COMEBACK After Head Gasket Job?? (Honda Civic -Part1)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2022
- This clapped out 2003 Honda Civic has been around the block several times at 280k miles.
But with ever rising gas prices, the owner wants to get more miles out of it.
After a head gasket replacement, the car drove great and the customer picked it up.
However, driving back home over the mountain, the car suddenly lost power and the Check Engine light came on. He brought it right back.
Let's see why this Civic is not running right...did I forget to do something, or is this an unrelated issue?? The pressure is on!
IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
THINK TOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
Enjoy!
Ivan - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![[TH] Esports World Cup : Grand Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sedbKhFYDMo/mqdefault.jpg)
At my shop, the advisors inform customers with vehicles 150-200k+ that there may be issues in the near future that are unrelated to the original complaint, after the original complaint has been corrected. This is a great example where that is the case, wonderful video Ivan!
I agree. I ran a heating and cooling service department and when we worked on a unit (especially an old unit) I trained my guys to be very specific in explaining that the price we charged was for A specific repair (we used repair codes) done that day, and that because of the age/condition of the unit, more frequent repairs could be expected. If the issue was a different failure from the one we worked on (even if it was only a day or two later) we would be charging for the diagnosis, part, and labor to make that NEW repair.
It’s hard enough making a living just doing service calls; you can’t give away your services for free, just because the customer CHOOSES to try to keep an old or worn out product in operation!
That's exactly as it should be. However, there are shops that don't (or can't) do the diagnostic work and swap out parts that don't fix the initial complaint. I just had this happen. Who should pay for the $350 misdiagnosis and unecessary part? The actual repair part was $35 and about 30 min labor.
I have done work on my own cars, last was a cam and lifters on a hemi. Put it all back together and the front 02 sensor was ☠️ dead. Worked fine before the job. No damage to the sensor that I could see. New sensor and good to go.
Stuff breaks. Just because you worked on something doesn’t mean you are warranting the entire job.
Customers should expect problems with high mileage cars but I understand why you have to remind them.
The thing is you need to avoid tunnel vision. If there is another problem you should say so. Not ignore it and leave the customer stranded AGAIN. That's why Ivan's through testing is so critical. It's not about if it's your fault, it's about doing your due diligence. Setting expectations up front and clear communication. All of which Ivan has done here. It's easier to trust someone who acts like they care about doing a good job.
Hey Ivan, this is an older car so o2 sensor reading is apparently internally represented as an 8bit value. Measuring in 0.005v increments. So 1.275v is in reality 255 * 0.005, the max value it can store. It's not a true voltage reading.
Very cool to see the crazy data on those oxygen sensors alongside the trims. Has heavy mileage but if coolant has been part of the combustion cycle for any length of time that has probably finished them off 😁
Very good point!
This person has some serious love for this old Civic, pouring so much money into it, omg. Good for them to be keeping it from going to the junkyard.
Off topic, just venting about another shop. I get a call 2 weeks ago to look at a 1978 stingray. The car had multiple issues with a few aftermarket components (alarm,tracker,radio with the big speakers but the engine and tranny was originally.) When I showed at the shop it was impressive(first time customer, actually I never even worked in that area). He had this huge shop with all the latest tools and gadgets. His snap on diag cart was amazing. It had the huge touch screen with the new autel and zues sitting on top. He finally comes out and I get a bad feeling about the guy just by the tone he used. He starts by saying "I could of found the problem but I don't have the time". I look at the car and it's ripped apart. The dash is just laying there everything's hanging on by its harness. Then one of his mechanics walked by and said "I see he's got yet another guy trying to fix this beast". You can tell if a shops calling because they're busy which does happen or they hit a dead end by just looking at the car. I'm alittle over a hr in my diag and have a good ideal whats going on. I asked the shop owner if he knows if anyone was messing around or depining the main firewall plug. He's exacted words was "I don't f#cking know maybe, just f#cking fix it. I'm paying you because I don't have the time or i would do it myself". I was about to pack up and leave but I only had about 15mins left. When the shop owner did the engine and tranny rebuild he plugged the firewall plug (the male side) in upside down. It sounds simple but it wasn't that easy to find because usaully this doesn't happen. I told my self I would never do work again for this guy. The other day my wife hands me my list of diags for the day not noticing that shops on there. I only realized it when I was about 5 mins away so I go in.This time its a 1986 nissan 300zx with 3 issues. I walk in and noticed his tone seemed better. I thought maybe something bad happened causing the slight anger in his tone that day(a family member died, his wife/girlfriend split or something). I found 2 of the 3 problems but the 3rd one I needed a little more info, basically when did the problem occur. I go to ask the shop owner about the history and I got "look I don't have the time to help you, I could figure it out myself but I'm paying you to do it so just f#cking fix it. I don't care what you do or how its done, find it and fix it.". I packed my stuff up without saying a word and left. The funny part is he said he wanted to replace the hvac head until and resistor because one of the problems was the hvac didn't work. He just wanted a second opinion. The issue was a connector by the fuse box not the unit or anything else. He had this really aggressive tone. Its the craziest thing because it felt like any wrong word used and this guys ready to fight. Hes called me 3 times and even offered a extra 50$ to finish the diag. I just don't want that stress. God forbid we end up fist fighting. I've been doing diagnostic work for other shops and DIYers/customers for the past 4 years and never had anything like this happen.
Wow. Good thing you fired that asshole customer!
yup! you did RIGHT!
I think the term "go shit in your hat" doesn't get used enough. A term specially made for scum bags like that.
Hi Ivan. Please keep pumping out the data and commentary. Love the sunnies.
As a DIYer I have watched your video's for quite some time, always appreciate your logical systematic process to diagnose issues, how you take pride in your work and exhibit professionalism that is at the highest level. If I lived in Pennsylvania I could retire from being a DIYer.
thanks for the educational video's.
lol. When you showed the underhood shot of the engine, I was like "yeah, it's a 4 banger... they shake and vibrate a fair bit - but not that much!" Nice diag, and really shows the need to graph & scope these kind of things!
Older cars always have some issues. Repair one thing one day and another shows up the next. Still cheaper than a new car. Great video!!
This will be good Ivan. I can't recall a comeback being the same as the original issue yet. Will see how it goes.
Crazy stuff. Thanks Ivan!
Ivan, the Customer may want to get some more life out of car but reality might be creeping in. Can't wait to see what kinds of magic you perform. Hey, thanks for including Pico waveforms. I'll be looking at those a bit later. Thanks for Sharing!
Keith will love those captures!!
Great work Ivan!
The O2 sensors are most likely damaged by the coolant steam, from the head gasket issue.
Coolant leak into combustion cycle would only serve to cool down the exhaust stream and sensors. Possibly it was damaged by contaminates from coolant but I would suspect simply old age.
I feel for ya same happened to me, All sensors on or near cyl head now get replaced after a overheat/head job, O2's will be questionable depending on how long the customer was using glycol for fuel additive
High mileage cars = job security. Good stuff Ivan.
I've been down this road with my son's 2002 Civic (same platform & motor). After replacing the camshaft position sensor *and* the pigtail to the wiring harness, it would still malfunction. After many months of intermittent failure, this got to the point where we could drive it from a cold start on a particular route, and it would reliably fail within about a 1 mile stretch. At that point I concluded that it was a temperature related problem with either the engine wiring harness, or the ECU. Since the wiring harness was cheaper ($300 for OEM), we replaced that. Fortunately, it fixed it. As an added bonus, the new wiring harness has nice fresh connectors.
That stft was freaking crazy! Never seen that before
That’s some fancy Etch-a-Sketch you have there. Mine can only draw one line at a time.
Crazy that youtube doesn't recommend the second part to this video, 95% of the time they do recommend the second part
Very nice. At 280k not difficult at all to believe the oxygen sensors are toast. Along with who knows what else
Yeah. This guy is in for a long term replacement of every sensor and sensor associated part. Just the life cycle of a vehicle. Still cheaper than a new car.
@@phprofYT yes. If those are original oxygen sensors they lasted a very long time and really should have been replaced sooner.
In my experience if one molecule of coolant touches an O2 sensor it will act like that and fail.
I now remove the up stream sensor(s) whenever removing cylinder heads to eliminate any possibility of coolant contacting the sensor. Never had a problem with down stream sensors yet.
Great Job as always Ivan, Keep up the good work !
likely there was silicone sealants used in the coolant system, possibly also flushing chemicals and water pump lubricants. small amounts of silicones = O2 sensor death.
I used to do a lot of head gaskets on Ford 3.8 V-6 engine's, it was very common to have to replace the upstream O2s after they had been exposed to coolent.
car has high milage blow head gasket and get a waranty wow .on old part.but it strange 2 problem humm they must be wiring problem.but i know it good hand to take care of it.great video thanks
I had an old car once. 1986 Reliant K. Was my Grandfathers and bought it from my Aunt after he passed away. It sat a lot. I drove a lot. Car starting having a lot of problems. Put in a timing belt. Then a head gasket. Then breaks. Later the throttle body starting messing up. It did manage to pass Ohio emissions after I moved back from VA.
Great video. Thank you
We have that exact same car in our house. Even the same color. It's got 218K miles. It belonged to my sister, but we sold it to a kid who is working in the US for a year and living with my family. I'm becoming familiar with this car. Had to replace the valve cover gasket because there was oil in the spark plug tubes. Today we are replacing a window regulator that suddenly failed yesterday. Then this video shows up on my feed. I have a feeling I'm gonna be doing more work on this car. I made sure the kid bought a AAA membership. 😄
Cool video as always! I own two 7th gen Civics (an 04 and an 05) and cam/crank sensors are one of the more common failures, I have had to replace a few over the years. I have read the new OEM sensors are updated and better though. The good thing is a loss of cam/crank signal won't leave you stranded on these cars as the ECU has a failsafe limp mode so it can run without one or the other. Also, 221 degrees coolant temp seems pretty high. I have been using a Scangauge for many years and mine always runs at 182-188 degrees while driving and no more than 207 degrees while idling, which is the temp the fans turn on at. If it is running hotter than it should for whatever reason, of course that could contribute to head gasket failures. I would check the cooling system just to be safe if you haven't already just to help ensure you don't have another comeback. Anyways, looking forward to part 2!
I wish my 95 Dodge Stealth rt (3000gt SL) was like that 😅 im currently having a no spark and injector pulse problem but getting fuel at the fuel rail so i know Fuel pump is working. Pretty sure its a crank/cam position sensor problem
I have the same make and model and I agree with you having observed the same coolant temps. Only recently did I have to change the aftermarket thermostat that was stuck closed and I had temps of over 230 and air (steam?) pockets developed and I would have intermittent heat in the cabin. Putting in an OEM thermostat fixed the problem and I would see 190 as typical when cruising. I have 3 Hondas and have never seen coolant temps as high as Ivan is seeing.
@@miket1322 I agree. The OEM thermostats are expensive, but worth every penny. From my experience, they are better at holding a consistent temperature than the aftermarket ones I tried and much likely to fail. I have never personally seen an OEM Honda thermostat fail, I just replaced it after 200K+ miles as preventative maintenance.
@@averyalexander2303 The OEM thermostat opens at around 170 and this gives you around 190. There are aftermarket ones that open at 195 and this I would expect to give around the 220 that Ivan observed but I would not assume this to be the case. 220 just seems too high a temp. Honda chose a thermostat that opens at 170 for a reason. And as you stated, the OEM ones are worth every penny for the reasons that you stated and also from my observation, they fail open, which of course is the desired option.
Ivan Brother when I do a Head Gasket Job I always change the O2 sensors because you know as well as this Old Retired Tech they get Contaminated with Coolant when a head gasket starts leaking and should be changed because only God Know when it started throwing coolant down the exhaust. Just add them to this type of job.
I had a situation where the O2 went crazy after a hydraulic condition from a melted upper intake. Replaced the O2 sensors. Denso.
You’re one brave soul performing engine work on an engine near 300k and that the 1.7 had issues with porous blocks would be of concern to say the least.
Ivan is the best. But comment readers, do realize that if you will push a vehicle to 280,000 miles, you need to be an “Ivan” yourself. Everything and anything is subject to die at that mileage.
Ivan I feel your pain. I now burn sage when working on older cars and keep an exorcist on standby. I keep telling you they are possessed. 🤣🤣🤣
High mileage vehicles often have unrelated issues after everything being disturbed, even if you didn't touch it impact tools shake everything pretty good
Hi Ivan. I have the 2002 version of this Civic, same engine. There is no bias voltage on the O2 sensors. If you unplug them, you get 1.275 V. I just went outside to prove this to myself. So if you have a bad pin or break, you will see this voltage. I had the same issue with my 96 Civic and sometimes the voltage would spike to 4 V and then it would hesitate like crazy as the injectors would cut (when above a certain rpm). So check the connectors. I was missing the plastic insert in the connector and this seemed to cause the intermittent problem. Also, one person commented if the sensors could be mixed up. With the factory harness, impossible to connect rear to front and vice versa. So not sure what is going on there.
Ha, I got a Honda commercial after this.
Great clip Ivan , suspenseful !! cam sens + both O2 sensors at the same time ????? bed ground/wiring / pcm connector . I'll wager "green boogers are your problem lady "
If those 02 sensors are original factory, they are likely getting lazy just like the cam sensor shows with that "radius" ramp vs. square wave. Considering the miles on this engine, my guess is the sensors are weak plus contaminated a tad from previous mechanical issues. Since the exhaust contamination has been corrected, I'd surely consider two O2 sensors and the cam sensor at the same time. Then, spend the left over time on road testing. You just have to consider those 4 cylinder engines are working hard all the time due to their smaller displacement vs. the larger engines. My guess on the cam sensor issue is ambient temperatures. Its no longer able to withstand those temps as it used to as the block and head radiates the heat up those hills. Take that car to Texas and the problem would likely be more often.
IVAN YOUR A GENIOUS
Odd! Ivan, you are a magnet for weird problems :-) Those rounded leading edges on the cam sensor signal don't look very healthy. Wonder if the new sensor cures that (could it be the electronics deteriorating the signal?). Once again, curious to know what the next chapter brings :-)
I bought a 2005 special edition ex Civic out of Chicago a few years ago with the same problem with the Crankshaft Position sensor it only had 154,000 miles on it, We still daily drive this Car with almost 300,000 miles on it, I ended up doing the head gasket over myself because if the shit job someone else did and also had to install a new plug and crankshaft position sensor it would always start but after heat soaking it would randomly not restart. It's been a very dependable car since this sensor problem was taken car of, I guess I'm just lucky no other sensor caused a problem yet, So we daily drive two 1.7l Honda's still and a new 2020 with the K20C2 2l engine. You'll figure this out I'm sure of it. YES IT'S A LITTLE FRUSTRATING AT FIRST 🤓👍.
When my supercharger on my mustang sprang a coolant leak, it did something to my 02 sensors and I had to replace them. I have a water to air intercooler located at the intake manifold location. I think I paid $70 a pop for them at the local Ford dealer.
No aftermarket garbage...just ordered a Beck Arnley Crankshaft position sensor for my Honda, now having second thoughts. Honda part retailed for $125. aftermarket about $50. of course I want it to function properly, got a 4 year warranty through Amazon 🙏🏼
there are some pretty sharp contributors on this channel...🤯
I am wondering if the bad head gasket let antifreeze into the combustion chambers and that that took out the O sensors? Mike
I would have gone ntk on the O2 sensors since they are OEM and hit up the junkyard for the cam sensor.
I'd hit up the junkyard for the 02 sensors but those are usually gone when they cut the cats out.
Wow I don’t think I’ve ever seen fuel trims act like that crazy.
Ivan says: "It wasn't my fault." While that is true, many, if not most customers won't see it that way. "You touch it, you own it".
that headgasket fallier was probably masking that pre- existing other faults. in some strange way, after that mayor repair, that engine may be operating at a higher efficiency, that the old worn out sensors can keep up.
ive seen this situation many times, when you do major work on a car, it wont let you go until it gets what it wants to run right,, like fixing one thing affects something else. its weird for sure.
One other person commented about the coolant temperature of 221 degrees. It's concerning to me as well. The OE thermostat is rated for 170 degrees, and I rarely see the coolant temperature exceed 210 degrees on such units. Please be sure the thermostat is functioning properly, so it doesn't overheat the engine again. It was mentioned that stop-leak was used, so that could be another factor.
Yeah that thing is running waay too hot
Agree. The max should be 212 before the fans kick on 221 is basically a start of overheating
my first thoughts, maybe clogged cat/s and for sure bad O2's after all the contamination. high mileage, possible fuel starvation too.
Seeing how there’s multiple codes for voltages being pulled to 5v ref and or being pulled to ground, seems like the ECU is taking a dump or missing some powers or grounds intermittently
The slow rising edge on the position sensor pulses seems to me to be a missing pull up resistor, so that would be actually an ECU fault. Stuck signal could be the sensor fault, but if the pull up resistor would be a question, it moving around and shorting out to the 5V could be the cause too.
And regarding the O2 sensors: There I see two very strange thengs: First is the true zero volt signal and mainly the way how the voltage from one sensor disappears exactly at the same instant when the other comes back to life and vice versa. Normally there would be no reason for any damage of two rather slow independent sensors to be so well synchronized. To me it looks like some wiring problem (both being response of something else turning on or off due to a short circuit or missing common ground or so), or again an ECU problem (some latchup in the cpu chip reading these signals,...).
Yeah, I have to wonder if Part 2 digs into some wiring. Yes, the engine is old, but multiple problems makes me wonder about power and grounds.
ECU board is potted so unlikely regarding the intermittently shorting resistor hypothesis
board is probably corroded and shorting across random things. very likely there's failed electrolytic corrosive/conductive juice all over the place.
as for the sensor, it could be failing capacitors within it's circuitry too. not sure of the sensor design, but I am sure of every type of capacitor known fails in odd ways with age vibration and moisture/chemical ingress
Can you explain how you hook up the scope and the difference in the wave forms
Ivan both sensors and CMP sensor or just both O2 sensors? Next video should be interesting. Thanks for sharing 😊
On my TT Pros, I don’t get the ODBII menu selection when used on early ‘00 - ‘05 ish Hondas.
I vote not your fault. If I was the owner I would not be surprised or have high expectations with a car with that many miles on it.
Yeah agree. Head gasket job at that many miles, anybody else would have sold an engine
Good morning senor ivan.
If steam from the coolant head gasket leak was a longer term issue, O2 sensor failure would be somewhat plausible as they have been steam soaked for a while.
Running a little coolant thru the exhaust kills the oxygen sensor ,I’ve had to replace a few after head gasket jobs.
Wow. You broke their car lol. Haha jk! But that is weird on the o2 going wonky. Never seen this before. I wondered how you charge for the diag amd repair if the cam sensor wasn't your fault and same for the o2? Im curious how you will write it up the bill? Haha. Great to see ypu find the fault in the scope and scan tool!! Looking forward to part 2 and the fix! Was there any video of the head job?
I find it happens a lot after head gasket failure the O2 sensors end up misreading or failing all together
Antifreeze destroys the oxygen sensor have seen it before.
If during the head gasket failing problem coolant most likely took out the O2 sensors. Maybe
I just replaced a head gasket and radiator for my customers High mileage Tacoma that tried to repair himself with a quart of Blue Devil sealer. He also ruined both oxygen sensors and the catalytic converter. I was able to save the heater core.
Ivan, How much did you charge for the head gasket? If I ever need a head gasket done, I'd come to you in a heartbeat. You are probably only one of two people I'd trust for a job like that. The other person is Eric O. from South Main Auto haha.
I hope you noticed the scale for the fuel trims differs from 1.01 to .99. Once it goes below .99, as the value goes “down” to .98 the actual graph increases. The positive and negative values on the trim display in different manners. The huge drop from 1.01 to .99 isn’t really a fuel trim drop massive drop. Just a scale switch.
I noticed that too!
(i'm 14 mins in).. With it being two different things losing signal like that--- I wonder if it's not just the connector at the PCM itself? That's something that both the cam sensor and O2 censor have in common right? They both have to connect to the PCM--- I would definitely pull that main plug off of the PCM and check/ clean all the connections, and check pin fitment-- Hopefully it's not an internal issue with the PCM-- just a thought.
Ivan. would it be possible for you to explain O2 sensors and fuel trims please and there values. good and bad??? Please.. Thank you in advance. Kev U.K.
Do the O2 sensors, the cam sensor, or the PCM share a ground connection?
Any chance the sensor 1 and sensor 2 connectors could have been accidentally switched? Sometimes they are near each other and the connectors are the same. Saw it once on a car that had just had a head gasket done. Crazy fuel trim numbers.
those ones can't be switched. there's keyed slots that won't line up
I wonder if burning all of that coolant could contribute to the sensors going out. It could be that the car is cursed and everytime you fix it something else goes bad.
A quick search turned up several answers as "yes", coolant can damage oxygen sensors. In particular long exposures. Heat can be an issue as well. If he is driving that PA steep roads all the time and was getting some coolant in the exhaust and the fuel mixture was off a bit along with just old sensors, it was just a matter of time.
Absolutely it's a car with 280k miles of course things are going to break and wear out and she's 03 she's nearly as old as myself.
@@phprofYT With the D17, When the head gasket goes, the exhaust goes into the water jacket, which doesnt burn the coolant, it just pushes it out of the reservoir. So the coolant never reaches the 02 sensors. The coolant doesnt mix with the oil either, but these head gaskets are notorious for failing on this engine. But like you said, possibly if the car overheated, its possible it could accelerate the failure of any sensors connected to the block, like the cam sensor.
@@TuneStunnaMusic But if the head gasket was blown between a cylinder and a coolant passage, isn't it likely that on every intake stroke , coolant would be drawn into the cylinder due to the low pressure in the cylinder and the higher pressure in the cooling system ?
@@davidquinn6161 i would think so generally. I have a d17, mine blew, and Im on multiple message boards, and every head gasket always blows in the same way when over heated. Even when the gasket is breached with a hole between the cylinder and the water jacket, the exhaust pressure always wins over low pressure and coolant. And the head sometimes warps. No white smoke. I never knew about this until I got this car. I don’t know exactly why it always works out that way, but I wonder if it was designed as a failsafe so there’s no milkshake when the HG failed.
At 14:03 it went into closed loop and then right back into open loop interesting.
I would still like to know what happened to the second Volvo in the Baltimore trip, was it a carboned up oil trap?
After I did my engine rebuild in my 2002 Civic, I was thirty miles in a trip and the cam signal dropped out. Replaced the sensor and no problems since.
I should also add it was rebuilt because of the head gasket.
The heat does something internal I think.
Ivan, you mentioned that the odd O2 sensor readings started when you were coming back down hill from the climb up that triggered the cam sensor to go bonkers. Let me know if I'm right about this idea please. I think on downhill runs the ECM shuts off gas to the engine. That would make O2 readings useless, so they COULD be shut down or ignored also. That could mean that you get zero.O2 readings downhill and normal ones when the engine is getting gas. Check it out, please.
Ivan, its not your fault that the sensors are playing up.
I did wonder if all that engine shaking was provoking a bad connection.
My Lexus ES300 (1995) 1MZ-FE had CMP problems and the dealership replaced the timing belt (?) This was before I got the car at 47K miles.. I now check the oil before driving it.. The oil in the CMP The sensor allows engine oil to pass thru to the electrical connection and stalls.. Is this a common problem on this engine with the CMP design (lack of) YES OEM sensors -- last two anyway.....
Ivan is such a fabulous mechanic. A true mechanical investigator with his computer diagnostics. It's like watching a medical e.k.g. on a patient in a hospital. My mechanic in New Jersey barely says hello to me when spending hundreds of dollars feeding his parts cannon habit. Yes, I know: I gotta find me a new mechanic....
I know he's a good troubleshooter. That's not the point. Chances are that something else will break. Something that is more expensive. When a car with that mileage starts to go, it's becomes a money pit. You'll never get the money back that you put into maintaining it. When your monthly repair bills match a monthly payment on a new car, it's time for a new car.
as a computer programmer i never change anthing until u can reproduce it everytime.
what i learned after30+ years is that often 2 or more problem exists at same time and unrelated. so dont assume anything.
same with old people with their aches and pains.
Ivan, I might also add that that the car has now traveled 3/4 of the way to the moon. Notwithstanding that it is a Honda, I am surprised that any of the original parts still work!
Ahem, this Civic already has more miles on it than the average distance to the moon. You must've been thinking in kilometers Phil.
@@thx1138guy At that is how i lost my job at NASA after my first shot at Mars.
when you open up an engine and get it sealed up better it starts puting stress on things that they havent seen in a long time. everything runs differently. what was normal now isnt. things will break. also everything that was removed is now been moved. electrical issues show up unexpectedly. might want to test your grounds
Wow, look at that short term fuel trim chart. Seems like the scan tool isn't treating that as a number, but as an enumeration, ordered by first appearance? That would surely confuse the hell out of some people ;)
My 03 Matrix has a lazy O2 Sensor. I got a new one but haven't replaced it yet. Has P0420 code. My buddy sold me the car and prior to that, he took it to the dealership an they quoted him $1100 for a new cat whcih he declined. Part of me wants to take it to the dealership and make them sign a form that I owe nothing if replacing the cat doesn't fix the issue.. or would they never do that? One thing I never understood is why a customer still has to pay even if a dealer or shop replaces a part that doesn't fix the problem.
"No Aftermarket Garbage!" truer words have never been spoken!. I drive eurotrash, and while once upon a time aftermarket "OE" stuff was fine, nowdays its hardly better than noname Asia Inc, or any of the 'grab bag' repackagers (looking at you, WorldPac, Meyle, Uro, etcetc).
Would be interesting to see how O2 sensors respond to propane or choke cleaner. With no infrared or artificial enrichment, we are betting the farm on 100% scanner data.
The amount of diagnostic work you do is so impressive. I wish I could find a local shop that focused on finding the issue instead of trying to fix it the fastest way by throwing a few parts at it based on what they've seen.
Good luck finding a shop that doesn't throw parts at a problem. Even the dealerships are doing the same thing. An Automotive Engineer confirmed this. It's sad, expensive, but it's reality.
@@davidhall3747 The real problem is finding the balance. IMO Ivan has gotten lost in the forest being the NO PARTS REQUIRED guy instead of doing what REALLY needs to be done---give the customer the bad news. Your vehicle has extremely high mileage. I strongly recommend you replace X/Y/Z/Q & R. if you want trouble free transportation. Especially when doing something like a head gasket. Does it still have original radiator? Heater hoses? Sometimes a cheap car isn't all that cheap. Be 100% honest and a bit short with the customer. You will be doing them a favor.
@@gailtaylor1636 Can't argue with your comment. Some customers are feeling they are being Nickel and Dimed.
@@davidhall3747 Some people have unrealistic expectations of what a vehicle can do. Every FWD car that is beside me at a light seems to think they are Erica Enders. Then scream bloody murder when the transmission dies, they need engine mounts or axles. At @250K+ miles! Cars are better than they've ever been. Grew up at fathers car lot. Anything over 110K miles got junked if trans went out. Now we spend $5K on a trans & $10K on an engine when vehicle has 300K miles.. Because another car is $35K +. If you gonna play ya gots to pay!
@@gailtaylor1636 I understand.
Most people can't afford to live the lifestyle they envy. I'm semi retired now and am a former business owner. The high cost of living is stressing a lot of people out. That's not my problem.
Very interesting! Do you think the blown head gasket or coolant contamination caused the oxygen sensor damage? And for the cam sensor is it possible the cam sensor was working harder with the previous pin fitment faulty crank signal causing premature failure?
I think 280k miles was just too much for for the original sensors haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yep sounds about right. Oem part install will last till 560k then!
I've seen it before where the head gasket goes bad it was bad runs a bunch of coolant down the exhaust and screws up the sensors.
I agree with Terry down below I've also had issues where lots of coolant enter the exhaust system had also killed the O2 sensors
Classic, that engine and every thing around it was cooked multiple times by the overheating roller-coaster. Watch out Ivan, that car with that high mileage is a disaster waiting to happen.
Of course this would happen to Ivan
Unfortunately the coolant contamination or just the high mileage for the O2 failure Next the Catalyst will set a code ??!!
Coolant not too great for O2s.
Coolant probably messed up the sensors along with age. No telling how bad the cat is now.
Sometimes a worn out car is just a worn out car. Cats will be the next thing. It's a minefield.
What I have seen when they go to 1.27 Volta is heater bless over and on some vehicles they think it’s real and go so lean they won’t hardly run
The VTEC (Very Tall Engine Coolant) is too short.
Interesting.. What are the odds of the camshaft sensor and both O2 sensors all dying at the same time, when they were all three working fine before that? What is the common denominator of the three--- Hopefully it's just in need of new parts, being such a high mileage car--- but I'm still leaning towards it maybe needing a PCM-- or at least it could be a PCM connector coming unplugged or loose- in the back of my mind. lol... I guess we'll see if it still has issues with the new parts.
I was thinking the same thing. On these cars, it's not rare for the alternator bolts to come loose or break off and fry the ECU from the resulting voltage spikes after the alternator loses its ground through the bolts and bracket. In 271K miles, It has happened to me twice. Once with the original bolts torqued by feel and once again after replacing both alternator bolts with new OEM bolts torqued to spec. The first time that happened my ECU died but the second time it survived, possibly because I ran a ground wire from the alternator case to the chassis after the first incident to ensure the alternator always has a reliable ground even if the bolts failed again.
these spikes are nasty, wonder if they are making the sensor go nuts
I want to add that I have had the pleasure of replacing the cylinder head valves/head gasket/timing belt twice on this car. Bought the car from my boss for $200 as the timing belt broke and it bent the valves. I used the original tensioner bolt and this worked its way out after 20,000 miles and the belt broke again. Honda made a longer bolt for the 03 and up models as this was a known issue in that you could not torque the original bolt without it stripping the threads. I put in a timesert the second time. Ugh! The first time the tensioner spring ate through the backing plate. The "professional" who installed it did not install it properly. But why Honda changed the tensioner design from the super reliable design in the 2000 and earlier models to this design is a mystery to me.
Wait you worked on this exact car?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol!