The Edmund Fitzgerald Investigations
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- Presenter Ric Mixter is one of only a handful of divers to visit the wreck site some 550 feet below Lake Superior. His spellbinding lecture encompasses the ship’s construction near Detroit and the ship’s final voyage from Wisconsin.
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My father was a deep sea salvage diver for the army corp of engineers and worked as a tug deckhand for 40 years. I will never forget that morning when he had his radio on and I was getting ready for school, 5th grade. He said to me in a serene and somber tone "the Fitzgerald went down", like I knew what he was talking about. We lived about 1/4 mile from McClouth steel, he would hear the passing carriers and say something like "that was the Cimcoe passing the Ford" (he towed those ships so many times he knew the sounds of their horns).He was regarded as an expert of the great lakes. If my father was on that ship, I would want them to find out at any cost exactly what made her sink so as to prevent any such tragedy from happening again, but that is me. It kills me how geeked up people got when a scoop of taconite pellets was taken, all the accusations of grave robbing, etc. The body they found was likely that of watchman Cundee. He was always seen wearing those coveralls and would have been in the pilot house at that time. The body proves the theory that she nose dived suddenly, probably from the two 50 foot waves that Cooper described. The first pushed a water heavy bow under, the second plunged her to the bottom. The hatch covers may or may not have been blow off by the 2 monster waves. A crew member hastily put on a life jacket and opened the port side door but was dragged to the bottom before he had a chance to get out and rests by the bow. I suspect if the debris field was searched more carefully, they would find other remains. If they are in the pilot house, nobody reported it. If not in the pilot house, they would have to be in that debris field.
Someone said Frederic Shannon's 1994 dive discovered the bodies of 5 missing crew. Don't know if that is true, I suspect if the found anyone else in the pilot house or debris field, they kept silent about it after the visceral reaction of a few family members.
Great detail about the names and sounds of the ships, thank you. Anyone would hope they all died suddenly and did not suffer or feel alone.
I am not o.k. at all with this guys account of the BIG FITZ BRAGADUCIO CRAP I AM VERY PISSED OFF OF HIM BASHING GORDON LIGHTFOOT SONG.....HE acts like he is a big expert on this subject matter. This guy is a total jerk....
@@kingbee48185 Shannon is also a car dealer,......and who would trust any car dealer? Just like George Tullock, another car dealer, who was one of the founders of 'RMS TITANIC, INC' that practically looted the wrecksite of Titanic.
@@ramonmcelbeney4082 I agree,....I don't like his tone regarding certain people who chimed in on this event a long time ago.
Many are no longer with us to speak in their own defense.
Great presentation but he's being a little too hard on Gordon Lightfoot. The song was written soon after the event and well before the information age (internet). The sentiment, "Fellas it's been good to know ya" was of course historical re-enactment. More importantly it rings true whether it was said by the usual cook or replacement cook or just any of the men onboard. No need to pick apart the lyrics line by line 40-plus years later. Enjoy it as a whole. Moving, timeless. Just my two cents.
i totally agree GL did a wonderful job with his narrative in the song
Wholeheartedly agree!
@@muradpuryear808 Agree wholeheartedly with you on this, and just to show you the golden heart Gordon Meridith Lightfoot, who's birthday was just yesterday, gave all his profits of the song to the surviving family members of all those guys who died on board the Big Fitz. Now, how can you beat that? He's the very, very BEST Canadian singer/songwriter Canada has given the world over, and we ALL are very blessed to have him.
I am far from the first to come to these comments with a defense of Gordon Lightfoot, obviously, but I hope to be the first to bring more of a musician's perspective.
Some of the apparent factual errors in the lyrics, when viewed from a more artistic perspective, can be excused by the device we call "artistic license." One must keep in mind that, first and foremost, Gordon Lightfoot set out to write a song, not a definitive treatise of the facts. I would like to specifically address the lines about "left fully loaded for Cleveland" and "at the maritime sailors' cathedral."
In the case of Cleveland, think about the meter of the song and its pattern of strong beats and weak beats. We are dealing with 3/4 ("three-four," not three quarters) time, and we are arriving at the first beat of a measure as Lightfoot prepares to sing the word "Cleveland." He needs something two syllables long, leaving the third beat of the measure open to give some space between lines, and with first-syllable emphasis to match the strong beat on the first beat of the measure. Examining the beat pattern, it is obvious why he chose Cleveland, even though that is a factual error.
Any Detroiter will tell you it's called "Mariners' Church," not "the maritime sailors' cathedral," but again, let's look at the beat. Lightfoot needs to fill eight beats here, again leaving the ninth beat open to give the line an ending space. I will capitalize the syllables that occur on the strong beats to show how they match proper emphasis: "MAR-i-time SAI-lors' ca-THE-dral."
Hopefully I have driven home the point that, even though some of the lyrics are factually erroneous, they are really better seen as master word-smithing and songwriting on Gordon Lightfoot's part. I think the continued popularity of the song, some 45 years after its release, has a lot to do with Lightfoot's mastery of his craft.
@@danbasta3677 Lightfoot the best Canadian singer-songwriter? Anne Murray can make a very strong claim to that title as well. I don't mean to slam Lightfoot in the least bit -- his greatness is indisputable -- but definitely don't forget Murray.
Mr Mixter says that Captain Cooper didn’t believe that the Fitz bottomed out, but I watched an interview of Captain Cooper where he stated that’s EXACTLY what he thought happened, because of the downed fence rail: he said, “Fence rails break from a ship HOGGING.” And apparently, hogging occurs when a ship BOTTOMS OUT.
Well. Cooper is wrong anyway. Listing, Hogging; and fence rail down occurs also due to hull failure. Remember, 2nd Mate Richard Orgel testified the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather. Said McSorley himself called it the "wiggling thing". Plus lead engineer of the ship said Fitzgerald wasn't meant to carry the amount of cargo she was during the 70's. Stress on the hull. Especially in bad weather
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa I'm not disagreeing with the other things listed as possible causes. To be honest, I think ALL of these things played a part in the tragedy: fyi, Captain Cooper stated that the 'immediate list' McSorely reported indicated (to him) that either the Fitz "bottomed out, or suffered a stress fracture of the hull". He seemed to lean toward the bottoming out because of the fence rail being down. Now I would think that someone with his years of experience as a ship captain would have SOME idea what he was talking about. You said Cooper was a 'company man': I wasn't aware they worked for the same company.
He said it also could've been a stress fracture. He didn't have an opinion on the nature of the damage, only that it had occured.
L Haviland: you are correct. He did indeed say stress fracture and hogging.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa So basically, you're saying that Bernie Cooper, who was in the same storm on that night and commanding the only vessel trailing the Fitz at the time, was full of crap about the Fitz bottoming out? WHERE,......DO,.....YOU,.....GET,....OFF, PAL?
Where's YOUR bulk freighter Captain's credentials?...............................................................we'll wait.
From everything I've read and watched, the Edmund was not sound to sail and given new safety guidelines, the patch jobs that were applied would never have been permitted. There were several "patches" put on the problem areas that did not correct the underlying issue. The ship was not stable. It twisted back and forth in the middle, eventually snapping in two.
From an old fair-weather-only, bay sailor with only the past 20 years of sailing and limited boat buiding experience:-
What strikes me about the sea is that when things go wrong, the sea reminds you who the boss is and that the consequences ( fortuneately minor in my case ) are inevitable. While we all know that one cubic metre of water weighs one metric tonne, that fact doesn't start to sink in until sea conditions start to go against you.
Great presenter of a great presentation. Thank you for sharing your time and Wisdom
Very interesting presentation. Have never seen this much information before.
In fairness to Gordon Lightfoot he and all the Shipwreck inquest experts Mettalurgists etc could not have really known of any one of the accurate theories put forward since 1975 as to the single cause of this tragedy. He only wrote the lyrics to this haunting ballad just one year later. His purpose in my opinion was to try and highlight the emotional fallout along with the abject sorrow of the families due to the loss of the ship. I have been in the Atlantic in heavy seas myself and I know how terrifying what a huge wall of green water looks like but what that crew must have experienced was definitely something else. Rip all 29, best wishes to the families and friends of the lost🙏🙏🙏
Poetic license
The Shoal theory is likely bullcrap for several reasons
1. Former 2nd mate Richard Orgel said the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much during bad weather. He said Captain McSorely himself called it the "Wiggling Thing" and that it scared him.
2. One of the last surviving engineers who built the Fitz said in a book the Fitzgerald was NOT designed to take the amount of cargo she was taking by the 1970's. It put stress on the hull.
3. The Fitzgerald's exact Sister ship, the Arthur B Homer was scrapped in the 80's despite having millions of dollars spent to make her longer in 1975. Why? Potential buyers of the ship had concerns about her structural integrity.
4. Canada's coast gaurd went to shoal spot that people say the ship hit, just after the wreck happened. But they saw no broken rocks or red paint. Nothing indicating a collision. In fact, the spot is actually deeper than 6 fathoms
The shoal theory was the Shipping industry's attempt to avoid blame for the loss.
Homer wasn’t a sister ship let alone exact sister ship.
Leave it to an insurance company not to allow a proper investigation! If found out to be negligent they would have been sued big time. How sad.
Thank you. I remember when the Gordon Lightfoot vinyl album came out. My ex wife used to play it.
Thank you, I enjoyed your presentation. I plan on checking with my PBS channel to view all the information that you've given them. I do understand the reactions of the crew's families, but it is sad that more pictures & sonor can't be taken.
Oh yes. PBS. Check that out.
I fully believe and support the late, honorable Captain Cooper. He was a Captain, he was there that night. Ric wasn't.
Interesting topic. He's right though, if GL hadn't written the song, nobody would be talking about it. It also bothers me that we make such a big deal about the people after they are dead. From railroads, to construction, to shipping and many others, nobody cares at all about the danger those in charge put the workers. NOBODY cares until there is a lawsuit. You are expected to "man up" and do your job, even it it kills you. All the unnecessary deaths from tragic events that had no song, are forgotten.
You're correct about that. Hindsight (and corrective action) is always 20-20. How many times have we seen that a stoplight or some other safety measure is installed on city street, after a child on bicycle has been killed by a speeding car? Happens all the time all over the world. People everywhere are the same - they're always in denial.
Lightfoot certainly helped it but I disagree. The fact that she sank almost immediately after her final transmission to the Anderson, all bodies aside from one next to the wreck were never recovered. A whole novel of unanswered questions will always be unfinished.
@19:40 he says the vents are to equalise the air pressure in the hold's!
I sailed on cargo vessels for year's (100 meters length), & they had ballast tanks running the full length of the hold which is what the vents are for. If you're running with no cargo the ballast tanks are filled to weigh her down, ie: running ~~ in ballast.
The hold's are airtight, or should be as close to as possible! No air vents.
The sister ship to one I sailed on the 1st mate died due to going into the bandstand without venting it out 1st. Carrying a cargo of 3000 tons of fertiliser which eats-up all the oxygen.
The Fitz was damaged right away. The keel near the forward 3rd was damaged when the ship slammed against the adjacent side of the launch slip. So badly it needed a year to fully repair. Not wanting to put the ship that far behind schedule, it was patched up, forever sealing her fate. Crews immediately noticed abnormal issues with vibration and springing that could never be fixed or explained. Even the ships engineer's couldn't figure out why it ran so different than any other ship. She finally broke during the storm. Not a clean break like the Morrell or Bradley, but a massive crack near the keel and exposing not only the ballast tanks but the cargo hold. The break was right in the vicinity of where the damage was done during the launch; explaining why she slowly went down by the head. The final blow was the huge waves captain cooper reported slamming his ship from the stern. Of course the workers who built her said that they did a good job. Its the launch that caused the problems
I read about this a long time ago, I think I had seen footage when it was launched.
Good guess
Speculations..maybe ,maybe notBu5 it was so weird when she hit a dock during her launch..how did they allow it to happen?
Almost got it, Ric. It's the Mayflower, Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria, and CSS Virginia (Merrimac)..not the Monitor.
There wasnt may be 3 big waves Cooper say 3 big waves went over his life boats above they held his ship down an prayed it would start back up..having been lucky he didnt sink he realized shortly those big waves had to have gone 9 miles to the Fitz an pushed on her hard because 15 minutes later she was off his radar...he said in his own words that the 3 sisters almost took him down he was feeling like it was his end...thats why his heroic about face is so important he didnt take to long before he said we are it we are gonna go back..the coast guard ship the one alive waa over 20 hours away...an they alomost sunk most of their trip was brutal after the peak of the storm it still rage a 4 th day...
Unless I missed it somewhere else, the presenter totally failed to mention the “bad list” reported out by the Fitz. The presenter basically goes in lock step with the coast guard theory. That theory (loose hatch covers letting in water) fails to explain the bad list McSorley reported. I’m not a naval expert and I don’t know that shoaling is the right answer but water in the cargo hold wouldn’t explain the list as far as I can tell.
And he supplies video footage from the wreck showing a large number of undogged hatch clamps. Clamps only provide force.....when they're clamped.
@@ShortArmOfGod OK but you are helping to make my point. I am not arguing the hatch clamps could have been installed better. But lets say there were no clamps and water was leaking into the cargo hold. That would cause the ship to ride low in the waves. But it would not cause the list that McSorley reported. Therefore, the hatch clamps can only be a secondary cause. There was water in the ballast tanks causing a list and his pumps weren't keeping up. These are the precious few facts we have from what they reported.
I didn't hear him mention the ballast tank vents being blown off either. If the hull / tanks were damaged bad enough they couldn't pump it out then it likely would have started splitting in half there being weakened so we will never know for sure but it would be interesting to know which vents were missing on the deck. @@richis2fast4u
@@ShortArmOfGodyou don’t think that with how violently and suddenly the Fitz went down, it could’ve possibly jarred some of the clamps loose? From the studies I’ve read, they’ve said the bow section could’ve went down at upwards of 40mph. Combined with the water pressure going up rapidly, thousands of tons of taconite tumbling around….I think she bottomed out somewhere, and when she lost those vent covers, it was sinking from then on and the sister waves Capt Cooper reported to McSorely dealt the final blow.
Thank you for the excellent presentation! I do have some questions surrounding statement of the remaining hatch covers blowing off from the air pressure within the hold because the forward two were open to ambient water pressure as she plunged. If that were to occur the hull would have had to be inclined nose-down and the water-tight integrity of the hold would need to remain intact to create a localized pressure differential between the inside of the full and the surrounding water pressure. This would suggest that the ship had not yet broken her back. If that occurred, it would seem likely that hatch covers furthest aft would be the most stressed. Yet if one of those were to fail, I would think there would be an immediate loss of all buoyancy - which is not supported by the evidence that only the bow has taconite pellets settling upon it.
One other theory which I recently heard (not here) is that when she broke, the stern section, still maintaining some buoyancy ,folded forward and swung around (still connected by cables) and made contact with the pilothouse - causing some of the damage seen there. While I thought that was interesting, it did not account for the forward mast above the pilothouse, remaining unscathed.
Perhaps we will never know for certain. It would be desirable to have a proper forensic accounting of the demise of the vessel.
Cooper said on record he believed it bottomed. I don’t understand why the presenter would say otherwise.
Because there just isn’t proof and it was strictly “at a glance” it was observed on radar
I agree….& would believe the assessment of Cooper & other seasoned captains who were actually THERE that night & are WAY more familiar w/their ships, Great Lakes weather, & their crews, than this guy swooping in & attempting to play Monday morning quarterback!😏
@@MrBighouse75there really isn’t proof of anything. Only the crew knows what actually happened.
Hey don't dis the song .
Cooper interview he said. I don’t care what anybody says at 3:10 in afternoon it either bottomed out or had a stress fracture in the haul! So there for he believed it bottomed out. Because he also said fences rails don’t go down from a ship sagging they go down from a ship hogging. And you can find this information on TH-cam.
Ric Mixter crushes it....again.
Gordon lightfoot job as a song writer is ti put words together that sound poetic an have a musical harmony he has to sing words that go together that the lyrics that fit in the song...the words are important to go with the music...yes he got a lot of truth but his job was to right a song that sound like poetry...first...painting a picture
(Inspired by "The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot)
'Neath the wind and waves
Are many mariners' graves
Where lost souls forever are buried
On board that great ship
Till the sea loosed each man's grip
Not one of them even seemed worried
But November's tempest
That great vessel did test
None of its crew were survivors
By waves men were tossed
And all hands on deck lost
Their graves found by deep sea divers
Not many prevail
'gainst a furious gale
That keeps all the sailors a fearing
Save for a sturdy cape
There could be no escape
From sailors and ships disappearing
She listed to port
And then she came up short
As the lake sought right then to claim her
The crew fought all night
To set the ship right
From the unwelcome waters to drain her
But no matter how they fought
Their efforts were for naught
As there could be only one winner
The bow soon was full
Drawn down by gravity's pull
That spared neither saint nor sinner
It was already too late
When The Anderson's first mate
Phoned the captain of the vessel now sinking
"We're holding our own"
But his fate was unknown
As his ship the sea water was drinking
Brave men met their doom
With their great ship now entombed
On the cruel lake's rocky bottom
Sailors nine and one score
Suddenly were no more
For the witch of November had got 'em
I'm not sure if they prayed
Or what price they would have paid
To see another day dawning
But for them the bell did toll
As they sank in the shoal
While the angry sea was still yawning
It's been forty years
And an ocean of tears
Since that stormy night in November
To those brave men who are gone
We sing this mournful song
But in our hearts we shall always remember
© 2017 - 2018
When it sank it was coast to coast news, all the majors covered it, front page on the New York Times even!
in many documentaries, that launch and big splash is said to have been premature. but ed demansky does not mention that at all, so i don't know...
When the hatches where torn off they wouldn't be lifted straight up, so the first side to lift would shear the dogs and the opposite side would not. Also to assume the forward hatches were caved in by water is a big assumption, you have all that cargo sliding forward if it blew a hatch cover off back further the cargo itself could have caved the forward hatches in. The shoaling out theory Bernie Cooper was there and I trust his thoughts on it, but you don't have to actually strike a shoal to damage a hull due to hydraulic forces that occur when coming close the hitting bottom.
I love the RHPL !!!
I hope this reaches some inquiring minds, specifically the guy who is giving the presentation . I did have a thought and curiosity as to weather these steam turbine engines were Governed for over-speed or not. In other words if the propeller comes out of the water at FULL SPEED AHEAD will the engine gain tremendous speed ? I have been puzzling over this shipwreck and don't know why, but sometimes I like to try to figure things out, for instance the violent looking twist of the center section could have been a result of the propeller coming out of the water for one of two reasons, ( nose dive at the front going under water or extremely turbulent waves) the engine gains tremendous speed, then as the propeller gets back into the water it would be the equivalent of dumping a clutch on a car and possibly all of that torque all of a sudden could have caused the center part of the ship to twist apart like that and if this happened more than once , this could possibly explain the damage. Just a theory. I have looked at several video's and this is one that nobody has touched as far as I can tell.
shoals
That force would likely pale in comparison to the unimaginable momentum of 52 million pounds of water flooded cargo rushing forward in the hold, as the ship inclined downward, combined with the forward / downward momentum of the ship itself, before coming to an abrupt stop as it collided with the lake bottom. If that did happen, any remaining air in the forward hold would have risen aft and would have kept the stern buoyant. I don't think we will ever know for certain.
He seems very fond of his own opinions.
He's likeky right though. The shoal theory is such bull. The Fitzgerald's exact sister ship the Arthur Homer was quietly scrapped because the fleet had concerns about her structure in bad weather.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa
You forgot the most important reason that it was scrapped:- that although the Arthur B. Homer had been lengthened to 806 feet it had not been converted to a self-unloader, so it became obsolete in 1980 when THE LAST steel mill (in Lackawanna, N.Y.) with dockside unloading facilities CLOSED DOWN. For several years that had been the only destination for the Homer after being loaded at Duluth. The same fate awaited the Johnstown - another almost sister of the EF and the Homer and after their final downward runs to Lackawanna steel mill both proceeded to Eerie, PA., where there's many a photograph of them laid up in the marshes, side by side and looking very forlorn. After that they were both towed off to be scrapped. At a cost of US$8M EACH to convert to self loaders it was considered to expensive ab undertaking. I'm not saying that it's structure wasn't called into question, but I have read that any queries regarding its integrity were addressed when the ship was lengthened to 806'
.....too fond,....and quite frankly,....arrogant.
When the captin made his statement about going on deck he had 4 or 5 crew who were 18 to 20 years old u know that age when u think ur invincible...he was just yelling no heroics...he obvisously didnt want to see some one get swept off deck because it would be nothing he could do..in those conditions...
The hit bottom and broke in two theory seems like the most likely one for many reasons.
Very nice enjoyed ur speil...jk...no serious nice work...i agree with the gordon lightfoot song...its a song that had poetic structure the words have to flow...its seems he kept pretty close to the story....
I was wondering. We’re those sub hunters From selfridge. ? Because there was a P3 Orion unit there
Good basic presentation.
But the ‘Holier than thou art’ disposition is cringeworthy.
I'm confused is this a documentary for the Edmund Fitzgerald or a commercial for the lecturer? Lol
There's another documentary about a newish super freighter who sunk in minutes similar to the big fitz it went down in a hurricane (orchard?) Because of the air vents. They were blaming hatch covers and crew as well but it was the vents it's on TH-cam coffin ships or something like that. They also had hatch clamps that were both tightened down and tied off with a cats cradle and after the implosion explosion they were also pristine but were dogged down. It was studied at the maritime study in the Netherlands. They tried to blame the crew the families wouldn't have it.
Yes
MV Derbyshire
Also, I didn’t appreciate his constant jokes
In reference to the fitz it appears as u said to she had no front water pumps an tje water could go any where i think being lifted by waves coming behind her how long was it before the front of the ship had unkowni g filled with enuf water that the tremendous storm that was peaked out an at its strongest at 7:15 pm pushed on her just heavy enuf...u have to think as hard as the storm was beating on the 2 ships that it just felt like another hard wave except this were the 2 biggest...an that was enuf...its snowed an she was gone....i find it strange that snow came an then the fitz was gone....
I t was almost as long as the marriot hotel in detroits renaissance center is tall. That is massive.
Caption of the Anderson said to stop and wait the weather out. But the captain of the Fitz kept going . Why? Was he Racing the Anderson ? Did he have to make good time for the company ?.
If this was a plane crash every piece of it would be picked up and put in a hanger to be investigated. People loose family members in plane crashes to. Families are out of line. Needs to be figured out
It's different because they aren't going to pull up the ship to figure out what went wrong.
I do think the families are overly sensitive, people die in car crashes all the time, my parents were killed in a car crash. I don't expect everyone to forever honor the intersection where it happened by not driving there nor did I expect the car to be preserved or whatever. Our car was sent to a junkyard where it got recycled. Two people died in it it was just a wrecked car.
For some reason people get melodramatic about ships. If a building collapses they don't leave the rubble there and treat it as some holy ground, they clean it up and build something else.
So I can see both sides of it but it does seem like the families like the attention or "specialness" for lack of a better term or being the victims.
@@Vichedges sorry to learn about your loss, the way it happened....
I think perhaps because the ships don't all break-up like cars n planes, that they are there intact, I guess makes its melodramatic
And also except for the immediate family no one really feels anything about the loss,
Did this guy just rip Gord for his lyrics in the song? Are you kidding me, who does something like that? I’m not Canadian but Gord is gold and this guy is off his rocker and wouldn’t believe him if he said hello to me.
One man had a Heart Attack when they Launched it and died
The Keel had problems from the get go. New evidence. Also the Double Bottom had problems like the Titanic. Bad Design ?.
The presenter opinions don't fly with the facts... Bernie Cooper gave the only factual statements, he was there on the water. Love Gordon Lightfoot for sharing the EF song 🎵 heard it growing up in NZ when I was a kid - wouldn't have known about it otherwise.
The Coast Guard Dropped the ball !!
The pictures were blurry and so was the presenter.
Good thing the ark was only about 510 feet long, otherwise none of us would be here.
however,Jehovah made sure the contents would be safe...
@@sorehair7075 And gave Noah instructions how to build it.
729 feet 29 crew weird coincidence
I saw a Fitz lifeboat in Mi. 30 yrs. ago and it wasn't inflatable.
They would have had a-couple of rigid lifeboats & probably a-couple of inflatable rafts too.
They had two steel lifeboats, but they had two inflatables as well that were still in their cubby holes all folded up.
Why at 24:52 do you say that the lifeboats were inflatables??????
They had 2 rigid lifeboats (pictured) & 2 inflatable life rafts.
The Captain of the Anderson also asked the Ford family ship. And they refused until the Coast Guard Asked them. Wow. Figures🙄
Interesting but I can't see anything about the building of it
Mr Frenchman that's why America is great we know how to sensatize emortalize and photolize
I don't think anyone ever did take what the cook said in the song literally, like he really said "it's been good to know ya". How would Gordon Lightfoot know what the cook said? They all died.
Kind of like the stupidest movie ever made, 'The Perfect Storm'. Nobody knows what happened on the ship during The Perfect Storm. All conjecture.
That’s called “artistic license.”
I am not gonna watch this video because the quality is so freaking awful.
Has this been recorded with a camera from a LCD monitor under the wrong angle or so?
I get this distortion when my laptop screen is bend too much backwards.
I can't see any detail.
One thing i never think of is why...i like shows like quincy or NCIS i think we all want to know answers its just our human nature...i dont feel or ever had a morbid out look torwards life...but i loved quincy as a kid....an all those dectective shows 5 O....manix chips emergency .. ....thanks good speech...clamped down as perfectly as possible with the deck showing flexing terrible like shaking a carpet matt out a ripple..there is no way those heavy stiff hatch cover didnt twist straight an allow water in the blame goes on the storm waves an winds 100 sustained 40knots average waves 12 to 30 feet..for 3 days of sailing straight....and lots of weight on her like useall...pushing limits as always its is life.....
Did Captain Cooper have the same theory as Ric does to the Fitz sinking? Rip
Nickel !!!!
Every safety measures but it Sank so fast ? 🤔😫
Thats not true after passing by 6 fathom shawls he reported having a list unkown an at that time both his radar attennas were torn off so the wind was very strong it made the Fitz blind from 6 fathom southward....an the anderson was asked to keep me on radar..he had picked up a list though somewhere near 6 fathom.....u have to think as hard asthe weather was slamming waves up her stern the ship was get banged around for 4 hours since turning south...who could say what was happening as the ship got lifted by waves 20 foot an up steady...an the storm winds had changed once an not in there favor....the true shame is 800miles 17 miles more an she would have got to safety...unfortunate the storm peaked before...thanks for the forensics...i really enjoy hearing this...building america is no safe task i had no idea our great lakes were so trecherous...holy wow batman
I typed a comment here thanks to my phone sending me suggestions of stuff...but i wanted to be know...built in 1957 58 the Edmund Fitz was an still the fastest ship at 16knots...all the modern 1000 footers with 3 times the horse power manage to get just over 14knots some 15 knots...but the Fitz is the fastest at 16 knot nothing today has her matched on pace...she was
Gordon Lightfoot is very much alive !
This is definitely on the "tabloid" side of the different conversations about how the Fitz went down. He reaches a bit here at times
Life boats were NOT inflatable what's he talking about they were 2/50 men lifeboats on board and there were two rafts on board and many oars and many life preservers so whatever you're talking about you're wrong
Im deeply offended for the families that guys like this are getting paid for their ideas.Capt.Cooper was there,i will trust his opinion sir.Check out history mystery man .
Capt.Darrell Walton does a great interview, several actually
I can’t believe this journalist knows so much about the things he admits he doesn’t know about. Particularly, pronouncing that the ship could not have touched because he didn’t see scratches on the aft of the ship. Maybe it didn’t strike aft. Maybe it was forward or amidships The storm was raging with high seas, it is perfectly conceivable that the waves smashed her down on the shoal and picked her up again before the aft section struck. The waves are lifting and lowering the ship 10, 20, or even 40 feet!
Did anybody look at 6 fathom shoal to see if there was broken rock or other evidence of bottoming out like paint scrapes.or metal shards?
@@macmayfield2518 yes they did all they found was it was deeper than originally thought
Some on the bradley said in 20 foot seas steel life boats are worthless u cant launch the in inflateable raft are ur only better option...the life get tossed about when the lake is that violent....the survivor from the bradley had said that...inflatable are the better option if not the only...one
Speculation is not fact. But after years of investigation, it's almost certain that Gordon Lightfoot staged the wreck because he thought his song wasn't getting enough air time.
An American shipwreck is dumping oil in Alaska and as an American citizen I shouldn't be that upset about it. Cou. can shove it!!!!
Trust me brother there's a helluva lot more you should be upset about rather than some lost oil in Alaska!
@@fedupwithfed4047 Yep. Misguided anger. Common amongst the people of western nations
he is only assuming the only person I believe is Capt of the Anderson he said it bottom out and it all make sense got the call the moment friz's pass the shoals we got a list and flooding
It's a little known secret that every time you ask Scotty for more power occasionally the ship blows up. They came from a time when manly men new that life was risk. Now it's foolhardy if you hug your grandma.
Gordon Lightfoot said in a interview .Canada& Michigan made him change some of the lyrics . Wonder why?. He never said why. Or he knew something was Not rite.
Theres alot of details left out
John Nersinger that’s because this guy doesn’t know anything about the ship. He’s making money off of this tragedy.
Agreed, that was the same conclusion I arrived at also.
Mixter comes across as quite arrogant and seems to support the propaganda of the inestigation rather than the eyewitnesses who have
far better credibility than he's giving them credit for. Red Burgner in particular.
The heart attack happened as the titanic was launched.
Thank-you 🙏🙏🙏 Shared...Tuesday June 25th 2023 931 am ..Windsor,Ont Canada❤🩹❤🩹❤🩹💥💥💥💥
294 ? 29officers. Huh.
🥃🎄🥃🎄🥃 ice my Arse it was the horseshoe tsunami from whitefish bay that was the right bitch this night. Still the storm and bay/coastal squeeze area that sank the Andrea Gail was bigger, so surge waves are 50-85 ft doing similar mph ...let’s go for the middle and pick 67.5ft doing 55mph for the surge wave that struck the Fitzgerald. And 85ft doing 70mph for the surge wave that struck the Andrea Gail. Still nothing compared to landslide tsunamis and nothing will ever beat Low Pressure ocean blister tsunamis. RIP The mariner victims of these falls from grace .💧💧💧💧💧💦
Mixter always does a good job with his presentations in terms of keeping the audience interested and being very thorough, but when he makes statements where he is ignorantly adamant about things he can't possibly know to be 100 percent true, and when he condescendingly dismisses sound and fact based theories, that really resonates poorly with me to the point of almost pissing me off.
I'm talking specifically about the potential of the Fitz grounding out on six fathom shoal. How does Mixter explain Captain McSorley reporting damage to the Anderson within a few minutes of passing over or close to the shoal, And, that the damage he reports is consistent with experiencing a groundout.
The damage being; the starboard list(**the shoal would have been on the starboard side), the lost vent covers (***the change in air pressure all of a sudden from massive influx of water due to rupturing a ballast tank or two would blast the vent caps right off)and most obvious is the downed fence rail(*we know a fence rail only breaks when a ship hogs, exactly what grounding out would do).To me, this is as much off a smoking gun as you can come up with.
Not to mention Captain Cooper backing it up, I mean c'mon! Of course they grounded out! They ruptured only 2 tanks (the 2 connected to the vents that had the covers blown off) That meant it wouldn't sink rapidly and could continue down bound as it did for four more hours. A third point to support this is the fact that the middle section of the wreck completely desintigrated when the bow slammed into the lake floor at 35mph and the screw was still turning causing the stern to twist over on itself until she broke into two pieces at the recently damaged and weakened mid section of the ship. All these facts completely and logically support the groundout theory. I mean, here's the timeline quickly.
3pm- Fitz is sailing over or very near six fathom shoal.
310pm- Fitz tells Anderson of some recently developed issues they begin having. A starboard list**, 2 vents gone*** and a fence rail down*.
410pm- Fitz asks Anderson to guide him stating both his radars had been disabled. Damage suffered an hour prior would have likely contributed to this.
640pm- Anderson nearly swamped from astern by two massive, 35 foot waves back to back, and possibly a third sister following.
710pm- Last communication. Fitz went down minutes from this time.
1976- wreck found in two pieces. Bow upright but badly damaged and buried in mud 25ft deep. Stern upside down 170 feet from bow at an angle. Middle section (200ft) was desintigrated into small pieces upon impact with bottom. It had been damaged by rubbing on six fathom shoal and therefore weakened, making it easier to be twisted and torn apart. Capt. Cooper recalls thinking at the time right when the Fitz was sailing near treacherous six fathom shoal that the Fitz was
"A little closer than he would ever like to be to Caribou Shoals". That is an eye witness statement right there. LOGICAL CONCLUSIONS BASED OF FACT>
How do you know the cook didn't or did say that to the men on the crew? either way who cares about that
The concept of "overtime" on a ship at sea seems to me to be a misnomer, or at least it should be, since one would think that once out on the water during a run, you'd be on the clock 24/7. I mean why not? While the boat's moving you're in danger by just being on the ship, sleeping or working, so what the hell is "overtime"? A seaman should be getting paid for every second he or she is onboard a ship running its route, period. A very weird concept that just shows how money-hungry the Fitz's owners were.
This guy, Ric Mixter, is a mainstream media mouthpiece at best because he never talks the obvious, and skirts the truth just like his buddies at PBS and NatGeo are so well known for doing, who are also both known to be "governors of truth," to put it politely, or just simple liars in reality. They push the bankrupt theory of evolution down our kids' throats while promoting the same lies to substantiate their garbage theory, and they, and Mixter, continue that tradition of truthlessness straight into the wreck of this crew.
The truth is, this ship was treated like a friggin' souped-up pick-up truck from her first voyage on, and the owners were so blindly stupid, that as they bent paperclips back and forth until they broke while contemplating how many millions they were making, that they didn't apply that basic scientific concept to their giant steel cash cow. This ship died from metal fatigue, broke up on the surface, and this guy apparently doesn't have the balls to point out this reality. I kinda like him as a speaker, but as a conveyor of truth - he sucks just as bad as any other mainstream media prostitute.
The omission of facts is still LYING, Ric.
Billions????????? I don't think you know what a billion is!!!!!!!
Omg it's a song.
Wow, people were petty even before 2020. No pictures, don't polish the bell. I want truth and reality in my world. It's not pretty but that's why adults are suppose to be able to handle it. Be tactful yes, be a little bitch no. Also, it's an American ship, just because it sank in Canadian waters doesn't give them any say or license. Unless you want to be considered an adversarial country respect ship ownership because it's the right thing to do. Right now it's a wreck, unless someone wants to clean it up (I thought not) perhaps it should be public domain. Either way Canada's not on the whiney list. All these sensitive people are just lucky they'll never get the true details because it's protected by 500 feet of water.
Canada certainly does have jurisdiction over the waters. It doesn’t matter who owned the ship.
4 ft wave is a lie. auther anderson had 12 ft waves on deck with no problem
I think he’s referring to a 4’ swell of water on the deck of the ship after the bigger wave hit.
Largest thing ever launched? I may be wrong but wasn't Titanic 800 feet, then Brittanic a little bigger again, then the Majestic even bigger again?
Honestly I'm surprised Fitzgerald is only 700 feet. Usually cargo ships are known as some of the biggest vessels on the seas. 700 feet seems kinda small for a cargo ship.
He means for Great Lakers. In the 1950's the Fitz was the biggest. Much bigger ships were around by the time she sank
Yep, biggest on Great Lakes 👍
Fresh water,,,,,,
Yeah well the Fitz was built with welded hull plates- like Liberty ships section by section meaning as cheaply as possible. Welds get brittle when they get cold, then subsequently become weaker. If the welds are so strong why did its owners of the Fitzgeralds sister ship cover up the weakness of the welds by having the ship broken up for scrap. Its true that the Homer sailed on- but this is important how many shipping records did the Homer set? The Fitz was routinely overloaded as a matter of regular practice starting the weakening of the hull. And the Fitz was ,it is known, routinely back welded to repair broken welds. So this MIxter guy quotes some of the Fitzes builders as saying they took great care in the construction of the boat because of their tender hearted concern for the lives of the crewmen. That is simply not true! These ore freighters were designed like a giant weak canoe with small amounts of hull strength- no water tight bulkheads so that theoretically a half inch hole in the hull could sink the boat.. I covered the sinking of the Fitz when I was in college and was the first to break the story about her destination being Detroit- not Cleveland. I was criticized for getting a factual error in the story. The bulk of the news coverage then changed to state she was headed to Cleveland- Lighfoot wrote his song shortly after the sinking when the consensus was that I was wrong- when in fact I was correct and other Journalists were wrong!. As to how it broke up on the surface. It is shown by the condition of the wreckage that it did break in half, just like the Lake boats that break in half when they are being towed across the Atlantic to be scrapped.
Face it, the ore freighters are built to a price point and then used until they showing obvious signs of falling apart. The giant corporations that own and run the boats have shown a clear pattern of using them until they are no longer delivering large profit margins- if they have to pay off the relatives so what? You are right - it is a horrible design. So if you are a Journalist draw the conclusion that is supported by the evidence.
best
Bruce Peek
This was interesting. I dont agree with everything he said though.
.....me neither,......to me,.....he was trying very hard to support the Coast Guard's finding of the sinking. The rest of the bulk freighter fleet shared a different opinion that the 'complacency of the crew' was NOT at fault for not dogging the clamps properly. I believe the weight of that rogue wave that hit the Anderson first finally caught up and simply overwhelmed her and pushed her down through the waves till she finally surrendered and went to the bottom.
I think that the presenter's remarks about Gordon Lightfoot's ballad are pedantic and petty. Has the man never heard of poetic licence? I guarantee that, were it not for that song, the internet searches for 'edmund fitzgerald' would be zilch.
I agree. Not necessary.
This whole thing seemed to be an infomercial for the presenter
@@TowGunner Agreed. He’s awfully sold on himself.
He says he wanted to take the coffee cup that he saw at the bottom of the wreck site. After hearing that I don’t want this man to dive on any Great Lakes wrecks. He can’t be trusted. It’s my own opinion.
It's a coffee cup...Relax...
@@fedupwithfed4047 women are so emotional
@@fedupwithfed4047 It is a gravesite, would I take anything from your gravesite?
Calm down Kimmy
This guy is a fool! He tells fables very well.
How much time have you spent working on a freighter easy to sat what the crew did wrong but very different to actually.be there ..... don't talk smack about the crew or Lightfoot...you just trying to make money and get props talking about something you know nothing about you only read about.it
This guy's a liar and a shill. I wouldn't, and don't, believe hardly a word he says since PBS and NatGeo determines HIS "truth." He's a "reporter" right? Well, "reporters" don't advance theories - it's not their job - so why does this guy have so many of them, and especially those that ignore the real issues, such as abuse of the boat over 17 years, hmm? Reporters these days are harbingers of stories, not truth, and you'd do well to remember that...