LATHE TOOL BITS - Shapes & Geometry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- A lesson on lathe tool bit angles & shapes.
GRINDING JIG FOR LATHE CUTTER BITS
TIPS #706 Part 1 -- Introduction & Machining the Master Block
• SOUTH BEND GRINDING JI...
TIPS #707 Part 2 -- Making the Sleeves (Bit Holders)
• SOUTH BEND GRINDING JI...
TIPS #708 Part 3 -- Engraving the Graduations on the Sleeves
• SOUTH BEND GRINDING JI...
TIPS #709 Part 4 -- HOW TO USE SB GRINDING JIG
• HOW TO USE SB GRINDING...
#howtorunalathe#sharpeningtoolbits#bitgrindingjig#howogrindlathebits#loganlathe#clausinglathe#atlaslathe - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
It's very old and nearly in tatters, but I have this little pocket notebook published by Armstrong that head 1:1 images where you could lay the tool over the outline for all four sides. Very simple, but a great little reference. It's been hanging on the nail next to my bench grinder since before I was born. Some of my earliest memories in the shop, my grandpa would set me to grinding lathe tooling using this little manual. It was a great point of pride if when showing my work, I earned a grunt of acceptance. I've never seen another copy of this little pocket guide, I suppose it would be fairly easy to reproduce one? Pretty tough to explain cutting geometry to young boys, but matching my steel blank to the outlines was somewhat doable. I'm sure I wasted a great deal, but I'm forever thankful for the ways he taught me the many things he did. I cannot remember a single occasion where he told me I did something wrong; instead it was always, "let's see how it works". Using a poorly ground lathe tool is a much better teacher then simple approval. When I wanted to learn how to weld, he just sent me at it. The rule was I had to saw through my welds afterwards to determine how good of a job I did. I don't think that man ever told me there is one correct way of doing things. The message was much more that every day is a learning opportunity. If you're not taking advantage of that, you are wasting time. I just learned that I've been using left hand and right hand lathe tools terminology incorrectly for over 40 years! Thanks for today's lesson
You are, indeed, my Utube shop teacher. You’re THE BEST! Thanks, again, for demystifying the geometry.
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In 1965 when I started as an apprentice we were first assigned to a fully equipped training section. When it came to learning how to sharpen lathe tool bits we were given a piece of 1/2" square stock and had to practice on that until we could show that we could do it properly. We did not get any HSS bits to actually use on the Lathe until we could show the instructor we knew what we were doing. This was in Northern Ireland the instructor said HSS bits were to expensive to waste on practice. Good old Scots Irish frugality.
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Last week I called Green Bay Manufacturing to order square-holed sleeves for my lathe tool grinding block. The woman who answered told me, "You're the second person who made the same order today." I replied, "Someone else must be watching Mr. Pete on TH-cam." The woman laughed and said, "We love Mr. Pete."
That’s a good one, thank you for telling me about that
That’s awesome
I recently received your Atlas Lathe course and just now finished watching Chapter 14 which seems to cover the same info as this video.
This brought back the memory of my first attempts to grind my own bits: I had found it baffling, trying to get the shapes and angles right. So rather than waste my HSS bits doing it wrong, I bought a 10-foot piece of 1/4" square steel and practiced on that. Since this common steel is so cheap, I could practice all I wanted till I had some inkling of what I was doing.
But funny thing: At the time, the only metal I wanted to machine was 6160 aluminum. Came the dawn -- it turns out that I could use low-carbon steel tools to cut 6160 aluminum just fine. Granted, I'd lose the edge relatively quickly, but, lo and behold, I could resharpen these tools with a file. So, not only is this a cheap way to get all the practice you need in grinding tool bits to the shapes desired, but you actually get a set of tools from the exercise that are useful for cutting 6160 aluminum.
And then you can transfer this training to grinding your more costly HSS bits for cutting steel.
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Glad you're "beating this to death"!
I'm watching this for the second time. There are nuggets of extreme interest throughout.
I use rocker/lantern and an indexible holder so very important to me.
I have almost no spatial ability and have always struggled to understand the geometry of tool grinding. It's one of the reasons why I like carbide inserts. I think, however, that with your help "flogging the subject to death" it is finally starting to sink in. I'll keep re-watching your videos until the penny finally drops.
Thanks for all of the great educational content that you post.
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Can’t tell you how I enjoy your channel. Thanks.
Great video Mr Pete! I started working in a large union production shop in 1968. We went to an apprentice class for 4 hours, 3 days a week. That lasted about 6 months. We had covered mostly safety and then drills. The company started getting snowed under with orders and suspended the classes. Too bad! Most of the people on the floor had completed these classes. So there was a definite knowledge line between us new hires and people with 3 or 4 years experience. The next year they took out the cafeteria and classrooms to put in more machines. I saw a bunch of the teaching aids piled up in a corner, things as you show... In 1973 I purchased a 1929 S. Bend lathe from an x shop teacher who got it from the school. Along with a 5 gallon can of tooling, I received the original paperwork and a copy of the SB how to run a lathe. They should have gave everyone one of these back when I started! It answered so many questions and illustrated in a simple manner. Instant knowledge! Lol! Sorry for the rambling! Just brought back many memories! Great recommendations for reading! Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️🇺🇸
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Still rambling! In later years, I think around 2006, I received a stack of copies of "the Starrett book for student machinists". I was mentoring at the time so I distributed these to people who seemed to really want to learn the trade. 17th edition, revised,1998. Cat. No. 1700.
Just like being back in high school machine trades class !!
Great Job !! 🤗
Glad you enjoyed it!
Master, thank you for the lesson👍👍👍👍
Searching for "how to grind lathe tool cutter bits" finds the publication on Vintage Machinery! Nice review.
Thanks for the heads up Mr Pete. There are new, 2013 Reprints available of the 1942 Edition of How to Run a Lathe on Ebay in the UK as well as used copies although the new ones are cheaper.
The Boxford Lathes Know Your Lathe Manual is available on CD ROM but ironically if you wanted a paper version in the UK you would have to buy it from a US seller and import it.
Thanks Mr. Pete! after 20+ years of "apprentice" machine work (we are forever learning) and having all my tools coming from a box of 100, I always come back to these videos to refresh myself on these tips because skills like this are worth keeping.. err.. sharp. Plenty of times over the years have i had to make myself an tool bit that you just couldn't order from a catalog and its saved me so much time. thank you for all you do!
Thank you for watching, I am so glad that you found the video helpful
A very good video Mr. Pete. I can see you spent a lot of time researching, preparing, shooting and editing it. Thank you for doing this. We appreciate all your hard work. Regards Aaron
Thanks
Thanks for the refresher. This is definitely something I need to practice.
Great lesson on tool bit grinding. Thanks for the video.
Also just bought a repro of the SB lathe bit grinding gauge. Thank you for showing that to us.
Valuable!!
Thanks Mr. Pete. As always, have a happy 😊 day.
Thank you Mr. Pete, it is always a pleaser to see you and hear what you say.
Mr. Pete,
My Dad was a turret lathe operator for GE from 1938-1958. He told me that once he passed the apprentice program, he used carbide tooling. I know GE owned Carbaloy for a number of years. When did industry start using carbide tools? Did inserts exist from the start or was it a 1960's invention?
Thanks for this video, it's 50+ years since my high school machine shop classes. The review was great.
Brazed carbide tooling was fairly common from ww2 on. I think the first carbide blanks for throw away change out were for milling cutters in the 50s.
Great video on the angles of the cutting tool, definitely a needed refresher on the subject.
You remind me of my shop teachers I had in the 70;s. Thank you
By beating that horse to death you're keeping it alive.
All the best,
-- Joe
Thanks
Thank you Lyle, Another great video
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👀
always great to wake up on a Saturday morning and have one of your videos greeting me....Best Wishes Lyle, your friend in Florida, Paul
Excellent teaching aids.
Great information, thank you! Love the caricature of you at the end, they did a good job.
Thanks
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks Mr. Pete lots of good info
Mr. Pete I appreciate all of the knowledge you are passing on to us... But I also love your sense of humor you have me laughing out loud quite a bit...
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I’ve learned so much from your videos, thank you for them. I’ve been timid about grinding HSS blanks but using your gauges & holders I need to step up to the plate. I’d like to get away from the expense involved with carbide.
Thank you from a complete novice: this information is hard to come by for a newbie/noob: its hard to even figure out where to start.
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Can never get enough tutorials on tool making. Thank you so much for sharing such valuable knowledge and keeping the signal strong. Sincerely, one of your many students.
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Hello Pete. Friend this is Keith from Michigan. Currently 65yrs old, have been in South Bend company. I've been around machinery and ran with the big ones. The machine cell had 37 stations for 3 primary operations. Did Cams, Crank and did honing. Specifically worked with metric. Last career was in aerospace with overhauling. I was the only person, could hand grind "A pile of crazy tool cutters, and they all virtually cut without chatter issues. Thanks for all your skills to help a hobby person. Have a great October..
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So very well prepared. What a teacher !
Thank you!
So many essential info in a short time! Can't "beat the subject to death" because this lesson was a refresment course of my 37 year ago engineering school. Thanks mr Pete.
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Thank you.
Thanks again Mr Pete you truly are a great teacher. greetings from Ireland
Thanks
Excellent information. Thank you sir.
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Enjoyed
Just a suggestion buy a Carbide set positive rake triangle INCERT and be done with it check it out .
This was incredibly helpful! Especially seeing the labeled tool bit models. Those were neat. I took your advice and grabbed 2 south bend lathe books off Amazon prime. I just finished restoring my first lathe, a 1926 South Bend model C 9”. I’m only 25 so this is all new stuff to me, but I love it. Thank you!
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Very informative video and the teaching aids help a lot.
Thanks
Thanks Mr Pete ! I like the Wood props ! If you dont do this all the time i forget ! (71) The wood props Help and can be a nice add to the shop wall art ! Straight Ahead !✌😎
Thanks Mr. Pete. I have watched this video more times than I have watched Forest Gump. Being a beginner, I would just like to share my thoughts. You have said somewhere that the Right Hand Turning tool is probably the most often used lathe tool. But the Right Hand tool makes me nervous because it is to be used in the direction from the tail stock to the chuck. I am afraid I will run it into the chuck, especially if I am using the auto feed. I would rather cut away from the chuck.
Mr Pete, I was trained on a mori seiki, but I picked up an old Sheldon a few years ago as well as all the books you recommended in the first 3 minutes. Something really stood out to me about these old manuals, they all instruct the operator to do facing operations from the center of the work out and to do turning operations from the check towards the tail stock. This seems like a simple but clever technique to avoid crashing the lathe. I was taught to do things in the opposite direction and virtually every machinist on TH-cam works towards the chuck and towards the center. So what is the reason for this contradiction? I've never even heard it discussed! It seems like something that is taught as being so foundational, various authors would agree on the correct direction. Your thoughts?
Most of these books show tool grinding if you use the old rocker style tool post. The grinds are not the best for quick change tool posts.
Yeah!
Awsome follow up video Mr Pete. For a class room demonsteration those wooden tools are perfect and work really well in video too. Hope your doing ok
Thanks
Awesome presentation Mr. Pete. I am using a size AXA quick change tool post in my WWII vintage Southbend 9C Lathe. The lathe was missing the original lantern style tool post when I bought it, so I purchased and have been using the QCTP and its compliment of tool bit holders. The problem I have been experiencing from time to time is tool chatter. It is so frustrating because I get the chatter turning mild steel at the slowest feed rate and with cuts as shallow as .005. The tool holders are not compensated for turning tool rake angle, so I am realizing that perhaps I need to increase the rake on the tool bits I already sharpened by hand.
Yes, try grinding your tool with various angles
Good
Hello Lyle, I see the South Bend Lathe book, 'How to Run a Lathe' was first copyrighted in 1914...but first printed in 1907...wow......what a wonderful book...the addition I found on line was 1966.....at Vintage Machinery.....hope this helps someone....I had one of the 1940's editions, but not sure where it got off to.......best wishes, Paul
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Very helpful, thanks. I bought a decent set of carbide insert tooling with my lathe, but I also have some HSS blanks that I’m going to play with. I also have a parts drawer’s worth of HSS bits I got from my master-machinist Dad years ago that I’ll now have a use for. (And that’ll also show me how to properly grind all manner of tools :-)
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i have been trying to find your vid on grinding fly cutter tool
I have no such video
Dear MrPete222 - I love your videos. I wish I'd had you as my shop teacher way back when... Long shot question: I'm wanting to use a fly cutter to cut nail nicks into the slip joint knives I make. But I can't seem to find anything that details what shape/geometry to put on the HSS tool bit to get the best results. What are your thoughts?
Hi there I recently acquired a redman churchill cub mk3a I believe I've been trying to find a book for it I'm in the uk
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Much Thanks Lyle..
I kinda like it when you beat a subject to Death HAHAHAHAH....
Something about your Voice ???
Mike M.
lol
Will you be covering round profile HSS? How about tangential cutting tools? I've been very curious about these offerings from eccentric engineering. Supposedly makes quite a difference on smaller less powerful lathes. I would really like to try one, but they are rather pricey. I keep asking various Machinists in hopes that somebody has tried one and can tell me simply if it's worth the cost of admission?
I can answer for the tangential cutting tool - it works and remarkably well. Eccentric Engineering took over production from the original manufacturer and I bought the then smallest version from that person; unfortunately no longer made. I was using a Unimat 3 and trying to cut 40mm cast steel bar. A normally ground HSS tool was quickly blunted and a carbide tool chipped but the 'Diamond Tool Holder' enabled this tiny lathe to machine the bar, albeit very slowly and with extremely fine cuts.
I've seen a comment by the owner of a Myford ML7 who would demonstrate its capabilities by reducing half-inch steel bar completely to chips in a single pass.
Are you the Tubal Cain who wrote the workshop practice books on hardening steel, etc. ?
No
Bought a new pedestal grinder, at sale, still standing on the floor on its rubber feet. It runs very silently and doesn't try to walk away.... The only pedestal I've got is the home for 3 flower pots...
Regarding the sparks from the grinder some home protective cabinet is needed for the shop residing in the kitchen....
End of the joke.
Will You show how to grind ship brakers lookin like ditches?
I have a book for my Logan 950 that has cutter angles and illustrations in it. I could email some pictures if you’d like.
I need some help. I purchased my Harrison L5 Lathe (1959 ish) from an old machinist. He worked for Universities making laboratory experimental jigs. He was an apprentice during WWII here in the UK. He would never discuss his age but he did admit that he was bombed on his way to a movie. Knocked off his feet when a bomb hit close by. I have his tool bits and they work really well. I have tried grinding my own but they just don't work as well as his. I was taught to grind bits when I was in high school at the age of 12. I just can't get one of my bits to perform on this lathe. What did Derek know that I don't? He said that he apprenticed on this lathe back when he was a teenager. Does the individual lathe matter this much? He had 55 years on this lathe at least. None of the established American profiles I was taught work at all. Derek's bits look like they are from the moon. I cant even begin to understand the geometry enough to re sharpen them. What do I do? By the way, Derek chambered all of the rifle barrels for the Canadian Palma Team on this lathe so I know it is good. He said that he replaced the bearings and got rid of the run out. Poor Derek has past away so I can't just phone him up any more. He was a great guy. He worked mostly in aluminium towards the end so you can imagine what he was grinding to make this slow lathe work with that material. What knowledge. I am very respectful.
That is a very difficult question to answer. I see that you have watched my video. I would say watch it several more times and practice over and over until you get the angles pretty much perfect. Also try to hone after your grind without rounding on the cutting edge. Practice practice.
You don't need to worry about getting the exact angles; we'll take it out of your pay...
If you think Boxford and South Bend were an unholy alliance, wait until you find out Bridgeports are also made in England.
Yes
Please hold things steady, stop waving books and the like around!
Those rh and lh tools are really kinda useless.....you can't turn to a square shoulder with them
You can if you set the cutting face at 90 degrees to the work.