Daylight DC1: World’s First 60 Hz E-Paper!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- Follow up video: • Daylight DC1 vs E Ink:...
Daylight DC1: daylightcomputer.com/
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Update: After receiving another review unit from Daylight today, the issues with Spark being slow/laggy have been fixed. It now works as intended.
Also, I realize that there wasn’t much outdoor footage throughout this review. I may make a longer term review with more outdoor use cases if people are genuinely interested.
That's greatly appreciated!
Do people really need it like it’s just kindle on steroids??
@@_haru007_ I would love a device where I can read my Kindle, but also write my journal, markdown PDFs, textbooks and reports, and type emails on. Yes, absolutely, we need a Kindle on steroids - one that is not bogged down by distractions.
I think a longer term review is necessary in this case as it is "new" technology, but what I think will be the most valuable addition is a comparison with e-note devices like the Remarkable and Onyx Boox devices that you mentioned briefly. This is maybe not within your typical target market of consumer electronics, but e-note devices are quite attractive for me personally and I think a large portion of knowledge workers share the same sentiments.
I think Daylight missed the mark with their misleading marketing and price - they kind of targeted standard readers and kind of targeted traditional tablets, but in my opinion they should have gone straight for the e-note market.
I think the tradeoff they made by not going the e-ink route is actually fine for e-note users considering the refresh rate improvements seem to be worth it. The screen still looks pretty decent from the videos I've seen, but it is difficult to get a proper grasp over how it compares to more direct competitors.
Would appreciate a review of outdoor usage. For this price, it needs serious consideration, so any additional review helps.
It cost more than a E-ink tablet more than an IPAD????????? has neither really the benefits of either LCD or E-INK?????
🤣 the worst of both world
i mean it has all the benefits of an lcd, and in this particular case i find it more appealing than e-ink, and niche first gen product may be expensive, but damn, its not that hard to say that you are making a better lcd to compete with e-ink
@@bazasgruntas Does it can reproduce colors like an LCD?
@@bazasgruntas I'll wait until they have a colored 60hz e-ink screen
That’s a really weird way to put it.
It actually has the benefits of BOTH E-ink and LCD, it’s 60hz and non emissive.
Of course it also has a couple drawbacks of both, but you framed it dishonestly as if it were only negatives.
$299, and I'm considering it. $729 (the actual price), I'm gonna pass. Still stuck around for support!
Same!
Lenovo Tablet M11 is like 199 and is way better.
@@ermocrate ehm, it's just a tablet with ordinary backlit screen?
Waiting for better economies of scale to bring the price down. Better if competitors will help bring it to market.
And might consider it at ipad prices if you can draw on it like paper and it has color
Why $299? Just say $300, you're not on the marketing team lmao
$729?? Man this company is doomed.
I was gonna watch the video until the first comment, yours, was shown. That’s ridiculous. No reason to even hear it out.
Not really. I’m not saying it’s cheap but it’s definitely a niche product with a specific market segment. I mean they 4 batches each is a 1000 units (I believe), So that’s not bad for the first GEN product in a niche market.
It's competing with the Boox Tab Ultra C pro at least. It's not really fair to compare everything to the iPad in specs. This is a niche product that overcomes E-ink shortcomings.
@@FreeRangeLemonit’s pure comedy how poorly this device is being launched.
729$ and with that processor! God!!!
Glad to finally see a real look at this tablet. I'm really intrigued by it, even with the downsides you mentioned. I think it's great that a company is thinking outside of the box a bit and giving us options aside from the now-formulaic tablet recipe. It's refreshing, and I hope they do well. I'll be interested in picking one of these up (or the successor) at some point down the line.
Loved your review. It is an honest look at the current situation and an honest look at the product that actually tells you what you are getting yourself into.
shouldve explored the use case of using it outdoors for a more charitable viewpoint
Fair point. I may have understated the importance of being able to use it outdoors.
But at the same time, I found it tough to adapt this device to the way I like to work (with a keyboard), and the lack of a stand/keyboard did not make it easy.
@@JoshuaChang Yes you really understated the main point of the product. And I think that's why they don't want to say it's an LCD because people are ignorant and will say "ah it's just a transflective LCD" when it's clearly not your average transflective LCD
Switch your Ipad screen to Grayscale mode and using a matte screen protector ! You can read under sunlight. AND IT'S FAST
A) The existence of the possibility to turn it back on - will always mess with your head.
B) Switching to grayscale + a matte screen doesn't solve the blue light and PWM (flicker)
C) Most importantly, the iPad will still have an emissive backlight that messes with circadian rhythms.
Do it in the SUN while you’re at it Einstein.
Edit: and RIP to your battery life.
Display in the video is not e-Ink. Joke is on me 💀.
@@drashyagoel5782and tis is also a really pointless product too, why do you need 60 hz for a e ink display, the point of it is supposed to be slow
If you have an iPad Pro with a matte screen protector, you can just toggle on the grayscale option, and not only will it save you battery, but keeps the 120 HZ that the Daylight advertised, and does whatever the daylight does BETTER. Seriously, I don’t know whats up with these companies thinking that just by selling the idea of a machine built around productivity, that they can cheap out on a device that should’ve been priced $200 considering all the components used.
I agree on the shortcomings of this product but I feel people are way too quick to beat down on the company. It is only in our interest to have another tech company because the more of them there are, the greater the competition. Of course this 1st gen product is far from ideal and the price is too high to be viable long term but hopefully they will take all of our feedback on board and make it even better. I know I can live without a gadget like this but I know I am a victim of mindless social media consumption and would like to have something that make it easier on the mind.
Well, maybe they should try to make a great product, instead of bullshitting people. This is a cut down android tablet with an LCD screen with a reflective back. You know what LCD started with? A reflective back. It wasn't "white", but that mostly just the color of the coating. This company is trying to sell a cheap as shit product for an insane price by dazzling people with a fancy website and misleading wording.
@@GoBBLeS666 they have clarified on this already, you are just stating the obvious.
@@grandcalifornia8410 Yet they keep trying to bullshit people.
Being honest I don't care about the LCD controversy.
I'd like to know how the screen compares to other screens on eye fatigue
exactly! let's focus on their unique selling points!
Personally the advantage of E ink is the long battery life and the viewing angles so this seems pointless id rather a black and white OLED than LCD.
Transflective LCD typically means that they replaced the backlight layer behind the LCD with reflective layer. So now instead of light behind shining THROUGH the LCD, the light is now a "frontlight" that shined on top and reflected back. Think of it like those casio digital watch display, but have dense pixels grid like a screen instead of just number display.
Basically, the only difference between this and a traditional backlighted LCD is that it's reflective. It's just a downgraded lcd that doesn't do color and have poor contrast. It does not have the "paper-like" benefit of an e-ink (besides being reflective), like the extreme-viewing angles or retaining the "ink" when powered off mentioned in the video. For a device for reading, I can't say I care too much about the low refresh rate. The poor soc probably doesn't get much productive work done on this device anyway.
As for eye strain, DC dimming is certainly an advantage, but not every traditional backlighted LCD use PWM dimming. A lot of the ipads that uses plain old ips lcd does not have pwm dimming, or have very high-frequency pwm on lowest brightness setting (higher-frequency = less detectable = less strain). If you raise the brightness a bit the pwm will go away. Those ipad pros that have LCD with mini-led backlight or OLED does unfortunately have pwm dimming. Notebookcheck typically test for pwm flickering when they review their devices, you can check their website to see which devices uses pwm dimming if you're curious.
The 0 blue-light "frontlight' is also an advantage if you're sensitive to blue-light, but honestly I don't think I can read using the extreme amber light. You can blend in some of the "cool" white light to balance it out, but you'll be adding some blue-light back. And at that point there's not much different than the night shift or low blue-light mode on your phones or laptop which also help reduces blue-light
Should have explained what technology it was using at the start instead of being "mysterious" throughout the video
And it wasn’t even “deceptive.” Not to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together anyway.
calling it e-paper is grossly misleading if it’s not actually e-ink
depends. the reason we ditched reflective lcd in the first place is because it reflected a low amount of ambient light - epaper is much better in this respect. if their lcd technology has a high enough reflectivity, it's good (although it needs to be much cheaper)
@@purplelord8531 No e-paper is a technology term which describes a screen that can keep it's state even when the device loses power like paper.
@@purplelord8531 No e-paper is a technology term which describes a screen that can keep it's state even when the device loses power like paper.
@@asandax6 No it doesn't. Pebble for example commonly marketed its reflective LCD displays as e-paper and no one had a problem with that. Same with many other applications of RLCD. It's called e-paper because it doesn't emit light, like paper.
It doesn't emit light though and is usable in super bright outdoor light just like e-ink so I think calling it LCD would be even more confusing. When you look at it in person it looks just like e-ink, just with a higher refresh rate.
Instead of focusing on the techy aspects, like weight, PPI and price, it would be more interesting to focus on the use cases.
Is the writing & sketching better than on iPad/rM2/Kindle Scribe? How is the reading experience, in nature and in the dark, compared to the other devices? Does it help you to stay focused for longer than a regular tablet?
Please consider these ideas when making a 2nd video about the DC1!
The price is steep, but if it helps you to be more productive and less distracted for 30 min per day, you will earn the money back easily.
Thanks a TON, Joshua! That was a very, very informational review! Kudos for solving that "LivePaper" mystery.
8:52
So great!!! Love this review. Thank you so much!!
Really appreciated seeing the side-by-side comparison of the Kindle and Daylight DC1! Super helpful!
Your even handedness but dedication to honesty is incredible. Instant subscription from me!
Company is in shambles. Saw their launch event. CEO spent 10 minutes talking about guru like bullshit instead of showing the product. Video now taken down from youtube.
Display is not e-ink, as their marketing is kind of trying to make people think. Waiting for MKBHD to "destroy" them
Yeah, from the get-go, the company did have a major Humane/Rabbit vibe. The lack of details about the company itself on their website, lack of technical papers about their rebranded display tech - it was giving shady.
Although after the whole Humane debacle, I am sceptical they will send a review unit to MKBHD
I watched that video and I was impressed at first and liked his charisma, but then as it went on it just devolved into a some weird tech enlightenment cult vibe. Their marketing is just so misleading I think it has effectively buried them already. New brands need to build trust, and right now they have started themselves in a really poor position.
How is “like e-ink, but better” deceptive?
I also waiting for JerryRigEverything to rip this thing apart and seeing what's actually inside the screen
@@rfichokeofdestinyit’s deceptive when there is no where in their website that specific what the technology actually is rather than “e-ink but better” or “live paper display”. In Specs page you literally should list out the specs, instead of only the marketing terms.
Thanks for the explanations!
Any battery testing? What is the justification around PPI and choice of processor compared to price? With PPI - I’m thinking screen hardware limitations with added changes in the Transflective LCD screen layer.
Excellent review! Great job Joshua. Your research into the difference between e-ink and RLCD is extremely helpful. Daylight appears to have tried to pull a fast one on consumers.
Amazing review!
I want e-ink on a device named e-paper, otherwise I'm out.
Great video! I wasn't sure what this product truly was, I know now ty 🔥
What is the writing experience compared to eInk? What about integration with OneNote?
Please let me know when they will release the colour version.
How long does this tablet hold a charge?
Odd question but what font did you use for the text at 2:07 "Introducing Daylight - a healthier, more human-friendly computer"? And Great video!
That was just a screen recording from their website 😅
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to be very similar to “Alexon RR Light Regular.”
It's ABC Arizona from Dinamo
Dude, their website and marketing is just 🔥 I was blown away by their website! I mean, they might be scammy, but they know how to market. Like.. damn!
For displays: I was initially excited by this display, until I realized I have a display that is like the Daylight DC-1's, but better. The Pixel QI displays had two modes: A transreflective LCD that could be switched to a full-color mode if needed.
The device? OLPC XO-1.
I love that you are real and you done your homework.
Thanks for the review, first time I see this device, but after watching I still don't know a thing about it, not even what pen tech it uses or whether the backlight can be tuened off? I guess it can, the technology allows... Does it have its own apps? Like... anything apart from what display type it is...?
Can you show it next to a Remarkable 2? Does it have better contrast than Hisense Q5, which is RLCD?
is it like TCL NXPAPER 11, which I have?
Use iPad with greyscale and lower power mode on. What is the racing game being played?
If it cant even do email, what have you been able to do with it? I'm genuinely interested cuz they market it as having spotify and some other apps preinstalled but i feel like email is one of the most basic tasks and its scary that its struggling with that.
If you use Gmail on Chrome you can achieve email. The issue is that this guy decides to use the most resource-intensive app
@@saantii Seems like he received a new testing unit and the app was working just fine on that one.
@@drashyagoel5782 thanks for the heads up
How are the viewing angels with the light on?
I'm looking at my Polar smart watch, it is just that same tech?
If they can improve the contrast, and put it on a laptop like the Pixel Qi, I'd be very interested. If they can have the option of color LCD turned on or off, like Pixel Qi, that would be even better. Otherwise, what does this do, that Pixel Qi didn't do?
729$ ? I expected it to be 150$
Great review, the low resolution seems like a problem!
Wow!
I will be waiting for your review!!
great review
Any comment on the battery?
Wow, even considering that I’m probably more technically inclined than the average consumer I completely was bamboozled into thinking it’s “like eink but better”. Knowing now it’s just lcd makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks
The Kindle is not "locked" to the Amazon store, just plug it into your computer via USB and you can drop (compatible) files onto it. One of my favorite things is to put PDFs onto it.
I appreciate the company's purpose and the purpose of the device itself, but given the breakdown of hardware and tech they are putting into it - $730 is just not a good price, it should be way cheaper. The reason e-Ink tablets are so expensive is because of the royalties they have to pay to the e-Ink patent holder - maybe that's the same issue Daylight is facing with their display?
Also, how do they not have a keyboard to ship when some of their core marketing material features one? [It appears on the link preview every time I share their website]
They can’t be paying royalties for e-ink because there is no e-ink technology. I think the price comes from low volume manufacturing on a new display they developed.
What is threads?
I WANT ONE OF THESE!!!!
I love my Remarkeable. Having a paper-like display completely changes the loopback with your brain receptors, you don't want to go on instagram as much, you're not like a moth to the flame, it's easier to just use it to read or write notes and put it back down.
In fact, one good feature of the Remarkeable is that it DOESN'T have Android so you CAN'T do those other things. I would like a locked-down version of the Daylight maybe.
Great review man, I watched the saturday startup stories vid with the CEO and could tell there was a lot of marketing BS. I will say I'm still intrigued, so will be doing much more research. Solid video production 👌 it's my first time on your channel.
Thanks for making a video about this product man. I was actually curious about it since it appeared on my socmed. So it is not e-ink after all... The price really shook me tho. lol
At 9:06 "Transflective LCDs have been around since the early 2000's"
Since at least the early 90's. For example, the 1996 Apple's MessagePad 130 used a transflective LCD. There were other devices before that: watches, calculators, perhaps even notebooks and tablets. I guess transflective LCDs have existed for almost as old as LCDs themselves.
I like the idea a lot. I'd love to try it!
Wouldn't it increase the battery use?
I am kind of confused by the confusion. They say it isn’t e-ink. They keep saying it isn’t e-ink. What is confusing about that? I’m going to buy one I think and this is the first hands-on review I’fe seen. Would like to see handwriting comparison with Remarkable 2 or other (actual) e-ink.
There was once the Mirasol display that even brought colors to life but still fell through eventually.
This one is at least on sale for everyone I guess.
My biggest work hurdle is reading through 100+ page specifications on ms word and needing to use the comment functionality for shared docs in ms teams. This looks like it would resolve that issue and I’ve been hesitant to commit to a boox note air. Have you tested either of these use cases/would you be willing to and give some feedback?
Also your review was wonderful!!
Should have mentioned the price after mentioning the specs 😅
I'm not in the market for something like that but if I was, after watching this video I would consider buying a 50 dolar tablet and setting it to grayscale, would be basically the same
I would love to know how the integration with the Wacom pen works, I see this product being great for artists and I think that would be a great target for this product ❤ Especially if they incorporate an app that doesn't train LLMs with people's work. ( I am talking to you, Adobe 😒)
It’s standard EMR. Like most e ink tablets have. ATM with the contrast and slow cpu it has little over the other e ink Android tablets with Wacom tech
Subscribed!
But why do you look like excessorize me and josh bergara had a baby? 😅😅😅❤❤❤
Oh man, this ghost free LCD Transflective tech shrunk down for gameboys would be dope
Interesting. Very impressed with their solution. They should talk more about it because it is great problem solving. S/o to them. A bunch of people are trying to solve the digital minimalism problem and this is a great take on it.
does it work without the backlight?
From what I saw in another video, the backlight is not required. You can use it in direct sunlight.
Very respectable review. Personally, considerimg Hisense A9.
I get visual migranes from too much screen time and they are terrible and drain me but I have to for work. I'm looking forward to monitors that are healthier for the eyes so I can do research and writing on one screen and social media management and content like this on the other. I'd also like to get my boyfriend this screen because his eyes are always red from coding all day and he already has poor vision.
Ink monitors are already on sale: Bigme B251 or Dasung 133 or ONYX BOOX Mira PRO/////Уже есть в продаже мониторы на чернилах: Bigme B251 или Dasung 133 или ONYX BOOX Mira PRO.
I don't think this is necessary. If I need a nice display to work on, or to consume content I will use my iPad. It has a beautiful, crisp colour display that helps me get stuff done efficiently. If I want to read. I will use my kindle. It is great one the eyes for reading and I love the paper like effect. I DO NOT want to be trying to work on a Kindle-like thing, I DO NOT want to watch movies on a kindle. And it isn't even e-ink so the battery savings isn't big I don't see why anyone would ever want, or have a need this.
I think the 60 to 120 hz is the range for the refresh rate. While 60 FPS is the frames per second on the display. Two different things. I think.
Appstore??? or Playstore???
Greate review , I think this kind of display is just what was missing in the market: a non emisive LCD , I do believe it's the best of both worlds , if they manage to make it display all colors and give it faster hardware ( at the same price point ), it will sell like donuts.
Well, it sounds like if you took an iPad and forced it into grayscale you might get a similar experience. It actually relies mostly on back light even during the day, which kills the battery just like the LCDs do and as such you lose most of the qualities actual e-ink displays offer including battery life that drops from one month to a couple of days at best. It honestly sounds more like a scam.
I’ve been wanting an e ink type tablet but every time a company comes around with a nice one the prices are always delusional
Going back technology wise with this.
Transflective LCD ... that's the first thing I thought when I saw their launch video with that guy sporting the tech spiritual guru vibes.
Excellent review. When it launched, due to the misleading marketing, I almost fell for it and took the bait. Next, please.
Nice review, but I think it's marketed as a Remarkable alternative, not an iPad alternative.
Their website is absurd, whenever I open it, my CPU usage shoots up to 100% from like 5%. What the hell
Yeah they went way overboard on the dynamic scrolling thing. It's unusable.
Its called crypto mining
I wish this smart marketing term goes always.
e-paper -> front LED matte screen LCD
vegan leather -> polycarbonate/foam sheet with leather pattern stamp
promotion -> 120hz screen
I wish nobody was fool enough to buy that 10 year old hardware with great marketing with a fake premium price.
I really like the tech but I've always prefered oled displays with light grey fonts to read books than even actual books. So much more versitile and I've never felt like my eyes were not happy while doing it for hours
It is a transflective LCD (aka, lcd that reflects the light of the ambient you’re in) with a Matt coding on top. Not e-ink. You’re welcome.
It's still a glowing screen as far as I can tell
The price with these specs is crazy but this display for like 200 that would be smaller and lighter with slimmer bezels I mean, why not great cheap ereader/tablet hybrid.
Did I blink and miss it, or was there no info on battery life?
Here’s what they said:
- Reading without backlight 67 hours
- TH-cam without backlight 30 hours
- Reading with 30% backlight Amber brightness 30 hours
In my personal experience, with backlight on 100%, probably drains in 8-10 hours. If used indoors, I found 100% to be necessary.
@@JoshuaChang Thanks for the info.
damn $700, there is a Chinese company selling the exact same screen technology for only $150 and it has a slim bezel and slick
I feel like this will just bring more attention to the remarkable 2, which is even more limited but very much what their market wants
nope, as a former rm2 user, I can say that it's too limited. the lack of third party apps is really a bummer.
now using the Boox Note 3 Air C instead, with sound and notifications turned off. I'm thinking of selling my iPad Air.
Thank you for looking out for people and calling out that this isn’t E-Ink
Feels like it’s going to mrwhosetheboss’ tech fails playlist
So let me see if I understand, a company creates a device that is supposed to run at 120hz using e-paper, instead, they give you a machine running at 60hz and not using e-ink (so they did not lie just mislead in this one) but an old fashioned LCD. My reaction,according to them, to a company trying to mislead me is "buy this product"?
IMO high refresh rate E-paper is a marketting ploy - Rather than playing to it's strengths it's just become an inferior LCD display, with a higher price usually and still way less usable for normal display tasks:
Things I WANT E-Paper developers to focus on:
- Color Reproduction
- Low/No power Stability (Can't get 60hz out of that anyways!)
- Manufacturing Cost
We need to get it out of our head that these are supposed to be replacements for normal displays.
They'll never be that, and by the time they get close, they'll just be missing everything that makes E-paper good anyways.
I agree. Still refresh rate is a big thing. Not to watch movies but for us who want a digital sketch book.
Even color I would put lower I need than refresh rate.
And this is not to scroll stuff or watch movies but to have a smooth drawing experience.
Same with resolution. I rather take even higher black and white res over color
Still I get that if you use it more for pure not taking and reading then color can be good still I see the need of color mostly for annotation and hilighting
Color for me really is only needed for comics.
Again different use cases. Just wanted to point out my use case.
@@litjellyfish I just like to think of the current best, cheapest usage for E-paper: You actually see it as price-tags in stores. Near completely static, powerless; but still updateable. Makes me wonder if we could have houses with E-Paper wallpaper in the future - low refresh rate, but can paint any pattern in any color at a moment's notice, and it will stick without power usage... now THAT is e-paper
Regular IPS’s don’t flicker as well. Just but any ebook from any brand (except for Kindle) and you will be fine. Just as opposed to the author of this video, who didn’t mark an advertisement as advertisement, which is not fine.
I don't think you are saying that LCD is e-paper.
Transflective display. Just like the 1st Amazfit Bip Watch!
Lets not forget TCL's color epaper in 2021 called NXTPAPER. And long ago sharp did the black and white transreflective displays called Memory LCD. This device looks really bad. Reminds me of the early days of ereaders which lack contrast.
When I watched Daylight's promo video, I thought it was an e-ink display, as they marketed it as an solution for a faster e-ink so the price sounds less offensive. That looks like a total ripoff, they could at least be honest... It's a small company and lacks economics of scale but no reason to deceive the costumers
They say they don’t use polarized filters, and the display is not layers on layers. So definitely not LCD. I would say something in between E-ink and LCD.
No it definitely is LCD. Layers don't matter what matters is that there's a liquid crystal inside that they are using to darken the display. This is a Transmissive and Reflective (Transflective) LCD. Smart watches have and calculators have had them for a long time.
Love e-ink for reading but no way am I paying that much just for a faster refresh rate
Using a monochrome LCD without a backlight appears to be a great way to up-sell an out-of-date Android tablet.
It has backlight
@@litjellyfish hah 😢
Thank you so much for both taking the time to research what they are using and clearly addressing why their way of presenting the tech is dishonest. Thing is, transflective LCDs in Android tablets do have their advantages and I welcome more competition in that space (Hisense, TCL and Eyemoo offer some, but they are both color and closer to 500 USD), but the Daylight team's apparent unwillingness to just admit that outright, coupled with them charging such a high price, feels problematic to say the least.
I understand their position to be vague about the display type. If they mention some obscure name susch as translective lcd people will only get confused. Instead they compare it to e-ink, which is well known and established technology.
Is this a joke? (It's not 1st April, is it?). The whole point of an e-paper display is that it only refreshes when a page is turned, etc. (I thought the static display was its raison d'être.)
E-paper is e-ink. This is a reflective LCD.
$729 for a MediaTek G99? Absolutely not. This should be $400 max because of the novelty of the screen, ideally closer to $300
These screens were in the original Gameboy in the 90's