Him saying he has no sympathy for her, "only the babies," even after it was proven that she was not the mother, shows that he actually didn't care about the truth and justice of the matter, and only wanted to shame her for having a baby out of wedlock. We all have sympathy for the babies, that is not a remarkable statement, it's basic human decency, but it was in HIS power to seek the truth, and instead he was mad at her for not being married. How embarassing and shameful to have someone in that position put personal feelings above justice, yikes.
Shame on the authorities and their relentless torture of that poor young woman and her family. Also what kind of monster(s) stab babies and destroy their final resting place?! RIP baby John. I hope karma comes for all those who so richly deserve it in this case.
My guess would be a relative who felt shame by his existence. i wonder when the destruction of the headstone ceased in correlation to debilitation/ deaths of family members.
@@christineharris2302 the excuse I hear in Ireland constantly is, "sure they are just being lads" or you would be stared down by a mammy defending her horrible excuse for a son. Weird culture here, women are apathetic to backwards men, they even defend them.
@@Cavernvisionwhile the patriarchy has definitely hurt women, it's the greater problem of "authorities" deciding their conclusions are fact despite evidence that challenges them. Some really nasty women took advantage of young pregnant girls too. We need less division and more willingness to look at facts IMO
I fell pregnant at age 16 in 1981 and I can tell you that SHAME was the feeling most felt by myself during this time. Even my beloved mother, who was actually my only support during that pregnancy, told the elderly neighbour who visited while I sat on the front verandah that "We've got some bad news to tell you Mr T. Michelle's pregnant". God bless that old man who responded "Pat, its never bad news when a baby's on the way" which was one of the very few times that anyone said anything nice to me at all. Anyone would think that I had murdered a 1000 children rather than try and keep my own son safe while he grew inside me. Even the Catholic neighbour told me that she would have had an abortion before enduring what I endured during that time. Its left long-term PTSD and terrible memories of that time as internal scars that haven't healed decades later. My own father didn't say a word to me for almost an entire year and every time I'd enter a room, he'd leave it. My child's father had flattly refused to get married, a condition that my own father had placed on me with the other option being to abandon that relationship and not see him again, but 18 year old men don't really WANT to get married, at least my son's father didn't, and I was stuck. I am about the same age as the mother of Baby John and I don't know why her son died or if she and his father killed him or some other family member did, but he would be 40 years old now and he deserves justice! Poor lad had his entire life taken away within days of it beginning and I hope that whoever DID murder him faces justice! Whoever destroyed and desecrated his grave is a lowly POS who deserves some prison time, too. RIP to John and to the man who took a murdered baby into his family and cared for his grave for all those years. Shame on the Police who brutalised that poor woman who had suffered a stillbirth and was raked over the coals for it. Thankfully there is no "shame" today in getting pregnant out of wedlock. But it was brutal back in the years pre millenium! HC you opened up old wounds but I am glad that you shared this story!
😂lol fell pregnant struck me as an odd way to put it - I’d be willing to bet that the majority of us wound up pregnant without really planning it - idk maybe today things are different - that’s not to say that my kids aren’t a blessing they are and I’m grateful but when I was in my early twenties looking back it seems so young and now my kids are older then I was when they were born , smh time flies ….
Wow. I’m sorry, but recognize, you’re a strong woman. Your dad sounds the type to make the boy marry his daughter shotgun in hand. I was a teen mom in the 90’s. My son is in his late 20’s now and lives (with his weird girlfriend) independently. My mom was my only support, too. The army took care of the rest. The prospect of marrying that bum I was with was out of the question to me. Why keep piling more bad decisions on top of others? It was 1995, not 1955. I never had any of those horrible experiences from others. My family is Catholic, but no stranger was going to disrespect any of us, no matter what we thought about it. Plus, the alternative being abortion… well, you know. It worked out, I look at my friends with small kids at this age and think they’re the crazy ones! I’m in my 40’s, married for 20 years, managed to have a good life, all my money is mine, I can look back and have the pride of knowing I made it, I’m happy and leave for Hawaii on Wednesday. I wish you the best!
Thank you for sharing your situation!! I bet your children are so proud to have you as their mother! Also, it sounds like your elderly neighbor was a good man. 🙏
While I agree with your neighbor, about it never being "bad news" about any upcoming birth, I take issue with the phrase "falling pregnant". You had sexual relations, which resulted in your pregnancy. All babies come to us in the same way. They all deserve to be loved, and mothers deserve to be helped to become the very best mothers they can be. Every child matters, and fathers should be encouraged to be involved, because it is better for the child to know his/her father, and should be supported, financially. I applaud your decision to keep your child. Motherhood is not for sissies. It can be brutal, but it also is one of the most rewarding things a woman can experience. Our 15 year old had her first child the sae year, and it was my privilege to help her with our granddaughter. I knew, because she was my baby, how she thought motherhood was going to be, as opposed to what it actually is; repetitive, and exhausting half the time. She had a romantic view of what it was, and because of her age, she had not thought of the financial implications of family. Her father took it very well, and created the nursery, while I found the best medical team to care for her, & her unborn child. I made sure that people knew where we stood; our daughter, for her youth, was brave, just as you were, at 16, to take on motherhood, not punish and cut short the life of another human, just because their life got in the way of our own. I hope and pray that your own parents came to realize that you were a child; their child! I hope they love your son, because he is their grandchild. God does not make mistakes, and your son was born because God wanted him in your life, and in the lives of every member of his family. I wish you the very best, and hope your son is doing well. God Bless you, and your family.
Well done on approaching this case with tact and grace, it’s a very sad chapter in Irish history. My father in law was a Garda and he had an original copy of the report that was published from the tribunal, it makes for a harrowing read and highlights the utterly disgraceful behaviour of the Guards, the investigators and the justice system that was in place back then. It’s still a very raw subject in that part of the country to this day. Also, as a side note, well done on your pronunciation of Irish surnames and place names, people outside of Ireland can often make an absolute balls of them so fair play to you.
The way the Gardi officers, judge & interogators in the whole torture of Joanne & her family is nothing short of evil! I'm glad they eventually got some form of justice, but it should never have been allowed to happen. Totally evil! I'm just glad people stood up & supported her through it.
as soon as they found the real parents, I had a feeling that there was a cover up of some sort...even now they drag their feet to get their answers! the parents knew that the woman was not involved and still they let her life be destroyed! that in itself is a crime!
It always amazes me that the FBI has been VERY CLEAR that law enforcement is 1 point off from criminal personalities. Yet we insist the men and women hired to carry out the annually changing laws of the land are somehow moral compasses and fine upstanding citizens.... definitely NEVER halfassed government employees who are actually just your average high school graduate that insists they knew everything they needed by 4 years old and have worked to never mature a day since.
When someone persecute someone else and insists they’re right without evidence, conclusively shows to me, the persecutor is guilty of crimes. And their insistence of guilt against an innocent is projection of their own criminal activities.
Detective Jerry O'Carroll is a grand example. In what fantasy world, would a young woman be impregnated by 2 men, give birth to twin boys, bury one on the family farm, and viciously murder the other & leave him to be found in the beach?!? Never mind naming all of her family liars & perjurers. That it took over 30 years to get this mess sorted out, and this detective would never apologize. Seems like he confused being Gardai with being Gestapo.
Thank you for the thorough report! First, I find it hard to believe that the parents didn’t have anything to do with the baby’s murder, or else they would’ve either reported their baby as missing at the time and/or stepped up when the baby’s body was found. The fact they continue to deny and have NO remorse is what bothers me..
Or, if the baby's mother had relatives in the police force, maybe they killed the baby out of shame and the baby's mother never said anything because it was her relative...
During that era, it wasn't uncommon for unwed mothers to be told their infant died during birth, only for the baby to actually be taken away and put up for adoption. If it was a situation where someone was trying to "save" their relative or friend from the shame of being an unwed mother, I could see that happening, only for the baby to killed afterwards.
@@fematrailer In a such small community it would be impossible not to hear about that horrible crime and put 2 and 2 together. No excuse for baby John's parents.
@@willmistretta I know this may seem sexist as well, but as soon as she told us the baby had been stabbed multiple times and the neck broken, I felt absolutely certain it was NEVER the mother. That it had to be someone else. Would a mother kill a baby she didn't want to have? I am sure there are women who would, but they wouldn't over kill like that.
@charlotteinnocent8752 oh but they do 😢 Many a child has been born to a cold, heartless woman called mother. Most people just cannot imagine such a being.
@@mack_mcmillan pull your head out of whatever hole it is stuck in, incel. I'm guessing you fell asleep during history at school, that is if you can read at all. Ignorance like yours only proves the point of this video.
A shameful passage of history for the Irish Guard's who once they started lying were caught in a cess-pit of their own making. The DNA twist indicating the Babies mother was the child of a Guard goes to explain why they were desperate to "fit up" poor Joanne Hayes & her family. Baby John RIP innocent always! Thanks to "heavy casefiles" for explaining this tragic story so well. The disgraceful behaviour of the guards in their shocking handling of this case which should have been conducted in a far more sensitive way. The Inquiry photo of about 30 men with not a single woman involved shows how intimidated Joanne Hayes must have felt with every move of her most personnel life under scrutiny. Thank heavens for DNA forensics.
That's Roman Catholic Ireland for you. No wonder the Protestant counties don't want to join Roman Catholic Ireland. I'm Canadian, but both my husband and I have Protestant Irish heritage in our background. My husband's family likes to say that it was Scottish because of its family name, Inkster, but, the females are all of pure Irish descent going back to the Canadian founding ancestor.
@@dinkster1729 maybe ya missed the *occupied* counties elected sf for their 1st minister for the 1st time *ever?* that catholics have outnumbered protestants in norn iron for years now? that non-religious & other religions keep growing? that your husband's family's correct that "protestant irish" come from scottish settlers? ffs, wind yer neck in & stop babbling about shite ya obviously don't understand ya feckin gowl
@@dinkster1729 maybe ya missed the *occupied* counties elected sf for their 1st minister for the 1st time *ever?* that catholics have outnumbered protestants in norn iron for years now? that non-religious & other religions keep growing? that your husband's family's correct that "protestant irish" come from scottish settlers? ffs, wind yer neck in ya gowl
@@iseultbourke4692 True! Mothers, if they were very young, were pretty well forced to give up their baby since welfare rates were so low and few would rent to a single mother. They were also forced into unwed mothers' homes until they gave birth and gave up their child. I've listened to some of these mothers stories and they are horrible. Giving up their child led to long-term depression and, sometimes, they had accidents that caused life-altering injuries. Horrible stories, in fact.
If they denied being his parents, that’s a clear sign to me that they were involved in his murder. They would’ve said their newborn was abducted and they never knew what happened to him, if they were innocent. Them denying any knowledge is proof of guilt to me.
@@dinkster1729but they denied having a baby in the first place. I didn’t hear them say they had a baby at that time that they gave up for adoption, did you? Denying they had a baby at all during that time = guilt.
@@Christophertracy09 They are covering something in their past up for sure. However, they stabbed their own baby 28 times and broke its neck? Then, they went on to live ordinary lives as if nothing had happened? A bit unusual to say the least.
@@dinkster1729there’s a lot of bad people in this world who commit awful acts of homicide and continue going about their life year after year, decade after decade. Hence the main point of this channel, which is cold cases. It’s hardly unusual at all.
@@Christophertracy09 this is all true, but i feel like intimidation from the killer themselves (or the garda, if the killer was one of their own) could result in the same behavior. safer to not assume, and let evidence reveal itself over the coming investigation
It always amazes me how it takes two people to make a baby, but the woman is always the one who pays the price. How about society holds these men who impregnate women and dash with the same contempt?
If those two people were not guilty to the murder of baby John then why didn't they come forward about his death? Why sit back and allow an innocent family go through what they went through? They are horrible people who not only refused to give their son a proper burial but also watched as a young woman and her family were brutally attacked on false accusations for years
While absolutely not an excuse, not wanting the vitriol and condemnation that was heaped on Joanne and her family to be redirected to themselves could definitely influence people to keep quiet. It's not right or fair, but I can understand it to an extent.
@@penguincpickles225 This happened 40 years ago, Baby Johns mother was in her 50's when questioned so she was anywhere between 10 and 19 when she gave birth. Her dad was a Guard powerful enough to keep her out of suspicions way. She was likely a victim of intimidation or worse herself.
@@eloradannen my thought exactly. people quick to levvy accusations of guilt towards his mother today are choosing to ignore how that same black and white thinking resulted in joann's ordeal
Baby John's mother was the young daughter of a cop. If she wasn't married, it's likely that her father controlled the entire situation. If he put her into an unwed mother's home her son would have been put up for adoption without her consent and she would have left the facility without him. If she gave birth at home, her father may have kiIIed and disposed of the baby. Cops back then were seen as good, morally upstanding, and trustworthy men. A pregnant teenage daughter would have ruined his career and reputation in the community. 40 years later, and we still don't know what happened but there are plenty of possibilities where the baby's parents aren't the guilty party.
80s ireland was such a different place. The catholic church thankfully has no longer its lethal grip. This case showed beliefs of the time. Hence horror stories like mother and baby homes and magdalene laundries. I remember this case, ann lovett..... i also know someone who was sent to a home in 1991!!!!!!
aye, was barely a dozen years ago when Savita Halappanavar died due to the 8th amendment which still took another half dozen to repeal! it's mad the usa appears set to repeat ireland's hard lessons rather than learn from such relatively recent examples
@@r_and_a There are zero cases in the USA where law has caused this, doctor/medical neglect, yes, but examine the 'recent examples' and this has nothing to do with any law on the books....even the deceased loved ones have come out regarding the misinformation. I'd cite the medical reasons and complications, but YT would remove the comment.
@@kazamareenkurios8197 what are you banging on about? the "relatively recent examples" in both my reply & the op were all from *ireland* hence "it's mad the usa *appears* set to *repeat ireland's hard lessons"* so wind yer neck in ya gowl
This whole episode infuriated me! Those police officers were disgusting, especially the one who would never apolgise even when proven wrong. And the fact that they haven't charged anyone in the death of baby John. They obviously don't want to progress the case since it will probably open another can of worms for themselves.
As someone who has lived in a couple of small towns in Ireland, I can tell you people are still incredibly narrow minded and behind the times. The schools are still church influenced, people saying they are not are lying. Hypocritical parents still spend a bomb on Communions. The ridiculous things educated Irish men have said to me about women's rights are sixty years behind developed mindsets. The family is still a weaponised concept. Remember divorce wasn't a thing before the 90's here. Abortion took so long to legalise, it was embarrassing.
I’m first Gen Italian. When I started my menstrual cycle my Nonna took me aside and said “and now you know…suffering is a woman’s lot.” I did social work for over 15 years and you know what? My Nonna was right.
And the rest of the world wants to drag women all over the planet back to the stone age where this shit belongs. Never been more glad to be this old, I've been a militant feminist all my life and right now I just cant look at men the same way, seriously. WTF is wrong with them?
I love the hypocrisy. Okay for males. How many of these cops had sex outside of marriage and it was okay because they didn't get pregnant? The males she had sex with should have had to detail the loss of their virginity too. I am so fed up with double standards. The church is a hypocrite, one of many reasons I stopped believing in religion. Just a way of controlling women.
Mother and baby homes were, for the women who were imprisoned there, something in between a jail and a work-camp. They were not allowed to leave without the approval of the religious authorities, even though they had not been found guilty of any crime. They were also treated as slaves and forced to work for free in laundries and other enterprises which generated a lot of money for the church, which had an incentive to keep them locked up. Many of the children were sold. There were also Protestant Baby and Mother homes in the North. It is no surprise that Irish girls and women would do anything to keep themselves safe from that system.
Having a child out of wed lock shameful, preventing a pregnancy shameful, ending a pregnancy shameful.Have a miscarriage shameful. None of these should be shameful, pregnancy happens rather planned or not.
And, pregnancy/babies cannot happen without a man fullstop. Nowadays it's possible yes if you really want a baby a woman can do this via insemination of a different kind. But back then, never. 👀
1 in 5 pregnancies ends in miscarriages: God's little abortions. Gods apparently a fan, its his cohorts trying to get money from you that pretend it's something to be ashamed of. One of the many reasons most of us who aren't sociopaths have figured out we do not actually have to have a threat of some magical man floating in the clouds to just act like decent human beings.
What a heartbreaking story. And once again, brutal murder unsolved for years/decades just because the perpetrator was connected to someone within the law enforcement. Those disgusting policemen abused their power to cover up such a horrible crime. And the cover up goes of course further up. Poor child. RIP baby John. Huge respect to Mr. Tom (RIP) and his family for taking care of the little angel and his final resting place. Very sad but well done video, thanks for sharing.
People all through America have an abundance of access to birth control and prophylactics and yet still fail to use them, and demand abortions. You can give people all the tools in the world and they will still make poor choices and demand freedom from accountability for their actions.
Three cheers for this answer!! I went to a private Christian school and we had very realistic and honest sex education. They pointed out the only way to prevent all these issues is to not have sex, but they also told us how to do it safely if we were going to do it. None of the kids in my class had kids before they were adults, which is unusual for the area. Seeing as the only other local school, a public one, actually had a *in-school daycare* for the children of the children of that school. Because teen pregnancy was such a huge issue in the area, and they figured to keep these kids in school at all they have to provide care for _their_ kids. Really sad situation, they should have tried sex education! It worked for us!
My grandmother wasn't yet 15 when she gave birth to a child, my father. The local Catholic church relocated her to a district beyond her home. Tere she served in the convent as a scullery maid , washer woman . Whilst the Catholic school they ran ,brought up my father until aged 16, He was a good scholar and choir boy , and believed he had a call on his life to become a Priest , When he applied for this vocation, he was told, You cannot, as you, are a bustard, You do not qualify. HE LEFT THE CHURCH from that moment on. Because he was in church custody, I have often wondered if he was a child of the local Priest. , Catholic church hierarchy do very strange things , He grew up ,in Mary Magdalene Convent school , South Island ,NZ. God Bless all ❤❤❤
Why? Because the church is trying to teach each generation, that the next generation is important to every society? Seems the justice system is responsible for investigations, and trials. Where does the church come into DNA testing, or the garda blaming anyone for a dead child?
I am almost never speechless, but after the Tribunal stated that she was basically totally responsible for the affair because she was pretty much *insisting* on giving the guy sexual favors had my mind just... blank.
Ya…cuz saying “I’m sorry” totally erases years and years of trauma. Wow. This is disgusting. And if you cannot find it within yourself to feel bad about how you put someone’s entire life and was laid bare to the public, you’re a monster. You cannot have it both ways. You can’t be “prolife” but then chastise a woman for becoming pregnant when they aren’t given the correct information to prevent pregnancies other than “don’t have sex”. Because you’re also essentially saying “don’t get r*ped.” Maybe tell that to the priests.
Having given birth to 4 boys and losing a sibling as a child, I cannot imagine staying silent after giving birth to other children who lived full lives. Poor baby John.
Thank you for your compassionate, dignified and intelligent coverage of this tragic case without the dramatic music and melodramatic cliche ridden rubbish which is far too common on crime channels, particularly those from the USA. I'm so impressed that I've subscribed and as an admitted youtube addict, you're the first channel for which I've done so: looking forward to receiving what else you have to offer.
If they had put half so much energy into finding that babies Killers as they did into vilifying that woman for absolutely no reason, they probably could have solved the case
Sounds like they know, or have a good idea, and don’t want to say. The fact that the mother is a relative of law enforcement - and law enforcement, refuses, even now to apologize for their behavior means some in law enforcement 1. At best, suppressed evidence, or 2. At worst, is directly involved. And 3. Since they are still dragging their feet, it’s A. Powerful connections, and/or B. Again, directly involved. If it was the grand-parents, maybe they are waiting for them to die - rather than deal with the reputational injury to law enforcement - or the next generation in the family is also powerful and no one wants to deal with that.
This reminded me of the horrific institutional abuses by the Irish Catholic church which were portrayed in the movie "In the Name of God." It absolutely shocked me that such barbarous abuse could have been carried on in a western European country until 1996.
I wonder if the males who impregnate the females are also disowned by their families and communities? 🤔 Notice all the men judging the young woman? I wonder if they understand how a pregnancy occurs? I wonder if the married man who repeatedly impregnated her was held to account for his actions?
Abusers often don't find legit excuses for abuse. But when Abusers find eachother it's always bad for their victims. Id orefer a bully of an abuser any day. Bullies are singular and typically don't get along with other bullies. Abusers form little groups. And hier their friends.
Wow, never knew I would learn about this terrible murder and that my late uncle Tom Cournane looked after baby John, my lovely cousin, Catherine carried the coffin. What a tragedy for baby and the awful treatment of Joanne Hayes.
Your uncle sounds like he was a wonderful human being. I have no doubt he is in the summer lands now where he is being thanked by each and every one of the Tuatha de Dannan for his kindness and compassion towards Baby John for he truly showed what it means to be a person of compassion. I think the biological father of Baby John should face punishment for his actions and have his name posted everywhere as a reminder of what your actions lead to. More often it is the female who is shamed and blamed for her actions when in reality the father is as much to blame especially if the conception was caused by SA, incest and or domestic abuse.
Can we all agree, on how much of a COOL DUDE Tom was?! If only there were many, many more of this type of people in this world, what a better place this world would be!! Take note, PLEASE! We all appreciate you, Tom-even those all the way out here in the San Francisco Bay Area, California! Tom and Baby John will never be forgotten🤗 To those who would desecrate any gravesite….but a baby’s? If you can’t stand yourselves by now, there’s MANY that will do it for you, because you are a total waste of space, 🤮
baby john's parents need to explain.... and also for their seeming willingness to let that poor lady get nailed for a murder she had nothing to do with.... one also wonders how that sibling of baby john feels
Don’t forget religion was created by man not a woman… To control the masses and keep women suppressed. Right from the beginning everything bad was a women’s fault .
@@bobbierobinson6269 I've been exposed to most of them in one form or another. All Abrahamic religions are certainly twisted. I don't see any point in "trying" any, except perhaps Pastafarianism. My colander might actually get some use then.
Painful to watch this. I understand all Michelle says. With that, I'll say, laws made by men, regarding pregnancy,, for political support should never be considered.
@@huntlife if that's the case women should have no say about 90% of everything else that pertains to men in society ..Perhaps women can go fight in wars
Wonderful - didn't know about the updates. The garde having everyone sit in limbo, because of retirements, seems to be hard on everyone including the accused. They should get on with it, so people can get on with their lives.
I really hope some of these Garda officers are still alive and see how evil they were to this woman. I am taken no excuses for their behaviour they were evil men. 😊
And not a word against the men impregnating these “fallen” women…ugh. I got pregnant at 19 in the early 1980s in the USA, & the shame foisted on me was nearly unbearable. Of course nothing happened to the father.
May baby John rest in peace, and the lovely man who ensured a resting place for John, the only shining example of humanity in this dreadful saga. There could never be any excuse for such savagery towards an innocent baby, or any possible excuse for the wilful blaming of Joanne Hayes, someone killed that baby, that someone or persons also allowed an innocent woman carry the blame. Utterly vile and contemptible, monsters masquerading as human. Baby John is the ultimate victim in the whole story, may justice soon be served for him.
To say that this makes me seethe is an understatement. Crazy as F! The Garda, the courts, the MF'ing church, and the entire backwards country, makes me sick and they deserve 10X that settlement.
Who attacks a baby's grave, not an ounce of humanity. The man that named baby John and watched his grave until his passing is truly a kind soul. What a traumatic event for everyone involved 💔
The garda: We didn't couldn't have *possibly* psychologically tortured a grieving mother of a miscarried child! No, instead she had an incredibly rare and actually impossible set of twins!
Well, it’s not like the instances of people finding dolls or mannequins are reported or recorded. But I think one of the main reasons people think that is because bodies get very stiff and pale after death. They often times don’t immediately look like “real” anymore.
It's horrible that from the get go this wasn't an attempt to find the resemblance of justice, but to simply punish a woman, any woman, to dare to have sex. The baby wasn't just a victim of it's parents, but the church, the law makers and garda, who neither allowed his parents to prevent his conception, get an abortion or lastly receive help both alive and later dead.
HC I can only imagine how painful and upsetting it must’ve been for you to cover this story, both of baby John and the young woman who was pilloried For having babies out of wedlock and accused of being the mother and the murderer of baby John. I sincerely thank you for bringing this story to us with utmost sensitivity, but at the same time with straightforward reporting of the harrowing details that seem more aligned with medieval times rather than relatively modern times. It was more like a witch hunt than a police inquiry. Your work shows such personal integrity. Thank you!
As if women got pregnant all by themselves. How sad and disgusting the times were towards women. I'm here in the United States they are doing their best the Republican party to prevent women from having access two abortion even if it's going to cause death to the mother. Even if the baby is only going to be born and live for a few moments. And they usually know that immediately during the pregnancy that the baby will not survive afterbirth.
Also, what about conjoined twins who can't survive, if separated? What about babies who will develop horrible, crippling abnormalities and die young like those with muscular dystrophy or other purely genetic diseases? My husband has type 1 diabetes. He's had it for 46 years. The cost of treating this serious illness now is horrendous to prevent complications?. Should he have had 2 children? Should our daughter have had one? Should my husband's nephew have had 2 children? Some people do make the decision not to have children because of serious disease, perhaps, presenting itself. And some women will seek an abortion rather than risk having a child with type one diabetes.
Even if the prosecution was correct--- Why would she bury one twin on family property then desecrate the other & discard him like trash? How would she even have known that only one twin was her lover's & the other belonged to a random fling?? Most people don't even know this is technically possible. I'd think she'd assume BOTH babies belonged to one or the other man & have treated them in a similar fashion, tbh...
wow, money doesnt fix anything but Joanne should of been awarded something more in the multi millions range at the very kleast 36 million, a mil for every year they dragged this out
I was living in Ireland and was 17/18 when the Irish news was all about The Kerry Baby mystery/tribunal. I haven't heard mention of the case which I believed had been solved, for 40 years. This film is simply,astonishing to me - what a horrific sequence of events. I hope Joanne and her family are finally able to put it all behind them and that there will be justice for Baby John. Thank you. 💔💔💔
Imagine being the kid that found out that baby John was your sibling.. that sounds so horrible, I honestly can't imagine the survivors guilt. Knowing you got to grow up and John didn't, and how the baby was found.. finding out what your parent/s could have done to you is a horrible feeling I'm sure. I hope they're doing okay, I hope they find peace, and that baby John gets justice soon, poor thing deserved it a while ago.
About 1/4 of the way through and I CANT WATCH ANY MORE. The COPS are the most heinous humans I have ever heard of. The forced everything - the lies they not only made up but forced others to live those lies is BEYOND some of the worst cop/public crimes I have ever heard of. I thought the Irish including the cops were happy go lucky nice people (apart from those involved in all that Northern Ireland vs the other Ireland Rubbish that went on for years.) Hell I wanted my ancestors to be Irish criminals sent to Botany Bay & was so disappointed when I found out I had no Irish heritage BUT THIS story has me rethinking that.
My sympathy to Joanne and her family, what a terrible thing that they were accused of. Shame on Baby Johns biological family for their actions that caused his death and allowed Joanne to be publicly persecuted for years. I hope that both baby John and baby Shane are in the care of the angels and resting in Peace
I'm from Ireland and remember when this happened, it was a terrible case for all involved and sadly no justice for Baby John who's only crime was being born.
Darn means the mother of the child was no more than 14-18 when she had her. Her family being a member of the garda would have expedited the case against Joanne in attempts to hide his own involvement. I cant see a mother who unalived her child marrying and having more children with him after such a tragedy. I believe she was probably 15 years old. The baby taken from her as she slept. And a family member directly linked to the garda stole her baby and unalived it. I had a feeling it was Joanne's mom who unalived her, but it was probably both parents of the mother. Only breaking the neck after 28 stabbes didn't unalive him by both gmom(knife) and gdad(force). The mother coukdve been told the baby was given to a family. And never imagined that the infamous baby john was hers. What a tragedy. That poor poor baby. And I literally broke out in tears over that sweet undertaker. He looked like a real cheeky type sweetheart that only wanted to do the right thing. And his children following his legacy some 40 years later proves he was just that. But you gotta be a real piece of work to destroy a headstone. My guess is the undertaker knew exactly who did it. And him being a member of the garda or retired by then couldn't do a thing. Your stories always tugs at my heart strings lady! It's why I stay subscribed. Thank you!
@@bobbierobinson6269 Birth control does on occasion fail. Miss Hayes wasn't being tried. She was only giving testimony. Did she have a lawyer? Surely he/she should have said, "I object to this line of questioning because it's irrelevant." Some men are very strange in their attitudes.
The grave marker being distroyed is absolutely horrendous. The fact he was taken is not enough? Seems they were/are more concerned in the one ladies affair more then solving the original death. I thought the U.S. had some messed up authorites.
Shame on everyone involved in making this an exercise in cruelty and prejudice rather than an attempt at justice.
Him saying he has no sympathy for her, "only the babies," even after it was proven that she was not the mother, shows that he actually didn't care about the truth and justice of the matter, and only wanted to shame her for having a baby out of wedlock. We all have sympathy for the babies, that is not a remarkable statement, it's basic human decency, but it was in HIS power to seek the truth, and instead he was mad at her for not being married. How embarassing and shameful to have someone in that position put personal feelings above justice, yikes.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Shame on the authorities and their relentless torture of that poor young woman and her family. Also what kind of monster(s) stab babies and destroy their final resting place?! RIP baby John. I hope karma comes for all those who so richly deserve it in this case.
My guess would be a relative who felt shame by his existence.
i wonder when the destruction of the headstone ceased in correlation to debilitation/ deaths of family members.
As always the question is, where is the father of the baby, who was a married man?
@@christineharris2302 the excuse I hear in Ireland constantly is, "sure they are just being lads" or you would be stared down by a mammy defending her horrible excuse for a son. Weird culture here, women are apathetic to backwards men, they even defend them.
Right?! But, No. It’s only the woman’s fault. Even if she was graped.
you don't expect men to not get away with murder do you? they have gotten away with horrific horrific things since time began
@@LotsofLisaalways. Patriarchy at work, as always. Sickening.
@@Cavernvisionwhile the patriarchy has definitely hurt women, it's the greater problem of "authorities" deciding their conclusions are fact despite evidence that challenges them. Some really nasty women took advantage of young pregnant girls too. We need less division and more willingness to look at facts IMO
I fell pregnant at age 16 in 1981 and I can tell you that SHAME was the feeling most felt by myself during this time. Even my beloved mother, who was actually my only support during that pregnancy, told the elderly neighbour who visited while I sat on the front verandah that "We've got some bad news to tell you Mr T. Michelle's pregnant". God bless that old man who responded "Pat, its never bad news when a baby's on the way" which was one of the very few times that anyone said anything nice to me at all. Anyone would think that I had murdered a 1000 children rather than try and keep my own son safe while he grew inside me. Even the Catholic neighbour told me that she would have had an abortion before enduring what I endured during that time. Its left long-term PTSD and terrible memories of that time as internal scars that haven't healed decades later. My own father didn't say a word to me for almost an entire year and every time I'd enter a room, he'd leave it. My child's father had flattly refused to get married, a condition that my own father had placed on me with the other option being to abandon that relationship and not see him again, but 18 year old men don't really WANT to get married, at least my son's father didn't, and I was stuck. I am about the same age as the mother of Baby John and I don't know why her son died or if she and his father killed him or some other family member did, but he would be 40 years old now and he deserves justice! Poor lad had his entire life taken away within days of it beginning and I hope that whoever DID murder him faces justice! Whoever destroyed and desecrated his grave is a lowly POS who deserves some prison time, too. RIP to John and to the man who took a murdered baby into his family and cared for his grave for all those years. Shame on the Police who brutalised that poor woman who had suffered a stillbirth and was raked over the coals for it. Thankfully there is no "shame" today in getting pregnant out of wedlock. But it was brutal back in the years pre millenium! HC you opened up old wounds but I am glad that you shared this story!
😂lol fell pregnant struck me as an odd way to put it - I’d be willing to bet that the majority of us wound up pregnant without really planning it - idk maybe today things are different - that’s not to say that my kids aren’t a blessing they are and I’m grateful but when I was in my early twenties looking back it seems so young and now my kids are older then I was when they were born , smh time flies ….
Wow. I’m sorry, but recognize, you’re a strong woman. Your dad sounds the type to make the boy marry his daughter shotgun in hand. I was a teen mom in the 90’s. My son is in his late 20’s now and lives (with his weird girlfriend) independently. My mom was my only support, too. The army took care of the rest. The prospect of marrying that bum I was with was out of the question to me. Why keep piling more bad decisions on top of others? It was 1995, not 1955. I never had any of those horrible experiences from others. My family is Catholic, but no stranger was going to disrespect any of us, no matter what we thought about it. Plus, the alternative being abortion… well, you know. It worked out, I look at my friends with small kids at this age and think they’re the crazy ones! I’m in my 40’s, married for 20 years, managed to have a good life, all my money is mine, I can look back and have the pride of knowing I made it, I’m happy and leave for Hawaii on Wednesday. I wish you the best!
@@jocelynleagustowski9073 “fell pregnant has always been a weird saying to me too.
Thank you for sharing your situation!! I bet your children are so proud to have you as their mother! Also, it sounds like your elderly neighbor was a good man. 🙏
While I agree with your neighbor, about it never being "bad news" about any upcoming birth, I take issue with the phrase "falling pregnant". You had sexual relations, which resulted in your pregnancy. All babies come to us in the same way. They all deserve to be loved, and mothers deserve to be helped to become the very best mothers they can be. Every child matters, and fathers should be encouraged to be involved, because it is better for the child to know his/her father, and should be supported, financially.
I applaud your decision to keep your child. Motherhood is not for sissies. It can be brutal, but it also is one of the most rewarding things a woman can experience. Our 15 year old had her first child the sae year, and it was my privilege to help her with our granddaughter. I knew, because she was my baby, how she thought motherhood was going to be, as opposed to what it actually is; repetitive, and exhausting half the time. She had a romantic view of what it was, and because of her age, she had not thought of the financial implications of family. Her father took it very well, and created the nursery, while I found the best medical team to care for her, & her unborn child. I made sure that people knew where we stood; our daughter, for her youth, was brave, just as you were, at 16, to take on motherhood, not punish and cut short the life of another human, just because their life got in the way of our own.
I hope and pray that your own parents came to realize that you were a child; their child! I hope they love your son, because he is their grandchild. God does not make mistakes, and your son was born because God wanted him in your life, and in the lives of every member of his family. I wish you the very best, and hope your son is doing well. God Bless you, and your family.
Well done on approaching this case with tact and grace, it’s a very sad chapter in Irish history. My father in law was a Garda and he had an original copy of the report that was published from the tribunal, it makes for a harrowing read and highlights the utterly disgraceful behaviour of the Guards, the investigators and the justice system that was in place back then. It’s still a very raw subject in that part of the country to this day. Also, as a side note, well done on your pronunciation of Irish surnames and place names, people outside of Ireland can often make an absolute balls of them so fair play to you.
was also pleasantly surprised by the pronunciations as used to youtubers apparently not even bothering to google things before "reporting" them
The way the Gardi officers, judge & interogators in the whole torture of Joanne & her family is nothing short of evil! I'm glad they eventually got some form of justice, but it should never have been allowed to happen. Totally evil! I'm just glad people stood up & supported her through it.
Yes, pure evil. They acted worse than some occult sect.
as soon as they found the real parents, I had a feeling that there was a cover up of some sort...even now they drag their feet to get their answers! the parents knew that the woman was not involved and still they let her life be destroyed! that in itself is a crime!
it always amazes me the lengths authorities will go to to hide the truth. still going on now. poor girl, poor babies, poor family, what an ordeal.
It always amazes me that the FBI has been VERY CLEAR that law enforcement is 1 point off from criminal personalities. Yet we insist the men and women hired to carry out the annually changing laws of the land are somehow moral compasses and fine upstanding citizens.... definitely NEVER halfassed government employees who are actually just your average high school graduate that insists they knew everything they needed by 4 years old and have worked to never mature a day since.
When someone persecute someone else and insists they’re right without evidence, conclusively shows to me, the persecutor is guilty of crimes. And their insistence of guilt against an innocent is projection of their own criminal activities.
Detective Jerry O'Carroll is a grand example. In what fantasy world, would a young woman be impregnated by 2 men, give birth to twin boys, bury one on the family farm, and viciously murder the other & leave him to be found in the beach?!? Never mind naming all of her family liars & perjurers.
That it took over 30 years to get this mess sorted out, and this detective would never apologize. Seems like he confused being Gardai with being Gestapo.
Thank you for the thorough report! First, I find it hard to believe that the parents didn’t have anything to do with the baby’s murder, or else they would’ve either reported their baby as missing at the time and/or stepped up when the baby’s body was found. The fact they continue to deny and have NO remorse is what bothers me..
If they had given up the baby anonymously, then they may have had no idea that the baby on the news was the one they had given up.
Or, if the baby's mother had relatives in the police force, maybe they killed the baby out of shame and the baby's mother never said anything because it was her relative...
During that era, it wasn't uncommon for unwed mothers to be told their infant died during birth, only for the baby to actually be taken away and put up for adoption. If it was a situation where someone was trying to "save" their relative or friend from the shame of being an unwed mother, I could see that happening, only for the baby to killed afterwards.
@@fematrailer In a such small community it would be impossible not to hear about that horrible crime and put 2 and 2 together. No excuse for baby John's parents.
@@fematrailer That's a good point. They may be in shock at the news of what happened to their newborn, too, so many years ago.
27:40 who in the hell destroys the grave of a baby? This whole story is heartbreaking.
Crazy Catholic people
One assumes the same type of person who would stab one.
@@willmistretta I know this may seem sexist as well, but as soon as she told us the baby had been stabbed multiple times and the neck broken, I felt absolutely certain it was NEVER the mother. That it had to be someone else. Would a mother kill a baby she didn't want to have? I am sure there are women who would, but they wouldn't over kill like that.
@charlotteinnocent8752 oh but they do 😢
Many a child has been born to a cold, heartless woman called mother. Most people just cannot imagine such a being.
@@axollot I am still convinced that baby was murdered by a man. A woman would have simply smothered the poor thing.
Misogyny is a curse on humanity.
As is misandry.
@@mack_mcmillanOne of these is a much bigger problem & it’s not misandry
@@GoBlueGirl78 Says you. Without proof I might add.
@@mack_mcmillan LOL! Are you stupid or just ignorant of human history? Oh never mind, you’re both. Enjoy screaming into the void, you’re muted.
@@mack_mcmillan pull your head out of whatever hole it is stuck in, incel. I'm guessing you fell asleep during history at school, that is if you can read at all.
Ignorance like yours only proves the point of this video.
Makes one wonder who else these thugs got forced confessions from, and who are imprisoned.
A shameful passage of history for the Irish Guard's who once they started lying were caught in a cess-pit of their own making. The DNA twist indicating the Babies mother was the child of a Guard goes to explain why they were desperate to "fit up" poor Joanne Hayes & her family. Baby John RIP innocent always! Thanks to "heavy casefiles" for explaining this tragic story so well. The disgraceful behaviour of the guards in their shocking handling of this case which should have been conducted in a far more sensitive way. The Inquiry photo of about 30 men with not a single woman involved shows how intimidated Joanne Hayes must have felt with every move of her most personnel life under scrutiny. Thank heavens for DNA forensics.
The level of shame is off the charts. So worried about what others think
To think this happened in my lifetime. It sounds like the dark ages. Thank you for telling Joann and baby John's stories.
That's Roman Catholic Ireland for you. No wonder the Protestant counties don't want to join Roman Catholic Ireland. I'm Canadian, but both my husband and I have Protestant Irish heritage in our background. My husband's family likes to say that it was Scottish because of its family name, Inkster, but, the females are all of pure Irish descent going back to the Canadian founding ancestor.
@@dinkster1729 maybe ya missed the *occupied* counties elected sf for their 1st minister for the 1st time *ever?* that catholics have outnumbered protestants in norn iron for years now? that non-religious & other religions keep growing? that your husband's family's correct that "protestant irish" come from scottish settlers? ffs, wind yer neck in & stop babbling about shite ya obviously don't understand ya feckin gowl
@@dinkster1729 maybe ya missed the *occupied* counties elected sf for their 1st minister for the 1st time *ever?* that catholics have outnumbered protestants in norn iron for years now? that non-religious & other religions keep growing? that your husband's family's correct that "protestant irish" come from scottish settlers? ffs, wind yer neck in ya gowl
@@dinkster1729 To tell you the truth it was not much different for pregnant unmarried women in Protestant countries.
@@iseultbourke4692 True! Mothers, if they were very young, were pretty well forced to give up their baby since welfare rates were so low and few would rent to a single mother. They were also forced into unwed mothers' homes until they gave birth and gave up their child. I've listened to some of these mothers stories and they are horrible. Giving up their child led to long-term depression and, sometimes, they had accidents that caused life-altering injuries. Horrible stories, in fact.
If they denied being his parents, that’s a clear sign to me that they were involved in his murder. They would’ve said their newborn was abducted and they never knew what happened to him, if they were innocent. Them denying any knowledge is proof of guilt to me.
Not if he was given up for adoption. They would have thought he went to a "good home" to have a better life than they could give him.
@@dinkster1729but they denied having a baby in the first place. I didn’t hear them say they had a baby at that time that they gave up for adoption, did you? Denying they had a baby at all during that time = guilt.
@@Christophertracy09 They are covering something in their past up for sure. However, they stabbed their own baby 28 times and broke its neck? Then, they went on to live ordinary lives as if nothing had happened? A bit unusual to say the least.
@@dinkster1729there’s a lot of bad people in this world who commit awful acts of homicide and continue going about their life year after year, decade after decade. Hence the main point of this channel, which is cold cases. It’s hardly unusual at all.
@@Christophertracy09 this is all true, but i feel like intimidation from the killer themselves (or the garda, if the killer was one of their own) could result in the same behavior. safer to not assume, and let evidence reveal itself over the coming investigation
It always amazes me how it takes two people to make a baby, but the woman is always the one who pays the price. How about society holds these men who impregnate women and dash with the same contempt?
If those two people were not guilty to the murder of baby John then why didn't they come forward about his death? Why sit back and allow an innocent family go through what they went through? They are horrible people who not only refused to give their son a proper burial but also watched as a young woman and her family were brutally attacked on false accusations for years
While absolutely not an excuse, not wanting the vitriol and condemnation that was heaped on Joanne and her family to be redirected to themselves could definitely influence people to keep quiet. It's not right or fair, but I can understand it to an extent.
@@penguincpickles225 This happened 40 years ago, Baby Johns mother was in her 50's when questioned so she was anywhere between 10 and 19 when she gave birth. Her dad was a Guard powerful enough to keep her out of suspicions way. She was likely a victim of intimidation or worse herself.
@@eloradannen my thought exactly. people quick to levvy accusations of guilt towards his mother today are choosing to ignore how that same black and white thinking resulted in joann's ordeal
Baby John's mother was the young daughter of a cop. If she wasn't married, it's likely that her father controlled the entire situation. If he put her into an unwed mother's home her son would have been put up for adoption without her consent and she would have left the facility without him. If she gave birth at home, her father may have kiIIed and disposed of the baby. Cops back then were seen as good, morally upstanding, and trustworthy men. A pregnant teenage daughter would have ruined his career and reputation in the community. 40 years later, and we still don't know what happened but there are plenty of possibilities where the baby's parents aren't the guilty party.
Yeah. Imagine how many people sit quietly when they know they've heard something wrong.
80s ireland was such a different place. The catholic church thankfully has no longer its lethal grip. This case showed beliefs of the time. Hence horror stories like mother and baby homes and magdalene laundries. I remember this case, ann lovett..... i also know someone who was sent to a home in 1991!!!!!!
This is BS. It was because of the Church women had 6 months paid maternity leave, healthcare and University education in the 1980’s
aye, was barely a dozen years ago when Savita Halappanavar died due to the 8th amendment which still took another half dozen to repeal! it's mad the usa appears set to repeat ireland's hard lessons rather than learn from such relatively recent examples
@@r_and_a There are zero cases in the USA where law has caused this, doctor/medical neglect, yes, but examine the 'recent examples' and this has nothing to do with any law on the books....even the deceased loved ones have come out regarding the misinformation. I'd cite the medical reasons and complications, but YT would remove the comment.
@@kazamareenkurios8197 what are you banging on about? the "relatively recent examples" in both my reply & the op were all from *ireland* hence "it's mad the usa *appears* set to *repeat ireland's hard lessons"* so wind yer neck in ya gowl
@kazamareenkurios8197 does the word "Texas" mean anything to you? Pull your head out of your arse.
This whole episode infuriated me! Those police officers were disgusting, especially the one who would never apolgise even when proven wrong. And the fact that they haven't charged anyone in the death of baby John. They obviously don't want to progress the case since it will probably open another can of worms for themselves.
They have to figure out what happened to Baby John 40 years ago.
As someone who has lived in a couple of small towns in Ireland, I can tell you people are still incredibly narrow minded and behind the times. The schools are still church influenced, people saying they are not are lying. Hypocritical parents still spend a bomb on Communions. The ridiculous things educated Irish men have said to me about women's rights are sixty years behind developed mindsets. The family is still a weaponised concept. Remember divorce wasn't a thing before the 90's here. Abortion took so long to legalise, it was embarrassing.
I’m first Gen Italian. When I started my menstrual cycle my Nonna took me aside and said “and now you know…suffering is a woman’s lot.” I did social work for over 15 years and you know what? My Nonna was right.
Can you define what a woman is now though ?
And the rest of the world wants to drag women all over the planet back to the stone age where this shit belongs. Never been more glad to be this old, I've been a militant feminist all my life and right now I just cant look at men the same way, seriously. WTF is wrong with them?
This is all complete shite tho
I was with you up until abortion. Abortion is still murder and it's the innocent paying for their parents "crime".....
I love the hypocrisy. Okay for males. How many of these cops had sex outside of marriage and it was okay because they didn't get pregnant? The males she had sex with should have had to detail the loss of their virginity too. I am so fed up with double standards. The church is a hypocrite, one of many reasons I stopped believing in religion. Just a way of controlling women.
So much evil has occurred because of the Catholic Church!
I'm sorry, It's NOT okay for males, this kind of hypocrisy is repugnant to me, and yes I waited until my wedding night.
Mother and baby homes were, for the women who were imprisoned there, something in between a jail and a work-camp. They were not allowed to leave without the approval of the religious authorities, even though they had not been found guilty of any crime. They were also treated as slaves and forced to work for free in laundries and other enterprises which generated a lot of money for the church, which had an incentive to keep them locked up. Many of the children were sold. There were also Protestant Baby and Mother homes in the North. It is no surprise that Irish girls and women would do anything to keep themselves safe from that system.
Having a child out of wed lock shameful, preventing a pregnancy shameful, ending a pregnancy shameful.Have a miscarriage shameful. None of these should be shameful, pregnancy happens rather planned or not.
And, pregnancy/babies cannot happen without a man fullstop. Nowadays it's possible yes if you really want a baby a woman can do this via insemination of a different kind. But back then, never. 👀
1 in 5 pregnancies ends in miscarriages: God's little abortions.
Gods apparently a fan, its his cohorts trying to get money from you that pretend it's something to be ashamed of.
One of the many reasons most of us who aren't sociopaths have figured out we do not actually have to have a threat of some magical man floating in the clouds to just act like decent human beings.
What a heartbreaking story. And once again, brutal murder unsolved for years/decades just because the perpetrator was connected to someone within the law enforcement. Those disgusting policemen abused their power to cover up such a horrible crime. And the cover up goes of course further up. Poor child. RIP baby John. Huge respect to Mr. Tom (RIP) and his family for taking care of the little angel and his final resting place. Very sad but well done video, thanks for sharing.
People everywhere need science based sex education and access to reliable birth control. Period.
Final answer
People all through America have an abundance of access to birth control and prophylactics and yet still fail to use them, and demand abortions.
You can give people all the tools in the world and they will still make poor choices and demand freedom from accountability for their actions.
Three cheers for this answer!! I went to a private Christian school and we had very realistic and honest sex education. They pointed out the only way to prevent all these issues is to not have sex, but they also told us how to do it safely if we were going to do it. None of the kids in my class had kids before they were adults, which is unusual for the area. Seeing as the only other local school, a public one, actually had a *in-school daycare* for the children of the children of that school. Because teen pregnancy was such a huge issue in the area, and they figured to keep these kids in school at all they have to provide care for _their_ kids. Really sad situation, they should have tried sex education! It worked for us!
Abusers NEED censorship.
who tf could do that to a baby? and then continue the abuse by defiling his resting place? 🤬
My grandmother wasn't yet 15 when she gave birth to a child, my father. The local Catholic church relocated her to a district beyond her home. Tere she served in the convent as a scullery maid , washer woman . Whilst the Catholic school they ran ,brought up my father until aged 16, He was a good scholar and choir boy , and believed he had a call on his life to become a Priest , When he applied for this vocation, he was told, You cannot, as you, are a bustard, You do not qualify. HE LEFT THE CHURCH from that moment on. Because he was in church custody, I have often wondered if he was a child of the local Priest. , Catholic church hierarchy do very strange things , He grew up ,in Mary Magdalene Convent school , South Island ,NZ. God Bless all ❤❤❤
It seems the church has caused more harm than good.
AMEN! 😉
⚛️♥️♾️
Glad people are realizing this
Absolutely and always. Religion is nothing more than a control tactic and a way to fleece the citizens.
Why? Because the church is trying to teach each generation, that the next generation is important to every society? Seems the justice system is responsible for investigations, and trials. Where does the church come into DNA testing, or the garda blaming anyone for a dead child?
As usual
I missed your channel! You share really interesting cases. 😊
I am almost never speechless, but after the Tribunal stated that she was basically totally responsible for the affair because she was pretty much *insisting* on giving the guy sexual favors had my mind just... blank.
The police were really out to get this woman and her family. Really horrific.
Horrific treatment of women.
Was the same everywhere in the 1950’s.
Agreed. Apparently here in the States, we want it that way.
@LotsofLisa It will be like the 1800's under the new regime. So much misery on the horizon.
@ruthmusser
You have and will not lose your right to murder babies. Abortion is still provided. No one is banning abortions. Stop be so dramatic.
@lotsoflisa
Don't be so dramatic. There is and will never be a ban on abortion. You will lose no rights whatsoever.
Excellent coverage of this heartbreaking story. 💔
Ya…cuz saying “I’m sorry” totally erases years and years of trauma. Wow. This is disgusting. And if you cannot find it within yourself to feel bad about how you put someone’s entire life and was laid bare to the public, you’re a monster. You cannot have it both ways. You can’t be “prolife” but then chastise a woman for becoming pregnant when they aren’t given the correct information to prevent pregnancies other than “don’t have sex”. Because you’re also essentially saying “don’t get r*ped.” Maybe tell that to the priests.
Having given birth to 4 boys and losing a sibling as a child, I cannot imagine staying silent after giving birth to other children who lived full lives. Poor baby John.
Thank you for your compassionate, dignified and intelligent coverage of this tragic case without the dramatic music and melodramatic cliche ridden rubbish which is far too common on crime channels, particularly those from the USA. I'm so impressed that I've subscribed and as an admitted youtube addict, you're the first channel for which I've done so: looking forward to receiving what else you have to offer.
I can’t believe no one has been arrested!!!! They should have been questioned by now.
Probably a relative of a politician did this like in the JoJo dulland case and like Mary Boyle in Donegal
If they had put half so much energy into finding that babies Killers as they did into vilifying that woman for absolutely no reason, they probably could have solved the case
Sounds like they know, or have a good idea, and don’t want to say. The fact that the mother is a relative of law enforcement - and law enforcement, refuses, even now to apologize for their behavior means some in law enforcement 1. At best, suppressed evidence, or 2. At worst, is directly involved. And 3. Since they are still dragging their feet, it’s A. Powerful connections, and/or B. Again, directly involved. If it was the grand-parents, maybe they are waiting for them to die - rather than deal with the reputational injury to law enforcement - or the next generation in the family is also powerful and no one wants to deal with that.
This reminded me of the horrific institutional abuses by the Irish Catholic church which were portrayed in the movie "In the Name of God." It absolutely shocked me that such barbarous abuse could have been carried on in a western European country until 1996.
I wonder if the males who impregnate the females are also disowned by their families and communities? 🤔
Notice all the men judging the young woman? I wonder if they understand how a pregnancy occurs? I wonder if the married man who repeatedly impregnated her was held to account for his actions?
Abusers often don't find legit excuses for abuse. But when Abusers find eachother it's always bad for their victims.
Id orefer a bully of an abuser any day. Bullies are singular and typically don't get along with other bullies.
Abusers form little groups. And hier their friends.
I believe after the first vandalized headstone was found, security cameras would have been installed.
Wow, never knew I would learn about this terrible murder and that my late uncle Tom Cournane looked after baby John, my lovely cousin, Catherine carried the coffin. What a tragedy for baby and the awful treatment of Joanne Hayes.
Your uncle sounds like he was a wonderful human being. I have no doubt he is in the summer lands now where he is being thanked by each and every one of the Tuatha de Dannan for his kindness and compassion towards Baby John for he truly showed what it means to be a person of compassion. I think the biological father of Baby John should face punishment for his actions and have his name posted everywhere as a reminder of what your actions lead to. More often it is the female who is shamed and blamed for her actions when in reality the father is as much to blame especially if the conception was caused by SA, incest and or domestic abuse.
I think this is your best so far. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to those who can no longer speak for themselves.
Can we all agree, on how much of a COOL DUDE Tom was?! If only there were many, many more of this type of people in this world, what a better place this world would be!! Take note, PLEASE! We all appreciate you, Tom-even those all the way out here in the San Francisco Bay Area, California! Tom and Baby John will never be forgotten🤗 To those who would desecrate any gravesite….but a baby’s? If you can’t stand yourselves by now, there’s MANY that will do it for you, because you are a total waste of space, 🤮
This case is wild. The cops will never admit they’re prejudiced misogynistic lazy POS.
baby john's parents need to explain.... and also for their seeming willingness to let that poor lady get nailed for a murder she had nothing to do with.... one also wonders how that sibling of baby john feels
Not finished yet but the treatment of Joanne infuriates me to no end. Hard to believe that this happened in the 1980ies and not the 1880ies.
This is one of the best researched pieces I've seen in quite some time, well done!
Your research & work on this case is fantastic. Well done!
What kind of monster destroys the headstone of an infant???
I remember hearing about this. Some aspects of the world have not gotten better
It's sickening the way they treated women and children, all because of religion.
Don’t forget religion was created by man not a woman… To control the masses and keep women suppressed. Right from the beginning everything bad was a women’s fault .
@@SLD-bz9so Oh yes it is.
@@godfreypigotthave you tried them all?
@@bobbierobinson6269 I've been exposed to most of them in one form or another. All Abrahamic religions are certainly twisted. I don't see any point in "trying" any, except perhaps Pastafarianism. My colander might actually get some use then.
@@godfreypigott maybe you should try a psychologist.
What kind of hateful person would desecrate the grave of a dead baby? How evil do you have to be?
Painful to watch this. I understand all Michelle says. With that, I'll say, laws made by men, regarding pregnancy,, for political support should never be considered.
@@huntlife if that's the case women should have no say about 90% of everything else that pertains to men in society ..Perhaps women can go fight in wars
Beautifully narrated.
Wonderful - didn't know about the updates. The garde having everyone sit in limbo, because of retirements, seems to be hard on everyone including the accused. They should get on with it, so people can get on with their lives.
I really hope some of these Garda officers are still alive and see how evil they were to this woman. I am taken no excuses for their behaviour they were evil men. 😊
DNA doesn’t lie.
But it can have errors, contamination or be misread.
@GoBlueGirl78 highly unlikely
@@camicoz How long have you been working in genetics?
They could be switched or mishandled as in other cases!
thank you hc
thank you so much!
And not a word against the men impregnating these “fallen” women…ugh. I got pregnant at 19 in the early 1980s in the USA, & the shame foisted on me was nearly unbearable. Of course nothing happened to the father.
May baby John rest in peace, and the lovely man who ensured a resting place for John, the only shining example of humanity in this dreadful saga. There could never be any excuse for such savagery towards an innocent baby, or any possible excuse for the wilful blaming of Joanne Hayes, someone killed that baby, that someone or persons also allowed an innocent woman carry the blame. Utterly vile and contemptible, monsters masquerading as human. Baby John is the ultimate victim in the whole story, may justice soon be served for him.
Shocking treatment of JoAnne! It’s like putting a sexual assault victim on the stand and saying she deserveď the assault because of how she dressed.
To say that this makes me seethe is an understatement. Crazy as F! The Garda, the courts, the MF'ing church, and the entire backwards country, makes me sick and they deserve 10X that settlement.
What the hell. Draconian treatment of a grieving woman. Philistines
Coppers and Catholicism is rarely a good mix
Thanks!
thank you for your support!
Missed you! Just thinking about you over the weekend. I just love your work.
Did Baby John's killer(s), or even whom we now know to be his family, vandalize his grave all those times?
Who attacks a baby's grave, not an ounce of humanity. The man that named baby John and watched his grave until his passing is truly a kind soul. What a traumatic event for everyone involved 💔
The garda: We didn't couldn't have *possibly* psychologically tortured a grieving mother of a miscarried child! No, instead she had an incredibly rare and actually impossible set of twins!
I'm glad that Baby John is at peace & free of pain & the evilness of this world
This family could never be compensated for what these authorities put them through. Such stupid and ignorant people to treat anyone like this
The double standards and impossible situations women were put in, sex is not worth all this. Not for females.
RIP Little Angel John 🙏🙏🙏
Unfortunately, it’s never a doll or mannequin. It’s your brain trying to rationalize and protect you from the most horrendous things ever.
Well, it’s not like the instances of people finding dolls or mannequins are reported or recorded. But I think one of the main reasons people think that is because bodies get very stiff and pale after death. They often times don’t immediately look like “real” anymore.
It's horrible that from the get go this wasn't an attempt to find the resemblance of justice, but to simply punish a woman, any woman, to dare to have sex. The baby wasn't just a victim of it's parents, but the church, the law makers and garda, who neither allowed his parents to prevent his conception, get an abortion or lastly receive help both alive and later dead.
RIP sweet baby boy. 🙏🙏🙏
HC I can only imagine how painful and upsetting it must’ve been for you to cover this story, both of baby John and the young woman who was pilloried For having babies out of wedlock and accused of being the mother and the murderer of baby John. I sincerely thank you for bringing this story to us with utmost sensitivity, but at the same time with straightforward reporting of the harrowing details that seem more aligned with medieval times rather than relatively modern times. It was more like a witch hunt than a police inquiry. Your work shows such personal integrity. Thank you!
It's so nice to see that police corruption has stayed about the same since then. 🤬🤬🤬
As if women got pregnant all by themselves.
How sad and disgusting the times were towards women.
I'm here in the United States they are doing their best the Republican party to prevent women from having access two abortion even if it's going to cause death to the mother.
Even if the baby is only going to be born and live for a few moments.
And they usually know that immediately during the pregnancy that the baby will not survive afterbirth.
Also, what about conjoined twins who can't survive, if separated? What about babies who will develop horrible, crippling abnormalities and die young like those with muscular dystrophy or other purely genetic diseases? My husband has type 1 diabetes. He's had it for 46 years. The cost of treating this serious illness now is horrendous to prevent complications?. Should he have had 2 children? Should our daughter have had one? Should my husband's nephew have had 2 children? Some people do make the decision not to have children because of serious disease, perhaps, presenting itself. And some women will seek an abortion rather than risk having a child with type one diabetes.
Even if the prosecution was correct--- Why would she bury one twin on family property then desecrate the other & discard him like trash? How would she even have known that only one twin was her lover's & the other belonged to a random fling?? Most people don't even know this is technically possible. I'd think she'd assume BOTH babies belonged to one or the other man & have treated them in a similar fashion, tbh...
wow, money doesnt fix anything but Joanne should of been awarded something more in the multi millions range at the very kleast 36 million, a mil for every year they dragged this out
I was living in Ireland and was 17/18 when the Irish news was all about The Kerry Baby mystery/tribunal. I haven't heard mention of the case which I believed had been solved, for 40 years. This film is simply,astonishing to me - what a horrific sequence of events. I hope Joanne and her family are finally able to put it all behind them and that there will be justice for Baby John. Thank you. 💔💔💔
Good to hear your voice. Thanks, HC.
22:25 what a disgusting monster
First time your channel showed up on my feed, and I am pleasantly surprised and impressed. New sub 👍👊
Imagine being the kid that found out that baby John was your sibling.. that sounds so horrible, I honestly can't imagine the survivors guilt. Knowing you got to grow up and John didn't, and how the baby was found.. finding out what your parent/s could have done to you is a horrible feeling I'm sure. I hope they're doing okay, I hope they find peace, and that baby John gets justice soon, poor thing deserved it a while ago.
You have my absolute favorite voice of any TH-camr.
About 1/4 of the way through and I CANT WATCH ANY MORE. The COPS are the most heinous humans I have ever heard of. The forced everything - the lies they not only made up but forced others to live those lies is BEYOND some of the worst cop/public crimes I have ever heard of. I thought the Irish including the cops were happy go lucky nice people (apart from those involved in all that Northern Ireland vs the other Ireland Rubbish that went on for years.) Hell I wanted my ancestors to be Irish criminals sent to Botany Bay & was so disappointed when I found out I had no Irish heritage BUT THIS story has me rethinking that.
My sympathy to Joanne and her family, what a terrible thing that they were accused of. Shame on Baby Johns biological family for their actions that caused his death and allowed Joanne to be publicly persecuted for years. I hope that both baby John and baby Shane are in the care of the angels and resting in Peace
The Gardai took multiple "huge leaps" in relation to Joanne. This whole story is foul and unjust.
I'm from Ireland and remember when this happened, it was a terrible case for all involved and sadly no justice for Baby John who's only crime was being born.
12:17 I rarely ever cannot finish a case, but this is infuriating.
Darn means the mother of the child was no more than 14-18 when she had her. Her family being a member of the garda would have expedited the case against Joanne in attempts to hide his own involvement. I cant see a mother who unalived her child marrying and having more children with him after such a tragedy. I believe she was probably 15 years old. The baby taken from her as she slept. And a family member directly linked to the garda stole her baby and unalived it. I had a feeling it was Joanne's mom who unalived her, but it was probably both parents of the mother. Only breaking the neck after 28 stabbes didn't unalive him by both gmom(knife) and gdad(force). The mother coukdve been told the baby was given to a family. And never imagined that the infamous baby john was hers. What a tragedy. That poor poor baby. And I literally broke out in tears over that sweet undertaker. He looked like a real cheeky type sweetheart that only wanted to do the right thing. And his children following his legacy some 40 years later proves he was just that. But you gotta be a real piece of work to destroy a headstone. My guess is the undertaker knew exactly who did it. And him being a member of the garda or retired by then couldn't do a thing. Your stories always tugs at my heart strings lady! It's why I stay subscribed. Thank you!
Total police cover up, it all becomes crystal clear once the bio mother was revealed.
Poor woman! Can't help but wonder if this is the direction the US is headed for in 2025. Shameful.
Orange man bad !
Do you have any idea how many forms of birth control are available in the USA? How many women have been treated like this in a court of law?
@@bobbierobinson6269 Birth control does on occasion fail. Miss Hayes wasn't being tried. She was only giving testimony. Did she have a lawyer? Surely he/she should have said, "I object to this line of questioning because it's irrelevant." Some men are very strange in their attitudes.
@@dinkster1729 I'm a woman and can't understand abortion as birth control. Then again I take responsibility for my actions.
This case just set a fire in me.. omg
The way this woman was treated makes me sick 🤢
The grave marker being distroyed is absolutely horrendous. The fact he was taken is not enough?
Seems they were/are more concerned in the one ladies affair more then solving the original death.
I thought the U.S. had some messed up authorites.