Update: After receiving another review unit from Daylight today, the issues with Spark being slow/laggy have been fixed. It now works as intended. Also, I realize that there wasn’t much outdoor footage throughout this review. I may make a longer term review with more outdoor use cases if people are genuinely interested.
@@_haru007_ I would love a device where I can read my Kindle, but also write my journal, markdown PDFs, textbooks and reports, and type emails on. Yes, absolutely, we need a Kindle on steroids - one that is not bogged down by distractions.
I think a longer term review is necessary in this case as it is "new" technology, but what I think will be the most valuable addition is a comparison with e-note devices like the Remarkable and Onyx Boox devices that you mentioned briefly. This is maybe not within your typical target market of consumer electronics, but e-note devices are quite attractive for me personally and I think a large portion of knowledge workers share the same sentiments. I think Daylight missed the mark with their misleading marketing and price - they kind of targeted standard readers and kind of targeted traditional tablets, but in my opinion they should have gone straight for the e-note market. I think the tradeoff they made by not going the e-ink route is actually fine for e-note users considering the refresh rate improvements seem to be worth it. The screen still looks pretty decent from the videos I've seen, but it is difficult to get a proper grasp over how it compares to more direct competitors.
Waiting for better economies of scale to bring the price down. Better if competitors will help bring it to market. And might consider it at ipad prices if you can draw on it like paper and it has color
A) The existence of the possibility to turn it back on - will always mess with your head. B) Switching to grayscale + a matte screen doesn't solve the blue light and PWM (flicker) C) Most importantly, the iPad will still have an emissive backlight that messes with circadian rhythms.
If you have an iPad Pro with a matte screen protector, you can just toggle on the grayscale option, and not only will it save you battery, but keeps the 120 HZ that the Daylight advertised, and does whatever the daylight does BETTER. Seriously, I don’t know whats up with these companies thinking that just by selling the idea of a machine built around productivity, that they can cheap out on a device that should’ve been priced $200 considering all the components used.
Instead of focusing on the techy aspects, like weight, PPI and price, it would be more interesting to focus on the use cases. Is the writing & sketching better than on iPad/rM2/Kindle Scribe? How is the reading experience, in nature and in the dark, compared to the other devices? Does it help you to stay focused for longer than a regular tablet? Please consider these ideas when making a 2nd video about the DC1! The price is steep, but if it helps you to be more productive and less distracted for 30 min per day, you will earn the money back easily.
depends. the reason we ditched reflective lcd in the first place is because it reflected a low amount of ambient light - epaper is much better in this respect. if their lcd technology has a high enough reflectivity, it's good (although it needs to be much cheaper)
@@asandax6 No it doesn't. Pebble for example commonly marketed its reflective LCD displays as e-paper and no one had a problem with that. Same with many other applications of RLCD. It's called e-paper because it doesn't emit light, like paper.
It doesn't emit light though and is usable in super bright outdoor light just like e-ink so I think calling it LCD would be even more confusing. When you look at it in person it looks just like e-ink, just with a higher refresh rate.
Transflective LCD typically means that they replaced the backlight layer behind the LCD with reflective layer. So now instead of light behind shining THROUGH the LCD, the light is now a "frontlight" that shined on top and reflected back. Think of it like those casio digital watch display, but have dense pixels grid like a screen instead of just number display. Basically, the only difference between this and a traditional backlighted LCD is that it's reflective. It's just a downgraded lcd that doesn't do color and have poor contrast. It does not have the "paper-like" benefit of an e-ink (besides being reflective), like the extreme-viewing angles or retaining the "ink" when powered off mentioned in the video. For a device for reading, I can't say I care too much about the low refresh rate. The poor soc probably doesn't get much productive work done on this device anyway. As for eye strain, DC dimming is certainly an advantage, but not every traditional backlighted LCD use PWM dimming. A lot of the ipads that uses plain old ips lcd does not have pwm dimming, or have very high-frequency pwm on lowest brightness setting (higher-frequency = less detectable = less strain). If you raise the brightness a bit the pwm will go away. Those ipad pros that have LCD with mini-led backlight or OLED does unfortunately have pwm dimming. Notebookcheck typically test for pwm flickering when they review their devices, you can check their website to see which devices uses pwm dimming if you're curious. The 0 blue-light "frontlight' is also an advantage if you're sensitive to blue-light, but honestly I don't think I can read using the extreme amber light. You can blend in some of the "cool" white light to balance it out, but you'll be adding some blue-light back. And at that point there's not much different than the night shift or low blue-light mode on your phones or laptop which also help reduces blue-light
i mean it has all the benefits of an lcd, and in this particular case i find it more appealing than e-ink, and niche first gen product may be expensive, but damn, its not that hard to say that you are making a better lcd to compete with e-ink
That’s a really weird way to put it. It actually has the benefits of BOTH E-ink and LCD, it’s 60hz and non emissive. Of course it also has a couple drawbacks of both, but you framed it dishonestly as if it were only negatives.
I agree on the shortcomings of this product but I feel people are way too quick to beat down on the company. It is only in our interest to have another tech company because the more of them there are, the greater the competition. Of course this 1st gen product is far from ideal and the price is too high to be viable long term but hopefully they will take all of our feedback on board and make it even better. I know I can live without a gadget like this but I know I am a victim of mindless social media consumption and would like to have something that make it easier on the mind.
Well, maybe they should try to make a great product, instead of bullshitting people. This is a cut down android tablet with an LCD screen with a reflective back. You know what LCD started with? A reflective back. It wasn't "white", but that mostly just the color of the coating. This company is trying to sell a cheap as shit product for an insane price by dazzling people with a fancy website and misleading wording.
Company is in shambles. Saw their launch event. CEO spent 10 minutes talking about guru like bullshit instead of showing the product. Video now taken down from youtube. Display is not e-ink, as their marketing is kind of trying to make people think. Waiting for MKBHD to "destroy" them
Yeah, from the get-go, the company did have a major Humane/Rabbit vibe. The lack of details about the company itself on their website, lack of technical papers about their rebranded display tech - it was giving shady. Although after the whole Humane debacle, I am sceptical they will send a review unit to MKBHD
I watched that video and I was impressed at first and liked his charisma, but then as it went on it just devolved into a some weird tech enlightenment cult vibe. Their marketing is just so misleading I think it has effectively buried them already. New brands need to build trust, and right now they have started themselves in a really poor position.
@@rfichokeofdestinyit’s deceptive when there is no where in their website that specific what the technology actually is rather than “e-ink but better” or “live paper display”. In Specs page you literally should list out the specs, instead of only the marketing terms.
Not really. I’m not saying it’s cheap but it’s definitely a niche product with a specific market segment. I mean they 4 batches each is a 1000 units (I believe), So that’s not bad for the first GEN product in a niche market.
It's competing with the Boox Tab Ultra C pro at least. It's not really fair to compare everything to the iPad in specs. This is a niche product that overcomes E-ink shortcomings.
The Kindle is not "locked" to the Amazon store, just plug it into your computer via USB and you can drop (compatible) files onto it. One of my favorite things is to put PDFs onto it.
Fair point. I may have understated the importance of being able to use it outdoors. But at the same time, I found it tough to adapt this device to the way I like to work (with a keyboard), and the lack of a stand/keyboard did not make it easy.
@@JoshuaChang Yes you really understated the main point of the product. And I think that's why they don't want to say it's an LCD because people are ignorant and will say "ah it's just a transflective LCD" when it's clearly not your average transflective LCD
Glad to finally see a real look at this tablet. I'm really intrigued by it, even with the downsides you mentioned. I think it's great that a company is thinking outside of the box a bit and giving us options aside from the now-formulaic tablet recipe. It's refreshing, and I hope they do well. I'll be interested in picking one of these up (or the successor) at some point down the line.
Ford used transreflective display technology for the Aerostar instrument panel displays digital segments in the late 80s/early 90s. They looked good back-lit as well as being hit by direct sunlight. Unfortunately, they were not AMLCDs and had low contrast ratio, so they suffered from poor off-angle viewing. I suffer from migraine with aura, so I'm glad someone is concerned with the PWM light issues people like me face. More than often, GM (and others) taillights, Hyundai headlights will trigger a migraine while driving. I wish they would "smooth" away the flicker by using resistance to dim and/or capacitance to buffer that annoying output. Thanks for covering this product with all its pros and cons. 😊👍
I WANT ONE OF THESE!!!! I love my Remarkeable. Having a paper-like display completely changes the loopback with your brain receptors, you don't want to go on instagram as much, you're not like a moth to the flame, it's easier to just use it to read or write notes and put it back down. In fact, one good feature of the Remarkeable is that it DOESN'T have Android so you CAN'T do those other things. I would like a locked-down version of the Daylight maybe.
For displays: I was initially excited by this display, until I realized I have a display that is like the Daylight DC-1's, but better. The Pixel QI displays had two modes: A transreflective LCD that could be switched to a full-color mode if needed. The device? OLPC XO-1.
Loved your review. It is an honest look at the current situation and an honest look at the product that actually tells you what you are getting yourself into.
Excellent review! Great job Joshua. Your research into the difference between e-ink and RLCD is extremely helpful. Daylight appears to have tried to pull a fast one on consumers.
I appreciate the company's purpose and the purpose of the device itself, but given the breakdown of hardware and tech they are putting into it - $730 is just not a good price, it should be way cheaper. The reason e-Ink tablets are so expensive is because of the royalties they have to pay to the e-Ink patent holder - maybe that's the same issue Daylight is facing with their display? Also, how do they not have a keyboard to ship when some of their core marketing material features one? [It appears on the link preview every time I share their website]
They can’t be paying royalties for e-ink because there is no e-ink technology. I think the price comes from low volume manufacturing on a new display they developed.
If it's got a backlight, it's gonna hurt the eyes similar to an lcd/oled. E-ink displays don't hurt the eyes because the light is above the display shining towards the screen to illuminate it, instead of behind the display shining through it directly into your eyes.
Any battery testing? What is the justification around PPI and choice of processor compared to price? With PPI - I’m thinking screen hardware limitations with added changes in the Transflective LCD screen layer.
Wow, even considering that I’m probably more technically inclined than the average consumer I completely was bamboozled into thinking it’s “like eink but better”. Knowing now it’s just lcd makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks
I understand their position to be vague about the display type. If they mention some obscure name susch as translective lcd people will only get confused. Instead they compare it to e-ink, which is well known and established technology.
Great review man, I watched the saturday startup stories vid with the CEO and could tell there was a lot of marketing BS. I will say I'm still intrigued, so will be doing much more research. Solid video production 👌 it's my first time on your channel.
At 9:06 "Transflective LCDs have been around since the early 2000's" Since at least the early 90's. For example, the 1996 Apple's MessagePad 130 used a transflective LCD. There were other devices before that: watches, calculators, perhaps even notebooks and tablets. I guess transflective LCDs have existed for almost as old as LCDs themselves.
Thanks for the review, first time I see this device, but after watching I still don't know a thing about it, not even what pen tech it uses or whether the backlight can be tuened off? I guess it can, the technology allows... Does it have its own apps? Like... anything apart from what display type it is...?
Great unbiased review! Very refreshing to see. Love how you presented both sides and and ultimately left the viewer/consumer to decide. Thank you. You have a new subscriber. :)
I dodged a bullet on this. i saw their announcement in hacker news and was blown away thinking it was 60fps eink so Immediatly placed an order. But then the red flags started piling up. The hippie vibe in all their promo and hands on videos with half naked people in yoga pants using a spectrometer on a book 😅 and comparing it to the daylight. The poor viewing angles and how dark it was under direct sunlight worried me so I started doing some research and found out it was just a RLCD. I felt completelly scammed so I canceled my order right away. After seeing your review Im super glad I did it and purchased a boox tab ultra instead
@@andvaribekhoCongrats. I have not yet. Please, how have you cancelled your order? Simply by sending them e-mail? Or on the webpage somehow? Thanks a lot 🍀
They piqued my interest when I fist saw this promoted, but the more I looked into it the more sketchy it seemed. I found the CEO praising bitcoin and most of the videos were him going on like a motivational speaker instead of showing off the product. Set off a bunch of red lights for me. If they had a new tech they would be selling it and not a device. The PPI being that low is a joke.
IMO high refresh rate E-paper is a marketting ploy - Rather than playing to it's strengths it's just become an inferior LCD display, with a higher price usually and still way less usable for normal display tasks: Things I WANT E-Paper developers to focus on: - Color Reproduction - Low/No power Stability (Can't get 60hz out of that anyways!) - Manufacturing Cost We need to get it out of our head that these are supposed to be replacements for normal displays. They'll never be that, and by the time they get close, they'll just be missing everything that makes E-paper good anyways.
I agree. Still refresh rate is a big thing. Not to watch movies but for us who want a digital sketch book. Even color I would put lower I need than refresh rate. And this is not to scroll stuff or watch movies but to have a smooth drawing experience. Same with resolution. I rather take even higher black and white res over color Still I get that if you use it more for pure not taking and reading then color can be good still I see the need of color mostly for annotation and hilighting Color for me really is only needed for comics. Again different use cases. Just wanted to point out my use case.
@@litjellyfish I just like to think of the current best, cheapest usage for E-paper: You actually see it as price-tags in stores. Near completely static, powerless; but still updateable. Makes me wonder if we could have houses with E-Paper wallpaper in the future - low refresh rate, but can paint any pattern in any color at a moment's notice, and it will stick without power usage... now THAT is e-paper
If it cant even do email, what have you been able to do with it? I'm genuinely interested cuz they market it as having spotify and some other apps preinstalled but i feel like email is one of the most basic tasks and its scary that its struggling with that.
I am kind of confused by the confusion. They say it isn’t e-ink. They keep saying it isn’t e-ink. What is confusing about that? I’m going to buy one I think and this is the first hands-on review I’fe seen. Would like to see handwriting comparison with Remarkable 2 or other (actual) e-ink.
If they can improve the contrast, and put it on a laptop like the Pixel Qi, I'd be very interested. If they can have the option of color LCD turned on or off, like Pixel Qi, that would be even better. Otherwise, what does this do, that Pixel Qi didn't do?
I don't think this is necessary. If I need a nice display to work on, or to consume content I will use my iPad. It has a beautiful, crisp colour display that helps me get stuff done efficiently. If I want to read. I will use my kindle. It is great one the eyes for reading and I love the paper like effect. I DO NOT want to be trying to work on a Kindle-like thing, I DO NOT want to watch movies on a kindle. And it isn't even e-ink so the battery savings isn't big I don't see why anyone would ever want, or have a need this.
When I watched Daylight's promo video, I thought it was an e-ink display, as they marketed it as an solution for a faster e-ink so the price sounds less offensive. That looks like a total ripoff, they could at least be honest... It's a small company and lacks economics of scale but no reason to deceive the costumers
Highlights and underlines are better in colour. Maybe a software solution for an oled tablet which locked the display to pastels + rgb primaries and other key coulours, while washing out all other tones towards desaturation, would be the best of all worlds. It have to be an OS feature and be irreversable for a certain time period once set.
So they misled people into thinking it’s like e-ink when it’s literally just an LCD display with a matte screen? Why call it e-paper in the title if it’s not e-paper? What an incredible waste of money. 700 plus dollars for an android tablet with a 60hz black and white display. Most of the benefits of e-ink are not present in this display, e-ink uses next to 0 energy when displaying a static image (with the light off), the complete lack of blue light due to it not being an lcd, too many differences to even list. Just get an iPad Air, get a matte screen protector, set the display to black and white, it’s not the exact same but it’s close enough to what this is offering and you’d be getting a better tablet and tablet OS.
It's not an LCD display though. An LCD display uses a strong backlight to push light through twisting crystals to create RGB. This monitor instead, is T-LCD, which is completely different. It replaces the backlight with a reflective component so that it uses natural light instead. It also has some small tiny light emitting diodes next to the reflective sheet so that it can still be backlight. One famous example is the One laptop per child project. It uses that tech. There's some cons with T-LCD. The first, is contrast. The reason that the blacklight in LCD is blindingly bright is so that the crystals can be dense. That makes it display deep, solid color. Since natural light is weaker, the LCD part of T-LCD will use weaker, thinner crystals. They can't be as high-res either, as it cuts down on how much light can enter and be reflected out. I love this tech still, as it is a nice middle ground between E-ink and LCD. It allows outdoor computing, increase frame rates compared to E-ink (it's more like 4fps with ghosting issues).
To add, Epaper is a legally safe term. Epaper, a generic term, is often confused with E-ink. Many people call everything E-ink, which would be wrong. For example, the pebble watch is said to be a epaper display, but more accurately, uses a low power "Memory LCD" that's related to Casio watches. Also different.
My biggest work hurdle is reading through 100+ page specifications on ms word and needing to use the comment functionality for shared docs in ms teams. This looks like it would resolve that issue and I’ve been hesitant to commit to a boox note air. Have you tested either of these use cases/would you be willing to and give some feedback?
On iPad you can set it to be black and white screen. You can also adjust brightness to look more like this. Blue light is not as bad as advertising makes us think, but you can also remove it in iPad settings. When it comes to flickering, I recorded my iPad at 240 fps. Looking at this, frame by frame, I don’t see any changes in brightness or black bars (when I pointed at tv, it is not only visible, but very strong). With iPad you get far better product, and for lower price
nope, as a former rm2 user, I can say that it's too limited. the lack of third party apps is really a bummer. now using the Boox Note 3 Air C instead, with sound and notifications turned off. I'm thinking of selling my iPad Air.
There was once the Mirasol display that even brought colors to life but still fell through eventually. This one is at least on sale for everyone I guess.
Well, it sounds like if you took an iPad and forced it into grayscale you might get a similar experience. It actually relies mostly on back light even during the day, which kills the battery just like the LCDs do and as such you lose most of the qualities actual e-ink displays offer including battery life that drops from one month to a couple of days at best. It honestly sounds more like a scam.
They are using an rlcd with backlight so all problems with normal lcds will still be there… they could atleast have used sharps memory lcd if they are pricing it at 700+.
Greate review , I think this kind of display is just what was missing in the market: a non emisive LCD , I do believe it's the best of both worlds , if they manage to make it display all colors and give it faster hardware ( at the same price point ), it will sell like donuts.
Lets not forget TCL's color epaper in 2021 called NXTPAPER. And long ago sharp did the black and white transreflective displays called Memory LCD. This device looks really bad. Reminds me of the early days of ereaders which lack contrast.
Interesting. Very impressed with their solution. They should talk more about it because it is great problem solving. S/o to them. A bunch of people are trying to solve the digital minimalism problem and this is a great take on it.
They say they don’t use polarized filters, and the display is not layers on layers. So definitely not LCD. I would say something in between E-ink and LCD.
No it definitely is LCD. Layers don't matter what matters is that there's a liquid crystal inside that they are using to darken the display. This is a Transmissive and Reflective (Transflective) LCD. Smart watches have and calculators have had them for a long time.
Regular IPS’s don’t flicker as well. Just but any ebook from any brand (except for Kindle) and you will be fine. Just as opposed to the author of this video, who didn’t mark an advertisement as advertisement, which is not fine.
I would love to know how the integration with the Wacom pen works, I see this product being great for artists and I think that would be a great target for this product ❤ Especially if they incorporate an app that doesn't train LLMs with people's work. ( I am talking to you, Adobe 😒)
So let me see if I understand, a company creates a device that is supposed to run at 120hz using e-paper, instead, they give you a machine running at 60hz and not using e-ink (so they did not lie just mislead in this one) but an old fashioned LCD. My reaction,according to them, to a company trying to mislead me is "buy this product"?
I get visual migranes from too much screen time and they are terrible and drain me but I have to for work. I'm looking forward to monitors that are healthier for the eyes so I can do research and writing on one screen and social media management and content like this on the other. I'd also like to get my boyfriend this screen because his eyes are always red from coding all day and he already has poor vision.
Ink monitors are already on sale: Bigme B251 or Dasung 133 or ONYX BOOX Mira PRO/////Уже есть в продаже мониторы на чернилах: Bigme B251 или Dasung 133 или ONYX BOOX Mira PRO.
Luxury item. I like what they (seem to) stand for and trying to achieve, but I'm not going to spend twice* as much for something that seems to be offering half the performance just so that it can kill the potential for some of the distractions unless I have a bunch of money to spare (I don't). It's cheaper to get an iPad and free or premium apps/blockers to customize it to your needs. But I guess I'm also not the best target audience since my mind doesn't go crazy and reach for distractions when I want to read a book on iPad's kindle app lol. * The current price is a pre-order for "founder's edition" and includes accessories, so I'm not sure how the price will change afterwards, but I have a feeling it'll still lag largely behind.
Update: After receiving another review unit from Daylight today, the issues with Spark being slow/laggy have been fixed. It now works as intended.
Also, I realize that there wasn’t much outdoor footage throughout this review. I may make a longer term review with more outdoor use cases if people are genuinely interested.
That's greatly appreciated!
Do people really need it like it’s just kindle on steroids??
@@_haru007_ I would love a device where I can read my Kindle, but also write my journal, markdown PDFs, textbooks and reports, and type emails on. Yes, absolutely, we need a Kindle on steroids - one that is not bogged down by distractions.
I think a longer term review is necessary in this case as it is "new" technology, but what I think will be the most valuable addition is a comparison with e-note devices like the Remarkable and Onyx Boox devices that you mentioned briefly. This is maybe not within your typical target market of consumer electronics, but e-note devices are quite attractive for me personally and I think a large portion of knowledge workers share the same sentiments.
I think Daylight missed the mark with their misleading marketing and price - they kind of targeted standard readers and kind of targeted traditional tablets, but in my opinion they should have gone straight for the e-note market.
I think the tradeoff they made by not going the e-ink route is actually fine for e-note users considering the refresh rate improvements seem to be worth it. The screen still looks pretty decent from the videos I've seen, but it is difficult to get a proper grasp over how it compares to more direct competitors.
Would appreciate a review of outdoor usage. For this price, it needs serious consideration, so any additional review helps.
$299, and I'm considering it. $729 (the actual price), I'm gonna pass. Still stuck around for support!
Same!
Lenovo Tablet M11 is like 199 and is way better.
@@ermocrate ehm, it's just a tablet with ordinary backlit screen?
Waiting for better economies of scale to bring the price down. Better if competitors will help bring it to market.
And might consider it at ipad prices if you can draw on it like paper and it has color
Why $299? Just say $300, you're not on the marketing team lmao
Switch your Ipad screen to Grayscale mode and using a matte screen protector ! You can read under sunlight. AND IT'S FAST
A) The existence of the possibility to turn it back on - will always mess with your head.
B) Switching to grayscale + a matte screen doesn't solve the blue light and PWM (flicker)
C) Most importantly, the iPad will still have an emissive backlight that messes with circadian rhythms.
Do it in the SUN while you’re at it Einstein.
Edit: and RIP to your battery life.
Display in the video is not e-Ink. Joke is on me 💀.
@@drashyagoel5782and tis is also a really pointless product too, why do you need 60 hz for a e ink display, the point of it is supposed to be slow
If you have an iPad Pro with a matte screen protector, you can just toggle on the grayscale option, and not only will it save you battery, but keeps the 120 HZ that the Daylight advertised, and does whatever the daylight does BETTER. Seriously, I don’t know whats up with these companies thinking that just by selling the idea of a machine built around productivity, that they can cheap out on a device that should’ve been priced $200 considering all the components used.
Instead of focusing on the techy aspects, like weight, PPI and price, it would be more interesting to focus on the use cases.
Is the writing & sketching better than on iPad/rM2/Kindle Scribe? How is the reading experience, in nature and in the dark, compared to the other devices? Does it help you to stay focused for longer than a regular tablet?
Please consider these ideas when making a 2nd video about the DC1!
The price is steep, but if it helps you to be more productive and less distracted for 30 min per day, you will earn the money back easily.
calling it e-paper is grossly misleading if it’s not actually e-ink
depends. the reason we ditched reflective lcd in the first place is because it reflected a low amount of ambient light - epaper is much better in this respect. if their lcd technology has a high enough reflectivity, it's good (although it needs to be much cheaper)
@@purplelord8531 No e-paper is a technology term which describes a screen that can keep it's state even when the device loses power like paper.
@@purplelord8531 No e-paper is a technology term which describes a screen that can keep it's state even when the device loses power like paper.
@@asandax6 No it doesn't. Pebble for example commonly marketed its reflective LCD displays as e-paper and no one had a problem with that. Same with many other applications of RLCD. It's called e-paper because it doesn't emit light, like paper.
It doesn't emit light though and is usable in super bright outdoor light just like e-ink so I think calling it LCD would be even more confusing. When you look at it in person it looks just like e-ink, just with a higher refresh rate.
Being honest I don't care about the LCD controversy.
I'd like to know how the screen compares to other screens on eye fatigue
exactly! let's focus on their unique selling points!
Personally the advantage of E ink is the long battery life and the viewing angles so this seems pointless id rather a black and white OLED than LCD.
Transflective LCD typically means that they replaced the backlight layer behind the LCD with reflective layer. So now instead of light behind shining THROUGH the LCD, the light is now a "frontlight" that shined on top and reflected back. Think of it like those casio digital watch display, but have dense pixels grid like a screen instead of just number display.
Basically, the only difference between this and a traditional backlighted LCD is that it's reflective. It's just a downgraded lcd that doesn't do color and have poor contrast. It does not have the "paper-like" benefit of an e-ink (besides being reflective), like the extreme-viewing angles or retaining the "ink" when powered off mentioned in the video. For a device for reading, I can't say I care too much about the low refresh rate. The poor soc probably doesn't get much productive work done on this device anyway.
As for eye strain, DC dimming is certainly an advantage, but not every traditional backlighted LCD use PWM dimming. A lot of the ipads that uses plain old ips lcd does not have pwm dimming, or have very high-frequency pwm on lowest brightness setting (higher-frequency = less detectable = less strain). If you raise the brightness a bit the pwm will go away. Those ipad pros that have LCD with mini-led backlight or OLED does unfortunately have pwm dimming. Notebookcheck typically test for pwm flickering when they review their devices, you can check their website to see which devices uses pwm dimming if you're curious.
The 0 blue-light "frontlight' is also an advantage if you're sensitive to blue-light, but honestly I don't think I can read using the extreme amber light. You can blend in some of the "cool" white light to balance it out, but you'll be adding some blue-light back. And at that point there's not much different than the night shift or low blue-light mode on your phones or laptop which also help reduces blue-light
It cost more than a E-ink tablet more than an IPAD????????? has neither really the benefits of either LCD or E-INK?????
🤣 the worst of both world
i mean it has all the benefits of an lcd, and in this particular case i find it more appealing than e-ink, and niche first gen product may be expensive, but damn, its not that hard to say that you are making a better lcd to compete with e-ink
@@bazasgruntas Does it can reproduce colors like an LCD?
@@bazasgruntas I'll wait until they have a colored 60hz e-ink screen
That’s a really weird way to put it.
It actually has the benefits of BOTH E-ink and LCD, it’s 60hz and non emissive.
Of course it also has a couple drawbacks of both, but you framed it dishonestly as if it were only negatives.
I agree on the shortcomings of this product but I feel people are way too quick to beat down on the company. It is only in our interest to have another tech company because the more of them there are, the greater the competition. Of course this 1st gen product is far from ideal and the price is too high to be viable long term but hopefully they will take all of our feedback on board and make it even better. I know I can live without a gadget like this but I know I am a victim of mindless social media consumption and would like to have something that make it easier on the mind.
Well, maybe they should try to make a great product, instead of bullshitting people. This is a cut down android tablet with an LCD screen with a reflective back. You know what LCD started with? A reflective back. It wasn't "white", but that mostly just the color of the coating. This company is trying to sell a cheap as shit product for an insane price by dazzling people with a fancy website and misleading wording.
@@GoBBLeS666 they have clarified on this already, you are just stating the obvious.
@@grandcalifornia8410 Yet they keep trying to bullshit people.
Company is in shambles. Saw their launch event. CEO spent 10 minutes talking about guru like bullshit instead of showing the product. Video now taken down from youtube.
Display is not e-ink, as their marketing is kind of trying to make people think. Waiting for MKBHD to "destroy" them
Yeah, from the get-go, the company did have a major Humane/Rabbit vibe. The lack of details about the company itself on their website, lack of technical papers about their rebranded display tech - it was giving shady.
Although after the whole Humane debacle, I am sceptical they will send a review unit to MKBHD
I watched that video and I was impressed at first and liked his charisma, but then as it went on it just devolved into a some weird tech enlightenment cult vibe. Their marketing is just so misleading I think it has effectively buried them already. New brands need to build trust, and right now they have started themselves in a really poor position.
How is “like e-ink, but better” deceptive?
I also waiting for JerryRigEverything to rip this thing apart and seeing what's actually inside the screen
@@rfichokeofdestinyit’s deceptive when there is no where in their website that specific what the technology actually is rather than “e-ink but better” or “live paper display”. In Specs page you literally should list out the specs, instead of only the marketing terms.
$729?? Man this company is doomed.
I was gonna watch the video until the first comment, yours, was shown. That’s ridiculous. No reason to even hear it out.
Not really. I’m not saying it’s cheap but it’s definitely a niche product with a specific market segment. I mean they 4 batches each is a 1000 units (I believe), So that’s not bad for the first GEN product in a niche market.
It's competing with the Boox Tab Ultra C pro at least. It's not really fair to compare everything to the iPad in specs. This is a niche product that overcomes E-ink shortcomings.
@@FreeRangeLemonit’s pure comedy how poorly this device is being launched.
729$ and with that processor! God!!!
The Kindle is not "locked" to the Amazon store, just plug it into your computer via USB and you can drop (compatible) files onto it. One of my favorite things is to put PDFs onto it.
shouldve explored the use case of using it outdoors for a more charitable viewpoint
Fair point. I may have understated the importance of being able to use it outdoors.
But at the same time, I found it tough to adapt this device to the way I like to work (with a keyboard), and the lack of a stand/keyboard did not make it easy.
@@JoshuaChang Yes you really understated the main point of the product. And I think that's why they don't want to say it's an LCD because people are ignorant and will say "ah it's just a transflective LCD" when it's clearly not your average transflective LCD
Glad to finally see a real look at this tablet. I'm really intrigued by it, even with the downsides you mentioned. I think it's great that a company is thinking outside of the box a bit and giving us options aside from the now-formulaic tablet recipe. It's refreshing, and I hope they do well. I'll be interested in picking one of these up (or the successor) at some point down the line.
Ford used transreflective display technology for the Aerostar instrument panel displays digital segments in the late 80s/early 90s. They looked good back-lit as well as being hit by direct sunlight. Unfortunately, they were not AMLCDs and had low contrast ratio, so they suffered from poor off-angle viewing. I suffer from migraine with aura, so I'm glad someone is concerned with the PWM light issues people like me face. More than often, GM (and others) taillights, Hyundai headlights will trigger a migraine while driving. I wish they would "smooth" away the flicker by using resistance to dim and/or capacitance to buffer that annoying output. Thanks for covering this product with all its pros and cons. 😊👍
I WANT ONE OF THESE!!!!
I love my Remarkeable. Having a paper-like display completely changes the loopback with your brain receptors, you don't want to go on instagram as much, you're not like a moth to the flame, it's easier to just use it to read or write notes and put it back down.
In fact, one good feature of the Remarkeable is that it DOESN'T have Android so you CAN'T do those other things. I would like a locked-down version of the Daylight maybe.
For displays: I was initially excited by this display, until I realized I have a display that is like the Daylight DC-1's, but better. The Pixel QI displays had two modes: A transreflective LCD that could be switched to a full-color mode if needed.
The device? OLPC XO-1.
This thing is a game-changer! The Live Paper display is so cool, and the Helio G99 packs a punch. Definitely considering getting one.
729$ ? I expected it to be 150$
Your even handedness but dedication to honesty is incredible. Instant subscription from me!
Loved your review. It is an honest look at the current situation and an honest look at the product that actually tells you what you are getting yourself into.
Should have explained what technology it was using at the start instead of being "mysterious" throughout the video
And it wasn’t even “deceptive.” Not to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together anyway.
Excellent review! Great job Joshua. Your research into the difference between e-ink and RLCD is extremely helpful. Daylight appears to have tried to pull a fast one on consumers.
I appreciate the company's purpose and the purpose of the device itself, but given the breakdown of hardware and tech they are putting into it - $730 is just not a good price, it should be way cheaper. The reason e-Ink tablets are so expensive is because of the royalties they have to pay to the e-Ink patent holder - maybe that's the same issue Daylight is facing with their display?
Also, how do they not have a keyboard to ship when some of their core marketing material features one? [It appears on the link preview every time I share their website]
They can’t be paying royalties for e-ink because there is no e-ink technology. I think the price comes from low volume manufacturing on a new display they developed.
If it's got a backlight, it's gonna hurt the eyes similar to an lcd/oled.
E-ink displays don't hurt the eyes because the light is above the display shining towards the screen to illuminate it, instead of behind the display shining through it directly into your eyes.
Thanks a TON, Joshua! That was a very, very informational review! Kudos for solving that "LivePaper" mystery.
8:52
Any battery testing? What is the justification around PPI and choice of processor compared to price? With PPI - I’m thinking screen hardware limitations with added changes in the Transflective LCD screen layer.
Great work by daylight on releasing such an amazing device and super contribution bu mediatek
Really appreciated seeing the side-by-side comparison of the Kindle and Daylight DC1! Super helpful!
I want e-ink on a device named e-paper, otherwise I'm out.
The combination of the Helio G99 chip and the amber backlight makes the Daylight Computer 1 so easy on the eyes. I can work for hours without strain!
Wow, even considering that I’m probably more technically inclined than the average consumer I completely was bamboozled into thinking it’s “like eink but better”. Knowing now it’s just lcd makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks
Daylight is good. The people who are interested in this are people who are keen on doing real study and deep work and actively want to avoid an iPad.
I understand their position to be vague about the display type. If they mention some obscure name susch as translective lcd people will only get confused. Instead they compare it to e-ink, which is well known and established technology.
The Daylight Computer 1 is perfect for focused work! The Helio G99 chip keeps it fast and responsive, making it ideal for my productivity needs.
Great review man, I watched the saturday startup stories vid with the CEO and could tell there was a lot of marketing BS. I will say I'm still intrigued, so will be doing much more research. Solid video production 👌 it's my first time on your channel.
Odd question but what font did you use for the text at 2:07 "Introducing Daylight - a healthier, more human-friendly computer"? And Great video!
That was just a screen recording from their website 😅
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to be very similar to “Alexon RR Light Regular.”
It's ABC Arizona from Dinamo
Dude, their website and marketing is just 🔥 I was blown away by their website! I mean, they might be scammy, but they know how to market. Like.. damn!
At 9:06 "Transflective LCDs have been around since the early 2000's"
Since at least the early 90's. For example, the 1996 Apple's MessagePad 130 used a transflective LCD. There were other devices before that: watches, calculators, perhaps even notebooks and tablets. I guess transflective LCDs have existed for almost as old as LCDs themselves.
I use Boox Tab Ultra C with color E-Ink screen and it's the best.
Great review, the low resolution seems like a problem!
Wow!
I will be waiting for your review!!
Joshua, you made a nice episode. You sound and your mannerisms are a lot like Marques Brownlee's. Are you two from the same area?
Thanks for the review, first time I see this device, but after watching I still don't know a thing about it, not even what pen tech it uses or whether the backlight can be tuened off? I guess it can, the technology allows... Does it have its own apps? Like... anything apart from what display type it is...?
Can you show it next to a Remarkable 2? Does it have better contrast than Hisense Q5, which is RLCD?
I love that you are real and you done your homework.
Great unbiased review! Very refreshing to see. Love how you presented both sides and and ultimately left the viewer/consumer to decide. Thank you. You have a new subscriber. :)
Lol unbiased review that took TWO MINUTES before saying that it's not e-ink.
I dodged a bullet on this. i saw their announcement in hacker news and was blown away thinking it was 60fps eink so Immediatly placed an order. But then the red flags started piling up. The hippie vibe in all their promo and hands on videos with half naked people in yoga pants using a spectrometer on a book 😅 and comparing it to the daylight. The poor viewing angles and how dark it was under direct sunlight worried me so I started doing some research and found out it was just a RLCD. I felt completelly scammed so I canceled my order right away. After seeing your review Im super glad I did it and purchased a boox tab ultra instead
@andvaribekho Your story is exactly the same as mine. Did they give you your money back?
Yes I got My money back
@@andvaribekhoCongrats. I have not yet. Please, how have you cancelled your order? Simply by sending them e-mail? Or on the webpage somehow? Thanks a lot 🍀
See their CEO’s answers on that thread. It’s full of smelly red flags.
@@e79905 Oh. Where?
They piqued my interest when I fist saw this promoted, but the more I looked into it the more sketchy it seemed. I found the CEO praising bitcoin and most of the videos were him going on like a motivational speaker instead of showing off the product. Set off a bunch of red lights for me. If they had a new tech they would be selling it and not a device. The PPI being that low is a joke.
Then the tablet is not for you and you are not the target group, which is completely ok. Bitcoin is the future, what's wrong with that?
IMO high refresh rate E-paper is a marketting ploy - Rather than playing to it's strengths it's just become an inferior LCD display, with a higher price usually and still way less usable for normal display tasks:
Things I WANT E-Paper developers to focus on:
- Color Reproduction
- Low/No power Stability (Can't get 60hz out of that anyways!)
- Manufacturing Cost
We need to get it out of our head that these are supposed to be replacements for normal displays.
They'll never be that, and by the time they get close, they'll just be missing everything that makes E-paper good anyways.
I agree. Still refresh rate is a big thing. Not to watch movies but for us who want a digital sketch book.
Even color I would put lower I need than refresh rate.
And this is not to scroll stuff or watch movies but to have a smooth drawing experience.
Same with resolution. I rather take even higher black and white res over color
Still I get that if you use it more for pure not taking and reading then color can be good still I see the need of color mostly for annotation and hilighting
Color for me really is only needed for comics.
Again different use cases. Just wanted to point out my use case.
@@litjellyfish I just like to think of the current best, cheapest usage for E-paper: You actually see it as price-tags in stores. Near completely static, powerless; but still updateable. Makes me wonder if we could have houses with E-Paper wallpaper in the future - low refresh rate, but can paint any pattern in any color at a moment's notice, and it will stick without power usage... now THAT is e-paper
If it cant even do email, what have you been able to do with it? I'm genuinely interested cuz they market it as having spotify and some other apps preinstalled but i feel like email is one of the most basic tasks and its scary that its struggling with that.
If you use Gmail on Chrome you can achieve email. The issue is that this guy decides to use the most resource-intensive app
@@saantii Seems like he received a new testing unit and the app was working just fine on that one.
@@drashyagoel5782 thanks for the heads up
Please let me know when they will release the colour version.
What is the writing experience compared to eInk? What about integration with OneNote?
I'm so excited for the Daylight Computer 1! The Mediatek Helio G99 is going to make it a powerhouse.
Their website is absurd, whenever I open it, my CPU usage shoots up to 100% from like 5%. What the hell
Yeah they went way overboard on the dynamic scrolling thing. It's unusable.
Its called crypto mining
Wouldn't it increase the battery use?
I am kind of confused by the confusion. They say it isn’t e-ink. They keep saying it isn’t e-ink. What is confusing about that? I’m going to buy one I think and this is the first hands-on review I’fe seen. Would like to see handwriting comparison with Remarkable 2 or other (actual) e-ink.
If they can improve the contrast, and put it on a laptop like the Pixel Qi, I'd be very interested. If they can have the option of color LCD turned on or off, like Pixel Qi, that would be even better. Otherwise, what does this do, that Pixel Qi didn't do?
I think the 60 to 120 hz is the range for the refresh rate. While 60 FPS is the frames per second on the display. Two different things. I think.
Nice review, but I think it's marketed as a Remarkable alternative, not an iPad alternative.
Thanks for the explanations!
so it's the same screen from gameboy. i was about to check their website but i guess im going to stick with my ReMarkable
I don't think this is necessary. If I need a nice display to work on, or to consume content I will use my iPad. It has a beautiful, crisp colour display that helps me get stuff done efficiently. If I want to read. I will use my kindle. It is great one the eyes for reading and I love the paper like effect. I DO NOT want to be trying to work on a Kindle-like thing, I DO NOT want to watch movies on a kindle. And it isn't even e-ink so the battery savings isn't big I don't see why anyone would ever want, or have a need this.
When I watched Daylight's promo video, I thought it was an e-ink display, as they marketed it as an solution for a faster e-ink so the price sounds less offensive. That looks like a total ripoff, they could at least be honest... It's a small company and lacks economics of scale but no reason to deceive the costumers
Thank you for looking out for people and calling out that this isn’t E-Ink
Highlights and underlines are better in colour. Maybe a software solution for an oled tablet which locked the display to pastels + rgb primaries and other key coulours, while washing out all other tones towards desaturation, would be the best of all worlds. It have to be an OS feature and be irreversable for a certain time period once set.
So they misled people into thinking it’s like e-ink when it’s literally just an LCD display with a matte screen? Why call it e-paper in the title if it’s not e-paper? What an incredible waste of money. 700 plus dollars for an android tablet with a 60hz black and white display. Most of the benefits of e-ink are not present in this display, e-ink uses next to 0 energy when displaying a static image (with the light off), the complete lack of blue light due to it not being an lcd, too many differences to even list.
Just get an iPad Air, get a matte screen protector, set the display to black and white, it’s not the exact same but it’s close enough to what this is offering and you’d be getting a better tablet and tablet OS.
It's not an LCD display though. An LCD display uses a strong backlight to push light through twisting crystals to create RGB.
This monitor instead, is T-LCD, which is completely different. It replaces the backlight with a reflective component so that it uses natural light instead. It also has some small tiny light emitting diodes next to the reflective sheet so that it can still be backlight. One famous example is the One laptop per child project. It uses that tech.
There's some cons with T-LCD. The first, is contrast. The reason that the blacklight in LCD is blindingly bright is so that the crystals can be dense. That makes it display deep, solid color. Since natural light is weaker, the LCD part of T-LCD will use weaker, thinner crystals. They can't be as high-res either, as it cuts down on how much light can enter and be reflected out.
I love this tech still, as it is a nice middle ground between E-ink and LCD. It allows outdoor computing, increase frame rates compared to E-ink (it's more like 4fps with ghosting issues).
To add, Epaper is a legally safe term. Epaper, a generic term, is often confused with E-ink. Many people call everything E-ink, which would be wrong. For example, the pebble watch is said to be a epaper display, but more accurately, uses a low power "Memory LCD" that's related to Casio watches. Also different.
My biggest work hurdle is reading through 100+ page specifications on ms word and needing to use the comment functionality for shared docs in ms teams. This looks like it would resolve that issue and I’ve been hesitant to commit to a boox note air. Have you tested either of these use cases/would you be willing to and give some feedback?
Also your review was wonderful!!
On iPad you can set it to be black and white screen. You can also adjust brightness to look more like this. Blue light is not as bad as advertising makes us think, but you can also remove it in iPad settings. When it comes to flickering, I recorded my iPad at 240 fps. Looking at this, frame by frame, I don’t see any changes in brightness or black bars (when I pointed at tv, it is not only visible, but very strong). With iPad you get far better product, and for lower price
Imagine how knowledgeable you must be that you think iPad can remove the blue light 😂😂
Great video! I wasn't sure what this product truly was, I know now ty 🔥
Great review 👍🏼
So great!!! Love this review. Thank you so much!!
I feel like this will just bring more attention to the remarkable 2, which is even more limited but very much what their market wants
nope, as a former rm2 user, I can say that it's too limited. the lack of third party apps is really a bummer.
now using the Boox Note 3 Air C instead, with sound and notifications turned off. I'm thinking of selling my iPad Air.
I'm looking at my Polar smart watch, it is just that same tech?
There was once the Mirasol display that even brought colors to life but still fell through eventually.
This one is at least on sale for everyone I guess.
Wouldn't mind a 40 inch paper-like screen for my computer.
Well, it sounds like if you took an iPad and forced it into grayscale you might get a similar experience. It actually relies mostly on back light even during the day, which kills the battery just like the LCDs do and as such you lose most of the qualities actual e-ink displays offer including battery life that drops from one month to a couple of days at best. It honestly sounds more like a scam.
Amazing review!
They are using an rlcd with backlight so all problems with normal lcds will still be there… they could atleast have used sharps memory lcd if they are pricing it at 700+.
Doesn’t this defeat the long battery life purpose though?
How long does this tablet hold a charge?
A few days, because you know, its e-ink. Well unless youre very addictive to it even as e-ink like my cousin, so for him, a day.
Greate review , I think this kind of display is just what was missing in the market: a non emisive LCD , I do believe it's the best of both worlds , if they manage to make it display all colors and give it faster hardware ( at the same price point ), it will sell like donuts.
Use iPad with greyscale and lower power mode on. What is the racing game being played?
Appstore??? or Playstore???
is it like TCL NXPAPER 11, which I have?
Lets not forget TCL's color epaper in 2021 called NXTPAPER. And long ago sharp did the black and white transreflective displays called Memory LCD. This device looks really bad. Reminds me of the early days of ereaders which lack contrast.
Excellent review. When it launched, due to the misleading marketing, I almost fell for it and took the bait. Next, please.
Interesting. Very impressed with their solution. They should talk more about it because it is great problem solving. S/o to them. A bunch of people are trying to solve the digital minimalism problem and this is a great take on it.
Oh man, this ghost free LCD Transflective tech shrunk down for gameboys would be dope
They say they don’t use polarized filters, and the display is not layers on layers. So definitely not LCD. I would say something in between E-ink and LCD.
No it definitely is LCD. Layers don't matter what matters is that there's a liquid crystal inside that they are using to darken the display. This is a Transmissive and Reflective (Transflective) LCD. Smart watches have and calculators have had them for a long time.
As long as it has a refresh rate, it is no good for your eyes. Refresh rate is what strains your eyes. Not for reading for sure like a kindle.
I’ve been wanting an e ink type tablet but every time a company comes around with a nice one the prices are always delusional
Very respectable review. Personally, considerimg Hisense A9.
great review
It is a transflective LCD (aka, lcd that reflects the light of the ambient you’re in) with a Matt coding on top. Not e-ink. You’re welcome.
Regular IPS’s don’t flicker as well. Just but any ebook from any brand (except for Kindle) and you will be fine. Just as opposed to the author of this video, who didn’t mark an advertisement as advertisement, which is not fine.
Whether you realize it or not, the flicker and blue light affects everyone. It really is that detrimental to health.
I would love to know how the integration with the Wacom pen works, I see this product being great for artists and I think that would be a great target for this product ❤ Especially if they incorporate an app that doesn't train LLMs with people's work. ( I am talking to you, Adobe 😒)
It’s standard EMR. Like most e ink tablets have. ATM with the contrast and slow cpu it has little over the other e ink Android tablets with Wacom tech
So let me see if I understand, a company creates a device that is supposed to run at 120hz using e-paper, instead, they give you a machine running at 60hz and not using e-ink (so they did not lie just mislead in this one) but an old fashioned LCD. My reaction,according to them, to a company trying to mislead me is "buy this product"?
I get visual migranes from too much screen time and they are terrible and drain me but I have to for work. I'm looking forward to monitors that are healthier for the eyes so I can do research and writing on one screen and social media management and content like this on the other. I'd also like to get my boyfriend this screen because his eyes are always red from coding all day and he already has poor vision.
Ink monitors are already on sale: Bigme B251 or Dasung 133 or ONYX BOOX Mira PRO/////Уже есть в продаже мониторы на чернилах: Bigme B251 или Dasung 133 или ONYX BOOX Mira PRO.
Luxury item. I like what they (seem to) stand for and trying to achieve, but I'm not going to spend twice* as much for something that seems to be offering half the performance just so that it can kill the potential for some of the distractions unless I have a bunch of money to spare (I don't). It's cheaper to get an iPad and free or premium apps/blockers to customize it to your needs. But I guess I'm also not the best target audience since my mind doesn't go crazy and reach for distractions when I want to read a book on iPad's kindle app lol.
* The current price is a pre-order for "founder's edition" and includes accessories, so I'm not sure how the price will change afterwards, but I have a feeling it'll still lag largely behind.
My jaw dropped after the price mention lol
729? A Hileo G99? That incredible！That's only worth 329！