When our teenage son took his own life, a month had passed and I realized we were coming up to the two month mark...two months since he'd died. How can I do this, I thought, it hasn't even been 2 months and it feels like a year...how can I do two years? Ten? As had become my custom, I went straight to my room to kneel and pray. "Heavenly Father, how can I do this? I can't do this." The Spirit brought to my mind the account of Lot and his wife leaving Sodom. The Spirit said very clearly, "LOOK FORWARD. LOOK FORWARD." Since that day, I have stopped marking time...everything I rejoice in is AHEAD, FORWARD. The Lord has done mighty things to strengthen and comfort us!
How they treated their guests in the middle east according to Dr. Peterson is still true today. When we were on patrols in Afghanistan and if we stopped at a friendly Afghan village, they would in fact treat us like Odesius. They gave us all the food and water they had. Even though we had more than them, they had tremendous respect for their guests.
I do enjoy and benefit from your podcasts every week. Thank you for your insight and for bringing in scholars for us to hear. I would like to present another idea for Lot's wife, though. I'm afraid that I have always- and I mean always- felt great compassion for her. She was a mother and probably also a grandmother. We know that she had at least 2 married daughters, as it mentions that Lot tried to convince his sons-in-law to join him in leaving the city. Those poor daughters had no rights to leave and go with their parents, whether or not they wanted to. And if there were children, those little ones would also have been compelled to stay. Putting myself in Mrs. Lot's "sandals", I can't imagine leaving my girls and my grandbabies in Sodom. If the angels had forcefully removed me, I seriously doubt I would have been able to stay put. I'm sure I would have been willing to risk my life in order to try to rush back and carry away any of my dear ones that I could, hoping to be quick enough to beat the destruction. I see the pillar of salt as a memorial of her love. I realize that if my version of the story is true, it plays havoc with the wonderful lesson of not looking back But as I have never heard anyone postulate an opposing interpretation for this story, I thought I would share my two cents worth.
I loved his comment about five minutes in, "My confidence is the church is true. There's no criticism out there that's going to be lethal." Thanks so much for this. All the interesting facts like bargaining being very common in the culture or insight into hospitality etc. has been helpful in teaching my family Come Follow Me at home this week. Many thanks!
I am not quite sure why people seem to keep saying that the men visiting Abraham were angels and that the Lord was one of them. Here is just one quote: "These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord." (Doctrines of Salvation 1:16 - Joseph Fielding Smith). The Joseph Smith translation makes it clear that they were "three holy men". Bruce R. McConkie talked about these men as the first presidency of the day - I believe Lot and Abraham knew these holy men, and it could be that one of them was Melchizedek. They had the fullness of the priesthood , and were on a mission from the Lord.
All three of you have such a knowledge and depth in the subject matter! I love the way you teach with strength and with humor that is always clean and never mean spirited. You are doing a wonderful service for me and for thousands of other people.
It hit me last night listening about Lot's wife (and Nephi's brothers) that their hearts had not left, when they were told not to look back. We left behind our dream house and wonderful life and I have been mourning it ever since. My heart remains back there nearly 2 years ago even though we were doing what the Lord directed us to do. I am not sure how to get over this. And I don't really want to be a pillar of salt!
My mother-in-law has a similar kind of story. She says that one day, she realized that she was coveting their old property, and that realization helped her let go and enjoy the place where they were actually living.
Love this Podcast. I am a Seminary Teacher and find this Podcast a great source for my personal study. Just one point I seek clarification from Dr. Peterson, in verses 1-3. My understanding is that the three "messengers" were men sent and not any one of them were actually the Lord Himself. It seemed to me that Dr. Peterson was suggesting that one was the Lord Himself in some form to make this possible. I reference JST 3a, "Brethren" and the Institute Manual from the Church Website.
This is so amazing! I'm going to have to go through the Old Testament and look for all instances of "Stand before the Lord". That insight that it means that he is part of divine court is a gold nugget of gospel wisdom.
I appreciate your podcasts and have learned a lot. I also like the different perspectives people bring. I do have a concern though. When talking about sections of scripture that have a JST, please bring attention to the JST. With Lots family and interactions, the JST tells a different scenario and it is important.
Like several who have commented, I'm surprised that this week's guest, with all of his background and experience, did not bring into his discussion and explanations important information in the JST relevant to difficult issues in these chapters, i.e. Who were the guests that Abraham entertained? And did Lot offer his daughters to the men of Sodom? John made one reference to the JST in his comments, but, otherwise, neither of the hosts filled in the missing JST material, which would have been very helpful and informative. I'm a regular follower of this weekly gospel forum and very appreciative of both the hosts and their esteemed guests. I'm just a little surprised at the important omissions from this week's discussion. Regardless, thanks for all your good efforts!
I watch the end of "Faith of an Observer" often. I have watched many many Hugh Nibley lectures and that's the only time I have seen him get emotional. So wonderful, made me happy to hear Brother Peterson bring it up.
I love these podcasts - I learn so much. I must disagree with “two sides to every story” though - in cases of abuse, there is only one side - the person carrying out the abuse holds the full blame - end of story.
I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, so bear with me, I have to play devil's advocate for a moment here. "Are we not all beggars?" Often, abusive and maladaptive behaviors are born of undressed/unhealed trauma, especially childhood trauma, where the people acting out especially hold no accountability for the way they were treated and the "programs" they learned. "In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can't see." Thankfully, the burden of judgement, either condemnation or forgiveness, is the Lord's, and all we have to do is hand it all to Him, and work on appropriate boundaries.
This all says so much about Abraham’s relationship with Heavenly Father, the Lord, before his life on earth. Was he one of the elect by God himself, beloved from a long history of choosing the right before he ever arrived on earth? Was he one that some of us feel the same connection with?
Why is it that the jst version of ch 18 and 19 seems to disagree with your guest. JST says they were holy men and that three men went to Sodom not two and also jst says lot did nt allow his daughters to be taken. I m confused.
I love these podcasts and listen to every one I can. I do have one huge thing to say about the Lot story though. It relates to what Lot did with the mob. If we look at the JST in this area, we find that Genesis is very wrong in the account of Job offering his daughters to the mob!!! JST Genesis19:11 Wherefore they said unto the man, we will have the men, and thy daughters also; and we will do with them as seemeth us good. JST Genesis19:13. And Lot said, Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, plead with my Brethren that I may not bring them out unto you; and ye shall not do unto them as seemeth good in your eyes; I can’t believe nobody seems to have picked this up. It is a total turn about on the Genesis account of the incident.
I appreciate your podcast. I don't concur with Dr. Peterson that a pre mortal Christ sat and ate with Abraham. From Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith: “We are not justified in teaching that our Heavenly Father, with other heavenly persons, came down, dusty and weary, and ate with Abraham. This is not taught in the 18th chapter of Genesis. The first verse of that chapter should read as follows: ‘And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre.’ That is a complete thought. The second part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the Lord’s appearing to Abraham … : ‘And he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him.’ These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:16.) In the Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 18:23 states definitely that “the angels … were holy men, and were sent forth after the order of God.” Perhaps I misunderstood him..? Thanks brethren. 😊
Wonderful discussion. I also remember hearing Hugh Nibley's tender description of Abraham receiving the answer to his fervent prayer. Dr Peterson refers to it at 11:00. I spent some time trying to find the original Hugh Nibley clip on "Faith of an Observer". And i did find it near the end. It is as sweet as I remembered it. Thanks for inspiring me to look for it again.
In my other study this week it said there were three holy men probably leaders of the religious community. Someone else said they were from the area of Enoch but almost all of them said it definitely wasn’t Jehovah or Heavenly Father or the Lord with a capital L. They went out of their way to say those are completely different thoughts even though the sentences are close together. I don’t know … can someone explain that?
I love listening to your podcasts, and my testimony of the Gospel and God’s plan for us, has been strengthened, as well as more knowledgeable, because of you and your guests. I do feel, though, that you have a responsibility to correct when something mentioned goes against what Modern Prophets have said. The JST and the Institute Manual for the Old Testament, concerning Lot’s daughters, as well as the 3 visitors to Abraham and Lot are different than what was brought out on your show. Concerning the 3 visitors, the Institute Manual says; “We are not justified in teaching that our Heavenly Father, with other heavenly persons, came down, dusty and weary, and ate with Abraham. This is not taught in the 18th chapter of Genesis. The first verse of that chapter should read as follows: ‘And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre.’ That is a complete thought. The second part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the Lord’s appearing to Abraham … : ‘And he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him.’ These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:16.) In the Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 18:23 states definitely that “the angels … were holy men, and were sent forth after the order of God.” Since the TH-cam videos and podcasts go throughout the world, it might be advantageous to you to make sure that everything said, is pretty accurate, or that you try to bring out the Prophectic corrections in your closing remarks. Keep up the good work!
Lot and his daughters get a re write in the JST ... I think we get our KJ Bible through medieval perspective of the royal court of king James... Much prefer and understand the JST version of the story.
I think that it would be helpful for people to study the work of Rene Girard. He had studied every work in history and noted that scapegoating and human sacrifice is threaded into every historical experience of EVERY civilization on earth. He became a believer in God by reading the Bible and seeing a different outcome. The Bible put an end to the natural men’s idea of ending conflict through scapegoat, human sacrifice and the mimetic desires of man. God gave us the perfect mimetic personality in Christ and to look within ourselves to solve conflict. It has been a powerful, testimony shift for me to study his ideas and see how God is helping us as a human family to change in a positive direction. We look at the story of Abraham with disgust because we are haunted by the work Jesus Christ on the cross. He helps us see value in the victim in our society and desire to help them and not scorn.
Hearing Dan Peterson say he’s not sure he really understands the Atonement gives comfort and peace. If he has to work to understand it, then maybe the rest of us aren’t as out of touch as we think we are. 😄
Lot and his family seem wishy washy members. Did they have the oil of conversion? They were notorious for making poor decisions. So how am I doing, how are I doing with strengthening my testimony?
Genesis 13:10 Before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah the plain of Jordan was well watered and lush. Therefore what Dr Peterson experienced was after the destruction. So probably no desert until after the destruction. Also Ezekiel 16:49&50 lists out the sins of Sodom of which committing abominations was just one of six.
Lots wife’s story is very similar to the children of Israel too. They thought it be better to return to Egypt vs following Moses. 🤦🏽♂️ The future is always better than the past. Redemption and The Savior wait for us in the future.
I do not like it when members of the church justify Lot offering his daughters without mentioning the correct translation at the bottom of the page in the JST ☹️ No doubt the 2 visiting angels would have completely expected Lot to give his life before offering his pure daughter's! "13 And Lot said, Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, plead with my brethren that I may not bring them out unto you; and ye shall not do unto them as seemeth good in your eyes;"
First off, I love all your podcasts. I listen to them every week. I also study David J. Ridges “The Old Testament Made Easier”. This week I found two different statements about who the three messengers were. Can you please tell me which one is correct. Dr. Daniel Peterson stated in this podcast that the three messengers were Jesus Christ, possibly Gabriel and another angel. In David J Ridges he states this Lot will be visited in Sodom by three holy men. They are referred to in verse 15 as “angels of God, which were holy men.” We do not know who these men were, nor do we know where they came from. One possibility is that they might have come from Melchizedek’s righteous community. Or, they could possibly have come down from the City of Enoch (which had been translated and taken up-see Genesis 5:24 and Moses 7:69) to minister. We simply don’t know. (Page 212 of Old Testament Made Easier part one; by David J. ridges Genesis 19) Thank you for your help.
I’m confused on the 3 messengers. If I’m understanding correctly Dr. Peterson is saying that one of them is the Lord who stays while the other Terry go on to Sodom. Is that correct? Because the JST corrects Gen 19:1 saying there are 3 angels in Sodom. Are we correct to understand that there were 3 angels as well as Jehovah? Having a hard time envisioning this all in my head.
I am trying to figure out is one of the three visitors truly Jesus Christ. Everything I have read disputes this. I would love to know is this just derived from the content or do we have other evidence?
Hello! I can never figure out how to comment on podcasts, so I came here. Part 1 of this episode seems to be missing from the Apple podcast list. It goes straight from Favorites with Dr. Lee to Part 2 of this episode. Thanks!
When our teenage son took his own life, a month had passed and I realized we were coming up to the two month mark...two months since he'd died. How can I do this, I thought, it hasn't even been 2 months and it feels like a year...how can I do two years? Ten?
As had become my custom, I went straight to my room to kneel and pray. "Heavenly Father, how can I do this? I can't do this." The Spirit brought to my mind the account of Lot and his wife leaving Sodom. The Spirit said very clearly, "LOOK FORWARD. LOOK FORWARD."
Since that day, I have stopped marking time...everything I rejoice in is AHEAD, FORWARD.
The Lord has done mighty things to strengthen and comfort us!
I started to cry for you. I'm so glad the Lord helped you.
Bless you. This comment has given me strength I sorely needes!
How they treated their guests in the middle east according to Dr. Peterson is still true today. When we were on patrols in Afghanistan and if we stopped at a friendly Afghan village, they would in fact treat us like Odesius. They gave us all the food and water they had. Even though we had more than them, they had tremendous respect for their guests.
I do enjoy and benefit from your podcasts every week. Thank you for your insight and for bringing in scholars for us to hear. I would like to present another idea for Lot's wife, though. I'm afraid that I have always- and I mean always- felt great compassion for her. She was a mother and probably also a grandmother. We know that she had at least 2 married daughters, as it mentions that Lot tried to convince his sons-in-law to join him in leaving the city. Those poor daughters had no rights to leave and go with their parents, whether or not they wanted to. And if there were children, those little ones would also have been compelled to stay. Putting myself in Mrs. Lot's "sandals", I can't imagine leaving my girls and my grandbabies in Sodom. If the angels had forcefully removed me, I seriously doubt I would have been able to stay put. I'm sure I would have been willing to risk my life in order to try to rush back and carry away any of my dear ones that I could, hoping to be quick enough to beat the destruction. I see the pillar of salt as a memorial of her love. I realize that if my version of the story is true, it plays havoc with the wonderful lesson of not looking back But as I have never heard anyone postulate an opposing interpretation for this story, I thought I would share my two cents worth.
I loved his comment about five minutes in, "My confidence is the church is true. There's no criticism out there that's going to be lethal." Thanks so much for this. All the interesting facts like bargaining being very common in the culture or insight into hospitality etc. has been helpful in teaching my family Come Follow Me at home this week. Many thanks!
Good question.
I am not quite sure why people seem to keep saying that the men visiting Abraham were angels and that the Lord was one of them. Here is just one quote: "These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord." (Doctrines of Salvation 1:16 - Joseph Fielding Smith). The Joseph Smith translation makes it clear that they were "three holy men". Bruce R. McConkie talked about these men as the first presidency of the day - I believe Lot and Abraham knew these holy men, and it could be that one of them was Melchizedek. They had the fullness of the priesthood , and were on a mission from the Lord.
All three of you have such a knowledge and depth in the subject matter! I love the way you teach with strength and with humor that is always clean and never mean spirited. You are doing a wonderful service for me and for thousands of other people.
I like the never mean spirited humor too.
Dr. Daniel Peterson was so much fun and knowledge! Thank you for this opportunity!
That Episode went quick. So much good humor that it was delightful and I learned so much from it. Dr. Peterson is a great teacher. Thank you.
It hit me last night listening about Lot's wife (and Nephi's brothers) that their hearts had not left, when they were told not to look back. We left behind our dream house and wonderful life and I have been mourning it ever since. My heart remains back there nearly 2 years ago even though we were doing what the Lord directed us to do. I am not sure how to get over this. And I don't really want to be a pillar of salt!
It sounds like you're mourning a loss, not being bitter. :^)
My mother-in-law has a similar kind of story. She says that one day, she realized that she was coveting their old property, and that realization helped her let go and enjoy the place where they were actually living.
Love this Podcast. I am a Seminary Teacher and find this Podcast a great source for my personal study. Just one point I seek clarification from Dr. Peterson, in verses 1-3. My understanding is that the three "messengers" were men sent and not any one of them were actually the Lord Himself. It seemed to me that Dr. Peterson was suggesting that one was the Lord Himself in some form to make this possible. I reference JST 3a, "Brethren" and the Institute Manual from the Church Website.
Thank you, bro Jenks for clearing that up with JST. Abraham KNEW these holy men. Melchizedek, the first presidency in their day.
This is so amazing! I'm going to have to go through the Old Testament and look for all instances of "Stand before the Lord". That insight that it means that he is part of divine court is a gold nugget of gospel wisdom.
I appreciate your podcasts and have learned a lot. I also like the different perspectives people bring. I do have a concern though. When talking about sections of scripture that have a JST, please bring attention to the JST. With Lots family and interactions, the JST tells a different scenario and it is important.
very true! I agree! The JST was missing this time greatly!
Like several who have commented, I'm surprised that this week's guest, with all of his background and experience, did not bring into his discussion and explanations important information in the JST relevant to difficult issues in these chapters, i.e. Who were the guests that Abraham entertained? And did Lot offer his daughters to the men of Sodom? John made one reference to the JST in his comments, but, otherwise, neither of the hosts filled in the missing JST material, which would have been very helpful and informative. I'm a regular follower of this weekly gospel forum and very appreciative of both the hosts and their esteemed guests. I'm just a little surprised at the important omissions from this week's discussion. Regardless, thanks for all your good efforts!
I watch the end of "Faith of an Observer" often. I have watched many many Hugh Nibley lectures and that's the only time I have seen him get emotional. So wonderful, made me happy to hear Brother Peterson bring it up.
I love these podcasts - I learn so much. I must disagree with “two sides to every story” though - in cases of abuse, there is only one side - the person carrying out the abuse holds the full blame - end of story.
Unless the one side is lying. That’s the point they were making.
I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, so bear with me, I have to play devil's advocate for a moment here. "Are we not all beggars?" Often, abusive and maladaptive behaviors are born of undressed/unhealed trauma, especially childhood trauma, where the people acting out especially hold no accountability for the way they were treated and the "programs" they learned. "In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can't see." Thankfully, the burden of judgement, either condemnation or forgiveness, is the Lord's, and all we have to do is hand it all to Him, and work on appropriate boundaries.
This all says so much about Abraham’s relationship with Heavenly Father, the Lord, before his life on earth. Was he one of the elect by God himself, beloved from a long history of choosing the right before he ever arrived on earth? Was he one that some of us feel the same connection with?
Thank you for your podcasts, for both of you, for your guests
I loved the Witnesses movie too!!! So good.
Why is it that the jst version of ch 18 and 19 seems to disagree with your guest. JST says they were holy men and that three men went to Sodom not two and also jst says lot did nt allow his daughters to be taken. I m confused.
I love these podcasts and listen to every one I can.
I do have one huge thing to say about the Lot story though. It relates to what Lot did with the mob. If we look at the JST in this area, we find that Genesis is very wrong in the account of Job offering his daughters to the mob!!!
JST Genesis19:11 Wherefore they said unto the man, we will have the men, and thy daughters also; and we will do with them as seemeth us good.
JST Genesis19:13. And Lot said, Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, plead with my Brethren that I may not bring them out unto you; and ye shall not do unto them as seemeth good in your eyes;
I can’t believe nobody seems to have picked this up. It is a total turn about on the Genesis account of the incident.
This is so good! I love the three of you guys together. Thank you all so much for doing these for us.
I appreciate your podcast. I don't concur with Dr. Peterson that a pre mortal Christ sat and ate with Abraham. From Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith: “We are not justified in teaching that our Heavenly Father, with other heavenly persons, came down, dusty and weary, and ate with Abraham. This is not taught in the 18th chapter of Genesis. The first verse of that chapter should read as follows: ‘And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre.’ That is a complete thought. The second part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the Lord’s appearing to Abraham … : ‘And he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him.’ These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:16.)
In the Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 18:23 states definitely that “the angels … were holy men, and were sent forth after the order of God.”
Perhaps I misunderstood him..? Thanks brethren. 😊
Wonderful discussion. I also remember hearing Hugh Nibley's tender description of Abraham receiving the answer to his fervent prayer. Dr Peterson refers to it at 11:00. I spent some time trying to find the original Hugh Nibley clip on "Faith of an Observer". And i did find it near the end. It is as sweet as I remembered it. Thanks for inspiring me to look for it again.
Why was there no mention to JST translation in chapter 18: 1-3? Clearly states messengers?
I go by the rule that there are 3 sides to each story: yours, mine, and the truth.
In my other study this week it said there were three holy men probably leaders of the religious community. Someone else said they were from the area of Enoch but almost all of them said it definitely wasn’t Jehovah or Heavenly Father or the Lord with a capital L. They went out of their way to say those are completely different thoughts even though the sentences are close together. I don’t know … can someone explain that?
I love listening to your podcasts, and my testimony of the Gospel and God’s plan for us, has been strengthened, as well as more knowledgeable, because of you and your guests. I do feel, though, that you have a responsibility to correct when something mentioned goes against what Modern Prophets have said. The JST and the Institute Manual for the Old Testament, concerning Lot’s daughters, as well as the 3 visitors to Abraham and Lot are different than what was brought out on your show. Concerning the 3 visitors, the Institute Manual says;
“We are not justified in teaching that our Heavenly Father, with other heavenly persons, came down, dusty and weary, and ate with Abraham. This is not taught in the 18th chapter of Genesis. The first verse of that chapter should read as follows: ‘And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre.’ That is a complete thought. The second part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the Lord’s appearing to Abraham … : ‘And he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him.’ These three men were mortals. They had bodies and were able to eat, to bathe, and sit and rest from their weariness. Not one of these three was the Lord.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:16.)
In the Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 18:23 states definitely that “the angels … were holy men, and were sent forth after the order of God.”
Since the TH-cam videos and podcasts go throughout the world, it might be advantageous to you to make sure that everything said, is pretty accurate, or that you try to bring out the Prophectic corrections in your closing remarks. Keep up the good work!
I don’t know how accurate it is, but I have read that “turning into a pillar of salt” is a Hebrew idiom for suffering a stroke.
Interesting
Wow! Just listened to Holland's "Remember Lot's Wife." So powerful!
Lot and his daughters get a re write in the JST ... I think we get our KJ Bible through medieval perspective of the royal court of king James... Much prefer and understand the JST version of the story.
I like to know how his testimony of the gospel strengthen after studying the various eastern religions and reading many anti-mormon articles?
Wonderful discussion!
Love this, thank you!
You guys should put a link to your guests books or websites etc in your show notes
Amazing! As always I learned so much. Thank you.
I think that it would be helpful for people to study the work of Rene Girard. He had studied every work in history and noted that scapegoating and human sacrifice is threaded into every historical experience of EVERY civilization on earth. He became a believer in God by reading the Bible and seeing a different outcome. The Bible put an end to the natural men’s idea of ending conflict through scapegoat, human sacrifice and the mimetic desires of man. God gave us the perfect mimetic personality in Christ and to look within ourselves to solve conflict. It has been a powerful, testimony shift for me to study his ideas and see how God is helping us as a human family to change in a positive direction. We look at the story of Abraham with disgust because we are haunted by the work Jesus Christ on the cross. He helps us see value in the victim in our society and desire to help them and not scorn.
Thanks again.
Hearing Dan Peterson say he’s not sure he really understands the Atonement gives comfort and peace. If he has to work to understand it, then maybe the rest of us aren’t as out of touch as we think we are. 😄
Lot and his family seem wishy washy members. Did they have the oil of conversion? They were notorious for making poor decisions. So how am I doing, how are I doing with strengthening my testimony?
Genesis 13:10 Before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah the plain of Jordan was well watered and lush. Therefore what Dr Peterson experienced was after the destruction. So probably no desert until after the destruction. Also Ezekiel 16:49&50 lists out the sins of Sodom of which committing abominations was just one of six.
Lots wife’s story is very similar to the children of Israel too. They thought it be better to return to Egypt vs following Moses. 🤦🏽♂️ The future is always better than the past. Redemption and The Savior wait for us in the future.
I do not like it when members of the church justify Lot offering his daughters without mentioning the correct translation at the bottom of the page in the JST ☹️ No doubt the 2 visiting angels would have completely expected Lot to give his life before offering his pure daughter's!
"13 And Lot said, Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, plead with my brethren that I may not bring them out unto you; and ye shall not do unto them as seemeth good in your eyes;"
John does mention the JST about 30 minutes into the discussion, very good 🤗
I am confused🤷🏻♀️
Was one of the 3 the Lord? My Seminary Manuel said it was not the Lord. Help me please
Could the two that accompany the Lord in Chapter 18 be destroying angels for Sodom and Gomorrah?
JST Genesis 19 clarifies that Lot did not offer his daughters.
Bruce R. McConkie stated that the reference to Lord is not the Lord. I think this can cause confusion. But, stated here he says it was the Lord.
First off, I love all your podcasts. I listen to them every week.
I also study David J. Ridges “The Old Testament Made Easier”.
This week I found two different statements about who the three messengers were.
Can you please tell me which one is correct.
Dr. Daniel Peterson stated in this podcast that the three messengers were Jesus Christ, possibly Gabriel and another angel.
In David J Ridges he states this
Lot will be visited in Sodom by three holy men. They are referred to in verse 15 as “angels of God, which were holy men.” We do not know who these men were, nor do we know where they came from. One possibility is that they might have come from Melchizedek’s righteous community. Or, they could possibly have come down from the City of Enoch
(which had been translated and taken up-see Genesis 5:24 and Moses 7:69) to minister.
We simply don’t know.
(Page 212 of Old Testament Made Easier part one; by David J. ridges Genesis 19)
Thank you for your help.
Ooooo yeah, the kitchen was outside. Cool idea
I’m confused on the 3 messengers. If I’m understanding correctly Dr. Peterson is saying that one of them is the Lord who stays while the other Terry go on to Sodom. Is that correct? Because the JST corrects Gen 19:1 saying there are 3 angels in Sodom. Are we correct to understand that there were 3 angels as well as Jehovah? Having a hard time envisioning this all in my head.
From what I've heard so far it seems like the JST translations aren't aain point of this, which I also would prefer to hear.
I am trying to figure out is one of the three visitors truly Jesus Christ. Everything I have read disputes this. I would love to know is this just derived from the content or do we have other evidence?
How about David Seely?
This is good Mormon news and I want more of the news
Hello! I can never figure out how to comment on podcasts, so I came here. Part 1 of this episode seems to be missing from the Apple podcast list. It goes straight from Favorites with Dr. Lee to Part 2 of this episode. Thanks!
Yup. I watched here because the Apple Podcasts feed only had part 2.
Is one of the angels God or Christ?
No.