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My biggest problem with most ‘romantasy’ books is that the connection between the two characters is often very superficial, the writing focuses too much on physical touch, and the characters are always fawning over how hot the other person looks, it’s more lust than love and I would love to see emotional connection happen before physical attraction more.
Read fantasy that just happens to have a romance. Romantasy as a genre basically puts getting to a relationship faster a priority just like the romance genre. That's the whole point of these books is to get to the romance. Look for slow burns or genres that are something else that just happen to have a romance in them but aren't marketed as x genre + romance.
@@loxry_ true! Im asexual so those romance plot lines always come across silly and superficial to me even though my friend loves it 🙈 i think a lot of people project their own feelings of romance onto the characters rather than whats actually there so it works for them
@@encyclopediaofelizabeth i don't mean for this to come off as rude to you since what you're saying feels like exactly the way publishers see it, but with loxry saying they want MORE time spent on developing the romantic connection rather than just a sexual one, you saying to seek out books that spend a smaller portion of the book on romance doesn't feel helpful. it also feels like it completely erases the difference between romantic attraction and sexual attraction, labels sexual attraction as romance, and then is telling people who come looking for romantic attraction IN the literal "romance"/"romance+genre" genre to fuck off because romance in many of these popular books has been exchanged for sexual attraction and now it completely clouds the ability to find things /with/ more emotional/deeper romantic connections. to say the point of romantasy/romance books is to get to a relationship faster sounds ridiculous, too-wouldn't the point of having it play a larger role in a book be to be able to spend more time on it, and thus have more time to draw out the tension and building romance in a way that adds to a physical attraction rather than being based just on that???? look again i don't have a problem with you directly but as someone who has felt the exact way as loxry very often, your response feels very dismissive and unhelpful and it bugged me lol
@Elle_Riley Publishers are looking at it the way I explained, which is why looking at things not how they are marketing them helps. If you tend to not like books that keep being marketed as romantasy, looking outside of that can help. Sadly, the trend in main stream romantasy is that its not focused on building a relationship. Hence why I encouraged looking into slow burns, they take the time to build that connection. It CAN be very helpful to try books that approach romance as subplot if you want characters to have a deeper connection. The romance being a subplot doesn't mean the romance is weaker compared to other romances, I find less is more when it comes to romance. It all depends on what you're seeking overall. Sometimes I just want things focused on romance, other times if a romance is there it's just a bonus, but not why I'm going into a book.
romantasy as a genre is honestly such a good idea but most of the books suffer from bad writing imo… it’d be so awesome if it had the same merits that fantasy books have!
Yeah... My problem w romantasy isn't that there's less world building and more sexual tension, it's that the books pretty much always fail at both, and if you read one of them, you've read all of them. Where's creativity! I'm sure this subgenre will outgrow this cashgrab lazy writing era, but I'm not waiting around for it
Romantasy helped me get back into reading - like a sweet appetizing snack that triggered my appetite for heartier reads in the true fantasy genre and beyond. The genre definitely doesn't deserve the superficial hate it tends to get. Sugary snacks are fun sometimes!
That is the same with my sister! Although I don't read it, it's the genre that gives her comfort, which is what she seeks out in books, and what I often seek out. Because she has gotten into romantasy after not reading for a long time, we now have so much fun talking about books, even though I don't read the same genre, we both bond over loving reading (and now I always know what presents to get her lol). And she's excited to read! I'm a huge advocate for all reading is reading, all books are books.
The problem is definitely because a lot of people didn't like fourth wing and acotar but there's some great ones out there and they're really fun books
.My problem with this genre is that all the books are the same... It seems like you're Reading the same thing again and again... That's why it's so annoying ... It's something authors would write when they have no idea what to write ... A strong female character falling for a high position guy and they overthrow the government together... With some additional "they hate each other" and banter
@@crystalightzThat’s true of the romance genre as well. It’s one of the reasons it’s a comfort for so many people. There are certain beats that romances hit and you pretty much know how its going to end, there will be a happily ever after, and you already know who the next couple is on the series. With Romantasy that means only on romance beats, it will read as same-y and repetitive, and if that’s not your jam, it will get annoying really quickly. Pretty much every romance is the same, based on whatever trope is the main one followed, and it’s the same story with different names, locations, or time periods. When it follows the fantasy beats as well, you’ll get political machinations or battles or quests, but it’ll just be added to all the typical romance stuff, which makes it still feel repetitive. It’s something I happen to absolutely love, and it’s gotten me through some really difficult times (including right now) and it gives me the joy in my reading when my brain can’t handle the soul searching and social critique of lit fic or the stress of thrillers/fantasy. It is definitely not for everyone though, which is understandable.
in theory, I like romantasy. It has all the things I love: brave, no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes who's not 100% human, forbidden romance, wizard fights, two people falling in love against the backdrop of a magical apocalypse or something, etc. And I'm always down for some spice. But the execution has been so, so lacking. Dry prose, stale humor, shallow characters, messy plot, mushy worldbuilding, cringy instalust. A lot of the execution falls apart when it comes to the most important parts of a romantasy book. And these are the books getting promoted over and over again. All the recs are the same 10 books with the same 10 tropes. It becomes very difficult to find something that's actually trying to be different than what's trendy. It's infuriating
I'm pretty sure that no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes should not be a staple of good romantasy. It should be a part of it of course but I feel like the vast majority of books that are fantasy and have a strong romantic subplot definitely do not fit into that category. And yes they are fantasy with romance and not romantasy but the difference between the two shouldn't be that stark. Even the romance genre got over it's obsession with toxic relationships and repressed quiet big dudes.
@@ducklingscap897 I'm putting that as an example bc it's so common to see and I actually like the trope. But yeah a lot of good romances don't have that, but I want to see some that actually execute the idea well
literally this. the premise is SO promising, but the books just feel mass-produced money-grabs. i find the stories they tell are all just predictable and not well thought out. such a shame.
I've come to realize my biggest gripe with romantasy is the writing quality. While they claim to be romance, it ends up just being lust, with superficial characters and basic physical attraction. Characters' personalities themselves change or warp to the whims of whatever serves the plot and tropes like enemies to lovers are actually just the main lead and her bully who she finds hot. The plots of these books also tend to be pretty weak, full of massive plotholes and contradictions, with no or confusing worldbuilding. Romantasy in theory sounds enjoyable to me, but as it is now, they just feel like books that rely too heavily on checking off popular tropes and sexual tension rather than an actual story and world.
also they all seem to have the same personality across books. You have the small snarky badass who's underestimated and probably uses daggers because she might not be strong, but she sure is fast! And then you have the Big McLargehuge man who's dark and brooding and probably has shadow powers
I love romance and I love fantasy. I love romantic fantasy. But I don't like romantasy pretty much at all, and it's making it harder to find solid fantasy books with solid romance subplots.
I remember when a lil bit mads made a video ranting about romantasy as a genre and I was confused because I thought she was talking about romantic subplots in fantasy which I tend to like. Suffice to say those were more innocent days.
Hi, I can recommend the book series The Mirror Visitor by Christelle Dabos. A large, far-reaching fantasy world that is the focus and then there are a few subplots including romantic and friendly ones. Otherwise I can recommend the two-part nature-based fantasy book series Tobie Lolness/Tobie Alone by Timothée de Fombelle, the whole Moomin world created by Tove Jansson and the world around the book The Pages of the World by Kai Meyer. It is about books, libraries and magic. I also find it really hard to find stories like this where romance and love are not the main focus, so maybe let's exchange recommendations here if anyone wants to.
I'n in the same boat. I was so happy when I read the shades of magic series lately and there was a lot of fantasy but also a nice romance subplot. it really reminded me that the romance and fantasy mix can be fun and it doesn't have to be the washed out superficial type of story that is so popular now.
Interestingly, a similar thing is happening in the manga world! Audiences got tired of the classic hero arc in famous shonen (youn boys genre) and started reading seinen (more adult and dark genre), so what happened is that current shonen started exploring very dark themes to appeal to audiences, while still being marketed to youg boys (the ones that consume manga the most). Its their equivalent to romantasy !!
I've never thought about that! As a lover of more classic hero arcs and someone who dislikes seinen, this explains so much of my frustration with recent popular shounen!
im very glad that you made the shounen and seinen link, as this is exactly how i feel abt mob psycho DSHGKJH very actiony very feelingsy - taking what worked with the action and putting a spin to it! im all for it personally!!
regarding the whole feminist take, i would argue that a lot of romantasy novels are very much NOT feminist, even when theyre are written by women. there is a lot of emphasis on beauty standards and privilege (the main character usually being a skinny white conventionally attractive woman), gender roles (alpha man who wants to dominate the female character, sometimes even without consent, and this being framed as sexy and romantic), rivalry between women (especially some of the stories where the rival is always a hyperfeminine woman or a woman who is not conventionally attractive and is jealous of the main character), and women with superficial strengths (she’s a trained warrior but she still needs to be saved by her love interest). of course, this doesn’t apply to ALL romantasy, i’m sure there are good ones out there, but romantasy as a genre is not inherently feminist.
Thank you this is exactly what bothers me reading Romantasy!! I can't stand books like that but I'm sure not all of them are like this just like you said ☺️
THANK YOU! Just because something is primarily geared towards women that doesn't make it inherently feminist (50s housewife ads, anyone?), and I think romantasy can run into a lot of the same misogynistic tropes that are also common in romance (such as the ones you described!). While that doesn't mean that we should paint all of romantasy (or romance) with the same brush, that does mean we can't turn around and uncritically praise it, either, imo.
As someone who hasn't really enjoyed much (if any, really) romantasy the angle I think that matters in the context of "feminism" is that this is largely a genre that is enjoyed by and purchased by women and then a huge faction of the internet and people who read (many, many of them being men) are telling these women that their interests are garbage and their literature is not to the same standard etc. What has amounted to good literature and worthwhile art has pretty much perpetually been determined by men and what they deem as worthwhile. Is it trashy? Sure, let it be trashy, let it be trashy with all the trashy fantasy novels men have been writing for decades without it being accused of ruining reading, or the sanctity of the fantasy genre.
You hit the nail on the head. It seems that a lot of romantasy suffers from “millennial feminism” and I say this as a millennial. I think 99% of the Greek retelling stories marketed as a “feminist retelling” also suffer from this problem. It’s infuriating to see characters that are supposedly feminist give up all their power (magical or otherwise) as a plot point so she can be with her One True Love™️
I’ve been inspired to write my own book to cash-in on this trend. I’m calling it “A Throne of Light and Grey” with the tagline “He was her nightmare, but she was an insomniac.” We follow our protagonist, Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, a princess from the mythical kingdom of Keyboardsmashia, as she battles against her super edgy and cool arch rival with a secret soft side that only gets exposed when he’s with Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, Leoneai Dominicus (he has black hair so you know he’s the anti-hero) of Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname. Eventually, the two fall in love and overthrow the monarchies of Keyboardsmashia and Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname and become the new king and queen of a new utopian society, because monarchy is actually really good, apparently; bad empires are only bad not because absolute monarchy is inherently bad, but because bad people are in charge, and as soon as those people are no longer in power, the system will work perfectly. There are a bunch of battle scenes that looked really cool when I was imagining them, but when I actually wrote them they all turned out really boring and stiff. There’s even a really intricate magic system that I spent 50 pages explaining but only comes up twice and half of the rules I established get broken anyway.
Fun fact: absolute monarchies aren't inherently bad. At least in no way more than any other government type. France was more democratic before the democracy, because people could directly talk with those in charge and hope to get stuff done. Democratic propaganda should stop.
I like the differentiation of open and closed door romance the best when referring to whether it contains explicit content or not, it makes sense and yet is still a sort of "undercover" way of talking about it hahah
I'm really glad that we officially have a name for the genre 'romantasy' because I'm not a fan of it. It happend way too often that I wanted to read a fantasy book but it was just romance with a sparkle of fantasy. I don't mind romance but I often feel like if it's the main focus it just doesn't hit right. I prefer it as one of many sub-plots. And spice bores me so the popular romantasy books are really not for me. And even though I don't like this genre I think it's stupid and misogynistic that just because a lot of female readers read romantasy it's frowned upon... I'm just happy to know which books I can avoid and happy for the people who have their own genre now :)
Yeaahh looking down on something because it has romantic elements is dumb. I play D&D for a living and one of the things many of my players do is get into some type of romantic subplot, and it never takes away from the story at hand. It's a feature, whereas these romantasy books feel as if. That's the main point, the protag gets D'd down to the backdrop of less-than-stellar worldbuilding.
Not a romantasy but more of a feminist fantasy, Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders trilogy is absolutely fantastic and I don't think enough people are reading it. It's got strong females, giant sea serpents, pirates, political intrigue, adventure, living ships, and actually shows the lasting trauma to rape victims. It is SO well done.
Personally I think romantasy would be a great genre if it was done in the way you said at the beginning. More characterdriven with a little less worldbuilding but a big focus on characterdevelopment. But unfortunately the most popular romantasy books dont have that. They most often have boring main characters with a love interest that is always hot and mysterious but that's it. From my faire share of romantasy books I can say that there most often isn't great characterdevelopment or at least interesting characters...😅🤷🏻♀️ But I mean to each their own and I think it is nonsensical to belittle other readers.
Thank you for breaking down ACOTAR for us because The way everyone talked about it, it made it seem like smut was in every chapter. I am now open to reading it.
ACOTAR may not have explicit scenes in every chapter but it's the main thought of almost every character all the time. Every time they see their significant other it's always the thought about sex and their physical attributes that just leaves it being so vapid and shallow, personally speaking.
The first couple of books have very little smut. It was only like 2 sex scenes per book (and those books are hella long), lots of sexual tension though but the plot definitely took the front line. The last book though was just straight up smut… I was not a fan 😔
As someone who loved The 5th Season, The Poppy War, Divine Rivals, and Throne of Glass I appreciate this so much. I loved all these books for wildly different reasons. Sometimes it is fun to escape and sometimes I want to think deeply about our world. It is okay to enjoy both.
That was the point I was trying to make. I feel like we often pit romantasy vs fantasy and it’s unnecessary. The 5th Season and The Poppy War are straight fantasy and they are incredible books (seriously works of art). But I think you can love these books and also enjoy reading Divine Rivals and Throne of Glass.
i think my biggest gripe with romantasy is that 1) a lot of the popular ones are very heteronormative so i barely see queer love stories hyped up and 2) a lot of the heteronormative romances have strangely traditional gender roles/values reflected in the male and female protagonists, that i get surprised when i hear people praise them so highly for their feminist themes. i think a lot of that also has to do with the popularity of the ACOTAR series bc of the language SJM uses (mates, alphas, males, females, etc.), bc a lot of the recent romantasy books seem like they have inspo roots from that series. im all for fantasy romance (i prefer "romantic fantasy," in that the fantasy A-plot is stronger than the romantic B-plot) and i really want to get into romantasy, but none of them seem to fit with my views regarding gender and such in a romantic/sexual couple, so i never tend to make it to the end of the book before DNFing.
Yes hard same!!! This is so much of it for me. It’s so weird and regressive and off-putting that I can’t look past it to have a good time with any of them.
My understanding is that there's more than enough queer romance to go around. The problem is just that publishers never seem to want to pick them up or at least not promote them as aggressively as the ACOTAR clones. A pity, really, since at least it would be something new.
@@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd yep, in order to find queer romances that are to your liking you'd have to know how to dig around. Chances are there's something for you, and they're not even necessarily European fantasy either. Danmei for instance (Chinese MM romance) deals heavily in genres of Chinese fantasy.
the heteronormative stuff is spot on. What draws me to the idea of a romantasy is that theoretically, you can write a het romance "from scratch". You don't need to worry about IRL trad gender roles. You can create a romance where characters can fall in love as characters instead of fitting them into roles of "male x female". Ofc authors can incorporate patriarchy into their books, but they almost always barely scratch the surface. Instead of actually exploring it, most of the time the book just use the existence of patriarchy to make the characters look more progressive and insist that the ML is soooo dreamy bc he's not a sexual predator or smth :/
im no romantasy reader, hell not even a romance nor a fantasy reader, im a boring litfic reader. but i will defend any genres to exist to lemme say a few things. my gripe with romance was also the heteronormativity in the popular pool, so i understand ur point. however, now that i think about it, it is hardly the genre’s fault, it is more the audience’s and the marketing teams’ work on making what’s already hyped up more popular, and in turn drowning the not-so-popular ones. i am really gay, like, lesbian to my core, and i do not enjoy reading about straight people, hence why i do not read romance bc the popular ones are very straight, but i can hardly blame it on the genre when its ME who refused to deep further to find good lesbian romance books, they are out there, but i can’t be bothered to find them by reading them all myself without being told what’s good or not. even when i’ve found good gay books, they are almost always with white american or european centric characters. i’m a POC so that also kinda turns me off. however, again, that is also not the genre’s fault. unfortunately being a minority, double minority in my case, means i will have a harder time to find what represents me or at least what i could see myself in so i can fully enjoy it. it is unfair but that is why activisms are asking for equity. yeah, sorry for going that deep but it IS a oppression issue, albeit in a minor scale. i keep using romance instead of romantasy bc it’s an older genre that i can find more examples of but the concept is the same to me. gay and POC books are out there, romance or romantasy, they are just not being marketed enough, just like any other minority things out there, so readers don’t get to hear enough of them. that’s why the genres seem so white heteronormative, when they really arent. best i could say is to follow creators to curate ur socials so u can find what u are looking for, it goes for readers of any genre if they want to find less surface level recs of the same books, over and over again. good luck on finding them! im sure u’ll find them!
Tbh i dont really understand the "strong female character" stuff. Ive read a few young adult/romantasy books and usually the female protagonists are just edgy and kinda mean. But the second they fall for a man they fold and turn into a feminine damsel in distress. I havent really read any of the popular series so i wonder if those are different.
Idk ab other books but I could NOT get through throne of glass bcs of this exact reason. Like the main character is just an egoistic, mean girl who thinks she's better than everyone else. I'm sorry but how am I supposed to enjoy a book when I literally cannot stand the main fucking character?
The popular books are that and worse lol You have authors like Kristin Cashore who do it a bit differently but she is also not as big as SJM or the writer of fourth wing.
romantasy to me is just plain bad writing, an excuse for lack of plot. You can write a romance with fantastical aspects and you can write a fantasy with romance in it. Romantasy books in general ruin the romance and the fantasy for me
The major problem with romantasy for me is that they are very often horribly written, poorly edited, and overall lower-quality. I don't see that as much in romantic fantasy or other genres, but for some reason the writing in a lot of these romantasies is just fully garbage. Especially Jennifer L. Armentrout - like how does a publisher allow writing like that to happen?? So ya it's not the content for me - it's the quality. Write what you want but at least follow language rules 😭 EDIT: Obviously I'm not talking about ALL romantasy. But I have given many of these books a chance and the writing quality has not been there.
Women are reading, writing, and publishing now more than ever. My only gripe is how romantasy has taken such a stranglehold on the market, which has changed how literary agents and publishing houses choose books to release. I highly doubt in 2024, The Hunger Game would be published and gotten as popular as it was.
I love the joke about the trope of "An x of x and x" as YA Fantasy/Romantasy and then reminding people the Game of Thrones series is actually called "A Song of Ice and Fire."
In Korea, any fantasy with a female main character was 'kicked out' of both fantasy and romance section, creating the genre called RO-FAN. It is changing nowadays but I think this speaks alot
As a fantasy lover who‘s ace and hates romance, this era right now is my nightmare. My local (big) bookstore is removing more and more epic fantasy books from the shelves in favour of stocking YA/romantasy. I recently went and asked where they had the Brandon Sanderson books and they told me I could order them but they‘re not stocking ‚niche fantasy right now‘ 😭😭😭
I know this is NOT the point of the video, but I love instead of “okay, I’m back, sorry my camera died” the use of “my camera died, I got some tea, look at this cute mug, now let’s continue”
I do love the idea of Romance and Fantasy combined, but similar to what Leonie mentioned here, I’ve never been a big fan of Romantasy. I absolutely adore high fantasy / historical-ish fantasy with a romance subplot, but Romantasy just often doesn’t have the points that I value in a book, which are: -Good world building. I’m not saying that Romantasy world building is bad, it’s just often based on many stereotypes (fourth wing-> Dragonriders, deadly trials, magic school, also dragons but…Evil? / Acotar-> immortal humanoids that are basically normal people, just hotter, Mary-sue, element-based houses aka courts) -Character development being secondary in many Romantasy books -The Romance just isn’t for me, I will always choose the “cute“ type of romance over the “hot“ type of romance But hey, no shame to the romantasy girlies and guys, everyone ha other priorities when it comes to fiction and those of romantasy are just as valid as any other.
Yeah you really have to go looking for romantasy books that have "cute" romance (like His Secret Illuminations) or just a decent world building. You find them, when you look for it but they don't jump in your face because they are popular.
Leonie youre the only creator whose ads i never skip i love that you make them highly interesting and captivating for your audience! Like this is such a good recommendation! You’re better than tiktok algorithm when it comes to recs 😂
this is so interesting! thank you for examining romantasy complexly instead of just saying "ew smut!" even as someone who likes romantic fantasy more than romantasy, I find the intense hatred of smut in fantasy kind of... puritanical. That said, i really wish their writing was better bc i love the idea of romantasy! Maybe as the genre grows the writing will get better too, and the romances will get healthier.
It’s because these writers cant write chemistry to save their lives so the smut is at best boring and at worst it makes me wish my ovaries would shrivel up. If someones praising a book for its spice i know immediately what im in for lol miss me
I think that what happens is that even though there’s only two chapters with spicy content, the writing throughout the book alludes SOOO much to sex and male smells and physique, that it takes away from the story and the world. Maybe the issue is not the romance but the way it’s written and the balance with the other relationships within the story? 🤷🏻♀️
I'm so glad you brought up the disconnect between Romantacy books having spice and readers on the outside assuming they're only smut as a result. I've tried tirelessly to explain some of the interesting themes to friends who wouldn't read the books anyway and anything that isn't "oh and then they hooked up once" just goes in one ear and out the other. Truely a travesty because some of these books are really fun in spite of the awkward spice scene here and there. (Some are just written better than others) I was also hollering when you picked up The Cruel Prince! I love that series - it was the first audiobook series my BFF recommended to me and reading that trilogy led to me trying other mainstream series like ACOTAR and Fourth Wing. I hope other authors will write more books like TCP that leans more on the political intrigue with hints of romance here and there as accent colors.
The biggest reason why I couldn’t watch game of thrones was because the sex scenes made me uncomfortable, so to see mostly fans of these sides of fantasy calling out romanticy as porn is wild. Also thank you for clarifying that many of these that receive that label barely have a scene or two max of intimate scenes, and the clear stigma with sex in general. Romanticy is not my favorite genre but I still find myself annoyed by the obvious misogynistic reactions to it. Constructive criticisms are valid, but I don’t see those often, and I sincerely hope other sub genres of fantasy get the same level of constructive criticisms as well.
Theres a sorta big difference between The TV show GoT and how the books portrayed sex. How some romantsy books do their sex scenes is Extremely close to just popcorn sex fanfic ( which isnt bad but some of the valid criticisms do stem from this). A song of ice and fire had "sex scenes" but they were hardly graphic affairs that can have whole chapters dedicated to them unlike some Romantsy books.
Yeah, I was surprised how tame the sex scenes in Asoiaf were in contrast to GoT. There's only one sex scene that I even remember and that only because it haunts me. And people who are hardcore Asoiaf fans never state the sex scenes as the reason.
@@chellyfishingthere is a YT video ranking all food descriptions throughout ASOIAF and IT’S LONG. probably my biggest pleasant surprise was compared to the sex scenes - which were pretty short and tame and mostly happened off screen - food descriptions were Martin’s true passion.
@nourriadh6976 if you mean Alt Shwift X and Glimbus I think it took them at least 2 hours long videos, possible more? If you only saw one you may be in for a treat. Unless they edited it to one. Either way, their videos are fantastic.
While I have zero interest in Romantasy, I am glad it's a genre because until now I was always worried about picking up a fantasy book in case it ended up having romance in it (I cannot stand romance - especially heavy - in my books! Just personal preference.), and now I can pick any book labeled just Fantasy and know I'm not gunna end up with something I really didn't want to read.
Personally, even though some of them are not written well or have a good plot etc, as someone who has read romantasy since 2019 I am so glad it’s a huge genre now! I scoured KU for “romantasy” books back then trying to find books I could read. Now I have an endless list to read! Not every book is going to be great, but I read to have fun and that they are!
I am personally not a fan of Romantasy books then again I don’t really like romance books or YA . Maybe it’s the writing style of the authors that just doesn’t click with me. I am happy that it exists and it is bringing people to fantasy.
just my unsolicited opinion, but i feel like booktok is ruining the “traditional” way of sharing / discovering your own preferences when it comes to reading.
Romantasy should work for me. It should. I like both a lot. Every one I've tried though has had the same issue. Both the fantasy elements and the romance elements both consistently feel underbaked. I don't know why they all have to be like this (the ones I read I mean.). Writing romances isn't an excuse to have shallow world building and themes, and having dragons, even well crafted ones, isn't an excuse to have the romance elements be good. You need both to be good.
My take is not on romantasy specifically but on your video, it was amazing and with such interesting points and great research behind! I honestly like all your book recommendations videos, but I absolutely adore the more "essay" style, deep dive into a topic videos. You really do a great work with those, so keep it up! Sending you love from Italy!
Maybe this explains why I tend to enjoy the older YA fantasy romances over most todays romantasy. I dnf so many adult romamtasies... I find them all so surface level, lusty and insta-lovey, even when their supposed to be enemies to lovers, their inner thoughts are all about undressing each other. Where as YA fantasy romance usually has more depth and character development, and slow burn romance which I personally much prefer.
It's also worth mentioning that chapter 42 in the first acotar book isn't actually full smut. It's just groping and foreplay before they're interrupted. Yeah it's a steamy scene but it's not quite full spice - cooking but not finished if you will. I was also super surprised when I read a physical copy for annotation after listening to the audiobook, but Thorns and Roses is significantly less spicy than a lot of people think. It's the later books that live up to the Faerie Smut reputations.
OKAY YES! ACOTAR is not even that spicy, at least until you get into A Court of Silver Flames... I'm not sure why people label the first 2 books as spicy when it's one or two scenes and they're not even that good lol.
Omg this has bothered me forever. These books except for ACOSF as @leenambw mentions, are really quite tame. Not even close to the erotica people like to make it out to be lol. It really grinds my gears that it tends to get thrown in that category as a way to be like "ugh that's JUST porn, it's so stupid" haha.
@@katierasburn9571 I'm not saying it's not a fair warning at all. I'm all for being clear and accurate in expectations and knowing what you're getting into. Which is why I clarified the contents of chapter 42. The first book of ACOTAR isn't the erotica it's painted to be, which could disappoint some, or open the door for someone curious with reservations.
I’m LOVING the Nightshade King/Hemlock Queen books. It’s a Romantasy triangle in two directions. Both mains love the same person, in addition to each other. The world building and character development are both great.
It’s pretty fitting to me that Tapas is this video’s sponsor since they also have a lot of otome/villainess isekai-a genre I consider to be pretty romantasy-adjacent
when people categorize the cruel prince (my baby) as romantasy it makes my heart hurt, it's downplayed so much. Then people expect a huge romance plot line in it, read it and find it's not there, and rate the book poorly because of that solely.
I’ve seen that too! I don’t get it - I went in knowing it was more of a political fantasy and ADORED it. So much so that I now own a fancy edition of the series 😂
I am also a big fan! I was lucky enough to not know much about it before reading and came away so excited about it. I try to take most book recs with a grain of salt anyway, knowing everyone's feelings are very nuanced. This was just one of those times I was happy to have almost non existent expectations haha.
I have been waiting for a video like this because I'm personally a bit sad what fantasy turns into because I like my romance subplot and my magic and my found family
I'm writing a romantasy story about an old boyfriend who gets into trouble after stealing some dragon eggs and bragging about it on Twitter. It's called "An Ex of X and Eggs."
As a dude, I think there can be great romantasy and I don't think as a concept its ruining fantasy. BUT from what I've seen a lot of the romantasy tends to be the equivalent of sword of sorcery fantasy of the 80's. Just shlocky, pandery, wish fulfilly junk food tier reads. Lacking in world building, characterization, themes and focusing on action and smut. I still think that has a place too but its disheartening to see those junk food books taking so much of the shelf space. I think fantasy, romantasy or any genre in general deserves more well thought out and fleshed entries.
my biggest issue with romantasy is that it doesnt significantly commit to the fantasy or romance elements. in every romantasy book i can think of, the fantasy is just a backdrop for the romance but the romance isn't compelling either. the concept of a fantasy romance has such potential but none of the books live up to it.
I notice that Romantasy is very much straight couple focused, I can't think of a book that has been marketed as Romantasy but has a gay couple (I may be wrong though!) I think that's my only issue with Romantasy in that it doesn't seem to be very inclusive and just focuses on the same formula of character and romance types. However, I will give it points because it is getting so many people into reading again, my older sister used to laugh at me for having so many books but then I gave her 'Fourth Wing' for a Christmas present and she loved it, she's just finished ACOTAR and is moving onto another of Sarah J Maas works.
In venegance you can find wlw and I identify more with the side characters then with the main. I love it because it is just there, it doesn’t scream: I’m inclusive. It just is. In Cliffworth Academy part one, the main plot is enemies to lovers with two women. But yea I could be more.
For me is pretty simple, "Romantasy" is romance first, fantasy second (or third). Without the romance the book falls apart. And I think is very the opposite of feminism to link romance with woman's literature, like they cannot like anything else. Then I think categorize Romantasy with feminist fiction is not that logical. Fifth Season it is a good example of the opposite (which the video cited)
In my opinion, the way I categorize romantasy is plot to romance ratio. If the romance is the main plot of the story then it’s romantasy. A romance with a fantasy setting, opposed to a fantasy with a side of romance.
It’s not romantasy that I struggle with, it’s that all these books are the same!! I cannot tell them apart especially when it comes to the main characters/main relationship. The popular titles at least are also soooo heterosexist, the main thing that’s kept me from reading ACOTAR as a guilty pleasure is I cannot STAND the male/female thing. These writers also REALLY don’t know what “enemies to lovers” means. Somebody take that phrase away from them until they learn. Edit: good point about the language we use about this stuff! “Clean romance” is a term that really needs to go, especially “clean and wholesome.” One of the most wholesome people alive is Chuck Tingle and I’ll die on this hill.
The concept of tongues locked in the heat of battle makes me think that the phrase "tonsil hockey" is just too tame. We need to escalate to "tonsil jousting" or "tonsil fisticuffs."
I would describe romantacy a bit differently. Essentially, it's just a romance in a fantasy setting. The fantasy element almost always is purely decorative. Because of that the worldbuilding is usually very lackluster and the world turns out to be incredibly flat and fool of plot holes and not enough logic. I enjoy fantasy. I want to read about an interesting and well-build world and characters. And I absolutely do not mind having a romantic subplot in a fantasy book. But as soon as the whole story becomes about the love life of main characters - I'm out. It's not a fantasy anymore, it's a stage with fantasy decorations and a couple of people fighting and making out. Also. It's not a new phenomenon. You can find an abundance of books like that published in the early 2000s. Well, it least in Russian you can. My master's thesis was about slavic mythology in modern Russian fantasy. I've gone through a ridiculous amount of books. And a very stereotypical romantacy has been prevalent since the beginning of 2000s. So when I saw the insane growth of it in English, I was a bit surprised that it's only happening now. My big problem wis romantasy is the repetitiveness. Read 5 of them and you basically read them all. It gets very boring very quickly because of how formulaic it is. Which is why I cannot understand how people only read romantsy, cause like... aren't you bored?😭
My biggest issue with popular romantasy is the constant dirty talk and overall immaturity. I attempted to read Fourth Wing before it got popular because it had dragons, but I just couldn't get through the first 100 pages. The main character just crossed the bridge of death where some characters died, and right away she was dreaming of screwing someone. Why does it so blatantly ignore the trauma she just went through and instead focus on how big the bad guy’s back is? And the number of curse words used in every sentence is just… immature. At least it’s not done as well as it is in high fantasy which has plenty of badass characters with sharp tongues. The same goes for Crescent City! Other adult books that have both romance and fantasy, like Paladin’s Grace, still have the spicy talk, but it's in situations that make sense! I've been reading romantic fantasy for a long time, but these popular books are just icky-worse than some online novels.
Some Wattpad smut books back in the day had more tension and flavor to the romance than these, honestly. This is just mindless, loveless, very bland, not even exciting, and pretty immediate lust.
And of course, all the male leads are so very willing to endure terrible torture for this random girl they met two weeks ago. But like why, how did they fall in love? Was it off-page? Cause I certainly didn't witness it. Why don't they have the same attitude towards the other random girls just like this one??
Thank you so much! That’s also a reason why I most likely won’t buy a romantasy book. If the romance and smut would be at least appropriate in the way of where it’s placed, in which scene, it would be so much better. Because I don’t know about you but I'm not horny if I'd just survive some horrible near death experience. 💀
Romance outside of mainstream media? What? They are & always been millions of them. From tiny paperbacks you bought for peanuts in the mid & late 20th century, to the shiny covers with golden titles & roses entangled in them you buy now... They always been there, together with detective series. And before, when they were written as episodic stories to be sold in magazines & newspapers... It's because there are so many & mostly badly written that these genres are often looked down. I don't think it's got anything to do with «being outside» or «having a community».
Still haven't watched the video, but I really appreciate you putting the "(no)" in the thumbnail title instead of leaving it as another click bait negative commentary ❤ it's been really annoying to me how much TH-cam (and people) priorities extreme and negative opinions especially in the titles and thumbnails.
i am hands down a BIG fan of fantasy[90% my book are fantasy], just bought once upon a broken heart and powerless and need to start it today, but i dont like high romance and spice like ACTOR or fourth wing. and nor do i like full on 🔥 book. any fantasy recc that i would like would be nice:)
well, i’ll be darned. i’m literally the person leonie was talking about near the end, who only saw these books as full of smut because that’s how they’re described. i didn’t know how little there actually was, so consider me corrected!
I think it’s a bit reaching to say Uprooted is Romantasy. The romance is only featured in the tiniest of sections while the main plot overshadows the rest of the book. I just found it surprising marketing and readers would loop it into that genre.
I bought the Night World Series in the 90s when it was marketed as supernatural. The series was published again sometime in the early 2000s following the success of Twilight, where they called it a dark romance (before the term meant violence and sadism). I wouldn't be surprised if they published them again as romantasy. And if they did, maybe they could do me a favour and publish the last two books so I know how it ends! 😁👍
It’s so hard to find fantasy with a touch of romance because it’s all marketed as romantasy. I want something to make me feel the way the cruel prince made me feel
🙋🏻♀️ this is me lol. read fourth wing and iron flame for the first time a little over a month ago, and i have since read all of ACOTAR and Throne of Glass. Just started Crescent City. You captured perfectly that romantasy a blend of YA vibes with adult themes. I’ve read Name of the Wind and The Fifth Season, and while they’re also very good, it doesn’t capture the same magical escapism that I felt when I was a teenager. To your last point-even though a lot of romantasy has characters with a lot of trauma, the romantic part of it helps the idea that despite all the shit the characters go through, there’s someone out there who loves them and helps them through the trauma. It’s inherently more positive than non-romantic fantasy where traumatized characters often don’t get such a happy ending.
I really appreciate that ACOTAR got me back into reading but now that I read a lot more I just wish it was easier to find recommendations for fantasy books with out romance being the main story plot. I personally don't mind if a fantasy book happens to have a romance in it I just don't want it to be the whole story.
I had my Romantasy phase but I think what pushed me out of it was that the plots of most of the romantasy books I read were excuses for the smut. That's why I kinda understand when people say that it's p*rn, even though that is not exactly it. But everything around is just leading to the spice (especially the trauma)
Spot on video Leonie, as always. I remember "back in my days" someone recommended me "the legend of the ice people" as fantasy, and my suprise.when I realised it is clearily smut. So yeah, it was with us for quite a while. I don't usually read romance, so I haven't read any of the popular booktok romantasy, but I started seeing some queer recomendations, and some recs from people K mostly trust, so I might finally cave in. I just need the worldbuilding to make sense, otherwise I won't enjoy the story. It doesn't have to be detailed, but needs to make sense.
In theory, romantasy is my jam. I'd love a strong romance story nestled in a fantasy world. In reality, it just...misses the mark. I need believability in how and why the characters connect, i can not and will not suspend disbelief on that front, because otherwise what's the point? I need well crafted characters. I can endure clinical, bland, underwhelming prose. I can endure pacing and filler issues. I can endure weak worldbuilding, but not inconsistent or logically absurd ones like with Fourth Wing, which isn't a difficult bar to crawl over. But the characters need to be well crafted. They're often very weakly written. I prefer sapphic content, and there's barely any. Maybe one day it'll be worthwhile for me, but not today.
I’m super surprised that the bookstore had Uprooted in the romantasy section, there’s the tiniest crumb in there…definitely not a romantasy in my eyes!!
i love both fantasy and romantasy but in my opinion, they serve different purposes. fantasy for me is more about political intrigue and high stakes, something that makes me reflect on the societal problems or things like that. while romantasy is more about emotions and escapism, just something to read for fun😌 love your videos so much!!🤍
Read I Made a Deal with the Devil on Tapas: bit.ly/tapas-bookleo
The first 100 to use BOOKLEO can read 30 chapters for free. See the video description for more details!
Oh i think i was late to it. The code wasn't working 😢
Hi, the issue with the promo code for “I Made a Deal with the Devil” has been fixed! Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for your patience!
@@TapasMedia thank you!
Kai with an X 🤣
My thoughts exactly XD
LOL, Xai!
That sent me
Which would make it "Ksai".
Almost spat out my morning coffee XD
My biggest problem with most ‘romantasy’ books is that the connection between the two characters is often very superficial, the writing focuses too much on physical touch, and the characters are always fawning over how hot the other person looks, it’s more lust than love and I would love to see emotional connection happen before physical attraction more.
Read fantasy that just happens to have a romance. Romantasy as a genre basically puts getting to a relationship faster a priority just like the romance genre. That's the whole point of these books is to get to the romance. Look for slow burns or genres that are something else that just happen to have a romance in them but aren't marketed as x genre + romance.
@@loxry_ true! Im asexual so those romance plot lines always come across silly and superficial to me even though my friend loves it 🙈 i think a lot of people project their own feelings of romance onto the characters rather than whats actually there so it works for them
@@encyclopediaofelizabeth i don't mean for this to come off as rude to you since what you're saying feels like exactly the way publishers see it, but with loxry saying they want MORE time spent on developing the romantic connection rather than just a sexual one, you saying to seek out books that spend a smaller portion of the book on romance doesn't feel helpful. it also feels like it completely erases the difference between romantic attraction and sexual attraction, labels sexual attraction as romance, and then is telling people who come looking for romantic attraction IN the literal "romance"/"romance+genre" genre to fuck off because romance in many of these popular books has been exchanged for sexual attraction and now it completely clouds the ability to find things /with/ more emotional/deeper romantic connections. to say the point of romantasy/romance books is to get to a relationship faster sounds ridiculous, too-wouldn't the point of having it play a larger role in a book be to be able to spend more time on it, and thus have more time to draw out the tension and building romance in a way that adds to a physical attraction rather than being based just on that???? look again i don't have a problem with you directly but as someone who has felt the exact way as loxry very often, your response feels very dismissive and unhelpful and it bugged me lol
@Elle_Riley Publishers are looking at it the way I explained, which is why looking at things not how they are marketing them helps. If you tend to not like books that keep being marketed as romantasy, looking outside of that can help. Sadly, the trend in main stream romantasy is that its not focused on building a relationship. Hence why I encouraged looking into slow burns, they take the time to build that connection. It CAN be very helpful to try books that approach romance as subplot if you want characters to have a deeper connection. The romance being a subplot doesn't mean the romance is weaker compared to other romances, I find less is more when it comes to romance. It all depends on what you're seeking overall. Sometimes I just want things focused on romance, other times if a romance is there it's just a bonus, but not why I'm going into a book.
I didn’t find the connection between the main characters in ACOTAR superficial. But I’m sure in many others that is the case.
romantasy as a genre is honestly such a good idea but most of the books suffer from bad writing imo… it’d be so awesome if it had the same merits that fantasy books have!
Exactly!!! The writing is so bad and the characters have always the same traits
Yeah... My problem w romantasy isn't that there's less world building and more sexual tension, it's that the books pretty much always fail at both, and if you read one of them, you've read all of them.
Where's creativity!
I'm sure this subgenre will outgrow this cashgrab lazy writing era, but I'm not waiting around for it
They're basically the same story with different names 🤷♀️
I noticed that some romantasy books are actually better translated because some editors are just better writers.
Especially bad since the bar for writing in fantasy wasn't terribly high to begin with.
I’m not a Romantasy girl, but I am so happy Romantasy is its own genre. I really hated it being confused for a Fantasy.
Thank you! There are some good ones that actually have world building and a plot but most of them are dragon/fae erotica
It's still being sold as fantasy ngl.
@@jasminv8653 😢 it’s horrible
Romantasy helped me get back into reading - like a sweet appetizing snack that triggered my appetite for heartier reads in the true fantasy genre and beyond. The genre definitely doesn't deserve the superficial hate it tends to get. Sugary snacks are fun sometimes!
That is the same with my sister! Although I don't read it, it's the genre that gives her comfort, which is what she seeks out in books, and what I often seek out. Because she has gotten into romantasy after not reading for a long time, we now have so much fun talking about books, even though I don't read the same genre, we both bond over loving reading (and now I always know what presents to get her lol). And she's excited to read! I'm a huge advocate for all reading is reading, all books are books.
The problem is definitely because a lot of people didn't like fourth wing and acotar but there's some great ones out there and they're really fun books
Same here!
.My problem with this genre is that all the books are the same... It seems like you're Reading the same thing again and again... That's why it's so annoying ... It's something authors would write when they have no idea what to write ... A strong female character falling for a high position guy and they overthrow the government together... With some additional "they hate each other" and banter
@@crystalightzThat’s true of the romance genre as well. It’s one of the reasons it’s a comfort for so many people. There are certain beats that romances hit and you pretty much know how its going to end, there will be a happily ever after, and you already know who the next couple is on the series. With Romantasy that means only on romance beats, it will read as same-y and repetitive, and if that’s not your jam, it will get annoying really quickly. Pretty much every romance is the same, based on whatever trope is the main one followed, and it’s the same story with different names, locations, or time periods. When it follows the fantasy beats as well, you’ll get political machinations or battles or quests, but it’ll just be added to all the typical romance stuff, which makes it still feel repetitive. It’s something I happen to absolutely love, and it’s gotten me through some really difficult times (including right now) and it gives me the joy in my reading when my brain can’t handle the soul searching and social critique of lit fic or the stress of thrillers/fantasy. It is definitely not for everyone though, which is understandable.
in theory, I like romantasy. It has all the things I love: brave, no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes who's not 100% human, forbidden romance, wizard fights, two people falling in love against the backdrop of a magical apocalypse or something, etc. And I'm always down for some spice. But the execution has been so, so lacking. Dry prose, stale humor, shallow characters, messy plot, mushy worldbuilding, cringy instalust. A lot of the execution falls apart when it comes to the most important parts of a romantasy book. And these are the books getting promoted over and over again. All the recs are the same 10 books with the same 10 tropes. It becomes very difficult to find something that's actually trying to be different than what's trendy. It's infuriating
I'm pretty sure that no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes should not be a staple of good romantasy. It should be a part of it of course but I feel like the vast majority of books that are fantasy and have a strong romantic subplot definitely do not fit into that category. And yes they are fantasy with romance and not romantasy but the difference between the two shouldn't be that stark. Even the romance genre got over it's obsession with toxic relationships and repressed quiet big dudes.
@@ducklingscap897 I'm putting that as an example bc it's so common to see and I actually like the trope. But yeah a lot of good romances don't have that, but I want to see some that actually execute the idea well
Recommend daughter of smoke and bone, it's fantasy with a lot of romance (particularly the second and third books)
Same
literally this.
the premise is SO promising, but the books just feel mass-produced money-grabs. i find the stories they tell are all just predictable and not well thought out. such a shame.
I've come to realize my biggest gripe with romantasy is the writing quality. While they claim to be romance, it ends up just being lust, with superficial characters and basic physical attraction. Characters' personalities themselves change or warp to the whims of whatever serves the plot and tropes like enemies to lovers are actually just the main lead and her bully who she finds hot. The plots of these books also tend to be pretty weak, full of massive plotholes and contradictions, with no or confusing worldbuilding. Romantasy in theory sounds enjoyable to me, but as it is now, they just feel like books that rely too heavily on checking off popular tropes and sexual tension rather than an actual story and world.
also they all seem to have the same personality across books. You have the small snarky badass who's underestimated and probably uses daggers because she might not be strong, but she sure is fast! And then you have the Big McLargehuge man who's dark and brooding and probably has shadow powers
Leonie publishing a video in the middle of the night is one of those things I’d never expect to make me so happy.
Ikr, I woke up this morning and the notification was just there, it took me a second to realize she uploaded a new video. 😂
I love romance and I love fantasy. I love romantic fantasy. But I don't like romantasy pretty much at all, and it's making it harder to find solid fantasy books with solid romance subplots.
I remember when a lil bit mads made a video ranting about romantasy as a genre and I was confused because I thought she was talking about romantic subplots in fantasy which I tend to like. Suffice to say those were more innocent days.
Frrr!! It's making it harder to find a good fantasy with subplot romance
Yes, this. I can only think of one author who's pulled romantasy off for me-T. Kingfisher with Swordheart
Hi,
I can recommend the book series The Mirror Visitor by Christelle Dabos.
A large, far-reaching fantasy world that is the focus and then there are a few subplots including romantic and friendly ones.
Otherwise I can recommend the two-part nature-based fantasy book series Tobie Lolness/Tobie Alone by Timothée de Fombelle, the whole Moomin world created by Tove Jansson and the world around the book The Pages of the World by Kai Meyer. It is about books, libraries and magic. I also find it really hard to find stories like this where romance and love are not the main focus, so maybe let's exchange recommendations here if anyone wants to.
I'n in the same boat. I was so happy when I read the shades of magic series lately and there was a lot of fantasy but also a nice romance subplot. it really reminded me that the romance and fantasy mix can be fun and it doesn't have to be the washed out superficial type of story that is so popular now.
Interestingly, a similar thing is happening in the manga world! Audiences got tired of the classic hero arc in famous shonen (youn boys genre) and started reading seinen (more adult and dark genre), so what happened is that current shonen started exploring very dark themes to appeal to audiences, while still being marketed to youg boys (the ones that consume manga the most). Its their equivalent to romantasy !!
this is true, i haven't thought about it before but now that you mention it, jujutsu kaisen and chainsaw man do this
I've never thought about that! As a lover of more classic hero arcs and someone who dislikes seinen, this explains so much of my frustration with recent popular shounen!
im very glad that you made the shounen and seinen link, as this is exactly how i feel abt mob psycho DSHGKJH very actiony very feelingsy - taking what worked with the action and putting a spin to it! im all for it personally!!
regarding the whole feminist take, i would argue that a lot of romantasy novels are very much NOT feminist, even when theyre are written by women.
there is a lot of emphasis on beauty standards and privilege (the main character usually being a skinny white conventionally attractive woman), gender roles (alpha man who wants to dominate the female character, sometimes even without consent, and this being framed as sexy and romantic), rivalry between women (especially some of the stories where the rival is always a hyperfeminine woman or a woman who is not conventionally attractive and is jealous of the main character), and women with superficial strengths (she’s a trained warrior but she still needs to be saved by her love interest).
of course, this doesn’t apply to ALL romantasy, i’m sure there are good ones out there, but romantasy as a genre is not inherently feminist.
Thank you this is exactly what bothers me reading Romantasy!! I can't stand books like that but I'm sure not all of them are like this just like you said ☺️
THANK YOU! Just because something is primarily geared towards women that doesn't make it inherently feminist (50s housewife ads, anyone?), and I think romantasy can run into a lot of the same misogynistic tropes that are also common in romance (such as the ones you described!). While that doesn't mean that we should paint all of romantasy (or romance) with the same brush, that does mean we can't turn around and uncritically praise it, either, imo.
Exactly 😂 writing about a fmc doesn't automatically make you a feminist cause that character will have a very defining personality
As someone who hasn't really enjoyed much (if any, really) romantasy the angle I think that matters in the context of "feminism" is that this is largely a genre that is enjoyed by and purchased by women and then a huge faction of the internet and people who read (many, many of them being men) are telling these women that their interests are garbage and their literature is not to the same standard etc. What has amounted to good literature and worthwhile art has pretty much perpetually been determined by men and what they deem as worthwhile. Is it trashy? Sure, let it be trashy, let it be trashy with all the trashy fantasy novels men have been writing for decades without it being accused of ruining reading, or the sanctity of the fantasy genre.
You hit the nail on the head. It seems that a lot of romantasy suffers from “millennial feminism” and I say this as a millennial. I think 99% of the Greek retelling stories marketed as a “feminist retelling” also suffer from this problem. It’s infuriating to see characters that are supposedly feminist give up all their power (magical or otherwise) as a plot point so she can be with her One True Love™️
I’ve been inspired to write my own book to cash-in on this trend. I’m calling it “A Throne of Light and Grey” with the tagline “He was her nightmare, but she was an insomniac.” We follow our protagonist, Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, a princess from the mythical kingdom of Keyboardsmashia, as she battles against her super edgy and cool arch rival with a secret soft side that only gets exposed when he’s with Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, Leoneai Dominicus (he has black hair so you know he’s the anti-hero) of Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname. Eventually, the two fall in love and overthrow the monarchies of Keyboardsmashia and Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname and become the new king and queen of a new utopian society, because monarchy is actually really good, apparently; bad empires are only bad not because absolute monarchy is inherently bad, but because bad people are in charge, and as soon as those people are no longer in power, the system will work perfectly. There are a bunch of battle scenes that looked really cool when I was imagining them, but when I actually wrote them they all turned out really boring and stiff. There’s even a really intricate magic system that I spent 50 pages explaining but only comes up twice and half of the rules I established get broken anyway.
Please publish this, I will buy it😂
Huge fan of the tale of Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, reminds me of the story of Shshshshsh
I would 100% buy this 😆
can't wait to read it 💯
Fun fact: absolute monarchies aren't inherently bad. At least in no way more than any other government type.
France was more democratic before the democracy, because people could directly talk with those in charge and hope to get stuff done. Democratic propaganda should stop.
As a fantasy and fanfic reader, I LOVE the idea of romantasy, but I almost always detest the way it's executed 😮💨
I like the differentiation of open and closed door romance the best when referring to whether it contains explicit content or not, it makes sense and yet is still a sort of "undercover" way of talking about it hahah
I'm really glad that we officially have a name for the genre 'romantasy' because I'm not a fan of it. It happend way too often that I wanted to read a fantasy book but it was just romance with a sparkle of fantasy. I don't mind romance but I often feel like if it's the main focus it just doesn't hit right. I prefer it as one of many sub-plots. And spice bores me so the popular romantasy books are really not for me. And even though I don't like this genre I think it's stupid and misogynistic that just because a lot of female readers read romantasy it's frowned upon...
I'm just happy to know which books I can avoid and happy for the people who have their own genre now :)
Yeaahh looking down on something because it has romantic elements is dumb. I play D&D for a living and one of the things many of my players do is get into some type of romantic subplot, and it never takes away from the story at hand. It's a feature, whereas these romantasy books feel as if. That's the main point, the protag gets D'd down to the backdrop of less-than-stellar worldbuilding.
Not a romantasy but more of a feminist fantasy, Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders trilogy is absolutely fantastic and I don't think enough people are reading it. It's got strong females, giant sea serpents, pirates, political intrigue, adventure, living ships, and actually shows the lasting trauma to rape victims. It is SO well done.
Personally I think romantasy would be a great genre if it was done in the way you said at the beginning. More characterdriven with a little less worldbuilding but a big focus on characterdevelopment. But unfortunately the most popular romantasy books dont have that. They most often have boring main characters with a love interest that is always hot and mysterious but that's it. From my faire share of romantasy books I can say that there most often isn't great characterdevelopment or at least interesting characters...😅🤷🏻♀️
But I mean to each their own and I think it is nonsensical to belittle other readers.
I wouldnt mind romantasy if it wasnt the same book every time
Thank you for breaking down ACOTAR for us because The way everyone talked about it, it made it seem like smut was in every chapter. I am now open to reading it.
Some of the later books do have much much sex. According to everyone that I know that has read it, the farther you go the more sex you find.
@@encyclopediaofelizabeth Yep. The focus on sex basically increases with every book.
ACOTAR may not have explicit scenes in every chapter but it's the main thought of almost every character all the time. Every time they see their significant other it's always the thought about sex and their physical attributes that just leaves it being so vapid and shallow, personally speaking.
The first couple of books have very little smut. It was only like 2 sex scenes per book (and those books are hella long), lots of sexual tension though but the plot definitely took the front line. The last book though was just straight up smut… I was not a fan 😔
As someone who loved The 5th Season, The Poppy War, Divine Rivals, and Throne of Glass I appreciate this so much. I loved all these books for wildly different reasons. Sometimes it is fun to escape and sometimes I want to think deeply about our world. It is okay to enjoy both.
The poppy war!?!!? Romantasy???? 😭
In what world is the poppy war romantasy?!
@@sophiep7184 That's not what the person is saying, just that they liked all the books even though they are very different
The poppy war is not romantasy babe it’s straight up fantasy
That was the point I was trying to make. I feel like we often pit romantasy vs fantasy and it’s unnecessary. The 5th Season and The Poppy War are straight fantasy and they are incredible books (seriously works of art). But I think you can love these books and also enjoy reading Divine Rivals and Throne of Glass.
i think my biggest gripe with romantasy is that
1) a lot of the popular ones are very heteronormative so i barely see queer love stories hyped up and
2) a lot of the heteronormative romances have strangely traditional gender roles/values reflected in the male and female protagonists, that i get surprised when i hear people praise them so highly for their feminist themes.
i think a lot of that also has to do with the popularity of the ACOTAR series bc of the language SJM uses (mates, alphas, males, females, etc.), bc a lot of the recent romantasy books seem like they have inspo roots from that series.
im all for fantasy romance (i prefer "romantic fantasy," in that the fantasy A-plot is stronger than the romantic B-plot) and i really want to get into romantasy, but none of them seem to fit with my views regarding gender and such in a romantic/sexual couple, so i never tend to make it to the end of the book before DNFing.
Yes hard same!!! This is so much of it for me. It’s so weird and regressive and off-putting that I can’t look past it to have a good time with any of them.
My understanding is that there's more than enough queer romance to go around. The problem is just that publishers never seem to want to pick them up or at least not promote them as aggressively as the ACOTAR clones. A pity, really, since at least it would be something new.
@@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd yep, in order to find queer romances that are to your liking you'd have to know how to dig around. Chances are there's something for you, and they're not even necessarily European fantasy either. Danmei for instance (Chinese MM romance) deals heavily in genres of Chinese fantasy.
the heteronormative stuff is spot on. What draws me to the idea of a romantasy is that theoretically, you can write a het romance "from scratch". You don't need to worry about IRL trad gender roles. You can create a romance where characters can fall in love as characters instead of fitting them into roles of "male x female". Ofc authors can incorporate patriarchy into their books, but they almost always barely scratch the surface. Instead of actually exploring it, most of the time the book just use the existence of patriarchy to make the characters look more progressive and insist that the ML is soooo dreamy bc he's not a sexual predator or smth :/
im no romantasy reader, hell not even a romance nor a fantasy reader, im a boring litfic reader. but i will defend any genres to exist to lemme say a few things. my gripe with romance was also the heteronormativity in the popular pool, so i understand ur point. however, now that i think about it, it is hardly the genre’s fault, it is more the audience’s and the marketing teams’ work on making what’s already hyped up more popular, and in turn drowning the not-so-popular ones.
i am really gay, like, lesbian to my core, and i do not enjoy reading about straight people, hence why i do not read romance bc the popular ones are very straight, but i can hardly blame it on the genre when its ME who refused to deep further to find good lesbian romance books, they are out there, but i can’t be bothered to find them by reading them all myself without being told what’s good or not.
even when i’ve found good gay books, they are almost always with white american or european centric characters. i’m a POC so that also kinda turns me off. however, again, that is also not the genre’s fault. unfortunately being a minority, double minority in my case, means i will have a harder time to find what represents me or at least what i could see myself in so i can fully enjoy it. it is unfair but that is why activisms are asking for equity. yeah, sorry for going that deep but it IS a oppression issue, albeit in a minor scale.
i keep using romance instead of romantasy bc it’s an older genre that i can find more examples of but the concept is the same to me. gay and POC books are out there, romance or romantasy, they are just not being marketed enough, just like any other minority things out there, so readers don’t get to hear enough of them. that’s why the genres seem so white heteronormative, when they really arent.
best i could say is to follow creators to curate ur socials so u can find what u are looking for, it goes for readers of any genre if they want to find less surface level recs of the same books, over and over again. good luck on finding them! im sure u’ll find them!
Tbh i dont really understand the "strong female character" stuff. Ive read a few young adult/romantasy books and usually the female protagonists are just edgy and kinda mean. But the second they fall for a man they fold and turn into a feminine damsel in distress.
I havent really read any of the popular series so i wonder if those are different.
Idk ab other books but I could NOT get through throne of glass bcs of this exact reason. Like the main character is just an egoistic, mean girl who thinks she's better than everyone else. I'm sorry but how am I supposed to enjoy a book when I literally cannot stand the main fucking character?
The popular books are that and worse lol
You have authors like Kristin Cashore who do it a bit differently but she is also not as big as SJM or the writer of fourth wing.
Girl this intro has me dead🤣🤣 form the start 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
romantasy to me is just plain bad writing, an excuse for lack of plot. You can write a romance with fantastical aspects and you can write a fantasy with romance in it. Romantasy books in general ruin the romance and the fantasy for me
The major problem with romantasy for me is that they are very often horribly written, poorly edited, and overall lower-quality. I don't see that as much in romantic fantasy or other genres, but for some reason the writing in a lot of these romantasies is just fully garbage. Especially Jennifer L. Armentrout - like how does a publisher allow writing like that to happen?? So ya it's not the content for me - it's the quality. Write what you want but at least follow language rules 😭
EDIT: Obviously I'm not talking about ALL romantasy. But I have given many of these books a chance and the writing quality has not been there.
Nothing kills my interest in a book more than the phrase "for fans of Sarah J Maas" used in the description
I woke up craving breakfast in front of youtube talking about fantasy books ! wouhou
Women are reading, writing, and publishing now more than ever. My only gripe is how romantasy has taken such a stranglehold on the market, which has changed how literary agents and publishing houses choose books to release. I highly doubt in 2024, The Hunger Game would be published and gotten as popular as it was.
I love the joke about the trope of "An x of x and x" as YA Fantasy/Romantasy and then reminding people the Game of Thrones series is actually called "A Song of Ice and Fire."
Guess where they got inspired from lol
@@ducklingscap897 Not sure how to take this comment tbh lol -- I'm well aware of this, but it doesn't make the looks on their faces any less funny.
In Korea, any fantasy with a female main character was 'kicked out' of both fantasy and romance section, creating the genre called RO-FAN. It is changing nowadays but I think this speaks alot
As a fantasy lover who‘s ace and hates romance, this era right now is my nightmare. My local (big) bookstore is removing more and more epic fantasy books from the shelves in favour of stocking YA/romantasy. I recently went and asked where they had the Brandon Sanderson books and they told me I could order them but they‘re not stocking ‚niche fantasy right now‘ 😭😭😭
I know this is NOT the point of the video, but I love instead of “okay, I’m back, sorry my camera died” the use of “my camera died, I got some tea, look at this cute mug, now let’s continue”
I do love the idea of Romance and Fantasy combined, but similar to what Leonie mentioned here, I’ve never been a big fan of Romantasy. I absolutely adore high fantasy / historical-ish fantasy with a romance subplot, but Romantasy just often doesn’t have the points that I value in a book, which are:
-Good world building. I’m not saying that Romantasy world building is bad, it’s just often based on many stereotypes (fourth wing-> Dragonriders, deadly trials, magic school, also dragons but…Evil? / Acotar-> immortal humanoids that are basically normal people, just hotter, Mary-sue, element-based houses aka courts)
-Character development being secondary in many Romantasy books
-The Romance just isn’t for me, I will always choose the “cute“ type of romance over the “hot“ type of romance
But hey, no shame to the romantasy girlies and guys, everyone ha other priorities when it comes to fiction and those of romantasy are just as valid as any other.
Yeah you really have to go looking for romantasy books that have "cute" romance (like His Secret Illuminations) or just a decent world building. You find them, when you look for it but they don't jump in your face because they are popular.
Leonie youre the only creator whose ads i never skip i love that you make them highly interesting and captivating for your audience! Like this is such a good recommendation! You’re better than tiktok algorithm when it comes to recs 😂
this is so interesting! thank you for examining romantasy complexly instead of just saying "ew smut!" even as someone who likes romantic fantasy more than romantasy, I find the intense hatred of smut in fantasy kind of... puritanical. That said, i really wish their writing was better bc i love the idea of romantasy! Maybe as the genre grows the writing will get better too, and the romances will get healthier.
It’s because these writers cant write chemistry to save their lives so the smut is at best boring and at worst it makes me wish my ovaries would shrivel up. If someones praising a book for its spice i know immediately what im in for lol miss me
I think that what happens is that even though there’s only two chapters with spicy content, the writing throughout the book alludes SOOO much to sex and male smells and physique, that it takes away from the story and the world. Maybe the issue is not the romance but the way it’s written and the balance with the other relationships within the story? 🤷🏻♀️
You explained everything perfectly Leonie ✨️ I love reading both fantasy and romantasy ❤️🔥
When I visit local bookstore nowadays most of things on the shelf under fantasy sections are romantasy novels now. It's really crazy. 😂
I'm so glad you brought up the disconnect between Romantacy books having spice and readers on the outside assuming they're only smut as a result. I've tried tirelessly to explain some of the interesting themes to friends who wouldn't read the books anyway and anything that isn't "oh and then they hooked up once" just goes in one ear and out the other. Truely a travesty because some of these books are really fun in spite of the awkward spice scene here and there. (Some are just written better than others)
I was also hollering when you picked up The Cruel Prince! I love that series - it was the first audiobook series my BFF recommended to me and reading that trilogy led to me trying other mainstream series like ACOTAR and Fourth Wing. I hope other authors will write more books like TCP that leans more on the political intrigue with hints of romance here and there as accent colors.
"There's alot of emphasis on meals and emails"
Thanks subtitles
The biggest reason why I couldn’t watch game of thrones was because the sex scenes made me uncomfortable, so to see mostly fans of these sides of fantasy calling out romanticy as porn is wild. Also thank you for clarifying that many of these that receive that label barely have a scene or two max of intimate scenes, and the clear stigma with sex in general. Romanticy is not my favorite genre but I still find myself annoyed by the obvious misogynistic reactions to it. Constructive criticisms are valid, but I don’t see those often, and I sincerely hope other sub genres of fantasy get the same level of constructive criticisms as well.
Theres a sorta big difference between The TV show GoT and how the books portrayed sex. How some romantsy books do their sex scenes is Extremely close to just popcorn sex fanfic ( which isnt bad but some of the valid criticisms do stem from this). A song of ice and fire had "sex scenes" but they were hardly graphic affairs that can have whole chapters dedicated to them unlike some Romantsy books.
@@Tojeaux_ it’s been a hot minute since I ready any song of ice and fire but I feel like he devotes more pages to talking about food than about sex
Yeah, I was surprised how tame the sex scenes in Asoiaf were in contrast to GoT. There's only one sex scene that I even remember and that only because it haunts me. And people who are hardcore Asoiaf fans never state the sex scenes as the reason.
@@chellyfishingthere is a YT video ranking all food descriptions throughout ASOIAF and IT’S LONG. probably my biggest pleasant surprise was compared to the sex scenes - which were pretty short and tame and mostly happened off screen - food descriptions were Martin’s true passion.
@nourriadh6976 if you mean Alt Shwift X and Glimbus I think it took them at least 2 hours long videos, possible more? If you only saw one you may be in for a treat. Unless they edited it to one. Either way, their videos are fantastic.
"his name is Kai..... with an X" that made me laugh hahah
While I have zero interest in Romantasy, I am glad it's a genre because until now I was always worried about picking up a fantasy book in case it ended up having romance in it (I cannot stand romance - especially heavy - in my books! Just personal preference.), and now I can pick any book labeled just Fantasy and know I'm not gunna end up with something I really didn't want to read.
0:30 i’ll read that 😃🤣
Personally, even though some of them are not written well or have a good plot etc, as someone who has read romantasy since 2019 I am so glad it’s a huge genre now! I scoured KU for “romantasy” books back then trying to find books I could read. Now I have an endless list to read! Not every book is going to be great, but I read to have fun and that they are!
I am personally not a fan of Romantasy books then again I don’t really like romance books or YA . Maybe it’s the writing style of the authors that just doesn’t click with me. I am happy that it exists and it is bringing people to fantasy.
This is me. I don’t mind some romance subplots, but I don’t find romance interesting enough to hold up a story on its own.
This. I prefer romance to kar a backseat and tie in to the deeper themes of a book rather than being the focal point.
Same. Romance on the side, please. Although I do love me some Jane Austen.
just my unsolicited opinion, but i feel like booktok is ruining the “traditional” way of sharing / discovering your own preferences when it comes to reading.
You're right though!
I agree with this!
8:04 - that's adorable! The store was like, 'no time to print a proper sign, just make one out of what we got!' LOL
Romantasy should work for me. It should. I like both a lot. Every one I've tried though has had the same issue. Both the fantasy elements and the romance elements both consistently feel underbaked. I don't know why they all have to be like this (the ones I read I mean.). Writing romances isn't an excuse to have shallow world building and themes, and having dragons, even well crafted ones, isn't an excuse to have the romance elements be good. You need both to be good.
My take is not on romantasy specifically but on your video, it was amazing and with such interesting points and great research behind! I honestly like all your book recommendations videos, but I absolutely adore the more "essay" style, deep dive into a topic videos. You really do a great work with those, so keep it up! Sending you love from Italy!
Maybe this explains why I tend to enjoy the older YA fantasy romances over most todays romantasy. I dnf so many adult romamtasies... I find them all so surface level, lusty and insta-lovey, even when their supposed to be enemies to lovers, their inner thoughts are all about undressing each other. Where as YA fantasy romance usually has more depth and character development, and slow burn romance which I personally much prefer.
What are your favorite YA fantasy romances?
Romantasy feels like fanfiction of fantasy to me idk
*LET HER COOK!*
It's also worth mentioning that chapter 42 in the first acotar book isn't actually full smut. It's just groping and foreplay before they're interrupted. Yeah it's a steamy scene but it's not quite full spice - cooking but not finished if you will. I was also super surprised when I read a physical copy for annotation after listening to the audiobook, but Thorns and Roses is significantly less spicy than a lot of people think. It's the later books that live up to the Faerie Smut reputations.
OKAY YES! ACOTAR is not even that spicy, at least until you get into A Court of Silver Flames... I'm not sure why people label the first 2 books as spicy when it's one or two scenes and they're not even that good lol.
Omg this has bothered me forever. These books except for ACOSF as @leenambw mentions, are really quite tame. Not even close to the erotica people like to make it out to be lol. It really grinds my gears that it tends to get thrown in that category as a way to be like "ugh that's JUST porn, it's so stupid" haha.
Okay but if you want to finish the series youre now invested in you have to read through all the later smut regardless so is it not a fair warning?
@@katierasburn9571 I'm not saying it's not a fair warning at all. I'm all for being clear and accurate in expectations and knowing what you're getting into. Which is why I clarified the contents of chapter 42. The first book of ACOTAR isn't the erotica it's painted to be, which could disappoint some, or open the door for someone curious with reservations.
Sookie Stackhouse was fun! It didn’t take itself too seriously and delivered on the 🔥
I’m LOVING the Nightshade King/Hemlock Queen books. It’s a Romantasy triangle in two directions. Both mains love the same person, in addition to each other. The world building and character development are both great.
I think often 'romantasy' and 'fantasy with romance' are categorised based on if they are marketed more towards a masc or fem audience
It’s pretty fitting to me that Tapas is this video’s sponsor since they also have a lot of otome/villainess isekai-a genre I consider to be pretty romantasy-adjacent
Love the visuals and transitions. Well done 😊 thank you for your opinion.
Rain outside 🤝 a new Leonie's video, autumn has officially arrived😎🍂
when people categorize the cruel prince (my baby) as romantasy it makes my heart hurt, it's downplayed so much. Then people expect a huge romance plot line in it, read it and find it's not there, and rate the book poorly because of that solely.
I’ve seen that too! I don’t get it - I went in knowing it was more of a political fantasy and ADORED it. So much so that I now own a fancy edition of the series 😂
I am also a big fan! I was lucky enough to not know much about it before reading and came away so excited about it. I try to take most book recs with a grain of salt anyway, knowing everyone's feelings are very nuanced. This was just one of those times I was happy to have almost non existent expectations haha.
I have been waiting for a video like this because I'm personally a bit sad what fantasy turns into because I like my romance subplot and my magic and my found family
I just love the style of editing
I love your deep dive videos, and book breakdowns! You should make more of them
Just got a hot pizza and im in my hozier merch. This is gonna be a good night
This was the most intelligent, well thought out, well researched discussion on the topic I have read! Bravo! Great video ❤
I'm writing a romantasy story about an old boyfriend who gets into trouble after stealing some dragon eggs and bragging about it on Twitter.
It's called "An Ex of X and Eggs."
As a dude, I think there can be great romantasy and I don't think as a concept its ruining fantasy. BUT from what I've seen a lot of the romantasy tends to be the equivalent of sword of sorcery fantasy of the 80's. Just shlocky, pandery, wish fulfilly junk food tier reads. Lacking in world building, characterization, themes and focusing on action and smut. I still think that has a place too but its disheartening to see those junk food books taking so much of the shelf space. I think fantasy, romantasy or any genre in general deserves more well thought out and fleshed entries.
Love your deep dives! And the nuance with what you treat every subject you speak about.❤
my biggest issue with romantasy is that it doesnt significantly commit to the fantasy or romance elements. in every romantasy book i can think of, the fantasy is just a backdrop for the romance but the romance isn't compelling either. the concept of a fantasy romance has such potential but none of the books live up to it.
I was so excited when I saw her post!!!
The titles are too real 😂💀
I notice that Romantasy is very much straight couple focused, I can't think of a book that has been marketed as Romantasy but has a gay couple (I may be wrong though!) I think that's my only issue with Romantasy in that it doesn't seem to be very inclusive and just focuses on the same formula of character and romance types. However, I will give it points because it is getting so many people into reading again, my older sister used to laugh at me for having so many books but then I gave her 'Fourth Wing' for a Christmas present and she loved it, she's just finished ACOTAR and is moving onto another of Sarah J Maas works.
It's always the girls that make fun of you for reading...
The '' diverse '' ones tend to be RH 😭
Aren't basically all books by Rainbow Rowell or F.T. Lukens gay romantasy? I mean you don't have to look far to find gay romantasy.
Tell your sister she’s a hypocrite with bad taste
In venegance you can find wlw and I identify more with the side characters then with the main. I love it because it is just there, it doesn’t scream: I’m inclusive. It just is.
In Cliffworth Academy part one, the main plot is enemies to lovers with two women. But yea I could be more.
For me is pretty simple, "Romantasy" is romance first, fantasy second (or third). Without the romance the book falls apart. And I think is very the opposite of feminism to link romance with woman's literature, like they cannot like anything else. Then I think categorize Romantasy with feminist fiction is not that logical. Fifth Season it is a good example of the opposite (which the video cited)
In my opinion, the way I categorize romantasy is plot to romance ratio. If the romance is the main plot of the story then it’s romantasy. A romance with a fantasy setting, opposed to a fantasy with a side of romance.
It’s not romantasy that I struggle with, it’s that all these books are the same!! I cannot tell them apart especially when it comes to the main characters/main relationship. The popular titles at least are also soooo heterosexist, the main thing that’s kept me from reading ACOTAR as a guilty pleasure is I cannot STAND the male/female thing.
These writers also REALLY don’t know what “enemies to lovers” means. Somebody take that phrase away from them until they learn.
Edit: good point about the language we use about this stuff! “Clean romance” is a term that really needs to go, especially “clean and wholesome.” One of the most wholesome people alive is Chuck Tingle and I’ll die on this hill.
The concept of tongues locked in the heat of battle makes me think that the phrase "tonsil hockey" is just too tame. We need to escalate to "tonsil jousting" or "tonsil fisticuffs."
I would describe romantacy a bit differently. Essentially, it's just a romance in a fantasy setting. The fantasy element almost always is purely decorative. Because of that the worldbuilding is usually very lackluster and the world turns out to be incredibly flat and fool of plot holes and not enough logic.
I enjoy fantasy. I want to read about an interesting and well-build world and characters. And I absolutely do not mind having a romantic subplot in a fantasy book. But as soon as the whole story becomes about the love life of main characters - I'm out. It's not a fantasy anymore, it's a stage with fantasy decorations and a couple of people fighting and making out.
Also. It's not a new phenomenon. You can find an abundance of books like that published in the early 2000s. Well, it least in Russian you can. My master's thesis was about slavic mythology in modern Russian fantasy. I've gone through a ridiculous amount of books. And a very stereotypical romantacy has been prevalent since the beginning of 2000s. So when I saw the insane growth of it in English, I was a bit surprised that it's only happening now.
My big problem wis romantasy is the repetitiveness. Read 5 of them and you basically read them all. It gets very boring very quickly because of how formulaic it is. Which is why I cannot understand how people only read romantsy, cause like... aren't you bored?😭
My biggest issue with popular romantasy is the constant dirty talk and overall immaturity. I attempted to read Fourth Wing before it got popular because it had dragons, but I just couldn't get through the first 100 pages. The main character just crossed the bridge of death where some characters died, and right away she was dreaming of screwing someone. Why does it so blatantly ignore the trauma she just went through and instead focus on how big the bad guy’s back is? And the number of curse words used in every sentence is just… immature. At least it’s not done as well as it is in high fantasy which has plenty of badass characters with sharp tongues. The same goes for Crescent City! Other adult books that have both romance and fantasy, like Paladin’s Grace, still have the spicy talk, but it's in situations that make sense! I've been reading romantic fantasy for a long time, but these popular books are just icky-worse than some online novels.
Some Wattpad smut books back in the day had more tension and flavor to the romance than these, honestly. This is just mindless, loveless, very bland, not even exciting, and pretty immediate lust.
And of course, all the male leads are so very willing to endure terrible torture for this random girl they met two weeks ago. But like why, how did they fall in love? Was it off-page? Cause I certainly didn't witness it. Why don't they have the same attitude towards the other random girls just like this one??
Thank you so much!
That’s also a reason why I most likely won’t buy a romantasy book. If the romance and smut would be at least appropriate in the way of where it’s placed, in which scene, it would be so much better.
Because I don’t know about you but I'm not horny if I'd just survive some horrible near death experience. 💀
the character names are ON POINT
Romance outside of mainstream media? What? They are & always been millions of them. From tiny paperbacks you bought for peanuts in the mid & late 20th century, to the shiny covers with golden titles & roses entangled in them you buy now... They always been there, together with detective series. And before, when they were written as episodic stories to be sold in magazines & newspapers... It's because there are so many & mostly badly written that these genres are often looked down. I don't think it's got anything to do with «being outside» or «having a community».
Omg the mug is so cute ✨
Still haven't watched the video, but I really appreciate you putting the "(no)" in the thumbnail title instead of leaving it as another click bait negative commentary ❤ it's been really annoying to me how much TH-cam (and people) priorities extreme and negative opinions especially in the titles and thumbnails.
This is now my favorite podcast 😂💜 loving the deep dives videos that you make 😍
i am hands down a BIG fan of fantasy[90% my book are fantasy], just bought once upon a broken heart and powerless and need to start it today, but i dont like high romance and spice like ACTOR or fourth wing. and nor do i like full on 🔥 book. any fantasy recc that i would like would be nice:)
I loveddd this video essay - I hope you do more!
well, i’ll be darned. i’m literally the person leonie was talking about near the end, who only saw these books as full of smut because that’s how they’re described. i didn’t know how little there actually was, so consider me corrected!
I think it’s a bit reaching to say Uprooted is Romantasy. The romance is only featured in the tiniest of sections while the main plot overshadows the rest of the book. I just found it surprising marketing and readers would loop it into that genre.
I bought the Night World Series in the 90s when it was marketed as supernatural. The series was published again sometime in the early 2000s following the success of Twilight, where they called it a dark romance (before the term meant violence and sadism). I wouldn't be surprised if they published them again as romantasy. And if they did, maybe they could do me a favour and publish the last two books so I know how it ends! 😁👍
It’s so hard to find fantasy with a touch of romance because it’s all marketed as romantasy. I want something to make me feel the way the cruel prince made me feel
🙋🏻♀️ this is me lol. read fourth wing and iron flame for the first time a little over a month ago, and i have since read all of ACOTAR and Throne of Glass. Just started Crescent City.
You captured perfectly that romantasy a blend of YA vibes with adult themes. I’ve read Name of the Wind and The Fifth Season, and while they’re also very good, it doesn’t capture the same magical escapism that I felt when I was a teenager. To your last point-even though a lot of romantasy has characters with a lot of trauma, the romantic part of it helps the idea that despite all the shit the characters go through, there’s someone out there who loves them and helps them through the trauma. It’s inherently more positive than non-romantic fantasy where traumatized characters often don’t get such a happy ending.
Yay! I love relaxing with your video essays 😊
I really appreciate that ACOTAR got me back into reading but now that I read a lot more I just wish it was easier to find recommendations for fantasy books with out romance being the main story plot. I personally don't mind if a fantasy book happens to have a romance in it I just don't want it to be the whole story.
I had my Romantasy phase but I think what pushed me out of it was that the plots of most of the romantasy books I read were excuses for the smut. That's why I kinda understand when people say that it's p*rn, even though that is not exactly it. But everything around is just leading to the spice (especially the trauma)
Spot on video Leonie, as always. I remember "back in my days" someone recommended me "the legend of the ice people" as fantasy, and my suprise.when I realised it is clearily smut. So yeah, it was with us for quite a while.
I don't usually read romance, so I haven't read any of the popular booktok romantasy, but I started seeing some queer recomendations, and some recs from people K mostly trust, so I might finally cave in. I just need the worldbuilding to make sense, otherwise I won't enjoy the story. It doesn't have to be detailed, but needs to make sense.
I love this type of content from you ❤
In theory, romantasy is my jam. I'd love a strong romance story nestled in a fantasy world. In reality, it just...misses the mark. I need believability in how and why the characters connect, i can not and will not suspend disbelief on that front, because otherwise what's the point? I need well crafted characters.
I can endure clinical, bland, underwhelming prose. I can endure pacing and filler issues. I can endure weak worldbuilding, but not inconsistent or logically absurd ones like with Fourth Wing, which isn't a difficult bar to crawl over.
But the characters need to be well crafted. They're often very weakly written. I prefer sapphic content, and there's barely any.
Maybe one day it'll be worthwhile for me, but not today.
I’m super surprised that the bookstore had Uprooted in the romantasy section, there’s the tiniest crumb in there…definitely not a romantasy in my eyes!!
it feels illegal to be this early
i love both fantasy and romantasy but in my opinion, they serve different purposes. fantasy for me is more about political intrigue and high stakes, something that makes me reflect on the societal problems or things like that. while romantasy is more about emotions and escapism, just something to read for fun😌
love your videos so much!!🤍