Non-affiliated link: www.silentangel.com/m1/ Darko PODCAST on how streamers can sound different : darko.audio/2022/08/expert-opinion-mark-jenkins-goes-deep-on-digital-audio/
Historically, the reason there is so much confusion over these matters is because when Sony and Phillips laid out the plan for consumer digital audio devices (and those two corporations really did have an outsized influence) they decided to have a digital interface (between say a CD player and an external DAC) be like what people had been used to for decades in stereo (and mono) music playback: just make the digital interface like a hose, a digital version of the familiar analog cable interfaces. To be more specific: instead of using an _asynchronous_ digital interface, like most computer digital interfaces of the time, they devised an interface (SPDIF) that was _unidirectional_ and _isochronous_ . Because other digital audio interfaces also then were devised to be _isochronous_ one then has to worry about timing issues between the source and the DAC. *If Sony and Phillips had decided to make their original interface an **_asynchronous_** digital interface as typical for computer-to-computer networks* you would not have these problems about digital cables (to a DAC) about which some audiophiles obsess. The Internet is by definition asynchronous and don't let someone convince you there are cable problems there. If the interface between DAC and source were asynchronous and packetized, no one would ever have had to worry about jitter, etc.
hi thomas, as a rep for all those who are just entering this audio "hobby," i would love to see something that has hdmi arc (optional) and chromecast as well, please. we're ok with streaming from TH-cam music at highest quality setting, not even considering the visual aspect, although it does seem like I'm the only one who loves music videos😍 and since you were talking about subscription pricing, TH-cam premium at 12 looneys is an excellent deal, don't you think? thanks👍🏼
ps: that episode of darko was by far the most advanced having listened to them all! i felt like id have to go back to uni just to fully understand that episode😂
I finally got my hands on an M1T to try last night. It basically sounded precisely as you said it would sound. Compared with my Sonore ultraRendu, it is a little crispier with the highs. I didn't use their Forester PS; I used my Ferrum Hypsos to power it. It is really detailed, dynamic, and transparent. It also goes a little lower, faster, and tighter in the bass. Amazing value, you just have to be careful with the overall tonal balance of the system.
Thank you Thomas. I learned more in 15:28 than in a week of reading reviews and forums. It was wonderful doing a basic comparison between the other streamers. The characteristics you point out regarding the sound and features are what listeners really are looking for, or at least me anyway. Well done sir!
I have the Munich M1T. Have been using it for about 4 months. I agree with your characterization of the sound. It is very clear. I balance that with a DAC and a tube amp which both have a sort of warm sound. I am very happy with the result.
It is a consumer jungle out there. With streamers, I think there are two paths. If you want to just buy something then this review sums it up. Is it reliable, have a simple user interface and sound ok. Write the cheque and be happy. If you want really good sound without wasting tons of money, I think you have to understand the digital stream and choose products that provide the tech you need to reach your goals. A great digital system will have a computer, some form of isolation, a reclocker driven by a low phase noise clock, and feed a DAC via a low loss connection such as I2s. Most of this will be provided by a high end DAC, so the streamer just needs to be basic and not pollute the ground plane. If the DAC does not isolate and reclock, then the streamer needs to provide it.
How to distinguish if a DAC is re-clocking?............................... Advertised DACs don't seem to clearly specify, except if they include "asynchronous" in the description. Correct? How else to determine for sure? And while we're on it, a re-clocking DAC, by necessity, must have a buffer stage of some kind. Correct? Lastly, if watching a movie concert DVD by stripping the HDMI-out audio into a re-clocking buffered DAC, a latency is created between singer's lips to voice? Thanks 🔈🔉🔊
I have the Munich M1T and I agree with your assessment of the sound. I enjoy being able to plug in external hard drives. The VitOS app is great too. Easy to use. I configured the I2S pin out to my Pontus II with ease. Thank you!
I had the iFi Zen Stream and loved it ($600, no video out). I paired it with the Zen DAC V2. It is a fantastic combo for high quality audio. I wanted to utilize a monitor for the UI and watching video so now I use a mini-PC to stream (BeeLink is a great brand). A good one is between $200-$500. I have three rooms hooked up this way. My DACs are SMSL C100, Topping E30 II Dual, and Topping E50 (all MQA compliant for my Tidal streaming account). Love your videos. Thanks!
Thomas you are my favorite person/ personality of all audio gurus! I’m 66 years old, an ex Montrealer that has lived in the US for the last 40 years and I obviously like how Canadian people regard/ evaluate value in a product. I also like that you always refer to your audiophile BUDDIES which I miss as it’s hard to find people to invite over to share this hobby. I also regret that brick and mortar stores have been replaced by online retailers, wasn’t it nice to beable to visit a store to touch and hear the gear? I chuckle when people in the comment section VENT at people like Steve Huff who has a new “fav” of the week and they just spent X dollars on a piece of gear that was the last must have item that changed his world…. I guess you guys all have a flock of followers who you influence, you are the only one who seems to realize that and are cognizant of how you word what you say. So in light of my observations, I like the different flavor YOU bring to the table. Thomas you are the person I would most likely want to meet and spend the day with talking about audio products and music. I’ve been into good audio gear since my dad was an enthusiast and as a kid my buddies enjoyed coming over to listen to our ess rock monitors or the IMF big speakers we had at home with marantz, crown, rogers and Thorens gear…my dad lov d straight ahead jazz and Latin music, I brought Zepplin,fusion and blues into the house as a teen! I guess you guys “are” our audio buddies now…My current group of friends could care less about good sound! Lol FYI, my ref hifi system sounds good enough with Van Alstine m225 monoblocks, his fet valve preamp, a vpi table , rotel cdp and Oppo 205, Eversolo streamer and Vandersteen 2ce speakers with his sub…I s
Sorry it posted before I could add that Is still like to add a nice horn based system with a pair of Cornwalls, and kt88 or el34 tube power. Btw I love your Gallion amp, very cool project. As audio gear enthusiasts We live in an amazing time don’t we !? Thomas thank you for cutting through the white noise of choices, I’d love to be a reviewer when I grow up, I appreciate the hard work you put into this. As a suggestion you would be the ideal person to do a video that sheds some light on audio terminology definitions.
Hey Thomas thanks for tackling this subject. I haven’t pulled the trigger on a streamer for my hi-fi rig. Believe it or not I have a cd only system. I use a transport and I like the sound of the Chord DACs. So like you I just need a “transport” for the stream. I like Quobuz and use it on my phone and pc with IEMs (Truthear HEXA). With a $200 Topping DAC/headphone and the PC holy sh*t the sound is insanely good. The clarity is astonishing, value for money is incredible, might as well just say it. Sometimes the Quobuz version is better than the cd mastering, I don’t know why. I’m looking forward to your assessment of the different options.
Concerning the sreamer as a transport, it is important to see if it has a reclocker built in. The RECLOCKER, for example a Femto inside an ifi Zen Stream, handles the correct timing of the digital sequence, it reduces jitter and that will give much more clarity, more instrument separation, clearer voices, bigger sounstage and improved higher frequencies.
All well and good, but with such buggy OS on it, who cares how it sounds if it is unusable. I returned mine, went with the Pi2 Mercury V2 and loaded up a copy of RoPieeeXL on her and have not looked back. Incredibly stable and plays EVERYTHING I have thrown at it. And not once has it given me any issues. And yes, the Mercury has a clock in it, and so does my Venus II 12th...
Helo Thomas, Qobuz is now available in Canada for less than CAD$11.00 per month. It fully integrates with your Innuos Zenith and actually sounds better (a least to me) than Tidal... You should give it a trial, I personally find it indispensable.
@@ThomasAndStereo Amazon Music HD (high res) has it for like $100/year on top of your Amazon Prime subscription (which I will get regardless of their Music offering)… The challenge with Amazon Music is very few streamers supports it natively… surprisingly, WiiM does and I could not be happier when used with an external DAC. I never understood streamers in the multi thousand dollar price points…
Streaming has come a long way since it’s inception. Anyone who just dismisses it without checking it out with an open mind (and the right equipment) is being shortsighted. I’ve had a Gustard R26 for a while now and streaming directly through it via Roon. I was quite happy with that setup. Then I felt I should check out the Eversolo because of its versatility. I connected it to my R26 is usb and was surprised that a streamer could improve the sound quality. I had a friend over who agreed with me. Look I’m no scientist but I heard what I heard.,
Man that Gallion would look good with that brushed metal:) would be cool if somebody would come up with interchangeable front plates . Pimp your ride kinda thing:)
I think the main reason for me, right before the time to spend with building my own server, is I do not want to plug and pray :), thank you for the review
@@andrehendrik £29.99 for a Chromecast streamer via WiFi gives me 16bit 44.1 khz which is CD quality direct from the flac/ wav files on my phone. Versus the notion of "king of value " at £850
@@sbwlearning1372 Understand your point but many audiophiles are not going to be satisfied with that. How is the SQ of Chromecast streamer? Can it be hooked up with local USB storage devices or NAS? Value propersition is not the only thing here.
The intro logic is impeccable. I use the same sliding perspective reasoning in my own HiFi purchasing decisions. $1,700 turntable with a $22 cartridge anyone? LOL
i heard the Silent Angel M1T streamer with a Rega Elex mk4 and the ATC SCM 7 at a dealer in Bangkok and ended up buying all of them. better than the Node 2i and has i2s as well
@@ThomasAndStereo was gonna mention that. Would be cool to make front plates that the customer could remove ( magnets) and make five or six plates for it. A pimp my ride kinda thing. Buy all six!
Hi Thomas, nice review. You should get your neighbor IanCanada to built a Raspberry Pi based streamer/transport for you to test. I built one last year and never looked back. It transformed my system.
It is actually very easy. I built the one where you just stack boards on top of one another using a PurePi power supply, a FiFO Q7 and a TransportPi MKII. Just make sure you get the tall standoff pins to avoid the clocks on the Q7 from touching the digital output board. Mike On Audio has a nice tutorial on how to setup volumio on a Raspberry Pi.
Hey Thomas your channel is great. All due respect 3 questions: 1. Shouldn’t you have used i2s for the review for best fidelity? 2. Does that orbiter os look suspiciously like a modified Volumio? 3. On the internals picture, is that a raspberry pi inside that device? Thanks for the review dude.
1) one of my friend who is into i2s took most of my DAC and streamer to try and he said interestingly, in some cases USB is better than i2s. 2) Maybe but I remember voluminous is completely different. 3) I think it is hence my comment on not all of us has the time and expertise to build one.
Not to belabour the issue but the dac you used in the video clearly had an hdmi/i2s free socket. The software is called Volumio but I will give the orbiter os the benefit of a doubt. Also, if you agree that there is a raspberry pi inside the Munich wouldn’t it be worth a mention? Finally you used the usb right out of the pi portion of the device, so it looks like we are listening to a raspberry pi output from usb. All that praise from a raspberry pi output. Thank you for responding Thomas.
@@gerryb5459 I made a video on Volumio Streamer long ago. So I am saying it based on using the Volumio software a long time ago. I even was asking questions to the actual designer of Volumio and from memory, the interface looks very different. Maybe they have the same engine but I don't know. Yes, most of the DAC today have I2S, that is why my friend was able to test the DACs with I2S and then report back to me. I don't know enough about raspberry pi to talk about it, for example, I remember there were different versions of it, some have better audio boards, and so forth. Another question I have is, is the M1 more than just a raspberry pi. Whatever tweak they have done to it, is it enough to raise the performance beyond the raspberry pi? If that is the case, to call it a raspberry pi would imply one should expect the performance of a raspberry pi. Unless I have one in-house, I really don't know. I was conscious about this issue so I simply mentioned that one can buy a raspberry pi while others who don't have the time to build a raspberry pi, can buy this.
Wiim Mini + Pontus II + Magnepan = Fabulous. Where is the point of diminishing returns with the higher and much higher priced streamers? Would really like to know.
@@ThomasAndStereo From what I have heard for all music content about 80% is streamed with CDs and LPs splitting the rest with a small contingent of cassette listeners. I think the future is already here.
why buying the M1 if I use an external DAC? Waste of money? and the B2 - B1 models seem very limited (192 KH and Amazon connect at 44.1Khz???). I probably missed something... I am looking for a good streamer without DAC...
I've used an iPad mini as my streaming transport for a couple years now but never seen an audiophile reviewer even talk about it, or even try it as a 'control' in an A-B test with a HiFi streamer, which I think is a shame. Beautiful big display (compared to dedicated streamers), touch screen, and sounds great in combination with my Luxman DAC (which does all the clocking). One of the reasons I got into HiFi was the equipment looks and feels serious, well-made, etc, and all the streamers under £5k look cheap to me. Just my personal opinion! (If I was more conspiracy-minded I'd say reviewers don't touch it because their websites receive a lot of ad revenue from streaming manufacturers and if it got out that it was just as good they'd be putting their livelihoods at risk.)
Thomas, if you are getting into the streamer racket, how about a review of the Pi2 Mercury V2? Not much out there on it, I own one, but would be nice to get your perspective. I removed the Volumio software off it, buggy as hell. I installed RoPieeeXL, a Roon Bridge, or a bridge for anything you throw at it,. I feed the Mercury with a Mac mini via ethernet. No wifi... I did much more to the network and power supply, too much to list. But, the sound is incredible. Would really appreciate a serious review of this amazing little streamer.
The $25 per month being too much argument doesn’t do it for me. Unless you hear the same vinyl albums over and over again most of us spend more on vinyls per month… Just bought an XTC album is was 30
Hey Thomas, could you please expound More on that white/silver power cable? Is that a Silent Angel cable or another Mfg’s offering? Also, I’m assuming that the difference made when using that particular cable was very apparent?
What you're describing, streaming from a service with a reoccurring fee via the internet should be referred to as Internet Streaming. If you store music files locally, normally FLAC, and sending them to your audio system via an Ethernet cable you are also streaming. Anytime the music is arriving at your system via Ethernet you are streaming! A distinction should be made between Internet Streaming and Streaming from local storage (NAS or HD) which, in general, sounds better than Internet Streaming. I assume this difference in SQ is due to the compression Internet Streaming companies use on their files to reduce the storage space and the bandwidth required to transmit the files. BTW, he quality of your streamer/bridge and data switches can have a huge impact on the SQ as reducing the noise on your network feed is crucial in achieving good SQ. That's why sending audio files to your system via USB directly from an off-the-shelf computer yields such poor results.
You are 100% correct about internet vs local streaming. Regarding the bridge part, I have heard different switch and so forth at my friend's place nd man...I will not say you are wrong because I need more testing to be sure at my home.
I found this a bit confusing. Anyway I’m happy with my Bluesound Node using Tidal CD quality which costs about $12 a month. I still have Apple Music too which is another $12 a month but I’m only keeping that going as a backup service. I’m using an external DAC because the DAC in the node is not as good as the DAC in my amp.
Anyone know how this compares to the Eversolo DMP A6 when used as player/transport only, no streaming as I play music only from ext hdd via usb to Denafrips Iris reclocker to Newontech 07 or Pontus II DAC?
🙋♂️GOOD TO HEAR 👂 FROM YOU,THANKS THOMAS, FOR SHARING THE DETAILS FOR THE DIFFERENT TASTES … but HATE is a very strong word 😅😁 WHAT IF YOU ENJOY BOTH CHOCOLATE 🍫 AND WASABI ICE CREAM 🍨😋💚💚💚
Was thinking of streamer but im happy with cd for now but I watched one of your older videos about the Billie amp which I own the 1.5 billie and you are talking about upgrading it with a power amp into the preamp of the billie ... what kind of Poweramp would you suggest for the billie and what can i expect? Is there any used type of power amp arounnd 2000 dollers to look for? Well thank you very much
You can expect a bigger soundstage, more dynamics, more bass, well you get the idea. It all depends on your taste if you want a class AB, A or D amp to go with it,.
Thanks, I have no idea how that works, I set it up and have not gone to that store at all. can you email me at thomas.tan@galion-audio.com so I can personally keep track of it with you?
Hi, i have a question about the software for streamers. Im looking for a new set up. Floorstanding speakers, tube amplifier and a streamer.... but a streamer.... there is a lot. But how about the software. Is it easy? I was looking and i found a streamer. Advance paris WTX streamtubes. A lot of people are complaining about the software. Like after a end of every song a *bang*. And its a softwareproblem. How is the software of other streamers? Is it easy in use, etc?
To stream it requires that I get a wi fi connection. And since I live in a very rural area, it requires a dish satellite subscription at aprox. 80 dollars a month (not the best service but the only service available). Then, of course, it requires a subscription to a music streaming service (more dollars per month). And it requires the purchase of a streamer. So, is it worth it to stream or put that money into a growing cd collection? To stream or not stream... But there are advantages of living in the middle of nowhere, I can play my cds as loud as I want and there is no one to complain.
I wonder which streamer has the most stable streaming capability over WIFI I have Zenstream and it sometimes drop off over wifi, especially the first 30 mins when i turn it on
Well I use Apple music from the phone and BT in to neo iDSD that I can take it outside with a 10A phone powerbank. On my sistem I use Pi2AES 2.0 powered with a Jcat liniar PSU and a hi quality, real glass, optical cable with files store on the 1TB sd card so all there will be no USB in the chain, and that is for when I just listening to music, instead of just having a pipe, a coffe and just have some music to go with.
I pay for TH-cam and Tidal. I feel the same Thomas. I can go a long time without using Tidal ( albums) . It tickles the back of my neck when I think about it , but it’s a necessity:) help me!
If you are looking at the stream, it uses Volumio for an OS. I would give Volumio a serious look before you spend the money on the ifi. I found the Volumio software to be very problematic. It crashed, it would not play friendly with much of anything I threw at it, like nothing. This is pretty much the same software that came preloaded on my Pi2 Mercury V2 streamer. Also the same that came on the Zen stream that I returned, the ifi version, but still Volumio. I pulled the Volumio software off of my Mercury streamer and installed RoPieeeXL and have not looked back. If not for the option to run my own software on the Mercury, I would have sent it back just like I did the Zen Stream.
No dac ! But i could agrue either way 😆 outdated dac/closest signal path less cables (less coloration) P.S. Galion has such low noise unreal its a tube amp !
Audiophiles that poo poo streaming are not really being fair -they might have a $10000 system then get a blue sound node and plug it into a cheap ISP router and say it's no good. Streaming is network dependant so you have to choose your network components accordingly just like you do with the rest of your system.
Too right. If it's not expensive it gets frowned at by some of the audiophile community. I have a seven box Esoteric Grandioso stack worth over $200K and Magico M3 speakers. I use a Playstation PS3 to stream Spotify Connect to the Grandioso - the PS3 is my preferred listening source. The sound quality is simply incredible. Any audiophile who wants to poo poo that is ignorant and needs to listen for themselves.
Am I the only one who thinks this video ended prematurely? Where are the comparisons with the Matrix and the Naim unit showed? And of course the comparison to the noisy standard computer.
you are allowed to do both. If you're really into music and want to discover new music and listen to it on the go, in the car etc then streaming is your friend.
I’ve got Amazon Music HD..and a decent internet speed and bandwidth. So …a Wiim pro streamer and and a Topping E50 DAC …and I’m good. Multi Kilobuck digital sources are moot ..it’s always been about the quality of the playback / output of the DAC analog output..feeding your pre amp ..or whatever. That being said, a quality piece of gear with nice build quality and functionality is always appreciated. Take care Thomas .👍🍕☕️
Enjoy your $25 monthly rental fees (streaming) while you can because prices will keep going up. The current model is not sustainable. Most artists make next to nothing unless they are Taylor Swift. But hey, who cares, as long as people can have all the music in the world for next to nothing, that's all that matters.
My theory is that streamers sound different as transports because they do extra processing of they really shouldn’t be doing. Filters, digital volume control, up sampling. Sample rate conversion etc… if they just took the input dumped it in to a large enough ram buffer and read from that to the dac you won’t be able to tell the different. Assuming there are no grounding issues.
$25/month? Lol! I did NOT subscribe when it was $10--$12. Wife was NOT on board at that price. And, as time passes the PRICE RISES and Rises and Rises! I don't even buy coffee most of the time since I can make it for FAR less. Cheap? Absolutely!
I have had a few streamers and still use one, however for sound quality I find a good cd transport superior to streaming. ( this includes so called higher resolution streaming from Qobuz. I believe the way in which a cd transport can extract the digital signal superior. You will find others have come to similar conclusions. Anyway there is no wrong or right when it comes to audio:)
It's like you don't know that most audio streams over the internet use lossy compressed files. Recently (Qobuz in particular, but also Apple and Amazon) have offered non-lossy music files.
@@ThomasAndStereo the same thing a $20k power cord can do compared to a cheap one, the exact same. Measurements and data matter. Anything else is placebo
Non-affiliated link: www.silentangel.com/m1/
Darko PODCAST on how streamers can sound different : darko.audio/2022/08/expert-opinion-mark-jenkins-goes-deep-on-digital-audio/
Historically, the reason there is so much confusion over these matters is because when Sony and Phillips laid out the plan for consumer digital audio devices (and those two corporations really did have an outsized influence) they decided to have a digital interface (between say a CD player and an external DAC) be like what people had been used to for decades in stereo (and mono) music playback: just make the digital interface like a hose, a digital version of the familiar analog cable interfaces.
To be more specific: instead of using an _asynchronous_ digital interface, like most computer digital interfaces of the time, they devised an interface (SPDIF) that was _unidirectional_ and _isochronous_ .
Because other digital audio interfaces also then were devised to be _isochronous_ one then has to worry about timing issues between the source and the DAC.
*If Sony and Phillips had decided to make their original interface an **_asynchronous_** digital interface as typical for computer-to-computer networks* you would not have these problems about digital cables (to a DAC) about which some audiophiles obsess.
The Internet is by definition asynchronous and don't let someone convince you there are cable problems there.
If the interface between DAC and source were asynchronous and packetized, no one would ever have had to worry about jitter, etc.
hi thomas, as a rep for all those who are just entering this audio "hobby," i would love to see something that has hdmi arc (optional) and chromecast as well, please. we're ok with streaming from TH-cam music at highest quality setting, not even considering the visual aspect, although it does seem like I'm the only one who loves music videos😍
and since you were talking about subscription pricing, TH-cam premium at 12 looneys is an excellent deal, don't you think?
thanks👍🏼
ps: that episode of darko was by far the most advanced having listened to them all! i felt like id have to go back to uni just to fully understand that episode😂
@@goodforwatch Yeah, great episode.
I finally got my hands on an M1T to try last night. It basically sounded precisely as you said it would sound. Compared with my Sonore ultraRendu, it is a little crispier with the highs. I didn't use their Forester PS; I used my Ferrum Hypsos to power it. It is really detailed, dynamic, and transparent. It also goes a little lower, faster, and tighter in the bass. Amazing value, you just have to be careful with the overall tonal balance of the system.
Thank you Thomas. I learned more in 15:28 than in a week of reading reviews and forums. It was wonderful doing a basic comparison between the other streamers. The characteristics you point out regarding the sound and features are what listeners really are looking for, or at least me anyway. Well done sir!
Check out my latest video on the matrix Sabre streamer.
I have the Munich M1T. Have been using it for about 4 months. I agree with your characterization of the sound. It is very clear. I balance that with a DAC and a tube amp which both have a sort of warm sound. I am very happy with the result.
I appreciate all formats. If it gets music to my speakers and sounds good enough, I'm groovin'.
It is a consumer jungle out there.
With streamers, I think there are two paths. If you want to just buy something then this review sums it up. Is it reliable, have a simple user interface and sound ok. Write the cheque and be happy.
If you want really good sound without wasting tons of money, I think you have to understand the digital stream and choose products that provide the tech you need to reach your goals. A great digital system will have a computer, some form of isolation, a reclocker driven by a low phase noise clock, and feed a DAC via a low loss connection such as I2s. Most of this will be provided by a high end DAC, so the streamer just needs to be basic and not pollute the ground plane. If the DAC does not isolate and reclock, then the streamer needs to provide it.
Oh thanks for sharing.
How to distinguish if a DAC is re-clocking?...............................
Advertised DACs don't seem to clearly specify, except if they include "asynchronous" in the description. Correct? How else to determine for sure?
And while we're on it, a re-clocking DAC, by necessity, must have a buffer stage of some kind. Correct?
Lastly, if watching a movie concert DVD by stripping the HDMI-out audio into a re-clocking buffered DAC, a latency is created between singer's lips to voice?
Thanks 🔈🔉🔊
I have the Munich M1T and I agree with your assessment of the sound. I enjoy being able to plug in external hard drives. The VitOS app is great too. Easy to use. I configured the I2S pin out to my Pontus II with ease. Thank you!
Totally agree! Now I just need to test the I2S.
@@ThomasAndStereo for real!
Have you used the ifi streamer? Im wondering which is best for sound quality.
Curious… why I2S vs toslink/SPIDIF unless you are streaming DSD’s as DSD’s are not outputted on TosLink nor SPIDIF ???
@@edwinsprojects7039 I have not used the Zen stream.
I tested this unit with my PS Audio DSD Dac using I2S interface and it sounded excellent
I had the iFi Zen Stream and loved it ($600, no video out). I paired it with the Zen DAC V2. It is a fantastic combo for high quality audio.
I wanted to utilize a monitor for the UI and watching video so now I use a mini-PC to stream (BeeLink is a great brand). A good one is between $200-$500. I have three rooms hooked up this way. My DACs are SMSL C100, Topping E30 II Dual, and Topping E50 (all MQA compliant for my Tidal streaming account). Love your videos. Thanks!
Thomas you are my favorite person/ personality of all audio gurus! I’m 66 years old, an ex Montrealer that has lived in the US for the last 40 years and I obviously like how Canadian people regard/ evaluate value in a product. I also like that you always refer to your audiophile BUDDIES which I miss as it’s hard to find people to invite over to share this hobby. I also regret that brick and mortar stores have been replaced by online retailers, wasn’t it nice to beable to visit a store to touch and hear the gear? I chuckle when people in the comment section VENT at people like Steve Huff who has a new “fav” of the week and they just spent X dollars on a piece of gear that was the last must have item that changed his world….
I guess you guys all have a flock of followers who you influence, you are the only one who seems to realize that and are cognizant of how you word what you say.
So in light of my observations, I like the different flavor YOU bring to the table. Thomas you are the person I would most likely want to meet and spend the day with talking about audio products and music.
I’ve been into good audio gear since my dad was an enthusiast and as a kid my buddies enjoyed coming over to listen to our ess rock monitors or the IMF big speakers we had at home with marantz, crown, rogers and Thorens gear…my dad lov d straight ahead jazz and Latin music, I brought Zepplin,fusion and blues into the house as a teen!
I guess you guys “are” our audio buddies now…My current group of friends could care less about good sound! Lol
FYI, my ref hifi system sounds good enough with Van Alstine m225 monoblocks, his fet valve preamp, a vpi table , rotel cdp and Oppo 205, Eversolo streamer and Vandersteen 2ce speakers with his sub…I s
Sorry it posted before I could add that Is still like to add a nice horn based system with a pair of Cornwalls, and kt88 or el34 tube power. Btw I love your Gallion amp, very cool project.
As audio gear enthusiasts We live in an amazing time don’t we !? Thomas thank you for cutting through the white noise of
choices, I’d love to be a reviewer when I grow up, I appreciate the hard work you put into this. As a suggestion you would be the ideal person to do a video that sheds some light on audio terminology definitions.
Hey Thomas thanks for tackling this subject. I haven’t pulled the trigger on a streamer for my hi-fi rig. Believe it or not I have a cd only system. I use a transport and I like the sound of the Chord DACs. So like you I just need a “transport” for the stream. I like Quobuz and use it on my phone and pc with IEMs (Truthear HEXA). With a $200 Topping DAC/headphone and the PC holy sh*t the sound is insanely good. The clarity is astonishing, value for money is incredible, might as well just say it. Sometimes the Quobuz version is better than the cd mastering, I don’t know why. I’m looking forward to your assessment of the different options.
Nice review! I've tried the whole stack. The Munich M1T, Bonn N8 and the F1 LPSU. Its pretty good for the price.
Very nice!
Concerning the sreamer as a transport, it is important to see if it has a reclocker built in. The RECLOCKER, for example a Femto inside an ifi Zen Stream, handles the correct timing of the digital sequence, it reduces jitter and that will give much more clarity, more instrument separation, clearer voices, bigger sounstage and improved higher frequencies.
All well and good, but with such buggy OS on it, who cares how it sounds if it is unusable. I returned mine, went with the Pi2 Mercury V2 and loaded up a copy of RoPieeeXL on her and have not looked back. Incredibly stable and plays EVERYTHING I have thrown at it. And not once has it given me any issues. And yes, the Mercury has a clock in it, and so does my Venus II 12th...
Grimm MU1 is ideal
Helo Thomas, Qobuz is now available in Canada for less than CAD$11.00 per month. It fully integrates with your Innuos Zenith and actually sounds better (a least to me) than Tidal... You should give it a trial, I personally find it indispensable.
Yes I am signing up soon, thanks.
Streaming is so practical... Once I find something I really enjoy, then I get the media (usually SACD or Vinyl)
Yup....but it is $25 a miminth..grrrrr....lol
@@ThomasAndStereo Amazon Music HD (high res) has it for like $100/year on top of your Amazon Prime subscription (which I will get regardless of their Music offering)… The challenge with Amazon Music is very few streamers supports it natively… surprisingly, WiiM does and I could not be happier when used with an external DAC. I never understood streamers in the multi thousand dollar price points…
@@ThomasAndStereo which streaming service costs $25? It can be done alot cheaper
A good streamer, "used as streamer only" to a decent DAC = WiiM Pro (149$) or WiiM (99$), user friendly and reliable
Agree.
Streaming has come a long way since it’s inception. Anyone who just dismisses it without checking it out with an open mind (and the right equipment) is being shortsighted. I’ve had a Gustard R26 for a while now and streaming directly through it via Roon. I was quite happy with that setup. Then I felt I should check out the Eversolo because of its versatility. I connected it to my R26 is usb and was surprised that a streamer could improve the sound quality. I had a friend over who agreed with me. Look I’m no scientist but I heard what I heard.,
Thomas, you're so funny. The intro on this review was priceless.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Man that Gallion would look good with that brushed metal:) would be cool if somebody would come up with interchangeable front plates . Pimp your ride kinda thing:)
Thanks, Thomas!! Good job as usual!
You bet!
Internet radio is a cheap man's dream! Good commercial free stations can be found with a minimal amount of digging
Thomas you mentioned the Naim streamer, but no thoughts on it. Be nice to hear your view on it's signature sound!
I think the main reason for me, right before the time to spend with building my own server, is I do not want to plug and pray :), thank you for the review
The Eversolo is now the king of value @ $850
Chromecast £29.99 CD quality ??!
😂😂😂
@@sbwlearning1372 ???? I don't understand your comment
@@andrehendrik £29.99 for a Chromecast streamer via WiFi gives me 16bit 44.1 khz which is CD quality direct from the flac/ wav files on my phone.
Versus the notion of "king of value " at £850
So true, the screen is a big selling point
@@sbwlearning1372 Understand your point but many audiophiles are not going to be satisfied with that. How is the SQ of Chromecast streamer? Can it be hooked up with local USB storage devices or NAS? Value propersition is not the only thing here.
Would be cool to do a comparo of the Munich with the Eversolo, being relatively close in price.
I will be getting one.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yes! Awesome 🙏🏼
The intro logic is impeccable. I use the same sliding perspective reasoning in my own HiFi purchasing decisions. $1,700 turntable with a $22 cartridge anyone? LOL
i heard the Silent Angel M1T streamer with a Rega Elex mk4 and the ATC SCM 7 at a dealer in Bangkok and ended up buying all of them. better than the Node 2i and has i2s as well
Nice!
Love the look of that brushed metal.
Yeah was considering for the upcoming Galion preamp.
@@ThomasAndStereo was gonna mention that. Would be cool to make front plates that the customer could remove ( magnets) and make five or six plates for it. A pimp my ride kinda thing. Buy all six!
Hi Thomas, nice review. You should get your neighbor IanCanada to built a Raspberry Pi based streamer/transport for you to test. I built one last year and never looked back. It transformed my system.
You can actually swap stock clocks and go from highly detailed to warm sounding.
I actually almost built one but realized I have no time just as I was going to hit the check out button.
It is actually very easy. I built the one where you just stack boards on top of one another using a PurePi power supply, a FiFO Q7 and a TransportPi MKII. Just make sure you get the tall standoff pins to avoid the clocks on the Q7 from touching the digital output board. Mike On Audio has a nice tutorial on how to setup volumio on a Raspberry Pi.
@@mariopenzo My brain already exploded reading this :)🤣
Thanks for a great video. 😊
Thanks for watching!
Tom out there dropping $10,000 on a DAC
"Paying for streaming bothers me"
Come on Tom 😂
Thank you 🙏🙏
Hey Thomas your channel is great. All due respect 3 questions:
1. Shouldn’t you have used i2s for the review for best fidelity?
2. Does that orbiter os look suspiciously like a modified Volumio?
3. On the internals picture, is that a raspberry pi inside that device?
Thanks for the review dude.
1) one of my friend who is into i2s took most of my DAC and streamer to try and he said interestingly, in some cases USB is better than i2s. 2) Maybe but I remember voluminous is completely different. 3) I think it is hence my comment on not all of us has the time and expertise to build one.
Not to belabour the issue but the dac you used in the video clearly had an hdmi/i2s free socket. The software is called Volumio but I will give the orbiter os the benefit of a doubt. Also, if you agree that there is a raspberry pi inside the Munich wouldn’t it be worth a mention? Finally you used the usb right out of the pi portion of the device, so it looks like we are listening to a raspberry pi output from usb. All that praise from a raspberry pi output. Thank you for responding Thomas.
@@gerryb5459 I made a video on Volumio Streamer long ago. So I am saying it based on using the Volumio software a long time ago. I even was asking questions to the actual designer of Volumio and from memory, the interface looks very different. Maybe they have the same engine but I don't know. Yes, most of the DAC today have I2S, that is why my friend was able to test the DACs with I2S and then report back to me. I don't know enough about raspberry pi to talk about it, for example, I remember there were different versions of it, some have better audio boards, and so forth. Another question I have is, is the M1 more than just a raspberry pi. Whatever tweak they have done to it, is it enough to raise the performance beyond the raspberry pi? If that is the case, to call it a raspberry pi would imply one should expect the performance of a raspberry pi. Unless I have one in-house, I really don't know. I was conscious about this issue so I simply mentioned that one can buy a raspberry pi while others who don't have the time to build a raspberry pi, can buy this.
Thank you Thomas
Wiim Mini + Pontus II + Magnepan = Fabulous. Where is the point of diminishing returns with the higher and much higher priced streamers? Would really like to know.
It all depends on your disposable income and expectations.
Denafrips is bringing out their own streamer.
I think streaming is the future.
@@ThomasAndStereo From what I have heard for all music content about 80% is streamed with CDs and LPs splitting the rest with a small contingent of cassette listeners. I think the future is already here.
why buying the M1 if I use an external DAC? Waste of money? and the B2 - B1 models seem very limited (192 KH and Amazon connect at 44.1Khz???). I probably missed something... I am looking for a good streamer without DAC...
I get it, but Amazon and Apple music can be had for free in the US with Prime or a Verizon account.
Darn I wonder if they have it here in Canada.
I've used an iPad mini as my streaming transport for a couple years now but never seen an audiophile reviewer even talk about it, or even try it as a 'control' in an A-B test with a HiFi streamer, which I think is a shame. Beautiful big display (compared to dedicated streamers), touch screen, and sounds great in combination with my Luxman DAC (which does all the clocking). One of the reasons I got into HiFi was the equipment looks and feels serious, well-made, etc, and all the streamers under £5k look cheap to me. Just my personal opinion! (If I was more conspiracy-minded I'd say reviewers don't touch it because their websites receive a lot of ad revenue from streaming manufacturers and if it got out that it was just as good they'd be putting their livelihoods at risk.)
Thomas, if you are getting into the streamer racket, how about a review of the Pi2 Mercury V2? Not much out there on it, I own one, but would be nice to get your perspective. I removed the Volumio software off it, buggy as hell. I installed RoPieeeXL, a Roon Bridge, or a bridge for anything you throw at it,. I feed the Mercury with a Mac mini via ethernet. No wifi... I did much more to the network and power supply, too much to list. But, the sound is incredible. Would really appreciate a serious review of this amazing little streamer.
The $25 per month being too much argument doesn’t do it for me. Unless you hear the same vinyl albums over and over again most of us spend more on vinyls per month… Just bought an XTC album is was 30
Hey Thomas, could you please expound
More on that white/silver power cable? Is that a Silent Angel cable or another Mfg’s offering? Also, I’m assuming that the difference made when using that particular cable was very apparent?
What you're describing, streaming from a service with a reoccurring fee via the internet should be referred to as Internet Streaming. If you store music files locally, normally FLAC, and sending them to your audio system via an Ethernet cable you are also streaming. Anytime the music is arriving at your system via Ethernet you are streaming! A distinction should be made between Internet Streaming and Streaming from local storage (NAS or HD) which, in general, sounds better than Internet Streaming. I assume this difference in SQ is due to the compression Internet Streaming companies use on their files to reduce the storage space and the bandwidth required to transmit the files. BTW, he quality of your streamer/bridge and data switches can have a huge impact on the SQ as reducing the noise on your network feed is crucial in achieving good SQ. That's why sending audio files to your system via USB directly from an off-the-shelf computer yields such poor results.
You are 100% correct about internet vs local streaming. Regarding the bridge part, I have heard different switch and so forth at my friend's place nd man...I will not say you are wrong because I need more testing to be sure at my home.
I found this a bit confusing.
Anyway I’m happy with my Bluesound Node using Tidal CD quality which costs about $12 a month. I still have Apple Music too which is another $12 a month but I’m only keeping that going as a backup service. I’m using an external DAC because the DAC in the node is not as good as the DAC in my amp.
Anyone know how this compares to the Eversolo DMP A6 when used as player/transport only, no streaming as I play music only from ext hdd via usb to Denafrips Iris reclocker to Newontech 07 or Pontus II DAC?
so good to finally enjoy thomas & stereo content
Thanks! I finally got my lazy ass off the coach.
As long as you stream the BEST = QOBUZ (24bit/192kHz)
That is what Mr.Quad told me, the did some serious AB test one afternoon.
🙋♂️GOOD TO HEAR 👂 FROM YOU,THANKS THOMAS, FOR SHARING THE DETAILS FOR THE DIFFERENT TASTES … but HATE is a very strong word 😅😁 WHAT IF YOU ENJOY BOTH CHOCOLATE 🍫 AND WASABI ICE CREAM 🍨😋💚💚💚
Then you need to buy all of them!
@@ThomasAndStereo 👍😋💚💚💚
Was thinking of streamer but im happy with cd for now but
I watched one of your older videos about the Billie amp which I own the 1.5 billie and you are talking about upgrading it with a power amp into the preamp of the billie ... what kind of Poweramp would you suggest for the billie and what can i expect? Is there any used type of power amp arounnd 2000 dollers to look for?
Well thank you very much
You can expect a bigger soundstage, more dynamics, more bass, well you get the idea. It all depends on your taste if you want a class AB, A or D amp to go with it,.
@@ThomasAndStereoGreat videos thank you very much.
hi thomas...i ordered a mug from your store...i didn't receive an email showing my purchase and a tracking number?
Thanks, I have no idea how that works, I set it up and have not gone to that store at all. can you email me at thomas.tan@galion-audio.com so I can personally keep track of it with you?
Hi, i have a question about the software for streamers. Im looking for a new set up. Floorstanding speakers, tube amplifier and a streamer.... but a streamer.... there is a lot. But how about the software. Is it easy? I was looking and i found a streamer. Advance paris WTX streamtubes. A lot of people are complaining about the software. Like after a end of every song a *bang*. And its a softwareproblem. How is the software of other streamers? Is it easy in use, etc?
I'm about to cancel Tidal as Pandora and Spotify and are still free.
To stream it requires that I get a wi fi connection. And since I live in a very rural area, it requires a dish satellite subscription at aprox. 80 dollars a month (not the best service but the only service available). Then, of course, it requires a subscription to a music streaming service (more dollars per month). And it requires the purchase of a streamer. So, is it worth it to stream or put that money into a growing cd collection? To stream or not stream...
But there are advantages of living in the middle of nowhere, I can play my cds as loud as I want and there is no one to complain.
Congrats on able to blast your system and thanks for sharing.
Put out more videos, Thomas!😊
Working on it!
Thomas, do you still plan a review of the Gustard R26 dac???
Marc in Ottawa
❤❤
I wonder which streamer has the most stable streaming capability over WIFI
I have Zenstream and it sometimes drop off over wifi, especially the first 30 mins when i turn it on
They all should be stable. Perhaps some troubleshooting can help you solve the problem from a network perspective.
Well I use Apple music from the phone and BT in to neo iDSD that I can take it outside with a 10A phone powerbank. On my sistem I use Pi2AES 2.0 powered with a Jcat liniar PSU and a hi quality, real glass, optical cable with files store on the 1TB sd card so all there will be no USB in the chain, and that is for when I just listening to music, instead of just having a pipe, a coffe and just have some music to go with.
Nice, thanks for sharing.
Hard drive = the modern day record collection = connection = digital record shop = HAPPY.............................
I pay for TH-cam and Tidal. I feel the same Thomas. I can go a long time without using Tidal ( albums) . It tickles the back of my neck when I think about it , but it’s a necessity:) help me!
How does this compare to ifi Stream for sound quality?
I don't remember using the IFI streamer, sorry.
If you are looking at the stream, it uses Volumio for an OS. I would give Volumio a serious look before you spend the money on the ifi. I found the Volumio software to be very problematic. It crashed, it would not play friendly with much of anything I threw at it, like nothing. This is pretty much the same software that came preloaded on my Pi2 Mercury V2 streamer. Also the same that came on the Zen stream that I returned, the ifi version, but still Volumio. I pulled the Volumio software off of my Mercury streamer and installed RoPieeeXL and have not looked back. If not for the option to run my own software on the Mercury, I would have sent it back just like I did the Zen Stream.
Thanks but unfoirtunatly, no Wi-Fi lan connexion...
No dac ! But i could agrue either way 😆 outdated dac/closest signal path less cables (less coloration)
P.S. Galion has such low noise unreal its a tube amp !
Agreed!
Ho about ifi neo stream with optibox and a farad super3 lps
Audiophiles that poo poo streaming are not really being fair -they might have a $10000 system then get a blue sound node and plug it into a cheap ISP router and say it's no good. Streaming is network dependant so you have to choose your network components accordingly just like you do with the rest of your system.
Too right. If it's not expensive it gets frowned at by some of the audiophile community. I have a seven box Esoteric Grandioso stack worth over $200K and Magico M3 speakers. I use a Playstation PS3 to stream Spotify Connect to the Grandioso - the PS3 is my preferred listening source. The sound quality is simply incredible. Any audiophile who wants to poo poo that is ignorant and needs to listen for themselves.
Am I the only one who thinks this video ended prematurely? Where are the comparisons with the Matrix and the Naim unit showed? And of course the comparison to the noisy standard computer.
Yeah, let's just say the M1 was not in the same league as the innuous which is expected since it is 4 times more expensive.
@@ThomasAndStereo okay, anyway I decided to buy an Innuos Zen mk 3 long ago. So I am already served.
@Good Sound You made a good decision, it was way way more organic than most streamers I have tried. The timing is just right as well as many things.
@@ThomasAndStereo big reason was also it's ability to configurate it as UPnP or Roon Server.
@@ThomasAndStereo I hope Galion will offer a Tube Pre amp in near future
How does this compare to the Bluesound NODE X?
Good question, no idea, sorry.
Mano-Ultra
Agree, very well made and hard to beat from my experience.
I don’t understand the point of a streamer when you can get a M1/M2 Mac Mini to run Roon. Put the money in your DAC.
If you don't have Roon, a streamer is great since you don't need to boot up a computer.
I will never use a streamer, I done see the point. Rather own the music
you are allowed to do both. If you're really into music and want to discover new music and listen to it on the go, in the car etc then streaming is your friend.
I’ve got Amazon Music HD..and a decent internet speed and bandwidth.
So …a Wiim pro streamer and and a Topping E50 DAC …and I’m good.
Multi Kilobuck digital sources are moot ..it’s always been about the quality of the playback / output of the DAC analog output..feeding your pre amp ..or whatever.
That being said, a quality piece of gear with nice build quality and functionality is always appreciated.
Take care Thomas .👍🍕☕️
Thanks for sharing!
I just use a NUC & DAC.
I would much rather you review gear in your Hi-Fi room than in front of a red wall.
Looks a bit rinky dinky
I'm back Mr.T
That took a while :0😁
Enjoy your $25 monthly rental fees (streaming) while you can because prices will keep going up. The current model is not sustainable. Most artists make next to nothing unless they are Taylor Swift. But hey, who cares, as long as people can have all the music in the world for next to nothing, that's all that matters.
My theory is that streamers sound different as transports because they do extra processing of they really shouldn’t be doing. Filters, digital volume control, up sampling. Sample rate conversion etc… if they just took the input dumped it in to a large enough ram buffer and read from that to the dac you won’t be able to tell the different. Assuming there are no grounding issues.
Check out the podcast I link to.
@@ThomasAndStereo I 99% agree with him. I was thinking toslink out from the player/streamer.
@@jaakanshorter I think it was addressed the issue with toslink, I think it has the most jitter? It has been a while so I don't remember.
I'm dying for a piss, back in a minute
Huh...ok.
Couldn’t you wait for the ads?
@@chewy560 Zero
$25/month? Lol! I did NOT subscribe when it was $10--$12. Wife was NOT on board at that price. And, as time passes the PRICE RISES and Rises and Rises! I don't even buy coffee most of the time since I can make it for FAR less. Cheap? Absolutely!
You and me think alike.
Your friend thought the quality of streaming was "meh" but buys CDs? Talk about not knowing a thing about technology. Does he think CDs are analog...?
I have had a few streamers and still use one, however for sound quality I find a good cd transport superior to streaming. ( this includes so called higher resolution streaming from Qobuz. I believe the way in which a cd transport can extract the digital signal superior. You will find others have come to similar conclusions. Anyway there is no wrong or right when it comes to audio:)
You might think differently if you listen to what a $30k cd player can do.
It's like you don't know that most audio streams over the internet use lossy compressed files. Recently (Qobuz in particular, but also Apple and Amazon) have offered non-lossy music files.
@@ThomasAndStereo the same thing a $20k power cord can do compared to a cheap one, the exact same. Measurements and data matter. Anything else is placebo
@@TheDanEdwards ...you DO know streaming platforms offer lossless....right? It's as if you don't know this.