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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024
- Overpriced or worth the money? Skill enhancing or just cool to have? Are Collectives worth the price and the set up?
#DCSWorld #Helicopters
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OMEN by HP Obelisk Gaming Desktop Computer, 9th Generation Intel Core i9-9900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB, HyperX 64 GB RAM, 2x 1 TB NVMe SSD, Windows 10 Home
Joystick: VKB Gunfighter III with 20cm extension
Pedals: VKB MkIV
Throttle: Virpil Mongoose 3
Pedals are a must! More important than a collective in my opinion. Another good upgrade for helicopters is a stick extension. It makes hovering a lot easier.
absolutely true, both of it!
but if you had 2 minutes flying with a collective, you can't go back anymore. Same as with VR, in my opinion. (These massive General Electrics and stubwings/weapons look just fantastic doing their work/hanging there, when you look back over your shoulder)
Exactly. It worries me how many people doesn't care about pedals when buying heli module and then crying in the Steam reviews about how uncontrollable it is. Dont forget to install that sweet hydro damper too. Its a must! Its like 40 bucks and it make your sim heli experience like 40x better
Collective and pedals work in conjuction so they are both are important lol Add collective = Add left pedal lower collective = add right pedal
All I NEED is you. Can't wait for valentine's day
I’ve been coating my feet in shea butter all week getting ready, darling.
@@CasmoTV bahahahaha
O.O
Dam I thought I had it done with NUTella😉
@@knightly6013 LOL. Gross.
I agree with you Casmo. I have the CM3 throttle as well as the Virpil collective with Blackshark grip. It's definitely not a necessity, however it's just so fun! I fly in VR, and using a center stick with long extension coupled with a collective is just an entirely wonderful, immersive experience. I love it, and i think those who love heli flying it is a definite investment.
My exact experience now that I bought one! Also fly in VR only
That was exceptionally simple and yet answered so many questions I've been debating and toying with.
I recently decided to move from fasts jets (dcs) to the Shark and I started out by inverting the throttle. Everytime I lost to much airspeed and began to plunge earthward my brain shouted more collective and my muscle memory kicked in and pushed the throttle forward. Thanks to inversion thats actually less collective and I just hit the ground harder.
Not inverting the throttle is definetly now making a difference
I agree! I did the same thing when I started learning the KA-50 and muscle memory fucked me over every time. DO NOT invert your throttle output...use what you're used to! :)
I recently bought the K-51 collective after a decade of flying the KA-50 in DCS. It's very nice, it increases the immersion and I like the ergonomics. The rudder pedals and a good stick are much more important. The inverted throttle served me well for a long while.
Exactly this. Bonus points If you can get an extension on your stick;) I have the K-51 and for me (250 Euros shipped to the UK) it was a billy bargain for what it offers. I'm a bloody awful pilot full stop and my kit won't make me a better pilot; the good quality stick and quality pedals might possibly make it ever so slightly less hard work to get better than I am, within the limits of my talent, such as it is, but only providing I put in the practice.
I’m a warthog split throttle user. Left throttle for rudder, right throttle for collective. It works well with the Gazelle because the blades rotate clockwise, so push for collective, and push for right rudder to cancel the torque. It’s a little backwards with more conventional US counter-clockwise rotating blades though, but a bit of muscle memory can make you do amazing things.
People don't need a collective.... but.... i do. In DCS i flew only jets; even tho i bought majority of the helo's. Tried the Huey and KA-50 a few times and obviously wrecked. One day i just wanted to learn how to fly a helo and spents hours learning about Translational lift, VRS and how not to do it, start ups, proper cyclic and collective control and how to hover. All of this while using a Virpil CM2 throttle quadrant. Than i pulled the trigger and bought a Virpil collective, learned how to use it somewhat properly.... and now i can't fly without it. I believe it more of a mental thing, because i can now fly the helicopter the way its suppose to be flown with proper gear. Boosting my ability to fly the helo by increasing my ability to be more confident.
Thanks for your valuable opinions man .... what a bonus to the DCS community ...
For helicopters I’ve been using an X56 throttle inverted and the bottom thumb-wheel for torque-pedals. Also, have had good results with using the lightest center-spring on the joystick, a measure to encourage flying with one’s fingertips.
Used to use a Warthog throttle ( inverted ) must say even after using it for years, I’ve never found that I ever confused the direction while switching between jets and helicopters. However a few years ago I switched to a Komodo UH1 collective and never looked back. Great piece of kit, and really added to my immersion, so much so I have a 2nd Komodo collective on order for the Apache.
I will admit though that pedals and more important than a collective in the grand schemes of things
I'm currently considering getting a collective from Komodo, but I've seen a lot of negative things from it. Do you have any reviews of it after 2 years of use?
I was the gunner last week in VTOL VR's AH-94. My buddy Toast banked hard and simultaneously dumped collective, slamming us into the ground while trying to terrain mask in response to a missile launch. He told me he accidentally pushed instead of pulling! He explained this is because he always resisted inverting his throttle in DCS helicopters. So he had internalized "push for power." It's a double-edged sword!
For the DIYers out there, you can get a fairly cheap collective by converting a cheap E-brake to a collective setup. Not too hard to do, and will let you get something that works for a quite low cost compared to the available collectives on the market.
E-brake??? please elaborate
@@cayenne7792 an ebrake for a racing sim
I've an X56 HOTAS. On the right side of the throttle quadrant rests a knob on the bottom right corner. I've mapped the actual throttle to the throttle of the Ka-50, and the bottom knob for the collective. It works perfectly! When turning the knob it will lock to indicate 50% of its rotation, and it will match the collective positioning of the helicopter in flight leaving the vehicle stationary. I would love to build an actual sim pit with the proper hardware however, but what I have is more than good enough.
Looking back I have no idea how I flew before I built my own collective, but I know I somehow managed to pull it off for well over a decade. That said muscle memory is so important, and flying fixedwing for a living, I ended up using a CH then later Thrustmaster throttle attached sideways/vertically to my chair so that I could better replicate the movement of a collective and not get any negative takeaways. How much it helped, I'm not sure, but I know it couldn't have hurt. I'd like to think that hundreds of hours using a sideways/vertical throttle in simulators was part of why I was able to hover on my first lesson back in a helicopter after years since getting to touch the controls when I started my fixed wing to rotor wing license conversion.
Military helicopter pilot here: A collective and pedals is a must for learning the coordinated inputs that helicopters require for high level simulation. If you're just playing ArmA or something a little less intense, but realistic, a throlle can work as temp solution, but in the long run, you're going to want a collective and proper set of pedals.
I flew for years with mouse and keyboard before I had the budget to have a full set of office controls. I highy reccomend going with a full VIRPL set up if you have the ability to spend on it. for me, moving from active duty to a reservist, it was a great investment into not only my professional career, but my passion in flying.
highly reccomend doding the same. it's a game changer.
Been flying DCS Helos for years now (since release of the UH-1H) with a twist grip.... just fine. Of course, that fake rudder trim is pretty much mandatory. But once you get the hang of it it's incredibly easy.
I use an old CH Products Pro Throttle. You are the first one I saw saying that you should NOT invert the throttlr axis to use is as a collective. That is a good advice, because in my old Jane's Apache days I used to do that, and when I switched over to the JF-15, things would get scary very fast.
I used my Hotas throttle setup as a collective, it worked well enough. When i switched to VR, having a collective became crucial. I couldnt affird to spend the money, so i made one out of aluminuim using hall sensore for both the collective arm and twist grip. Works perfectly and cost about 100 quid to build, all off the shelf parts. Its all housed in ply but will be making an aluminuim case. As noted in your video its crucial that you can set it at a height that is comfortable.
I think the reason I like having an actual collective is it puts me mentally in a different mindset than flying fixed wing aircraft, I wouldn't say it makes me fly any better just it reminds me to fly different.
Hang on a minute Casmo. KW?
Even that short tease was a thing of beauty.
I've had a Virpil stick, throttle, and pedals for almost a year now, and recently got their collective in early January. I agree with Casmo here, that if you have throttle already, it's really not necessary...but it is cool. The biggest plus is immersion factor, and it's nice that you also get more key-binds and axis to play with. However, pedals are far more important. FWIW, my setup utilizes Virpil's desk mounts for stick, throttle, and keyboard, and their mount for the collective to my chair. I did end up removing the armrests. Personally, I never had any problems with the inverting the power on my throttle, but your mileage may vary. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably get the Monstertech Flight Chair, and mount the peripherals to the chair itself. Ultimately, it all depends on how invested you are in flight sims. It's all I do now gaming-wise because all the other games out there...well, they're not what they used to be (good).
You don't need a collective or pedals. BUT you do need a very good and precise control for both, especially the pedals. I use the thrustmaster warthog throttle. The right engine throttle is the collective, easy enough to make the transition, it controls torque, the blade pitch. The left hand engine lever is the pedals. Pull back is left pedal push forward is right pedal. Its quick to adjust to because it is rather natural. I've done hundred of hours and 4 campaigns on the Huey with this setup. You can control both with your left hand at the same time
I am mainly a heli pilot in dcs. Like Casmo said, that definitely thing to get is good rudder pedals. Collective can be a secondary thing if you have a HOTAS.
Collective does make a big difference, in fine tuning those pulls and making in minute adjustments.
Imagine using a lathe machine with hand held lever, that us long enough to control those minute movements. So you can down to fractions of movements with a collective that has a longer arm, if the arm is short it will still be good but not as good as having a longer arm imo.
I have a cheap genius metalstrik joystick in which I bound the spring with string, I use a box to position at the right height and just use that as a collective, really does feel like you are pulling a collective and is very immersive to me.
I have one (virpil) after many years without. Glad I have it now!
+1 on the pedals. That one purchase made my helicopter flying infinitely more enjoyable. I came to the same conclusion as you about the throttle/collective. It's not necessary to enjoy flying helos. I also felt that inverting the throttle axis was odd and, after trying it once, readjusted it to where it felt more correct to me.
I'm putting everything together tomorrow morning, to start learning how to fly the Huey. I'll be using the same thrustmaster setup you used to use. I appreciate all the training /Huey content and will be coming back to it often. Thanks -
...well, after a couple of hours - I can now make orange fireballs of debris, with authority! -sigh / hahaha
I've been inverting throttle for collective ever since Longbow Gold and that particular game advised me to in the manual IIRC. A proper collective grip would increase the immersion, but in regards of control, I'm perfectly fine with my TMWH. Also, my Saitek "slider rack" probably would be sitting right where the collective would go and I'd have to move that somewhere else where it'd be more unvomfortable, plus the TMWH throttle is sitting on it so that would have to go a few inches further outward as well. So not a real option for me currently.
My advice: If you've got the money and still fly in pancake, get a friggen Veeeee Orre headset instead, it probably does a lot more.
Very helpful, thank you very much. I think you have saved me some serious money plus prevented me from reversing the throttle setting as I start my DCS helicopter learning journey.
I flew with TMWH throttle for a couple of years, purchased a collective last year; personally my flying control and enjoyment increased.
What's your curve setting on you collective and stick? I'd love to see a video on this!!! Thanks for the content!!!
Totally agree with the priorities. And would add a head tracker (if you don't fly in VR) before pedals and a collective. The ability to glance to the side, get a visual fix as reference for hover etc. with your head movement. In the end a collective, though expensive, actually adds a finer control (think: long lever precision, vs. short throttle), but it's definitely not a "must have". If you are a dedicated rotor head, though and the money aspect isn't an issue, I can really recommend it. It takes a few days to adjust muscle memory and set the axis for your modules to match the in cockpit movement (saturation adjustments in DCS), but I found it well worth it. Gone from K-51 to Virpil Collective with Hawk-60 Grip, and both are solid, quality pieces of hardware. 🥰
Having just purchased the same gear after years of using my Warthog as a collective, I couldn't agree more! 😅
1:37 What is the Kiowa doing here?!😂
Seriously it looks great. I wonder how much work is left on it.
I use my X-56 throttle inverted as a collective when I [try to] fly the Huey. As pointed out in the video, I had some mishaps as a result of mostly using the throttle in fixed wing aircrafts, but it works well for me. I agree that a good set of pedals is impotant. I only have experience with the Huey in DCS but in my experience it is next to impossible flying it without pedals.
I bought the Collective from Virpil taxes definitely offer added value!
But the operation with the KA50 or Hawk handle is a nightmare. The thumb now has to make all the inputs in comparison to the thrust lever, while the other fingers have nothing to do.
Therefore here the Alpha grip offers a solution
I would like a collective for the added immersion but the current set ups would require me to change out my chair for one with fold away arm rests.
For now I am happy to use my Warthog HOTAS, the throttles give a few extra buttons on the bases which are handy too.
Pedals are a must though IMHO, I use the VKB's which work very well for helos.
I’ve told folks the same thing for a long time. I’d love a unit full kit to have it set up but then that kit is good for just the Huey. I use a highly modified x56 hotas with a floor extension and bend, this is honestly more important than a collective since you need the fine input on cyclic more. I have used throttle push as collective pull for years and fly just fine. And as you said I can jump from the Huey to harrier or warbird with no ill memory affect.
Didn’t realize it posted twice.. fixed.
I'm planning to extend my joystick but I already found some lighter springs for it, just gotta get the pedals and this video helped immensely. Thanks
I've been flying the Hind with a throttle since about August. Never had an issue and when I maintain regular practice with it I do quite well. I did buy the Black Shark earlier during the lunar sale and am having a harder time getting used to that but that has to do with how it is supposed to be used and controlled than collective vs throttle. I'll agree that pedals are more important than collective. When I got rudder pedals it really changed everything about controlling the helos.
Kiowa..
I used the warthog throttle (inverted) and was a pretty decent helo driver. I bought a Virpil collective late last year and I was surprised how crap I actually was! 😂
I strangely got better at flying after I got mine (virpil) maybe because I felt more confident? Not sure. It's just strange how things like that work.
I completely agree on the pedals. Flying helicopters in DCS without pedals is a nightmare I don't want to think about. I considered buying a collective but in all honesty the HOTAS more than handles it and like you I have the Virpil set so there are more than enough levers, switches and knobs to make up for it.
I fly with a X55 Rhino and it works perfectly, even with helicopters without a governor! :) ...and the saitek / logitech pedals
As a absolutly beginner I transformed an USB Handbrake into a Collective and then I was instantly much better in landings … so to say only 1 of 3 Landings were crashes now … but before with the normal throttle almost every landing was a crash ;D
What USB handbrake did you use, how much did it cost, and how did you "transform" it to work as a collective?
@@tacticalpete44 sorry my first answer was deleted, maybe I should not use Amazon Links ^^ ... I bought the cheapest analog USB Handbrake I could find on Amazon (~ 50€) , changed the Spring and one Bolt so the Preasure goes to the other direction and increased the Length of the Handle with wooden parts. and it works.
Second Step: the Unit didn't used the full Range as Sensor Range so I used the "Handbrake Analog Mod" on Thingiverse to solve that (here you can also see a picture of the the USB Handbrake) relative simple to do ... biggest problem was to find someone to 3D print it for me ^^
third Step: crafting a Headpart with buttons and axes coding the Arduino, soldering ect.. solve several issues ... takes 2 months and the result is not 100% what I expected but good enough for the moment ^^
Great advise. I think A good stick and rudder pedals are more important. Can really recommend the VKB rudder pedals 😀
i have winwing black shark. pretty happy with it. definitely helps w/ immersion. not sure if it makes things easier or not for actual flying :) (last time i flew w/ ka50 w/ tm throttle was like 7 years ago, before my long break w/ dcs)
completely agree even though i have a virpil collective on order. i also feel a stick/cyclic extension helps more with helicopters as i find myself doing more subtle input than i would with fixed wing aircraft.
I rock the Pro Flight Trainer Puma X. All my focus is on helicopters so this works well for me. I enjoy that I have a collective, cyclic, and anti torque pedals in one package. I do wish I had a few more buttons in each zone though. Thanks for all the videos!
I always got so confused flying the Harrier STOVL after using throttle inverted in Helos.
They are big and bulky like you said. I use a TM Warthog and split the throttle with one side being collective and the other being power. I also have it set for "pull" on the collective side like in RL and the other side is set to push like in plane. I figure that's about a 900.00 savings :)
I use the same Thrustmaster throttle for using the collective flying the Hind, I was wondering what curves you use for it?
He discusses collective, I see the Kiowa! lol
Thank you, now I know I wasn't the only one who saw it
To add to your pedals suggestion, I think that having a center stick that reacts properly to force trim is also a better investment than a collective. I can say that with good confidence because I personally don't have one of those and flying the Huey with a side stick Warthog setup made my initial learning experience needlessly more difficult and complicated than it probably would have been if I had the proper equipment. After a few hours of practice, I eventually figured out my own method of using force trim (and also flying helicopters in general) with this stick but I definitely would not recommend this path to anyone else interested in learning how to fly these things.
For a moment I thought about buying, but not anymore after your reasoning. I may try to build one, as it seems reasonably easy idea with Arduino and set of tools I already have, just for fun. Otherwise, WinWing F16 throttle I have has such a massive long travel, it's basically good enough either for Viper or K50. Thank you for the video.
I live for my Virpil peddles use TH warthog Throttle and use exactly as video says works great. I did try the throttle invert but did exactly as explained so switched back.
I haven't had a problem using inverted throttle as a collective as I built the muscle memory alongside with my feet on the pedals together where when I pull back I add left pedal and when I push forward right pedal. Jets wise I mainly fly fly-by wire jets where you don't even need pedal aside from taxi and landing so it doesn't really register.
I used a warthog throttle for a while, then bought the Kimodo Huey collective. I don't know about anyone else, but the connection my brain made between the movement of the collective and the desired result for the aircraft totally clicked and really improved my rotor wing flying. I mean the difference was profound. I now have the Virpil pro collective with the UH-60 grip, which I really like. I also use the Kimodo Huey cyclic which is really great. For anti-torque, I use the Thrustmaster TPRs.
Yeah but you are well over $1100 there, and most people don't have that kind of money to sink into controls for just one or two helicopters, even if they are highly realistic. I myself am a former US Army aviator, and civilian A&P mechanic, and I can't even justify that kind of expenditure to myself let alone anyone else.
@@ImpendingJoker I have the money. Some do, some don't. The subject of the video is do you need a collective. I gave my experience. I suppose I should not talk about anything I have or do that someone else can't afford? I still enjoy watching videos of the guys who own and fly their P-51s even though I will never own one, and I don't excoriate them for flaunting their wealth. On the contrary, I'm glad they share their passion with those of us who can't participate. BTW, thanks for serving. And I really do mean that. : )
thrustmaster warthog hotas, and thrustmaster foot petals. a Rift S VR headset. this is all i've needed to fly the Huey
Great video. Would you mind sharing your curve settings? I fly with Virpil controls, one being the CM2 throttle. It took me a while to find the perfect curve settings for the Gazelle. Trust me, I would have never thought the curve settings for that one were what they are. But wow, what a difference those settings were. They were also given by a Gazelle A pilot.
I have Virpil for stick, throttle, and pedals. Have had the collective for months now but haven't used it. I got it from K-51 on the ED forums and it's beautiful. Got it specifically for the Apache, but don't have an easy way to mount it. So tonight I opened up Fusion360 and designed an adapter plate that my collective will mount to that will then allow me to snap it right on to my monster tech chair mount that I already had for my throttle. So once I get the design where I want it, I'll basically have a hot-swappable throttle and collective setup.
The collective is the only hardware i have left to buy just for the immersion alone. Using the throttle works great tbh but sometimes it can be a pain when you need to balance both collective and rpm with the throttle. Pedals are a must have for anybody starting to fly the helis.
I don't need a collective to fly my choppers, But I NEED A COLLECTIVE TO FLY MY CHOPPERS.
"I'm not saying I REQUIRE a collective, I am saying I absolutely NEED one."
Building your own collective with something like an arduino leonardo or pro micro may also be a fun exercise. Depends on how much you value your time, lol. Pedals are probably easier since they have no buttons on them (brakes though?). I'd recommend a hall effect sensor to measure the input angle.
I wish I had the skill. I made a button box and it nearly fried my brain
I've been using a Warthog throttle with inverted input for years. Never really had an issue. That being said, I'm considering modding my VKB Gladiator NXT into a collective. Removing the springs from the Y axis and mounting it horizontally and see how it works. I'm going to give it a shot with my current right-handed grip to see if it's even feasible. If it works, I'll be ordering a left-handed grip to replace. If it doesn't work, well, I'll find some use for my NXT. If nothing else, it's a damn good backup in case my Gunfighter ever fails.
TM Warthog stick on a Virpil warbird base, TM Warthog throttle. Virpil ACE full foot pedals. 3x TM MFD frames. Black-Hog button box. Track IR 5 pro. Works just fine for helo ops (and have it set the same way, forward for more collective when in choppers). It would be nice to have a collective but really don't have any way to mount it with the current setup ... and this works fine anyway. Agree about the pedals ... used to use Saitek pedals which were ok but nothing great ... but the Virpils are more precise (although the center position is a little mushy even with both springs on it).
A little late to be asking, I know, but could someone PLEASE tell me what chopper he is flying @1:48? I thought I had all the choppers in DCS besides the Gazelle, and the one in this video isn't one of them...
I've recently switched from sitting in your standard swivel desk chair for simming, to sitting in an armchair (Ikea POÄNG). Having a fixed seat vs swivelling has made a huge improvement to my stick and headtracking control. If I can mount the stick, rudder, and throttle/collective to the seat, rather than have them each resting on a flat surface held only by friction, even better!
Would love to replace my T.16000M. The throttle is faulty and I want a longer stick that does not twist.
I've used my Warthog hotas throttle in the same way you do, push for power.
I tried reversing it but it didn't suit, for the same muscle memory reasons you stated.
That being said, I would love to buy a replica Apache collective and cyclic, just got to find one, but I'm under no illusions that it will improve my flying, only practice can do that.
I built 2 collectives from scratch using a 3D printer/arduino. The first was the Huey collective fully made with PLA plastic and it help me a lot with VR immersion in the helos from DCS. Two weeks ago I finished an Apache collective made of PLA(grips) and steel arm/base for strength. Just anxious for the AH-64 to be released.
Agreed with absolutely everything said in this video. I don't really want or desire a collective, my WH Throttle is good enough. Wish I had better pedals though, my old plastic Saitek pedals are in danger of falling apart :)
I have a winwing KA-50 throttle mounted to my chair with an extension - I really enjoy it but like you flew with a throttle until recently.
Thanks for posting this! I am looking to play around with helicopters now and was wondering about this very question today! I'll have to hop into the Huey and give it a shot!
Low budget collectives can be made by altering inexpensive flight sticks, with a 3d printed set of parts, or even with some metal pipe and a bicycle handlebar grip, if you're slightly handy.
I do agree about your muscle memory point, but I would also add that often for me, my muscle memory wants me to do things that would get me dead in a fixed wing aircraft also.
If I get behind the aircraft enough that I don't know what to do, at least it's a sim, and I can respawn. :-) I built a little collective like lever onto my 30 dollar logitech 3d pro flight stick using just lego technix parts.
Totally agree...not having a collective and simply configuring/using a HOTAS throttle as a collective device will do the job in supporting the learning process of flying a helicopter. Unless you have a twist feature on your flight stick, investing in rudder pedals is a must. The rudder hardware will also be useful for fixed wing aircraft.
Once your good at flying around in helicopters, investing in a collective device may be a cool thing to do (for immersion). If you are flying planes, use the HOTAS that you have, but learn to fly the rotary birds before investing into new hardware.
I wish I had proper helicopter controls in general although I can still deal with my Warthog Hotas and my Pro Flight Rudder Pedals. Maybe some day in the future I'll make an upgrade. No money no honey for now...
Honestly I own a collective and have found it personally more comfortable for me to use and slightly easier to fly with. However, I have been using my hotas warthog throttle in reverse ever since DCS UH-1H Huey came out back in the day. Personally immersion was a huge deciding factor for me when I got my Virpil Collective and UH-60 grip and I am very happy with it. Id say if you're starting out start with a throttle and a set of peddels. Also Casmo since you have piloted helicopters before how much is DCS to the basics of flying the real thing and if it's not, what is a more realistic experience? I would like to get as close to the real thing as possible without the costs of flying the real thing.
I've had people suggest removing the springs from my pedals so there's no centering force when flying choppers. Is this a good move?
I've got virpil pedals, so it's super easy to do, I just don't know if it offers a more realistic experience.
I use exactly what you recommend and have done for years a throttle mapped for planes and then just use it for helicopters with the same mappings, I tried to reverse it for helos and it was a disaster :) I use the K.I.S.S method :)
I don’t own a collective, but do have my throttle reversed for rotary flights. I have no issues switching from helicopters to airplanes though.
I reverse the throw for the TM Warthog throttle as collective and don’t entirely see the issue with reversing forward and backwards in a pinch. Maybe I’ve done it once but only when I’m swapping between jets and Heli in the same hour of play. Once I’m locked in, it’s not happening.
Also, in a pinch I’m actually more likely to lower collective to pick up airspeed out of a hover and drop down into better cover from slow movement or a hover. Up on the collective suggests I misplaced myself somewhere low already and I’m likely dead.
Completely agree about a collective, I pre ordered 1 ready for the apache being o had a set of thrustmaster t flight rudder pedals but wished I had invested in some better pedals than a collective as had no idea the apache hovering/takeoff would be so awkward to gey a stable take off.
Great video
Could you make a video about scouting and evading AAA & IRs?
Thanks for sharing your take CasmoTV. I have briefly considered a collective, but unless I have some additional disposable income will continue using the TM TWCS. I did do the slider mod and now the throttle itself works great. That being said, a real collective looks extremely cool!
I'm so used to using a throttle for helos I don't think I could change, but a good magnetic or hydraulic cyclic would be cool
This was my issue. Been using a CM3 throttle for 12 months. Got a collective from Virpil and just don’t find it as enjoyable
Been using a throttle for a collective forever and the pinky scroll as the throttle
I too have the Thrustmaster 16000M stick, sliding throttle and the pedals. It all came in one set. It is bare minimum in my opinion. The order of importance is stick, pedals then the throttle is last. The stick has a nice little slider on the front of the base that will do nicely for a collective. Also, I tried inverting the throttle to mimic the collective action in a real helo. Unless you're focusing solely on the throttle, your brain will still revert to memory. It don't work like you said. But the most important thing I found is to remove the stock springs in the stick and cut off about a quarter of the spring to lessen the amount of tension on the stick. I sat in a real helo at Oshkosh and it was loosey goosey. Almost no spring to center. There was a tensioning device that the pilot sets their preference and this one was just enough to hold it up. It moved in all directions with almost no resistance. Same with the collective. I was fighting the stick almost as much as anything. Once the tension was gone, my skills improved 100%. And if you can afford it, Track IR5 is also very important. I went years without, but once you have head tracking, you will never go back.
I find that the Virpil collective to be great. It has made my helicopter experience much better....however....for some reason I fly the KA better with the throttle. Might be the amount of hours I flew the KA before having a collective. But there's nothing like pulling the guts out of a collective to catch up with Casmo. As far as pedals go...I take the spring off of my Crosswinds to fly helicopters and just leave the dampner. Superb feeling.
You can be my wingman anytime.
Exactly my train of thoughts. Initially I inverted my throttle for Helicopters to mimic the collective „pull“, but quickly realized that it screw up my muscle memory big time. Now I keep it simple - long arm = moar powa!
I would say decent pedals, a stick ideally with no spring or absolute minimal centring strength and a decent throttle. To quantify decent I would say spend extra to get devices that use HAL sensors and avoid using devices that use potentiometers that typically deteriorate over time and spike. Even small spikes for helicopters soon become irritating.
Up until about 8 months ago I was using my Warthog throttle (conventional push forward) which was very good, along side my MFG Crosswind pedals - excellent for all round use and exceptional for helos, for a stick I use an old Logitech G940 with very low feedback force.
I switched to the Virpil Plus base set-up for collective. It is certain more immersive particularly in VR when you consider your hands will typically remain on the controls for the majority of the time. Initially it took me a while to build up muscle memory for the collective, but as I have gotten more used to it it now feels very intuitive and natural to use.
A bespoke collective is not necessary by any means, but if you enjoy flying helicopters frequently and have and are willing to invest in one it is worth it. You cannot escape though that choices are limited and usually expensive.
I have pedals, throttle and stick. Whilst I generally fly mostly helicopters in DCS, I have never felt the need for a collective. I have been using a throttle for so many years and I do not feel it would add anything. As I do not fly real helicopters, I am not missing anything. Having said that my biggest interest is general aviation. I built a desktop cockpit with yoke, throttle levers, panels and displays and that really does add something, even though I also fly VR.
I am a former reallife Glasair II-S RG pilot and miss my stick. As I want to get into Heli’s on my X-Plane 12 where I primarily fly fixed-wing wth a yoke, I would like to take this opportinity to replace the yoke with a heli stick that can do BOTH and additionally a heli-collective. Any recommendations? Not cheap stup but good mid-range (I have learned my lessons)
I've inverted my warthog throttle for all helicopters and never had an issue swapping between jets and helo's. Even Airwolf uses an inverted throttle. Yes, it's real 😁
I'm using the TM Warthog throttle with reversed axis for helicopters. It did make for short term muscle memory confusion. But I adopted quickly. What I'm trying to say is that I disagree with not recommending doing this.
As for the rest - absolutely, get a good set of pedals if you enjoy flying helicopters. It will benefit your fixed wing flying as well. Then upgrade them with damping mod.
I am coming from Msfs2020 with a Honeycomb Alpha Yoke and Bravo throttle quadrant and I have been told by someone who Flys in DCS that the Honeycomb bravo throttle quadrant could be used as a collective, so just get a flight stick.
I already have MFG Crosswind V3 pedals for the rudder confrol
Do I NEED a collective for the upcoming Apache? No, probably not. But there's no way I'm going to play without one.
I just use my winwing orion throttle and I have MFG Crosswind rudder pedals. Seems to work great for me. As you are a real Apache pilot, how close is the flight model in DCS to the real thing??
What's that helicopter your flying at 1:39? I don't recognize the cockpit, is it a private mod or something?
If you got the virpil throttle is has a mini collective its the flaps lever but it acts like an axis and can be used as one
I dont have a collective. I just got a HOTAS setup (used X55), and pedals are for sure my next bet. Twist grip on the joystick is okay for figtherplanes, but pedals are very useful for helicopters.
Can you do a video with recommended rudder pedals
I have hotas throttle, wish I had a collective and I will either build or buy one but I would modify the chair if I had one of those as the elbow rests are overrated. My chair doesnt have those so I am fine. And I would just as in the case of my throttle mount, make it so the collective stays exactly were it should and not around the chair hand rests somewhere :) .