The Horrible Secret of the Erdtree's Birth: Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree DLC Lore Theory
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, we speculate on the hidden meaning of the Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree DLC title, as mentioned by FromSoftware director Hidetaka Miyazaki.
What dark secrets lie in the Erdtree's past?
I hope you all enjoy!
/ zayfthescholar
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:56 Setting the Stage
4:15 Death Fed Tree: Lore on Erdtree Burial
8:17 Blood Fed Tree: Miquella and the Haligtree
10:47 Speculation on Erdtree's Birth and Pre-Erdtree Civilization
12:21 The Recurrence of Spiral Pillars
14:36 Concluding Thoughts
References:
You can find a the interview here:
www.famitsu.com/news/202402/2...
This video was largely based on an interesting thread by Redditor LaMi_1, that I elaborated on extensively with additional support and research. You can find the original thread here:
/ the_terrifying_secret_...
You can some further interesting posts from Japanese user Gyokuro here:
grokuro300.blogspot.com/2023/...
and Redditor Big_fat_bear here:
/ noticed_something_abou...
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After the story trailer this vid is aging very well...
100% erdtree was grown by mass death, marika then removed death from the elden ring so that noone could make thier own tree and the golden order could preserve forever, later realizing her order was flawed and shattering the ring
Isn’t there a big tree growing out of a mass graveyard just south of Morne castle? HmmMmmMmm
The bases of minor erdtrees are filled with smashed jar warriors as well 👀
Are you suggesting that when godwyn died, and creater the death root, that's supposed to be the closest thing to creating an erdtree had he died a "true death"?
Even miquella and the finger reader wanted him to fully die for some. . .purpose?
Yeah we can find godwyn body underground connected to failed growing tree
Maybe it failed because godwyn didn't die a real death@@mralabbad7
@@stuartcarter4139damn you're right
Absolutely. The living jars in the trailer seems to hint so.
Farming people.
That was my theory for the haligtree:
A giant bewitching tree to do a mass sacrifice of albinaurics, misbegotens, etc, for miquella to achieve his goal.
And that's why Marika has a plan for everyone to struggle eternally as Gideon says.
Everyone fighting eachother, and only the strongest who gathered other people's runes (strenght) can get to the tree and be sacrificed.
you kind of just bummed me out about Miquella but I appreciate that it's possible ;-;
I hate that you've put this thought into my head 🫥
Omg I loved Miquella until you said this, and I'm glad you did. ❤
He's literally going to sacrifice them during the eclipse (maybe)
If we’re going full tinfoil hat, I like that the character for 影 (shadow) is composed of the 日 (sun) over the 京 (capitol), which is what the erdtree effectively is. So maybe it’s its own shadow.
I wish I could edit this into the video right now lol! So good!
No. This is so silly...
Pretty notable since the in game sun capital (seat of the sun) is within the shadow realm
You can’t ignore the three strokes on the right though. In Mandarin， the character 影（yǐng） has much the same meaning. Shadow, reflection, or it can mean film. 電影 is movie - electric film or shadow. The character without the strokes is 景 which means scenery.
Whatever the case, I’m 100% sure this character and its meaning existed before Elden Ring :)
All this aside, it’s a fun coincidence :)
These comments are so embarrassing. I can no longer take any of you seriously if you lack complete awareness of the linguistic context of Japanese.
This is like when the commenters of a Japanese lore theorist (NOTE: as ridiculous as this might sound, I actually saw this in the comment section of a 上級騎士なるにぃ lore video a week ago) made the claim that the MC is Miquella because when you kill Malenia she says "I met my match" in English-which is her saying that she met "lover" (the meaning of "match" as in a match on Tinder).
Please reevaluate.
Watching this after the release of the story trailer. I 100% believe you're correct in this theory.
Looks like you're going to the shadow realm Jimbo...
You just put me up on a meme I didn't know I needed in my life 😂
Nice one of my fave deep cut memes. 😂
I name you king of games!
I'm gonna be saying this to my friends during gaming sessions for sure. 😂
I always thought the subtitle was strange since the Erdtree actually casts no shadow, only light. Then there is the matter of certain entities in the LB having counterparts known as "Shadows." Maybe this shadow tree is responsible for the creation of those that can or will be shadows, like Blaidd and Maliketh but also the other beastmen of FA. And when those with no counterpart were separated from their tree due to Marika's veil, they became more feral and lost the more civilized aspects their society once had. What if it was the original tree before it was shadowed away to make room for the new Erdtree and the Golden Order? The other thing I can't stop thinking about is how the Haligtree and the Shadow tree are similar in twisting shape and neither looks anything like the Erdtree which kinda resembles a real life Ash Tree, real funny Miyazaki.
That is such a good point! I never thought that the Shadows given to empyreans might also have some connection!
the fact this guy got it is insane, watching this after the trailer
called it!!! that pile of corpses in the new trailer looking like it might be the birthplace of the erdtree is really making this theory seem legit!
For sure the Erdtree (and the crucible Great Tree) must absorb the runes of the dead to consolidate its power. The Erdtree burial sites are one way that was done, where bodies were taken up into the Great Tree roots from which the Erdtree did sprout. The "watering with blood" concept connects to this because blood contains the glittering gold of runes. We can cite the Beast Blood item for that, along with how many animals such as rats and bears that prey on others or scavenge corpses become more powerful from runes or drop larger rune items.
Also look at the Sacramental Bud item, which is an "immature bud containing fresh blood...cultivated with youthful, sacramental blood." Aside from it being a clear example of how blood helps trees grow, the connection of youthful blood to youthful growth indicates a possible connection with the nature of the blood given to the characteristics of the tree. This might be why Erdtree burial was bestowed only upon the most honored warriors. It also gives us a clue as to why Miquella's blood was unable to cultivate a strong and mature Haligtree, since his blood is cursed with eternal youth.
One related observation is that you can collect runes from bodies in sarcophagi but not from bodies in the tree roots, lending credence to the idea that the erdtree is absorbing their runes.
🤯
All this just adds so many layers to my questions about how Godwyn’s cursed existence living in death basically throws a molotov into the Erdtree’s system. 😅💀
well, one could argue that said curse would ultimately keep the hypothetical fully blossomed haligtree from ever withering too.
additionally, said curse of eternal childhoold may even serve as an eternal fuel source for its growth while curing miquella in the process... im not saying this was his intention, but think about it... it actually makes pretty good sense.
the game likes to hammer on about how miquella is obsessed with finding a cure for his sister's curse, but that doesn't mean he wasn't also trying to cure himself of his own.
The fact that I knew “Kage” was shadow because of Ghost of Tsushima
Thanks for the instant shot in the feels. 🥲 my best boy
Naruto fans: Kage bunshin no jutsu
Yo same here
Same
@8:54 the reason is: the 'Castle Sol' eclipse didnt happen, thats why you have to kill Radahn before the dlc I think; his grip on the stars prevented movement of the Sun also
interesting...hadn't thought of that!
After starting to discuss the Kanji of „shadow“, it might be more interesting to discuss the composition of 影: it is the „sun“ 日 which shines above the „capital city“ 京 where someone awaits us with „long hair“ 彡. So, whos story is awaiting us in Leyndell?
Making this video almost sent my computer to the Shadow Realm; took over 12 hours to render this bad boy, but I hope you enjoy the extra quality (4k 60FPS)!
Stay tuned till the end because it gets pretty wild haha
What do you think the hidden meaning in the title is?
11:50
That vista is always awe-inspiring, but I don’t think I’ve seen it in such clarity! Totally worth pushing your PC further beyond! 🤩🤭🤩
Lord of Frenzy factually best ending 😂
...and so Miquella is going to the Land of Shadow to find out how to successfully grow his own Erdtree. He'll learn he needs a large Sacrifice to ascend to godhood... just like Griffith. No wonder the spirit in Castle Sol said he needed the eclipse.
The Griffith parallels are insane
Dude, I really think you’re well setting up to become one of the Greats as far as lore TH-camrs go, right up there w Vaati, Quelaag, Smough, Tarnished Archaeologist, Hawkshaw, etc if you so choose. I’ve been super impressed with everything you’ve put out
That is some crazy high praise, thank you so much alch3myst! I just started this channel but I am doing my best to improve with each video. Hope you will stick around for the DLC content!
There is also a spirit at the top of Castle Sol which suggests an eclipse would've been essential for the Haligtree to become divine (like the Erdtree). It's the eclipse which would give life to the bones of the soulless demigods; the revival mentioned in the description of Lhutel's ashes. Or perhaps the Haligtree would've become divine if Miquella could finish nourishing the Haligtree with his blood and that would've made the eclipse possible.
Either way, an eclipse is about concealment and shadows. And the sigil of the eclipsed sun of Sol also looks like a crucible that is turned to spill its contents. So we might finally discover what that is all about as the DLC seems to be about all of those things.
Thanks for taking the time of watch and comment @demokaze! everything about the eclipse is super intriguing to me! Excited to learn more.
You actually revealed something to me. In this video. I never thought to try in Base Elden Ring. Your description of the dlc was very interesting.
I love videos going over various theories :)) thanks for another great video!
hello and thank you for this video.
The medallion on the man in the painting is very similar to the one found in the center of the Gilded Greatshield. It is said in the description of it that it represents the birth of the Erdtree (in the French games)
This video was nicely, done with the video quality and editing being spot on.. Keep this up man I can see your growing a lot in a few months, especially when the DLC drops👍
thanks a ton @deathdea1ing! Just getting started so I appreciate the encouragement :]
Well done, my good sir! Looking forward to more of your lore speculation videos. Keep it up, man!
Thank you Caleb! Means a lot to me
This really makes Miquella’s power of compelling affection truly terrifying. If the Erdtree requires mass sacrifices, then all those traveling to the Haligtree or following Miquella may be like sheep to the slaughter…
The catacomb boss rooms all contain displays of roots of the tree surrounded by corpses; I've always wondered why and am excited to possibly have some light shed on it
It's interesting that all three of the specific references to Erdtree burial you mentioned are affiliated with spirit ash which is specifically ash that has not been returned to the Erdtree.
I know right! I had that thought the whole time I was writing the script but am still not sure what to make of that fact.
I found your channel a couple of weeks back trying to find any lore and I'm extremely glad I did! I'm so excited for this DLC I have a countdown on my phone for the day and am incredibly excited to see what this next bit of content from the game has in store for us!!! 🙌🏼 this is going to be amazing thank you for this video!
Thank you so much @aLoneFox19! I'm hyped too! Just getting started so I genuinely appreciate the encouragement
@@ZayftheScholar you could've had me fooled! i thought you had been making videos for a long time! Still! Glad to be here and looking forward to more content! 😁🙌🏼
appreciate you @aLoneFox19!
My theory: The golden realm is a cul de sac. Queen Marika wished to create a world without death, so she took everyone's grace, creating the Tarnished, and using that she created a phantom Erdtree and the golden realm, banishing the Tarnished and other undesirables to the shadow realm. The Tarnished warred with each other to vie for rights to live in the golden realm. Eventually almost everyone killed each other and they were placed in catacombs in the shadow realm. In the golden realm, the Erdtree recycles all souls continually, granting what is effectively eternal life for the privileged few - or at least, it was supposed to. The Shadow of the Erdtree is the real Erdtree. For some reason, another tree is strangling it, perhaps to extract the sap and prevent the Erdtree from its normal function, and the sap is being collected. The golden realm was formerly the Interstice where souls (runes/grace) would go before being reborn in the real world. Souls (runes/grace) are drawn towards the Erdtree which used to split, recombine and return them to the real world, but because it is now a phantom the souls leave the Interstice through the still-extant root system or some kind of portal and are concentrated as sap in the Erdtree's Shadow which is collected and returned back to the Interstice by the structure shown in the DLC promos, preventing the normal cycle of life and death. Thus everything in the shadow realm is dead and everything in the golden realm is alive, but in reality in limbo. This arrangement was created, at least in part, by removing the Rune of Death. The golden realm functions so oddly because it is a spirit realm made to look like the real world. The Greater Will may have had a part in this, and had nothing to do with the creation of the Elden Ring, which existed independently. The current state of the world is dualistic, which could explain why Marika was hanging from a phased-in segment of a ring and not the whole thing, which exists elsewhere.
Thanks for writing all that out! Pretty interesting!
or, it's analogous to the Great IIfa tree from Final Fantasy 9, which was created to replace the souls of one juvenile planet with the souls of another dying planet.
The Erdtree is basically the tree which gives blessings, fueled by the tree in the realm of shadows, one providing succor to some by having the other drain nutrients from others, thus explaining the trailer's walking burning colossi, the fire theme omnipresent, since fire-burnt areas and volcanic ash or solidified magma provide the best nutrients for plants
Elden Shadow, Ring of the Erdtree
In the shot where the man in yellow is pulling at whatever is impaling him, is that a catacombs doorway behind him? The thing that throws me off is that the number of columns (I can see two pairs of two instead of the normal 3 on each side.) Also I can't tell if the door is further back into like a small hall or recessed area, or if there is just more than one "set" of these archways that are different sizes. The DLC trailer does have a very brief shot of a much more normal catacomb door when they show the tarnished fighting the candle holding robed enemy in the grave yard (it's in the background.) That said, the color of the lighting in both scenes is very similar.
Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in! Welp I'm off to go dig through the trailer again @jamjr84.
Holy shit, this recontextualises the Yellow-mans relation to the mass murder behind the Erdtree’s growth. Well done lol
I reckon the yellow man character, and the omen-horned enemies with the candle, are around the same area. Given that what the dude is being impaled by what seems to be in the similar shape of the candle tree shield, and the candles of the omen enemies are the same - both symbolising the cardinal sin.
Another detail: If you look closely at both the Yellow-man’s spear and the omen horned enemies, the candletree design between both these entities are *crystallised* . I don’t know what it means, but they’re of the same material (the impaling spear and the candle of the omen enemies)
“Grab your tinfoil hats”? I think you meant our mirror helmets :D
It was right there and I missed it 😂
I really had hoped Miyazaki was being literal and thats why the "o" in shadow of the erdtree looks like the curse mark of death.
Maybe he was. Hes been known to throw us off on purpose.
It makes sense, since all other death rituals were deemed heretical when Marika's Godhood was established
i like your videos! so relaxing to listen too, and good video quality :D
Thank you very much!
Really nice theory. I think you are on to something solid!
Thank you so much for taking the time to watch @bronowiczj!
Considering the imagery in the artwork, with the sap pouring out of the tree resembling molten metal, aka a crucible - I am thinking that the Erdtree has really just been the Crucible all along. It's vague but it fits with the obfuscation or deception about the creation of the Erdtree, and leaves room for pretty much anything. I definitely wouldn't rule out some heinous shit being attached to it, like mass sacrifice - possibly as part of an older religion/custom/ritual etc. which could go right along with the Crucible-themed culture hinted at in the trailer.
Shadow of erdtree prolly just means the golden tree overshadows the shadow tree. Leaving that land and tree unknown because of the golden tree, the shadow tree becomes invisible or insignificant
I think that's definitely part of it.
Marika's motives for removing the Rune of Death always intrigued and baffled me. Now you've got me hoping that this gets explored more in the DLC.
It’s possible the “Erdtrees shadow” is referring to a literal in game shadow beast of sort. I always found it interesting that beasts, beings closely related to the crucible, were the beings selected to be the shadows of emperians. It’s possible that if this is the land of the crucible and that is the great tree we are seeing, that the crucible became the literal shadow to the erdtree. We also have never encountered Mikala’s shadow.
There’s a good chance that the being we talk to before going to the land of shadows will be Mikala’s shadow as they too probably are following him.
It would also make sense that marika vieled the erdtrees shadow and hid it away as to prevent the influence of the two fingers and not let them use the power of the crucible against her if ever need be.
Awesome Video!
appreciate it @murderycatdoll1380! more to come soon
Yay! You did a longer video, and one about the DLC no less! Thank youuu, Zayf! Also, your Japanese is very good. 😊
Thank you Taylor
@@ZayftheScholar Awh, I’m honored I could cheer you on to make your videos even the tiniest bit better! I’ve been completely absorbing *all* your Elden Ring videos so it’s the least I could do to repay you! 😅❤️🤷♀️ Since I love being helpful, maaaybe a video focusing on the different interpretations of shadows in the established lore and what it will translate to in the DLC? I’m sure you’ve got tons of ideas cooking. 👨🍳
I’ve been stuck on Miquella’s theories of using an eclipse to revive Godwyn, and how it might relate to this new Shadow of the Erdtree place, or whatever it’s called... And THEN there’s that veiled black-haired pregnant woman who seems super important, but don’t forget the lord character in a room full of deathrite birdcages and maybe there’s an Uld connection and, AND!!! 🤯🤮😵💫
…Okay, I’ll shut up now. Thank you! 🙏
All great ideas that I am noting down now!
@@ZayftheScholar I’m kinda in the same camp as you now. 😅 I sincerely hope Messmer is the bad guy and they don’t alley-oop us and make Miquella break bad! As much as I wanted *Mohguella* to be a thing and some divine bloody insect-seraphim deity hopping outta the cocoon to be a thing and stomp us, I’d be happier if he was still alive and intact somewhere. 🥲
Mohguella 😂
:0 btw i’ve seen all your vids nd didn’t even notice you were a relatively new youtuber
Just started to be honest! 😅 I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment @krashdevaughn5360!
Certainly the Shadow of the Erdtree is not a literal thing, as it’s a tree that literally glows its own radiant golden light, and therefore, it does not cast an actual shadow.
I suspect it will turn out to be more metaphorical, as is being suggested here. The Darkness of the Erdtree might have been a more apt subtitle for the DLC.
U predicted the future like dayum the trailer makes this so accurate
About the spirals - I just realized the Godslayer sword is spiraling too, similarly to the Shadowtree
It would seem that the era before Erdtree was symbolized by duality of forces climbing each other via a spiral. Similar to Caduceus.
Marika then ushered in a new era of the Golden Order, which would remove this duality and install unity - one tree, one God, one Order and so on.
But when you simply remove an important half of life, concepts, ideas and so on - then they can only come back to haunt you.
I believe that the best way to understand the Shadowtree is via Jungian psychology, where the Shadow is an archetypal being present in each and is characterized by being dark (therefore no light is shed on it, thus it is obscured) and growing more when more unsavory traits are repressed. Then it causes hell in personal life as we effectively don't know what is going on, as we repressed our personality too much.
What Marika repressed is the natural duality of life and death.
That is maybe why her shadow keeps biting her in the butt. Her unwillingness for things to change characterized in Radagon prevented her to break the Elden Ring and usher in a new era. Her children are also of a dual nature - decay and abundance. And even they are dual - Malenia being both a being of complete control and chaos. Miquella being both man and a woman, St. Trina and Unalloyed.
Gold Mask accentuates this fault with the Golden Order, that this duality is the true cause why the Golden Order is unraveling. It's this duality.
Dont forget the ancestral spirits and ancestral followers!
"Ancestral spirits exist as a phenomenon beyond the purview of the Erdtree. Life sprouts from death, as it does from birth. Such is the way of the living."
And
"A number of new growths bud from the antler-like horns of the fallen king,
each glowing with light.
Thus does new life grow from death,
and from death, one obtains power."
I did consider bringing them up but I'm not sure how they might tie into the birth of the Erdtree. Any thoughts?
when marika remove rune of death from the elden ring this land was concealed with everything that's related to death, and also there's bo feed to the erdtree and age of plenty end
The tarnished archeologist does a great breakdown on these spiral pillars
One thing that I feel supports your theory is that the Elden Ring had runes of both life and death in it and the rune of death presumably existed for a good reason. Normally death is associated with reclaiming the nutrition that makes up the body. In many ways, death feeds life. So if the erd tree creates eternal life or something that's close to it, then it may have done so by feeding off of a massive amount of death. Now I've heard a few people suggest that the erd tree is just a larger version of what the players runes become after they die. When a player dies their runes look like little golden sprouts. So it stands to reason that the death of a godlike being might produce a massive golden sprout. The Ancient followers also have a lot of language talking about sprouting in their item descriptions and they live around a forest of petrified trees. So maybe a massive ancestor spirit was sacrificed or a great many of them were.
I think your idea is the most accurate based on the existence of the Wicker man, however.
always coming with insightful comments beansnrice321, thanks! Care to elaborate on the Wicker man? I only know it from my man Nicolas Cage 😂
@@ZayftheScholarApparently it was from an account from Julius Caesar when he was trying to conquer the Gauls. In theory it was a part of their sacrificial traditions. In essence a large wicker cage was shaped into a giant man and filled up with captives. It was believed to be maybe a form of psychological warfare because it was usually filled with prisoners of war. It was was assumed to also be part of a fertility festival or tradition. Some even said that burning a bunch of bodies was simply a practical way to make a bunch of fertilizer. I think Julius Caesar even said that but don't quote me on that.
Supposedly this was a prominent enough practice that sometimes local people were chosen for the wicker man sacrifice if no prisoners of war were available. However, since a lot of the evidence for this come from the conquering Romans, many historians assume that the reasons given and many of the details of such practices were largely exaggerated because many of the claims were common ones used my Romans to suggest that a people they were conquering were savage and in need of Roman civilization. One such claim that was often levied broadly and without evidence was that of cannibalism. Romans used that to express to other Romans how bad a people were and rarely was evidence ever presented.
All in all very inconclusive but nearly all pagan peoples were practicing some form of ritual burning as a was to sacrifice to the gods, this included the pre-Christian Romans. So almost certainly the Celts burned something and possibly someones but why and to what scale we can barely begin to guess. Still, I very much like where Martin and Miyazaki seem to have run with the idea and in true Miyazaki fashion, I suspect we will indeed find evidence for/see a spectacular sacrifice. =)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: beansnrice321 always has the knowledge drops! That is some really brutal stuff. Only tangentially related but it reminds me a bit about the Brazen Bull as well, which is I guess slightly ironic considering that wasn't pagan at all but still quite savage...
I dont know if this adds anything but in the trailer in the lava sections we can see structures similar to the archimedes screw that are used to pull lava upward. The archimedes screw is similar in shape to the spiral pilars.
Greetings scholar. I like your approach. About dlc, I strongly feel that we will bombarded with major lore bombs whether we are ready or not. We know from base game that Marika if from Numen tribe, and the citizens of the eternal cities like Numen were not from lands between. The architectural buildings in Nokstela, Nokron, Selia and Ordina somehow is identical to what we see at the Shadow of the Erdtree, we see more when we actually play the dlc, but from what little we see there is at least a similarity from architecture of the dlc areas to what we see in Nokstela, Selia, Ordina and Nokron.
We need to know how the haligtree was born to understand the origin of erdtree
Agreed!
The heroes being "granted" an Erdtree burial also resembles Gwyn and strong Undead feeding themselves to Gwyn's First Flame. Both occurrences have special individuals feeding themselves to the most essential object of worship and presumably prevent them from returning at a later time.
I don't think this kind of parallel is coincidental.
If we weren't going to burn down the Erdtree in the main game, but had a chance to let it be, maybe something akin to DkS3 could eventually have happened and the Erdtree-buried people would return like the Ashen One and the Lords of Cinder, who were forcibly returned to the world.
nice observation @cazalieiben!
your best work
let me cook, the Erd tree seems reminiscent of GRRM's Weirwood trees in asoiaf and by extension, the Godwyn-infested even more so with the eyes scattered on the lands.
to the video's point, it's curious that golden order (and the Erd tree) gained prominence seemingly during times of war during Godrey's heyday. the theory of heroes as the tree's nourishment definitely checks out. and then seemingly post-godfrey came the minor erd trees, came the scattered jars and erd tree avatars to sustain the saplings.
Definitely seems to be some parallels with the Weirwood trees, agree! You lost me a little bit with the Godrick part though.
@@ZayftheScholar editted the original post. I was saying that godwyn-infested erd tree feels like the 3 eyed raven of the weirdwood trees.
Ah! I got it now. Thanks for the clarification. I actually considered bringing up some GRRM stuff but maybe in a future video. Have you by any chance read Song for Lya? I think that story premise could also be related.
@@ZayftheScholar not yet. I have not. Seen it
It's basically about this cult on an alien planet that worship a giant jelly-like parasite and are killing themselves by entering into it and becoming a collective consciousness.
Lord of Frenzy factually best ending 😂
I very much enjoyed this.
Thanks very much for taking the time to watch and comment @FoxBatinaHat!
I can almost guarantee this for one reason: Miyazaki is a huge berserk fan, there is no way that something so similar to the eclipse existing in elden ring lore is a coincidence
I wonder if the Tarnished’s Long March was really a journey to this shadowland devised by Marika to “feed” the tree with the blood of the tarnished. Would kind of explain why Godfrey and the tarnished were simply divested of grace by the Queen for no apparent reason. Regardless, great video!
The sacrifice that made the Erdtree may be just one person, someone we have all encountered. The great and mysterious Elden John. There is a sort of progression in his depictions.
The most prominent of his statues reveal his luscious legs and roots crawling down them. Vines grow from his beard and hair, curl over his shoulder, then down his back.
Then there are the legless statues lining Mohg’s arena around the cocoon.
A third depiction adorns the Four Belfries, his legless form rising out of the branches of a tree.
And then… there is the statue series of a man, bald or with a skull cap, with a plant rising up before him. The later statues of this series have an ever increasing number and size of plant parts growing around him as if to engulf him.
There are ample instances of some trees in the Lands Between growing and twisting around each other. The Zminir Erdtree Church even seems to suggest Erdtrees do the same.
In fact, the minor Erdtrees all look like multiple plants twisting together.
And now I’ve got more stuff popping into my mind. Oh bother..
Interesting! I'll be honest and say I am not really up to speed on Elden John. I'll have to look into it more.
Now, I’m not sure how often anyone connects him to the other statue guy. I think I’ve seen the No hair dude mentioned has a depiction of Radagon before getting together with Rennala. They do have similar root/branches reaching up at the bases of their statues and covering or shaving his hair would fit.
I need to see the names of all these assets, my descriptions are trash.
great vid
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment @bleedszn!
Maybe the shadow of the erdtree is the friends we made along the way
you get it
Fun fact. In my language and culture, Trina, is pretty much the translation to a religious trinity, and that could imply that Micquella, is not only St. Trina, but a third entity as well.
“Tree Sacrifices” in a game that Miyazaki asked GRRM to write the world lore and history over… can’t be some kind of theme GRRM is known for >.>
What happened to grow the great tree and form the crucible magic which allowed the blending of bestial forms? The beasts were fed to the nascent tree. What happened to convert the crucible into the Erdtree? The ancient dragons were fed to the roots of the crucible tree alloying it with gold. Look to the scales of placidusax and marikas history of calling meteors. The light of heaven was stolen by Marika.
The Shadow fo the Erdtree is more likely refered to as 'husk', rather than shadow. The tree in the Land of Shadow is probably the original Erdtree that grew from the Crucible of Life and was later left behind to grow the golden Erdtree. Given the strong presence of Omen features in the DLC trailer, it's safe to assume that Marika somehow stole the Cruicible or its essence to grow a 2nd tree so that only filtered life without beastlike features will be born. Which is probably also why misbegotten and omen are so hated for they are revealing that dark secret. Looks like Marika did not manage to perform a clean extraction if blended life can still emerge.
So what we are travelling to is basically the origin of everything. The place where Marika first set foot, where she ascended to goodhood and where she started meddling with life itself. Which is probably why Miquella is heading there too. Either to drain from the remaining essence of the Cruicible to fix his Haligtree or to grant himself a primordial body since he has to replace his desecrated body somehow.
A light will cause a shadow
spittin' facts
@@ZayftheScholaralso go compare the mimic veil lights that stream over you to disguise yourself to the tree lights that surround the tree. Both look the same. Ironically even the moon light alter has the same lights but there’s are blue. The golden tree overshadows the shadow tree. So in a sense it’s just like the mimic veil, the golden tree is an illusion to overshadow the shadow tree hiding all that’s wrong with the golden order n hiding her past. But it’s just a theroy check it out. Oh and miquella knew of this and specifically went to the shadow tree to become a god just as marika once did
The Erdtree being fed by death is a perfect parallel to linking the fire in Dark Souls. The peaceful and prosperous state of the world is sustained by sacrifice to a great and mindless force, which is managed by a ruling class called gods. Miquella, like Gwyn, used himself as a sacrifice, while Marika, like later gods, shepherded humans for sacrifices. In both cases, the sacrifices work less and less over time, leading the world to decay.
Plus, it could explain why Marika elected to make everyone immortal; if Marika was plotting against the Greater Will, then making it so the Erdtree couldn’t grow, and therefore allow it to die, disconnecting the Lands Between from the Greater Wills, would make more sense. There’s a lot of theory about why Marika does what she does (breaking the Elden Ring, making everyone unable to die, the like), and one of the big ones is that she was fighting against the Greater Wills (which makes sense since she is a Numen, the ancestor of the Nox, who are prolific for wanting to take down the Greater Wills).
O to the minor erd tree location north caelid look across the water to the tree,then look at your map.What is the one thing that stands out when comparing them?The distance to the erdtree is deceptive as well.In fact it looks to not be as far as it actually is on the map.There could be an entire land between all those devine towers.He meant different map and not the same map and different dimension,but where WE have never been.Japanese have a different meaning for explaining somethings differences or pointing out other characteristics,or location.If the veil was taken away we would obviously see it and that shows it being right where the clouds are.Almost the same space we see between the towers.Makes sense with the divine towers.
Thanks for the comment @@adamkorzon2972! Did you maybe not watch my video on this subject @adamkorzon2972? Might be worth checking out.
Without researching too much my theory is that "Shadow of the Erdtree" is equivalent of "the reverse side of the world"
That would also work with the fact that 影 can be interpreted as reflection so I'm open to that idea!
What if Miquella's plan for his haligtree was a 2-birds-one-stone kind of ordeal?
if an erdtree needs to constantly get "watered" in order to blossom, then what would a fuel source like Miquella do to this process?
hitherto we never got to see the result of the experiment because Mohg interrupted the process, which i suspect is purposeful storytelling/omission given the possibility that i am correct.
the theory is that his curse would serve as a neverending source of nutrient for an erdtree which constantly absorbs his constantly rejuvenating youth, curing him of his ailment by essentially transferring the curse to the tree, like a totem and end up being flipped from a curse to a blessing, kinda like an elden ring's take on harnessing the power of a sun for unlimited energy.
it could even serve as protection against potential withering!
the more you think about it, the more it makes sense he would even bother with a new tree to begin with.. it wasn't just to usher in a new golden age for the good of everyone, it was an experiment to see if his affliction could be cured and turned into something useful.
maybe this is what spurred his motivation to find a cure for his sister too, figuring that if his own curse could be cured given the right ritual, then so could Melania's.
this is tinfoil territory btw.
but its food for thought... sorry if i repeated myself too much, english is not my first language and i had trouble illustrating my theory through text. hopefully i did its due diligence though.
The erdtree no longer be so radiant and have a passive healing by just standing in its golden rays, basically at its very prime, can be explained with a interpretation given by SmoughTown, The Elden Ring, the Erdtree and Marika are interconnected, when marika shattered the elden Ring, that act affected herself and the tree, weakening it, but i don’t doubt that your theory might be correct as well, it makes allot of sense.
maybe shadow of the erdtree is more like shadow of marika? Which would mean we’d learn more about maliketh and possibly destined death?
The spilar on the pillars mostly from top right to bottom left. It's the same in the god skin weapons. The altar in the volcano manor is top left to bottom right but the pillars in the room are top right to bottom left. Don't know if that makes a difference but I think there is a connection between the pillars and the god skin weapons.
Also the same in Godslayer's GS
@@Risecream322 It's a good point @risovaljakka5438. That sort of helix like shape is also similar to the fingerslayer blade and sacred relic sword: other items tied to death!
You have a lot of what I was already speculating on, and I’d like to cite you in the video if I make it.
Even Miyazaki's sharts hold lore for the next 5 games
😂
As a lore dork, this format is what I enjoy. Chill vibes, not too much to absorb, and some tinfoil hatting. Keep this kind of stuff up =D
appreciate you taking the time to spread some positivity @evagelios! Thanks so much
This would make one thing very obvious in hindsight. How they treat "Those who live in death" Beyond simply being undead or outside what they preferred. That would make them an actual anathema to the very creation engine that the erdtree was theoretically built off of. For the best strategy to win a war without firing a single shot, is to simply deny your enemy the resources they need to continue, and create a scarcity or void of their needs sufficient to suffocate the endeavor.
A very good point and well written to boot @TeamKhandiKhane!
I thought this was him giving an explicit nod to the "O" in the title. And that we won't understand the meaning of it til we play the game.
The O?
@@ZayftheScholar look at closely at the artistic flair they added to the letter O compared to all the other letters. Apparently it was in the original title as far back as last year with the miquella torrent/field art.
Part of my headcannon is that Miquella’s “curse” isn’t a curse. The reason Marika is dying/turning to stone is because the erdtree is feeding off her. If miquella were to become the next ruler, his eternal youth would allow him to permanently feed the golden order / erdtree
OMG I just realized it's called Shadow of the Erdtree because of Malaketh. Malaketh is the Shadow of the Erdtree, and I am even more convinced now that this history will revolve around how Malaketh defeated Marika as the Gloam Eyed Queen and brought about the Golden Order. Put the pieces together guys. He is the Shadowbound Beast of Marika, who ended the GEQ and the Godskins...I bet you Marika was the Gloam Eyed Queen and burned the Erdtree, possibly with Messmer's help.
Wait... does Messmer represent the whispering snake that lured Marika away from the teachings of the Dynast King and the Great Tree like the snake in the Garden of Eden? Is that why she even becomes the GEQ in the first place? Is this why the Godskins have snake like genetics and the snake is reviled by the Erdtree? Is Messmer actually Melina's real father?
IDK, but one thing I will say, after hearing Myazaki say there is another meaning in the title I am convinced he is talking about Malaketh. He defeated Marika for burning the Tree, sealed Destined Death, and the Golden Order began. Possibly giving birth to Radagon as Marika's punishment also.
I'm sure you're aware of the whole Greattree/Golden Tree mistranslation thing. What I find strange is, if they were separate trees whose roots were once connected, and Erdtree burials were performed at the Greattree's roots so that the spirits would pass into the Erdtree... Why not just bury them at the actual Erdtree roots? Why incorporate that one extra degree of separation into the ritual?
I'm also confused how the Erdtree could be born in the shadowlands if they were/are a separate, physical place apart from the Lands Between. Maybe it was relocated there as a sapling, or maybe the two lands were once connected or overlapping in some way. I like the theory that the land of shadow is located in the center area of the map that appears as an empty sea to us, but in truth is obscured by the Erdtree somehow- and that if not for Marika's seal we'd be able to see and touch it.
I have one last crackpot idea rolling around in my head and then I'll shut up. The Erdtree seems like the primary light source for the Lands Between, or at the very least has more significance than the sun to the narrative of the game. We know Miquella's plans involved the eclipse (there's a pretty cool parallel to the real world ancient belief that the eclipse would temporarily obscure mortals from the sight of the gods. During an eclipse, the gods could be tricked by replacing a ritual sacrifice in their honor with a different person or even an animal, sparing the original sacrifice). Maybe in Miquella's case the eclipse refers to blocking out or otherwise removing the light of the Erdtree rather than the sun.
Thanks for the great comment @bilbobaggins9167! I honestly don't know what to make of the whole greattree/golden tree translation thing. To me, looking at the Japanese, it seems like the crucible, the greattree and the Erdtree share a pretty ambiguous relationship. I am confident in saying the crucible was an early form of the erdtree, but that's about it 😅
To your second point; did you see my video on this subject regarding Sage's Cave and the candle tree shield? I dunno how much water it will hold in the end but it's a fun one to think about and I too am fond of the idea.
I really like your third point. I actually had a script in the works about Miquella and the eclipse but I put it on ice after I realized EVERYONE is posting videos about Miquella right now. I actually was unaware of those real-world historical parallels, so thanks for bringing that to my attention!
@@ZayftheScholar I actually just found your channel today, so I'm going to go check out that video now
@@Galamoth06 ah thank you! Sorry I wasn't trying to advertise; just thought you might have seen it. Great av btw.
@@ZayftheScholar No no, don't even worry about it, I'm genuinely interested. And thanks lol
You say at 10:30 that the Erdtree didn't have a god inside it. We know of one god that vanished long ago. The god of the dragons. Maybe Miquala wasn't the first to realize gods made good fertilizer
To me, the secret would be related to this kind of "Ouroboros" "O" shape
There are two ways to tackle this subject: (1) analysing what Miyazaki is hiding behind the meaning of Shadow in the title, and (2) deciphering what is exactly being hid in the Erdtree’s creation.
You’ve already explain (2) thoroughly.
But to understand (1), I think, is to understand the nature of Shadowbound beasts. Their sole purpose is to serve the idea of concealment or protection. Blaidd’s purpose is to serve Ranni until she defies him; Maliketh’s sole purpose is to act as Marika’s hidden chest of secrets; Serosh’s sole purpose is to act as Godfrey’s chest of secrets, hiding his true form.
The common thread here is concealment. Miyazaki more or less alludes to the fact that Marika is the reason for the Shadowlands’ state. So let’s eliminate Blaidd and Serosh, and only focus on Maliketh. Maliketh’s sole need was to hide destined death… I think this relationship between Marika and Maliketh is a direct parallel to Marika and the Shadowlands’ relationship - whereby I conclude that the “Shadow that was plucked” upon the Golden Order’s creation is a mutually exclusive event that coincides with the concealment of the Shadowlands.
I think, given these conclusions, the crucible imagery, heretical cardinal sin imagery, that the Shadowlands will explore the history of the power of Death and the Cardinal Sin of the Erdtree. There is a character who is mutually tied to both concepts… the Gloam eyed Queen. *That* is the Shadow of the Erdtree
WAIT LMAOO, GODFREYS CRUSADE I HAD THOUGHT THE COLOSSEUM FIGHTS AND JARS WAS USED TO WATER THE ERDTREE
i had always thought the erdtree was grown that way
You could be right! All speculation at the end of the day.
Makes you wonder…. Maybe miquella was not truly providing refuge to all creatures who did not have grace (misbegotten, albanaurics, etc). MAYBE he was amassing the necessary amount of sacrifices needed to make the tree fully flourish.
This would mean he had the knowledge that THATS what is needed for a new erdtree to be formed. Meaning he knew the already present erdtree needed that sacrifice, and where does miquella go after the haligtree project is disrupted? To the land of shadows. The place were we are speculating marika did the same thing to bring forth the erdtree.
Someone else posted a very similar idea in the comments and it mad me sad 😞
I'm still team Miquella is a good boy.
I might be reaching here, but what if messmer was the demigod who was put in the erdtree in order for the erdtree to become what it is now and in doing this he was able to go to the shadow land and the same thing happened to miquella
Mirror world similar to an alternate timeline? Where Marika fails to establish the golden order and the world burns under her oppositions
The Empyreans also have shadows.
Someone else just brought this up and it makes sense that those shadows would be connected too. Not sure why I didn't think of that!
Crazy theory but what if that body that queen Marika is pulling those gold strands from, in the dlc story trailer, is the original body of the fell god that the fire giants used to worship ? 👀👀🤷🏾♂️
Here are some ideas ro consider.
What is the Lands Between...between? Fitting with your narrative it would be life and death. The shadowed lands being the realm of the dead where the miraculous happen and the lands outside the Lands Between being the lands of the living where things somewhat more mundane. Where even magic has rules it must follow, thus leafing to those who study it. The Lands Between are the portal between the two. And what connects them? The great tree who so prominantly dominants the landscape. We know there have even been multiple such trees, with the Erdtree being the most recent that was, to all appearances, grafted directly onto the previous one.
Why was Marika so adamant about destroying all traces of the previous culture? Why go to war with basically everyone? Unless it involves why she became the new goddess and representative of the Tree? Despite all her powers and titles she may have been something of a fraud. Both her and her tree. Instead of planting a whole new and vibrant tree she seemingly grafted unto the wounded previous tree a whole different type of tree. Why? I think this goes back to wlher fight with the Gloam Eyed Queen. The Gloam Eyed Queen, despite ruling over a falling empire, was legitimate as a goddess and had a connection to the shadowed world. By stiking down the Gloam Eyed Queen Marika not only took down a rival for power but the only other person who could get in touch with the shadowed realm. Thus allowing Marika to completely cut off the realm where the greatest threat to her could come from. She may have never been meant to become a goddess but a sacrifice to heal the previous tree. But then she turned the tables and took it all for herself. After all in such a run down state the GEQ probably was not all that superior to Marika and certainly may have not been expecting betrayal from the person sent to fix everything. Thus an imposter queen takes the throne and immediately begins wiping out anyone who could have any knowledge that might point to Marika being an usurper.
Another thing to question is...why are so many people in the Lands Between not really human looking? They look kinda like something that is mimicking humanity. If they really are people not of human origin and were just made as servants to the gods that wouldn't unsettle the natives...then the strange appearance and birth cycle makes sense. That whatever raw materials were used these peoples we see on our journey are not in fact human but some kind of construct manufactured to serve the divine forces. This even explains what Tarnished are. They are people with a strong human heritage and thus could be returned to human lands once rhey were not useful. So only keeping the construct peoples whom owe their entire life and livelyhood to the Erdtree.
All really good points to consider. Thank you for writing up such a detailed post!
But on the tablette from siofra and ainsel but blossoming thing before becoming a tree kind of looking like a snake symbole like the things of pharmacy, it does have a link with raicard?,.,
I think possibly the way of creating more Erdtree’s is the consumption of the sap that comes from an Erdtree. As we can see the sap being collected from the “Shadow Tree” or to me the First Erdtree, and the man we also see in the dlc trailer consumed this sap which is now growing into a tree though-out his body. It might also explain what the worm faces are and their connection to sap; people who have consumed the sap of the Erdtree’s but now that the Erdtree’s are dying and infested with deathroot instead of becoming Erdtree’s they become infested with the death blight within the sap.
I think that's a very solid idea; thank you for taking the time to share @drier_cola! I'm still not sure what to make of the sap as it honestly isn't mentioned very much in the in game descriptions but I like your ideas!
@@ZayftheScholar Something I also just realized is that there’s an enemy design that was posted by FromSoft that wasn’t featured in the trailer but is a part of the dlc, that looks to be connected to the sap of the shadow tree as it’s head is full of amber, and interestingly it’s design is very reminiscent of the worm faces
ah are you talking about that almost alien looking guy standing in what looks like a swamp? I did find his design really intriguing. Reminds me more of bloodborne than anything we face in Elden Ring.
@@ZayftheScholar hey, regarding sap collection in the game’s descriptions:
*Amber Medallion*
“The Erdtree's old sap becomes amber, treasured as the most precious of jewels in the age of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord.
A primordial life energy resides inside.”
Perhaps the sap that’s being collected at the tower is the same sap of the crucible that is being referred to in this descriptio? It would explain the Amber-like visuals in the leaking erdtree
I love how hard-core elden rings fans are❤ glad to be one of them.😊
hell yeah man!
wait, if im not bat shit insane then, could the land of shadow and lands between be the 2 sides of the same coin? And the shadow tree is like the opposite facing part of the erdtree or simply the roots of the erdtree?
You kept repeating "the man in yellow" and all I can think about is The Yellow King and Fin du Monde.
Is it possible Erdtree burial causes the death of your physical form only? Would explain the spirit summons.
the three ashes you used as examples of erdtree burials seem strange to me, I thought ranni told us that all ashes are from spirits who did not return to the erdtree
100% agree. I was thinking the same thing when I was doing the research for this script but I couldn't come to any solid conclusion so I am leaving it for another time for now...Thanks for your insights @cyber5345!
@@ZayftheScholar perhaps the cyclical nature of erdtree burial allows them to return to the erdtree for a time, and then be cast out of its grace at a later point, their ashes no longer able to continue the cycle
Love this analysis, and your deep dive into the Japanese