It's not about the game, it's not about the sports, it's not about the fans or best players, it's , unfortunately, about the money. Everything will become a business.
"everything will become a business" incase youre new to gaming and esports... its always been a business. games are made to create profit for a company. and esports orgs make every decision to ensure they dont drop below their bottom line... it was never for the players and fans exclusively... its always been about money but that isnt an issue because most educated people know that.
I mean its the same about sports in general. Once you want a revenue you need to bring something that is could generate money for the org (which for the player is winning most of the time). The world turns around money and you have to accept it.
I hate it. Franchising only means the crappy teams can stay. Without relegation and promotion it is less exciting. The worst don't fear falling down a rung and the best don't get to bash their heads against the best of the world from other similar tournaments. It could be better for everyone and more exciting for everyone. I guess uninspired grey investors don't like excitement if it doesn't keep their investments safe. Which is why this setup exists in the first place, as he said in the video.
Football (soccer for the americans) doesn't have franchising and when they tried to introduce a semi franchised league in europe there was massive opposition to it. Top teams secure their position in top leagues by investing in the best players and coaches not by paying a lump sum upfront, it's far more interesting to watch as every team has to try their hardest or they will get relegated. This means teams can't just do the bare minimum to scrape a roster together so they can save money and gives additional weight to the matches between lower-ranked teams. I genuinely think the franchised model has harmed the competitive integrity of the overwatch league as there is no way to punish lazy owners.
For me, franchising is a net negative. It takes the big stakes away from much of the league table. The only good part is that it seems to funnel more money to the few pros that are in the ecosystem, but I don't care if the orgs make money. I would much rather watch 5 collage friends or a group of high level players patch together a team and push through the ranks then help Golden State expand there billion dollar empire. Grass roots Esports are more exciting.
Yes. One can also look at the footbal in NA vs the rest of the world, one having relegation and the other not. European clubs are just way more competitive bc of this structural difference.
If you want that go watch a sports anime or something because that's fantasy. The reality is even without franchises they'd cut the weakest player even if they were friends.
@@BlueLightningSky Oh yea, if they are a top team you have too. Most top teams in open format games are just a collection of the best players from the ladder.
Franchising feels like a necessary evil since the ability to buy your spot sounds wack af but the stability of it makes sense. but i feel like there should always be spots for teams outside of the league to make it in. like let's say there are 10 teams that buy spots. there should be 6 open spots and a qualification round for those 6 spots so we can get both the stability and the open spots which will be great (i hope this is the system most tournaments use.) *the number obviously changes depending on how many spots teams buy unless the league puts a cap on how many spots can be bought*
That just leads to instability. Here in the 10 franchised team players will get paid millions and the players from the 6 open teams will get paid thousands, not to mention the difference in training and living facility. The moment the open teams start beating some of the franchised teams more problems will occur and fanbase/income will fluctuate, and will lead to instability.
@@hierophace1830 that actually seems like it will happen but persally I feel like that system might be a good middle ground tho idk about much about the 2 systems. but if open teams beat paided in teams that wouldn't be a problem. the only problem could be that they would fire their whole team and get a new one or pull out of the tournament but i don't see something like that happening.
@@hierophace1830 I think that's fine. In general sports/ranked you are constantly matched against opponents with different conditions. So it's up to you to overcome such conditions and take a win. I have a ping of 120, I play on unstable 30-50 FPS on a laptop and I main the worst hero in the game (Genji in ow1). But I'm still nearly masters (3497 peak and currently 3450) which is like top3% of playerbase. Maybe less now So, thousands of dollars still sounds like a lot lol. They should be able to overcome this and if they don't - nobody expected them to anyway. Idea sounds great.
eSports teams are not yet profitable, they want to get as much titles as possible so that investors come to them and not others. It's all about securing their future
My favorite team was League of Legends' team Elements from back when they were Alliance. The way I fell in love with them was the insane Orianna shockwave in their relegation match against the then-LCS team Giants. The insane outplay, the rise from Challenger to LCS, the energy they brought those games... All gone with the franchising model. Farewell to hype and interest of new players. I may love Rekkless and Faker and all sorts of old school players, there needs to be more natural ways to have big teams get upset by upstarts with more chemistry than individual mechanics. ...Not that League is the same game as it used to be anyway.
Funny that the decision to move forward is to halt the growth of the core identity of the scene and lower risks, instead of explore said identity itself. I am talking about "competition", the main thing that makes everyone excited and hooked into in the first place, both participants and spectators. Lower competition stakes > lower competitor participatory factor level > slower competition level growth > less spectator interest > less audience > less sponsor > less money
Franchise makes sense short term not long term. An example of sports that has done well without Franchise Football or soccer the thrill of football is your favourite team isn’t safe and you could be beaten by a grass roots team so the big teams have to get the best players it make it way more competitive
I find really weird that so many esport games that put so much emphasis on competetive spirit are franchised. Because if some teams can't go down, that completely undermines the competitive aspect and makes it very boring
At first I had mixed reactions about this but now that I know how it works and how it effects the game I now think it's a bad idea plus it failed in call of duty and in overwatch and now riot wants to franchise valorant
Franchising is extremely case by case. In OW for example, contenders is essencially a joke that has no money to be ran, meaning being relegated to contenders as an org means that you're pretty much never going to financially recover if you were already paying more than you were winning. In other games it's probably completely diferent however, given that the minor leagues might have more money or fame than contenders does
Regarding franchising in the LCS a team can actually lose their spot if they place last 4 splits in a row if I recall correctly. While that hasn't happened yet and may not be the perfect solution it does still at least provide some incentive for teams to try to avoid consistently underperforming if they want to keep their spot. After all, if you payed good money to get into the league only to coast by and/or consistently fail again and again then you don't deserve your spot in the league anymore. That aside I think it depends on the situation. While am argument can be made that it discourages teams from trying as hard an argument can also be made for it allowing more players, coaches and staff an opportunity to play, coach and staff than they might have if they were on a team that had to worry about relegation because of one bad split. It's not perfect as at least in the LCS NA talent is still often overlooked in favor of imports but it's better than nothing.
i think esport should be more a community game rather than being an franchise thing because no game is safe from falling and no game cant be stay mainstream for the long time
idk. i feel like trust and good coordination without good coaching can beat well coached players who dont really know eachother, and i like seeing those stories, and it feels like most of the teams who become dominant for any serious stretch of time already knew eachother for a while before getting so good, and i dont like the way its used for advertising or how the team is personified for marketing purposes, like how everyone talks about the shanghai dragons in overwatch going from 0-40 to winning a season
Love for the game does not drive competition. Money does and the kind of money that is secure. If franchises help support teams and players, sure why not. It's not like anyone is complaining about how the NBA isn't competitive. I think however this only makes sense for team based games. For solo games it's unnecessary, pushes out way too many players and most likely unprofitable
Stopped reading after your first sentence. If money was the only thing fostering competition, no esports would exist. What prize pools were there back before the 2010s to grow and attract a competitive playerbase?
the open quals in dota for ti is the best way to get great stories like in 2018 with OG all the way from open quals but then again the dota2 circuit just leaves a bad taste in mouth like how the tier 2 or 3 teams cant even make enough to live off
why don't they make a really big leage (20-30 teams) for eachregion, one for Na and Latam, other for Europe, other for Asia, And another one for Oceania, and when the leagues are over, they do with the2 or 4 best teams of each regionplay a tournament to see what is the best team? Btw I'm talking in terms of LoL and there would't be any summer or spring split, just one split that occupies 3/4 of a year, and then the tournament.
Esports have a long way to go in regards to pay structure... In traditional sports, if you're a pro and are on the worst team you still can make a living. Esports orgs just cycle through people like they're nothing and the people who actually have the talent have no reliable income. The game companies basically take advantage of their "pros" and run away with all of the money. Pretty dumb if you ask me.
Franchising is good for stability of the owners but terrible for competition, at least in europe, the state of the LEC is very bad with teams with no intention to compete, just holding a spot hostage forming terrible team after terrible team for cheap just to hoard their cut on advertising money and wait for their spot to gain value to sell it for some upcomer ERL team for profit. Viewers dont even connect to watch those teams and that will end up hurting the league financial stability in the future since sponsors will quickly realize fans only care about 3-4 teams for the most part.
There really should be at least 2 slots for non-franchise teams in these franchise leagues. I get that there are massive benefits for established teams to be able to rest on their laurels but creating a path for up and coming teams also needs to be viable for the game to actually stay competitive
Still no franchising in dota but, they have a season now and they made a point system to decide who gets to join TI. Significantly different from before where you can instantly rise from the bottom because there was open qualifiers. They now made a ladder esque type of circuit with ti at the top
Franchising makes sense, and it creates a fan base. I don’t know how people didn’t expect that to happen the bigger it got. It’s not like a lot of these teams would be around if they didn’t have a guaranteed spot already
As an OWL fan, I really enjoy how they operate. Something about having franchises be from a city rather than be just some name is endearing to me. Contenders has that homegrown, grassroots feel if you're looking for that too (a university team won too not too long ago), and top players on those teams get promoted to the big League all the time. Not saying the system is perfect by any means, Contenders needs some serious monetary help, but having a cemented field of teams that compete against each other all the time feels like the better option to me. I can't imagine a world where the Phoenix Suns got demoted to the G League because of their recent abysmal seasons, the whole comeback story of them finding pieces to build with and developing Ayton and Booker would've never happened then. Exact same story goes for the Shanghai Dragons!
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
It's not about the game, it's not about the sports, it's not about the fans or best players, it's , unfortunately, about the money. Everything will become a business.
"everything will become a business" incase youre new to gaming and esports... its always been a business. games are made to create profit for a company. and esports orgs make every decision to ensure they dont drop below their bottom line... it was never for the players and fans exclusively... its always been about money but that isnt an issue because most educated people know that.
Sports Is A Business, infact everything is a business. Without money nothing can sustain.
Unless you want to depend on the uncertain nature of charity, everything will need to be a business to sustain themselves.
Not everything is free so they have to pay the bill, even in E-sports wouldn't escape that
I mean its the same about sports in general. Once you want a revenue you need to bring something that is could generate money for the org (which for the player is winning most of the time). The world turns around money and you have to accept it.
I hate it.
Franchising only means the crappy teams can stay. Without relegation and promotion it is less exciting. The worst don't fear falling down a rung and the best don't get to bash their heads against the best of the world from other similar tournaments.
It could be better for everyone and more exciting for everyone. I guess uninspired grey investors don't like excitement if it doesn't keep their investments safe.
Which is why this setup exists in the first place, as he said in the video.
investors don't like losing money. who would have thought?
Frn
Football (soccer for the americans) doesn't have franchising and when they tried to introduce a semi franchised league in europe there was massive opposition to it. Top teams secure their position in top leagues by investing in the best players and coaches not by paying a lump sum upfront, it's far more interesting to watch as every team has to try their hardest or they will get relegated. This means teams can't just do the bare minimum to scrape a roster together so they can save money and gives additional weight to the matches between lower-ranked teams. I genuinely think the franchised model has harmed the competitive integrity of the overwatch league as there is no way to punish lazy owners.
They did done it they pushed nepotism in sport. Sad shit
For esports to be the next big thing, it has to be a good business decision or no business will come to it.
Call a spade a spade.
Buisness
For me, franchising is a net negative. It takes the big stakes away from much of the league table. The only good part is that it seems to funnel more money to the few pros that are in the ecosystem, but I don't care if the orgs make money. I would much rather watch 5 collage friends or a group of high level players patch together a team and push through the ranks then help Golden State expand there billion dollar empire. Grass roots Esports are more exciting.
Yes. One can also look at the footbal in NA vs the rest of the world, one having relegation and the other not. European clubs are just way more competitive bc of this structural difference.
If you want that go watch a sports anime or something because that's fantasy. The reality is even without franchises they'd cut the weakest player even if they were friends.
@@BlueLightningSky Oh yea, if they are a top team you have too. Most top teams in open format games are just a collection of the best players from the ladder.
Franchising feels like a necessary evil since the ability to buy your spot sounds wack af but the stability of it makes sense. but i feel like there should always be spots for teams outside of the league to make it in. like let's say there are 10 teams that buy spots. there should be 6 open spots and a qualification round for those 6 spots so we can get both the stability and the open spots which will be great (i hope this is the system most tournaments use.)
*the number obviously changes depending on how many spots teams buy unless the league puts a cap on how many spots can be bought*
That just leads to instability. Here in the 10 franchised team players will get paid millions and the players from the 6 open teams will get paid thousands, not to mention the difference in training and living facility. The moment the open teams start beating some of the franchised teams more problems will occur and fanbase/income will fluctuate, and will lead to instability.
@@hierophace1830 that actually seems like it will happen but persally I feel like that system might be a good middle ground tho idk about much about the 2 systems. but if open teams beat paided in teams that wouldn't be a problem. the only problem could be that they would fire their whole team and get a new one or pull out of the tournament but i don't see something like that happening.
@@hierophace1830 I think that's fine. In general sports/ranked you are constantly matched against opponents with different conditions. So it's up to you to overcome such conditions and take a win.
I have a ping of 120, I play on unstable 30-50 FPS on a laptop and I main the worst hero in the game (Genji in ow1). But I'm still nearly masters (3497 peak and currently 3450) which is like top3% of playerbase. Maybe less now
So, thousands of dollars still sounds like a lot lol. They should be able to overcome this and if they don't - nobody expected them to anyway. Idea sounds great.
eSports teams are not yet profitable, they want to get as much titles as possible so that investors come to them and not others. It's all about securing their future
@6:07 "more competitive" The whole point of franchising is to *remove* competition, that's how it provides stability for owners.
My favorite team was League of Legends' team Elements from back when they were Alliance. The way I fell in love with them was the insane Orianna shockwave in their relegation match against the then-LCS team Giants. The insane outplay, the rise from Challenger to LCS, the energy they brought those games... All gone with the franchising model. Farewell to hype and interest of new players. I may love Rekkless and Faker and all sorts of old school players, there needs to be more natural ways to have big teams get upset by upstarts with more chemistry than individual mechanics.
...Not that League is the same game as it used to be anyway.
Great timing with this video with the announcement of the new valorant system !
Funny that the decision to move forward is to halt the growth of the core identity of the scene and lower risks, instead of explore said identity itself. I am talking about "competition", the main thing that makes everyone excited and hooked into in the first place, both participants and spectators.
Lower competition stakes > lower competitor participatory factor level > slower competition level growth > less spectator interest > less audience > less sponsor > less money
Franchise makes sense short term not long term. An example of sports that has done well without Franchise Football or soccer the thrill of football is your favourite team isn’t safe and you could be beaten by a grass roots team so the big teams have to get the best players it make it way more competitive
I find really weird that so many esport games that put so much emphasis on competetive spirit are franchised. Because if some teams can't go down, that completely undermines the competitive aspect and makes it very boring
Yeah the biggest problem with Valorant the game is made with an esport in mind and Riot compete with CS
At first I had mixed reactions about this but now that I know how it works and how it effects the game I now think it's a bad idea plus it failed in call of duty and in overwatch and now riot wants to franchise valorant
Franchising is extremely case by case. In OW for example, contenders is essencially a joke that has no money to be ran, meaning being relegated to contenders as an org means that you're pretty much never going to financially recover if you were already paying more than you were winning.
In other games it's probably completely diferent however, given that the minor leagues might have more money or fame than contenders does
One of the reasons that I love esports is that anyone can compete at any level. This is taking that factor away.
esports are turning into everything i hate about regular sports
Regarding franchising in the LCS a team can actually lose their spot if they place last 4 splits in a row if I recall correctly. While that hasn't happened yet and may not be the perfect solution it does still at least provide some incentive for teams to try to avoid consistently underperforming if they want to keep their spot. After all, if you payed good money to get into the league only to coast by and/or consistently fail again and again then you don't deserve your spot in the league anymore.
That aside I think it depends on the situation. While am argument can be made that it discourages teams from trying as hard an argument can also be made for it allowing more players, coaches and staff an opportunity to play, coach and staff than they might have if they were on a team that had to worry about relegation because of one bad split. It's not perfect as at least in the LCS NA talent is still often overlooked in favor of imports but it's better than nothing.
Franchising is the perfect definition for a double-edged sword, catch 22, rock and a hard place etc. It is a necessary evil
i think esport should be more a community game rather than being an franchise thing because no game is safe from falling and no game cant be stay mainstream for the long time
if esports wants to be big then companies will likely want franchising, that’s best for the companies but not the best thing for the community.
necessary evil. It might be hard to admit but money is important. A pro can't stay a pro if he can't even make enough money and feed themselves.
idk. i feel like trust and good coordination without good coaching can beat well coached players who dont really know eachother, and i like seeing those stories, and it feels like most of the teams who become dominant for any serious stretch of time already knew eachother for a while before getting so good, and i dont like the way its used for advertising or how the team is personified for marketing purposes, like how everyone talks about the shanghai dragons in overwatch going from 0-40 to winning a season
Love for the game does not drive competition. Money does and the kind of money that is secure. If franchises help support teams and players, sure why not. It's not like anyone is complaining about how the NBA isn't competitive. I think however this only makes sense for team based games. For solo games it's unnecessary, pushes out way too many players and most likely unprofitable
Stopped reading after your first sentence. If money was the only thing fostering competition, no esports would exist. What prize pools were there back before the 2010s to grow and attract a competitive playerbase?
Sports is too complicated. I just want to play games at home on my comfy chair.
It's just an excuse to keep investors pleased and not lose money.
I'm sorry, i must have misheard, did he said "a huge step forward?", pretty sure he meant "a huge step backwards".
the open quals in dota for ti is the best way to get great stories like in 2018 with OG all the way from open quals but then again the dota2 circuit just leaves a bad taste in mouth like how the tier 2 or 3 teams cant even make enough to live off
I thought this video was about League of Legends when almost all the clips were from them. Isnt overwatch League doing good?
hey idk if your going to see this but please do a dawngate video one of my favorite mobas
what a boring league to just watch teams competing against against the same team again and again.
Paid by steve
why don't they make a really big leage (20-30 teams) for eachregion, one for Na and Latam, other for Europe, other for Asia, And another one for Oceania, and when the leagues are over, they do with the2 or 4 best teams of each regionplay a tournament to see what is the best team? Btw I'm talking in terms of LoL and there would't be any summer or spring split, just one split that occupies 3/4 of a year, and then the tournament.
Can you do a video on Plants vs Zombies pls?
Esports have a long way to go in regards to pay structure... In traditional sports, if you're a pro and are on the worst team you still can make a living. Esports orgs just cycle through people like they're nothing and the people who actually have the talent have no reliable income. The game companies basically take advantage of their "pros" and run away with all of the money. Pretty dumb if you ask me.
Its Franchising Model, opposed to Promotion And Relegation Model. Nothing new.
Both models has their own benefits and downsides.
i think they should do like csgo mix both
Franchising is good for stability of the owners but terrible for competition, at least in europe, the state of the LEC is very bad with teams with no intention to compete, just holding a spot hostage forming terrible team after terrible team for cheap just to hoard their cut on advertising money and wait for their spot to gain value to sell it for some upcomer ERL team for profit. Viewers dont even connect to watch those teams and that will end up hurting the league financial stability in the future since sponsors will quickly realize fans only care about 3-4 teams for the most part.
Nice Vid!
All I know is I'm loving the epic TSM slow heel turn
Blizzard push hard and failed. Riot waited and succeed.
yeah sure but...its LOL tho, soooo...mmmah
A good video as aways
Also first in here nice
You couldn’t even watch it by then 🤦♂️
@@BenjaminBüchler still i was first and that what matters.
Thanks for the vid
There really should be at least 2 slots for non-franchise teams in these franchise leagues. I get that there are massive benefits for established teams to be able to rest on their laurels but creating a path for up and coming teams also needs to be viable for the game to actually stay competitive
Fuck franchising. Git gud.
Is this only for LoL and Overwatch? Is the same structure for Dota2? I havent kept up to much with dota2 besides watching The Internationals
last i checked valve is against franchising
Last i checked dota2 didnt have a regular season like OWL and LCS do so there would be nothing to franchise
Still no franchising in dota but,
they have a season now and they made a point system to decide who gets to join TI.
Significantly different from before where you can instantly rise from the bottom because there was open qualifiers. They now made a ladder esque type of circuit with ti at the top
League of Ls
Franchising makes sense, and it creates a fan base. I don’t know how people didn’t expect that to happen the bigger it got.
It’s not like a lot of these teams would be around if they didn’t have a guaranteed spot already
As an OWL fan, I really enjoy how they operate. Something about having franchises be from a city rather than be just some name is endearing to me. Contenders has that homegrown, grassroots feel if you're looking for that too (a university team won too not too long ago), and top players on those teams get promoted to the big League all the time. Not saying the system is perfect by any means, Contenders needs some serious monetary help, but having a cemented field of teams that compete against each other all the time feels like the better option to me. I can't imagine a world where the Phoenix Suns got demoted to the G League because of their recent abysmal seasons, the whole comeback story of them finding pieces to build with and developing Ayton and Booker would've never happened then. Exact same story goes for the Shanghai Dragons!
What a stupid concept.