Coating a Car Before PPF? A Major Controversy! | 992 GT3 Touring
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2023
- In typical OG fashion, we're here sparking up some controversy in hopes of discovering something that could be worthwhile. Here's my logic on why I want to try this out.
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Matt, 2016: Coatings suck. PPF looks weird.
Matt 2023: Imma put a coating UNDER my PPF, then I’m gonna PPF the car and then coat it AGAIN!
😅
We love you’re not afraid to change your mind Matt. Stay real.
Ha, ha... It's true.
May you be relieved from the issues that stop you from driving. Amen
Amen
s😂
This is insane !
Coating before PPF then Ceramic Coating over it...
The car just becomes the boy in the bubble.
Matt should call it The Big Mac protection combo 🤪
I’m a PPF installer for a couple years now and I’ve installed film on coated cars. It’s not that I can’t be installed, definitely can. But it just makes the install much harder and prone to failing. Specially on dark colored cars where we use more soap then usual on the slip solution to avoid tack marks. But with a coating you end up getting a lot more blemishes during the install, specially adhesive shifting. Which occurs when you squeegee a area to lock down the film and then you have to do some sort of stretch to fit the film. Because the film doesn’t tack as strong as bare paint, the film moves after being squeegeed and rolls the adhesive under, leaving some little adhesive bumps under the film. Also gotta be a little more careful when washing the car after because the exposed edges lift much easier. But other then that, should be just fine.
We watched it, see you soon!
Ah crap... Ha, ha...
It was David Fermani he’s a legend in the detailing community. I’ve seen him make a lot of posts that I immediately thought were wrong but I know better than to challenge him like everyone else does, so I start chasing information and he’s always right or he wouldn’t post. Coatings can be “slick” or “tacky”, hydrophobic or hydrophilic.
Whenever I see David make a post, I cant help but go through all the comments 😅
@@platinum.mobile.detail brother I do the exact same thing! It’s funny to see how many guys with a year or two under their belt tell him he’s wrong or blatantly ripping people off. David wouldn’t comment unless he was absolutely certain he was right.
@@atdautospa I know right! I try and answer the odd question to help people out but there's so many "experts" already who clearly have too much time on their hands. The group should be called detailing for drama 😂
I have always detailed / polished mob cars before PPF and before PPF I did a full Menzerna Power lock plus before the PPF. It always worked perfectly and when needed to remove PPF it went silky smooth. You are not the first one thinking of this and I experienced it on a 991.2 GT3RS, A 2023 Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo, Audi R8 V10 2019 all with nothing but amazing results.
Slowing down to enjoy the process and knowing what you have is huge and has been a game changer for me. Even though you are on a completely on another level, the same exact feeling is definitely mutual. I've been so focused on building up tools, products and knowledge to achieve proper excellence that I have not dialed in my Redline yet. You may have noticed some scratches last year while you were in town but most everything in my life has been a progression and I love the phrase my buddy came up with many years ago of "fixing stupid"!
I am an Opti-Coat Pro installer for almost a decade and PPF installer. I have applied vinyl over pro plus and it had no issues on a daily driver for 36 months. It removed easier however.
Optimum coatings definitely have a grabby feel and not as slick as other Si02 coatings. I would imagine that in most cases PPF would grab just fine. The only areas I forsee potentially lifting in time, would be the deep recesses.
I think this will give Ryan somewhat more of a challenge when laying the film in the valleys, but I can't say for certain.
Keep us updated on this longterm Matt.
I drove for the first time in a month after I badly injured my leg. It was absolutely wonderful. I really hope you can get through your driving issues, because I really want to see driving videos in the mountains
Yvan's recommendation has always been to go in circles, simply because it lessens the chances of high spots. His argument is that when you go in straight lines and reach the end of your pass, it has a greater chance of leaving a high spot.
Regarding applicators, I really like the microfiber ones that have the barrier in them to prevent the coating from soaking in. Autofiber has them, and TRC also collaborated with Autofiber for their Pearl Puck applicators.
Yvans nothing but a salesman. He uses wheel brushes on paint lmao.
@@1209MArky To be fair, Matt and even Larry at AMMO NYC are both salesmen, too
Each video, every email, every giveaway, and every IG post is an ad at some level. They're selling products through providing knowledge of techniques, reviews, and watch views with enough earnings to pay staff and themselves.
@@utbigpapa finally someone understands this, everyone gets mad at matt if their mosmatic fitting is leaking “ hes just hype!” im like matt doesn’t even produce it, mosmatic does you idiot
@@1209MArky those flag tipped brushes (when clean and not used on wheels) are safe and don't scratch paint. Salesman or not, the guys knows what he is doing and anyone detailing for money (particularly for the "average" customer) should be paying very close attention to him. Following his strategies and methods can mean the difference between having a thriving/profitable business, and getting burned out/injured and barely eeking out a living.
I don't know if it's the right procedure or not, but I'm enjoying watching this process. Fun fun videos. Thx.
I have seen the car in person. The paint is absolutely gorgeous and Matt has definitely put some elbow grease on it. Car came out really nice. Well done man.
I’m a Autobody painter and get a new truck every couple to few years. I’m a heavy Beadmaker user and actually apply it before PPF on my own vehicles. I have never had a problem with lifting, and when time to remove it. It comes off fantastic. What Matt is doing makes perfect sense to me 👍🏻
If you only keep your car for a year you don’t really know how the ppf will hold up over a longer period of time
@@555fourthstreet8 as you could imagine watching this channel my trucks are in extremely good shape, and often my friends want to buy them so I have seen it lasts. Also I said I keep them 2 or 3 years.
@@JR-ho5qm my fault. Thought you said you get a new one every year but what did you meaning watching the channel would mean what?
@@555fourthstreet8 I think that Matt attracts a certain audience that would be likely to take extreme care of there stuff.
are you prepping the surface with IPA before installing. Because if so that’ll completely remove beadmaker
I’m glad I’m not the only one who had this thought and whether the ppf would be even better with a coating underneath
I have never had ppf come off or bubble. The last Coat is not a full blown fancy coating but it works really well.
Great video Matt, it was a pleasure to swing by and get you opticoat pro to give this myth an ending.
Glad you addressed this. Nobody wants to touch this subject. I’m NYC oldest same location Xpel Dealer and my 3 year old demo SRT is coated prior to film. No issues with R/R.
GREAT JOB MATT !! HAS A HELL OF A SHINE !! JESSE VIA LAS VEGAS
You’re right about PPF aging Matt. I’m taking mine off the front end of the Tesla next year. It will be 5 years old with about 60K miles by then. I just polished and recoated it. It’s looking good but it’s getting a bit worn.
Matt, the shirt says it best. Rogue, you go do you. If you need someone to drive you, I'm your guy😂
I apply The Last Coat before applying the ppf onto the car. I believe this allows the paint to be protected when the ppf is removed someday. Body shop guys will tell you sometimes the ppf pulls the paint off the car.
Understand that you don’t care about xpel film warranty but putting any coating besides their fusion line on top of their PPF voids the warranty. Also- looking forward to hearing about how this idea turned out to be against what the installer recommends. Kind of a standard to remove coatings before applying PPF, I would hate to try to apply xpel film over a coating.
Good luck!
Great video Matt. As always you are a pioneer and willing to push the status quo. A couple of noteworthy comments; Opti-Coat Pro is a pure silicon carbide (SiC) ceramic coating. OCP is a matrix that is formed within the clear coat where it cross-links. There is no rejuvenation or “topper” product for OCP due to the SiC nature. OCP should be installed in a circular motion using the foam applicator supplied. Applying in a circular motion reduces the likelihood of high spots. When removing OCP you only need one towel as you are only removing what high spots may be present as the coating is going into the clear coat rather than suspending itself on top of the clear coat like a traditional Si02 coating would, hence why the two-towel methods are used. The use of OPT Paint Prep is important as it ensures the best bonding possible of the coating to the surface and helps in the self-leveling of the coating. Dr. G is a Doctor of organic chemistry and he use to work for paint manufacturers developing clear coats before starting Optimum Polymer Technologies and Opti-Coat. He still works with clear coat manufacturers consulting with them on clear coat formulations. The only way to remove OCP is mechanically with heavy compounding or sanding. You need to remove approximately 2-3 microns of clear coat to get it off. OCP is an extremely "rubbery" feeling for the first hour or so after installation. OCP takes 30 days to fully cure. I would think it would be best to wait for the full period before applying PPF to reduce any likelihood of PPF not bonding or the ceramic coating not being completely cured and causing issues.
Wow!
Good information. Thanks for sharing
@@RayNLA No problem Ray, appreciate your comment.
"I dont want anybody fricking touching my doors cauz they gonna scrach the crap out of the paint!" -Matt Moreman (2023)
This quote should be available on a Displate type thing! I love it!
Hey Matt, i’m with you I much prefer a slick coating. I honestly think I like the feel of it more than the look. Tacky Coding, Perfect place for it underneath PPF. and a factory scratch is that a standalone option or is it part of a package? Have a great one.
I like the idea and it kinda makes sense here. You have a coating that cross links into the paint and bonds. There's no particulates like you say just a pure matrix that goes into the paint. With it being grabby you may have hit a home run
+ the 3 weeks curing time before PPF will be the winner i think, the surface will be more than ready for PPF and Ryan and the guys wont even notice !
It’s less grabby with the optimum blue foam applicator. But interesting idea. Looking forward to the PPF install and if Ryan notices.
Matt, I've had Xpel on my 718 and GT3 this year and STEK on my SS1LE - the STEK film looks so much better. Much less orange peel, better clarity, it's beautiful. Try looking into it before you commit to xpel on this car
Matt’s white 911 GT3 RS was completely done with STEK 2+ years ago.
th-cam.com/video/Weu-3g1ZQtQ/w-d-xo.html
I like STEK Dynoshield more too, but Ryan is an XPEL installer. To me, it's more about the guy than the film.
im interested to see how this works out. My worry would be that the PPF doesnt stick well. I have a rebel green mini on its way to me and im hoping it isnt as much of a pain to correct as yours was.
Something about these videos is so therapeutic.
I remember telling Ryan that I was going to coat my M3 before bringing it in for PPF at APG, and he specifically instructed me not to coat the areas to be PPF'd. This was ~4 years ago. Maybe this experiment with change that perspective slightly (at least in regard to grabby coatings). Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
It’s an interesting case study and I do understand the logic behind it. I’m very curious how it will turn out.
Hey Matt, what I’m going to do is I’m having the bumper and headlights PPF and this is strictly to protect the paint from bug infestation.. 80% of what you hit it goes directly to the front bumper and your headlights.. but if you are PPF the entire car to make a better wash process that I guess the $8000 or so that cause I guess make sense
Problem with the grabby coatings under the ppf - is that it keeps the ppf from sliding a bit during installation.
Two different panel wipes eh - "only in America" 🤣
Seriously - love your work - thanks
Oh carpro dquartz is super super grabby when cured too!
One would say, and I’m going to say this, I would not try this with any other ceramic, but this particular one.
Also for what it’s worth, after polishing, we wax the car with optimum spray wax before PPF
I had my wheels coated and ive had no issues with the weights. Sorta similar.
I have had and have PPF, u have to take it off imho the most is 3 years because theres a chance that the paint bond with the ppf (base on experience) and the most i would cover is the front bumper because if u maintain ur car u wont accumulate rock chip it'll be too slick for anything to damage the car when driving.
Simple. Coat it. Then hand polish the edges and use some edge prep. It will be fine, and easier to remove later.
I put the wind deflector/bug guard on my new Bronco after ceramic coating it. The 2 sided tape stuck just fine on my grabby coating. Still on 6 months later, no issues
2 sided tape and ppf adhesive are two different things though
Then I apply The Last Coat on top of the ppf and I reapply The Last Coat after I wash the car as well. That is all you need to make water bead up like crazy on the surface of the ppf and paint. I don’t apply these so- called five year coatings. There is no. Coating that will last forever. And I would rather use a less aggressive coating and simply reapply The Last Coat after every wash or every other wash.
And The Last Coat only costs around $30 for a half a quart spray bottle. Apply the Last Coat to your pad and wipe on and wipe off with a clean microfiber coat. Makes the surface super slick.
Yea im glad you are trying this. I hate when people follow the rules and dont try new things
Hate it when people follow the rules? In most cases there is a perfectly valid reason why certain rules exist.
@@555fourthstreet8 fair enough. Obviously I was more general than this subject requires but we tend to do things based on what the textbook says. Textbook doesnt know anything about practicality
@@MegaSturrup I’m with you man. I hear what you’re saying.
@@MegaSturrup You lost me on your broad last sentence. Sometimes the laymen don't know all of the reasons certain proceedurea are written the way they are. My statement is kinda broad as well but I have never had an operator who knew as much as I did about processing. Sometimes you have to dumb-it-down for the next guy to follow accurately. It isn't personally about you, but for the majority to comprehend.
Sure is a lot of opinions flying around but I’m just here to watch and enjoy 👍
I was watching a youtube video on the Porsche factory filmed 1yr ago and they are using that skin wedge tool on the making of the leather dash stiching, at least it sure looks like the same tool!
Idk I kinda have love hate relationship with coatings in general! Yeah it makes car washing and drying FUN but omg if your car sits outside (sunny and rainy days) the water spots much much worse then normal uncoated paint
OK I was hoping you would touch on the Ploy based coatings. .
Matt, i think there’s a happy medium to a fully PPF’d car, and one in just key areas. Here’s one thought process, which can vary depending on value or rarity of the car: If you as a car enthusiast enjoy washing and waxing cars (I’ve ceramic coated and paint corrected many cars, great for the wife’s car who just wants to clean the car fast, and look decent all the time) But here’s my old school thinking: I don’t want a car coated with something I can’t get off fairly easily. Meaning ceramic coatings and full PPF are out for my personal play cars. I like to WAX, and have many special high end waxes I love. So the process for me of washing a car properly, then polishing and or waxing with a premium product is part of my therapy as a car “enthusiast” But I also like to do all my own tune ups on my personal shop lift, and other than transmissions or computers, I feel the same way about oil changes and spark plugs, brake jobs, etc. So yes, PPF the front bumper, in front of rear wheels, headlights, fog lights, and maybe a hood on a rare car like the GT3 with the vents, because that’s a hassle to wax. Otherwise leave the rest of the car “open paint” so you can spend quality time with your car making her look special….If you PPF a whole car, it’s a bit like 25-50 years ago when flower printed couches had clear” plastic” covers on them. The plastic wasn’t comfortable to sit on, and eventually it all yellowed, just like PPF that looks like crap every 3-5 years. Oh yes, and as other commenters have mentioned, “driving” the car has to be a shared experience, with the maintenance, then when the car gets dirty “driving” you can do it all over agin 😊
In the video of them PPFing your last GT3RS he sprayed a ceramic sealant on the panel before applying the PPF for the same reason I pretty sure
next time you need to do a factory delivery, box the vehicle up and put her on a plane. then you eliminate all of middle part. yeah it will cost you $10 to 15k to ship it but think of how much easier it would be than the equivalent of 2 to 3 forty hr work weeks.
That isn't always possible since the dealership has his responsibilities for delivery.
Or, coat it with ultra. Let it cure. Then really lightly polish it something like a Rupes white pad. This will reduce the slickness a bit, and make it bead less. Then prep the edges. This will work well, and make PPF easier to clean. You don’t want the surface too hydrophobic as the slip will bead up, or you use gel.
*easier to remove.
8:27 Polydimethylsiloxane... or you can just say PDMS lol. I wouldn't coat a car right before it's gonna be PPF'd entirely, mostly because I'd wanna give a light polish to the car after removing the PPF years later anyway, but if I did, then yeah slapping on a tacky coating vs a slick one makes perfect sense to try and minimize interference with the adhesion, if any.
As for the applicators, I never understood the whole foam block with suede other than perhaps controlling/minimizing the amount of coating you use but honestly, I found that using the little microfiber rectangles they sold here in bulk (about the same size as the foam block) didn't really suck up all the coating and if there were any savings using the suede, they were negligible. The user experience was MUCH better, being easier to apply, more efficient, faster, and I didn't have to swap overpriced suede cloths, just use one side, flip to the opposite side when tacky, then off to the table, get a fresh applicator to continue. I'd give the crusty applicator to the customers and they'd always be impressed at how hard/toasted they were, made em feel good. Now they make applicators with plastic covering the foam inside so any coating you might've saved with the suede on a foam block are now gone. The autofiber applicators are friggin' great and I can fool around with the colors. It all comes down to user preference now. Edit: rant around 21:40 I feel you. My biggest obsession is the beads. My beads have beads and even the parts you can't see bead up. I can hose my car down forever mesmerized at the beading, and it has to be perfect, nice and tight and even throughout. If it's not a damn SPHERE it doesn't count! (I'm exaggerating, but only a little bit).
Blast from the past, but would you recommend one or two coats of ceramic on top of PPF?
The ppf covers scratches and even swirls so the paint underneath does not have to be perfect.
even polishing is pointless before ppf, ppf hides it all
Not all of it.
Matt what's your go-to dressing for shining up the interior.. Perl? colour lock? any suggestions on one?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't do interior coating. Just keep it clean and don't eat cheeseburgers in your car lol
Friends don't let friends have shiny interiors.
Just use coconut oil, it will be shiny and perfect (not srs)
Yeah, I don't want anything on the surfaces of the interior except leather. Colourlock Leather Shield is the way to go.
Eraser has a surfactant in it (sodium lauryl sulfate) which (I think) is part of why it can no longer be sold in the non-free state of CA. Optimum Paint Prep doesn't, and it is designed to work with the chemistry of their coatings. Some coatings are a lot more forgiving than others when it comes to what kind of prep they need, (GTechniq is much more forgiving as you know).
Opti-Coat may not have the slickness, but it is a seriously tough and abrasion resistant coating that will shed any toppers (with the exception of Hyper Seal which was designed for it).
I'm sure the PPF will be fine. Dane Hennen's old Jag that he had was coated with Pro Plus, and they later did a vinyl wrap on it with no issues. After watching the video of the PPF guys prepping the G80...I don't blame you for wanting to get something down first!
Eraser can't be sold in CA because of the VOC restrictions due to the odd way the chemical is categorized as. Plenty of other chemicals still use sodium lauryl sulfate but unlike Eraser they aren't specifically designated for personal use and are rather categorized as unrestricted professional products.
So slim pickings on hair shampoo in Cali?
Edges are not going to stick my friend, but if they do that would be cool
Curious to see about that too!
Thats the only issue I can think of when installing film! I believe everything else would be a pro, like stretching a bulk piece across a bumper preventing stretchmarks
One thing many forget is that Opti-Coat is a clear coat resin not a high silicon resin. This allows ppf to bond to the coating. Can’t wait to hear more on this!
Putting any ceramic Coating on XPEL PPF other than XPEL Ceramic Coating can cause failure of the PPF to be denied warranty if XPEL feels it could be due to the coatings application. From XPEL ULTIMATE PLUS WARRANTY... ..."This Limited Warranty does not cover defects caused by: 13. Use of non-XPEL branded ceramic coatings;"
This most commonly questioned in a claim for yellowing / discoloration.
I don’t care. I don’t want that junk coating on my car. I’ll just redo the PPF.
I would be concerned about PPF adhesion over a very omniphobic coating like those that are fluorinated (Gyeon MOHS Evo, Diamond Protech, etc.).
Ok actually got through the video before commenting, opticoat pro will work, it’s not super slick or anything.
Haven’t watched the video but the answer is no
I’ll give you some controversy. I don’t PPF and/or use any coatings. I’m of the opinion that stone chips are evidence of enjoying your car, and it adds patina to your car. The costs of doing either are not worth the money. If and when I want to bring my car’s paint back to a new life, I’ll just get it painted! Frankly, no car is worth covering up to me. I just buy, drive, enjoy, & repeat. Cheers/B✌️😎
Don’t worry, you’ll forget about that scratch in about 2 years
Let's take this one step further, would this prevent headlights from delamation?
Yes until you go to peel the PPF and then they will delaminate then. Especially these Porsche headlights. I believe Matt is not PPFing the headlights and is just going to deal with some chips.
I've been doing PPF on them taking the risk.
@@ObsessedGarage living on the edge, I like it Matty.... thinking about it if you remove it at at 3ys you might be ok....
Honestly they don’t delaminate if your not an idiot when removing. Never had an issur
Matt, I don’t know how you sleep at night with all that stuff going through your mind? I picture you narrating your sleep process 😂.
Ha, ha... I'm just doing what I love, so I can't get enough of it.
Gtechniq coating looks like a waxed surface? Since when? I mean I guess we all see things differently but gtech coating surface looks like a coated surfaces or has that coating look to me. In any case I appreciate Matt using his car as the guinea pig but I am still skeptical about the whole coating before ppf concept.
If the coating has a grippy feel, it should be fine. The only reason you don’t want to call the car before PPF is simply because it won’t stick well and lift. You will notice immediately while doing the install. I decided to do PPF on a car after ceramic coating and the installer had to do a light polish before the installation.
@@RayNLA I can see why the grippy feel might make it seem like it would work but the whole idea of coatings is to protect the paint by sort of “sealing” it which is where we get a coatings hydrophobic properties which also make cleaning easier since dirt and such won’t be able to cling on paint as well. I just think the same thing would go for ppf. Ppf might stay on at first but I don’t think we would get the longevity without issues
@@555fourthstreet8
I had my entire car done two years ago. The installer used a thin layer of wax before installation for safe removal and it’s been fine. So I suspect this will work out ok. You might be right though. Time will tell!
Let it scratch - porsche will sell you a new one in two years! You are too “obsessed” with the surface of the car-- you will sell it in a year or two. You should at least compete in these Porsche Concours where you get recognized for super cleanliness!
Am I insane in thinking you can only use brand new towels on corrected paint? Is that what Matt does? It seems even washed MF towels will leave behind blemishes.
I like my towels washed before using.
As long as you’re using quality towels and washing them in a microfiber detergent and not over drying them they actually can get softer with time
Sounds reasonable to me. I'm not sure what the issue would be and why it would be controversial 🤔
If you do some searching you should be able to find the reason why it isn’t best to apply anything prior to ppf
I've been following the channel for a while. Got to say, lots of good info. This is the saddest video by far. You do get rid of all the cars in no time anyway....wtf
Most of these coatings if not all are a scam. There’s no need for any of them,it’s all about separating you from your money.
Ha, ha... No
I would never Coat the car before PPF. Coatings will not protect from scratches so what is the point. Good luck with having to do the PPF twice and have to remove the coating before doing it a 2nd time. With this being a permanent coating you run the risk of not being able to PPF the car at all. The last thing you want to do is polish this care again. DON"T DO IT. Ryan will know that the car is coated for sure so not like you can hide it from him.
You are sure using a lot of definitive statements there.
You cannot Ppf a coated surface it will peel
its just a car. ppf it and drive it. dont over think it.
👍
Ceramic then ppf then Ceramic, then 2nd layer of ppf, then ceramic, then, ceramic wax, then wetcoat, then Drying Aid... duh
No topper?
@@555fourthstreet8 good point
Matt, your shorts are too long LOL
I'm not a girl.
Why don't you ppf the car yourself?
No...that is a skill that I don't have.
er not air :)
Here's the video on the Porsche factory th-cam.com/video/L4caXYa59pE/w-d-xo.html