Floyd Rose Patent Ended And Things Have Changed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2024
- #knowyourgear #podcast #guitarpodcast #geekystuff
Full episode here
th-cam.com/users/liveaxSs0S0K1hM?...
The New Merch is finally here!!!!!!!!!
www.kyg.altacolor.com
You can also get other merch here
www.bonfire.com/store/know-yo...
Check out the Know Your Gear Podcast
iTunes: smarturl.it/KYGitunes
Spotify: smarturl.it/KYG-Spotify
TH-cam: smarturl.it/KYGyoutube
iHeart Radio: smarturl.it/KYGiheartradio
Floyd Rose patent expired in 2003
And nobody has looked back after that.
Not all of them.
@@peevee605 maybe gor original locking bridge
My favourite Floyd rose patent stamping was when a guy made his own 8 string Floyd from 2 Floyd’s chopped and welded together (before Floyd rose offered 8’s). It said “Filed Under Floyd Under Floyd Rose Pats.”
Naw, the best was Eric DeVries and the garbage monstrosities he called guitars, which featured Floyd Rose knockoffs with the stamp "Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you".
The licensed Steinberger trems had holes both sides as standard. I fitted one to a lefty guitar in about 1998. Simple job. Expensive after market part though!
Some Khaler trems, waaaaay back in the '80s, had an insert hole on either side so you could make them left-handed, and they also had an optional fatter palm arm so you could wham it with your palm or wrist/forearm, etc. The Khaler was basically a rectangular, side-agnostic block containing the bridge itself within. Not a bad design. And, no, the Khaler didn't have less sustain, so long as you set it up correctly. People just don't know how to maintain their guitars. Physics is a thing.
I used Khalers for years. As a lefty I had to. I cant use Floyds now cause I'm so used to the Kahler from way back. Now I'm a non trem guy.
They were great on Les Paul's. Easy one finger dives. Smooth. The nut didn't work though. I do love my Floyds,especially on my 83,84 and 85 Kramers . Solid.
@@MarkTurner-vs7uc KAHLER. Good lord.
I put a Kahler on my partscaster back in the 80s. Bought it because it was cheaper and I was a poor student, but it was a much better design than a Floyd. Strings don't need trimming, just a simple channel that holds the ball end. Stable tuning, does most of the Floyd tricks. Hated the locking nut though, it's had a graphite nut for over 30 years.
I can't see how my Kahler infringed Floyd's patent, they're completely different.
6:27 The Shift 2001 (Washburn Wonderbar)unit from the 80's had that exact feature .. left or right usage.
First I want to say I learn so much watching your podcasts. I also like the short topic based versions as I don't always have time to watch the entire thing. After hearing your story of meeting Mr. Floyd Rose, I wonder if you ask him now what he would say.
Its quite scary how much Google is constantly monitoring everything you do. When you mentioned the Korn guitars (which I never knew existed) I opened a new tab, typed Ibanez and the top result was Ibanez K7 and the second was Ibanez K7 for sale and you hadn't even finished your point on those guitars.
Just the words "Ibanez K7" being spoken in the video made Google know thats what I was going to search when I typed Ibanez.
I don't know if it's scary. That's what Google is supposed to do - help you get to what you're searching for faster. It didn't monitor what was "spoken". The entire audio is already converted to text when it's uploaded to TH-cam. Google just did what it was supposed to do - it's job.
@@NickNightingale77 wait til you find out how being edgy and mysterious is super corny.
@@makyeah yeah it did do it's job, but it's still weird to see if know at that moment Ibanez K7 was likely my Google search
And just the amount of information it has on you is pretty worrying
I've spoken about things around my phone, and had suggestions of the very thing that I was talking about pop up as a TH-cam recommendation. These algorithms are scary!
@@DoodlesGaming I think it's hilarious that google knows you're gay even if you don't yet.
I'm by no means an expert, but from the little I've read and watched it seems like BC Rich ran themselves into the ground without Floyd Rose's help.
Again and again. Seems whoever buys the brand has problems.
What…I thought everyone on the intraweb was an expert 🤣
I believe Steinberger also has the option for putting the bar on the left side of the tremolo.
I use and have used every Floyd out there. My favourite is still the original Ibanez LoPro Edge Tremolo (came with Japanese RG's and The JEM 77BFP). It's lighter and looser than most other Floyds. It gives me a finer control on my whammy bar vibratto. Oh and it doesn't have upright tuning screws, which tend to hurt my hands.
the lopro does the best whammy bar flutters out of any trem ever
The Ibanez Teflon rings are a terrible design. Magik arm fixed that problem though.
My experience with Mighty-Mite has been pretty mixed, though I haven't really used any of their parts recently. I did buy a pair of P-bass necks from them, two identical necks ordered together. One has been quite stable, the other shifts more than it should, and that pattern has held true for eight years now, indicating to me that there could be an issue with the aging of their necks or I could always have an off one.
The Steinberger comments remind me of the time in the late 90s that I got a set of D'addario (S) strings, got them home, and found dual ball ended short strings that don't fit other guitars.
I assume the movie rental store (that had strings in the glass case under the counter) ordered them by mistake.
I have a jackson with a f.r special.. I stripped one of the string locks on a saddle (made from zink, replaced all the saddles with ones from a licensed f.r. made from steel.. big improvement in tuning stability and also amazingly have not broken a string in months now (and I hammer on it hard)..
Personally I’d have bought a Gotoh GE1996T. The issue with the special isn’t just the saddles, the knife edges aren’t hardened very well, which can cause tuning instability down the line. The GE1996T is considered to be genuinely comparable with a German OFR. Technically you’re supposed to replace the studs, but the bridge will work on the original posts. The only downside to the Gotoh is that it’s shaped somewhat oddly, so it can be weird to fit on some guitars, so if you do, research the compatibility so you don’t need to route the body.
Funny one of Floyd Rose's biggest driving forces for developing the Floyd Rose bridge was Hendrix's artistio use of the standard tremolo, yet he never developed a left-handed version!!! (then again, maybe he figured lefties like Hendrix don't mind the bar at the top.)
My Caparison Horus has a Schaller and its easily the nicest Floyd Ive seen in my 3 decades of playing.
I have a Kahler Spyder Tremolo on a homemade guitar. The Trem was originally on a Peavey Tracer custom from 1991. Great Trem, though the nut isn't that great.
Just curious, the single cut, dual f hole, wrap tail piece PRS on the left, what year and model is that?
If I was driving with you as a passenger and we got pulled over you'd do the talking part.
My first guitar in 1992 was a 1983 Kramer striker with 1 humbucker and a Floyd rose. Floyd rose was terrible for a new player to deal with.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when Phil’s having these interactions 🤣
Thank you for looking out for us lefty's
"Made for the guys in Korn......The band Korn with a K". Thanks for clarifying which band named Korn you were talking about Phil....
I don't make the bridges, Schaller makes them. Wow
I've heard and read a lot that Schaller bridges are better. This makes more sense now
Ibanez edge, or low pro edge, (made by Gotoh) are nicer than any Floyd Rose.
No they are not!!! That's a preference!!!
No, he's right. They are better. It's scientific.
Eh... Depends on which version. I have an edge 2 on an rg and it's not as loose or easy to use than any of my Floyd's. I think the edge bridges weren't made to be used with string gauges heavier than 9s. Mine only came with 2 or 3 springs so I had to add springs to go up to a basic set of 10s. Doing this made it way harder to dive bomb. However, that's just a preference. If you like you floating trems to be a little harder to manipulate, then yeah maybe the edge system is more for you.
The Original Edge smokes the Floyd anyday.
@@nunyabusiness6691 edge 2 is junk. Made in Korea.
Just purchased a Lefty Floyd Rose tremolo system for a quilted maple EVH Music Man "style" guitar build. As a Lefty player myself, I know all to well, the frustration of wanting a certain part...Or an entire guitar, but the manufacturer doesn't make them. Like Half the Fender/Squier Product line...
I usually buy 90s-00s MIJ guitars and retrofit them.
Usually they require an Original Schaller (1302) bridge with a Floyd Rose R8 nut because the nut shelf is shallower on import guitars. Schaller does not make an R8 nut but the Floyd Rose R8 will usually work with Schaller bridges.
The Original Schaller/1302 is made for smaller, recessed bridge routes. It is smaller than the Schaller Lockmeister, which is nearly identical to the OFR. Original Schaller/1302s are wider and shorter front to back, while OFR/Lockmeisters are narrower and longer front to back. However, OFR offers more finishes than Schaller does like satin chrome.
The benefit of the Schaller Original/1302 over the OFR is replaceable knife edges.
I use both Schallers and OFRs depending upon bridge route.
The Gotoh 1996t seems to be closer to an Ibanez Edge Original in design.
I dislike retrofitting Ibanez guitars because often their designs are proprietary and neither a Schaller, OFR, nor a Gotoh is guaranteed to fit without routing. It depends upon the Ibanez model, year of manufacture, and country of origin. Original Edge bridges are expensive (about $300) and are hard to find on the used market in good shape.
Ultimately, Ibanezes cost more to upgrade and so I don't particularly like them. Their fixed bridge guitars, though, are perfectly fine.
Funny that Floyd wouldn't make a bridge with two holes to move the bar but then he would design something as complex as the FRX.
The funny thing with that trem is that it's also a guy's name but that's more of a bit of trivia when you've only ever used that to refer to a locking nut and bridge
The word "either" is not a synonym for "each".
If you draw a line through the middle of an OFR, it's not designed totally symmetrical, so that's probably why. Would require a totally reversed machine settings for Schaller, which may have been a real pain for them at the time, but probably not these days.
Still using the same nevertune Floyd's I've had for 30 years.
the licensed floyds, i think they call it the edge, i remember it not being too good in my RG's from the early 2000's, they were so unstable i switched to hard tail and never looked back. ive heard they have gotten better, tempted to try the new gio's with the edge on it. i want to try one of the first locking floyd rose without the fine tuners
Don’t ever buy a cheap guitar with a Floyd on it. Just like every other brand, the low end Edges on the Gio and other budget Ibanez lines are a similar weak pot metal to the rest of the low tier licensed floyds. This is one of those few rare guitar things where you genuinely get what you pay for. When it comes to Floyd equipped guitars, to keep on a budget you either buy cheap and replace the bridge (Gotoh 1996T fits most and is great) or you buy expensive so you don’t need to upgrade the bridge. The non fine tuner Floyds are good from what I’ve read, if it’s good enough for Guthrie Govan, it’s good enough for any of us.
Kramer Guitars had exclusive rights for distributing the Floyd Rose in the early 80's. Mr. Rose felt hamstrung by this and had licensed his design around 1986. This is when you saw Schaller in Germany making a licensed FR with literally anyone's company; ESP, Jackson, etc stamped on it. It's been my experience that the only Floyd Rose bridge worth a shit are the actual German Schaller made... the Korean units are garbage.
You gotta try the Japanese units. There’s a reason everyone uses the Gotoh 1996T to replace their pot metal Floyds. The hardened steel is genuinely comparable to the Original German Floyd, of which I have one. The main difference besides logos, saddles, and the upgrades Gotoh built in, is that the brass block is exposed, rather than chromed like my German Floyd’s block. The Original German Floyds are good, but not blow literally all competition out of the water good. Even the old TRS 101 units companies like Yamaha and Jackson used were solid. My 30 year old Pacifica still holds tune as well as my Kramer Focus 3000 (oem bridge is the 80s German stamped Floyd). I can agree though that the vast majority of Floyds in the world are pot metal garbage.
@@watersnortmoment3734 Got a couple of German Schaller LockMeister... literally a real Floyd Rose but just says "LockMeister". Superb German tooling and steel 👍
I had a lefty Floyd around 1999. Not sure who made it.
Phil, please do the Floyd Rose history!
They must've changed their policy at some point as I've got Floyds on two of my lefty guitars.
Wait a minute now. Maybe something got lost in the story, but Phil is referring to the Floyd Rose Speedloader. THAT Floyd Rose was never left handed. In fact Floyd had a real issue just getting the right handed Speedloaders made.The demise came when the company couldn't make the specialized replacement strings.
The original Floyds starting back in the early 80s found on Kramers and manufactured in Germany by Schaller, were readily left handed. There was no need to drill on the other side of the baseplate. BTW, Floyd was right...its not that simple. If you really look at a OFR baseplate, each side is not exactly symmetrical. It CAN be done, but the result is a little wonky and offset. Ironically, the Ibanez Edge series is completely symmetrical. In fact, if you look under the unit, there is recessed starting hole that is a perfect guide for drilling out for a bar on the "left" side.
First Floyd Rose patent expired in 1997 but some related patents potentialy lasted till 2010. There is not only one patent for Floyd Rose bridges. Top mounted Floyd Rose bridge is patented in 2017 for example and should last till 2032.
I'm no expert on Floyd Rose vibratos, but I have learned much over time. One thing I learned recently is that the saddles on Floyds aren't the same, even though they look the same. They're string-specific, meaning that one saddle is designed to support the 6th string, another for the 5th string and so on. The upshot is that one would have to arrange the bridge's saddles to accommodate the handedness of the guitar in which the bridge would be used. I think otherwise the lefty version would be the same as the righty version. What I'm saying is that Floyd was right to say that the process wouldn't be QUITE as simple as you made it out to be. He was also right to try to keep from slapping you down.
Not quite correct. I am actually an expert, having owned a repair & custom shop for nearly 40 years & worked on hundreds of Floyd equipped guitars & sold their parts to my customers. Floyd saddles are not string specific, but they ARE different: there are three heights - two low height for the E strings, two medium height for the B & A strings, and two high height for the G & D. This maintains close to a 12" radius that works on most guitars. You can play around with arranging them to suit your taste, and there are/were even special metal shims to go under saddles if necessary. But in converting to lefty use (I'm a lefty too!) you only need to adjust intonation, the heights work as-is. But you can't "just drill an opposite hole" as Phil alleges. Not on an original-spec Floyd or the new (improved) Schaller models because the plates are hardened steel and require special machining equipment to do what Phil says. OTOH other Floyd models like the "II" and Special use cast zinc base plates that ARE drillable.
@@dannyboy9978 What you said! I've did a steel base plate with a pillar drill, and a squirt of "cooling fluid", for a righty who liked the trem arm at the "top". In an ideal world, where cost is no issue, I would have liked to get it re chromed but the customer was more than happy despite the minor flaking that happened round the drill hole over the next two years!
@@mark.guitar
Cool! Did you use a carbide- tipped or titanium coated bit? Also, are you in the UK? We call 'em drill presses on this side of The Pond. I'd never heard the term "pillar drill" before. ;-)
@@dannyboy9978 I have a set of engineering drills that I bought from a retiring gunsmith. I have no details but I keep on using them and they keep on cutting holes nicely! I am indeed on the other side of the pond and the only drill press that I use is when I try to fit all of those extra bits into my Makita box...
@@mark.guitarHa ha! There's another term I haven't heard: "engineering drills". But whatever they were, good on you for picking them up ;-)
Just something to think about:
You invent an item, put in the R&D, set up production, acquire raw materials, fulfill certain standards to even be allowed on the market, put in large amount of resources to get it to the customer,...
and after 15 years, everybody is allowed to rip off your hard work
But write a song about expletives, draw a turd on photoshop, crayon a smiley on a brick, take a picture of somebody's vomit,...
Call it "art" and nobody is allowed to touch it for 70 years past your joining the choir invisible
I wonder if they'll ever do a 6 string Floyd Rose with a u-bar.
Korn with a K not to be mistaken with Corn. 😅
kinda like pedals with their engines patent
All patents eventually expire.
Floyd's have an offset route for the bar.
Body would have the reverse route first.
Why do patents expire.. like what
i will never find out what the "funny floyd question" was. even at 1.5. speed
bar dont even go into the block
Could argue the companies that are licensed make the superior product mighty mite is probaly better then an American elite but might fall short of a custom
Quality these days is seeing the product in your hands there's some garbage out there for sure 😮
4:00
Eart Guitar while I was helping them back in the early days offered me a Eart JEM style guitar, which came with either a FR Special or a "Overlords of Music type FR Trem system. I still have the guitar in the box, because I'm not a whammy fan. Thanks Phil. 👏👏👏
Much better a two point tremolo with great locking tuners, and a decent nut. So much better than any Floyd, but they were to greed to admit that
I've seen the "Floyd Rose License" stamp on a few bridges that weren't even close. No name hardware trying to attract people or something.
Any locking them had to be licensed under their patent.
@@1donniekak The one I speak of was little more than a copy of the Fender 2 point trem. The only difference was the addition of fine tuners. Not double locking Nothing close to the FR design. Kahler made one that was more of a FR clone, and it had the FR patent stamp. Nothing else in their inventory did.
If you buy an Ibanez for 600 or less, you’ll have to change the trem, period. It’s made of an inferior alloy
This applies to all budget Floyd equipped guitars. Imo they should just use regular 2/6 point trems until the price range where decent Floyds start showing up. Luckily the Gotoh 1996T is made of hardened steel genuinely comparable with a German Floyd and it only costs as much as a Floyd Special.
Wonder if a gotoh trem fits Ibanez rg without modification?
God. I've got an old BC Rich with a TERRIBLE licensed Floyd Rose. Sucker fell out of tune constantly.
Looking of the FR website, it looks like they make lefties trems now !
Also, PRS never fails to disgust me with his misplaced elitism, "there's no such things as lefty pianos", yeah great let the left handed guys who wants to play guitar in the dust, what a rude dude...
floyd lefty not hard to do, no $ there. i'm sure you figured this Phil
Ask him how he feels about screwing everyone who bought his speedloader bridge guitars. Nice guy.
can you elaborate? I can't find anything about a controversy surrounding the speedloader bridge, only that the strings are no longer made.
@@nick_ashley I bought one back in the day. It was impossible to keep it in tune. Floyd Rose trems are known for being difficult to intonate and get in tune. How you 'tuned' the speed loader bridge was the same process as intonation. It was very tedious. The guitars and strings were advertised as set it and forget it. If you needed to change strings. You could easily change the strings and be in tune. Well, the strings like any set of strings had a stretching out process which of course completely threw off the tuning and you needed to do the very tedious process again. It was such a pain to deal with and a product that in concept was great but very poor in execution. I still have the guitar in pieces under my bed. Also, the strings weren't that great either. I remember breaking several strings.
At present I am no longer using “USA” or “Licensed by (company)” parts since the quality of Asian products is good enough for all of my music mod projects. 😎🎸
Blimey.
I bought an 86 Fernandes Revolver FR55 with a body crusher bridge not licensed by Floyd Rose and it’s a complete POS I’m going to upgrade it to a Gotoh at some point.
Floyd Rose “borrowed” most of the design from Leo’s Stratocaster.
or not
@@theuserthatishere over half of it is a direct copy of Leo’s spring loaded floating fulcrum bridge.
You mean ALLOWED to license it. And good riddance. Many people don't know Floyd was a jeweler, which explains why his first design was so terrible.
fender sells their own necks now these days ... and sure it cost a bit more , but i'd much rather a fender neck. becaue fender is damn good at making necks.
Too bad the clerk at the patent office didn't know anything about guitar when Mr. Rose so proudly came down with his middle finger to Leo Fender. Probably would have rejected it for not being user friendly.
so far offbase
Patents are super gay.
I baught the ri ibenez r550 the y say it's a top of the line edge I have no clue if it is or is not but these days company are not sellers there all hustlers the consumer is geting hustled these days thay why we need guys and gals like this vedio to steal us in the right direction.. RocknRollflat5
I love mighty might there good...RocknRollflat5