Don't Fast Charge your Phone before Watching this Video!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2024
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In this video we will be having a closer look at super fast charging that your phone can do. In this mode your phones battery gets charged up with 5A of current that makes it possible to fully charge it up in one hour. Normally your phone charges with 1A and that got me thinking how much your battery suffers during such super fast charging. So I spent way too much time making a testing circuit and then super fast charging batteries 100 times to find out whether there really is a difference noticeable ;-) Let's get started!
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0:00 Fast Charging is BAD?
1:16 Intro
1:40 My Testing System!
3:04 Discharge Circuit
4:27 Charge Circuit (5A 4.35V?)
6:05 Designing the PCB
7:33 Testing the First PCB
8:42 Full Experiment (5 Batteries/100 cycles)
10:38 Results - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You should continue this experiment maybe a about 300 or 600 or why not 1000 charge cycles, because most people keep their phones around 2-3 years. Then we could see the drop in real life
I will hopefully get to that :-)
@@greatscottlab do it! I am so interested
Can you point to any research that states that 'most' people keep their phones for 2-3 years?
What happens to those phones after those 2-3 years? Do they throw them in the trash?
@@elpolaco7654 this is just a gut feeling and also what I see around me. I could be completely wrong. At least many of my friends exhange the phone to a newer model when the battery degrades and the refurb company changes the battery anyway. In other situations the phones are just put into the droor and become backup phones. Also what I have come across a lot in my workplace and through my friends is that the main reason people change their phone after 2-3 years is because the battery has degraded so much, that "might as well buy a new one".
@@elpolaco7654In Finland they throw it from a precipice into the ocean below...
Would've been nice to see how limiting the max charge to 85% would've affected it since that is adviced for lithium batteries to increase the life span
I can tell you that. I charge my phone to 80% most of the time and never let it drop below 20%. Based on AccuBattery log after over 600 charge cycles, my battery is now at 87% health. My wife, however, never care about this stuffs. She would let the phone die then plug-in to charge over night. After the same use time (we bought our phones together in 2020), her phone got under 50% health and have to replace it last month because it was puffing up (it bend the back cover upward, that's how we know).
@@mrdzin1209 So a sample size of 1 per condition? Cool.
@@mrdzin1209 I left my battery die then charge overnight and had no issues, then again I turn off data, location, bluetooth, auto sync everything I can so most phones last 7-10 on days on average that I have owned, times I have had issues were when I say charged when a phone was over 30% full regardless if I left it charge to full or 80% the battery often was lucky to last 1 or 2 days despite what the percentage said.
my phone battery health is 85% after 6 years from only charging to 80%
Same here. My phone isn't quite sure, but it still has 85-90% capacity after a few years charging to 85% (it is still good to do a 100% charge every few cycles so the battery management system knows how much capacity it has)
Interesting study! Only one thing that had to be considered is that the fast charging current is in most cases reduced towards high state of charge. For example charging usually would start with 5A, then maybe 4A at 50% SoC, 3A at 70% and so on. Taking this into account should change a lot. If you additionally limit charging at let’s say 80-90% SoC, I would assume that you measure only minor lifetime difference vs 1A continuous 👍
that's likely to be the battery self-regulating more than it is active reduction by any limiting circuitry in the phone. batteries are like a sponge.. it's going to soak up most of the current right at the beginning but toward the end it will only sip current, regardless of how much you give it.
@@reanimationxp Actually, this comparison is to easy. If voltage is limited at e.g. 4.2V, current is automatically reduced when the sum of internal open circuit voltage and overvoltage (resistance times current) reaches the voltage limit. Nothing to to with a sponge. Before that, the battery draws just the set charge current. High current at high SoC still pushes the Anode potential towards 0V vs. Li/Li+, which is the onset of lithium plating resulting in heavy degradation. More details on google scholar -> lithium plating. This is why EVs charge slower (controlled) at high SoCs and so do recent Smartphones.
use realme GT 3
Whaty's great? If I understand right, he is charging the battery using constant current comletely ignoring built-in controllers that should prevent battery degradation and interpolates his results on this degradation. It seems completely incorrect and useless. Am I wrong?
@@QwDragon You’re absolutely right.
For the inevitable longer experiment, check heat levels too.
I’ve heard (and it feels true) that most of the battery damage comes from the heat caused by faster charging
Apparently most batteries hate heat. Good UPS batteries even have documentation on how temperature affects battery life and one in particular we had set in extreme environments mentioned that as temp got past 70ºC, lifespan approached zero.
Since there were sensors in the battery compartment, a failure resulting in it cooking at 74-76C for a day and half corroborates the vendor documentation.
It feels true since it is true. It's been pretty well studied and proven that heat causes lithium ion batteries to degrade at a much faster rate.
I charge on 67watts and a cooler into the back of the phone, had it for 2 years and I also did a battery drain and charge test on when I bought it vs yesterday. Bearly any difference only falls short of 24 minutes than when it was new. It just depends on how you take care of your things. If you know heat destroys battery lifespan then do something about it instead of complaining.
@@phillipbanes5484 The Poco f3 GT
Been using it for a while
@@phillipbanes5484 Probably an OPPO with SuperVOOC or Xiaomi with 'HyperCharge' which is on retail phones at up to 120W and has been demonstrated at up to 290W at MWC23 back in Feb this year - it was able to fill a 4100mAh in just 5 minutes
As an electrical engineer at the start of my career, I can imagine some of the pains you had to go through for this video. Thanks for doing all this for the sake of free education!
I'm studying to become an electrical engineer. What kind of job did you get?
@@ChristakyMe Research and Development in Electronics design.
We design PCBs for customers and also do testing for them. Similar to what Scott did in this video.
One of our most exciting (but also most painfull) projects is a capacitive touch controlled part for a automotive customer.
I know that we have to go through a lot to get our diploma, but if you have fun seeing complex projects come alive and finally work as planned, it is worth it. You are on a way to learn things that most people use daily but do not know that they even exist. And it's a great feeling to be able to fix stuff that most people do not even know how to open.
I'm from central Germany, in my area the field is booming like crazy.
I basically applied to my dream job like "what could go wrong" (not even had my diploma) and got it right out of university.
Can recommend it for sure to everyone seeing some fun in the work and the constant learning process.
you don't have to be a electrical engineer to know that designing a circuit then remaking it 5 times, then waiting 3 months then having to make only one TH-cam video is painful
@@themastereal8345You do need some knowledge or you'll end up burning your house. By the way it's electronics.
@@ColdFireYTno, you won't burn your house with a 5 amp battery.
Would be nice to use this circuit to also simulate leaving batteries at 100% charge versus 80-90% charge, as some phones now have the option to set a charging capacity limit.
Most phones only fast charge to I want to say 80% then do regular charging for the remainder
I would also be very interested in testing around this (and perhaps verifying at what charge levels fast charging reduces its amperage, if at all)
th-cam.com/video/iMn2yVoEqPs/w-d-xo.html There's "Battery protect". Most likely charging between 20-80% would not have affected the battery at all (even with 5A).
@@mrkukov I'd say at all may be an exaggeration but certainly greatly reduces any effects
My laptop stays at 70% charge with a setting and I disabled fast charge because it always stays plugged in anyway
It is always a pleasure to look at your videos.
Great video as always! Anytime you post a video, I make sure to watch the whole thing through. One of the best on YT for sure.
Interesting video and results! However, I wanna add a thought from my usage pattern. Because fast-charging has significantly changed how I charge my phone. I think we all remember the early smartphone days where you had to charge your phone overnight. That also meant in probably spent a significant amount of time at 100%. For me, that meant I usually significantly drained my battery over the day (near 0%) and then charged it to 100% overnight. Nowadays with fast charging, at least for me, I don't charge overnight any more. I just plug in for half an hour here and half an hour there whenever I go below 20%/30%. And that means that my phone battery (most of the time) stays between 20% and 80% charge, basically never sitting at 100% or being drained to 0%. And from my understanding, modern Li-ion batteries really enjoy being in that 20-80% range instead of being pegged at 100% for hours on end. Maybe that would be something to also consider!
That's why I hugely support more phones starting to allow for charging limits and some apps that alert you when the battery percentage reaches a certain point so you can unplug it
also remember that 90% of iPhone users change phone every 2 years - so even with fast charge every day you lose about 20% of battery for this time... not that much
Depends on the person's routine still. I for instance, cant unplug the phone, cause I only have time to go immediately to sleep. But on the other hand, I use the native charge cap to 85% (android, and yes, most ppl dont know about it).
Good points. Personally I still mostly charge overnight but limited to 85% in software, so I have it ready on the next day where I can't always recharge.
I couldn't agree more! This would be awesome to see!!
It would be very interesting to see this experiment over the long-term (~12 months or so) with included data for the increased internal resistance measurements over this period (which is probably largest contributing factor to increased capacity degradation over time which increases with respect to higher charge and discharge rates).
I've not seen a video of yours for years and I'm surprised to see you in front of the camera, and also almost 2 million subscribers! Awesome progress, very proud of you 😊
Congratulations! I really appreciate your work.
Two extremely important aspects you forgot to consider is that most of these high wattage fast charging phones actually use 2 cell batteries with the power getting split between the 2, thereby increasing the charging speed as well improving the battery life. Secondly, towards the end of the charging cycle(around over 80%) the phone gradually reduces the current being sent to the battery and the last few percent is usually charged at a mere 1amp again to improve battery life. Also the battery is never fully charged or discharged either, a certain amount is kept as reserve to prevent deep discharge/overcharge. Hope you consider these in your future observations.
thats part of the charging curve of the battery ce;
thank you saw this on my feed and seemed a like a shit ton of click bait thanks for telling me what he didn't so I don't have to watch this
Splitting it into two cells can help however, the capacity of each cell is also lower (Half), so you can’t just push 2x as much current for example the C rating would be half for each cell. but I’m unsure as to the exact relation for those cells.
The battery would still have to accept the power. So I don't see how that would change anything.
You just save the convert 12V to 3V step, or lower the ratio, making less losses in the eletronics.
@@erlendse You can place them in parallel instead of series, reducing the current on each cell.
I am more interested on how muc hthe heat builtup causes damage as thats also a major aspect when charging.
Hi! Really nice content as always!
I would just like to point out that the ageing behaviour of lithium batteries is linear only after a first period of "chemical balancing" inside the cells (which induces a streep drop in capacity). This means that in the first hundred of cycles, the capacity could degrade by even 5%, but then it would stabilize to a much lower (constant) degradation per cycle value.
Also, the charging is slowed when the charge is high or the battery is hot.
Good info would love for Great Scott to test this.
@@isaacamante4633 that’s just part of the charging method, you charge it with constant current until you reach the voltage limit which is when the charging voltage reaches the max battery voltage, then you just charge it with constant voltage, the maximum battery voltage and as the battery fills up the current decreases.
@@conorstewart2214yep, the time needed to charge the battery to 80% to 100% could take more than 0% to 80% due to the huge drop on current flow! Some car manufacturers suggest charging batteries only to 80% if you are in a hurry or to preserve the battery lifespan!
@@MyNotSoHumbleOpinionMy phone, a OnePlus 7 Pro, learns your sleep schedule and then will charge to only 80% at the start of the night, finishing it up to 100% an hour or 2 before I get up.
Great work. I can imagine how much work you put into this. I have wondered about the effect of fast charging and you did a great job of showing the effects. Thank you.
Invaluable work! Thanks for the hard work and the great video.
Hearing that 3.55V is considered 0% makes me feel a lot better about all the times I let my phone discharge to stone dead flat - even with the slightly higher chemistry that shouldn't be *too* bad for the battery, and explains why my battery isn't completely dead lol
The more you know :-)
Not exactly that they just consider that voltage 0 just so it has some energy, its just any lower and there just isnt enough voltage to power the rest of the phone, so effectively for the purpose of using your phone, that voltage needs to be higher than 3.55 or it just wont work, hence 0%
@@andrewthomas192 Thats just a side effect. Going any lower voltage will hurt the battery cell and degrade the chemistry inside. Phones will cut off slightly before that true 0% so they can still keep the date and time or be used as a car/door key using NFC. Unless there is an internal short or the discharge protection of the cell is faulty, it shouldnt happen
@@andrewthomas192 What I'm getting at is that lithium ion batteries are generally considered to be safe to discharge to around 3V (or even less sometimes), which means that I don't need to be worried as much as people keep saying about damaging my battery by accidentally discharging to 0% semi regularly. Obviously 0% represents fully discharged as far as the phone is concerned but it's still within safe limits for battery longevity
@@CookieCraftMedia lipo batteries can discharge down to 3 V, so it is giving quite a large margin to make sure you don’t accidentally damage your battery. The minimum voltage could also be due to the required voltage of the electronics inside the phone. Like when powering 3.3 V minimum microcontrollers or sensors you can’t fully discharge a lipo or li-ion battery because the voltage goes too low.
Very interesting video. Hopefully you let it run for an additional 250 cycles to simulate a year en see if it behavior is linear, exponentially or other. Thanks for sharing!
I will try to do that :-)
@@greatscottlab It would also be interesting to charge the battery even faster, I've seen some android phones that can do a ridiculous 150w charging lol, which I would never do but would be interesting to see how quickly it kills the battery.
@@yotoprules9361 they may do 100+ W for a short period but mobile batteries have a C-rate so battery charger automatically sends controlled amount of current into the battery depending on the feedback from the cell protection circuit. one of my ex colleagues had a gaming mobile, that came with a 67 W charger. the battery capacity was totally damaged after 3-4 years, and i demonstrated that charging using my slow 10 W charger (or any slower 15 - 30 Watt charger) that his battery would last longer....he had no idea till then.....
Thank you so much for doing this! Much appreciated 🙏
Awesome that you actually did these tests. I love this video.
Agree with some others asking for greater cycle counts, to maybe even see that degradation curve.
More importantly for the readers, what he did was tiny compared to what damage some of y'all will inflict.
Using your phone while charging(simultaneous charge/discharge), "topping" it off when at 80%, not fully charging before pulling it, etc..
I've always heard that the best way to preserve the battery is to keep the charge between 20-80%. I've often wondered if fast charging when you wake up is better than slow charging overnight. I would be interested to see another test done where you maybe compare fast charging between 20-80% cycles to slow charging cycles where the battery spends 7 hours at 100% per cycle.
Nowadays smartphone can charge up to 80% and stop automatically , then charge it up to full near the time you wake up at
@@lemon9.9 samsung phones have a feature called "protect battery" that hard limits the charge to 85% when enabled, and you can use this thing called "Bixby routines"(has nothing to do with the voice assistant) or "modes and routines" to enable or disable it automatically.
you can also choose the charging speed and automate it which this method too.
@@lemon9.9 I wish phones allowed us to just permanently stop at 80%
Phones nowadays have so much battery capacity that I'm not even using 50% over a day.
I really do not need it charged to 100% unless I know I'm going on a trip or something.
@@TotoGeenen thinkphone probably can do that
@@TotoGeenen My Samsung A52 5G does exactly that (when the option is enabled), stops charging at 80% and will never go above unless you manually turn off that feature. All Samsung devices running Android 12+ (and the full version of OneUI not the "lite" version) should have that, don't know about IOS or stock Android on other devices.
However it is not enabled by default and you have to go digging through the settings menus to find it.
Now do the same with only charging up to 80% and discharging to 20%, like manufacturers recommend.
Oh boy. Maybe one day....
I agree, on my Samsung phones I always turn on charging limit to 85% (its part of user settings) and always try to charge before reaching very low values of battery.
Your videos are always awesome. Thank you!
This is a seminal piece of work, well done!
Wow. Amazing work. Please continue documenting charges over time (every 100 charge cycles) to track that sliding scale... would be really interesting to see how bad it gets over time. You have build something that is very practical! Great job! Love your videos!
It would be interesting to know more about this. Some people mentioned a follow up video after more cycles, and I agree. How long does it take to cycle the cells? At around 4Ah, I am guessing that discharge is 4h and charge is either 4h or 48m, give or take. So around 800 hours for the 1A test (32 days), is that about right?
I’m someone who keeps their phone for as long as possible (only upgrading when it break and repair is more than replacement) so I try to treat my batteries gently (charging my phone on an outright slow chargers overnight, like 0.25C rate or less.
Evidently a LOT of work went into making this very educational and well designed experiment / video.
Thank you for your work ethic and hard work!
Your final conclusion is absolutely correct.
8 layer PCB! Very cool! I remember using a dual layer copper plated boards that were mechanically etched with a lathe bit for my circuit boards! Kicking it very old school there.
Used to use ferric chloride back in the day to etch PCB.. 😊
It's a simple 4 layer board construction
Thanks for running these tests. I'd be very interested in seeing the results at 200, 500, 1000 cycles since the degradation is unlikely to be linear. I'd be even more interested in seeing the results of a similar test except comparing charging to 80% vs 100% rather than 1A vs 5A. My belief from personal experience is that keeping the battery between 20% & 80% SOC has a larger positive impact on battery longevity than anything else it is reasonable for an end-user to do, but I've never done any experimental testing.
Use use realme GT 3😊
This topic has always been on my mind. Thanks alot for your effort to make this video!
Oh, thanks man, I was looking for this type of study for quite a while now, perfectly done, I would say. Love 🥰
Some comments probably already pointed that out but the results of this test won't really translate to smartphones' battery wear in real life. Most smartphones have different battery strain protection features that Scott didn't account for in the test *and didn't even mention.*
Smartphones do not fast charge to 100%, they tend to switch to slow or regular at around 80% capacity. Also thw charging slows down if the battery temperature goes too high.
Thank you very much for doing this. The only thing I’d suggest (other than continuing the experiment to reach 500 cycles at least) is you’re missing the heat aspect, faster charging produces more heat in the phone, which heats the battery, which I believe increases the rate of degradation
No because the internal temperature sensors don’t allow the batteries to go over 70C.
This video is click bait for the stupid people 😂
This can be a great tester for big companies, congratulations
Up to your usual high standards and quality knowledge sharing. Thank you ☺
Very nice!
Tests like this is appreciated - most of us (even if we build electronics as a hobby) would probably never bother put the money and time to buy all those batteries and test them 👍😀
I like your design for charging and discharging circuit. Although I would recommend using a single atmega328p to achieve 6 charge CV (4.35v) and 6 discharge (1A) using PWM and PFM techniques. The 6 analog pins can be multiplexed for additional 6 analog pins. The voltage and current(need op-amps) sensing can used to detect current and voltage for 6 separate batteries. This can make a single device that can charge and discharge individual cells. This would make the design simpler but it could come at a cost of extensive programing, and manual testing, instead of the purpose built IC. But awesome content and great info on testing batteries. Oh yeah, one more thing, the battery quality and chemistry might be different in commercial phones. Need to test broken phones and test against them.
Impressive amount of work went into this video, great job, thank you.
This is why I love you. The level of dedication is amazing.
Many thanks for video and the effort you was taking for that tests. It's always good to have things quantified. Yes, with fast charging batteries are aging quite a bit faster. However, I think through overheating or charging batteries in the cold would deteriorate the batteries faster. Maybe you could extend your test on that using your epic arrangement.
I think it's what most of us expected. I would be interested to see the results comparing the slow and fast charging over many more cycles to show a more realistic phone ownership duration of 3 years.
This guy's test is completely flawed. Quick chargers don't just increase the amperage as he did here, and they dynamically change the charging rate. His understanding of quick charging is wrong as his test results should be ignored.
so much fun & joy watching your videos. thx for your time & effort
I can't believe u did all that work.!!
Man u ar a genius...
Awesome! Some of the manufacturers know that fast charging only one cell is a problem, so they charge two cells with split current (Instead of 5A going directly to one battery, they split it so only 2.5A go to each), i think it is a nice way to overcome this and make the battery life least a bit longer.
I would love to see a video about that, i love your channel
that does not make any sense at all... that's not the reason why some products have 2 cells... the space that 2 smaller cells would physically take up is equivalent to a single cell with twice the capacity... charging a 2.5Ah cell at 2.5A or charging a 5Ah cell at 5A is the same...
I work in a battery lab. And i do these measurements. The real information comes from trendlines while charging and discharging. Meaning you have to log all the voltage readings ( 1sec interval). The degredation shows in how the voltage behaves during charge /discharge cycle. To really know the batterys internal stage we measure something called EIS (Elecrochemical Impedance Spectroscopy). That gives good knowlense about the chemichals inside the battery. A EIS measure system would actually be a good electronics project noe that I think of it :)
Would love to see a follow up later with more charge cycles!
really appreciate your efforts , great informative videos
Thanks for the work you put into your videos
My pleasure!
Great project. It would have been interesting to see the change in internal resistance over time.
use realme GT 3
Excellent VID, thanks for the dedication man
Outstanding video. You have demonstrated what I have suspected for quite a long time. Well done.
Nice video. The difference is really visible. I would really like to see some more testing although it might be really difficult to build as I can see now. Maybe more real life scenarios like charging in the 20%-80% range or how charging voltage affects the battery life (some phones use 9V charging). And more cycles to check whether it's linear trend or it gets worse over time.
Yeah I would second this as well. As Samsung and other manufacturers are aware of this battery degradation and have take some steps to mitigate this. One of them is that by toggling a switch in battery options, it limits the max battery percentage to 85%, thus sparing your battery from the most damaging top part of the charging cycle.
The actual charge voltage will be around 3.5-4.3 volts like shown in the video, not 5 or 9 volts, that's the power supply voltage before it gets regulated for the battery
Very interesting Video. I think in the phone the batteries only get charged with 5 amps for a short duration and the current gets lowered at around 80%. I think that makes quite a difference in the longevity. Also in Samsung phones the charging voltage gets lowered after a 1000 Charge cycles. That would be an interesting topic for an other video.
Yup, most OEMs put in various rules of when to start ‘fast charging’ and when to cut it off. From experience with iPhones it will only start if the charge state is below 50% and cuts off at 80%.
As for charging cycles I’m fairly sure that most people aren’t doing a full 0 to 100 cycle each day. So partial charges have less impact on degradation. Having said that they still degrade, it’s just slower than what it used to be.
Wow incredible work, thanks for doing this!
There are lots of video about about fast charging, but this one is with soome solid experiments. Great job man
Confirmation bias aside, that was something I was always suspicious about and never got around to actually research/test it. Awesome work, as always!
11:27 great vid, love your project !!
Two remarks: the capacity of _new_ li-ion batteries will degrade in the first few charges until the chemistry inside settles (something like that). So it can be very well that fast charging, this initial degradation is more than the slow charge, but over time the degradation of both fast and slow will be the same. Would be interesting to see your results in 1000 times or so.
Second: at least my Sony Xperia phone has a battery management system that can control charging power depending on how full the battery is, and pauses at 80%, until it thinks you will use the phone in the morning based on previous use, and at the last moment finish the charge till 100%. These measurements will keep the battery in very good condition for a long time. Same as a Tesla car, it has very good battery management system, pre heat or pre cool the battery before charging, charge at high speed the first 30% or so, and slow down until the end, change til 80%, unless you need a long trip. Compare Tesla battery life time with that of a Nissan leave, you will be shocked! LiFePo batteries like to be fully discharged and fully charged, they are a bit less energy dense tho.
To conclude, let us know the test results of a 1000 charges.. I'm curious 😊
Thumbs up from me here in the Netherlands 👍🏽
Yes, Samsung does that too, also phones never fast charge to 100%, they charge slower after ~80% to avoid strain on battery.
The Netherlands are a good adress if you want to replace a battery from the leaf or let it upgrade. I thought in Delft there is a company who offers this service. Here in Germany most repair garages dream in petrol yet. Anyway as a leaf owner I can confirm it, but Nissan hadn't learned from their experiences and built the successor also without battery cooling. Where you can run into issues on long trips with fast charging. At least we didn't decide to buy a new leaf for this reason and get a Hyundai EV.
@@matneu27 somebody, (I thought a guy from Finland?), "jail-broke" the Nissan Leave board computer, and recently made it open source. With that everybody can replace a Nissan leave battery... You need to search on it, but worth while if you own a leave.
Tesla batteries are superior, the battery management is excellent, so these batteries last for a very very long time (don't count the few exceptions).. If you can get your hands on such car, you're golden 😉
Hi! Really nice content as always!Nice video. The difference is really visible.You've done a great job addressing this subject Thanks for running these tests.
As always, thank you so much for the details you provide for free to us🥰🥰🥰
Fantastic work, dude! And what a massive work!!! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks! You too!
It would be interesting to see what the outcome would be while keeping the battery between 20% - 80%
I love the content. Thanks for the dedication to make a video like this.
Thank you for sharing. I have a few hypersensitivities and paradoxically stim against them to self regulate.
Love the option on lots of mobile phones to use your sleep schedule and slow charge at night time. Should be a standard feature, or at least optionally offer it to prompt for fast charge. More battery wear means more sales though..
🎉use realme GT 3
Awesome experiment! But I have a question in mind: Modern smartphones makes use of means to reduce this effect, have you considered anything on those charging device, like "Trickle Charging", Battery Temperature control (Since the batteries will probably get warmer from each cicle from the constant 1A use), and Adaptive charging? If not, these are a few points you could explore in future videos for this experiment, cheers!
Very clear, thanks for this information!
Yup. Good work. Thanks for the effort.
please test 20-80% as well !
Oh boy. That would be another long test series as well.....
@@greatscottlab 3 videos, 3 views and comments from me, does that sound like a good deal?
I am always amazed at how much effort and work you invest. Thank you for the test, I've been interested in it for a long time but unfortunately don't have the hardware to test it myself.
Awesome, would you share more about programming and how the circuit works
Thank you! I’ve been really waiting for someone to make a video on this! But just wanted to let you know, the most phones don’t fast charge at 5A. they instead charge at a lower amperage at a higher voltage.
Great video! I do think I would like to see this test with the charging curve that phones use these days. Many of them will charge at 5 amps until about 50% then lower to say 4 amp, then at 75% or 80% lower to 2-3 amp and for the last 5% charge at 1 amp. I think this does a LOT for the cell health. There is also the newer voltages offered by USB-C PD like 9v, etc. Additionally. My research in college on cells of this type showed that heat was the main factor in degradation in almost all scenarios. This is why I put my phone on a metal desk when fast charging if possible and after monitoring the battery temperature while charging, it now stays at the same temperature as if I was charging my phone at 1amp. There is also the new features that allow you to stop charging at 80-85% because the second biggest factor is taking a lithium cell up to 100% (and inversely down to 0%). This is more pronounced during long periods at a high state of charge so I think your test probably won't see the effect of that as much because you quickly start to discharge after charge reaches maximum. As others have mentioned, there is also a chemical break in or balancing period where there will be a slight upwards trend for the first few charges (if they weren't conditioned from the factory) then a steady and higher than average reduction in capacity until it levels out over 50-100 cycles. Lithium tech is complicated there's a LOT more tech going into charging your phone and laptop these days then "Just throw 5 amps at it".
Yeah, there was so much wrong with his method here.
I have been using 120W supercharging for a month now and I am using a program Accubattery From the first day the phone was opened out of the boxes It gives me data that the health of the battery is 95 percent, knowing that I do not let it drop below 10 percent, but charging is always 100 by 100
also you can limit the charging to 80-85% on some phones. I wonder how much it helps.
The 9v at the USB isn't fed straight to the battery. It's still charged at 3.5-4v for most of the charge cycle. The higher voltage on the USB port is to overcome the crappy think wires in a lot of USB charging cables and push more power at least current.
@@tin2001 Higher voltages are to get more Watts. Higher the voltage, lower the amps for same Watts. Not because of crappy wires, but in order to keep wires and connectors small. The connectors can only handle so much current, but much more voltage. In order to get 40W at typical 5V it would be 8A. So they bump the voltages up to lower the amps for the same Watts. 40W at 9V is only 5A, 40W at 20V is 2A etc.... And yes, of course there is a charge controller to limit what goes to the battery. Look up the PD specs for standardized voltages and currents, then of course some manufactures have their own as well.
This video couldn't have come at a better time.
I mean it came right on time for when I've been reading up and researching about fast charging on phones and its effects on batteries for the past week.
I must commend your effort, Great Scott. You've done amazingly well to have gone ahead to actually test what most of us have only theorized and speculated. I'm quite surprised at the results, though it wouldn't bring me to the same conclusion as you because I feel the time savings from fast charging is a whole lot more valuable than the ~11% battery capacity loss after ~2yrs. Especially since smartphone batteries can actually be replaced if and when it loses too much of its capacity.
Thanks once again for this experiment, I hope you can continue with it to maybe present longer-term results of fast and slow charging.
Fast charge can be a good thing but if the amp is to high it can damage the battery, what most people dont know is that battery has maxinum charge rate that can fast charge a battery without damaging it, if you have a 12v battery you can fast charge it with a third 1/3 of the rated voltage, 1/3 of 12 is 4 so you add that 4 volt 12 and you get 16, a 5v battery would be 1.6v so you add 1.6 and you get 6.6v at about 1 or 2 amp.
This is so misleading most common fast chargers charge your phone 5v,9v,12 with only 1-3amps than those 5amps also those 3-5amps pretty sure they dont charge the whole battery for 3-5amps its smart to gradually lower its amp tru the whole charging. Also ive read that those battery that being charged with 5amps are like two batteries in one package so meaning 2.5amps per battery and its fast charging because you basically charging two batteries at the same time
Thank you!!! I still use a "old" 5W battery charger and its perfect!
Nice content! Would love to see an extended test with a few more 20 day cycles
I use the "Protect Battery" setting in my phone to only charge to 85%, I easily make it through a whole day anyway. I have however wondered if that actually does any difference. It would be interesting to see if that actually does anything to save the battery. Maybe a test you could do in the future? I saw you had the option on your phone at 11:52.
just look at this like that. you are using 85% of your battery thru your whole life so you get your 85% of your battery now and let say after 3 years. or you can use 100% of your battery when its new and it slowly degrade to 85% after 3 years. you are giving up this extra battery life for nothing. even if you won't sell it after 3 years and get a new phone, new battery for samsung cost (at samsung store) like what? 30-40USD? that's like $0.04 per day.
Max charging does degrade the battery faster. Tesla would only charge to 90% most of the time unless you say to charge to 100% for a trip. If you plan on keeping the phone for a long time this will help keep the battery going for longer. Everything is a trade off.
Bruh, my old phone used to switch off with 5% battery remaining😂
Haha.....maybe don't fast charge though ;-)
5% is good i had my old iphone 6 crash with 60 to 80% remaining and then rebooting with 10% left
And that happened daily
thanks for the effort, appreciated
I really appreciate these four months you took to make one video of 10 minutes. This is valuable information.
Results like these feel really frustrating because so much effort goes in to seeing only a small difference. We all like to see large efdect sizes when we run experiments 😅
But thats also what makes this test so worthwhile, seeing that the effect size is not all that huge is a very useful bit of data!
Thank you for spending the time and effort to put this together 🙏
Really cool info. You should continue this experiment and also introduce new factors. There has been research that charging to only 80% will preserve battery life. If you limit the charging to 80% how would that affect battery capacity? Also was it the fast charging that hurt the battery capacity the most? How do batteries degrade if just using regular charging?
I think it just doesnt wear the battery. Most phones slow down charging after 60% or something because after a certain capacity the battery may be overloaded if charged too fast.
@@LKonstantina915 there's definitely still battery wear but not as much. Battery wear is apparently not linear. It hurts the battery significantly more when charging past 80%.
I do have some experience with charging and maintaining batteries and yes, fast charging hurts them. Its not such a big deal when you keep them cool but as the temperature rises, its a significant factor for longevity. Also keeping the battery in 70/30 or 80/20 SOC helps. If you dont aim for full capacity - eg you know you are not going to need every mWh from it, its a very good idea stick to such charging plan. Unfortunately mobile phone is to be kept at maximum, to be ready to go. Yes there are exceptions...
Thank you for this video, i love it, i hope you will do more testing and maybe add temperature sensor to check if it impacts the battery
Scott? You are rally GREAT! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Which app are you using to display the charging speed aka current or mA ?
thx
Ampere
While I also do not use fast charging unless necessary, I think this neglects a benefit of fast charging:
With slow charging you are likely to charge overnight, thus keeping the battery at 100% for quite a long time if done every night. With fast charging you might charge during the day and take the phone off the charger before 100% is reached. This may balance out the fast charging wear or even tilt in favor of the fast charging, depending on the exact usage.
Some phones, e.g. Samsung, has a feature to limit battery charge to 85% instead of keeping the battery at 100%.
@@nathanadhitya Which is great and I think all phones should have that setting. Samsung also allows you to limit the charging speed, which also all phones should have. With my OnePlus this is not possible, so I rely on using old 1A USB-A chargers for doing the slow charging.
I have routines set up on my phone to modify the behavior. During the day, it will fast charge, since it's assumed I'll just be topping up quickly. At night, I have it set to disable fast charging, and also enable the protect battery mode which limits the charge to 85%. At 5:45AM, about a half hour before I get up, it's set to disable protect battery mode, and charge the last 15%. So it's just reaching 100% as I wake, and never sits on 100% for more than a few minutes.
Phones are smart, and many phones learn your charging habits, even my 6 year old Huawei does it.
Nice , appreciate all the work and learn much in the video.
That's pretty slick , Never thought about pulling I/O high or low with LED supply.
I always thought of fast charging as a cool idea, but as something for emergencies, not daily use. That's why I usually charge my phone with an 18W charger, but if I need it charged really fast, I use the included 67W charger. Also, you charging the batteries at 5A calculates to about 20W, while modern phones charge at 67W, 100W, 120W, some even more
Exactly, charging 100W @4V is 25A to the accu and not "safe" 5A
@@jankomuzykant1844 100W is never 4V.
@@jankomuzykant1844imagine not valuing time wasted over money 😂
Would be interesting to do the same test but with different levels of "discharged" state, I personally never let the battery go below around 50% and have yet to find a difference in my phones ability to retain charge, even if the fast charge's rated for 6A@120w
Holding the capacity between 30 and 80% would be better
Lithium batteries don't like to be charged or constantly at 100%, which is why Samsung has a limiter you can enable to only charge to 85%. So additional tests would be interesting.
Sounds interesting; but also like a ton of extra work....
@@greatscottlab can't you just change the charge/discharge triggers in the arduino code ?
@@wojtek-33I use that feature all the time and I occasionally superfast charge it up to that 85% in 45 min from almost dead
Great video, very instructive ! I'm having trouble getting the discharge circuit, if i understand correctly the opamp drive the mofset in the saturation region to generate the voltage drop needed to be at 1v at the resistor, but to do this the mofset have to draw a non negligeable amount of power ? I did a quick test in ltspice and ended with 3.6w of power consummed by the mofset on top of the 1w from the resistor. I guess i'm wrong somewhere 😅
FWIW the Opus C3100 battery charger can be set to the slightly higher (or lower!) voltages on Lithium batteries using a "secret" internal selector switch inside the case. It also has a mode that can discharge and recharge them.
Do you plan to extend the experiment beyond 100 charge cycles? I would like to see the long-term data and see if the trend really is linear.
I am also interested in the temperatures of the battery and the potential effect of cooling them under fast charging conditions.
Spoiler, the 5a batteries were hotter, and likely heating the 1a batteries would’ve degraded them too. Battery University has a lot of information.
I'm not an expert here, but how would a two-battery system like my oneplus has be affected? Since fast charging is 6.5A and charging is done in parallel, would that mean 3.25A per battery and therefore less impact on the lifespan?
Batteries aging is influenced by a couple of factors:
- Charging/Discarging speed: Calculated in relation to the capacity: A 5000mAh battery charging with 5A is a charging rate of 1C. Halving the battery size and halving the charging speed keeps the same relative speed, so the same aging. This is what is happening in the OnePlus phones. Yes, each individual battery is charged at half the absolute current, but at the same relative current as if you had one big battery.
- Temperature: this is where using the dual battery system can help, as the charging speed is limited by the maximum aperage over the usb connector. Thus to get more speed you need to up the voltage. Then you would need to DC/DC convert it back down in the phones charging circuit to the charging voltage of one cell, or use two cells in series to have to do less conversion. This moves the losses out of the phone, resulting in less heat. OnePlus (Oppo) goes one step further und moves all voltage conversion to the power adapter, making it a real charger and not just a voltage supply like normal usb "chargers". It supplies the charging voltage for both batteries in series.
- Battery cycles: keeping the battery between 80%-20% greatly extends the battery life
- Age
Normally, the recommended charging current remains in a linear relationship with the capacity of the cell, so it seems that such a solution will not have a significant effect.
Two battery phones are usually in series My current phone is like that
Like right now it says 7.870volt on my battery
That expired solder paste joke was pretty funny. I'm going to steal it; thanks!
This is great info. Thank you
Very good, as always ! It would be interesting to see if the pattern persists after 100, 200, 300, 400 cycles. This would confirm the result (2% is not very much of a differrence, besides, do you know what is the uncertainty associated with capacity measure ?)
Also, it would be nice to see if the original capacity can be "restored" by some slow charging cycles of the fast-charged batteries.
This may seem a lot of questions but you've already made the hardest part of the work 🙂
But doesn’t the super fast charging taper off at 80%? Would it be worth running this again but doing the last 80% at a lower current? Or only charging to 80% each time
My 5A charging circuit also reduced its current as the battery got close to being fully charged up. The power input was pretty similar to that of the phone.
After 80% it's not using fast charging mode. My baseus powerbank has wattage meter. After 80% 45w drops to 10w or 9w.
Also fast charging triggers when ur display is turned off. While u using the phone fast charging doesn't work on Samsung (idk about other brands)
@@dinithawEh? Fast charging works just fine on my Samsung with the screen on
Awesome 👏🏻 Video Thanks 😊 for doing the hard work and sharing it with the world!!!!!
thank you so much scott!