Metal Shaping for Beginners: How to make a Hammer form
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- www.proshaper.com
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How to make a Hammer Form!
In this video Wray shows us how he makes a hammer form copy buck. It's a nice tool to use when you have a few complex shapes that have to measure and fit right. Last week Wray made the wire form that would be able to fit under the gas tank so it would act as rebar does for cement. Once we have the location, Wray adds 2 shims to raise the wire form a little from the gas tank so that he can add bondo to get the shape precise.
Email: Wray@Proshaper.com
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Best of luck to Alison and the band.
Meanwhile Wray is putting out more metal than Iron Maiden 😊👍
Great technique to stop the warpage. Thanks again Wray these videos are like gold with the information you give us. Take care and keep them coming. Love your work
Hello Wray you saved me from building a wood buck thanks. Gave me confidence to attack that stubborn clay thanks. You showed me how to build aluminum body car thanks. Made some tools out of old hammers thanks.....I can go on all day long. Thanks to your a advice I am building a 1.5mm steel buck classic car form and its shaping up quite well. Will put no bondo on it now for sure. I've still got a lot to learn, going back to the stump. Hay a nice day and keep on making these very helpful videos.
My dad only used lead as a filler in his shop, so one day back in the '60s I sneaked a can of 'cold solder' (Bondo) into the side room to try it on my '56 Chevy. I no sooner got the lid off of it when I heard him yell from the other side of the building, "Get that sh*t outa' my shop, and you go with it."
🤣🤣🤣🤣 A very strong smell for those who have a 'nose' for it! 👃
That was very interesting thanks so much for your teaching . Love your channel
Ray, that bracket at the rear of the tank is most likely for a tab that is a part of the seat pan that locates the seat. Another great video by the way! Cheers, Doug
Finally someone that agrees that using bondo is "giving up" and not finishing the job properly.....!!!
So many restoration/build videos these days, that go to the effort of making a panel, then they use filler to cover up their impatience!!
Bondo is for low budgets, lack of metal shaping skills, and short time budgets. That's my new T-shirt!!! I'll get Mark on it tomorrow.
@@proshaper I have a mate that im trying to convince to watch your English wheel videos, he has almost completed building his custom car. All the body work has been done by hand with hammer/dolley. Its as smooth as a babies bum, but it has taken him along time and several minor heart attacks.
Checked out Allison’s song. It’s a great song and her voice is awesome. I wish her much success.
Thanks! She has a lot of songs on TH-cam. Check out The Chain featuring Alison McTavish and Oui Maja. Older stuff is under Alison Schelin. You will be impressed.
A Bondorific episode. Thanks Wray.
Wray: “Hopefully the gods smile on us...”
The gods: “Just leave us out of this one!”
Hey Ray, Do you have a follow up video where your'e actually fabing the tank's inner and outer skins and then welding them together? T.I.A
i can only assume the bondo fumes were getting to you when you made that obscure al Capone geraldo rivera comment, thank goodness us young folks have google LoL These videos are pure gold thanks for sharing with us Wray!
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you sir
GREAT IDEA!
Awesome video
Excellent idea. I used this method, but completely filled in to make a buck for a plastic off road motorcycle tank. It is very narrow, with lots of internal detail. After trimming, I welded it to a flat plate to make a really user friendly. After making the 1st tunnel to t fit the buck, I’ve made a flexible shape pattern to make subsequent panels easier. Thanks for the brilliant videos.
I did something similar with a wire reinforcement but used expanding foam over plastic wrap as opposed to poly filler. Once it cured I threw some clear over it and it was rock hard. It was for some weird VW flares and engine cover from the 60s that were thin glass that was delaminated and we did them in steel.
Genius idea!! Thanks again for sharing.
Great video Wray. I used your technique to make hammer forms to fabricate aluminum bumpers for a 63 Impala. Works great. Thank you!
I keep learning ,thank you . I found you from Karl Fishers ,make it kustom channel!
Nicely done! I can use this idea and process to duplicate the finger ridges on a steering wheel that I want to duplicate with a smaller diameter!
You were hilarious tonight Wray ... must have been the fumes!
Wray, you are definitely a master of metal but I have some advice. I have a ton of experience with composite materials and if the part is still hot I would leave it as that means the chemical reaction is still happening. There is a great possibility that the part can warp if you take it off while it is still curing. As you probably know, polyester resin based fillers will keep curing and heat is a bi-product of the chemical process. I would also warn everyone that you should not try this in a cold shop. The cold temps will prevent full cure or even stop the cure completely. I have had composite (fiberglass) parts that were done in cooler weather essentially start to kick again once exposed to heat. You can smell it months later.
BTW...This stuff does not only smell. It is actually hazardous to your health. I suggest using a respirator even though most folks skip that step.
The molding came out perfect. I have made hundreds of these. A painter started working at my grandfather's restoration shop around 1969, at that time he had just retired from a lifetime of working in autobody shops. He was exposed to lead, bondo, paint fumes, and body shop dust his whole life. He drank whisky, chewed tobacco, and smoked. He started restoring horse drawn snow sleighs at his house when he was 95. He lived to 102. At 102 he was still alert, had a full head of hair and his sense of humor was still intact.
@@proshaper The old "Smoker's Defence". Not that there are many "old smokers". Dead smokers tend not to be able to tell their stories. TH-cam channels really shouldn't promote unsafe practises. Not a "Safety Nazi" just have a social conscience. Love your channel and generosity in spreading knowledge. Cheers from Oz.
@@paultrgnp Coming from a Generation that was taught the trade by guys that wet-sanded enamel with gasoline, while smoking, frequently had a beer on the paint mix stand in the booth, and various other Safety no-no's, it's my theory the cigarette filter helped with the dust. :D. Then again that same instructor would loose his thread of conversation during a lesson, pause, wait for a student to repeat the last 4-5 words he had said, and would be off again.
Hello! I noticed that your videos began to have subtitles in russian, for this special thanks to you!
Such a satisfying sound when it first started to pop loose.
Another very satisfying vid thanks
Plaster is used in the aircraft industry for about the same thing you used the body filler for. The wire could be used the same way, or aspen fibers that are used in evaporative cooler pads work well. pour a thin mixture of plaster on the tank and let it set for about twenty minutes then mix more plaster and add the aspen fibers, slop it on and let it dry. You can buy a hundred pound bag of plaster for less than you paid for the body filler. I spent a lot of years as a plaster pattern maker.
The plaster would not stand up to the clamping and light hammering.
@@proshaper I'm sorry, not the stuff they use for wall plaques. "Hydrocal" it has cement in it and dries quite hard. I don't know what the cement to plaster ratio is but you can bang on it pretty hard and it sets up in about 30 minutes. I think it would be worth a try and you could use pieces of 1/4" screen tied together with tag wire instead of welding the rod for reinforcement.
Ziplock bag makes a very good applicator. I use it to spread bonding adhesive to join fiberglas corvette panels.
Great idea, thanks for sharing
Had a 1934 SS Jag in England back in the '70's...that I bought for $200.00. All there, got it running but couldn't find an axle. Had to return to the states; 1-A, draft lottery # 2. You just inspired me to build one...hell, why not. I'm just a lad of 69. Dream big, Right !? I just discovered Your channel...watched two episodes, so one more and I'm ready to buy everything you have there in yer shop, roll up my sleeves and get after it. Whaddya think; 6 months, tops...right !?
Hi Philip, I'm a month away from 70 and I'm just getting warmed up.😁😁😁
@@proshaper Hah ! Perfect ! Although on 2nd thought, (after watching you turn a flat piece of metal into a deep-curve fender on your Italian Mallet in 29 minutes) I'm going to save up for a plane ticket and your class...when things open up a bit more...and there's room ! Thanks again: you are an artist, indeed.
Oh, yeah: I'm a timber frame/custom home builder, so I have a little hands-on experience with beating stuff with a hammer, cutting, mixing, shaping...but mostly stone, wood, concrete...not so much metal aside from the odd copper gutters, counter tops, etc. And thanks also for spelling my first name with one "L", too, by the way.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way about wooden bucks ha
Wray. Try useing gloves grab a batch and start jamming it in there and with pressure avoid air pockets. Try Dupont Teflon spray can release agent good stuff.
Great video, Wray!
Your metal working skills are amazing but watching you mix bondo made me want to pull my hair out.
If you add fiberglass resin in the bindi mix it will thin it down to where you can pour it in and it will get in all the nooks and crannies.
Hi Shawn, I learned that trick 50 years ago😁😁😁 The form for the tank tunnel worked perfect!
Thank you so much, I needed this information. God Bless!!!
Awesome technique
Thank You for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Metal fabrication fascinates
me. Having MG TD , A and B , my question to you is at age of 81 am I too old to learn this !
Thank You for all your
Knowledge.
My oldest student so far is Walter he was 84 when he took my class. He was one of the best students at that class.
Great video. Could you also first coat the whole area with a thin layer of bondo to gently take on all the curves, let it go off and then lay in the re-inforcement buck? You might get a smoother finish with no voids.
The method I used worked perfectly. I have 20 years of experience making them the way I showed. I'm sure the method you suggested would work very well.
You’re awesome sir!
Love it
thanks for the knowledge :) Godspeed
thanks Wray. hope all's well.
Hi Eddie, all is well, looking forward to better days. Classes have been going on as scheduled.
@@proshaper good to hear Wray. stay safe up there!
well done Wray! Plus it's in camo color.
Wray. You made me chuckle about the smell ! I love the smell and l've never suffered from a headache . But the Mrs. has given me plenty of headaches about the smell !😂😂😂
Is it too obvious to ask could it not have been repaired by soldering ? Steel or Aluminium ? Thanks Wray.
Hi John, The tank was made of some blow molded plastic. The owner has dealt with leaks several times, he wants steel.
@@proshaper No need to ask what metal you'd rather use !! Thanks Wray.
In an attempt to make a hammer form buck in the same manner, I would try using Epoxy Resin with powdered Aluminium. This method of using Epoxy/Aluminium powder was used to make molds for blow molding of plastic Wind Surfers back in the 1980's.
The molded buck worked perfect.
@@proshaper Hi, thinking about the bucks for XK jaguar body panels. Why didn't you take molds in fibreglass of the original panels with braces to keep the shape constant without distortion. You could have divided the panels into predetermined centre's and cut 25mm wide sections to get contours to reproduce the original panel contours exactly. As for the buck in the video. To make a template, same method but with 3 layers of 1.1/2 oz chopped stand matt with about a litre polyester resin would have had the same outcome but without voids, no reinforcing required if you only wanted to check the dimensional shape. The final shape would be about 3mm thick. I'm not being critical just curious.
@@000gjb there are at least four good to excellent ways of doing any human task. I considered all of the ways and decided to use the method I showed in the video. I made XK panels for over 25 years using the bucks I had made. They worked perfect, I never had a complaint or a return of a panel. The method is quick and inexpensive. Enough said.
Just a thought, you can totally avoid using wax at all if you put Aluminum foil tape or even masking tape and a thin coat of Vaseline down, squeegee it down. It will of course offset your mold by the thickness of the tape. but that is not much.
The wax takes minutes, I have never had a failure.😁
Great Content👍👍
Just curious could you make a fiberglass mold then fill out with the bondo glass?
Nice technique. I thinking how about using a pastry bag to apply bondo? Also may some tabs, or a tab welded to the frame so you could mount it to a stand or vise?
Getting the bondo in a pastry bag I would think is more difficult than working it around the wireform. I have made 100s of these bondo wireforms a lot of them I did add legs and supports. This one will be used as a alignment tool for the panels with minimal hammering on the mold.
cool idea
You could make them out of fiberglass also and no need for the wire.
That part under the end of the tank might possibly be for the seat to slide into then the seat will bolt onto the rear fender. If your making the tank from metal you can probably ad the mount after.
Thanks, I'll have to check.
@@proshaper By the way, is it possible to see the results of the rust removal fender? Or did you finish it off?
I always start out with a bigger pile of bondo than that. I use a cement mixer.
Great Job as always Wray thanks for sharing, will you share with us the making of the tank please?
I have a lot made already, but I will show the development.
@@proshaper Great looking forward to them to help me on with one of my projects, thanks
My dad always called it hair, the filler with fiberglass in it.
Question... why not make a thick fiberglass mold? Seems much easier. it could easily be made 1/4 inch thick and take a lot of hammering punishment.
Th e mold I made in the video worked perfect. I have been making this type of mold for over 20 years.
It appears that bondo fumes make Wray a little happy/loopy.
Spraying lacquer paint is the best!
Great as usual. This Im looking forwards to watching , off to make some more coffee and a slice of toast and settle into this video , its the sort of stuff I am setting up for. BRB, lol
I hope this is the start of a series of videos on this project , without being rude , how on earth do you price a job like this , its going to have so many twists and turns and a lot of hours , not much materials costs , just labour costs and lots of it , ?
I was wondering the same thing. If I had to quote that, it would be at least a $2,000 gas tank and I would still lose my rear end on it.
Time and material.
I support the use of "bucks" but to put blame for gasoline damage to the paint on a plastic tank is to ignore the that the true culprit was a crappy filler cap and that the tanks shape may be at fault as well;.but hammer on
that is an awesome video. i have a technical question. it sounds like you pretty routinely hammer on the buck. is this just adjustment hammering or can you use the buck directly as a forming buck using hammers. i may not have expressed this well but i hope i did. i live in ct and one day will see if visiting your facility is possible. thanx for the excellent videos. dave l
This buck was made for measuring and slight tweaking. It worked perfect.
Wray, I was always curious about this concept. I was thinking about making a form to make a negative then make a positive because I have to make a buck or form for a 55 Chevy Nomad iner rear fender around the back tailgate and C piller area. That I know of, no one makes that metal part area. If you know of anyone please let me know.
I'm building a Nomad from a regular 210 2door wagon and have an orginal 55 Nomad I restored since 1974 so I do have a perfect mold to work from.
Do you have a video working with the bondo form to make the sheet metal shape or are you planning on making one.
I live in CT and have to stop up to your shop some time. Your videos are very informative and I love learning your techniques.
Wouldn't it be easier to wax the tank and use fiberglass for the top of the buck then use the wire frame and bondo it in with less bondo? I'm not a professional but just asking. I love the vids. Learned lots. Steve
I have used the method I showed in the video at least 100 times through the years, it always works, and is super strong and accurate.
@@proshaper Thanks for the reply. I was just thinking of adding the fiberglass with gelcoat as the base to get an even smoother image then adding the wire and bondo for strength.
Interesting concept Wray. Speaking of Bondo smell ............it must be equally pungent when tacking the parts up on it ! lol
Hi Andy, You put thin copper where you are going to tack. Same thing happens when you tack on wood inner body structure.
@@proshaper Gotcha.................but that takes all the fun out of it :)
I've had my English wheel build on pause cause I'm busy plus you didn't have all the rest of the components ready. Now that you have the wheel and anvils I need to get back on it and order the rest of the parts. Do you have any plans for a power hammer? I've been thinking I want to build a power hammer next. So much more efficient and versatile.
Yes. I have a power hammer mechanism plan and frame plan that I will do later this year.
@@proshaper sweet, looking forward to it and more of your awesome tutorial videos!
Wray, would the bondo warp you experienced before the use of the steel cause a change in the area value of the mold, or just the arrangement?
Because the bondo is embedded in 1/4" steel rod it doesn't distort.
@@proshaper got that. I just did one without the steel and I warped a little. I thought it would still be fine to give me the area value and I can adjust the final arrangement
Is it strong enough to actually hammer on...or is this more just for fitting parts to it as you shape them?
Both, on this one I will only light tap on it and clamp the panels to it. If I wanted to make it stronger, I will totally fill it. I will use it mostly for alignment and for tack welding.
Great video 👍 Wray I love the lesson and info but you sounded like a cookery video
" get mixed so it's creamy", what's that smell😅
The other way you could have done it is with the steel frame but used the expanding polyurethane foam that sets hard.
Another tip on the fumes is just use a cheap electric fan to cross draft fresh air., Your like me the headaches aren't good and the fumes are poisonous.
I didn't get a headache. If I could do the bondo work outside I would. I have a great exhaust fan but it would have sucked out too much heat.
@@proshaper Yeah, forgot you're in winter and not the balmy 15~20DegC we get. Odd that you would get a headache outsid but not indoors. It would suggest that something else is at play if that's the case, too much fresh air perhaps.
Hi Wray! So you're going a different direction than the piece we started in January.
So why choose the mold? The first 3 piece approach was not accurate enough?
Thanks!
Hi Quentin, I needed to make the mold to accurately fit all of the internal pieces together. Nothing was changed just further development.
I would have held the plate over the tank & scraped the Bondo down on to it.
Wray are you making a 37 coupe express ? Rare cars as most rotten in sugar cane fields.
Yes, hope to build it on TH-cam all aluminum body and fenders. I modified the cab to fit me, and inch or two here and there. See my earlier video showing how we did the drawing with one of my students.
th-cam.com/users/proshaper
Could you use concrete for this? Maybe glassfiber filled. Would stand beating on it and welding heat too.
Try it and let us know.
I think you could of used PLASTER OR PARIS and lose FIBOR GLASS as the reinforcement and had a better Mold and saved a lot of time, in my worthless opinion. Just a thought. Thanks for the upload.
Tried plaster 25 years ago it didn't work. No strength. The object here is to get the shape not all of the surface details. The mold has to be super strong when completed.
27:56 👍👍
When will you start truck build?
I was hoping I'd have a bunch done already, but Covid has had an impact on my class size, so everything has fell behind schedule.
Is the mold the hammerform? What's the hammerform there? I don't have any knowledge about hammerform.
This hammer form was made to allow forming of 18 gauge steel into the tunnel of the tank which was super complex and the metal had to be formed so they tank bolted back up perfectly. The hammer form worked perfectly.
Hi, does you're wife let you frost a cake?;) good stuff.
Not sure why you wouldn't just make a fibreglass mould. Love your work but.
What I made is a steel rod reinforced fiberglass mold, it worked perfect.It allowed me to create a very complicated tunnel that fit the bike perfectly. It was a one off job.
Nice work but I'm not calling you to decorate my wife's birthday cake! I tried to make a hammer form for a dry-sump oil tank in the past making a positive from concrete (with no reinforcement). It spalled and cracked apart in short order...
Wow I’m early for once
So, what is the downside to just pulling a standard fiberglass mold?
Fiberglass tends to warp. With the reinforced bondo and the 1/4" wire the molded part is super strong and stable.
@@proshaper Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for the response. Great video as usual!
What about laying it up with fiberglass tooling cloth and bag it under vacuum? I work in an aerospace composite shop and we make tooling splashes all the time to duplicate a part like that. You couldn’t really do any hammering in it though, it would just be a reference.
I could be wrong but it looks like its fiber glass not body fillet
It's fiberglass reinforced body filler. Stronger than regular body filler.
IT´S A BOURGET BIKE GAS TANK..??
No clue.
Here's what you got to do without a 3D scanner and CNC milling machine)))
Compare the costs, simple wins.
Who does not need to make a buck ?
My wife.
The prickly parrot habitually boast because digital ultrasonically lighten without a mountainous cirrus. cute, feeble feigned millisecond
Word salad.
Excellent, thanks for sharing 😊