HOW TO KNURL ON THE LATHE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024
- This is part 2 of a demonstration on how to make consistently beautiful & perfect knurls on steel & alum. In this video I show the frailties of bump type knurlers as compared to the the foolproof pinch type knurlers used on screw machines.
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#knurling#knurlrollers#brown&sharpeknurlers#clausinglathe#atlaslathe#machineshop#tubalcain
Did anyone else wanted to see the setup of the knurler besides me?
Yes
Yes
I would have liked to see that too. Mr.Pete, can we talk you into doing a part 3 that covers setting up the B and S type knurling tools?
Me too :-)
Yes.
You should make a dvd or digital set off everything you’ve ever done so we don’t lose your knowledge!!! Pass on knowledge not lose it!! Thanks Mr Pete!! Love all your stuff always looking it over and over again!! Not many left like you!!! Thanks again!!!!
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I always give you a thumbs up Mr. Pete, even before I watch the whole video.
Thanks
Beautiful knurls Mr Pete by bagesh and bagash.Thank you.
Lyle,
Have you tried the bump knurler without using power feed, I think your results may be better.
And with due respect, I believe you were making square knurls with the angle set at 45°. The 30° setting would give you the diamond knurl.
Love the channel, please keep sharing.
Tony.
"Not as much Mayhem." So, did Mr. Mayhem lose a digit or a limb? I had an unflattering nickname was a little kid. "Tornado" was part of that name. And it didn't matter if I had one arm tied behind my back, it was just my nature.
I have a scissors type knurler and a few bump types. I may try and make my own BS or WS style. They don't look all that difficult to make. So, they are probably way more complex than I can handle, and will result in another "growing" experience. Growing piles of swarf, broken tooling and scrapped parts!!!! Thanks for the excellent instruction Dr. Pete!
I have a 00 B & S knurler if you like to borrow it sometime and try out.😁
@@4GSR Good morning Sunshine!! That sounds like a plan! thanks!
Thank you for showing Mr. Pete great video on knurling I like the screw machine knurling I use them on the Cnc lathe with many gallons of cooling turned out fantastic have fun .
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Mr. Pete every video of yours gets a 👍from me! It's always good to learn what is correct, what is not, why one is correct and how to get the correct result every time.
A lesson I need to see (you may have covered but I've not found...yet) is fitting a solid, no pre drilled holes, backplate to a chuck.
If you've done it and know the episode number I'll definitely watch it.
Thanks Mr. Pete
Thank you for watching, I don’t think I have done a video on the backing plate
knurling is an art for itself, well done Pete, thanks for sharing
Mr Pete, I commented yesterday that I own a scissor type knurler and I get pretty good diamonds etc... I didn't give it much thought but, the scissors style cutters are positioned much like the B&S tools in that they are not pushing from the sides( like the bump style) but are on the top and bottom. On the scissors type there is quite a bit of effort in moving the tool down the workpiece and , for me powerfeed is almost a must in getting good, consistent diamonds.
Brings back many memories. My students were always amazed when they saw knurling for the first time.
Next time I visit Starrett, I’m going to pay attention to their production knurling practice. Seems to be the gold standard. 👍
Nice demo Lyle. I use the B& S type knurllers all the time, mostly on my turret lathe, they work awesome. I like using the chamfered edge knurllers, they start easier. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Randy. I just watched your video on installing the knee power feed. It’s never very simple. Is it, L O L but you’re doing a great job.
@@mrpete222 All up and running great. Thank you for stopping in.
Very nicely done. Always a pleasure to watch and learn from you.
Another!! very interesting video!!
God bless you Mr. Pete. I have watched every one of your videos since day one and they are so calming and educational.
All the best.
Mike
Thank you very much
I sure have learned a lot here over the years! Thank you.
Glad to hear it!
I liked seeing you take control in year 2😂
I learned the basics of machining in high school machine shop, but I got a real education from an old Swedish modelmaker at a company I worked for right out of high school. I've watched many of your videos. You're such a great teacher, and you really remind me of that Swedish modelmaker--- He taught me very much the same way as your videos. Thanks, Mr.Pete, for keeping this knowledge alive--- Manual Machining is all but gone, and very few have the knowledge and talent to do it.
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I too would like to see the setup for the B&S style knurler.
Thanks Mr. Pete for the knurling lesson. I was told not to have the knurl diamond come to a point, to always have a flat on the tip, otherwise it will bite into your hand.
True
Thank you for your exceptional content Sir. I am a fan of your videos for several years.
I appreciate that!
Hi Mr Pete i might be late but with my boring bar holder has a 1'' hole and a 3/4 '' to 1 '' sleave that came with it its a import .Good subject thanks again .JM
That "B&S" knurler is great adapted to the lathe. I have several videos of adapting screw machine/ turret lathe tooling to my Logan 10" lathe. Great video as alway Mr. Pete!👍
Thanks, I will look them up
I've done quite a bit of knurling through the years have also done face drilling on a milling machine where I put my knurling tools into a holder into a collet and then just pass the work underneath the knurls on the flat surface.
mr pete, does not matter if you repeat a subject that you already covered years ago, i always love and enjoy your content, how about fitting a digital read out scales ect to a south bend lathe, a 9inch would be great, all the best from down under
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Great presentation Mr Pete. We know the good stuff is heard to find & expensive - worth the price if you can find the tooling !! John
Good morning Mr Pete, never fail to enjoy learning a little something with you sir, please keep up the good work, best wishes from merry ol England
Excellent follow up video for part one , thanks for taking the time to do this MrPete 👍👍👍👍
With the bump aloris on 303 I found you have to support with tailstock live center and use pretty heavy pressure.
Ya dun good again kid! You are kinda like the Mr. Rogers, of machining Mr. Pete. Everyone needs a "good neighbor" like you.
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Fantastic! I fully understand the dynamics of knurling with this type knurling tool. The knurling wheels “swipe” across the surface instead of being mashed straight in.
Thank you Mr Pete. As always, I enjoyed it and I learned from you. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
I paused the video and really looked close at that picture and it was hilarious!!! It reminds me of my daily work flow aka bad luck lol
I’m still wondering about the stock diameter vs. the knurler tooth pitch/diameter…if not matched couldn’t the teeth in knurler be off a half a tooth on the stock and wipe out the just-formed teeth in the stock? Your part 1 video said not to worry about the stock diameter/knurler diameter but I am a worrier. Maybe the stock compensates by deforming in a way that matches the knurler?
I've always been confused about this, I'm assuming it must slip and fall in.
@@anthonymorency1107 I am glad to hear I’m not the only one that is confused!
The finished knurl is a repeating pattern with a fixed length. If the circumference isn't an integer multiple of the pattern length then there must be one point in the circumference where there is an error in the pattern as the wheels re-align. I guess a bad knurl is where this re-alignment doesn't occur quickly, or fails to occur at all. I need to have a really close look at any examples I can find to see if I can pick the point where it re-aligns. The only other thing I can think is that the rotation of the wheels causes the pattern to rotate with respect to the axis of the shaft, altering the pattern length, so that the re-alignment occurs automatically. But the math in working that out is way beyond me.
Good Morning Mr Pete!!!
The Tennessee Mole Man 👍🇺🇸🍊🍊🍊
I bought one of the Brown and Sharpe knurlers after watching an earlier video of yours. They do make really nice knurls once they are set up, and the only major drawback is you can't knurl in the middle of a workpiece. A scissor knurler would be ideal for that. I have a couple of tricks for getting mine set up. I use the tailstock to center the tool up/down. To get the knurling wheels set you will need some trial and error at first, but if you can record the measurements of a successful knurl you'll be able to use those for faster setup in the future. Start on the lighter side because if you go too deep it can put incredible stress on your cross slide. The Brown and Sharpe manual suggested moving the knurlers in until they contact the workpiece, then retract the tool and advance each knurling wheel 1/4 turn with the adjustment screw. This was way too much for me. I ended up closer to 1/8 of a turn, and that has been very repeatable. I use a small piece of very thin paper between the workpiece and knurling wheel, advancing the wheel just until I feel the paper bind. Repeat on the other wheel, retract the tool, and advance each side 1/8 turn. Another excellent method if you have some adjustable parallels is to measure the space between the knurling wheels and compare it to the diameter of your workpiece. Record this measurement once you get a successful knurl. In the future you can just measure the piece you want to knurl, subtract toe recorded amount, and set your parallel to that measurement. Now use the parallel to set your wheels the correct distance apart. Watch both wheels as you advance the tool onto the workpiece and move your cross slide until both wheels make even contact.
That is almost the exact way that I made my set up, including using the tailstock center. Yes, the disadvantages you cannot make a very long neural, especially in larger diameters.
Well well - now I know why my push type was never satisfying. I had already concluded the pinch type knurl tool was the way to go, but having your demonstration and opinion certainly solidifies that. Thanks for your continuing education.
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39 year machinist and I am so glad im not the only one disgusted with the results of the Aloris style knurling tool. Its rare for me to knurl something but I want it to look nice when I do. Thanks Mr. Pete.
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Thanks for the contribution🤗😎🤗😎
yet another great one..
Thank You Mr. Pete! A very useful video!
If a longer handle was to be knurled would it be a better outcome with the first style tool if it was turned with the tail stock center. Then set the speed very slow and the feed rate to advance half of the roller width per spindle revolution about.125 or 8 threads per inch? Thanks Mr. Pete for another great video!
Thank you for the video series on knurling. I haven't done much knurling over the years. The few times I've cut knurls I've used a cut style knurling tool dad borrowed from work back in the 1960's. Sadly, it's so old I can't find any new knurls that will fit this old tool. Anyways, I've tried the Aloris one with zero luck with it. It now is used with a chamfering tool only. Did buy a elcheapo scissor type knurling tool and amazingly it cuts some very nice knurls! Ken
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Thank You Lyle... ( i am thinking to myself "how does Lyle Peterson get soooo much energy") You are so very active with so much wonderful information... I LOVE & LEARN ALL YOU DO..... TM
Actually, I don’t have much energy and I am getting pretty lazy
Mr Pete it would be neat to get booth of those carton drawings with your autograph maybe in pdf format . JM
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Mr. Pete, that's a knarley knurling video!😂
Great video as always Mr Pete, i make 1000s of perfect knurls at work on cnc machines using a bump style single wheel knurl tool. I have seen charts about pitch and diameter requirements but its not necessary. Try cutting straight to depth at a feed close to the pitch of the knurl at slow spindle speeds (200rpm). I find the trick to plunging is to do it quickly so the form is nice and deep by the time it comes around the teeth have a greater chance of falling into the correct path, although i'm not sure how well this would translate to a manual machining
Thank you for that information
excellent video.. i think making one of those knurling tools would be a great project..
Mr. Pete I’ve watched most of your videos so far always informative even in your rants & rumblings something to learn keep them up ,what I didn’t hear you say when using bump or scissor type knurlier was to never disengage from the work till you were happy with your knurl this is what I see most other creators on TH-cam do wrong
You are right, I failed to say that
Every video I watch of yours is a definite thumbs up. Not cheap even used but I purchased one based on the information in video 1. Hope this isn't a really ignorant question. Because the posts holding the dies rotate, could you turn the tool post 90° to the chuck face and run the material through from the side and hence not limit the length? Not that I can think why one longer than 2" might be needed LOL.
Mr Pete, you make knurling look enjoyable, as well it should, thank you for an excellent demonstration 🇬🇧
Back in high school, 1980 (ish) I turned a small hammer. Knurled the handle about 4 inches. No clear memory what that tooling was. Still have that hanging in my shop today!
You made me feel pretty good, Mr Pete! I'm a new, self-taught user of machine tools, and I've gotten some pretty good results with the Aloris style bump knurler I got from Shars. I've only used it on aluminum and brass, and made some crummy ones, but I think at least 60% of my attempts look pretty good. Maybe 30%, in my opinion, look quite good. I did not use power feed, and I think my biggest blunder was not using enough fluid. I'm sure a lot of it was just luck, but I think another helpful thing, for me at least, was really careful setup. Those of mine that looked the worst were, I think, caused by one of the rollers putting more pressure on the work piece than the other. It seems like getting really close matching of the pressure is a bit of a crap shoot. Even when they seemed to be the same, I think they often weren't.
I just got a scissor type knurler in the mail, and look forward to giving that one a try. Thanks for the excellent teaching!
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Great video. At 18:07 your knurl is pretty good but notice how the diamonds don't form a straight line? This is where the material diameter vs diametral pitch comes in. If you adjust the material diameter slightly you'll see those diamonds line up perfectly. Sometimes you can get away with adjusting the depth of the knurl to fix this issue.
Yes
Nice! Gotta find me some driveshaft yokes and make me a few of those! 😁
Yes, I would like to find a yolk from a smaller vehicle and try to make one
A scissors type knurling tool is not limited with making a longer knurl. I agree with you, usually knurls are not much over an inch and the Aloris style should pose no issue, unless for some reason the knurl was located in the middle of a long shaft. I cannot think of an example, just thinking out loud. Thanks for all the information given here.
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Last video I was convinced that I would pick up the knurlmaster hand knurler. Found one on feebay with only straight wheels but new would cost all my molars. Non-knurled thumb screws it is. Thanks for the video
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many thanks Lyle.
I have one of these b&s style knurling tools. I never use it because I don't know how to set it up. I wish you would have shown how to set the tool up like you said you were going to earlier in the video.
The Duke of Knurl!
Good one. I should rename the video
Thank you for the video. I found it very interesting despite the fact that from now on I'll look at all my existing bad knurls with disappointment. I wish you had a scissor knurler in the video. I wonder if getting good results with them is fairly easy or hard. These days one often sees those Chinese made scissor knurlers that look like two pieces of 4in long, half inch square bar stock with rollers attached on the end, mounted in a V configuration, having a single thin screw for setting the spacing. I often wondered if these are a waste of time or not? They don't look very rigid at all. If they're useless I can see myself making one similar to those screw machine types shown.
I have seen those Chinese scissors knurlers in catalogs. I have never used one and I really do not know about the air quality.
Happy SNOWY WINDY cruddy weather filled Sunday Morning, I hope you remembered the Sabbath etc.!
I find using reverse on the lead screws cross threads the knurls due to the backlash issues.
It is a nasty day in Illinois. Actually, the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday.
Mr. Pete, would be cool to do a follow up showing knurling different diameters with the same tool. Proving that you don’t need to calculate the diameters/ratio or do any of that nonsense. Or maybe DO the calculation and deliberately cut a knurl with the “wrong” diameter stock and show that it still comes out perfect. Also maybe do the calculation and show that the bump knurlers are horrible even when you do the math.
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I have gotten good Knurls with the Aloris rigid knurl thingy, but it's a crap shoot for sure. I don't have any other type of knurling tool right now. I do use the wheel style that starts out on the edge as opposed to the tapered side style which helps I find. The turret or screw machine style really is the best. I bet I could make one in my spare time....someday!
Yes, make one I’m thinking about doing it myself
Thanks Mr Pete, always interesting, informative and funny. Though I still gotta believe that the stock's circumference and the wheel's pitch have got to be evenly dividable, else it overlaps somewhat, deforms each and is less then perfect, though it looks pretty good to the eye.
I feel like there should be a thread rolling tool next, if you happen to have one. Another awesome video. Thanks for posting :)
Thanks Mr Pete.
Good knurling video. Could you cover the difference between these form knurls and cut knurls?
I always wondered how a knurler doesn't just mash the diamond points of the previously formed points, how does it "self synchronize" to prevent this? Nothing seems to be timed or set like you do with gear teeth....? Thanks Mr.Pete!
What's the purpose of the two screws behind the rolls
At 19:22 you said that hot rolled steel would be an issue. Could someone explain why? As frame of reference, Im assuming hot rolled means A36 from a box store. Thanks for your help!
Thanks a lot I’ve used the bump type and you are correct it’s terrible. I also have the scissor type( looks like a pair of pliers) with much better results, as usual your correct about them being better a little harder feeding it while squeezing the handles together but much better results. GOD BLESS YOU ❤
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What was the feed rate and the RPM when you did the steel? Very fine video.
I believe the starting circumference of the stock is critical to easily produce a proper knurl. It is a function of the knurl wheel pitch and the circumference. Divide the circumference with the knurl pitch, and the closer the result is to a whole number, the better the results.
Agree!
Straight knurls is nothing but a small gear interacting with a larger gear. For this to run smoothly, there is a relationship between the two. Now, when knurling, the metal is massaged. The result is that the workpiece is forced into correct diameter. You will find this in the diameter of the resulting knurled part of the workpiece. In practical work you do not care about the diameter of the knurling, but if you do, you must start with a workpiece of correct diameter and the knurling must go to a specific depth.
No mathematics are necessary If the knurls are set deep enough with a good flow of oil they will self-track on any diameter after a few rotations. I’ve made thousands of perfectly formed diamond knurls on 3/4, 1.00, 1.25, 1.50, and 1.75 diameter 6061 T6 aluminum without calculating exact diameters. The free rotating knurls actually slip slightly into previous grooves once a tracking pattern is established.
@@ellieprice363, I only said "the closer the result is to a whole number, the better the results". Of course brute force will also solve the problem, if you a have scissor-type knurler - or the type Mr. Pete demonstrated.
@@ellieprice363 Yes, brute force may do the math. That is, you press the knurler exactly so deep that the knurled part is perfect. In witch case the pitch of the knurler coinside with the correct diameter, but you have no control with he diameter of the finished knurled section.
@@ellieprice363 Please take a look here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling
They indicate that the workpiece should have a sertain diameter for best result with a given knurler.
I wonder.....if a person could get a live center to provide support, if that would work.... might be to close quarters .... just a thought. Thanks Mr. Pete, I really like seeing different tooling and methods. Very appreciated
A good demonstration Lyle. Now all I have to do is find an old B&S.
Excellent video! Would also enjoy a video using the scissor type knurler. Hopefully someone will donate one for you to make a video using that type.
I don’t have a knurled, but I have to get one. Thanks Mr Pete
Thanks Mr Pete - I'm making some parts with about a 5" long knurl (alum) and using a scissors knurler for the length. Seems to work ok - I notice some flex but overall am happy with the results - thanks as always
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I have a bump knurler, and I hate it! I've never acheived a decent knurl, I'm getting the scissor knurling tool shortly, and feel sure I'll get good results, but those Brown & Sharp ones you just showed would be preferable, but hard to get here in the UK. great video Mr Pete, thanks!
Yeah, I have scissor knurler and it works quite well. The scissor knurler is better for your machine as there isn't near the pressure on the cross feed screw. You carefully position the rolls so that they are dead center with the part, you can do it by feel. Then, turn the machine on and tighten the knurler, put it in feed.
Hope this helps.
Thank you! I would like to see the results of using a clamp-type knurling tool that is sold on both eBay and Amazon and compare the results to your Brown & Sharpe knurling tools.
Mr. Pete, for those of us who are stuck with the 'bump' style knurling tool, would it improve the situation to use a follow rest to introduce a countervailing force when knurling?
The following rest might marr the knurl
Mr Pete, unfortunately you neglected to show us how to set up the knurling wheels. It would be so interesting to see this. Could you do a quick part 2a please. Watch all your videos and have learnt so much. Cheers Nobby
Could you show changing the dies on the tool?
THX,
Don B.
You might remember that I have a South Bend FOURTEEN. It’s not a heavy lathe. It’s a tool room lathe. But it has a 3 horse motor and robust Timken roller bearings. Still, I won’t use a push knurler. Really, anything smaller than a 14” heavy lathe, at the least, isn’t suitable for push knurling. It’s very hard on the bearings. Getting push knurlers to give a good knurl requires a lot of testing to get the two knurls evenly aligned with the center of the work. Usually, one knurler is a few thousandths higher and the other lower than they should be, so no diamond shape. Whichever knurler has higher pressure against the work will dominate the shape of the knurl. I really prefer scissor knurlers. It’s easier to set up and gives good knurls. I’ve never used a turret knurler.
Totally agree with you. It takes a powerful lathe. That’s why hardly anyone is successful with knurling
Good morning Mr Pete!
Good job thanks for sharing
In my work we've been using a straight knurl to create a interference fit on the end of silver steel pins
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Isn't there a type that cuts rather than presses the metal?
Mr. Pete, the bump knurler catalog pages from video 859 were very clear that tailstock support was necessary. Even though you had a short stick-out, since you observed material deflection (and bad knurls!), it really seems like a fair test requires using a live center. Any reason you didn't?
a lot of showing how to knurl with a knurler that is not available, great video, dorian has a bunch of knurlers, very expensive but obtainable ,would have liked to see some knurling done on those
I have used the bump knurlers and made a scissors type. The bump ones didn't have the same depth and sharpness to the knurl. The scissors one I made worked very well and was so much easier on my lathe.
Yes
i have used my brown & sharpe kurling tool many times on my Hardinge DSM 59 turret lathe, to get the best results, you need to flood the part with oil or coolant to wash the chips off of the knurling wheels.
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have you done a video on how you set up this straddle knurler?
If you mess up the OD on something that is press fit you can straight knurl it to make it tight fit.
Can you turn those 90 degrees to the axis of the material and run them for any length of material you wish? You wouldn't be limited by the depth in the bore of them that way.
Mr Pete you said you would show us how you setup the knurl to the diameter of stock What happened.?
RE: ALORIS Knurling attachment lack of Quality and less than fine cut, I believe that if you examine the beginning frames of the cut, show quite clearly that the TOP roller engages the work (starts to spin) before the BOTTOM does. This is evidence of the tool needing to be raised. I believe better Z axis will vastly improve it's cut, as well as employing tailstock or follow rest being needed as well. Also from what I could see, the cutters had leftover swarf or even damaged cutting edges. Knurling close to the jaws would help. I also saw the TOP cutter bobbing up and down while in use....couldn't see the bottom one. see video at abt. 6:59.
Love ALL your Videos!
One thing people should keep in mind is the fact that bump type put much more pressure on spindle bearings of the lathe. This pressure is much greater than the process of turning or cutting. The scissor type (which was not shown) do not apply this kind of pressure because the knurl wheels are opposed like the screw machine type, but unlike the screw machine type they have a greater range of capacity. With the advent of small table top machines with smaller and less sophisticated spindle bearing systems, I would opt for the scissor type if I were buying one. I only use this type in my shop and it was the only type my students used when I taught. The students had very good results with the scissor type.
On another note, the appearance and utility of any knurl is greatly enhanced by power wire brushing afterwards. Softer materials of course require softer pressure on the wheel.😮
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Ive looked for a knurler for a few years now, off and on. Ive never seen that type, only the cheap push type. Ive never made a good knurl before, I think Ill have to buy a kit from hemingway to get a decent one.