As a licensed Ham you are specifically protected as you are federally licensed and, pursuant to Homeland Security mandates since 2006 all hams are considered in the Emergency services. The HOA or nosey neighbors can file their questions or concerns with Homeland Security or the FCC but, they may not interfere with your access to the ether and air waves. 73s from KD7CKT Flagstaff
You said it right there an Emergency Service.. So till there is an Emergency you will still have to follow HOA guidelines. My uncle lives in an HOA they now he is a Ham radio Operator Like this gent he has his main antenne hidden in sight as a flag pole and another in the tree and you really have to look to see it. But he has a Hand Crank telescopic tower that he will break out in times of Emergency's the HOA knows what he does. Out of respect when he isn't having to operate he brings it down
@@bloodmoongrizzlythefirst6492 No, you are wrong. first off, when a local town by me made a no house antenna law, around 30 years ago. The FCC shut it down. When people in apartments needed use satellite antenna and apartments said, no antennas. The FCC stepped in again and made a law that covered that. The HOA has no authority in this matter. That is a fact.
Greatly appreciate this video! I've been a ham for over 50 years and I have always had wire dipoles of all kinds. Almost always they have had to be stealth installed! I just retired and moved into a townhome in the Pacific Northwest, and my OCF dipole installed is almost EXACTLY as your video suggests. I used a 4:1 UNUN mounted outside a second floor window. One side, goes up over the gutter can to the roof peak, and lays in the same plastic track shown in your video. The other side goes down the side of the house in a zig-zag manner using small metal eyelets as a guide to thread the insulated 22 gauge wire through. I selected blue insulation, as it matches the house color and is nearly invisible! The roof section is 94 feet long, and the house 'side' section is 40' long. I can tune from 80-6 meters and can reach the world when propagation is good with 100 watts and my ICOM 7300. While it is a compromised antenna, it gets me on the air and is 100% undetectable. Thanks for sharing this so other hams living in restricted communities can have hope that a simple wire dipole will allow them to operate just fine. At 70 years old, I too have had decades of construction experience and can get up on my roof and install this type of antenna, however, I applaud you for suggesting the vast majority of hams should secure the services of a roofer or someone with similar experience, in order to stay safe! Stan - WB5UDI
Really appreciate this feedback and confirmation that sometimes compromised antennas are in fact pretty good. I'll keep the ideas coming; I think there are more ways to get on the air than many realize.
In 2006, I bought a brand new house in an HOA community. 6 months later, I put up a regular TV antenna on the roof so I could get local channels. A month later, I get a letter through the mail telling me I needed to remove the antenna because it was visible from the street. I went online and found a federal law that stated whether I own or rent I have the right to erect an antenna. I made a copy and sent it back to them. 4 months later, they sent me a letter stating I could keep the antenna because they determined it was no longer visible from the street. I never touched it or moved it during this period so their explanation was B.S., eventually I sold my house and moved to another area, my only requirement: NO HOA, took my antenna and still get over 100 channels.
So glad HOAs don’t exist in the northeast of the US. The “HOA keeps the property values up” is the biggest lie that so many believe. HOAs that are well kept lose their value all the time. Because the housing prices are dictated by the market. More desirable the location the higher the prices. The moment a shift in the working landscape happens your property values will drop.
Buy a house in my HOA, you sign an agreement, no antennas of any kind. Don't like it, you don't buy in our HOA. My TV and GMRS antennas are in my attic.
@@jorgeandrade20 We have a lawyer. Any signed legal agreement is binding. No one wants to pay to fight it. Besides, I can hit a Gmrs repeater 22 miles away with my J-pole. Good enough ! 😉 Besides , Federal law doesn't mean shit anymore, look at the southern border ! 😡
Congratulations to you! My wife is my HOA...she doesn’t like antennas and wires. I used house wiring that matched our shingles and laid out a delta loop on a section of roof in a triangle shape that followed the contour of the roof. Running a Balun Designs 4:1 balun, fed from the bottom corner. Surprisingly resonant from 40-10, but yes, I use a tuner (Palstar). You cannot see the antenna unless you are right up on it. Most of all, IT WORKS! Nice job and thanks for showing on the air that a compromise antenna can do just fine! 73, Brett K5WXP
I provide lightning protection to my neighbourhood with stacked yagis on a 50 foot tower. It really works, the 40m yagi on top took a direct strike a few years back. The neighbours were very grateful.
I don’t live in a HOA community, but to keep peace with the neighbors and karens, I installed a random long wire antenna on the inside of my deck railing. No one is the wiser and it works great.
to all you hams that live in an hoa the arrl has a bill in congress that will prohibit any hoa from restricting a modest ham radio antenna from being installed . any hoa that violates the law would be fined heavily. so hope is on the horizon for you
The ARRL pushes for these bills every few years, ever since PRB-1 was passed decades ago. To date they have all been unsuccessful in getting through Congress.
I have a homebrew EFHW around my wood fence at about 5ft off the ground and in a J configuration with two 90 degree turns fed at the short end of the J. It's been up for 4 years and the wispr runs are very similar to your roof antenna. It works just fine and is less noisy than my multi-band vertical. Thanks for the video!
I just learned about rain gutter antennas. I'm really interested in trying that out. But i also wonder about running a perimeter wire, probably with stan-offs, to achieve a longer run, and i guess, essentially make a loop antenna. Also, florida is HOA hell (I grew up in palm beach county. My brothersand Itried to always be as subversive as possible). I think I recently saw some news blurb about a guy who had his artist neighbor paint a mural of his boat, on the fence he keeps his boat behind, due to HOA restrictions. Freakin brilliant!
When I first started out as a Novice operator, I ran a dipole along the outside wall of my apartment building using standoff insulators to keep the wire a few inches away from the wall. The wall was made of that tan brick material, so the copper antenna wire was literally invisible when viewing from the parking lot. I had an apartment on the third floor. Not the best, but hey, anything that will get you on the air is good!
Great video! You come up with some great ideas. Showing that someone can enjoy HF ham radio without living out in the middle of nowhere is a great service to hams. Not all of us can live out in the country and I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to. Keep them coming!
Thanks for the positive feedback. We can get our radios working wherever we live; not sure why so many people say "move". I have no desire, nor need for that matter, to move.
@@randalltom9750 Once I thought the wind was obscured by surrounding houses and showed a lower wind speed and I copped a greater wind speed when cycling, so I raised the height of the anemmometer but nothing changed so I lowered it but the neighbours noticed but they were more amused than anything, so I have a history of adjusting the height of the tube. I wonder what effect all that RF will have on the anemmometer? The little cups might spin faster by the corona discharge.
Tip of the day. When wrapping your coax with tape. Start at the bottom closest to earth. And wind up not down. Adds a drip edge to the tape. How they teach you in school and makes sence 73
Another great video! I wish my roof wasn't so darn steep, I would implement more of your ideas if it was easier for me to walk on! A ridge antenna would be perfect! Thanks for all your work! 73 😎
I have an 80-10 OCF Dipole and it works great. Although I'm not living in a HOA at the moment. When I did have HOA or HOA-like restrictions, I found the end fed half wave and end fed long wire antennas were great for stealth operations because you could easily hide the unun at the feed point, and as you point out, the wire itself is pretty much invisible once it's up in the air. Great video. Thanks!
Great video. I live in a townhouse in Phoenix. Flat roof, so no ridge. I don't oun the outside of the building, and have a VERY small patio area. I do have a metal cap around the building that I may be able to use for a radiating element if I can hide the feed line. They had to cut down the 2 trees that were around the condo because of disease. Any outside changes have to go before an architectural board. Any ideas would also be helpful. I'm currently looking into a flagpole antenna Hopefully around 30 feet tall on my patio area. 73's KG7COA.
OMG thank you for this!!! This has been a problem for years- you just saved half the Ham’s out there who sadly leave the hobby because of these HOA probs.
The FCC has rules that will shut down HOA regulations concerning this. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
I refuse to comply with the HOA's demands to take down my ham radio antenna, as my property is not part of the HOA zone. I had to take them to court, but I won my case against the HOA. It's unbelievable that there is an HOA zone across the street from where I live. My home was constructed in the early 2000s. Have a nice day and God Bless America!!! 😎🇺🇸
The FCC has rules that will shut down HOA regulations concerning this. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Many HOAs are managed by complete idiots who refuse to take the time to actually read the HOA rules or know the HOA boundaries. The first HOA I lived in was that way. People sought staff positions on the HOA so that they could control the neighborhood, but they didn't even take the time to actually read the HOA by-laws. Most of the enacted by-laws were unenforceable because they were not created in compliance with the HOA rules.
the QRM is probably from those little switchmode powersupplys that come with phones and internet routers. usually like 10 snap on ferrites on each cable of these powersuplys reduces the QRM already a significant amount. an iron box around these powersupplys and then grounding the iron box helps too but that is some more effort than simply putting on snapp on ferrites. you have TALL trees on your property as seen in 3:34 , a 1/4 wavelenght copperwire on one those trees would be practically invisible and work very well specially for DX.
Yep, those trees.... All the trees in my back yard belong to neighbors. So wish they were mine, cause your spot on; they'd make a great mast for a wire antenna.
Thanks for the support. I picked the self adhering tape on Amazon; it does not have adhesive. You stretch it and then it sticks to itself. amzn.to/4bLnn9p
Back in the 70’s my dad and uncle put a dipole antenna inside the roof trusses of our house for the base station CB radio my brother got for Christmas. They even dropped the connection to an electric box with a connector through a switch plate, in the wall in my brother’s room. I’m guessing it’s still in the roof there.
I have a very tall oak partially overhanging the house. I use it for elevation to hang a recieve-only super scanner multi-band in a camouflaged PVC enclosure with a center-fed dipole hung under it (48 ft per side) for pulling in far-away AM 560 and 580kHz broadcasts. Works great, and no one except my mother-in-law even noticed it, much less complained...yet.
Trees! The best masts of all! The one's you may have seen in my vid are on neighbors or utility property.... I can dream, or plant one now and get the mast growing!
My SIL lives in an HOA condo. She has no AC. Her front door faces WEST so she gets to enjoy that blistering hot afternoon sun broiling her place. She has a loft with a small window WAY up high against her tall ceiling like maybe it was designed for a small exhaust fan. SIL said yeah the HOA has told her NO FANS IN WINDOWS. So she has cooked all these many years. A few years ago it occurred to me I could build a ductwork out of cardboard leading to a fan mounted out of sight of that window. Paint the inside of the ductwork black and no one would see it from the outside. She said NO. OK, go ahead and cook. I tried to help. !
For a country that loves its freedom I can’t understand why anyone would want to be part of a HOA. So restrictive and if you get people on a power trip running it your life becomes a misery.
I have had issues with antennas I have installed but they are part of the national emergency system and exempt from any HOA busybodies. Last one was a 76 foot telescopic areal in 2003 and had to go around and around with the city even after showing them the federal protection.
@@kmabru It is Federal. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Thanks Bob, great video! Still deciding what I am going to do in my HOA controlled area. I might use a drone to go up to a 50ft palm tree then run a wire down to the top of my roof.....
How would this work as a tv antenna? My dad and I live in Northern California, and his is one of those tall towers he put up when he got his current home 30+ years ago. One day it will stop working and was curious about how this would work. Their current set up can pick up stuff from Sacramento, Red Bluff and San Francisco.
where you live houses are farther apart compare to non HOA area where I live. your noise floor being much lower than mine despite of having antenna right above the roof. my boss live in HOA area, and he says he is allow to put up TV reception antenna by FCC rule, so he put up his VHF antenna disguised as TV antenna. AG6JU
you can go HF too.... plastic pipe slipped around the aluminium pole at the u-bolts insulates it.... the tv antenna at the top just acts as capacitive top loading. run black rope from the tv antenna to look like co-ax and resonate the whole kit and caboodle to radiate as a 9 foot top loaded pole on HF.... certainly good 20 to 10m.
I use a "fractal" antenna on my duplex! Max SWR with out the tuner is about 2.7 but with my Millen Transmatch I can get it done less than 1. N3ANH/9 in Illinois. Mostly 20 meters!
Fortunately, I don't have the restrictions of an HOA. I bought this house, and my 3 element beam went up, before the trucks were unloaded. NOW, TH7DXX on one tower, and 7 element quad cut for 10 meters. Between the elements, and 2000' elevation, I do get out. KB6PJU-AE
@HOAHamRadio wish I was able to send a picture of what I'm working with. I have an email on my TH-cam page I believe. I'll look into the one you mentioned
HOAs cannot prohibit OTA broadcast band television antennas. I've used my television antenna and roof mast to add additional antennae and my weather station...
when your wire is that close to the tiles it probably makes little little difference which side the wire is.... for 100% stealth can you get inside your loft & access the ridge vent from that side?.... run a half size g5rv along INSIDE the ridge vent & the budgie ladder just drops straight down through the loft & ceiling into the shack.... zero visible from outside (& as tornado proof as your roof)... it reminds me of reading some of the books about the french resistance during the second world war & how they had to keep their antennas invisible too (even down to having them plastered into walls with external connection via 2 metal coat hooks)..... I'm making zero association between HOA & Gestapo. This obviously this wouldn't work if your roof vent was metal... but then just cut it at the required distances, feed it across the gap & duct-tape over the joins.
Thanks for the input. Inside the attic space to be completely invisible and weatherproof would indeed be preferable. I have such a small space, I cannot move around in it, and that is why I opted for outside.
I'n not in an HOA but my municipality limits rooftop antennas to 1 m in height. No limit on length. So I see putting up 1m high posts and running a line above the ridge and possibly up into the trees. OTOH I have so many trees that I could hide a pile of antennas in there too...
Thank you for the video. I live in a high rise and have indoor HF, VHF, UHF antennas. They work well because I am 100 feet above New York City street level. I am curious. what does WSPR tell you about SSB propagation? All it can possibly tell you is about WSPR propagation. N2LRB
WSPR tells you propagation paths; if there is no path on WSPR, you would expect similar propagation paths on SSB. If you have success with WSPR, then other digital modes should have similar success.
www.qsl.net/kp4md/wsprmodes.htm WSPR is a tool for comparison, and from the data you can get to a corresponding point that informs what / how other modes would perform.
for the short side where the short side was too long for the roof, add a series inductive coil where the wire meets the feedpoint. Also, i would def add a lightning suppressor to the feed coax cable BEFORE it enters the house
I think your opening statement on the purpose of HOA's goes to the heart of the problem. Their purpose is to manage common estate assets, that has morphed into this greater purpose to enforce conformity with rules to "maintain property values'. Lot of houses that don't have HOA's do just fine maintaining and growing their property values. Sooner HOA's retreat to their core and keep their noses out of people's business where it doesn't need to be the better.
Nice video, I live across state from you, have an HOA, and I built a rectangular loop antenna that just lays on the roof of 2nd floor extension. i used 10 AWG solid core wire, have a home built attachment point to twin lead and it works quite well. It is absolutely invisible. 73, ke4obv
As always…thank you for the thought provoking idea on laying wire on roof. I’m going to give it a try! Hopefully the Texas heat doesn’t completely destroy the wire in days! LOL
I would be interested in how this works for you. I've had similar (long wire) antennas on my roof in the past with Chameleon wire, their kevlar threaded, for over a year and it was still in great shape when I took it down.
My definition of "stealth antenna for old hams" is an antenna that doesn't look like a "normal" antenna, doesn't require long wires stretched hither and yon, and does not require climbing higher than a two step step stool.
Nice video. I'm planning something similar. Curious how much power you are running with this setup. Do you have any setups that you use an amplifier with?
Nothing on or in the house over 100 watts SSB. If I was going digital, I would pull back to 20 watts. Do not own an amp, and if I did, I would use the power settings as already stated.
@@greyman5590 It will work for you! My wire antennas on the roof are usually noisier than when they are in free space, but when that is the only option, I'll take it.
In the old days when ham operators lived in the top floor apartments in old houses they strung them in the attic. I lived in an upstairs apartment of an old brck house and the owner had the TV antena up there. I was within 50 miles of the main stations in my area and it worked well enough. In smaller towns that allow clothes lines I have run it down the clothes line. You just have to be creative.
I always tell people to read this. FCC 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 This is the federal FCC law that limits HOAs For example if an HOA says no external TV antennas. This federal laws says nope you can’t do that up to a 1 meter size There are added laws even covering HAM radio I’ve had several friends now who had letters from HOAs telling them to take down the antenna. They produce this federal law and well that’s the end of that
I don't have a very active HOA, so take this for what it is worth. My backyard is completely fenced. I have an EFHW (40 meter) antenna that stretches from the top of an 8 foot tall fence to the house peak (about 23 feet) and then back down to the top of the other leg of the 8ft fence. It cannot be seen from the front, and my three back adjacent neighbors know that if something really bad happens (power and cell service is out), then I am the guy to come to for information and communications. (I know, RF and RF burns and all that jazz...but my kids are in university and the cat is the only one who makes the backyard his domain, and if we have a party that includes the backyard, I am not on the radio.)
Growing up in the 60s, the local neighbor ham radio operator was the bane of our existence. There was no watching tv or listening to the radio when he was contributing to the spectrum. Appeals fell on deaf ears, it was his God-given right to broadcast & broadcast he did. Police were uninterested. One neighbor organized a garage band in retaliation, to no avail. Violence nearly broke out on several occasions. Peace came to the neighborhood only when he died of heart attack.
LOL, there are those for sure, more in the past but still some today. Radios today are so much more sophisticated with 21st century technology, AND, an amateur operator in a community should NEVER transmit at power levels that would do as you describe. There is a way to be an amateur operator AND be at peace with once neighbors. If I was the neighbor of the guy you describe, I too would have been annoyed, and joined the band.
The FCC will supposedly take these things seriously if you complain to them. Anything that causes interference like that is a clear violation of the ham license.
"That'll never work!" -- I'm sure you've been told that a time or two. Doesn't matter what they say, get the antenna up and send out some RF...nice job.
As someone from Europe I am little bit puzzled by the concept of hoa’s. It’s contradicts the image of America, which we have, like my home is my castle. There exist similar types of arrangements, but very seldom and I never heard of rules which are even close to this… I assume in certain regions you cannot avoid hoa’s? Or do people really like this level of control? I don’t get it at the moment.
When I was a teen, my mother would not allow me to have a CB. Dad gave me one, (they were divorced) and I hid it in my closet. I made a dipole with bell wire. (I didn't know about baluns.) I ran RG-58 through a vent hole into the attic and down through a hole in the corner of my closet where you could not see it. The radio was in the closet. Many years later, my step father told me they knew I had the radios (I also had short wave radios) but could never find the antennas until he remodeled. I've built and hidden many antennas in HOAs and apartments. I just moved into this apartment and it has a steel roof, so I'm still working looking for ideas. I'm still waiting for HOAs to sue over hidden antennas in a place that says "no transmitting devices" where they have garage doors openers and cell phones, wifi, etc. I want to see that stipulation destroyed. Stealth antennas don't degrade the neighbors' property values.
Hiding an antenna may have different reasons. I have a large beam on my ground, but pulling wires all around an old barn yard does not look nice to me either. And even my wife is licensed too, not arguing over any antenna that benefits the hobby, I love hiding technology. The first thing I learned was, that antennas work other than only calculated. If you take the challenge and try for yourself outside of the textbook, you will have unexpected successes. For example, my Windom has standard-length legs but a far better match with one additional winding on one coil and half a winding less on the other coil. With that I could put the antenna up in an inverted V configuration with coming into the vicinity of the barns side porch. No tuner needed in almost all of the major bands. SWR changes on the woods moisture but never leaves the range that makes a tuner being required.
Thanks for the comments and examples of what you've done. Living in the HOA (I was not a liscenced amateur when I bought our home) has taught me to start with the textbook, then modify to the need. It is perhaps one of the aspects that has taught me more than anything else.
"You can't put up an antenna" is a violation of your right to gather information in every way you choose. In the Netherlands some social housing societies wanted to make that rule part of their policy. Some renters went to Dutch court and the judges found that prohibiting antennes is a violation of everyone's right to gather news by any means imaginable according to Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Even dish antennas (satellite dishes) can't be banned because of that article.
@williamgeardener2509 Oh yes they can! In the UK there are separate rules if you live in a Conservation Area: the good portion of my village cannot have satellite dishes visible. If they want Sky, they have to use one of those less efficient dish types that can be hidden or installed under the roof (if they have the right type of roof covering). Hiding your dish behind thick bushes is of course "suboptimal" ;-)
@@Dranok1 I guess that the UK doesn't like human rights then. Which is strange because the UK is a member of The European Convention on Human Rights. So they're cherry picking?
I do not live in an HOA nor will I ever purchase property in an HOA, though I will stand in the defense of an HOA. Those purchasers knew upfront what the restrictions are and by signing the contract agreed to obey those restrictions so therefore there is no reason for whining and crying and complaining about the restrictions.
Yep, agreed. In the state of Florida, it is illegal to sell a home without full disclosure and presenting to the potential buyer all deed restrictions for the community. Everyone knows what they're signing up for.
The Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act has been submitted as a Bill...it has not yet been voted on (June 6, 2024) so it is not an enforceable law at this time.
@@tamstutz921 I couldn't agree with you more. So many people have a simplistic view of this problem and solution. You wouldn't believe how many comments I get (and delete the worst of the rude ones) on how I am protected by the Fed and the FCC.... LOL, no protection whatsoever. And every Bill ever introduced has been left for dead with no vote. So I take matters into my own hands and present stealth antenna options...and uninformed people comment away telling my I can put up any antenna I want and the HOA can't do anything about it. No doubt someone will tag onto this with that very type of comment.
Who is “They”, and what “law” did they pass…? What we need are facts backed by evidence…. Not hear say. That’s half of the problem of what is going on today.
@@danielzdanowicz6899 The other “half” is overreacting. “They” would be Congress; and “law” would be Senate bill S.3690 - Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act of 2024 that looks "To amend the Communications Act of 1934 to prohibit the application of certain private land use restrictions to amateur station antennas, and for other purposes." It was sent to the Senate Commerce Committee where it, again, is languishing as it has in the past.
Terrific video, thanks for sharing it. I live in an HOA and I look at it the same way you do: there are challenges, not obstacles, and I have three outdoor stealth and/or concealed antennas. Bravo!
Thanks friend; someone else who gets it. It cracks me up when other hams just tell me to move. Move? Why on earth would I do that? I thought this was a science where we were supposed to experiment? Learning how to operate on compromised antennas has been the most fun of all that I do!
Bob, another great illustration for an HOA ham. I recall your earlier video on this concept, too. A thought…I’m guessing that part of the noise is due to the wire being in the “RF noise envelope” of your house…although most ocf antennas are said to be noisier than an equivalent dipole. Thanks for the innovation, Bob! 73 de K4FMH
Yes, definitely picking up noise from the house. I have a 10 meter dipole inside the attic, but I couldn't compare the two based on how trashed 10 meters is right now.
A bud of mine came to my shop asking about how to have a retractable antenna for his station He lived in a hotsy totsy HOA well his house has this glass on 3 sides thing that is 8X8 square and a open top on the front of his house It has a yard art inside of it . I looked at some retracting poles like they use on TV remote trucks and came up with one that uses compressed air to raise using aluminum tubing machined rings and a half dozen seals from hubs of different sizes we got a bit under 50 feet of pole he runs a .94 wave Dominator like I do for my hobby broadcasting . at night he airs it up and when done just cuts off the air its completely visible in the glass area but the HOA cant do a thing he says it's a art piece ! I am glad I live on 300 acres out in the country on a tall hill and have my HDBX 95 for my radios and microwave link for the local WISP that runs airfiber !
@@HOAHamRadio thank you look at a TV news unit at theirs may give you some ideas you just retract during the day . One guy suggested the lift cylinder for a dump trailer ! heavy and expensive needs a LOT of oil to operate .
Love trees, best antenna masts ever! Unfortunately, all the trees seen in this video belong to neighbors in the side and back, and the utility company in the front of the house...otherwise, that is exactly where my wire would be!
A lot of newer hams get all hung up over the optimum height, ground, configuration, etc. Most anything will work to some degree, sometimes you just have to do the best you can. No, it won't work as well as the "perfect" configuration, but it's better than not being on the air.
I rented a duplex in an HOA in California back in the mid 90's. They were relentless in making our life miserable. I got the lowest FCC HAM license and I bought a few sections to make a tower & they went nuts... I showed them the FCC rules that licensed operators are exempt from HOA rules as they are classified under emergency communications. They hated that but had no choice but to leave me alone; I never installed it and I moved out a few months later and allowed my license to expire. We can learn our rights or let others take them away from us....... If this FCC rule is still in effect - then I say tell every HOA to go pound sand....
You are very fortunate that the HOA backed down. PRB-1 does NOT protect you from the HOA restrictions. Thankfully for you they probably didn't have a lawyer look at it. The ARRL is currently attempting to obtain this emergency service protection from Congress with a bill introduced in February 2024 titled "The Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act of 2024". But until such a bill passes we do not have protection from HOAs.
I swear ive seen this before...but a few years ago. I cant put a finger in where though. I swear its this exact video, but this video is from only 4 days ago
I had a video about two years ago where I put a endfed on the ridge vent, rather than this OCF dipole...that is probably the video you are remembering.
Now do that again when we're not practically at solar maximum. With conditions as they are at the moment, RF up a literal wet piece of string will be heard at great distances.
You can't count on it that I will put it up as the conditions change, and I will make contacts; a similar antenna was up before this solar cycle peak and did just fine. Hang with me till then and we'll see together.
Federal law protects the antennas and no HOA can over rule that. Luckily for me PA(the state i live in) has clear law that states no one can regulate antennas below 65 feet above ground level. Yeah its not the best height BUT due to thay law, very few places will fight you on an antenna as long as you inform them it is for amateur radio IF they ask or request it to be removed.
So glad I live in the north east. Outside of condos and townhouse communities HOAs don’t exist. They also do not hold their value the way houses do. HOAs do not preserve a houses value the market does. If the area you live in is desirable the housing prices go up, HOAs do not inherently do that. Housing prices generally go up regardless or the condition of the neighbors houses. Most people do not view the neighborhood anything more than a glance and passing. No one when buying a home even notices the crazies till they live there for a year. I have been involved in real estate for years and can tell you that condos are a terrible investment and the “HOA preserves prices” is a lie. Housing prices are preserved because your in a desirable area to live.
It depends. A sub-division of similar homes maintains value and since the homes are all about the same, the actual selling prices are quite predictable. W/o an HOA houses drift apart in character. It can take longer to get your price on a property. IOW: folks that want to be able to quickly sell, should stick to an HOA. Folks that plan to live there indefinitely, should be hemmed in by an HOA.
@@GilmerJohn for how many years? It won’t be as long as a well built house in an established neighborhood in a desirable area. Subdivisions falling apart is unfortunately normal yet people keep buying these mass production cardboard houses. In the north east where HOA means townhouses, yet if you live in a desirable community you will start getting offers on your house within weeks of listing. In fact the market is starving for houses in some areas so any house that goes onto the market has someone actively looking for it. I have watched houses go from listing to contract in a month. It doesn’t take less time because you’re in an HOA. If you don’t believe me about the mass production crap look up abandoned subdivision. Bet you will be surprised how many are out there.
@@rjgaynor8 Well, the number of years a buyer wants to maintain the status quo is on the order of 3 to 5. The sub-division sill be about the same after even that longer period. Whoever buys it from him will be making the same calculation. Eventually, things fall apart and the HOA enforcements become casual as even the directors don't really feel up to taking care of their own property. But, again, in any 5 year period an owner will increase equity and benefit from inflation.
@@GilmerJohn all that and the fact that developments are built with shoddy work someone will eventually be stuck with a crumbling wreck within 20 years.
@@rjgaynor8 -- Very few privately developed sub-divisions are a wreck in 20 years . That, however, has become the norm in public housing. You can have good construction and bad construction in a HOA or a non-HOA development. Again, the HOA enforces "uniformity." If you only intend to be in a place for 5 years or less, the "uniformity" means peace of mind. If it is your "foreover" home you want the freedom to continually modify things to your liking. What that means is the if you are forced to sell, it may take a few extra months to get your price or you take a bath for a quick sale.
As a HAM, you don't have to run away from the HOA. Actually, in most cases, the HOA has to run away from you. There are multiple protections in US federal law and US federal regulations against homeowners associations prohibiting HAM radio antennas.
HOAs do turn off potential buyers. I am looking at buying my retirement house now in northern Arizona, and won’t even consider looking at a home in an HOA community. I would rather live next to rednecks with a few dead cars on the property than have someone bitch at me about where I park my car, or what color I paint my house.
Step 1 dont live where everyone can see what you do! Lol as a fellow ham i love living in the middle of nowhere and being able to actually live in freedom
Years ago a man in a HOA put up a TV satellite dish. This was back when those dishes were 3 of more feet in diameter. He put up on a pole. Put a picnic table with the pole going through it's center. Then he put a plastic dome on the dish painted like an umbrella. Of course the HOA sues him threatening eviction. The judge agreed with the dish owner. The purpose of the rule was to maintain community visual standards, not deny ownership and use of an item. Since it looked like a picnic table with an umbrella over it and this was not disallowed. He ruled against the HOA.
@@HOAHamRadio The problem with HOAs is it's officers are amateurs holding a professional position. They have usually have no training. Some states do have minimum requirements but they are in adequate, I speak as a former HOA officer. Most States do not have HOA compliance with state laws. For example Florida does having in it's State statute penalty for violating it when a complaint is made they say they do not enforce it (though as I read it they do have the power to enforce the statute). The next thing is most good people do not get involved leaving open election of people with a lust for power over others. Add to the power hungry those that are not qualified and lack the ability to learn tyrants gain control. My current HOA had a President that did not hold the Statute required yearly election for something like eight years. Maintained control by having (against state statutes secret meeting excluding the general membership). Maintained his control of the HOA by appointing, instead of membership elections, new officers as attrition like moving away or resigning created vacancies. This only ended when some homeowners banded together and held their own vote to remove all the HOA officers from office. The problems with HOAs were created by the States when they decided that neighborhoods needed HOAs. Maryland for example required a HOA when the builder built more than 8, maybe 10 houses in a subdivision.
@@edwardcnnell2853 You identify accurately so many of the issues with HOA's...and humans. HOA's are here to stay; I'm gonna do my best to keep showing ways to operate stealth. Thanks for your input.
![แฉกลโกงงานวัด 2024 [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.106 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/taC5dpP3HXA/mqdefault.jpg)
As a licensed Ham you are specifically protected as you are federally licensed and, pursuant to Homeland Security mandates since 2006 all hams are considered in the Emergency services. The HOA or nosey neighbors can file their questions or concerns with Homeland Security or the FCC but, they may not interfere with your access to the ether and air waves.
73s from KD7CKT Flagstaff
You said it right there an Emergency Service.. So till there is an Emergency you will still have to follow HOA guidelines. My uncle lives in an HOA they now he is a Ham radio Operator Like this gent he has his main antenne hidden in sight as a flag pole and another in the tree and you really have to look to see it. But he has a Hand Crank telescopic tower that he will break out in times of Emergency's the HOA knows what he does. Out of respect when he isn't having to operate he brings it down
Yep, that is what I was gonna say.
@@bloodmoongrizzlythefirst6492 No, you are wrong. first off, when a local town by me made a no house antenna law, around 30 years ago. The FCC shut it down. When people in apartments needed use satellite antenna and apartments said, no antennas. The FCC stepped in again and made a law that covered that. The HOA has no authority in this matter. That is a fact.
@@bloodmoongrizzlythefirst6492 yeah youre dumb.
@@pikadroo ...surely in the land of endless lawsuits and legal action, there is a precedent setting court decison that settles the matter for good?
Greatly appreciate this video! I've been a ham for over 50 years and I have always had wire dipoles of all kinds. Almost always they have had to be stealth installed!
I just retired and moved into a townhome in the Pacific Northwest, and my OCF dipole installed is almost EXACTLY as your video suggests. I used a 4:1 UNUN mounted outside a second floor window. One side, goes up over the gutter can to the roof peak, and lays in the same plastic track shown in your video. The other side goes down the side of the house in a zig-zag manner using small metal eyelets as a guide to thread the insulated 22 gauge wire through. I selected blue insulation, as it matches the house color and is nearly invisible! The roof section is 94 feet long, and the house 'side' section is 40' long. I can tune from 80-6 meters and can reach the world when propagation is good with 100 watts and my ICOM 7300.
While it is a compromised antenna, it gets me on the air and is 100% undetectable. Thanks for sharing this so other hams living in restricted communities can have hope that a simple wire dipole will allow them to operate just fine. At 70 years old, I too have had decades of construction experience and can get up on my roof and install this type of antenna, however, I applaud you for suggesting the vast majority of hams should secure the services of a roofer or someone with similar experience, in order to stay safe!
Stan - WB5UDI
Really appreciate this feedback and confirmation that sometimes compromised antennas are in fact pretty good. I'll keep the ideas coming; I think there are more ways to get on the air than many realize.
Flag pole antenna taken straight from Hogan's Heros 😊
Absolutely never buy property in a HOA. I’m paying the mortgage. I’m doing what I want.
I agree 100% my wife and I are stuck in one!
In 2006, I bought a brand new house in an HOA community. 6 months later, I put up a regular TV antenna on the roof so I could get local channels. A month later, I get a letter through the mail telling me I needed to remove the antenna because it was visible from the street. I went online and found a federal law that stated whether I own or rent I have the right to erect an antenna. I made a copy and sent it back to them. 4 months later, they sent me a letter stating I could keep the antenna because they determined it was no longer visible from the street. I never touched it or moved it during this period so their explanation was B.S., eventually I sold my house and moved to another area, my only requirement: NO HOA, took my antenna and still get over 100 channels.
They got a legal opinion and it said "you're screwed".
So glad HOAs don’t exist in the northeast of the US. The “HOA keeps the property values up” is the biggest lie that so many believe. HOAs that are well kept lose their value all the time. Because the housing prices are dictated by the market. More desirable the location the higher the prices. The moment a shift in the working landscape happens your property values will drop.
Buy a house in my HOA, you sign an agreement, no antennas of any kind. Don't like it, you don't buy in our HOA. My TV and GMRS antennas are in my attic.
@@leor8588 I hope you understant their agreement will not hold up in court against a FEDERAL LAW.
@@jorgeandrade20 We have a lawyer. Any signed legal agreement is binding. No one wants to pay to fight it. Besides, I can hit a Gmrs repeater 22 miles away with my J-pole. Good enough ! 😉
Besides , Federal law doesn't mean shit anymore, look at the southern border ! 😡
Congratulations to you! My wife is my HOA...she doesn’t like antennas and wires. I used house wiring that matched our shingles and laid out a delta loop on a section of roof in a triangle shape that followed the contour of the roof. Running a Balun Designs 4:1 balun, fed from the bottom corner. Surprisingly resonant from 40-10, but yes, I use a tuner (Palstar). You cannot see the antenna unless you are right up on it. Most of all, IT WORKS!
Nice job and thanks for showing on the air that a compromise antenna can do just fine!
73,
Brett K5WXP
Thanks for this feedback.... I've been thinking about doing the same thing and I'm thrilled to hear it works! I may need to get back on the roof soon!
Mate, it's in their job description.
I wouldn't have a wife that "doesn't like antennas and wires"
I know of Hams who use electric fence insulators and mount a long wire/dipole on their privacy fencing!
That is a great solution!
I provide lightning protection to my neighbourhood with stacked yagis on a 50 foot tower. It really works, the 40m yagi on top took a direct strike a few years back. The neighbours were very grateful.
LOL, I'm sure they're happy to have you provide this service!
I don’t live in a HOA community, but to keep peace with the neighbors and karens, I installed a random long wire antenna on the inside of my deck railing. No one is the wiser and it works great.
I think that's a wise choice.
I just don't care if they see it or not. They don't care if I hear their incessant dogs or not.
@@adcraziness1501, point well taken. Good luck with the HOA committee.
@@Macjohn1419 I will not live where a HOA exists. We are wholly incompatible in every way.
to all you hams that live in an hoa the arrl has a bill in congress that will prohibit any hoa from restricting a modest ham radio antenna from being installed . any hoa that violates the law would be fined heavily. so hope is on the horizon for you
Yep, the Amateur Radio Preparedness Act introduced as a Bill in Congress late 2023...
I think different versions have been floated for years but never gets passed.
@@christianknight2905 Exactly. That's why I keep on doing what I do...come up with stealth ideas so I'm not dependent on Congress.
So far it's just a bill languishing on Capitol Hill. Not a law yet. We can hope.
The ARRL pushes for these bills every few years, ever since PRB-1 was passed decades ago. To date they have all been unsuccessful in getting through Congress.
I have a homebrew EFHW around my wood fence at about 5ft off the ground and in a J configuration with two 90 degree turns fed at the short end of the J. It's been up for 4 years and the wispr runs are very similar to your roof antenna. It works just fine and is less noisy than my multi-band vertical. Thanks for the video!
I wish I had a fence in my yard for this very reason. I appreciate the detailed feedback; I think this is a great set up.
I just learned about rain gutter antennas. I'm really interested in trying that out. But i also wonder about running a perimeter wire, probably with stan-offs, to achieve a longer run, and i guess, essentially make a loop antenna. Also, florida is HOA hell (I grew up in palm beach county. My brothersand Itried to always be as subversive as possible). I think I recently saw some news blurb about a guy who had his artist neighbor paint a mural of his boat, on the fence he keeps his boat behind, due to HOA restrictions. Freakin brilliant!
I too am going to be experimenting with a rain gutter antenna. Hoping for the best.
When I first started out as a Novice operator, I ran a dipole along the outside wall of my apartment building using standoff insulators to keep the wire a few inches away from the wall. The wall was made of that tan brick material, so the copper antenna wire was literally invisible when viewing from the parking lot. I had an apartment on the third floor. Not the best, but hey, anything that will get you on the air is good!
Great video! You come up with some great ideas. Showing that someone can enjoy HF ham radio without living out in the middle of nowhere is a great service to hams. Not all of us can live out in the country and I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to. Keep them coming!
Thanks for the positive feedback. We can get our radios working wherever we live; not sure why so many people say "move". I have no desire, nor need for that matter, to move.
I have had an anemommeter installed on a PVC tube for years, it’s now gotten longer and has a wire in it.
Sly... Good one...
@@randalltom9750 Once I thought the wind was obscured by surrounding houses and showed a lower wind speed and I copped a greater wind speed when cycling, so I raised the height of the anemmometer but nothing changed so I lowered it but the neighbours noticed but they were more amused than anything, so I have a history of adjusting the height of the tube.
I wonder what effect all that RF will have on the anemmometer? The little cups might spin faster by the corona discharge.
Very nice idea!
Tip of the day. When wrapping your coax with tape. Start at the bottom closest to earth. And wind up not down. Adds a drip edge to the tape. How they teach you in school and makes sence 73
Practical tips that make logical sense, my favorite kind. Thanks.
Another great video! I wish my roof wasn't so darn steep, I would implement more of your ideas if it was easier for me to walk on! A ridge antenna would be perfect! Thanks for all your work! 73 😎
Steep roofs; they look nice but, yikes, those I stay off of.
I have an 80-10 OCF Dipole and it works great. Although I'm not living in a HOA at the moment. When I did have HOA or HOA-like restrictions, I found the end fed half wave and end fed long wire antennas were great for stealth operations because you could easily hide the unun at the feed point, and as you point out, the wire itself is pretty much invisible once it's up in the air. Great video. Thanks!
Someone who gets it...thanks for stopping by. Spot on with the wire antennas; they just disappear into the sky.
Great video. I live in a townhouse in Phoenix. Flat roof, so no ridge. I don't oun the outside of the building, and have a VERY small patio area. I do have a metal cap around the building that I may be able to use for a radiating element if I can hide the feed line. They had to cut down the 2 trees that were around the condo because of disease. Any outside changes have to go before an architectural board. Any ideas would also be helpful. I'm currently looking into a flagpole antenna Hopefully around 30 feet tall on my patio area.
73's KG7COA.
OMG thank you for this!!! This has been a problem for years- you just saved half the Ham’s out there who sadly leave the hobby because of these HOA probs.
There are many many options without have to sacrifice the hobby. Thanks for the feedback.
The FCC has rules that will shut down HOA regulations concerning this. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
I refuse to comply with the HOA's demands to take down my ham radio antenna, as my property is not part of the HOA zone. I had to take them to court, but I won my case against the HOA. It's unbelievable that there is an HOA zone across the street from where I live. My home was constructed in the early 2000s. Have a nice day and God Bless America!!! 😎🇺🇸
God Bless America indeed. Yep, odd they would try to rope you into this; glad you won. Fly the antennas high and in plain sight!
The FCC has rules that will shut down HOA regulations concerning this. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Many HOAs are managed by complete idiots who refuse to take the time to actually read the HOA rules or know the HOA boundaries. The first HOA I lived in was that way. People sought staff positions on the HOA so that they could control the neighborhood, but they didn't even take the time to actually read the HOA by-laws. Most of the enacted by-laws were unenforceable because they were not created in compliance with the HOA rules.
A loop 7' off the roof all the way around, attach sticker to box. "⚡ Mitigation".... It worked for me it can work for you.
I like it; sounds like it did the trick for you.
the QRM is probably from those little switchmode powersupplys that come with phones and internet routers. usually like 10 snap on ferrites on each cable of these powersuplys reduces the QRM already a significant amount. an iron box around these powersupplys and then grounding the iron box helps too but that is some more effort than simply putting on snapp on ferrites. you have TALL trees on your property as seen in 3:34 , a 1/4 wavelenght copperwire on one those trees would be practically invisible and work very well specially for DX.
Yep, those trees.... All the trees in my back yard belong to neighbors. So wish they were mine, cause your spot on; they'd make a great mast for a wire antenna.
Great video Bob. Do you have a link for that tape you are using? Thanks, Jim
Thanks for the support. I picked the self adhering tape on Amazon; it does not have adhesive. You stretch it and then it sticks to itself. amzn.to/4bLnn9p
@@HOAHamRadio Thanks Bob.
Back in the 70’s my dad and uncle put a dipole antenna inside the roof trusses of our house for the base station CB radio my brother got for Christmas. They even dropped the connection to an electric box with a connector through a switch plate, in the wall in my brother’s room. I’m guessing it’s still in the roof there.
Attic antennas are an excellent way to be stealth and affective.
I have a very tall oak partially overhanging the house. I use it for elevation to hang a recieve-only super scanner multi-band in a camouflaged PVC enclosure with a center-fed dipole hung under it (48 ft per side) for pulling in far-away AM 560 and 580kHz broadcasts. Works great, and no one except my mother-in-law even noticed it, much less complained...yet.
Trees! The best masts of all! The one's you may have seen in my vid are on neighbors or utility property.... I can dream, or plant one now and get the mast growing!
My SIL lives in an HOA condo. She has no AC. Her front door faces WEST so
she gets to enjoy that blistering hot afternoon sun broiling her place. She has
a loft with a small window WAY up high against her tall ceiling like maybe it
was designed for a small exhaust fan. SIL said yeah the HOA has told her
NO FANS IN WINDOWS. So she has cooked all these many years. A few years
ago it occurred to me I could build a ductwork out of cardboard leading to a
fan mounted out of sight of that window. Paint the inside of the ductwork black
and no one would see it from the outside. She said NO. OK, go ahead and cook.
I tried to help.
!
For a country that loves its freedom I can’t understand why anyone would want to be part of a HOA. So restrictive and if you get people on a power trip running it your life becomes a misery.
Nice video and tips. The OCFD is really a great multi-band antenna option.
Thanks. I actually have one set up in the back yard now, as it was meant to be...testing it. Awesome results.
I have had issues with antennas I have installed but they are part of the national emergency system and exempt from any HOA busybodies. Last one was a 76 foot telescopic areal in 2003 and had to go around and around with the city even after showing them the federal protection.
Our former HOA tried to regulate dish and antenna location.
This was found to be illegal in SC due to airwaves access regulations.
Pretty sure that's actually Federal with the regulations.
@@kmabru It is Federal. They even clarified this in 2013, not that they needed to. HOA's and even State and local laws are invalid if they concern antenna, dish, or ham radio. If you wanted to be a dick and put an 80's style 12-foot wide dish in your front yard you can and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Thanks Bob, great video! Still deciding what I am going to do in my HOA controlled area. I might use a drone to go up to a 50ft palm tree then run a wire down to the top of my roof.....
Ah, the Palm Bio Mast...that's a fantastic idea!
How would this work as a tv antenna? My dad and I live in Northern California, and his is one of those tall towers he put up when he got his current home 30+ years ago. One day it will stop working and was curious about how this would work. Their current set up can pick up stuff from Sacramento, Red Bluff and San Francisco.
I'm going to guess not so good as a TV antenna...that said, you never know until you try.
where you live houses are farther apart compare to non HOA area where I live. your noise floor being much lower than mine despite of having antenna right above the roof. my boss live in HOA area, and he says he is allow to put up TV reception antenna by FCC rule, so he put up his VHF antenna disguised as TV antenna. AG6JU
you can go HF too.... plastic pipe slipped around the aluminium pole at the u-bolts insulates it.... the tv antenna at the top just acts as capacitive top loading. run black rope from the tv antenna to look like co-ax and resonate the whole kit and caboodle to radiate as a 9 foot top loaded pole on HF.... certainly good 20 to 10m.
I use a "fractal" antenna on my duplex! Max SWR with out the tuner is about 2.7 but with my Millen Transmatch I can get it done less than 1. N3ANH/9 in Illinois. Mostly 20 meters!
Fortunately, I don't have the restrictions of an HOA. I bought this house, and my 3 element beam went up, before the trucks were unloaded. NOW, TH7DXX on one tower, and 7 element quad cut for 10 meters. Between the elements, and 2000' elevation, I do get out. KB6PJU-AE
That is fantastic! Take advantage and enjoy!
Great info. Im living in a apartment and they told me in not aloud to put anything on the roof. Whats my best choice for an antenna?
You could do a small vertical like a Gabil 7350, a magnetic loop; there are a few options, but not sure I have enough detail to go on.
@HOAHamRadio wish I was able to send a picture of what I'm working with. I have an email on my TH-cam page I believe. I'll look into the one you mentioned
thehoaham@gmail.com
HOAs cannot prohibit OTA broadcast band television antennas. I've used my television antenna and roof mast to add additional antennae and my weather station...
when your wire is that close to the tiles it probably makes little little difference which side the wire is.... for 100% stealth can you get inside your loft & access the ridge vent from that side?.... run a half size g5rv along INSIDE the ridge vent & the budgie ladder just drops straight down through the loft & ceiling into the shack.... zero visible from outside (& as tornado proof as your roof)... it reminds me of reading some of the books about the french resistance during the second world war & how they had to keep their antennas invisible too (even down to having them plastered into walls with external connection via 2 metal coat hooks)..... I'm making zero association between HOA & Gestapo.
This obviously this wouldn't work if your roof vent was metal... but then just cut it at the required distances, feed it across the gap & duct-tape over the joins.
Do you mean the GESTHOA ?
Thanks for the input. Inside the attic space to be completely invisible and weatherproof would indeed be preferable. I have such a small space, I cannot move around in it, and that is why I opted for outside.
I'n not in an HOA but my municipality limits rooftop antennas to 1 m in height.
No limit on length. So I see putting up 1m high posts and running a line above the ridge and possibly up into the trees.
OTOH I have so many trees that I could hide a pile of antennas in there too...
All the trees around me are on others' property...trees would ABSOLUTELY be a fantastic option for hanging a wire antenna.
@@HOAHamRadio In my idea I'd be using my neighbour's trees too!
Thank you for the video. I live in a high rise and have indoor HF, VHF, UHF antennas. They work well because I am 100 feet above New York City street level. I am curious. what does WSPR tell you about SSB propagation? All it can possibly tell you is about WSPR propagation. N2LRB
WSPR tells you propagation paths; if there is no path on WSPR, you would expect similar propagation paths on SSB. If you have success with WSPR, then other digital modes should have similar success.
@@HOAHamRadio Where is the science proving WSPR and SSB have the same propagation? There is no reason to believe that it is so.
www.qsl.net/kp4md/wsprmodes.htm WSPR is a tool for comparison, and from the data you can get to a corresponding point that informs what / how other modes would perform.
Any lightning protection included?
Yes, grounding and lightning protection on all my antennas.
@@HOAHamRadio That would have been good to show in this video, maybe a good topic for a separate video?
for the short side where the short side was too long for the roof, add a series inductive coil where the wire meets the feedpoint.
Also, i would def add a lightning suppressor to the feed coax cable BEFORE it enters the house
Adding coils would be a way to vary the performance. Suppression happens at the panel external on my house.
I think your opening statement on the purpose of HOA's goes to the heart of the problem. Their purpose is to manage common estate assets, that has morphed into this greater purpose to enforce conformity with rules to "maintain property values'. Lot of houses that don't have HOA's do just fine maintaining and growing their property values. Sooner HOA's retreat to their core and keep their noses out of people's business where it doesn't need to be the better.
The way your shack is laid out, I really thought you'd say you were a firefighter. Those guys are super regimented like that, too. LOL
Yep, can't help myself. I'll take the comparison as a compliment; thanks for stopping by for a view.
Nice video, I live across state from you, have an HOA, and I built a rectangular loop antenna that just lays on the roof of 2nd floor extension. i used 10 AWG solid core wire, have a home built attachment point to twin lead and it works quite well. It is absolutely invisible. 73, ke4obv
Fantastic! Wire on the roof makes a great antenna. Curious if you wire is attached, or literally just lays there?
As always…thank you for the thought provoking idea on laying wire on roof. I’m going to give it a try! Hopefully the Texas heat doesn’t completely destroy the wire in days! LOL
I would be interested in how this works for you. I've had similar (long wire) antennas on my roof in the past with Chameleon wire, their kevlar threaded, for over a year and it was still in great shape when I took it down.
My definition of "stealth antenna for old hams" is an antenna that doesn't look like a "normal" antenna, doesn't require long wires stretched hither and yon, and does not require climbing higher than a two step step stool.
I'm getting to that same point...needs to be as simple as possible.
AlexLoop, Chameleon, or 2E0ERO Magnetic Loop Antenna for a 2nd floor apt with lanai in SRQ ? I only have an IC-705 transceiver
Yes, a magnetic loop is a common way to get on the air on a lanai.
Nice video Bob, Thanks great idea.
Appreciate the view and comment; I have more ideas than I have time.
Nice video. I'm planning something similar. Curious how much power you are running with this setup. Do you have any setups that you use an amplifier with?
Nothing on or in the house over 100 watts SSB. If I was going digital, I would pull back to 20 watts. Do not own an amp, and if I did, I would use the power settings as already stated.
Have you tried an EFHW on the ridgeline? If not, do you think it would work as well as your OCF? Why did you choose an OCF over any other dipole?
I chose OCF because it gave me multiple bands. And yes, I have done an EFHW and I just don't have a vid on it. I would prefer the EFHW to the OCF.
@ Ok I’m gonna try laying an EFHW on the peak of my roof using those Christmas Tree Ridgeline Clips. Thank you so much for your work. 👍
@@greyman5590 It will work for you! My wire antennas on the roof are usually noisier than when they are in free space, but when that is the only option, I'll take it.
@ Yea my only hope is this ridgline, a satellite slit antenna or possibly a mobile vhf/uhf whip mounted on the blind side of my unused chimney
In the old days when ham operators lived in the top floor apartments in old houses they strung them in the attic. I lived in an upstairs apartment of an old brck house and the owner had the TV antena up there. I was within 50 miles of the main stations in my area and it worked well enough. In smaller towns that allow clothes lines I have run it down the clothes line. You just have to be creative.
Totally agree, use what you have! Thanks for sharing your own experiences.
I always tell people to read this. FCC 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000
This is the federal FCC law that limits HOAs
For example if an HOA says no external TV antennas. This federal laws says nope you can’t do that up to a 1 meter size
There are added laws even covering HAM radio
I’ve had several friends now who had letters from HOAs telling them to take down the antenna. They produce this federal law and well that’s the end of that
I don't have a very active HOA, so take this for what it is worth. My backyard is completely fenced. I have an EFHW (40 meter) antenna that stretches from the top of an 8 foot tall fence to the house peak (about 23 feet) and then back down to the top of the other leg of the 8ft fence. It cannot be seen from the front, and my three back adjacent neighbors know that if something really bad happens (power and cell service is out), then I am the guy to come to for information and communications. (I know, RF and RF burns and all that jazz...but my kids are in university and the cat is the only one who makes the backyard his domain, and if we have a party that includes the backyard, I am not on the radio.)
Fences are a ham radio operators friend for sure; nice job!
Growing up in the 60s, the local neighbor ham radio operator was the bane of our existence. There was no watching tv or listening to the radio when he was contributing to the spectrum. Appeals fell on deaf ears, it was his God-given right to broadcast & broadcast he did. Police were uninterested. One neighbor organized a garage band in retaliation, to no avail. Violence nearly broke out on several occasions. Peace came to the neighborhood only when he died of heart attack.
LOL, there are those for sure, more in the past but still some today. Radios today are so much more sophisticated with 21st century technology, AND, an amateur operator in a community should NEVER transmit at power levels that would do as you describe. There is a way to be an amateur operator AND be at peace with once neighbors.
If I was the neighbor of the guy you describe, I too would have been annoyed, and joined the band.
The FCC will supposedly take these things seriously if you complain to them. Anything that causes interference like that is a clear violation of the ham license.
73s from KD7CKT, Flagstaff. Right on, I have a Diamond Mobile antenna bolted to my kitchen table right by the window in my Studio.
"That'll never work!" -- I'm sure you've been told that a time or two. Doesn't matter what they say, get the antenna up and send out some RF...nice job.
As someone from Europe I am little bit puzzled by the concept of hoa’s. It’s contradicts the image of America, which we have, like my home is my castle. There exist similar types of arrangements, but very seldom and I never heard of rules which are even close to this… I assume in certain regions you cannot avoid hoa’s? Or do people really like this level of control? I don’t get it at the moment.
When I was a teen, my mother would not allow me to have a CB. Dad gave me one, (they were divorced) and I hid it in my closet. I made a dipole with bell wire. (I didn't know about baluns.) I ran RG-58 through a vent hole into the attic and down through a hole in the corner of my closet where you could not see it. The radio was in the closet.
Many years later, my step father told me they knew I had the radios (I also had short wave radios) but could never find the antennas until he remodeled.
I've built and hidden many antennas in HOAs and apartments.
I just moved into this apartment and it has a steel roof, so I'm still working looking for ideas.
I'm still waiting for HOAs to sue over hidden antennas in a place that says "no transmitting devices" where they have garage doors openers and cell phones, wifi, etc. I want to see that stipulation destroyed. Stealth antennas don't degrade the neighbors' property values.
Thanks for sharing this great story from your life! Radio has attracted so many people from all ages; we'll do just about anything to engage it.
Hiding an antenna may have different reasons. I have a large beam on my ground, but pulling wires all around an old barn yard does not look nice to me either. And even my wife is licensed too, not arguing over any antenna that benefits the hobby, I love hiding technology. The first thing I learned was, that antennas work other than only calculated. If you take the challenge and try for yourself outside of the textbook, you will have unexpected successes. For example, my Windom has standard-length legs but a far better match with one additional winding on one coil and half a winding less on the other coil. With that I could put the antenna up in an inverted V configuration with coming into the vicinity of the barns side porch. No tuner needed in almost all of the major bands. SWR changes on the woods moisture but never leaves the range that makes a tuner being required.
Thanks for the comments and examples of what you've done. Living in the HOA (I was not a liscenced amateur when I bought our home) has taught me to start with the textbook, then modify to the need. It is perhaps one of the aspects that has taught me more than anything else.
@@HOAHamRadio Sure that is the perfect way! Start with the textbook, but don't cut the wires too short ;) so you can experiment a bit forth and back.
Thanks for the video!!
You are the most faithful subscriber EVER!!
"You can't put up an antenna" is a violation of your right to gather information in every way you choose. In the Netherlands some social housing societies wanted to make that rule part of their policy. Some renters went to Dutch court and the judges found that prohibiting antennes is a violation of everyone's right to gather news by any means imaginable according to Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Even dish antennas (satellite dishes) can't be banned because of that article.
@williamgeardener2509 Oh yes they can! In the UK there are separate rules if you live in a Conservation Area: the good portion of my village cannot have satellite dishes visible. If they want Sky, they have to use one of those less efficient dish types that can be hidden or installed under the roof (if they have the right type of roof covering). Hiding your dish behind thick bushes is of course "suboptimal" ;-)
@@Dranok1 I guess that the UK doesn't like human rights then. Which is strange because the UK is a member of The European Convention on Human Rights. So they're cherry picking?
I do not live in an HOA nor will I ever purchase property in an HOA, though I will stand in the defense of an HOA. Those purchasers knew upfront what the restrictions are and by signing the contract agreed to obey those restrictions so therefore there is no reason for whining and crying and complaining about the restrictions.
Yep, agreed. In the state of Florida, it is illegal to sell a home without full disclosure and presenting to the potential buyer all deed restrictions for the community. Everyone knows what they're signing up for.
Tampa weather = Houston?
We have a problem...lol
I heard that Florida was passing a law restricting what HOA's can do?
They did, effective July 1st, 2024. Wasn't major changes, just some common sense stuff.
Just stumbled across your channel. Shout out for Tampabay! :)
Glad you found me; thanks for the view.
Love Tampa Bay!
I thought they just passed a law that the HOAs cannot restrict ham radio.
The Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act has been submitted as a Bill...it has not yet been voted on (June 6, 2024) so it is not an enforceable law at this time.
This bill has a long, long way to go before it would become law. In fact, it will most likely never become law.
@@tamstutz921 I couldn't agree with you more. So many people have a simplistic view of this problem and solution. You wouldn't believe how many comments I get (and delete the worst of the rude ones) on how I am protected by the Fed and the FCC.... LOL, no protection whatsoever. And every Bill ever introduced has been left for dead with no vote. So I take matters into my own hands and present stealth antenna options...and uninformed people comment away telling my I can put up any antenna I want and the HOA can't do anything about it. No doubt someone will tag onto this with that very type of comment.
Who is “They”, and what “law” did they pass…? What we need are facts backed by evidence…. Not hear say. That’s half of the problem of what is going on today.
@@danielzdanowicz6899 The other “half” is overreacting. “They” would be Congress; and “law” would be Senate bill S.3690 - Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act of 2024 that looks "To amend the Communications Act of 1934 to prohibit the application of certain private land use restrictions to amateur station antennas, and for other purposes." It was sent to the Senate Commerce Committee where it, again, is languishing as it has in the past.
No HOA here but I still really appreciate the ideas.
Thanks for the feedback...from a non-HOA ham.
As soon as my HOA and their Spies saw me on my roof, they'd want to know what I was doing, and did I apply for their approval to be up there.
I hear you; they all seem to have their own personality...some more strict than others.
tell them you are cleaning up bird droppings, so you don't get fined for a dirty roof.
@@rupe53 LOL, now that's getting creative.
@@HOAHamRadio smart-ass questions deserve a smart-ass answer, right?
Or maybe my answer should be I'm up here to better watch all of you 🤓
I lived in an aprtment back in the 70's -80's I made a 9' dipole and hung it from my cieling.
I'm gonna try some inside antennas at some point; I think that's a great idea.
Take a look at the Color "Disney Blue" and see why it got its name, might be helpful. Stay safe..
Hi. I use Christmas light clips to do the same thing
Great idea; that will be good for those whose ridge vent does not have the type of perforation that mine does.
Terrific video, thanks for sharing it. I live in an HOA and I look at it the same way you do: there are challenges, not obstacles, and I have three outdoor stealth and/or concealed antennas. Bravo!
Thanks friend; someone else who gets it. It cracks me up when other hams just tell me to move. Move? Why on earth would I do that? I thought this was a science where we were supposed to experiment? Learning how to operate on compromised antennas has been the most fun of all that I do!
Bob, another great illustration for an HOA ham. I recall your earlier video on this concept, too.
A thought…I’m guessing that part of the noise is due to the wire being in the “RF noise envelope” of your house…although most ocf antennas are said to be noisier than an equivalent dipole.
Thanks for the innovation, Bob! 73 de K4FMH
Yes, definitely picking up noise from the house. I have a 10 meter dipole inside the attic, but I couldn't compare the two based on how trashed 10 meters is right now.
Get an Antron A-99 and mount it to the top of the tree., Glue on branches and paint it green. You'll get exceptional range.
10 thru 17 with a tuner...nice.
what about a lightning rod duel purpose antenna and lightning rod
Don't forget to switch it from the radio when the storm is coming : )
A bud of mine came to my shop asking about how to have a retractable antenna for his station He lived in a hotsy totsy HOA well his house has this glass on 3 sides thing that is 8X8 square and a open top on the front of his house It has a yard art inside of it . I looked at some retracting poles like they use on TV remote trucks and came up with one that uses compressed air to raise using aluminum tubing machined rings and a half dozen seals from hubs of different sizes we got a bit under 50 feet of pole he runs a .94 wave Dominator like I do for my hobby broadcasting . at night he airs it up and when done just cuts off the air its completely visible in the glass area but the HOA cant do a thing he says it's a art piece ! I am glad I live on 300 acres out in the country on a tall hill and have my HDBX 95 for my radios and microwave link for the local WISP that runs airfiber !
50 foot mast with compressed air, genius. I'm jealous.
@@HOAHamRadio thank you look at a TV news unit at theirs may give you some ideas you just retract during the day . One guy suggested the lift cylinder for a dump trailer ! heavy and expensive needs a LOT of oil to operate .
you must have a laxed HOA , non metallic roof sheathing , unobservant neighbors and a compliant XYL to be able to pull that off Sir . good for you !
Yes, yes, yes and yes! I've kinda got the best of all worlds.
Could you place the antenna in the tree
Love trees, best antenna masts ever! Unfortunately, all the trees seen in this video belong to neighbors in the side and back, and the utility company in the front of the house...otherwise, that is exactly where my wire would be!
Boy I wonder if @HamRadioBasics would use this?
A lot of newer hams get all hung up over the optimum height, ground, configuration, etc. Most anything will work to some degree, sometimes you just have to do the best you can. No, it won't work as well as the "perfect" configuration, but it's better than not being on the air.
Spot on. Put up the best antenna you can, get on the air!
also a tree you can cammo the antenna and run it up the middle of the tree
Oh I wish I had trees, you are so spot on! The trees you see as I spin the camera are all on neighboring properties. Trees are the best camo ever!
I rented a duplex in an HOA in California back in the mid 90's. They were relentless in making our life miserable. I got the lowest FCC HAM license and I bought a few sections to make a tower & they went nuts... I showed them the FCC rules that licensed operators are exempt from HOA rules as they are classified under emergency communications. They hated that but had no choice but to leave me alone; I never installed it and I moved out a few months later and allowed my license to expire. We can learn our rights or let others take them away from us.......
If this FCC rule is still in effect - then I say tell every HOA to go pound sand....
You are very fortunate that the HOA backed down. PRB-1 does NOT protect you from the HOA restrictions. Thankfully for you they probably didn't have a lawyer look at it. The ARRL is currently attempting to obtain this emergency service protection from Congress with a bill introduced in February 2024 titled "The Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act of 2024". But until such a bill passes we do not have protection from HOAs.
Nicely done!
Thanks for the view and comment.
But you can plug into the ground wire. and make you whole house the antenna.
I swear ive seen this before...but a few years ago. I cant put a finger in where though. I swear its this exact video, but this video is from only 4 days ago
I had a video about two years ago where I put a endfed on the ridge vent, rather than this OCF dipole...that is probably the video you are remembering.
@@HOAHamRadio that was definitely it
Now do that again when we're not practically at solar maximum. With conditions as they are at the moment, RF up a literal wet piece of string will be heard at great distances.
You can't count on it that I will put it up as the conditions change, and I will make contacts; a similar antenna was up before this solar cycle peak and did just fine. Hang with me till then and we'll see together.
Federal law protects the antennas and no HOA can over rule that.
Luckily for me PA(the state i live in) has clear law that states no one can regulate antennas below 65 feet above ground level. Yeah its not the best height BUT due to thay law, very few places will fight you on an antenna as long as you inform them it is for amateur radio IF they ask or request it to be removed.
Can I hire you? W4TRI in Winter Haven.
Thanks for watching @W4TRI; unfortunately, I am already way over capacity : )
Easy to solve the problem for me. I would never live in a HOA community. I am too independent.
What did you think of the antenna performance?
I don't get it, you can't have an antenna on your own property in the 'Land of the Free' ?
So glad I live in the north east. Outside of condos and townhouse communities HOAs don’t exist. They also do not hold their value the way houses do. HOAs do not preserve a houses value the market does. If the area you live in is desirable the housing prices go up, HOAs do not inherently do that. Housing prices generally go up regardless or the condition of the neighbors houses. Most people do not view the neighborhood anything more than a glance and passing. No one when buying a home even notices the crazies till they live there for a year. I have been involved in real estate for years and can tell you that condos are a terrible investment and the “HOA preserves prices” is a lie. Housing prices are preserved because your in a desirable area to live.
It depends. A sub-division of similar homes maintains value and since the homes are all about the same, the actual selling prices are quite predictable. W/o an HOA houses drift apart in character. It can take longer to get your price on a property. IOW: folks that want to be able to quickly sell, should stick to an HOA. Folks that plan to live there indefinitely, should be hemmed in by an HOA.
@@GilmerJohn for how many years? It won’t be as long as a well built house in an established neighborhood in a desirable area. Subdivisions falling apart is unfortunately normal yet people keep buying these mass production cardboard houses. In the north east where HOA means townhouses, yet if you live in a desirable community you will start getting offers on your house within weeks of listing. In fact the market is starving for houses in some areas so any house that goes onto the market has someone actively looking for it. I have watched houses go from listing to contract in a month. It doesn’t take less time because you’re in an HOA.
If you don’t believe me about the mass production crap look up abandoned subdivision. Bet you will be surprised how many are out there.
@@rjgaynor8 Well, the number of years a buyer wants to maintain the status quo is on the order of 3 to 5. The sub-division sill be about the same after even that longer period. Whoever buys it from him will be making the same calculation.
Eventually, things fall apart and the HOA enforcements become casual as even the directors don't really feel up to taking care of their own property. But, again, in any 5 year period an owner will increase equity and benefit from inflation.
@@GilmerJohn all that and the fact that developments are built with shoddy work someone will eventually be stuck with a crumbling wreck within 20 years.
@@rjgaynor8 -- Very few privately developed sub-divisions are a wreck in 20 years . That, however, has become the norm in public housing.
You can have good construction and bad construction in a HOA or a non-HOA development. Again, the HOA enforces "uniformity." If you only intend to be in a place for 5 years or less, the "uniformity" means peace of mind. If it is your "foreover" home you want the freedom to continually modify things to your liking. What that means is the if you are forced to sell, it may take a few extra months to get your price or you take a bath for a quick sale.
As a HAM, you don't have to run away from the HOA. Actually, in most cases, the HOA has to run away from you. There are multiple protections in US federal law and US federal regulations against homeowners associations prohibiting HAM radio antennas.
don't live in Tampa Bay, I live in FL and I found tons of homes that is NON HOA
I’m surprised hoa’s don’t turn people off buying your house
HOAs do turn off potential buyers. I am looking at buying my retirement house now in northern Arizona, and won’t even consider looking at a home in an HOA community. I would rather live next to rednecks with a few dead cars on the property than have someone bitch at me about where I park my car, or what color I paint my house.
i know.
Step 1 dont live where everyone can see what you do! Lol as a fellow ham i love living in the middle of nowhere and being able to actually live in freedom
I will tell them that as per the fcc the hoa has no authority or jurisdiction so it stays as the homeowner has the right to transmission
Just for the record, federal law trumps HOA regulations and federal law allows ham radio antennas
It sure does but having happy neighbors is important too
FYI, HOA's are unable to stop a homeowner from putting up a tower and antenna since it's Federally regulated.
Ummmm.... no.
Years ago a man in a HOA put up a TV satellite dish. This was back when those dishes were 3 of more feet in diameter. He put up on a pole. Put a picnic table with the pole going through it's center. Then he put a plastic dome on the dish painted like an umbrella.
Of course the HOA sues him threatening eviction. The judge agreed with the dish owner. The purpose of the rule was to maintain community visual standards, not deny ownership and use of an item. Since it looked like a picnic table with an umbrella over it and this was not disallowed. He ruled against the HOA.
Fantastic. I agree, the HOA's need to focus on appearance; when that is covered, the antenna is irrelevant!
@@HOAHamRadio The problem with HOAs is it's officers are amateurs holding a professional position. They have usually have no training. Some states do have minimum requirements but they are in adequate, I speak as a former HOA officer. Most States do not have HOA compliance with state laws. For example Florida does having in it's State statute penalty for violating it when a complaint is made they say they do not enforce it (though as I read it they do have the power to enforce the statute).
The next thing is most good people do not get involved leaving open election of people with a lust for power over others. Add to the power hungry those that are not qualified and lack the ability to learn tyrants gain control.
My current HOA had a President that did not hold the Statute required yearly election for something like eight years. Maintained control by having (against state statutes secret meeting excluding the general membership). Maintained his control of the HOA by appointing, instead of membership elections, new officers as attrition like moving away or resigning created vacancies. This only ended when some homeowners banded together and held their own vote to remove all the HOA officers from office.
The problems with HOAs were created by the States when they decided that neighborhoods needed HOAs. Maryland for example required a HOA when the builder built more than 8, maybe 10 houses in a subdivision.
@@edwardcnnell2853 You identify accurately so many of the issues with HOA's...and humans.
HOA's are here to stay; I'm gonna do my best to keep showing ways to operate stealth.
Thanks for your input.
You move out and not live in an HOA. That’s where I am!