It just goes to show you that History means just that " His-story" those who talk about history to you, those who listening are at the mercy of hearing "Their version " of a story. When you hear Zera's version of the battle of light and darkness it veered more towards a Valmar narrative. In Elmo's version, which has no biases, you can see every side of the actual story. And therefore a legit truth, you just chose to believe what you want out of it..
So in the end, Granas was really the evil one, even though that may not have been his intent. Valmar was, yes, evil, but he also freed people from a world with no ambition or dreams. And even though Granas was good, he trapped people in that world. That just goes to show that even in the midst of evil, there's always some good, and vice versa.
Yes. Her voice really matches her role. She is an implanted automata inside "The Birthplace of the Gods" so you won't really find her in other scenes or places.
Ahhhh, this game again. Played it when i was 12 years old. Such a great game! And i got scared at the part when Zera told the true story about Granus and Valmar, i was like whooooa!
It was always difficult to understand this game's lore when I was a kid. This video clears up a couple questions, and I'm going threw an NG+ playthrough as we speak. This game is my personal favorite RPG of all time, but the biggst flaw is lore. The lore of the actual Battle is mostly revealed at the end or near the end of the game, so even doing a NG+, I was confused with the lore until I saw this.
I think the point of this is this. Granas and Valmar weren't so different they both represented death of a kind for the future of man. Granas is co-operation and Valmar is competition. However co-operation is not co-operation when it is compelled and competition is not constructive when it becomes destructive. Anything good can become evil when you make it so important so ideal like a god. Valmar was made to be a antithesis to Granas however his ambitions did not stop there as elaborated by the game. In the end Valmar determined no one was worthy of standing upon his pyramid.
Huh. I always thought Granas was just the outcome of civilization's attempt to reach utopia, through dogma and control of belief and thought, while Valmar was the flipside of that, being the unbridled creativity, freedom, and violence of raw desire... both given form through the civilization's hyper-advanced tech being used for differing purposes. Now it's more like Granas was their equivalent of The Traveller from Destiny, granting power, knowledge and technological advancement, with the world religion spawning out of that...and Valmar forces being a rebellion and resistance movement to that domination.
Light is still a good thing, without light we can not live. But without darkness we will die too, because we have to sleep and regenerate. Granas was only light, Valmar only darkness, but the human need both things together and after the Battle between good and evil they get it.
It reminds me of King Charles and Lelouch from the anime code geass. How charles wanted to create a world with no death or war but at the same time no one would want anything or have ambition. Lelouch said it would be stagnate, and hardly could be called living. And Lelouch, while he did many evil deeds. meant only the best for the world so that people could live as humans with choice and drive to achieve goals.
Anyone else thinking of Malpercio from Baten Kaitos + Origins? I'd love a prequel to Grandia 2 set in the distant past. Must include an earlier version of Millenia.
My interpretation of the story goes like this: A long time ago, a spaceship came to earth. It brought with it incredibly advanced technology, including the ability to unleash the powers of the soul, both good and evil. On the spaceship was an alien who called himself Granas. I don't know who or what he was. Maybe some kind of artificially created being - that would fit with Elmo talking about Granas was destroyed and not killed. I don't know why the spaceship landed on earth. But when it landed on earth, Granas met the people of that time who were still "blind", almost like animals. Granas used his spaceship's technology to help humans. He studied for a long time in the Birthplace of Gods, which was nothing more than a part of his spaceship. Then he taught the people who were still very backward a lot of his knowledge, turning them into godlike beings, so to speak. At first he just wanted to help them, but over time the power went to his head. And people also lost their minds at the limitless power they got from Granas, because they could make their thoughts matter and nothing was impossible anymore. This made the world a fairytale place, but also ensured that people no longer had any desires or goals, because everything could be created instantly. As a result, the world, beautiful as it was, became a desolate place that would not allow for any more growth. The people lived in a golden cage. At that time, some people were looking for a way to live without granas. When Granas heard this, he had the renegades hunted down and called them "The People of Darkness" and the Dark Ones called the followers of Granas Jailer, for they hunted them down wherever they could - Granas ordered them to do so. Because Granas knew that his power, the creative power of light, is canceled out by darkness. And that's when some humans discovered the Birthplace of Gods and used it to create armor that enabled a human to harness the power of darkness and fight Granas. Afraid of being caught, they built the armor in many pieces, scattered across the country. Each piece of armor possessed a machine to bind it to a human's soul and incorporate the human's strengths into the armor. Only in the center of their power, the moon, could all the parts be put together. Then came the day when all the armor pieces were ready. A chosen one put on the armor and the people of darkness attacked the followers of Granas. A great war was the result, at the end of which Granas was able to kill Valmar. He shattered his armor and killed the human inside. At the same time, however, Granas was also fatally hit and fell to earth with the armor parts from Valmar, where he created the Grana Cliffs. Granas like Valmar were basically dead, but while Granas was completely destroyed, Valmar's armor remained intact and returned to the places where it was made. Valmar's supporters had been severely decimated. Due to Grana's death, the followers of Granas were no longer able to exercise their original power, they had become ordinary mortals and therefore could not destroy the armor parts of Valmar. So they built temples over them to prevent anyone from using the armor pieces and spread the rumor that Granas sealed Valmar in these places. Finally, they closed the battle robot factory and the Birthplace of Gods. Then Ryudo came to the Borthplace of Gods and gained some of the power that Granas once had and his mind created the Granasaber. When Valmar resurrected, he lacked horns, was imperfect, and also had a weak, completely insane mind, Zerra's. As a result, he was only a shadow of the former god and Ryudo and his companions were able to defeat him and this time completely destroy him. The power of a god flowed through Ryudo. He flew across the sky, bathed in the light of hope, like Granas once did. And through him the Grana Cliffs were healed and flooded with water. However, Ryudo renounced the power of a god by symbolically burying the Granasaber.
Granas and Valmar according to Elmo used the Birth Place of the Gods to develop their godly powers. So it seems their experiments dealt with, more than science like magic. Valmar can absorb souls, for example. I wouldn't be surprised that their original experiment was immortality. But, failed and Granas turned into a being or light and creation aka the God of Light. Granas wanted to be worshipped according to Elmo. He gave the powers of creation to humans. But, they started lacking ambitions, dreams, passions. He did though appear to love his worshippers, and didn't wish death or destruction on them. Valmar and likely some of the People of Darkness, after viewing what Granas was doing thought what he was doing was dangerous. So Valmar or whatever human used the life-energy from the humans to give him powers to stop and resist Granas's. But, it twisted him with all the life he took from how many people he used in his experiments. I bet he lost his individual persona and sanity and always thought he was a god. And thus turned into the God of Darkness. During, the Battle of Good and Evil, he was able to kill Granas despite Granas's godly powers, but was also greatly damaged too. And his last followers of the People of Darkness, used their devices so that new people could use be infused with parts of Valmar to remake him. This is my theory of the game's mythology and history.
What if they were trying to do what Krona from DC did, only the aftermath was absolutely nothing in comparison. They might have been wondering about their origins, since they didn't create the world. And what they became was just an inkling of what really came before, or maybe a twisted incarnation thereof.
Zera se dio cuenta de eso e intentó rehacer a valmar usando su influencia y conexiones, manipulando a Melfice para reclutar a mas personas que buscasen el poder de valmar o al menos la ambicion suficientes para manipularlos y asi juntar rápidamente las demas piezas de valmar.
im trying to play this game again, and nothing. the videos dosn't work, only the sound on the intro, but ingame when a video comes in, the game froze. i tryed to desinstall every codec, only FFDshow... but nothing =( what a crap, i want to play it again!
As someone who watched Babylon 5, I could not help myself finding similarities between the Vorlon/Shadows and Granas/Valmar. Two overbearing parents with different parenting methods that cannot let the young go and make their own way.
If you're playing on PC, try copying the videos/video folder into the game directory in your computer, along with the other files not included in the installation. If that doesn't work, maybe it's actually the PC which can't run the game properly, sorry.
@AlexanderLeon87 Elmo's new narration: When the world was still young, young like Elmo! hah! Biiiiiig light came. Granas! Was bright light on everything, even Elmo! Marvels was given to men, power to create things! Elmo made cookies, yum! Prayer became form. Elmo got cookies! Maaaaany wonders in those days. All the cookies people wanted, was given to them! But soon, people got tired of cookies. Valmar came. He was big and scary, Elmo hid! aaand running out of room...
agree i also tought it was Valmasr's fault but then agina Good and evil they cant live whit them nor whitout this battle will always go on ^^ i just love this game i think i will play it agian
That may not necessarily be true as a japanese version of this cutscene gives us more detailed description of this situation and it paints Granas as nothing more then being without will who's only goal was giving power to it worshipers in return for prayer and expanding it influence it changed its worshipers to the point where these two things(prayer and expansion ) become sole purpose of their lives and they lost their will and humanity .....Valmar on the other hand initially had no will of it own as it was akin to a weapon with power to cuse energy of the living beings to go berserk creating monsters in the process .the personality it eventually was nothing more combination of the negative aspects taken from all those who used it power as they become part of its core and as they were mainly people who feared and hated Granas the first Valamar created from them was hellbent on killing it .
@hernobleness Well, I don't wanna call Granas evil. Granas was good, but he was too good, and this too much goodness has caused something 'bad' to the people.
I think Granas became obsessed with making the ideal world, the ideal order and forgot about making the people genuinely happy and contented. Compelled co-operation is not co-operation. It is slavery.
So: 1- The world was a baby. There existed people already? 2- Granas came from space. 3- People wanted free will, so started worshipping Valmar. But where did Valmar come from? From people's desire of freedom? From space too? Or it already existed in Earth?
The world existed and there were already people living in it. Both Granas and Valmar were also humans, but they were superscientists of some sort and were able to evolve/transform themselves into God-like beings. Granas 'ascended' first and brought light and the gift of creation to the world. The people of the world became happy, but some of them saw danger in Granas' extreme generosity. Those people then joined Valmar, and Valmar transformed himself into the Devil of Darkness and waged war against Granas and his followers.
Caerulean Valmar has been called more often the God of Darkness. Only zealous followers of the Church of Granas thought of him as truly a Devil and not just the opposite and evil god to Granas whom was viewed as good. Likely Granas retained his sanity after his ascension into his power, but still saw himself as a god and protected and gave gifts to his people. Valmar likely lost his individual persona and a new one developed from the fusion of the many people and energy he took from people to resist Granas. And likely always thought he was a god.
It almost seems like The Church Of Granas fell into Valmar's hands since they knew the truth of the seals and did what they could so he was released. They both could have lost who they were and what they did could have caused themselves to be imbued with the positive or negative traits of humanity or universe, with nothing to maintain the balance. Hence the ceaseless worship of Granas, and he probably was unable to consider the ramifications of granting people such an awesome power. In the end it was all a mistake.
@@jayesper4390 It's more like the church of granas was left with the ruins of the war of good and evil. They then created this narrative that if humanity warded off the inherent evil within themselves then one day Granas would reawaken from a long slumber and save humanity from themselves. (Theres a passage in the library explaining what the church of granas believes.) Eventually the church of Granas lost it's idealism and decayed into apathy. Then you get Zera who is a devout follower of the church believing Granas will return to save everyone. Then he rises to pope and is told the church's greatest secret. That Granas is dead. Zera has been taught humanity is doomed unless Granas returns and so now he's faced with a doomed world. People are inherently evil so he can't rely on other people to fix this problem. So HE must fix this problem. He falls into self aggrandisement and convinces himself that he can control Valmar and make a new Granas with Valmar to save humanity.
I love the mythology of this game!
It just goes to show you that History means just that " His-story" those who talk about history to you, those who listening are at the mercy of hearing "Their version " of a story. When you hear Zera's version of the battle of light and darkness it veered more towards a Valmar narrative. In Elmo's version, which has no biases, you can see every side of the actual story. And therefore a legit truth, you just chose to believe what you want out of it..
So in the end, Granas was really the evil one, even though that may not have been his intent. Valmar was, yes, evil, but he also freed people from a world with no ambition or dreams. And even though Granas was good, he trapped people in that world. That just goes to show that even in the midst of evil, there's always some good, and vice versa.
Would love a prequel to Grandia 2 set in the distant past.
Yes. Her voice really matches her role. She is an implanted automata inside "The Birthplace of the Gods" so you won't really find her in other scenes or places.
Ahhhh, this game again. Played it when i was 12 years old. Such a great game!
And i got scared at the part when Zera told the true story about Granus and Valmar, i was like whooooa!
It was always difficult to understand this game's lore when I was a kid.
This video clears up a couple questions, and I'm going threw an NG+ playthrough as we speak.
This game is my personal favorite RPG of all time, but the biggst flaw is lore. The lore of the actual Battle is mostly revealed at the end or near the end of the game, so even doing a NG+, I was confused with the lore until I saw this.
I think the point of this is this. Granas and Valmar weren't so different they both represented death of a kind for the future of man. Granas is co-operation and Valmar is competition. However co-operation is not co-operation when it is compelled and competition is not constructive when it becomes destructive. Anything good can become evil when you make it so important so ideal like a god. Valmar was made to be a antithesis to Granas however his ambitions did not stop there as elaborated by the game. In the end Valmar determined no one was worthy of standing upon his pyramid.
Huh. I always thought Granas was just the outcome of civilization's attempt to reach utopia, through dogma and control of belief and thought, while Valmar was the flipside of that, being the unbridled creativity, freedom, and violence of raw desire... both given form through the civilization's hyper-advanced tech being used for differing purposes.
Now it's more like Granas was their equivalent of The Traveller from Destiny, granting power, knowledge and technological advancement, with the world religion spawning out of that...and Valmar forces being a rebellion and resistance movement to that domination.
Light is still a good thing, without light we can not live. But without darkness we will die too, because we have to sleep and regenerate. Granas was only light, Valmar only darkness, but the human need both things together and after the Battle between good and evil they get it.
I played the games about 5 times.. I love it
It reminds me of King Charles and Lelouch from the anime code geass.
How charles wanted to create a world with no death or war but at the same time no one would want anything or have ambition. Lelouch said it would be stagnate, and hardly could be called living.
And Lelouch, while he did many evil deeds. meant only the best for the world so that people could live as humans with choice and drive to achieve goals.
kanokun18 Bleach ended up going that same route... (But the Anti-Spiral from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was like the other side of that coin...)
Anyone else thinking of Malpercio from Baten Kaitos + Origins? I'd love a prequel to Grandia 2 set in the distant past. Must include an earlier version of Millenia.
My interpretation of the story goes like this:
A long time ago, a spaceship came to earth. It brought with it incredibly advanced technology, including the ability to unleash the powers of the soul, both good and evil. On the spaceship was an alien who called himself Granas. I don't know who or what he was. Maybe some kind of artificially created being - that would fit with Elmo talking about Granas was destroyed and not killed. I don't know why the spaceship landed on earth. But when it landed on earth, Granas met the people of that time who were still "blind", almost like animals. Granas used his spaceship's technology to help humans. He studied for a long time in the Birthplace of Gods, which was nothing more than a part of his spaceship.
Then he taught the people who were still very backward a lot of his knowledge, turning them into godlike beings, so to speak. At first he just wanted to help them, but over time the power went to his head. And people also lost their minds at the limitless power they got from Granas, because they could make their thoughts matter and nothing was impossible anymore.
This made the world a fairytale place, but also ensured that people no longer had any desires or goals, because everything could be created instantly. As a result, the world, beautiful as it was, became a desolate place that would not allow for any more growth. The people lived in a golden cage.
At that time, some people were looking for a way to live without granas. When Granas heard this, he had the renegades hunted down and called them "The People of Darkness" and the Dark Ones called the followers of Granas Jailer, for they hunted them down wherever they could - Granas ordered them to do so. Because Granas knew that his power, the creative power of light, is canceled out by darkness.
And that's when some humans discovered the Birthplace of Gods and used it to create armor that enabled a human to harness the power of darkness and fight Granas. Afraid of being caught, they built the armor in many pieces, scattered across the country. Each piece of armor possessed a machine to bind it to a human's soul and incorporate the human's strengths into the armor. Only in the center of their power, the moon, could all the parts be put together.
Then came the day when all the armor pieces were ready. A chosen one put on the armor and the people of darkness attacked the followers of Granas. A great war was the result, at the end of which Granas was able to kill Valmar. He shattered his armor and killed the human inside. At the same time, however, Granas was also fatally hit and fell to earth with the armor parts from Valmar, where he created the Grana Cliffs.
Granas like Valmar were basically dead, but while Granas was completely destroyed, Valmar's armor remained intact and returned to the places where it was made.
Valmar's supporters had been severely decimated. Due to Grana's death, the followers of Granas were no longer able to exercise their original power, they had become ordinary mortals and therefore could not destroy the armor parts of Valmar. So they built temples over them to prevent anyone from using the armor pieces and spread the rumor that Granas sealed Valmar in these places. Finally, they closed the battle robot factory and the Birthplace of Gods.
Then Ryudo came to the Borthplace of Gods and gained some of the power that Granas once had and his mind created the Granasaber.
When Valmar resurrected, he lacked horns, was imperfect, and also had a weak, completely insane mind, Zerra's. As a result, he was only a shadow of the former god and Ryudo and his companions were able to defeat him and this time completely destroy him. The power of a god flowed through Ryudo. He flew across the sky, bathed in the light of hope, like Granas once did. And through him the Grana Cliffs were healed and flooded with water. However, Ryudo renounced the power of a god by symbolically burying the Granasaber.
Granas and Valmar according to Elmo used the Birth Place of the Gods to develop their godly powers. So it seems their experiments dealt with, more than science like magic. Valmar can absorb souls, for example. I wouldn't be surprised that their original experiment was immortality. But, failed and Granas turned into a being or light and creation aka the God of Light. Granas wanted to be worshipped according to Elmo. He gave the powers of creation to humans. But, they started lacking ambitions, dreams, passions. He did though appear to love his worshippers, and didn't wish death or destruction on them.
Valmar and likely some of the People of Darkness, after viewing what Granas was doing thought what he was doing was dangerous. So Valmar or whatever human used the life-energy from the humans to give him powers to stop and resist Granas's. But, it twisted him with all the life he took from how many people he used in his experiments. I bet he lost his individual persona and sanity and always thought he was a god. And thus turned into the God of Darkness. During, the Battle of Good and Evil, he was able to kill Granas despite Granas's godly powers, but was also greatly damaged too. And his last followers of the People of Darkness, used their devices so that new people could use be infused with parts of Valmar to remake him. This is my theory of the game's mythology and history.
What if they were trying to do what Krona from DC did, only the aftermath was absolutely nothing in comparison. They might have been wondering about their origins, since they didn't create the world. And what they became was just an inkling of what really came before, or maybe a twisted incarnation thereof.
I think they said Valmar's own followers hid him away.
Zera se dio cuenta de eso e intentó rehacer a valmar usando su influencia y conexiones, manipulando a Melfice para reclutar a mas personas que buscasen el poder de valmar o al menos la ambicion suficientes para manipularlos y asi juntar rápidamente las demas piezas de valmar.
Oh! I guess I have played it 5 times too! lol
Well, I'm not sure. But I know that I have played several times.
@XxSakuraHarunoChanxX Ah. I was confused who gatlin127 was referring to. xD They all had cat ears! lol
I have it now. I have to listen to this narration for this but I don't mind. I'm not busy anyway. I'll also put the narration on the Video info.
im trying to play this game again, and nothing. the videos dosn't work, only the sound on the intro, but ingame when a video comes in, the game froze. i tryed to desinstall every codec, only FFDshow... but nothing =(
what a crap, i want to play it again!
Anyone has the complete text of Elmo's narration, please?
Thanks ;)
As someone who watched Babylon 5, I could not help myself finding similarities between the Vorlon/Shadows and Granas/Valmar. Two overbearing parents with different parenting methods that cannot let the young go and make their own way.
@XxSakuraHarunoChanxX Pretty much. ;) Who else would transform into the monstrous Valmar?
If you're playing on PC, try copying the videos/video folder into the game directory in your computer, along with the other files not included in the installation. If that doesn't work, maybe it's actually the PC which can't run the game properly, sorry.
@AlexanderLeon87 What little red crap?
@AlexanderLeon87 Elmo's new narration:
When the world was still young, young like Elmo! hah!
Biiiiiig light came. Granas!
Was bright light on everything, even Elmo!
Marvels was given to men, power to create things! Elmo made cookies, yum!
Prayer became form. Elmo got cookies!
Maaaaany wonders in those days.
All the cookies people wanted, was given to them!
But soon, people got tired of cookies.
Valmar came. He was big and scary, Elmo hid!
aaand running out of room...
Neverhood, right?
agree i also tought it was Valmasr's fault but then agina Good and evil they cant live whit them nor whitout this battle will always go on ^^ i just love this game i think i will play it agian
who is that at 1:09 ive never caught that before it looks like melfice with cat ears
Hehe, good luck! ^_^
@gatlin127 It's Valmar in his former human form.
Oh right. I didn't think of that lol
I'll try to get it for you.
It was the fault of those people who got scared of Granas! Granas only tried to help the people! And now, he's dead! :((
xD
That may not necessarily be true as a japanese version of this cutscene gives us more detailed description of this situation and it paints Granas as nothing more then being without will who's only goal was giving power to it worshipers in return for prayer and expanding it influence it changed its worshipers to the point where these two things(prayer and expansion ) become sole purpose of their lives and they lost their will and humanity .....Valmar on the other hand initially had no will of it own as it was akin to a weapon with power to cuse energy of the living beings to go berserk creating monsters in the process .the personality it eventually was nothing more combination of the negative aspects taken from all those who used it power as they become part of its core and as they were mainly people who feared and hated Granas the first Valamar created from them was hellbent on killing it .
@hernobleness Well, I don't wanna call Granas evil. Granas was good, but he was too good, and this too much goodness has caused something 'bad' to the people.
I think Granas became obsessed with making the ideal world, the ideal order and forgot about making the people genuinely happy and contented. Compelled co-operation is not co-operation. It is slavery.
@RhinForti lol xD
@AlexanderLeon87 Oh xD
I didn't get you. But, I think Elmo and all the other automatas are girls. If there are boys, they should be called automatons.
So:
1- The world was a baby. There existed people already?
2- Granas came from space.
3- People wanted free will, so started worshipping Valmar.
But where did Valmar come from? From people's desire of freedom? From space too? Or it already existed in Earth?
The world existed and there were already people living in it. Both Granas and Valmar were also humans, but they were superscientists of some sort and were able to evolve/transform themselves into God-like beings. Granas 'ascended' first and brought light and the gift of creation to the world. The people of the world became happy, but some of them saw danger in Granas' extreme generosity. Those people then joined Valmar, and Valmar transformed himself into the Devil of Darkness and waged war against Granas and his followers.
Oh, now I get it. Thanks!!!!
Caerulean Valmar has been called more often the God of Darkness. Only zealous followers of the Church of Granas thought of him as truly a Devil and not just the opposite and evil god to Granas whom was viewed as good. Likely Granas retained his sanity after his ascension into his power, but still saw himself as a god and protected and gave gifts to his people. Valmar likely lost his individual persona and a new one developed from the fusion of the many people and energy he took from people to resist Granas. And likely always thought he was a god.
It almost seems like The Church Of Granas fell into Valmar's hands since they knew the truth of the seals and did what they could so he was released.
They both could have lost who they were and what they did could have caused themselves to be imbued with the positive or negative traits of humanity or universe, with nothing to maintain the balance. Hence the ceaseless worship of Granas, and he probably was unable to consider the ramifications of granting people such an awesome power. In the end it was all a mistake.
@@jayesper4390 It's more like the church of granas was left with the ruins of the war of good and evil. They then created this narrative that if humanity warded off the inherent evil within themselves then one day Granas would reawaken from a long slumber and save humanity from themselves. (Theres a passage in the library explaining what the church of granas believes.)
Eventually the church of Granas lost it's idealism and decayed into apathy. Then you get Zera who is a devout follower of the church believing Granas will return to save everyone. Then he rises to pope and is told the church's greatest secret. That Granas is dead. Zera has been taught humanity is doomed unless Granas returns and so now he's faced with a doomed world. People are inherently evil so he can't rely on other people to fix this problem. So HE must fix this problem. He falls into self aggrandisement and convinces himself that he can control Valmar and make a new Granas with Valmar to save humanity.
Huh?
Ok :D
GRAN-ASS
Wow, this really explains the Republicans and Democrats!