The Time My Model Railway Almost Burned Down
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- DISCLAIMER: Not all 'Chinese electronics' are dangerous, far from it! The vast majority of our electronic devices are manufactured in China and conform to the relevant safety regulations. The devices referred to in this video are the unbranded kind purchased from unknown overseas suppliers from the likes of Ebay or Wish, whose products may not conform to British electrical safety regulations.
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If you have any similar stories, make them known in the comments! I may make a video about them!
Maybe a video on basic precautions for 12v wiring? Even good quality gear fails.
I do have a similar story not to do with my railway but a tablet charger so i had bought a wall plug for my tablet and i was using for a few weeks without trouble until about 5 weeks when i was charging the tablet next to me while i was on my computer and i was oblivious to the smoke comming from the wall plug and then *BOOM* it blew then the whole power in the house went because of the braker i new exacly what it was so i chucked it out cause it was usless then so ya thats my story
Have you got a fire extinguisher? If not you might want to keep one by the door in the loft. 👍
You could also use an online car fuse that is 2-3a on 12v devices on your layout to be extra safe
Well I was charging my laptop and I smelt something I thought it was outside but it was my charger it smoked
You: *having fun & enjoying life*
Model trains: *ight I’ma blow up*
haha!! xD
"I know you know what a torch looks like" - *_Americans were left in the dark by not knowing what a torch looks like_*
haha!! xD
Shots have been fired
Well, that's the joke. To most Americans, a torch is called a flashlight.
Lol, mostly true.
@@JonatanGronoset I thought that was a British thing...
Thanks for sharing your experience. That’s scary on the solder iron was a red herring. Quality is not job one with Chinese manufacturing. I did have an experience with an almost 60 year LEGO battery box for a battery powered train. Apparently something was loose inside the box to cause a short and it got so hot it started smoking and the batteries started swelling up like they were going to explode
Thanks a lot mate - and blimey, that's definitely not good - did you manage to save it?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Read the books about China in the 50s even the USSR was disappointed in quality of hard goods.
Oh dear
Those batteries WOULD have exploded IF they had got hot enough.
Trains tar funnnnn!!!!!! Hi
Girls making story time videos:
“My psycho ex-best friend: story time"
Boys making story time videos:
haha yep - I know which kind I prefer!! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Story time: Model railway TRIED TO KILL ME (not clickbaite)
Psycho Ex Model Railway Blew Up The Church: Storytime
I CALLED HORNBY ON 3AM **GONE WRONG** **NOT CLICKBAIT**
Big Chungus I’m ur biggest fan
Wow, what an interesting story! Good advice- I’ll keep that in mind when I expand my model railway! Great video!
Thanks a lot mate - yeah absolutely, I wouldn't bother with any remote controls if you can help it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains Best idea would be to set up a 240V switch for use as a “master switch” for that transformer. Obviously there’s no wireless control but you’re also not wasting standby energy when it’s switched off. And it’s a lot safer :)
I had one of the Hornby skaledale lighting catch fire, touched the wire with my hand and saw smoke quickly pulled the plug to disconnect the bulb
Blimey! That's not good Harry - I'm surprised to hear that! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think the remote control must have used the existing moulds for an IR remote, but actually has an RF transmitter in it. Otherwise there's be no way for the controller itself to see the signal, as it doesn't have an IR window - and you had it hidden under scenery. The crystal (big shiny can in the middle) will be to tune the receiver, and has its frequency stamped on the top. At least one of the little chips on the board will be the actual receiver, and there should be a PCB trace attached to it to pick up the signal. Another one will be a microcontroller to decode the signal and produce the switching control signal to a power transistor. The third 8-pin chip will probably be the power transistor itself, with multiple pins ganged in parallel for better current handling.
There is nothing on that board that is even close to capable of switching 12 amps. But this shouldn't really matter in itself, as long as you operate it within its actual capabilities, which are likely to be in the range of 1 amp. If switched completely off or completely on, there should be no significant heat generated in the main power transistor, and the power consumption of the receiver and microcontroller should also be negligible.
The major design defect, I think, is in the wires. They are not only excessively thin, but they appear to be solid-core which means they can easily be damaged by flexing. This damage may manifest as a narrow point in the wire which would get warmer than the rest. When the wire gets hot enough, it will melt through the insulation (regardless of how thick it is), and may contact some other conductive component on the device, resulting in a short-circuit and runaway thermal failures.
A good PSU should have been able to detect the overload current, and shut down its own output without physically failing itself. The fact that yours did not, and thereby imposed a short circuit on the mains, renders it dangerous in its own right. You seem to be using power supplies that are too big for the loads they drive ad also have no short-circuit protection. Remember: the biggest danger of low-voltage power circuits is in the current domain.
I bet you're right - the controller was out of the line of sight during operation, so got to be RF! Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It even says it on the remote!
It's interesting that you mention the fire retardent carpet. I've been watching your videos thinking...my attic is exactly the same as Sams with the trussed roof configuration I wonder if I could put up some boards and make it into a train space. I had a look on various building sites but they all seem to just talk about the conversion where the trusses are replaced but you've pulled it off pretty well with them still in place which is what I would probably do. Did you do this room yourself?
Nice A4 class you were reviewing there, I'm getting one in the train pack that I am currently saving up for right now
haha thanks Cameron - hope you enjoy it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks for sharing Sam. I have two of those 5 amp 12v PSU's running all my lights and auxiliaries on my layout but for safety I installed a 4 amp inline fuse on the outputs to protect the PSU's as they are just switch mode power supplies and when they overheat the F.E.T's go short circuit on the 240v side causing a nice BANG! I'm glad you weren't injured in anyway, they are good stable power supplies... till they overheat.
Ohh very nice, thanks for sharing... yeah it was all fine in the end!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, Thanks for the advice and your time , keep safe, All the Best Brian 🤗
My pleasure Brian - thought this was worth telling!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A really good guide to burning down my layout, I think I will try it!
Great vid and very informative!
haha awesome - hope you get some good results! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wow! It's incredible how that little device lasted as long as it did! Lucky escape there Sam. Many thanks indeed for sharing.
I know - it's very strange that it lasted so long! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very nice video! So sorry to hear that happened. Good thing it didn’t get any worse! I have had a cheap N scale locomotive overheat quite badly, but thankfully nothing in my layout has almost burned down. And, great editing at 3:14!
Thanks a lot mate - yes it is a good thing! Glad to hear you engine didn't do any damage!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As when you buy a train controller, it says to pull out the electric plugs when finished for the day. Lucky escape. As Charlie Bishop said have a fire extinguisher in the layout room.
Yes that's true, though I hadn't finished for the day - I was up there getting ready to use the stuff! A fire extinguisher is definitely a good recommendation - I certainly have one!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I now avoid most electronic (Headsets etc) and Put together items (Like Tents etc) from China as they always fail. It is wiser to pay the higher price for brand items
Its often safer too, especially batteries!
Yes it's often wiser William, you're right!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Good choice! Chinese made stuff is ass.
@@Kasey1776 pretty much all the brand name items come from China as well. It depends on whether whoever commissioned them requested quality, or said "Can you do it cheaper?"
Thank you for the helpful insight even though I’m tempted to buy something similar I’ll make sure to find a genuine one.
Thanks Harry - yes I'd highly recommend against buying anything like that direct from China!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A very good tale of caution. Worthy of the time and effort of producing it.
I was in my workshop and could hear “hissing”. Smoke was wafting from one of the component drawers. Strange I thought, what could it be?
I opened the drawer and an AA 1.5v battery had burst open and the conductive film had begun to react with oxygen and spontaneously combust!
Had I not been in the workshop there would have been a fire without doubt. My batteries are now stored in a tin box!
That's terrifying stuff - batteries can be very nasty indeed - do you know what type of AA it was??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I'd recommend something non conductive but also fireproof, teflon is the first thing that comes to mind since some stuff I was researching mentioned it (teflon is a good coating for really reactive chemistry stuff like fluoroantimonic acid, which the only way I know of that it can be stored is in Teflon coated containers, it's also the least conductive of all known solids and doesn't burn (although it does melt that temperature is higher than tin), that said any non conductive fireproof material will work)
Ni-Cad's and other modern types of rechargeable batteries have a very high fire risk if anything goes wrong with them.
Thank you Sam! For your review you will save a lot of lives, and trains.
My pleasure mate - hope this does help! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
What a story! I’m glad everything was ok. Well, except the injured carpet 😂
haha thanks Kris - yeah it was all good eventually! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains quote from TATMR "I don't know what eventually means but it sounds very very long"
That was intense! I have a couple of models that run slow even when at full speed and they smoke!
I've seen that too Ryno - it indicates a motor fault! :/
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks and your welcome! Any tips how to fix if it’s possible?
Running slow and getting hot enough to smoke (means pulling way too many amps) means that your motor windings are fried. You're burning the insulation off of the motor windings, which will only cause it draw even more amps. Replace the motor.
Good advice, thanks Sam. Can't say that I've ever had anything smoke or catch fire in my layout except my Hornby H class! Smoke pored out of its chimney just before it stopped. It actually looked really good for a moment until I realised that my loco was dead! ( yes I still have a bee under my bonnet with my H class)
Thanks Jose - glad to hear that - and I think everyone's H class has done that, mine was exactly the same lol! ;D
Wow! I'm glad it didnt catch fire! I must remember that! Good informative video!
Me too mate - scary stuff!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Story time my mum and dad wreck my layout (cuz itd on my living room floor👌😉)*not clickable*
Uh oh Ben! That's not good!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Oof
@@SamsTrains that's right
Ouch
This reminds me of a time a similar thing happened to my layout. So it was about 2018 or so and I think I was downstairs in the train room. I was working on one side of the layout when I smelt an awful stench. It was around the logging platform so I went over. It turns out, the smell was coming from the station close by! There was dark grey smoke coming from the switch signal tower. I quickly cut the power, and the smoke shortly stopped. The stench was still there, so I quickly un-wired the tower and went upstairs. It was all fine after that, and I replaced the tower, but I never found out why that happened. It was in good condition, and it was from a well known model brand that produces great quality models. It's still a mystery today why that happened. Well any way, this was a good video! : )
Uh oh - that sounds disastrous mate, I hate when that happens!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Out of all my the things that could be my favourite part, my favourite part is the ‘power’ (current) when you were talking about amps
(Loved the video something to definitely keep in mind when I’m buying stuff)
haha I know - classic mistake!! Even worse, I know full well the difference between power and current... it just came out wrong xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam I have found out a way to add gloss finish to stuff! (Try this on a scrap loco body first to see the result)
Add small drops of oil to the loco body and use a cotton bud to spread it all over the model.
Leave for a few hours before rubbing the oil off. And now you have a gloss finish.
As I have said, iv only done this to a scrap body. I know that this may eventually kill the engine, and companies strongly advise you not to get oil on the bodies, but it looks brilliant anway!
Wow does that really work?! That's very interesting!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Many kinds of plastic are made from mineral oil (the oil which is extracted from underground), and prolonged contact between plastic and oil is highly likely (in the long term) to damage the plastic.
I love watching your videos and this was a good story about being careful. But there are a couple of issues here that are outside the responsibilities of the equipment itself. As a technician who's been working on electronic equipment for over 50 years, the first mistake I see you made was putting an electronic control device on top of and under, between, insulating materials. Power supplies and control devices have to have airflow around them to remove the heat that is being dissipated by that device. Even if the device has no output, modern electronic devices still have current flow through them so you will have a small amount of heat dissipation. Those materials you had it sandwiched between were a significant contributor to the near fire. Basically, the setup I saw and you described was a slow cooker of electronic equipment.
The issue where you were thinking that this device is not RF, that it's IR, please be aware that many RF remotes also have an IR output to it and it may or may not be used in that particular application. But your device obviously was an RF unit because IR is line of sight. You must be able to point that emitter on the remote at the device being controlled. There can be nothing between the IR transmitter and the IR controlled device. The IR signal can bounce off walls or other items but the device cannot be covered in any way. If it's covered, IR will not work. And to top it off, when you opened the device I did not see an infrared detector on the circuit board.
Your final analysis of the other device you had was logical, well thought-out, and explained well. But I believe the original device might still be working today if it had been in a more open-air situation where the heat could be taken away and not held around the device to cook the electronics.
A good rule of thumb is to always mount power controlling electronics in an area where the air around the device can move away from the device to take the heat with it. And FYI, that moving air can be just by convection, heat rises.
Many thanks for this Mike - yes the sandwiching wasn't a good idea - I certainly wouldn't do that again today!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Agreed! There was no visible I.R. device on that little controller circuit (plus it was working when it was covered up/visually hidden), so it must have been an R.F. device. And all electronic components produce heat when energised, which needs to be able to escape.
You’ve caused confusion and delay sam. XD lol
haha sorry about that! ;D
Sam'sTrains I’m sure the fat controller will forgives you
“I’m no expert in electronics” says the man who is far more expert in electronics than 99% of the people who watch his channel!!!
James was messing around with the Gunpowder again.
haha yeah!! ;D
I'll remember this- I don't want my beautiful hiawatha to get blown up! Oh wait, I don't have a hiawatha yet- but I'll remember this anyway.
haha certainly not - might as well plan for the future! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, i understand you! Once one of my favorites locos fell from my plastic and it's is broken! 😭
*it's broken
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - always a pain when that happens :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains thanks for answering Sam! Now I use that loco like a static model and it's very beautiful too😁
I'm glad you didn't have an out of control fire back then, Sam.
Thanks for telling us what a few of the alarm bells are.
It would have been an interesting experiment to see what 12 A would actually have done to that device (under controlled circumstances). Probably more of a heat your model home than a light up your model home device.
I'm very glad too - my pleasure mate! And absolutely - that would have been fun to try!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Lionel makes an O gauge "burning signalbox" accessory like that, though I've got to say that your layout is, er, more realistic in that sense.
Thanks for sharing this powerful lesson in buyer beware.
Cool idea with the brake van, though!
haha that sounds really interesting - I'll have to look at that! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
4:00 I never new that lifted up
haha yeah!! :D
Get big Clive to have a look at it!
haha great idea!! :D
Happy New Year,
Sam :)
Thanks for the story.
That is really scary, thank heavens you, most importantly, (and your home & layout too) are all right.
Thanks mate! Yes all fine very luckily - and lesson learned!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains Yes in deed, you are welcome, and always be careful Sam. : ). Thank you for the Train Videos .
I'd say that the little blob with the wires WAS for RF control. I couldn't see a window for an IR signal to hit it. Unless the remote control does both RF AND IR, though I doubt it. You're right about the lack of destructions being a warning sign. Even the cheapest Chinese thing I've bought has at least a very small leaflet.
Story time with Uncle Sam
haha! That sounds extra creepy xD
I mean I would love story time with a national personification (the United States personification is literally called uncle Sam) (p.s I know this is in reference to the channel name so....)
4:34 You *_almost_* hit the nail on the head, pointing out the faulty power supply, and at 5:01, almost got it right again! YES, it is *_100% the power supply's fault..._* but then you moved on... You _wasted_ the *_entire_* remainder of the video going off on an irrelevant tangent, focusing on _what the power supply destroyed,_ rather than the actual culprit. The LED controller was perfectly fine and safe... I've used them since 2013 with no trouble... It was fine and safe, *_until the power supply failed, and destroyed it!_* When cheap power supplies fail, they are _notorious_ for damaging the devices attached to them. You were _so close_ to the true culprit... and then you just moved on... Focus on the bad power supply, the LED controller was _not_ your point of failure... it just failed because the *_real_* point of failure (the Power supply) destroyed it.
It's like saying 'don't buy a Ford! The engine tore itself up and it doesn't run anymore'...
While completely brushing aside that it's tank had been filled with diesel instead of gasoline/petrol.
You missed the difference between the cause and the effect.
At both 4:34 and 5:01, you identify the Power Supply as having blown... and then get *_everything_* completely backwards and blame the LED controller!
At 8:09 I genuinely cringed... You say in one breath that you don't know electronics (there's nothing wrong with that), but then in the next, you advise against buying the low voltage LED controllers... Those are actually quite safe. It did not fail.. it was destroyed to failure. There is a major distinction, that being causation.
10:02 It IS an RF control... The remote does not require line of sight, and the LED on the top of the remote is not an IR LED. It is simply a red LED for indication of button presses. You might have noticed... there's no IR receiver on the receiving end.
10:21 I agree with you that the labeling is incorrect. It probably should read 1.2A, or possibly 12W instead. Chalk that up to a good ol' _"Engrish"_ translation. 12W (with a 12 volt input) comes out to 1A of current, and 1.2A would be 14.4W. Those are both far more reasonable ratings for the wire gauge used. It is agreed that you should always double check any Chinese to English translations, labels, etc.
I highly recommend looking at bigclivedotcom (it's spelled exactly like that) on TH-cam. his earlier videos show him tearing down numerous dangerously built Chinese power supplies, and explaining in detail why they are absolutely dangerous to use.
No electrician worth their salary could possibly '100%' diagnose a power supply without seeing it first! It was not a cheap chinese power supply - it was a quality regulated one that shipped with a PC monitor by a reputable brand. The only failure on the part of the power supply is that it appeared not have short circuit protection; I believed the failure only occurred as a result of it being overloaded.
Never make assumptions like that my friend!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It's true that I did assume you had a "cheap Chinese power supply", since the example you were showing onscreen had a label featuring Chinese text. The diagnosis of the problem is not an assumption, however... It's an analysis based on the symptoms you described, and prior knowledge and experience with both power supplies and those LED controllers. I will try to explain...
First, "reputable brand" means almost nothing anymore, at least when it comes to consumer electronics. You'd be shocked at what ships with electronics these days. Just as an example, Samsung is notorious for using _terrible_ capacitors in their power supplies. Over time, they are more prone to failure than a power supply that uses a more reputable brand of capacitor. I've also replaced capacitors in Philips branded TV power supplies, and caps in my own TiVo as well. Almost any consumer electronic device has different part number variations for different retailers. A TV or monitor that goes to Walmart might be a little cheaper than one that goes to a Best Buy, and both of those might be cheaper than what goes to a specialty audio/video shop... But those cheaper Walmart TVs are definitely _not_ gonna contain premium capacitors. it's the consequence of building to a price.
If what you used was a name brand, repurposed monitor power supply, that had seen some unknown number of years of service powering a monitor, then maybe sat for a bit, then got used to power your train stuff... Yeah, I wouldn't put it past it at all to have had some electrolytic capacitors that dried out, ruptured, or corroded, and caused a catastrophic failure. Capacitor failure is a _common_ failure mode in power supplies. Heck, I'm honestly still convinced the power supply started the chain of failures that caused the LED controller to smoke. I'll explain the fault sequence as best as I can.
A switching power supply works by rectifying the AC coming in from the wall into DC. in the US, that would be about 170 volts DC, and in other parts of the world that use 240 volt outlets, that can be rectified up to around 330 volts DC. A transistor, MOSFET, chip, whatever they happen to use on the particular circuit, will be rapidly turned on and off, based on another circuit that monitors the output voltage. If the output voltage is lower than, in this case, 12 volts, the pulse circuit will turn on the input switching transistor. This pulse of DC is fed into the primary of the transformer, and is inductively coupled to the secondary side. That feeds into a large capacitor. When the voltage reaches the desired regulated level, the transistor stops pulsing. This allows the voltage to start dropping. When it drops slightly below the desired output voltage, the transistor pulses again. This feedback regulates the output very close to the desired output. If the capacitor fails, It might not be able to hold a stable output anymore. If there is a fault in the pulse generating circuits, you could have the output drop out... And the second worst case scenario is when the transistor gets locked into it's pulsing state. If that happens, the voltage will just continue rising, right up to the maximum possible output voltage, which will be determined by the ratio of the primary to the secondary transformer windings.
If that happens, you might get 15 volts or 28 volts, or possibly even more voltage on the output. It all is entirely dependent on the way the supply is built. A supply built to drive more power is going to have a higher switching capacity, so if it was a 4 amp supply, it probably had plenty of headroom.
So let's say the LED driver was hit with a higher voltage than it can reasonably handle, and was burned out... How does the LED driver work? It has a type of transistor called a MOSFET connected, typically between the negative power input wire, and the negative LED output. Both positive power and LED connections are permanently connected together, and there is a small processor and radio receiver chip that decides when to turn the MOSFET on or off. If you review your video, the little spiral shaped trace on the back of the circuit board, that was almost certainly the radio antenna. The control chips are powered by a simple regulator which is fed across the power supply input. It monitors for radio frequencies that will match the Quartz crystal oscillator (or a multiple of it). To adjust brightness, it's actually turning the LEDs on and off _very_ rapidly. Faster than the eye can see. If the LED is off 50% of the time, and on 50% of the time, it's at half brightness, for example. The processor controls all that stuff by turning the MOSFET on and off. Real simple. It's listening for commands from the radio chip. that's basically, the three main chips on the board... MOSFET, microcontroller, and a radio chip. Absolutely NONE of the components in the LED driver are designed to handle high currents across the positive and negative leads. It's only designed to switch the negative so that it is connected or disconnected with the negative output to the LEDs. In order to get a high current draw from the LED controller, you need a catastrophic failure of the control chips, or carbonization of the the board. shorting the MOSFET _can not short_ the power supply... Shorting the MOSFET can only turn the LEDs on permanently at 100% brightness. That's inherent in the design of the device. If the MOSFET fails open (the opposite of a short circuit, then no power flows through, and the LEDs are permanently off. To get a short between the power supply inputs, you'd have to blow the processor or radio chip, and do it in such a catastrophic way that current can pass through.
If the power supply had failing capacitors, it could have created a power surge that blew the controller or radio chips, causing a near short. If it was enough to blow the chips completely, it might have left carbon on the board, that would conduct, and that could function as a short circuit.
Once that occurs, especially on an already compromised power supply, it's now only a matter of time before the power supply blows catastrophically, due to being overloaded by a fault condition it caused. I've seen just 2 measly bad caps create a cascade failure of 20 MOSFETs in a Philips TV before! Of course, we can presume the MOSFET in the LED controller did NOT fail short, because you yourself said the LEDs never came on. it could have possibly failed open though, but the only effect failing open could cause, is burning up the part, and laying more carbon to short across. I suspect the failure of the power supply blew the small chips, creating a burned, sooty path for a short to develop. As more and more current passed, it got hotter and hotter, burning the board more, and leaving more carbon trace for it to short across.
Back in the power supply, the supply keeps providing more and more current, and with the bad output regulation, it's not tripping over current protection (You stated you were unsure if the supply had such a feature. either it did not, or it failed). Eventually, the heat gets to be enough to melt or burn the insulation in the transformer. At that point, you short the primary winding of the transformer, and that's when your breaker is tripped.
I do stand by my determination that your power supply failed first, destroying the LED controller in the process. *_Every single symptom_* you describe is _screaming_ power supply failure to me. It's all the _classic_ symptoms, and the device that was being powered is simply _not wired_ in a way that can readily fail catastrophically, not without a bad power supply to create the damage in the first place!
@@SamsTrains (continued from before)
My rule of thumb for power supplies, is that if I'm repurposing an older supply, I'm first gonna look at it's age. Anything past 10 years old is definitely suspect, and anything that has sat in storage for over a year is likely also suspect, although my TiVo's Power supply failed after only 8 years (Hehe... I rebuilt it in 45 minutes, so I wouldn't miss a show! LOL). The question you have to ask yourself, is whether _you trust_ a power supply. Is what you are connecting to it something you can afford to lose? Is it properly enclosed in a flame retardant enclosure, as protection against a worst case scenario? Do you have protection? Did you remember to add a fuse of appropriate value?
If I'm okay with that, I will tend to decide if I want a new supply, or if I'm willing to trust a supply, or if I am fine with a rebuilt supply. Rebuilding power supplies isn't going to be very relevant to you, since you have stated electronics isn't exactly your thing. For me, as an electronics technician, I'm absolutely willing to trust my own work. A rebuilt supply is almost as good as new, and sometimes better, so long as I know only good components went into it. I'll go out of my way to spend $22 on new capacitors, as opposed to $8, cause I am willing to buy the highest rated variants of top brands. My TiVo now has capacitors of a grade that you'd expect to find in high end test equipment! XD
If repurposing a used consumer grade power supply, I'd highly recommend a visual inspection, whenever possible. Even from so called _"reputable"_ consumer brands like Samsung, LG, Acer, etc... That's still just cheap commodity stuff... It meets basic safety requirements, but is still built down to a minimal cost. If a power supply has screws, you can unplug it, wait for 10 minutes or so to safely allow any charge to bleed off, and pop the power supply open. Just visually examine the capacitors. They are the cylindrical components, typically shaped like metal "cans" with a plastic label wrapped around. Blue, grey, brown and orange are the most common colors I've seen used for the plastic labels I've seen, but other colors are possible. They almost always will have some kind of stripe on one side, and a circular portion of the metal can exposed at the top. Look at the tops. If the flat top of a capacitor looks bulged out, or even split, or if you see wet gunk or corrosion on the circuit board at the bottom of a capacitor, then that power supply is failing. That's an easy visual inspection that requires absolutely no technical skill to perform, and can save you trouble in the future. It won't catch all problems, but it can catch impending problems.
Personally, I make sure if I have a power supply need that requires something be plugged in, and be reliable for years, and I want to go with something new, I'll often go with a Delta or Meanwell power supply module. They aren't that much more expensive than any other supply, but they are some of the best switching supplies in the industry, and have actual certifications. A Meanwell with a single 12 volt output, that does 1.5A, or a Delta able to power 3.33A, in an enclosure similar to the power supply you showed, are only $17. That's for a brand new part! They come highly recommended.
Anyway, I hope that was at the very least, informative. I definitely still stand by my analysis of the faults and symptoms, and ultimately, my diagnosis. I hope explaining the diagnosis helps you understand why I'm so convinced the Power Supply went first, taking out the LED controller, making the load on the supply even worse in return, ultimately tripping your breaker.
I definitely enjoyed many of your other videos. I had to address this one though... I know the design of those LED controllers is actually really safely done, and I've got practical experience with using them for years. I just felt the need to point out what I knew.
I like the idea of you sharing and telling stories that have happened over the years with you model trains and layout! You should start a series of these, that is if you have anymore stories like this, and call it "Train Story Time with Sam, or, for short, T.S.T.S. or Double T.S. Whichever works for you, is fine! I response to your story sharing from others, I don't believe I have any stories to share about similar things, like what happened to you, blowing up, both train-wise or otherwise. I would happily share a "bang" of a story if I had one. Still, thanks for the story and advice.
(P.S. The second-to-last sentence is a pun. *ba dum tsss*)
Thanks a lot Jacob - I might do more some time! I don't have that many great ones, but I could have a think! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A thought provoking session Sam, clearly showing that you have to be very careful when buying any cheap electronic components that are made in China on line...Bob
Absolutely Bob - I don't do it any more, that's for sure!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam,s trains i have a story of my own i own a wii and like 2 years ago i was playing and bam a short circuit i quickly turned it off but its still works sorry if i hurt your feelings Sam,s trains
Ahh yeah that is a nuisance - what were you using that short circuited?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains it was not my fault it happend at once
Hi Sam how was your weekend
Very good thanks - how was yours?! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam having worked for a U.S.A. public utility I have seen hundreds of power surge and lightning hits on peoples equipment. A way to stop this is to install a good quality surge protector. These protectors are rated in Joules, the higher the number the better. Before using one of these make sure your electrical outlet is grounded ,if not you are wasting your time and money. Just think what investment you have on your train layout, one lightning hit and puff. In my house I have these on ANYTHING that is electronic. Some people say to just install a switch, but did that lightning just jump from the sky to the ground ?What is a 1/4 inch gap going to do! Keep up the good work Sam!
Thanks a lot for the tip David - I do use surge protectors on anything important! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I actually did have a story about fires on my model railroad. My old 0-3-0 model from the 2000’s had a bad motor and ended up smoking really bad, I have it set up like a monument in the middle of my layout
Ooh that's not good at all! I've seen a few do that too - scary stuff! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Anything like that, Sam, you should send to fellow TH-camr, Big Clive. He's a master electrical engineer, and loves taking shonky electrical gear apart, and knows exactly what is wrong with it. Even from the charred remains of them. He's a genius, and very often, laugh out loud funny.
Gulp. I have this exact same device lighting my layout. Not had any problems with it, but will have to check now. Thanks for the cautionary tale!
No worries mate - I'm sure it will be fine, but I personally would never trust them!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. I'm not into trains, but I like watching your vids.
I have a 12V system that i use for various electronics shuch as my speakers, all my USB devices that need charging and my electronics projects. I have a laptop powersupply that gives about 19V and this goes into a home made thermal fuse bank and then into individual 'cheep chineese' voltage regulators. So, the thermal fuses will cut the power to anything that draws more current that the thermal fuse is rated for. But unlike a normal fuse, a thermal fuse will reset once the power has been turned off and it cools down. So if a regulator fails it will trip the fuse.
The regulators are the buck / boost type and these have short circuit protection on them. If the output exceeds the rating of the regulator (say 3Amps for the small ones) then the regulator can't maintain the voltage and the voltage plumits to almost nothing. This means that while its still providing 3Amps there is hardly any voltage which means hardly any power thus, very little heat produced.
I also regularly test my system by deliberatly shorting out each segment, this way I can use cheap chineese electronics knowing full well things are not going to explode or catch fire. I used to use the classic voltage regulators such as the LM317 or L7805 and these would regularly release magic smoke / explode if shorted not to mention require large heatsinks to disapate the heat they produce during normal operation.
If you need 3V (or any voltage) for LED's / motors then use buck regulators, much safer than anything else.
Thanks very much for sharing - that sounds like a pretty cool setup, like the sound of that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have a N scale railway and it Burned. My kato engine had Enough of running. Our power to the railroad went out. And smoke started coming out of the engine. I herd a loud crack and it was shooting out sparks. I still have the engine. It’s a Kato GG1. So let’s have a moment of silence for the close fire.
Wow, what a frightening story Sam! It would be devasting to see your whole model railway burn down and be destroyed. And all of your hard work would be wasted.
Thanks mate - it certainly would have been - very lucky! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Me:eating breakfast watching Sam’s Trains
My ipad:being a mirror
Me:Turns around seeing smoke
Me:thinks nothing is happening
Me:getting concerned
My pool heater:FAILS AND CATCHES THE HOUSE ON FIRE
Me:grandma I think the house is on fire
The fire:gets to the PAPER INSULATION
Me:calls the FD aka 911
Me:gets outside
My family:gets to the house
My friends:rides there bikes over
Me:goes back to my moms
My grandma:goes to a hotel
Now she lives in an aparment and my pool heater was a heyward which is a great quality company
Oh god!! This sounds pretty dramatic - is that true?!?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This deserves a bigclivedotcom analysis, send it off if you still have it?
I wish I'd thought sooner - I chucked them sadly :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I run antique 3 rail O gauge trains. All of the electrical items on my layout (except for battery powered items) are plugged into a power strip with its own built in breaker. The power strip gets turned off and/or unplugged whenever I'm done running the trains. Nothing can overheat or short out when nothing is plugged in.
That sounds very smart - definitely not a bad idea to have one of those!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Appears to be an RF receiver. RF Crystal oscillator in the metal can. The receiver antenna is that small cork-screw pattern in the PC trace. SMD's (Black IC's) are the RF pulse processing, and On/OFF switching components.
That’s also why it’s a good idea to use something like a small breaker or fuse with electronics like that on the power supply outputs so if it draws more then four amps for example it will first blow the fuse before anything can burn! Also with that controller unit one chip would be a voltage regulator for the two other controller chips and possibly the output so it’s possible that chip somehow was overvolted and then shorted out or it simply died and caused a short as often voltage regulators short out when they fail! :)
Yes that's very true - after this, I'd recommend that! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
thank you for sharing this story, I'll be more cautious the next time I shop for electronics
My pleasure Marie - definitely worth being cautious!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I do believe that I have two of those. I will be checking them out before using them. Thank You for the heads up.
Do keep an eye on them - I'm sure they'll be fine, but be aware!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thank you Sam for the warning, that is important, its a good job it diddnt become a actual fire! Interesting vidoe Sam 👍
Thanks George - yes a very good job!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
When I saw the thumbnail with the Golden Eagle surrounded by fire my heart rate started to increase
Interesting Sam. Just a note re the LED dimmer/controller and the remote. Strange that the remote has an IR LED on the end, but it has to be also an RF remote as the dimmer/controller does not have an IR receiver, and that quartz crystal you pointed out is the frequency lock for the receiver on the board (one of those IC's is the controller chip, and the other is the receiver chip).
Chinese electronics - yes, the good is good but the bad can be very bad ......
Thanks again for another interesting video Sam.
David.
The locos: *Not setting them themselves on fire*
The layout: "Fine, I'll do it myself"
haha I know right - you can't win! xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I use standard plug fuses down to 0.5 amp if suggested by manufacturer of electronic devices. e.g. ROCO Z21 has one device at 0.5 amp and one at 2 amp for the transmitter and receiver/controller.
I...I'm sorry to hear about that, electronics have their ups and downs.
Cheap or expensive at least you took caution towards it, you tested it out,
and you even took it apart to check it over so nothing like this would happen.
But as much we think it's all right, things like these we all know happen at random.
But to sum it up, nice work, nice story, and keep up the good work sam! :)
They certainly do - lesson learned for sure!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains anytime my friend
That's really scary, thanks for the warning Sam.
No problem Patrick! :D
1) Always treat electricity with respect; just because it’s not high voltage (mains), doesn’t mean it’s not high risk! 2) Never put electrical devices or cords on/near anything flammable! 3) DCC power supplies put out about 12-14 VAC (as a modulated square wave), but they can put out 5+ amps of current, depending on the model. The command station SHOULD have a built-in circuit breaker that’ll cut power to the track if a short is detected, and it’ll beep, or flash an LED on the front panel (or maybe both.) Check it regularly by briefly touching a coin across the rails, but be prepared to yank the power cord out just in case; that kind of current can WELD the train wheels to the track! 4) Just because a device isn’t a dead short, doesn’t mean the risk is less; the wiring could overheat, or the battery/PSU could, instead! Stay safe! 😍
Hey Sam, just a word of precaution for yourself and anyone that it may concern. Any electronics that get hot of even give out heat probably shouldn't be
enclosed like yours were, between a carpet and cardboard , without airflow of some kind the heat has no way to dissipate. Not that it was the cause of your fire but its probably advisable to try and keep electronics open. Love the videos keep up the good work
Yes that's very true Roger - ordinarily I'd never do that - but having tested it initially, it stayed cool under my load - which was only a little over 500mA! But you're right - it shouldn't be done!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
One Xmas, I wrapped a small string of LED round trees ( 6-8 inches long) - cheap and cheerful. The strings are battery powered (2 x 1.5v) with a switch. Like you, I smelled burning - the battery holder was so hot, the plastic had warped. Surprisingly, the switch was OFF. This was the only faulty one I had in years of using them at Xmas but take a couple of minutes extracting the batteries at the end of the Xmas running session. Alan.
Blimey - definitely wouldn't expect a failure on battery powered lights - had the batteries shorted or something then?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
One thing I learned was to never leave a train running when you're not there - even just for five minutes. Went to make a drink while a multiple unit was going round (several years ago), came back to find the room stank of burning plastic - the train had got stuck on a set of points and burnt itself to death. Didn't catch fire but all the electronics inside were black, the motor was dead and the bodyshell had turned to liquid and was melted out of shape. The room stunk for days. RIP class 150...
That's sound advice - I try not to do that either, though I sometimes do I admit! I use my rolling road if I'm going away for more than a minute or two! Sorry to hear about your 150 - that's pretty bad :/
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
So it could have been the Wall Of Flame..... . . . . Ok seriously though, it's good to see you sharing this story so others can take steps. :-)
One of the safety things I have is few fire extinguishers. You can't always stop something going bang, but taking steps to prepare for it can stop the bang from spreading!
Stay safe people!! :-)
haha it could indeed mate!! Thanks a lot - and very true, I've since purchased one!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Good to hear that you saw the problem
Yes! I'm glad I never tried to use one anywhere it'd be powered 24/7!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had a cheap no name electric cable reel extension I was using it to power a de-humidifier to dry out a room that had been re-plastered. I heard a loud POP noise and watched as a small volcano of sparks came out of the reel of cable. The circuit breaker tripped and I threw the cable reel into the skip, that was a £20 lesson learnt.
Ooh dear - that's the classic isn't it!? I think many of us have done that!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well said Sam, you have gotta be so careful with electrical stuff. The radio station I work at had a major fire back in August. (news report here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-49283009 ) Last week we got the fire brigade incident report back. It started in a distribution board, the board concerned had been in use for 18 months before it failed and it was a installed by a contractor who had basically ripped the station off and used sub standard componants. (A court case is now underway).
We got the station back on air within three days from a temp studio using our outside broadcast rig, but even now we are still in a temp studio while the main studio is still being rebuilt. It took 5 weeks just to clean up the wreckage and decontaminate the building, before we could even think about rebuilding and it will be January before we are back to normal.
We got lucky, there were three people in studio when the fire started. It was our Silver Sounds show, made for and by folks over the age of 60. Tony the presenter said it was only about 3-4 minutes between smelling burning and the room filling with smoke and flames bursting through the control consol. It could have been a disaster. The studios are in a community centre and at the time there was a creshe full of young children, a cafe full of people, an OAP keep fit class in the main hall and several other community organisations with offices full of people in the building. About 80 people in total, many of the kids or elderly folk.
So folks, don't cut corners with the electrics.
Jon
Thanks a lot Rich, blimey that sounds quite serious - glad to hear you were able to recover so quickly from it! Very good news that someone was there to act so quickly!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
(2) Tramway Layout Stage 2 - TH-cam Under the card bodies are chassis from Underground Ernie bought very cheaply as two car units. £9.99 from Yorkshire Trading. Bought a few at the time, and i was not the only one as they did not last long.
Gotta invest in some fire trucks
haha yeah! xD
In the first couple of moths of 2018 I purchased an electronic speed controller (esc) from a website called Banggood selling lots of cheap Chinese electronics. It's a shop I will never get anything from again and would not recommend any of their products to anyone. Anyway, once this esc arrived I almost immediately got to work soldering everything together for my new little ant weight robot. Once everything was together however, I turned it on and immediately it started smoking until everything just stopped, leaving one of the chips with a hole through it. I was interested to know what had gone wrong and whether it was still recoverable (which of cause it wasn't), so a couple of weeks later I came back to it. During this time a wire had come off due to immensely small pads for soldering your wires onto so I decided to solder it back in. It's worth pointing out at this point that there was no power connected to the esc, nor any other components so it was just it and some wires. I began to solder the wire back on however, before long the second of the three chips caught fire, just from me soldering it! The fire thankfully didn't last more than a few seconds, so it didn't cause any damage to anything bar itself and a mark on the soldering mat, but it was obvious that it wasn't going to work any more. After that, I gave up on this component (which I should have done long before hand) and purchased a much better, high quality esc which up until this point still works and is showing no signs of age. For one reason or another I still have this no demised esc, but I definitely won't be giving it a purpose any time soon.
haha blimey Dom - that sounds like awful junk, sorry to hear about your bad experience :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
An excellent, much-needed and much-appreciated cautionary tale.
bigclive posted a vid about a Chinese rechargable torch/flashlight with aux usb charging ports. He found that while recharging, it supplied MAINS POWER TO THE METAL BODY.
Thanks very much mate - yes I've seen lots of Clive's videos like that - it pays to be careful!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Lessons learned: Put fuses with a suitable amperage in the lines...
And buy trustworthy stuff only.
And install fire detectors anyway and make sure you can leave the house if the power is out...
Maybe have the phone with you - it might have a flashlight app on it - maybe even as a button in the quick menu which you can pull down from the top on Android.
A working fire extinguisher might also be an idea.
And if something burns, pull the plug of course or switch off the power where possible. Maybe that's enough to stop it when something is just getting hot as it would burn in any second... - as it was in this case!
Many thanks to give us a heads up on this topic!
I just added some quick thoughts around that - but it's a year later... well...
Great video Sam thank god it didn't burn down
haha I know!! :O
It does appear to be RF - there is no receiving I/R sensor. The remote case is probably common to different products. The silver thing in the receiver is a quartz crystal, perhaps used to clock the chips, or perhaps part of the RF receiving circuitry.
This is great OE! Thanks!
I wonder if being under the scenery put sufficient pressure on one or more of the buttons on the controller? Not ideal placing a controller of any sort directly under an object. Even a light newspaper or magazine can activitate a device. Glad you were in the room and at home to deal with it safely.
There were no buttons on the controller - it was solely remote controlled!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wow that is scary 😮😮😮😮and please can you review the Hornby GWR passenger freight train set
It was!! :O
I have chosen to roll my own LED amps for this reason. Off-the-shelf amps don't seem to offer any protection incoming or out. Rather scary when the ampacity of the wires used can be measured in hundreds of milliamperes.
I have a bachmann James at home, I rarely use it but back then, when ever I held it or instantly went full throttle, I could see Sparks emitting from the wheels nothing caught on fire thankfully.
Ooh blimey! Yeah I've had a few locos that are like that - generally it is safe for loco wheels to spark - it's quite normal, unless the sparks are huge or something xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Good video Sam. Your fire story was interesting, in a childish way! The video is very serious though and highlights the importance of not buying cheap electronics, of which I have never bought and I never will.
haha thanks Jacob - it's okay, you're allowed to have enjoyed it, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great advice 😀👍
Thanks John! :D
I was thinking along those lines, but I'm no good at wiring like you are. So it's easier if I use two controllers. Your set-up is better than mine, I admit. It's just that buying a second train set was the easier way to do it, in my opinion. So I've moved my CD Tower and new bookcase across, so as to use both plug sockets. And if you want to create a Winter Wonderland, what you need is some proper Model Railway Snow if you can find some anywhere. I know I'm thinking ahead to December, but I have a Winter Wonderland surprise up my sleeves complete with a chocolate goods train. Sorry if it made you feel peckish.
That sounds smart Kelly, and looking forward to the winder wonderland! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A couple of things. The remote is RF (infrared requires line of sight). The lack of instructions is not necessarily a warning sign, the majority of components do not come with instructions (regardless of source) think about buying components from Maplins etc. back in the day. The peak current 12amps is probably a misprint and should be 1.2amps (which is a warning sign). I would guess the failure of this was a least in part due to it having no air-flow to keep it cool, this may be a requirement of this component as it does not appear to have any on-board heat dissipation (which is the same reason it is a fire risk to charge phones under pillows). It is likely from what you described that the power supply failing is what tripped the MCB, I would guess this component overheated to the point it went closed circuit which then fried the power supply as it did not have overload protection. If your scenery draws less than 2amps and you have a 4amp power supply I would suggest installing a suitable quick-blow fuse.
Yeah you're absolutely right - and 1.2A sounds far more realistic given the gauge of the wire and lack of any cooling!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I wonder if your implementation of it - buried between the diorama and the carpet where it probably couldn't breathe - was a factor. I also wonder if it could be made safe with an external heat sink.
As others have pointed out, the lack of a sensor and breaker on the power supply were also part of the equation. If the power supply had been able to tell it was getting too hot, that might have stopped things from escalating as they did.
On one of the Facebook groups that I go on for Lionel trains one guy tried some different oil in the smoke unit on his Lionel engine and it burned his house down. Since the oil wasn’t made for what he was using it for his insurance company denied the claim.
Blimey really?! That sounds really bad!! :O
Hey Sam great vid! It really happened to my old one. I lost about £100-£200.
Blimey, what happened mate?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I left my trains running for a night from a dare and sparks set the whole table alight!!
@@Glitcheonwriter Dares can be dangerous - always consider before your actions.
@@ILikeTransport yep. Found that out
No, it’s because those houses had a fire of the invisible people living there. One of the house kitchens was actually burning. There is totally an article 👍
Found this while searching why my trains (Bachmann Thomas & Friends HO Scale Thomas, Percy & James) were making slightly subtle burning smells.
Uh oh - not good!! :O
Buy a fire extinguisher and keep it near your layout!
Sound advice - I do have one!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is a great Halloween story
haha I guess so! xD
Wow that was a good story I’m really looking forward to more of your videos catch ya later
Thanks a lot mate, much appreciated!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I would love to see that break van idea come to fruition...
I would too! It would need a much stronger electromagnet though - I'll need a different mechanism for it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)