact will be so new and there might be more teething problems or unforeseen issues. The crash cans can be cut off the giga castings and new ones bolted on. It’s likely the compact will be similar anyway.
‘Fun stops’ ! I’m still one of those in the minority-battery swap stations like driving through a touchless car wash!
Wow, existing teslas new inventory on model y dropped another $4k. It now costs $43920 for a base 279 range model y. Could it be under $40k soon?!
It’s funny that he is adding all this stuff to charging stations. Is it a charging station or a dive in theater with Tesla chargers?
Do the new 2024 Model 3s have Ultrasonic Parking Sensors?
Wish Tesla would put Canopies on their superchargers especially here in Florida. They had that in South Carolina and was blown away that it existed and really helps with cutting some heat on the cars while waiting. FULL FSD is B***S**T at the price that it is being sold. Not worth more than a couple grand at max., the autolane change needs to be made standard now, since competitors are including it in their Blue Cruise, SuperCruise etc., C’mon Man
Enhanced autopilot seems like something interesting... we can't get our fsd trial until our new hw4 model y gets an update that they said would be in the next week
If peak charging rates are reduced with a lot of fast charging, It seems like Tessla has mitigated the impacts of fast charging on the battery. I would not say that fast charging is not worse for the battery than level 2 charging. I would say Tesla manages the situation.
Ryan, how does frequent supercharge effect LFP batteries?
Having two battery chemistries always introduces so much confusion in the resulting chat.
hw4 seems to be Elon stressing 'the best part is no part'. this is fine with me. If FREE to buy and FREE to fix, I'd prefer optical AND ultrasonic AND radar AND ir AND AND AND... but I'm taking delivery of a Model Y next week @ $15K less than it sold for last year, and that is before the tax credit. Elon is a business man.
Tesla can't even fix phantom braking...there is no way FSD is going to work anytime soon.
I had FSD with my Model X 2020 but lost it when I traded in for a 2022 refresh x. I won’t get FSD again. It was not worth it when I had my 2020 X.
It always struck me as funny that people would spend $15,000 to be a test subject to provide data for developing this technology. In 50 years of buying cars I’ve never spent more than 10k for any of them! Yeah…that’s crazy.
I look at FSD as a high risk / high reward investment. I have always kept my vehicles for more than 10 years so I knew I would not be selling them before robotaxi goes live. I do believe we are at most 3 years away, but more likely robotaxi will start small trials late next year.
Once that happens my cars will probably we worth twice what I paid for them. You maybe think now that paying $15k is crazy, but what will you think if I end up getting paid $50,000+ each car to have it mostly drive me around to places I am going anyway. With those drives being safer and for the most part more comfortable than driving myself. I think it was a worthwhile investment. I acknowledge robotaxi may never happen, but the FSD is very close now so I think it is more like then not. Also there are already autonomous robotaxis out there so it's not like it's never been done now. Tesla has the opportunity to do it way better and make tons of money at it. I don't mind being part of that and providing data to help.
Hey, what happens if you buy the FSD and then you crash your car will insurance pay for that? Because Tesla will not let you transfer it to a new car. Or if you just subscriber monthly, what happens then how does the car evaluate if it’s totaled?
I don’t see why hardware 4 is lagging behind hardware 3 if HW4 is more advanced
HW4 has higher resolution cameras and also placed at different angles. I guess they needed to train on the new videos.
@@Trust_but_Verify makes sense