Rather than express the character's idiocyncratic beliefs as hypocricies as flaws, I see main characters flaws as natural extensions of their strengths, or visa verse. Laios isn't Monster Expert who is also Socially Inept, he IS Monster Expert because he has experienced deep social alienation since young age, channeling his frustration and desire to belong into obsessive pursuit of understanding the monstrous.
It's also because he's autistic. And that's not a bit, he and falin are GREAT examples of autistic coded characters that are treated with respect, not infantalized or dehumanized or treated as stupid (by the text at least. lookin at you shuro)
whereas kabru hates monsters and fears he’s a monster (not literally aside from spoiler childhood anxiety), so he goes the other way and obsesses over human behavior, and also cuz of the trauma of utaya. laios hasn’t known the same grief or terror to the same extent and got a taste for the first time w falin. they’re perfect foils.
The thing with Laios warning Senshi about the kelpie is that (I’m pretty sure) in the manga it’s shown that he himself fell victim to a kelpie in the exact same way Senshi did here, which is why he’s prepared to stop him. But Laios being laios didn’t really learn his lesson and never really does throughout the series. Rationally he knows not to anthropomorpolise monsters but he just loves them so much he can’t help himself
Quick note, both the pan and knife do need to be taken care of. The reason they’re in good condition and the axe is not is because he doesn’t care about weapons, but does care for cooking.
Yes, and it's totally played for humor, especially in the scene where they talk about using the knife as a weapon, and we see Senshi clutching it to his chest and frowning. Also, he didn't know there were any special properties to these things until Namari told him. They were just great for cooking. Again, humor. 😊
Yes, exactly! Senshi feels a lot like some people I interact with irl. They divide the world into "things I'm comfortable with" vs "things I'm not comfortable with", and instead of recognizing that, they draw up other ways to divide the two, no matter how much these other labels overlap
I think the difference is the metal is a thing that just happens to be related to magic. The problem Senshi seems to have is when magic is used for reasons he considers unnatural, like healing wounds faster and raising the dead for example
So Laios needs to learn that he can't replace humans with monsters, for more comfortable he feels around them. Marcille has to learn to stop doubting people that have proven their intenitions and competency to her Chilchuck has to learn to appreciate the skills of others like he wants them to appreciate his' And Senshi has to learn to respect the paths people take in life, and understand the importance of becoming an expert on a field, even if it means never picking up other skills. The common line being on the importance of having a community and relying on one-another to become stronger together.
"I don't like magics, but those golems are useful. And all I do is just digging a hole and farming. They're practical," The NON-PRACTICAL is up there, Senshi.
I think their own hypocrisy is what makes these characters interesting in the first place. Especially when even characters themselves call it out (as an example, Senshi called out Laios about Kensuke and kelpy situation when the party learned about it). Because when it comes to some other titles where some controversial opinions or straight up hypocrisy will be later on cherished as the ultimate truth and peak of morality (*COUGH COUGH* Naruto... *COUGH*) this makes the show more entertaining, building more inner (and outer) conflicts on the background that are based of those hypocrisies and not just beliefs. People are made of contradictions, and that's what makes us alive. Anyway, this was a nice analysis. Keep up a good work.
I feel like most if not all of the characters in Dungeon Meshi are a bit hypocritical. To me it's something that makes them human, and I love to go back to observe their behavior and understand it better. They're all different, so it's easy to think such and such character makes weird choices because you don't relate, but once you learn more it starts to make so much sense. For me that character was Kabru, I found his chapters boring and I didn't understand him at all, but now I actually appreciate him and his contradictions, as well as his place in the story.
He's built, but the side stories show that his body fat is actually pretty high, which makes sense considering aesthetics don't matter as much for an adventurer.
@@Redheadedhypocrite iirc, in lore Laios does mention having to bulk to prepare for his delves before the whole monster eating strat, so him eating 3 square meals of monster probably has him leaner than usual, at least leaner than the first halves of his previous delves.
I think that you don’t know the definition of hypocrisy. Laois knows that he shouldn’t trust monsters-Laois still inadvertently trusts monsters. This is weakness, not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy requires that he insist that he has no such weakness, or that he spins it as a virtue when he does it, and a moral failing when others do it. Laois is fairly nonjudgmental in reminding everyone that they shouldn’t trust monsters, he is just unable to refrain, and he apologizes for his lapses. Senshi insists on avoiding the “unnatural” and the “easy way out”, but he lives in an eldritch location, cultivating and harnessing it to his own ends. This is not hypocrisy, because Senshi thinks this is the most natural place in the world, and the most natural thing to be doing in it. We see it as “magical” and “unnatural”, and as the creation of a lunatic magician, but to Senshi it’s just the natural order of things. He sees Marcille’s relatively mundane water-walking spell as a deviation from the laws of nature, because he doesn’t know what is nature, what is science, and what is magical. He thinks that his “normal” is natural, and that “abnormal” is unnatural. And who knows? Our own reality could be a soap bubble protecting us from Lovecraftian horrors, and our own “science” and “normal” could be an unnatural location within the rest of the cosmos. We don’t know, and just like Senshi, we would rather declare familiar things “normal” even if we don’t fully understand them, than think too hard about what might lie beneath. Marcille doesn’t want to eat new food, but she does perform ancient magic. She sees no connection.
"You don't know the definition of hypocrisy" *proceeds to give an example of the textbook definition of hypocrisy in the very next line of the comment* "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform" Literally copy and pasted from Miriam-Webster. This describes every member of the party, to the varying extents I described in the video.
@@ElliotGeltz Not quite. Genuinely trying to meet your own moral standards and failing is sad, but is not hypocrisy. Do you believe that every person at Alcoholics Anonymous is a hypocrite when their resolve breaks down? But all of that is somewhat irrelevant to the matter at hand. “Ew that looks nasty, I’m not eating it!” Isn’t actually a moral standard or belief. “I really need to stop falling for every monstrous deception I see, or we will die.” Is also not a moral standard or belief. “Don’t trust monsters. I do, then they try to kill us.” Is advice with an observation tacked on. “Let’s not hurt the ghosts and zombies if we can avoid it, because we would not want to be hurt if we were them.” Is a moral standard and/or belief. “Don’t use Ancient Magic, I heard it’s evil!” Is a moral stance by proxy, as the team don’t actually know how the thing they oppose is harmful.
@@cassandrabelyeu2419 Honestly, I just don't think we're gonna see eye to eye on this. I think you raise valid points, but I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree brother.
@@ElliotGeltz Morality: noun 1. principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. "the matter boiled down to simple morality: innocent prisoners ought to be freed" 2. A particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society. plural noun: moralities "a bourgeois morality" 3. The extent to which an action is right or wrong. "behind all the arguments lies the issue of the morality of the possession of nuclear weapons"
Knowing what you're doing does not match up with your personal beliefs gives you an opportunity to either change beliefs or shift actions to better align with one another in your head. If you cannot do that, you're a hypocrite. I believe that every member of the party struggles with some level of cognitive dissonance and it can manifest as hypocrisy. Laios is initially a hypocrite because he hides Kensuke's existence. Even after being outed for this hypocrisy, he keeps the sword and explains away his lapse in principles with the defense that the benefits outweigh the risks. This is hypocritical behavior, even if he feels bad about it. He hasn't changed his behavior and he hasn't changed his belief about all monsters being dangerous. I don't have easy examples at the moment for the other party members, but you get the idea.
I found the character writing and design to be actually BETTER than in Frieren, and that anime is hailed as a masterpiece already. they feel like real people because perfect consistency is unnatural.
Yeah, same. I don't have anything negative to say about Frieren, but like... I don't like it enough to make videos about it, and I think I'll leave it at that, lol
i'm not sure where you're getting this idea that senshi's wok and knife don't need to be taken care of. he explicitly talks about how hard he works maintaining them at various points in the story
That's a verry good dive into the writing of Ryoko Kui. It shows how all those characters are alike in the fact that they all have self indulgence and blind spots they are happy to ignore. They are know the ins and outs of their field, so they feel like they can mess with it. But it only means they can fall in bigger traps in their own right. I think that's a verry clever way of writing a team of specialists, and a team of friends. With similar flaws, all telling different things and expressing themselves in different ways. I'll keep it :)
Good analysis, I'd noticed some of these examples myself but hadn't thought too deep on them or how they reflect on each character. I think Laios is definitely one of the most interesting characters to analyze with his hypocrisy towards monsters, especially given the manga's final battle and ending, but ultimately I like how these traits help them feel like real, nuanced people who react to the dungeon's environment in different ways :-)
Samesies. I'm planning on covering each of the characters in their own dedicated videos as the most prominent moments of their arcs get animated, meaning Laios will most likely be last.
I like that you didn´t take the characters hypocrisy as something bad but as an important characteristics that makes the characters more human, good video.
7:38 Minor Correction - Senshi wasn't given the Adamant Wok/Pot as a family heirloom gift. He was given a Adamant Shield as the family heirloom gift. But he repurposed it as a Wok/Pot instead, as he though it was a waste as a Shield, which i think is much worse.
Yeah that's a very good analysis ! I feel like these flaws are so well written because they make the characters feels very realistic. probably the most realistic i ever saw in any series, manga or anime ! People irl are all inconsistent and hypocrites in one way or another and the fact the mangaka recognizes that is soooo good.
I feel like Chilchuck would stay in his lane [AKA, when he usually avoids fights], but he has to step in sometimes because the main party are a bunch of idiots so he doesn't really have much of a choice.
Without going into spoilers much, why is it taboo to use dark magic for resurrection? I mean, it's not too different from a simple resurrection spell(which is totally accepted by society). It just takes a few extra steps. I understand the ramifications of Fallien being resurrected using the dragon meat, but why, generally, is it taboo?
@@elitegamer9310 I can't really describe it without a great deal of spoilers. Like, in any way, lol The emotional satisfaction of the reveal is very much worth the read, that's all I'll say
Spoilers for the manga**** The point about senshi upholding the ecology of the dungeon is really interesting considering that if the dungeon were to function as usual, the small monsters Would be overhunted by people and monsters leading larger monsters to head to upper levels and eventually the over world.....
Your work's great. But your volume control is B-Grade. Since you aren't airing video, but rather audio with a visual overlay from the reviewed media, I suggest some homework on proper audio decibels as well as audio "cleaning" - we can hear every cut and edit in this clip.
You better step lightly insulting these characters Mr. You're on thin ground. On shaky ice. This has been one of my favourite mangas for 10 years so I'ma fight you if you don't watch your teeth...
Lol, I'll step lightly. I mean what I said throughout the video. I do genuinely love this series and its characters. I don't point out these things to disparage them. I think it's great that the author applied genuine, real faults to these characters, and I love the arcs they go through as they grow past these facets of their personalities.
I mean I love my squad as well, but hypocrisy is easily the most noticable flaw of these characters, especially Laios. The mangaka went out of her way to make it evident that he doesn't abide the rules he set up, he tells senshi monsters can't be trusted and then he makes that very mistake time and time again (Kensuke, Falin, Succubus, the Lion). He even realizes it and apologizes for it himself. These characters are written to be human and and analysing what makes them human is not insulting. Even Itsuzumi isn't an exception, she's all about doing things she likes without a care for others, yet at the last arc she constantly criticizes others for not knowing enough about Marcille.
@@billlee3851 Making mistakes is not being a hypocrite. Being a hypocrite would be if the character insisted that they did not have this failing, or that it was a virtue when they did it.
@cassandrabelyeu2419 I'd say what you described is being delusional. Hypocrisy is mostly known as telling someone else to do something or abide by a set of rules despite not doing so yourself. It's like an alcoholic telling someone to drink responsibly.
@@simplyeyeronic1443 Struggling with alcoholism while being painfully aware of the downsides and warning others about it is neither delusion nor hypocrisy. Presenting yourself as someone who is above struggling with alcohol, while doing all of the above, falls into hypocrisy and possibly delusion.
You know I had the exact same opinions on a these characters and many others that we meet later in the manga. But honestly this aspect of the series made it a really frustrating read to me personally. I found often that the characters were horribly inconsiderate to each other, made nonsensical decisions, and were just generally awful to follow. I also feel that by the end very little was learned by anyone and none of them really rectified these aspects of themselves or even faced consequences for the actions taken as a result of them. A mildly enjoyable story at times, and the ending was better than I was expecting, but honestly a 3/10 wouldn't recommend it.
That's life, dungeon meshi might have some overarching moral lesson but it never felt like such to me Life just happens and continues along even against minor or major upheaval, I love the story for it
@@fabianlaibin6956 no that's on me I deleted it just cuz I've been trying to get into less arguments about things like this online if someone else didn't explicitly disagree with any take I made. But I was basically just saying that I think the distinction between fiction and reality is precisely that in real life things don't have to be satisfying or conclusive and people don't have to evolve or change but that fiction precisely as a strength should give us charactes with real character arcs.
I can sympathize with this take. But I also look at how the party leaves Khabru's group with most of their supplies and enough money to pay for their resurrections. I look at how even though Laios doesn't get why Marcille and Chilichuck would object to eating certain monsters and not others, he respects his friends' boundaries and doesn't push it. I look at how Shuro is horrified at Marcille's dark magic, but has empathy enough to put himself in her shoes and admit he'd probably do the same to save Falin, and even gives Laios' group a magic item to escape the authorities. I look at how Senshi cares so *deeply* about his responsibilites as the oldest and most experienced in the group, and does everything in his power to provide for them. There's just so much humanity and sincerity and *heart* in this story. I just can't help but love it.
Not only is this comment wrong, but it made me very sad. First, let's go over the wrong: "very little was learned by anyone and none of them really rectified these aspects of themselves" Laios - Realizes he has trauma regarding other humans, that his fascination in the monstrous is rooted in his disgust of the normal. Once he is aware of this bias he is able confront it and self-actualize. He also learns about responsibility -- recall, he ran from his sister when he through she was being disparaged for having magic inclinations, even when she was fine with most of the treatment. He dropped out of school and then deserted from the army. By the end of the story, he takes up the responsibility of being king (something he doesn't really want to do or feel suited for) not just because of responsibility, but because he now understands how to rely on people more to shore up his weak points. Marcille - Marcille begins the story haunted by her uniqueness, but also driven by it. She thinks of herself as above others, and in many aspects she is, but it means she puts a lot of weight into her biases, and when her focus and drive overwhelms her she ignores good sense. By the end of the story, she has learned humility. She willingly turns herself over to the canaries, no longer considering herself above the law and it's Laios that has to dig her out of that prison sentence. Instead of trying to thwart the inevitable, she concludes that she will have to learn to live with it. Chilchuck - Chilchuck doesn't change because God made him perfect. Senshi - Senshi also confronts and overturns his own biases: "magic does require work and isn't cheating, it's just a different kind of work" and "adventurers aren't leeches to the dungeon, but a part of its ecosystem" are some of the two most pronounced mini-arcs he has. the world - a whole new kingdom arises, one which attempts to understand and accept monsters, and those who are considered monster adjacent. The last conversation in the series is Laios talking to an orc and kobold child, demi-human races that were considered 'sub-human' by most but are treated equally here. Further, the disappearance of demons can be seen as a metaphorical shift in how the everyone will have to deal with their desires -- They can no longer chase desire directly by shutting themselves off in dungeons, they have to live and settle for doing what they can every day. Izutsumi has an entire chapter devoted to polishing off her arc and there are like 2 different videos on this website about it, I'm not going to go over it here. But the real reason I had to respond (I don't really like commenting, ever) is because you make me sad, man. One of the major themes of the book is people from different backgrounds will have fundamental differences, but that if time and effort is spent they can come to understand and appreciate each other. "[they] act horribly inconsiderate [and make] nonsensical decisions" is exactly the sort of things that people who don't take the time to understand say when confronted with people who have different customs, and would rather otherize them than understand them. Your second comment about 'the strength of fiction' being that it can give us exactly what we want (satisfying arcs) is directly criticized by the text itself -- leading people along 'perfect little narratives' is what demons do! Imagine yourself, locked away from messy, conflicting, imperfect humanity in a deep oubliette, your demon salamander asking you what you want. Every day, you say the same thing: "Show me something satisfying and conclusive, something with real character arcs." (Because once you know how to ask for the *perfect* thing, why ask for anything else? That would be nonsensical!) Your desire to use art to escape the faults of humanity doesn't ennoble or inspire; it is just solipsistic and misanthropic. I'm sorry, but there really isn't a non-condescending way to put this -- I don't think you're emotionally mature enough for Dungeon Meshi, the comedy adventure manga centered around a guy who wants to suck minotaur tiddies. I think maybe you'd be more at home with children's didactics or fascist propaganda, both of which are based around more overt lessons and changes and center around likeable characters who follow parabolically simplistic trajectories.
Rather than express the character's idiocyncratic beliefs as hypocricies as flaws, I see main characters flaws as natural extensions of their strengths, or visa verse. Laios isn't Monster Expert who is also Socially Inept, he IS Monster Expert because he has experienced deep social alienation since young age, channeling his frustration and desire to belong into obsessive pursuit of understanding the monstrous.
It's also because he's autistic. And that's not a bit, he and falin are GREAT examples of autistic coded characters that are treated with respect, not infantalized or dehumanized or treated as stupid (by the text at least. lookin at you shuro)
@@alastryona I'm not sure if the creator wrote them as autistic, but I'm glad people see themselves in these characters
whereas kabru hates monsters and fears he’s a monster (not literally aside from spoiler childhood anxiety), so he goes the other way and obsesses over human behavior, and also cuz of the trauma of utaya. laios hasn’t known the same grief or terror to the same extent and got a taste for the first time w falin. they’re perfect foils.
The thing with Laios warning Senshi about the kelpie is that (I’m pretty sure) in the manga it’s shown that he himself fell victim to a kelpie in the exact same way Senshi did here, which is why he’s prepared to stop him. But Laios being laios didn’t really learn his lesson and never really does throughout the series. Rationally he knows not to anthropomorpolise monsters but he just loves them so much he can’t help himself
Quick note, both the pan and knife do need to be taken care of. The reason they’re in good condition and the axe is not is because he doesn’t care about weapons, but does care for cooking.
That's a fair point. Thank you
Yes, and it's totally played for humor, especially in the scene where they talk about using the knife as a weapon, and we see Senshi clutching it to his chest and frowning.
Also, he didn't know there were any special properties to these things until Namari told him. They were just great for cooking. Again, humor. 😊
It is ironic how Senshi decries magic but gushes over his amazing pan made out of magic metal.
Yes, exactly!
Senshi feels a lot like some people I interact with irl. They divide the world into "things I'm comfortable with" vs "things I'm not comfortable with", and instead of recognizing that, they draw up other ways to divide the two, no matter how much these other labels overlap
I think the difference is the metal is a thing that just happens to be related to magic. The problem Senshi seems to have is when magic is used for reasons he considers unnatural, like healing wounds faster and raising the dead for example
Sure but that metal is natural not necessarily made by magic like different metal element. To us it is magical to them is just a way better steel
So Laios needs to learn that he can't replace humans with monsters, for more comfortable he feels around them.
Marcille has to learn to stop doubting people that have proven their intenitions and competency to her
Chilchuck has to learn to appreciate the skills of others like he wants them to appreciate his'
And Senshi has to learn to respect the paths people take in life, and understand the importance of becoming an expert on a field, even if it means never picking up other skills.
The common line being on the importance of having a community and relying on one-another to become stronger together.
"I don't like magics, but those golems are useful.
And all I do is just digging a hole and farming. They're practical,"
The NON-PRACTICAL is up there, Senshi.
I think their own hypocrisy is what makes these characters interesting in the first place. Especially when even characters themselves call it out (as an example, Senshi called out Laios about Kensuke and kelpy situation when the party learned about it).
Because when it comes to some other titles where some controversial opinions or straight up hypocrisy will be later on cherished as the ultimate truth and peak of morality (*COUGH COUGH* Naruto... *COUGH*) this makes the show more entertaining, building more inner (and outer) conflicts on the background that are based of those hypocrisies and not just beliefs. People are made of contradictions, and that's what makes us alive.
Anyway, this was a nice analysis. Keep up a good work.
I feel like most if not all of the characters in Dungeon Meshi are a bit hypocritical. To me it's something that makes them human, and I love to go back to observe their behavior and understand it better.
They're all different, so it's easy to think such and such character makes weird choices because you don't relate, but once you learn more it starts to make so much sense.
For me that character was Kabru, I found his chapters boring and I didn't understand him at all, but now I actually appreciate him and his contradictions, as well as his place in the story.
Kabru is actually so fucking goated it’s crazy
the prejudice makes them feel more like actual real flawed individuals
Those are some very cool takes. I just finished reading the manga and can now recognize various other similar situations.
Thank you
Dad bod?! Laois is capital B Built! He is built like a wrestler!
He's built, but the side stories show that his body fat is actually pretty high, which makes sense considering aesthetics don't matter as much for an adventurer.
@@imshailexactly! He’s built more like someone who has to USE his body than someone worried about aesthetics
@@Redheadedhypocrite iirc, in lore Laios does mention having to bulk to prepare for his delves before the whole monster eating strat, so him eating 3 square meals of monster probably has him leaner than usual, at least leaner than the first halves of his previous delves.
I think that you don’t know the definition of hypocrisy.
Laois knows that he shouldn’t trust monsters-Laois still inadvertently trusts monsters.
This is weakness, not hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy requires that he insist that he has no such weakness, or that he spins it as a virtue when he does it, and a moral failing when others do it.
Laois is fairly nonjudgmental in reminding everyone that they shouldn’t trust monsters, he is just unable to refrain, and he apologizes for his lapses.
Senshi insists on avoiding the “unnatural” and the “easy way out”, but he lives in an eldritch location, cultivating and harnessing it to his own ends.
This is not hypocrisy, because Senshi thinks this is the most natural place in the world, and the most natural thing to be doing in it.
We see it as “magical” and “unnatural”, and as the creation of a lunatic magician, but to Senshi it’s just the natural order of things.
He sees Marcille’s relatively mundane water-walking spell as a deviation from the laws of nature, because he doesn’t know what is nature, what is science, and what is magical.
He thinks that his “normal” is natural, and that “abnormal” is unnatural.
And who knows?
Our own reality could be a soap bubble protecting us from Lovecraftian horrors, and our own “science” and “normal” could be an unnatural location within the rest of the cosmos.
We don’t know, and just like Senshi, we would rather declare familiar things “normal” even if we don’t fully understand them, than think too hard about what might lie beneath.
Marcille doesn’t want to eat new food, but she does perform ancient magic.
She sees no connection.
"You don't know the definition of hypocrisy"
*proceeds to give an example of the textbook definition of hypocrisy in the very next line of the comment*
"the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform"
Literally copy and pasted from Miriam-Webster.
This describes every member of the party, to the varying extents I described in the video.
@@ElliotGeltz Not quite.
Genuinely trying to meet your own moral standards and failing is sad, but is not hypocrisy.
Do you believe that every person at Alcoholics Anonymous is a hypocrite when their resolve breaks down?
But all of that is somewhat irrelevant to the matter at hand.
“Ew that looks nasty, I’m not eating it!” Isn’t actually a moral standard or belief.
“I really need to stop falling for every monstrous deception I see, or we will die.” Is also not a moral standard or belief.
“Don’t trust monsters. I do, then they try to kill us.” Is advice with an observation tacked on.
“Let’s not hurt the ghosts and zombies if we can avoid it, because we would not want to be hurt if we were them.” Is a moral standard and/or belief.
“Don’t use Ancient Magic, I heard it’s evil!” Is a moral stance by proxy, as the team don’t actually know how the thing they oppose is harmful.
@@cassandrabelyeu2419 Honestly, I just don't think we're gonna see eye to eye on this. I think you raise valid points, but I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree brother.
@@ElliotGeltz Morality: noun
1. principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
"the matter boiled down to simple morality: innocent prisoners ought to be freed"
2. A particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society.
plural noun: moralities
"a bourgeois morality"
3. The extent to which an action is right or wrong.
"behind all the arguments lies the issue of the morality of the possession of nuclear weapons"
Knowing what you're doing does not match up with your personal beliefs gives you an opportunity to either change beliefs or shift actions to better align with one another in your head. If you cannot do that, you're a hypocrite.
I believe that every member of the party struggles with some level of cognitive dissonance and it can manifest as hypocrisy.
Laios is initially a hypocrite because he hides Kensuke's existence. Even after being outed for this hypocrisy, he keeps the sword and explains away his lapse in principles with the defense that the benefits outweigh the risks. This is hypocritical behavior, even if he feels bad about it. He hasn't changed his behavior and he hasn't changed his belief about all monsters being dangerous.
I don't have easy examples at the moment for the other party members, but you get the idea.
I found the character writing and design to be actually BETTER than in Frieren, and that anime is hailed as a masterpiece already. they feel like real people because perfect consistency is unnatural.
Yeah, same. I don't have anything negative to say about Frieren, but like...
I don't like it enough to make videos about it, and I think I'll leave it at that, lol
i'm not sure where you're getting this idea that senshi's wok and knife don't need to be taken care of. he explicitly talks about how hard he works maintaining them at various points in the story
That's a verry good dive into the writing of Ryoko Kui.
It shows how all those characters are alike in the fact that they all have self indulgence and blind spots they are happy to ignore. They are know the ins and outs of their field, so they feel like they can mess with it. But it only means they can fall in bigger traps in their own right.
I think that's a verry clever way of writing a team of specialists, and a team of friends. With similar flaws, all telling different things and expressing themselves in different ways.
I'll keep it :)
Wow I'm just realizing this
Good analysis, I'd noticed some of these examples myself but hadn't thought too deep on them or how they reflect on each character. I think Laios is definitely one of the most interesting characters to analyze with his hypocrisy towards monsters, especially given the manga's final battle and ending, but ultimately I like how these traits help them feel like real, nuanced people who react to the dungeon's environment in different ways :-)
Samesies. I'm planning on covering each of the characters in their own dedicated videos as the most prominent moments of their arcs get animated, meaning Laios will most likely be last.
I like that you didn´t take the characters hypocrisy as something bad but as an important characteristics that makes the characters more human, good video.
7:38 Minor Correction - Senshi wasn't given the Adamant Wok/Pot as a family heirloom gift.
He was given a Adamant Shield as the family heirloom gift.
But he repurposed it as a Wok/Pot instead, as he though it was a waste as a Shield, which i think is much worse.
the thing is "dark magic" is not dark at all
it's ancient magic that elf wants to hoard so they label it dark.
I consider it the best anime in 2024
Same
THIS ANALYSIS RULES
Yeah that's a very good analysis ! I feel like these flaws are so well written because they make the characters feels very realistic. probably the most realistic i ever saw in any series, manga or anime ! People irl are all inconsistent and hypocrites in one way or another and the fact the mangaka recognizes that is soooo good.
The way the characters are written gives them so much room to grow
I feel like Chilchuck would stay in his lane [AKA, when he usually avoids fights], but he has to step in sometimes because the main party are a bunch of idiots so he doesn't really have much of a choice.
FANTASTIC video sir, you have earned my subscription and I can’t wait to see more from you 😁
Thank you
.....damn...now i think i love this show even more....and i also think im going to subscribe to you.
Thank you
I would love a similar study of the other parties as well!
Oh, they're comin'. I'm just waiting on the anime to give me more footage to work with
Great points. Thanks for the vid.
This is not hypocrisy, it's growing up.
Without going into spoilers much, why is it taboo to use dark magic for resurrection?
I mean, it's not too different from a simple resurrection spell(which is totally accepted by society). It just takes a few extra steps. I understand the ramifications of Fallien being resurrected using the dragon meat, but why, generally, is it taboo?
The answer to that question is a very big spoiler, lol
@ElliotGeltz ... It's really bad, isn't it?
@@elitegamer9310 I can't really describe it without a great deal of spoilers. Like, in any way, lol
The emotional satisfaction of the reveal is very much worth the read, that's all I'll say
I would argue that magic is a skill.
Cool video
I think Marcille would too.
Honestly that's something I should've brought up: that magic clearly takes years of study to become proficient with.
HOLY FUCK I LOVE THIS THANK YOU
Like your takes are actually really good
I love this comment, thank you
Meh, all I know is Marcille is genuinely so cute.
Fuck yeah she is
Spoilers for the manga****
The point about senshi upholding the ecology of the dungeon is really interesting considering that if the dungeon were to function as usual, the small monsters Would be overhunted by people and monsters leading larger monsters to head to upper levels and eventually the over world.....
Your work's great.
But your volume control is B-Grade. Since you aren't airing video, but rather audio with a visual overlay from the reviewed media, I suggest some homework on proper audio decibels as well as audio "cleaning" - we can hear every cut and edit in this clip.
Thank you. Obviously I'm still learning the basics, and I appreciate the feedback. Things will improve with time.
You better step lightly insulting these characters Mr. You're on thin ground. On shaky ice. This has been one of my favourite mangas for 10 years so I'ma fight you if you don't watch your teeth...
Lol, I'll step lightly.
I mean what I said throughout the video. I do genuinely love this series and its characters. I don't point out these things to disparage them. I think it's great that the author applied genuine, real faults to these characters, and I love the arcs they go through as they grow past these facets of their personalities.
I mean I love my squad as well, but hypocrisy is easily the most noticable flaw of these characters, especially Laios. The mangaka went out of her way to make it evident that he doesn't abide the rules he set up, he tells senshi monsters can't be trusted and then he makes that very mistake time and time again (Kensuke, Falin, Succubus, the Lion). He even realizes it and apologizes for it himself. These characters are written to be human and and analysing what makes them human is not insulting.
Even Itsuzumi isn't an exception, she's all about doing things she likes without a care for others, yet at the last arc she constantly criticizes others for not knowing enough about Marcille.
@@billlee3851 Making mistakes is not being a hypocrite.
Being a hypocrite would be if the character insisted that they did not have this failing, or that it was a virtue when they did it.
@cassandrabelyeu2419 I'd say what you described is being delusional.
Hypocrisy is mostly known as telling someone else to do something or abide by a set of rules despite not doing so yourself.
It's like an alcoholic telling someone to drink responsibly.
@@simplyeyeronic1443 Struggling with alcoholism while being painfully aware of the downsides and warning others about it is neither delusion nor hypocrisy.
Presenting yourself as someone who is above struggling with alcohol, while doing all of the above, falls into hypocrisy and possibly delusion.
You know I had the exact same opinions on a these characters and many others that we meet later in the manga. But honestly this aspect of the series made it a really frustrating read to me personally. I found often that the characters were horribly inconsiderate to each other, made nonsensical decisions, and were just generally awful to follow. I also feel that by the end very little was learned by anyone and none of them really rectified these aspects of themselves or even faced consequences for the actions taken as a result of them. A mildly enjoyable story at times, and the ending was better than I was expecting, but honestly a 3/10 wouldn't recommend it.
That's life, dungeon meshi might have some overarching moral lesson but it never felt like such to me
Life just happens and continues along even against minor or major upheaval, I love the story for it
TH-cam is being dumb again, I got your reply but it's incomplete and it's not loading now
@@fabianlaibin6956 no that's on me I deleted it just cuz I've been trying to get into less arguments about things like this online if someone else didn't explicitly disagree with any take I made. But I was basically just saying that I think the distinction between fiction and reality is precisely that in real life things don't have to be satisfying or conclusive and people don't have to evolve or change but that fiction precisely as a strength should give us charactes with real character arcs.
I can sympathize with this take.
But I also look at how the party leaves Khabru's group with most of their supplies and enough money to pay for their resurrections. I look at how even though Laios doesn't get why Marcille and Chilichuck would object to eating certain monsters and not others, he respects his friends' boundaries and doesn't push it. I look at how Shuro is horrified at Marcille's dark magic, but has empathy enough to put himself in her shoes and admit he'd probably do the same to save Falin, and even gives Laios' group a magic item to escape the authorities. I look at how Senshi cares so *deeply* about his responsibilites as the oldest and most experienced in the group, and does everything in his power to provide for them.
There's just so much humanity and sincerity and *heart* in this story. I just can't help but love it.
Not only is this comment wrong, but it made me very sad.
First, let's go over the wrong:
"very little was learned by anyone and none of them really rectified these aspects of themselves"
Laios - Realizes he has trauma regarding other humans, that his fascination in the monstrous is rooted in his disgust of the normal. Once he is aware of this bias he is able confront it and self-actualize. He also learns about responsibility -- recall, he ran from his sister when he through she was being disparaged for having magic inclinations, even when she was fine with most of the treatment. He dropped out of school and then deserted from the army. By the end of the story, he takes up the responsibility of being king (something he doesn't really want to do or feel suited for) not just because of responsibility, but because he now understands how to rely on people more to shore up his weak points.
Marcille - Marcille begins the story haunted by her uniqueness, but also driven by it. She thinks of herself as above others, and in many aspects she is, but it means she puts a lot of weight into her biases, and when her focus and drive overwhelms her she ignores good sense. By the end of the story, she has learned humility. She willingly turns herself over to the canaries, no longer considering herself above the law and it's Laios that has to dig her out of that prison sentence. Instead of trying to thwart the inevitable, she concludes that she will have to learn to live with it.
Chilchuck - Chilchuck doesn't change because God made him perfect.
Senshi - Senshi also confronts and overturns his own biases: "magic does require work and isn't cheating, it's just a different kind of work" and "adventurers aren't leeches to the dungeon, but a part of its ecosystem" are some of the two most pronounced mini-arcs he has.
the world - a whole new kingdom arises, one which attempts to understand and accept monsters, and those who are considered monster adjacent. The last conversation in the series is Laios talking to an orc and kobold child, demi-human races that were considered 'sub-human' by most but are treated equally here. Further, the disappearance of demons can be seen as a metaphorical shift in how the everyone will have to deal with their desires -- They can no longer chase desire directly by shutting themselves off in dungeons, they have to live and settle for doing what they can every day.
Izutsumi has an entire chapter devoted to polishing off her arc and there are like 2 different videos on this website about it, I'm not going to go over it here.
But the real reason I had to respond (I don't really like commenting, ever) is because you make me sad, man. One of the major themes of the book is people from different backgrounds will have fundamental differences, but that if time and effort is spent they can come to understand and appreciate each other. "[they] act horribly inconsiderate [and make] nonsensical decisions" is exactly the sort of things that people who don't take the time to understand say when confronted with people who have different customs, and would rather otherize them than understand them.
Your second comment about 'the strength of fiction' being that it can give us exactly what we want (satisfying arcs) is directly criticized by the text itself -- leading people along 'perfect little narratives' is what demons do! Imagine yourself, locked away from messy, conflicting, imperfect humanity in a deep oubliette, your demon salamander asking you what you want. Every day, you say the same thing: "Show me something satisfying and conclusive, something with real character arcs." (Because once you know how to ask for the *perfect* thing, why ask for anything else? That would be nonsensical!) Your desire to use art to escape the faults of humanity doesn't ennoble or inspire; it is just solipsistic and misanthropic.
I'm sorry, but there really isn't a non-condescending way to put this -- I don't think you're emotionally mature enough for Dungeon Meshi, the comedy adventure manga centered around a guy who wants to suck minotaur tiddies. I think maybe you'd be more at home with children's didactics or fascist propaganda, both of which are based around more overt lessons and changes and center around likeable characters who follow parabolically simplistic trajectories.