@thepezdispenser Like Saving Private Ryan is to expose the brutality of Dday and WW2 Pan's Labyrinths exposes the full horror of the Spanish Civil War.
@Fatpie42 The whole plot twist to the story is, Veidt is revealed to be a superhero because he catches the bullet (that Spectre shoots). Where else in the movie or in the comic does it show that Nite Owl, Rorschach and Silk Spectre have powers? They're just all brawlers, much like Batman.
At the end of Freddy Got Fingered, a film I have never seen, a child runs into a helicopter blade as the culimation to a running joke where he is realistically hurt (a subversion on similar running gags in comedy films). I think most people would call that unnecessary, but I'm a actually not sure, seeing as I apparently wrote a defense if it in my first sentence.
@DomEdits but you don't actually see that happen on screen, watch the scene again the camera cuts away. the reason people think its violent is because of the build up to the see and the use of sound in the film
To my mind "needless violence" is violence that doesn't need to be there because it doesn't serve the story, and is probably there to for the audience to drool over. But Kermode's method is genius.
@SethHesio No i haven't, can you link the video in which he talk about it? I saw possession which was a really intense. Have you seen that? I need to see it again on my own, then i'll be able to form my opinion of it.
you could argue that 300:2 had at least an hour of needless violence but at the same time, I would have walked out of the screening if it didn't have that violence.
It's weird, I can think of quite a few films that have unnecessary nudity and swearing, but I can't think of one that has unnecessary violence. Maybe violence always serves a purpose?
@colonelcabbage I tell you what. I just watched Martyrs (a film that Kermode talks about in another of his vids on here)... have you seen that? Words fail me, it's one of the most intense horror films I've ever seen.
@colonelcabbage I want to get Possession on DVD, I've seena few clips and it looks utterly insane/ brilliant. Especially the leading lady, saw the part where she's screaming in a subway tunnel. Totally intense. Here's the link to Kermode talking about Martyrs
Some of the deaths in New York Ripper! especially the eyeball slicing sequence. You knew the woman was going to be killed - but you didn't need the torture to go with it. Someone once made the point that it's the thought of what might have happened to the person which is always more terrifying than being graphically shown it.
A film I think that went over the top on the gore stakes was 'The Wild Bunch' The story needed the violence because the characters were violent but the gore was at too high a level and probably needless. I think to be needlessy gory it needs to be a good film spoilt by the gore and The Wild Bunch is the closest I can think of.
Part of me would like to say the violence at the end of Django Unchained, but then it had to end like that. I think my problem was that Tarantino seemed to happily dispense with the characterisation he'd spent a couple of hours on in order to trigger the splatterfest at the end. The violence against slaves, meanwhile, was appropriately shocking and hard to watch.
The correct answer is: All violence in movies I don't like. If I don't like the movie with the violence and wouldn't have liked it without the violence, then the violence wasn't necessary, because it didn't change my enjoyment. Needless violence in movies is violence in movies that are needless.
Alien V Predator Requiem was across the line for me, because it ventured into the realm of outright cruelty, seemingly on the part of the film makers, towards pregnant women and children. The violence I had a problem with was also executed witlessly and with a real amount of glee which felt... inappropriate, let's say, in a scene where pregnant women's unborn children was devoured inside them by parasites which had been forced down their throats and then came exploding out.
No not that one, obviously. It's when Nite Owl or Silk Spectre break a goon's elbow right off in some street alley fight scene. It's very unrealistic considering how grounded these characters are. They're not that good at martial arts.
I think the gore in pans labyrinth was quite needless. Didnt contribute with anything and could easily be remowed without harming the film. Atleast thats would i would say, not that i have anything against gore, but didnt think it fitted in the movie.
Maniac with Joe Spinnel. A good idea for a movie.( an indepth look at a serial killer) Badly over done ,with over the top gore and acting, Henry portrait of a serial killer covered similar territory with less gore. but it was a better and much more disturbing film.
@colonelcabbage Totally agree. Spoof films and silly comedies when done right are probably the funniest things you'll ever see. A stupid idea excuted in the right tone can be extremely clever and hilarious. Freddy Got Fingered is in a sense an anti comedy, there's no straight element to it at all... it's stupid and bad on an entirely new level. The lead character doesn't redeem anything he does, but I think it's admirable for its commitment to the cause. It's one big cinematic practical joke.
all the people saying Drive ....nonsense. You missed the whole point - the violence in that was very brief but very horrible and that was a key point in the film...it was supposed to shock you. The film is like a dream that glides along and then suddenly descends into a nightmare very fast. I can think of films with far more violence that while not pointless could be deemed too much.... "I saw the Devil" is a prime example but even then the film is trying to show that revenge is a horrible thing
@HamGreenandEggs Commenting on someone's handwriting is one of the the most asinine endeavors that plagues the most materially absorbed people of this world. Seriously,,, a really bad trait to contain, friend.
@colonelcabbage Freddy Got Fingered and all of Tom Green's antics can be appreciated in a certain post modern affectionate way though no? From a certain perspective it's stupid, needless, grotesque, corrupting and infantile, but from another perspective it's a comment on America in the 21st century, post 9/11.
Drive. Some violence in it was perfectly fine, but after the third crushed skull I and the people I watched it with just got bored. Some violence was necessary for the shock value of the film, but there was simply too much of it. The extra violence made the film boring
@SethHesio I rarely dislike films, but i really felt with Freddy got Fingered that Tom Green wanted to be as annoying as possible. Films can be so bad they're good, but he just found an extra level. Green made the fatal flaw of making an utter stupid and infantile movie, but crucially, with the most annoying and pathetic central character. Films like 'Airplane' and 'Naked Gun', were stupid films, but with likeable characters. So their stupidity is enjoyable and actually rather cleaver.
Watchmen. The gory action served no purpose whatsoever, it was distracting, uncalled for, had no relevance on the story or added any value to the characters and was somehow so unnecessary it didnt help the movie get any cooler, it only made it more annoying.
Is there a follow up video to this?
BAD SANTA. The rather gruesome violence toward the end was completely inconsistent with the tone of the picture.
@thepezdispenser Like Saving Private Ryan is to expose the brutality of Dday and WW2 Pan's Labyrinths exposes the full horror of the Spanish Civil War.
I wish that Mark had continued this discussion with answers and stuff. It would be interesting to see what people said
@Fatpie42 The whole plot twist to the story is, Veidt is revealed to be a superhero because he catches the bullet (that Spectre shoots).
Where else in the movie or in the comic does it show that Nite Owl, Rorschach and Silk Spectre have powers? They're just all brawlers, much like Batman.
At the end of Freddy Got Fingered, a film I have never seen, a child runs into a helicopter blade as the culimation to a running joke where he is realistically hurt (a subversion on similar running gags in comedy films). I think most people would call that unnecessary, but I'm a actually not sure, seeing as I apparently wrote a defense if it in my first sentence.
i remember watching the hostel movies and thinking that the gore just became too much and just needless.
flying brain in the hotel scene in "Drive". (The gore however has a purpose in the the elevator scene at the end of the film.)
I wouldn't really call Hostel 2 a film with unnecessary gore, I would sooner simply call it an unnecessary film.
@DomEdits but you don't actually see that happen on screen, watch the scene again the camera cuts away. the reason people think its violent is because of the build up to the see and the use of sound in the film
To my mind "needless violence" is violence that doesn't need to be there because it doesn't serve the story, and is probably there to for the audience to drool over. But Kermode's method is genius.
@SethHesio No i haven't, can you link the video in which he talk about it?
I saw possession which was a really intense. Have you seen that? I need to see it again on my own, then i'll be able to form my opinion of it.
@DomEdits The genius behind that film was that it was essentially a talky with minimal action/violence yet one scene caused such a stir.
daaaaamn new york times reviewer. you just got kermoded.
The Times isn't the same as the New York Times.
you could argue that 300:2 had at least an hour of needless violence but at the same time, I would have walked out of the screening if it didn't have that violence.
Audition. There really was no NEED for that amount of gore, but it was strangely hypnotic.
It's weird, I can think of quite a few films that have unnecessary nudity and swearing, but I can't think of one that has unnecessary violence. Maybe violence always serves a purpose?
@colonelcabbage I tell you what. I just watched Martyrs (a film that Kermode talks about in another of his vids on here)... have you seen that? Words fail me, it's one of the most intense horror films I've ever seen.
reservoir dogs had needless violence. I felt the only reason its famous is coz sum guy gets his ear cut off
@colonelcabbage I want to get Possession on DVD, I've seena few clips and it looks utterly insane/ brilliant. Especially the leading lady, saw the part where she's screaming in a subway tunnel. Totally intense. Here's the link to Kermode talking about Martyrs
@tubbstarful oh. ho ho... oh god. Good work sir.
Some of the deaths in New York Ripper! especially the eyeball slicing sequence. You knew the woman was going to be killed - but you didn't need the torture to go with it. Someone once made the point that it's the thought of what might have happened to the person which is always more terrifying than being graphically shown it.
My word it's baby Mark!
What level of violence would say Watchmen is in?
I've GOT IT! Empire Strikes Back... where the snow kangaroo (taun taun)'s belly is cut open... did you need that gore? the guts?
I've seen MANY gory films and I can't think of a single one that would answer this question.
I love this.
@SethHesio Not sure that counts, the whole film was needless. I have never been so angry with a film ever.
Can you name a film that is depraving and corrupting but as bloody as mary poppins? So a film in the bottom left corner?
Doesn't Texas Chainsaw Massacre have next to no blood?
clockwork orange
Gummo or Julien Donkey Boy.
Interesting! How about Triumph of the Will. Or Sex Lives of the Potato Men. Or maybe Entourage
Any adaptation of Pollyanna that preserves the source text's advocacy of the violation of personal boundaries...?
Stanley Kubrick felt that Clockwork Orange was nedlessly violent so he removed a scene from Full Metal Jacket in which the Sniper gets beheaded.
Kingsmen is a good example of this.
@ivano1987
It's over the top. But I don't think the gore in hostel is needles.
the devils rejects?
A film I think that went over the top on the gore stakes was 'The Wild Bunch' The story needed the violence because the characters were violent but the gore was at too high a level and probably needless.
I think to be needlessy gory it needs to be a good film spoilt by the gore and The Wild Bunch is the closest I can think of.
Part of me would like to say the violence at the end of Django Unchained, but then it had to end like that. I think my problem was that Tarantino seemed to happily dispense with the characterisation he'd spent a couple of hours on in order to trigger the splatterfest at the end. The violence against slaves, meanwhile, was appropriately shocking and hard to watch.
That had a point to the story. Her exacting revenge on herself as guilt for her sex getting in the way of her baby being killed.
not a japanese pop star. Korean pop star.
very interesting graph you have there though.
Wow. It IS lot harder than I thought.
Rain is a Korean pop star Mark........
smoking aces.. i think this movie might be even better without most of its violence
any troma, movie
more importantly, does that quote at the end mean Marky Mark has started watching the simpsons? i hope so.
@tubbstarful Goddamnit, man, you beat me to it!
Yes... Watchmen. The violence in relation with Rorschach was okay.But with Nite Owl, Dr. Manhattan and Silk Spectre was the gore needless...
Fury
watership down
An Inconvenient Truth had to much Gore in it
The gory films that are deemed to have less worth do provoke an interest to watch even if some are not very good
Rain is Korean not Japanese.
The correct answer is: All violence in movies I don't like. If I don't like the movie with the violence and wouldn't have liked it without the violence, then the violence wasn't necessary, because it didn't change my enjoyment. Needless violence in movies is violence in movies that are needless.
Alien V Predator Requiem was across the line for me, because it ventured into the realm of outright cruelty, seemingly on the part of the film makers, towards pregnant women and children. The violence I had a problem with was also executed witlessly and with a real amount of glee which felt... inappropriate, let's say, in a scene where pregnant women's unborn children was devoured inside them by parasites which had been forced down their throats and then came exploding out.
I haven't seen it, but that sounds pretty bad!
Watership Down
Well if a film is just a vechile for gor, we can call it needlessly gory.
No not that one, obviously. It's when Nite Owl or Silk Spectre break a goon's elbow right off in some street alley fight scene. It's very unrealistic considering how grounded these characters are. They're not that good at martial arts.
I think the gore in pans labyrinth was quite needless. Didnt contribute with anything and could easily be remowed without harming the film. Atleast thats would i would say, not that i have anything against gore, but didnt think it fitted in the movie.
Maniac with Joe Spinnel. A good idea for a movie.( an indepth look at a serial killer) Badly over done ,with over the top gore and acting, Henry portrait of a serial killer covered similar territory with less gore. but it was a better and much more disturbing film.
@colonelcabbage Totally agree. Spoof films and silly comedies when done right are probably the funniest things you'll ever see. A stupid idea excuted in the right tone can be extremely clever and hilarious. Freddy Got Fingered is in a sense an anti comedy, there's no straight element to it at all... it's stupid and bad on an entirely new level. The lead character doesn't redeem anything he does, but I think it's admirable for its commitment to the cause. It's one big cinematic practical joke.
@colonelcabbage Freddy Got Fingered is liked only by people who smoke a lot of weed, and for all the wrong reasons.
Watchmen has needless gore at one point. There, I did it, do I get a cookie?
Hotel Inferno
Hot Fuzz?
I thought that Shaun Of The Dead had moments that were needlessly gory, it sorta put me off the movie.
Drive the gore was not needed
all the people saying Drive ....nonsense. You missed the whole point - the violence in that was very brief but very horrible and that was a key point in the film...it was supposed to shock you. The film is like a dream that glides along and then suddenly descends into a nightmare very fast. I can think of films with far more violence that while not pointless could be deemed too much.... "I saw the Devil" is a prime example but even then the film is trying to show that revenge is a horrible thing
@reservoirdog666 Nah, that served as excellent dark humour.
I suppose if i was an American republican, i would answer the last question:
"An inconvenient truth"
Freddy Got Fingered... the birth scene in that was needlessly gorey.
@HamGreenandEggs Commenting on someone's handwriting is one of the the most asinine endeavors that plagues the most materially absorbed people of this world.
Seriously,,, a really bad trait to contain, friend.
Robocop 2
Ninjer Assassin
@colonelcabbage Freddy Got Fingered and all of Tom Green's antics can be appreciated in a certain post modern affectionate way though no? From a certain perspective it's stupid, needless, grotesque, corrupting and infantile, but from another perspective it's a comment on America in the 21st century, post 9/11.
Played by a Korean pop star, not Japanese.
@SethHesio I see what you mean about commitment to its cause. However it made me so, so very angry, i'm totally unable to commend it for anything.
Drive. Some violence in it was perfectly fine, but after the third crushed skull I and the people I watched it with just got bored. Some violence was necessary for the shock value of the film, but there was simply too much of it. The extra violence made the film boring
@SethHesio I rarely dislike films, but i really felt with Freddy got Fingered that Tom Green wanted to be as annoying as possible. Films can be so bad they're good, but he just found an extra level.
Green made the fatal flaw of making an utter stupid and infantile movie, but crucially, with the most annoying and pathetic central character. Films like 'Airplane' and 'Naked Gun', were stupid films, but with likeable characters. So their stupidity is enjoyable and actually rather cleaver.
@markors13 hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :)
No, it isn't. There's no film which has too much needless gore. Simply, The Times is full of shit.
Watchmen. The gory action served no purpose whatsoever, it was distracting, uncalled for, had no relevance on the story or added any value to the characters and was somehow so unnecessary it didnt help the movie get any cooler, it only made it more annoying.