Hello from the USA! I don't know if you'll read this comment, but I would like to add my thoughts as I have been focused on MANY aspects of communal living for the majority of my life @ 45 years of age at this point. Firstly, I would like to say, that especially in the USA, there is a lot working against communal ideals just in public opinion, and that manipulates what people's expectations are when they choose to look into such a thing. I drove 18 wheels all over the USA with a hope to find something more communal that could work well for me, and I could finally settle. I lived in the Philippines for a year, and I like how they had a much more neighborly design than the USA. Yet, I have only my driving skills to offer which wouldn't be enough to keep me in the Philippines so now I am back in the USA. I'm sure much of what I have to say would sound redundant to you, but I've observed infrastructure everywhere very closely with the thoughts of communal living in mind. While there aren't really all that many intentional communities readily available for someone such as myself, I've taken special interest in things such as metro cities, RV parks, campgrounds, and people who do jobs such as working on a cruise ship. There are a lot of middle of the road ideas which share many principles of communal living yet rely 100% on capitalism. Some RV parks for instance, have a large community center where they will have a lounge, gym, a place to play games, and for people to meet on Sundays to have their own little worship service etc. Getting people connected opens up a lot of potential for sharing, all on its own, without even changing capitalist infrastructure. One idea I've had that I would like to share with you is in how to make capitalist infrastructure slowly benefit from the positive aspects of communal sharing and living. Think about what a library is. It is a place where you can go get a card, and as long as you return items responsibly, you can check them out and use them while paying literally nothing. Angry Capitalist on social media at the idea of social responsibility fail to realize that they've actually utilized such things in their life without hesitation. The painful reality for some people is that the reason they can have a lot more than their work is worth (though they may refute this) is because someone must work for less and to be a much better value to the design. Yet, the way we expect things to grow in a capitalist environment, the people of good value are being DEMANDED by these hard-hitting capitalists to be an even greater value so that those who are "blessed" as they call it can continue to be so and more so. It starts to create a lot of holes in the angle of faith they've successfully gotten nearly everyone on board with. Now, consider if we build something like a library that offers a lot more to be checked out than books... The problem with promoting self-reliance, doing everything for yourself, getting as much as you can, and working hard to own things for yourself is that we now have way too much stuff, and most of it slowly goes to waste with very little use. Consider kayaks for a moment. I like kayaking, and I own two of them. Last year I put one of them in the water once. yet, there are so many Kayaks in the USA owned by people, that if we could just convince people somehow to donate 10% of them so that they can be placed at every kayak launch point, at every lake or river in the USA, to be checked out by responsible people, then it'd probably be too many and we'd have to send some of them back! It is not unusual for people to find ways to live communally and minimize waste. Assuming that the reason people have advanced is because of how hard we make everyone work by keeping things excessive enough to make most people desperate to get ahead is very farfetched. I do believe that more useful advancements would be made if people were working for that purpose rather than for the purpose of capitalisms survival. Mass production would still exist, but on a different level. Quality would quickly become more important than quantity and people would be motivated by quality sharing. Granted, liberty should still remain intact, and all of these things must remain optional. However, I believe strongly that most people would agree to join in on such a design as they see the benefits AND potential. Really, when people are living efficiently with both a strong respect for quality leisure time, and good work ethic, there are millions of ways we can design society, and there will be a lot of options as to what KIND of community you want to live in, and just about anywhere in the country, or the world?. Utilizing all available resources, the same idea could appear in unlimited different forms. People could make a commune look like a Disney resort, or they could choose primitive camping. It really just comes down to the desire to reduce waste and live better by sharing, while understanding the energy and effort that will still be required to do so (which would generally be far less than what is currently required of people). All of those other problems such as relationships, religious beliefs, etc. would be worked out no differently than in any other design. Capitalism has proven to be really bad for marriage, relationships, and infidelity all on its own, so I doubt those problems would be any worse to say the least. However, when people are very open to each other, congregate and talk about solutions as a team, it should really lead to a better situation than where people are just building walls to keep other people out. Forgiveness is meant to heal, not to excuse. We should be very forgiving once we've made it clear that this is the purpose of forgiveness. Forgiveness should come with understanding, answers, and solution. Make a sign of that in your community, and people could fix nearly anything. We are looking for ways to fix bad habits, not to condemn them. Exile is a last resort, communicating ways to heal a person that works for both them and everyone they associate with, then to keep these things from effecting future generations should always remain a part of our life.
This was such an absolutely excellent comment, and such great information. Thank you for taking the time to type that all out and share your wisdom. I love the bits about the obvious freedom of being able to opt in to society in this way, and about exile being a last resort. I have so many views that align so well with yours, but your own just expanded my perspective even further. Thank you again.
Thank you for this important information. I was drawn to this video because me and my wife are now leaving an intentional community because it turned out to be a narcissists honey trap where the lady who owns the land can mentally abuse families and it’s extremely sad that something so beautiful with such immense potential was simply abused like this. I get the feeling (from talking to others who’ve tried living in intentional communities) that poor conflict management and mental traumas are what causes these communities to simply collapse. Maybe communities should not be intentional but simply form organically and let to die naturally or else we are creating structures of self suppression (sugar coated in fake smiley happy people living on grassy green fields) as we act out roles and wear masks that are not aligned to our heart and soul and end up building something inauthentic.
Hello James, I’m sorry to hear that you and your wife have suffered from a situation like the one you describe. How to deal with property and consequently power struggles that arise from this is one of the most common issues when creating eco villages. It’s so important that everyone is on the same page and that there is clarity around these aspects. I hope that you can find a context where there is real mutual respect, or perhaps create something yourself 🙏🏻
Is it too much to ask here what happened? I have always dreamed of sharing the land I live I on with other families who share a vision of a village, but I am becoming apprehensive after listening to videos about so much conflict resolution.
@@CiaofCleburne the lady who owned the land had an idea about herself that didn’t match who she actually was, personally I think all relationships need to be authentic if they are to last or else they’ll just break down naturally due to being over tired from wearing a mask and that’s simply what happened. One poor guy was told by the lady who owned the land that he could use the land for his business of helping mentally disabled people to experience working on the land in a beautiful space, after months of hard work (nearly a year) in preparing the land for this beautiful little business the lady then simply changed her mind because she thought the guy was too easy going. Basically she kept changing her mind with what was ok and not ok and she even told the families she was a higher priority than their own children. If the owner has their shit together and is not a grandiose psychopath then the community might have a chance of working together (personally no one individual owner is best as there is equal power amongst the people and they can simply discuss matters amongst themselves, plus with having people who are good listeners and sound of mind is a massive help).
@@jamesskinnercouk ok. I understand. This is valuable insight to me a d I really appreciate you giving me the time to answer my question. I wish you and your SO the very best in whatever endeavors you seek in the future. 😊
While I don't believe I would enjoy living in a community like this myself, I am glad these communities exist and would encourage anyone who is disenchanted with Capitalism to explore this alternative lifestyle. I also encourage community leaders to be more accepting of these sub-communities. Freedom is important to man's life, and the freedom to live as one chooses without intentionally causing harm to others should be a fundamental right.
I don't think you necessarily have to check out of having normal jobs too and join the community. Like the general goals of shared meals, cutting costs of daily living and just having people you can trust and interact with makes it more than worth it whilst not having to worry about money as much as the necessities are pooled together and are there for everyone. It's a system of living where humans go back to their roots and work together and solve a huge issue in social isolation and economic disadvantages. I do happen to be an anarcho-communist but capital will never go away as long as scarcity is a thing and their also will be needs and wants. But you can limit the harm that economic disparity causes my purposes restricting what the maximum income is and putting any excess into a shared wants and needs pool if you make too much to support others.
❤ I wholeheartedly agree! I’m too introverted, independent and often too misunderstood to be accepted in one of these communities but I LOVE that they exist and would fight for them.
@@hfortenberry I would include both introverts & extroverts into my community. For me that is not an issues. The issue for me are takers, people who impose, unrealistic exceptions, disrespectful & more!
I live in an area (in Australia) which has vary many intentional communities of all kinds. One of the biggest challenges I've observed is that we are products of modern individualistic culture and despite recognizing the failings of that culture, when under pressure (such as seemingly unresolvable conflict) most default to that programming (effectively putting a "fence around their plot") On the whole, we have not grown up with a tribal 'council of elders, who might adjudicate final decisions with the wisdom of experience, or are prepared to forgo our particular positions for the good of the collective. As re your first point, too often, we might agree that current lifestyles are failing us and wish to create better (and everyone may have a different idea of what that looks like) but the common 'vision' to which we're dedicated to creating is not clear enough.
Very good points. What you mention about the Wisdom/experience piece is vital. What I disagree with in the video is the “everyone equal” part - it’s a nice ideal but the reality some people are better at handling certain pieces than others and it comes down to whether any person in a position of superior ownership or leadership in some way is equally as sacrificing and impersonal and group-oriented in their overall maturity equal to the power they wield…
People with disabilities have often learned to be more inter-dependent as a matter of survival. It would be a good idea to include them in conversations about "how to work with others"
This video should be a prerequisite for all who wish to attempt such an endeavour. I have lived very near to a Land-Trust for 11 years now. It is an absolute nightmare due to the founder's belief of "No Ands, Ifs or Buts". And by welcoming everyone, he ended-up getting 90% takers, conflicts, high turnover rate and more! I came across this video that was as if recorded by myself, lol, when searching for intentional communities, as I am currently attempting to start one in New Brunswick, Canada.
I've lived in communities, am an Architect, Builder and LEED AP also a dedicated spiritualist - so have seen this from all sides. Celastrina has done an excellent job of hitting all the points that I have also talked to others who have come to me for advice about building community for many years. The Key Three for me are always location (One person wants ocean, one the mountain another the forests), Vision statement with all resolution paths and rules cleared spell out and Economics - as she pointed out we are under this system whether you like it or not and just buying a piece of land is only the beginning. Great Job of Putting this together!!
Wow.. what a video. This video creator has created an amazing resource for anyone thinking about intentional communities. She is so articulate and eloquent. The structure and delivery of the information is fantastic; I'm lost for words. She started of with an abstract concept and then brought it back to her experience. Well done.. amazing video.
Very deep study you have done on the subject. In India we found there is no legal structure for such villages. /communities. Creating Constitution is very important part of creating community.
Nice to see your awareness. Only two lovers destroyed our cause. Then there was the silent predator, hitting on members.-- and those 'no intention' members who sabotaged every move. I was a Member at Braziers with Norman and Glyn and also used to visit Minstead Lodge. Fircroft College fulfilled some of the criteria.
Such a comprehensive and refreshing honest view on these elements of community that are so vital to their existence but are so infrequently talked about
Wow, Celastrina, your insights and overall presentation, is brilliant. Thank you for sharing! You could save people a lot of unnecessary suffering if they would simply heed your counsel. You could also do reviews on successful eco villages/communities as well to provide examples of how they've succeeded. 😊💙
Thanks so much Celastrina; That was very enlightening and you hit the nail on the head with working together with modern society. I noticed that in intentional communities people involved often have a higher vision that see things black and white towards traditional society: It HAS to be off-grid, it HAS to be collective, it HAS to be ecological, it HAS to be political or it HAS to have everyone contribute. Which complicates things and sets things up to be unpractical. Rejecting all what has modern society has brought , you also reject that great things that have come with it; science, architecture, education, resources, trade, technology, healthcare, hygiene, energy. The irony is that many intentional communities have borrowed the inventions and know-how to make their living possible. Which is a shame because right now we are so technologically advanced that good, comfortable, social community living is possible. As long as we accept that using the modern system to an extent is perfectly fine! Let's call it semi-off grid or dense grid living; That makes it possible to live with people you share a connection with, to have a healthy carbon-foot print and provide a living which makes us be almost independent from this unstable global hyperconnected system.
Thanks for sharing. Here at LooseNatural farm in Andalusia Spain we found that most people only change their minds when they die. We western people really struggle with group identity. Next to us is an opportunity to buy 12ha with 12 different ground papers. I really wish that people can share more. Wishing you the best.
At our place, Bogata Suma croatia, we have been underway 14 years now to create a community. Many people come and go. We do experience all the differences and also how to point to instant quality that come directly when a small group of volunteers come together. Usually the energy of the start is the right energy. Everybody is new to each other. Using that first moment and maintaining that quality while getting things done is a challenge. Fascinating for me and Barbar anyhow. Thank you Celestrina for putting your view in a number of points. Without a system people agree to as part of a group instead of necessarily maintaining individuality might be a direction. A good combination of 'my way' to 'group way' can create well woven initiatives.
I am so happy to have discovered Celastrina's videos. She is eloquent and thorough in her presentations. She is the first person who has enabled me to clearly understand the hows and whys of my own personal experience living in an intentional community.
Celastrina, I came across this video one year ago before moving to an ecovillage, and at that time, I didn't take it seriously. One year later, I watched it again, it's just so relevant and relatable, I guess these problems along with the others are quite universal in many ecovillages or communities. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, I know that all these are earned with tear and sweat... please keep sharing with us, because even with all the challenges, it may be one of a few solutions existing that could bring us out of rat race.
...so well done, put together and explained, Celastrina 💖 I live now for about 25 years in the Findhorn eco-Community in Scotland, and I can relate to all points on your list, and see, where we're doing well, and where not so much... especially in the aftermath of the lock-down, we are struggling to get on our feet in new ways (our main income was strongly related to guests/workshops, and with the interruption of people traveling + significant raise of living costs, we did financially break down)... work in progress 🌈 PS. tonight we have a community meeting, and in the invitation message our admin set this video as a recommendation to watch before attending! After watching it, I added it also to other social media of our community, and to my own global network... 🌍
Dear Jorn, thank you so much for reaching out and sharing this story, I highly admire Findhorn so it's an honour that you guys are watching my videos and find them valuable! I hope to come visit some day :) Say hi to everybody and you're doing a great job!!! 😀
Thank you so much! My husband and I are in the stage of contemplating challenges of our future intentional community. This video is awesome as a summary! I subbed and will watch more of your content! ❤
Thank you for this great video and all the interesting points you raised.my grandfather lived in Woodstock and wrote about the beatnik and hippy mouvement. I love the idea of communal living but I wonder how practical it really is. First of all although I live in an old farm house and have planted many trees in a small ecological gesture and are 17:5117:5117:51 about 70-80 percent self sufficient in terms of vegetable production ( we are veggies)yet we consume electricity and water so we are part of the capitalist system of production. We use no pesticides and yet we have a car and although we drive as little as possible we still have a carbon footprint. I have noticed that when we have guests although we love interacting with them we are most often relived when they leave because we need our own space. One guest recently was lazy and never helped with the dishes or cooking and I found this annoying.
In terms of idealism and communal living I wonder whether the natural fragility greed and invidious nature of man does not make shared living and whether Hobbes and Machiavelli didn’t have a point about the immutable struggles that arise between men. our higher goal is ecological living respect for the earth and animals but we have to be careful not to appear patronizing towards the local farmers. What do you think of the idea that idealistic people tend to be self righteous thereby robbing themselves and perhaps others of modesty and true virtue? Some people I meet are all on fire for great moral causes like saving the whale but they would be the first to lecture you and find fault with you if you might not share all their points of view and push comes to shove they would be the first to leave a boot print on your face stampeding you to get to a life boat when the ship springs a leak.
Seems to me a year is nothing. People take longer than that just to unload their baggage and start being the version of themselves to be in community. It's not like any other Role we are asked to play. Not leading or following, not uncaring, but not super-attached to the minutiae of how things work out, not putting self first, but not last either. Roles take a while to gel, continuing to respond to each other. Our community has 5 people, my wife and I and 3 younger people. We are all 'becoming ourselves' yet, learning new skills for dealing with Community. But a year is not enough time for the adjustment. Having too many other good options too easily at hand may actually work against community.
A year is a short duration. It took me a year just to feel and adjust to the seasonal changes that, having lived in a city before, I really didn’t notice other than temperature change. Living in the middle of an old forest, seasonal changes are intense and at time, nearly overwhelm an unsettled mind. I learned to relax and just go with the flow after 3 years.
That perennial conflict: the good of the collective and the freedom of the individual. Hell of a problem. But one worth working on. Suicidal hyper-individualist capitalism wasn't built on the first try either 😊
Thank you for your honest Feedback about Intentional communties. So helpful! Could you also share your List of biggest advantages of Living in an Intentional community? Also what is an ideal Group size for a community out of your perspective?
Lived in community for 15 yrs. It's not just a matter of what 'works' and what doesn't. It's far more complex than that. With a large community (East Wind is a good example): EW both works and doesn't. The community continues to exist because it produces income and always has enough people coming through the turnstile to keep the money coming in. The social problems at EW are huge and have never been resolved -- despite some effort to do so. When you can't stand it anymore, you just leave, and someone else is always waiting to take your place. The best example of a larger community that actually works well is Findhorn. That community is a model for intentional community. Another example of intentional community that tried its best to work, but ultimately failed, is The Farm in Tennessee ... existed for many years but had too many flaws. What works? One might think it's commonality of purpose, but it's more important for purpose to be realistic and achievable. Pie in the sky doesn't work. And that's just ONE issue. There are dozens. It's all very complicated -- because human beings themselves are complicated. Everyone defines 'realistic and achievable' in their own way. No one thinks their silly ideas are just fantasies; they will insist the community should do what THEY SAY because their vision is the correct one. "We must live simply so others can simply live" is often taken as gospel -- whether it is actually true or not. Everyone has their own internal Holy Scripture, and they expect YOU to have respect for it, whether it makes sense or not. There are dozens of such issues floating around like ghosts in most communities. And those issues are mostly not resolvable. As Kat Kinkade used to say (over and over in fact) is "people have voted with their feet." Kat's solution? Keep new feet coming in.
Thank you so much for your effort. I appreciate the work you do for unravelling a lot of myths and believes and misunderstandings around communities. I will definitely check out some of your other videos and recommend your channel to others, who likely will need to get inspired by the things you share as well!
Like others, looking forward to the conflict resolution video. Listening to your list so many of the problems you speak of resemble those of wider society at a different scale. One wonders if these communities are reinventing the wheel?
(I realize it is odd for me to comment here, but I was reviewing videos to send to my English learners and the topic of sustainability has been coming up lately.) :) Very interesting video. I have no intention of joining an intentional community because I don't have a lot of valuable skills for a group and generally am a loner, so I anticipated a lot of the potential for interpersonal conflicts mentioned here. I am very much someone who would've been some kind of outcast just a few hundred years ago. :) However, I think these communities could be a great option for people who do get along in groups as long as there is a set guiding principle, as you mentioned, especially once it becomes more clear how fragile all our systems are. That's the real heartbreak for me: I see the widening cracks in the late-stage capitalism. I am part of the Precariat. I think it's beyond unethical the way developers continue to build fast, cheap, ugly housing while cutting down far too many trees in the process, and the result is still too expensive for working people and perpetuates unsustainable living practices. This is all the more troubling because neither my SO nor I are ever going to be able to retreat to a cabin in the woods to avoid group conflict.
Never say never. I retreated to a literal cabin in the woods. It can be done as long as you keep it in your heart and never close your mind off to manifesting what you really want. Now I am on 17 acres of old forest and yearn to open it up to others seeking nature and yes, I have to admit, capturing the tourist dollar that travels by here, but also to open up trails of old, fabulous trees that beckon families to stop, let the kiddos stretch their legs, and educate while strolling thru. It can be done. Never say never!!
Thank you, I always appreciate honesty! While I admire people that are willing to try something different, upon visiting an ecovillage, I quickly realized it wasn’t for me. Makes me wonder about other arrangements that might offer enhanced opportunities for reduced consumption, home production, tool sharing, and other efficiencies while maintaining more autonomy. Have you come across anything you would consider ecovillage “light”?
Wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing this. I wonder if it, or any of your videos are available in Italian, as I would like to share them with a group that is currently working to create a new intentional community in another part of Italy.
I think that -- I think that all communities are retirement communities: People join community because they want to go deep, and in going deep time passes, and as time passes people become old, and when people become old they retire, so the people that they went deep with, are now all retired together. For a community to go beyond its source generation, it needs to focus on being something more than a community: It needs to focus on being a lineage. And being a lineage means looking beyond the people you know and your relationships; it means intimately relating with people who are NOT your community.
I think this is such an interesting topic and very true. I feel like some people are unaware that they are subconciously being too self-centered (even if they are empathic people who care about the world). Realizing you will grow old, fast, and need to be the elder to the new younger generations, who can keep building on your knowledge and legacy and will continue to live and change. But to establish a system of ‘transfer’ of the way of living to ‘newcomers’ and younger generations is vital for the survival of any species, so also for an intentional living community. I think people are putting so much time and effort into creating the life they want and envision, that they forget they will die, and it will die with them if they don’t actively become the elders that have an active role and connection to the whole of the community and young people. ❤
Great coverage of the topic. I'm left wondering what tactics you would prescribe for recruitment and conflict resolution. Do you have any more videos that dive deeper into these subjects?
Amazing. Clear. Educational. Does anyone knows intentional communities that are looking for new members? I would be interested in the higher Vision that you guys set for yourself. You said you created an intentional Community with 8 other People. If you want to share that, it would be really interesting:) Much Lovee!
Thank you Tim! :) i think many intentional communities are looking for new members, you can look at different ones on the website of GEN or also join groups of intentional communities on facebook. Yes, we've created a village that is a part of the bigger intentional community we're living in. Damanhur is a federation of communities that we as a group that have built the new village are a part of. You can watch the video "we built an eco village" on my channel for more information of the project :)
The foundation for intentional communities, has a searchable database for you just put in the town or state or country you want to live in and you will receive a listing of communities in that geographic region. Every time I have clicked on the page for a specific community, it has the information if it is accepting new members. It also has some basic information about the type of community. The listing will say, for example, whether the community is religious.
Excellent video and you are very well spoken. The issue about newcomers is interesting as I see a trend, where others need to bend down to them. Why can't newcomers recognize their true place in a new situation?
Hey Celastrina, thank you for this video. I spent a few weeks in Damanhur in 2019, what a beautiful place I'm really curious about all the tools you have for conflict resolution, and specifically play (you mentioned this 14:45). Did you end up making a video about this? I couldn't find it in the other ones. If you haven't, I'd love to watch it when you do :) Con te
Hello Nimrod, thank you for the comment! Yea I haven’t published it yet but it’s scheduled in the coming weeks, there’s a lot of curiosity around that :) thank you for watching! Con te
Thanks, looking forward to it. Meanwhile watching your videos, as I intend to start a community very soon in Portugal. All the best :) @@celastrinarebecka
Yes true attracts the weakest people who have no strength and drain others if u do not have any self confidence will only feel confident when leaning on others
Thank you for this video, I find it extremely interesting. I am on a journey of self discovering, I believe sooner or later I will experience how is life in an intentional community. I've got a question here: Do you think self development should be a basic and always present activity in the community? For instance organising workshops periodically which would help to maintain a certain level of serenity within the community before reaching the point of conflict? Is this happening in Damanhur? Welcome to hear from any other member of different communities 🙏
What is the biggest benefit to you in living in this community. That makes it worth it to balance all the things you stated? Thank you. I love this information so much! ❤
'Higher vision' is what I've been calling 'an organizing principle'. There has to be some reason that the community exists as a community. This gives it cohesion and identity. Otherwise, it's just individuals living in an area.
I’m part of a group that has a space in a shop that everyone can gather during certain hours. It feels like a social group but it’s called a tribe. There is talk of buying land and making a community. There are bylaws. I’m concerned that it will just be a trailer park in the woods. I have no volunteers for my garden though I offer plants, seeds and produce. A member of tribe is having surgery Wednesday and no one has volunteered to take care of her cats. I’m available 2x/wk to feed them at her house and change the litter box but literally no one else has stepped up. I’m having second thoughts about them. I want a community of people who grow food, raise animals and help each other. Few people are willing to step outside of themselves to help anyone with anything.
Thank your for this comment, I think sadly that we who are living in western countries are both longing for community and deep connections and at the same time we’ve been so out of tune from this that it takes effort to enter into the mindset of what that really means. Many tend to get very comfortable in their own bubble but still it creates loneliness. What I’ve seen is that often it takes some time to adjust and re-wire your behaviour and mindset to be more “community” aligned. What is required ofc is that people really want to, otherwise it becomes difficult. That’s why it’s best to start off with people who are passionate about the community project
Findhorn Foundation, in my view, was hit with 9 og the 10 canon balls you list. We were hit with differential pay for the ‘important jobs’, we spent a lot of money on paying for some members private housing, burn outs, lack of community building, decisions by trustees and board were handed down which was a brilliant way to defer conflicts, externals were hired in without going through ‘the school’ and given powers to decide. And when the armada of Covid arrived, 100 members were jettisoned. But the ship could no longer be kept afloat. I wish we had all seen your video 10 years ago.
Hai Celastrina, thank you for sharing your knowledge about eco villages. Our university in south kalimantan in Indonesia is starting to learn how to form an eco-community. Here, we have 1,268 villages that need to partner with our university. Could you help us share your knowledge, and discuss the successes and failures of intentional eco villages?
Hello Tomi, thank you for your request! I have replied to you via email 😊🙏🏻
4 หลายเดือนก่อน
They need to leverage technology and design and most importantly they need control of zoning more than anything so they can actually do what is possible.
Hello Rebecka. I appreciate your effort to disclose so much info about intentional communities. Why I can't download your videos here on TH-cam? If we as a family of 5, me , my wife and our three children want to live in an intentional community where would you recommend for us to go? Thank you very much
Thank you for your comment, I think that normally youtube videos aren't possible to download if not converted. There are so many different intentional communities out there so you should ask yourself some basic questions like: Do we prefer a big or small community? What language is preferred? What projects are important for us? These questions could help guide you to the right choice :) I wish you luck!
@Celastrina Rebecka thank you very much for your time. We can speak Romanian , english and Russian. Also we prefer a community where we can start without paying a big amount of money because we don't have right now. We come from the poor country Moldova 🇲🇩 . We also feel good listen to you. Maybe you can recommend to us a specific community in Europe because we can't travel elsewhere because we need visa. Maybe your community can help us to start . We are alone, can't find people with the same mind like ours, we love nature and don't do harm to others or nature but here people drink so much alcohol and are very agresive so our children don't have any opportunities...their future here is compromised..
Fantastic topic to bring up, that isn't talked about enough. I decided long ago to not do this with a community - I want like-minded neighbors, but an intentional community is just too much to handle, everything from land ownership to ideological differences to people's selfishness. I realized recently that the reasons these things almost always fail, is because I'd wager 95-98% of people in modern society never mature socially beyond puberty. We're a bunch of spoiled, selfish children, it's always "me me me". We can barely fathom how differently our ancestors functioned, when they lived in their tight-knit villages. Regarding sexuality and relationships in particular, and you mentioned jealousy and drama... perhaps this is why every culture up until our modern society a couple of generations ago, had such strict rules and morals regarding sex and relationships. If you lack these strict moral guidelines or rules, people's drive for sex and relationships wreak absolute havoc on a community. It's like fire, for a comparison. Fire is absolutely essential for our survival, and helps us when controlled and handled right, but let loose, it destroys everything. And as it turns out, and some of you will not want to hear this, but the people who have been pushing the sexual liberation movement for the past 50-100 years are virtually always themselves deeply sick, perverted people from a different tribe who want to destroy our society. The ones at the top don't believe they are here to liberate, they are here to destroy and revel in it.
Thanks for sharing valuable information. I am a PhD scholar, doing research on ecovillages and intentional communities. I wanna write about the failure and success aspects of these communities. Is there any way to speak to you? Thanks!
Cela: as a lovely open minded women, please try my books: Platinum Flowers, Selling Holes, Siamese Nation, Quantum Nipples and Titanium Sushi. These are the most original books on the planet (amazon kindle).
🤔 It is difficult to predict the future, but my mind goes to … what if society got real bad and family members want to join with parents, or siblings, etc and where do you draw the line with how many family/friends can be a part of your own individual holding during unexpected tough times??? ❗️I also wonder if civilization turns to chaos and marauders/thieves start to attack, what kind of view/action will be acceptable to protect the community??
I don't know why ,but I would like to join or live in a group I will say it's important for everyone to get there private space when they need it. Does anyone know where to find one
One formula does not fit all. Same can be said about intentional community . In my observation the 2 common styles are, one based on different properties built on a land that are individually owned. Second, one person or small group with money buy land, build and construct every thing on the land, people who move on the land do work trade to live on the land and share communal activities. Both can work and fail too. The key to any set up is that the ones that have lasted for decades are ones with strict and clear rules. They have trial period (few months) for any one who wants to live in the community, This is a good test if they are a good fit. With out order structure, clear rules the community will fail. If you have a strong visionary founder. That founder must plan a organized management committee to run the place once they are gone.
I used to live in a community of yellow frog impersonators, combine harvester wizards, hard rock earthworms and singing salads. It was wonderful until we all woke up...😅
The rule is these communities collapse bc its built by broken people who sre just looking for a shelter. Very few of these communities have experience in building sustainable small communities so the vast majority of these experiments are doomed to fail and create even more trauma This will only be resolved in the coming collapse and the survivors will build these communities out of necessity and all the fluff will be tertiary at best
Hi, I’ve been involved within community pretty deep since a year into covid. I’ve always been involved in coop living mainly growing up and traversing through Canada, for affordability reasons. I’ve always been intrigued by people and how we work. After 3 years and a few different communities. Well to be exact I have been involved with different communities that have formed in Canada since restrictions on peoples freedom of choice. All teh other reasons I’m sure you’re well aware of. My interest now is to form systems within communizes that can help them to thrive. I feel strongly about all your issues you discussed and I will be sending an email to your posted info on this video. I would love to spend some time to ask you questions about your experiences and knowledge you would wish to pas on. Thanks for your time and I hope to collaborate in the future if that is alligned. P.S. i tried your Instagram links embedded in this video and they seem to be broken. Could be or maybe not. Thanks again.
Many people in communities are just way out of touch with reality. I got my apartment broken into many times. So I just don't trust my neighbors. And I made that clear to everyone many times. And despite this, they still insist on being "nice". Trying to hold the door for me? I asked them many times if they ever suspected anyone. No one said a thing. So I just can't trust them and I expect them not to try and engage me in any way. They simply can't understand this. They are either dumb and it's too much for them to process or they are just evil people, doing it to annoy me. One of them, with whom I actually talked a few times, told me he once secluded a woman in his office because of some money. He knows everyone in the building. He works in real estate and I suppose it's his job to "be nice". Why would I want to be in good terms with people like this? Not to mention that if the same person keeps doing it after I've already told that person once that I don't want that person in particular to do it, it's harrasement and it's illegal.
@@celastrinarebecka It wasn't so much as my negative experience, as it was the fact that people just don't understand certain aspects. If a thief comes into your house, most of the times that person will not steal your tv. It will go for valuable things that are hard to track. For example, I once lost a silver spoon that I got from my grandpa. I couldn't go to the police and tell them about it. They would have said whatever. Probably it's still in the house. Once I lost some papers regarding my car. The same issue. And who know how many other things that I just can't report to the police as stolen. And I am sure this is a common experience. People always saying they can't find their perfume, stuff like that. And it's starts with "nice behavior". If I were to want to steal something from your house, I would first try to pretend to be at least an acquaintance of yours. I would salute you, stuff like that. So that if a neighbor sees me going inside, there are great chances that person will assume you gave me the key. And in my building there are a lot of people that rent the place. They stay for a few months, maybe a year, then they leave. Some people live there. They own the apartments. I don't mind saying hello to them. But to the people I see only once or twice and then never see again...
@@celastrinarebecka Even the curriers want to be "nice". They want to chat. And those people... Many of them don't even speak the language. And they are renowned for tipping of people regarding bicycles that are left on doorways, stuff like that. I don't believe people should be unsocial creatures or something like that. I'm just saying that in my opinion is best to interact only with the persons that you know something about. And that you have at least seen a few dozens times.
@@celastrinarebecka When I was young I lived in a building where everyone was a house owner. And I saw the same people for years. Only the same people. And I used to say hello to them, whether I liked them or not because we always met. But here, where more than 80% of people are renting their place... It doesn't seem like a good idea.
20:27 Why should newbie have same rights as the senior founder?? That's nonsense! In every reasonable and viable, functioning system the experienced ones drive it, not stupid newbies.
When some people in a community believe they are entitled to more rights than others, it is because they do not recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person. Justice equity and compassion recognizes that we are not all equally endowed physically or mentally, but the natural advantages of one, while it may mean they are favored by fortune, should not automatically mean they are also entitled to more rights than those less favored. Basic rights should be held equally within a community. Otherwise the society becomes disfunctional, where some have abundance beyond reason and others are relegated to an existence that is brutal and short. Natural advantages like greater resources, intelligence and ability increase the responsibility to the community of those who are so favored. Like making sure people have enough to eat and shelter from the elements. This works in socialist society’s, like the Scandinavian countries, but our self-centered capitalist society has failed miserably.
Hello from the USA! I don't know if you'll read this comment, but I would like to add my thoughts as I have been focused on MANY aspects of communal living for the majority of my life @ 45 years of age at this point. Firstly, I would like to say, that especially in the USA, there is a lot working against communal ideals just in public opinion, and that manipulates what people's expectations are when they choose to look into such a thing. I drove 18 wheels all over the USA with a hope to find something more communal that could work well for me, and I could finally settle. I lived in the Philippines for a year, and I like how they had a much more neighborly design than the USA. Yet, I have only my driving skills to offer which wouldn't be enough to keep me in the Philippines so now I am back in the USA.
I'm sure much of what I have to say would sound redundant to you, but I've observed infrastructure everywhere very closely with the thoughts of communal living in mind. While there aren't really all that many intentional communities readily available for someone such as myself, I've taken special interest in things such as metro cities, RV parks, campgrounds, and people who do jobs such as working on a cruise ship. There are a lot of middle of the road ideas which share many principles of communal living yet rely 100% on capitalism. Some RV parks for instance, have a large community center where they will have a lounge, gym, a place to play games, and for people to meet on Sundays to have their own little worship service etc. Getting people connected opens up a lot of potential for sharing, all on its own, without even changing capitalist infrastructure. One idea I've had that I would like to share with you is in how to make capitalist infrastructure slowly benefit from the positive aspects of communal sharing and living. Think about what a library is. It is a place where you can go get a card, and as long as you return items responsibly, you can check them out and use them while paying literally nothing. Angry Capitalist on social media at the idea of social responsibility fail to realize that they've actually utilized such things in their life without hesitation. The painful reality for some people is that the reason they can have a lot more than their work is worth (though they may refute this) is because someone must work for less and to be a much better value to the design. Yet, the way we expect things to grow in a capitalist environment, the people of good value are being DEMANDED by these hard-hitting capitalists to be an even greater value so that those who are "blessed" as they call it can continue to be so and more so. It starts to create a lot of holes in the angle of faith they've successfully gotten nearly everyone on board with. Now, consider if we build something like a library that offers a lot more to be checked out than books...
The problem with promoting self-reliance, doing everything for yourself, getting as much as you can, and working hard to own things for yourself is that we now have way too much stuff, and most of it slowly goes to waste with very little use. Consider kayaks for a moment. I like kayaking, and I own two of them. Last year I put one of them in the water once. yet, there are so many Kayaks in the USA owned by people, that if we could just convince people somehow to donate 10% of them so that they can be placed at every kayak launch point, at every lake or river in the USA, to be checked out by responsible people, then it'd probably be too many and we'd have to send some of them back! It is not unusual for people to find ways to live communally and minimize waste. Assuming that the reason people have advanced is because of how hard we make everyone work by keeping things excessive enough to make most people desperate to get ahead is very farfetched. I do believe that more useful advancements would be made if people were working for that purpose rather than for the purpose of capitalisms survival. Mass production would still exist, but on a different level. Quality would quickly become more important than quantity and people would be motivated by quality sharing. Granted, liberty should still remain intact, and all of these things must remain optional. However, I believe strongly that most people would agree to join in on such a design as they see the benefits AND potential. Really, when people are living efficiently with both a strong respect for quality leisure time, and good work ethic, there are millions of ways we can design society, and there will be a lot of options as to what KIND of community you want to live in, and just about anywhere in the country, or the world?. Utilizing all available resources, the same idea could appear in unlimited different forms. People could make a commune look like a Disney resort, or they could choose primitive camping. It really just comes down to the desire to reduce waste and live better by sharing, while understanding the energy and effort that will still be required to do so (which would generally be far less than what is currently required of people).
All of those other problems such as relationships, religious beliefs, etc. would be worked out no differently than in any other design. Capitalism has proven to be really bad for marriage, relationships, and infidelity all on its own, so I doubt those problems would be any worse to say the least. However, when people are very open to each other, congregate and talk about solutions as a team, it should really lead to a better situation than where people are just building walls to keep other people out. Forgiveness is meant to heal, not to excuse. We should be very forgiving once we've made it clear that this is the purpose of forgiveness. Forgiveness should come with understanding, answers, and solution. Make a sign of that in your community, and people could fix nearly anything. We are looking for ways to fix bad habits, not to condemn them. Exile is a last resort, communicating ways to heal a person that works for both them and everyone they associate with, then to keep these things from effecting future generations should always remain a part of our life.
This was such an absolutely excellent comment, and such great information. Thank you for taking the time to type that all out and share your wisdom.
I love the bits about the obvious freedom of being able to opt in to society in this way, and about exile being a last resort.
I have so many views that align so well with yours, but your own just expanded my perspective even further. Thank you again.
Thank you for this important information. I was drawn to this video because me and my wife are now leaving an intentional community because it turned out to be a narcissists honey trap where the lady who owns the land can mentally abuse families and it’s extremely sad that something so beautiful with such immense potential was simply abused like this. I get the feeling (from talking to others who’ve tried living in intentional communities) that poor conflict management and mental traumas are what causes these communities to simply collapse. Maybe communities should not be intentional but simply form organically and let to die naturally or else we are creating structures of self suppression (sugar coated in fake smiley happy people living on grassy green fields) as we act out roles and wear masks that are not aligned to our heart and soul and end up building something inauthentic.
Hello James, I’m sorry to hear that you and your wife have suffered from a situation like the one you describe. How to deal with property and consequently power struggles that arise from this is one of the most common issues when creating eco villages. It’s so important that everyone is on the same page and that there is clarity around these aspects. I hope that you can find a context where there is real mutual respect, or perhaps create something yourself 🙏🏻
Is it too much to ask here what happened? I have always dreamed of sharing the land I live I on with other families who share a vision of a village, but I am becoming apprehensive after listening to videos about so much conflict resolution.
@@CiaofCleburne the lady who owned the land had an idea about herself that didn’t match who she actually was, personally I think all relationships need to be authentic if they are to last or else they’ll just break down naturally due to being over tired from wearing a mask and that’s simply what happened. One poor guy was told by the lady who owned the land that he could use the land for his business of helping mentally disabled people to experience working on the land in a beautiful space, after months of hard work (nearly a year) in preparing the land for this beautiful little business the lady then simply changed her mind because she thought the guy was too easy going. Basically she kept changing her mind with what was ok and not ok and she even told the families she was a higher priority than their own children. If the owner has their shit together and is not a grandiose psychopath then the community might have a chance of working together (personally no one individual owner is best as there is equal power amongst the people and they can simply discuss matters amongst themselves, plus with having people who are good listeners and sound of mind is a massive help).
@@jamesskinnercouk ok. I understand. This is valuable insight to me a d I really appreciate you giving me the time to answer my question. I wish you and your SO the very best in whatever endeavors you seek in the future. 😊
@@CiaofCleburne hey you’re welcome and take care.
While I don't believe I would enjoy living in a community like this myself, I am glad these communities exist and would encourage anyone who is disenchanted with Capitalism to explore this alternative lifestyle. I also encourage community leaders to be more accepting of these sub-communities. Freedom is important to man's life, and the freedom to live as one chooses without intentionally causing harm to others should be a fundamental right.
I don't think you necessarily have to check out of having normal jobs too and join the community. Like the general goals of shared meals, cutting costs of daily living and just having people you can trust and interact with makes it more than worth it whilst not having to worry about money as much as the necessities are pooled together and are there for everyone.
It's a system of living where humans go back to their roots and work together and solve a huge issue in social isolation and economic disadvantages. I do happen to be an anarcho-communist but capital will never go away as long as scarcity is a thing and their also will be needs and wants. But you can limit the harm that economic disparity causes my purposes restricting what the maximum income is and putting any excess into a shared wants and needs pool if you make too much to support others.
@@ecos889comrade🚩🏴
❤ I wholeheartedly agree! I’m too introverted, independent and often too misunderstood to be accepted in one of these communities but I LOVE that they exist and would fight for them.
You should never be afraid of sharing your faith. For every one person that’s offended, there are more that are hungry to learn about God
@@hfortenberry I would include both introverts & extroverts into my community. For me that is not an issues. The issue for me are takers, people who impose, unrealistic exceptions, disrespectful & more!
I live in an area (in Australia) which has vary many intentional communities of all kinds. One of the biggest challenges I've observed is that we are products of modern individualistic culture and despite recognizing the failings of that culture, when under pressure (such as seemingly unresolvable conflict) most default to that programming (effectively putting a "fence around their plot") On the whole, we have not grown up with a tribal 'council of elders, who might adjudicate final decisions with the wisdom of experience, or are prepared to forgo our particular positions for the good of the collective. As re your first point, too often, we might agree that current lifestyles are failing us and wish to create better (and everyone may have a different idea of what that looks like) but the common 'vision' to which we're dedicated to creating is not clear enough.
Very good points. What you mention about the Wisdom/experience piece is vital. What I disagree with in the video is the “everyone equal” part - it’s a nice ideal but the reality some people are better at handling certain pieces than others and it comes down to whether any person in a position of superior ownership or leadership in some way is equally as sacrificing and impersonal and group-oriented in their overall maturity equal to the power they wield…
What you describe is the spark of domination that creates genocidal empires.
People with disabilities have often learned to be more inter-dependent as a matter of survival. It would be a good idea to include them in conversations about "how to work with others"
This video should be a prerequisite for all who wish to attempt such an endeavour. I have lived very near to a Land-Trust for 11 years now. It is an absolute nightmare due to the founder's belief of "No Ands, Ifs or Buts". And by welcoming everyone, he ended-up getting 90% takers, conflicts, high turnover rate and more!
I came across this video that was as if recorded by myself, lol, when searching for intentional communities, as I am currently attempting to start one in New Brunswick, Canada.
I live 8 years now in a community, and what you say is sense and wisdom
I've lived in communities, am an Architect, Builder and LEED AP also a dedicated spiritualist - so have seen this from all sides.
Celastrina has done an excellent job of hitting all the points that I have also talked to others who have come to me for advice about building community for many years.
The Key Three for me are always location (One person wants ocean, one the mountain another the forests), Vision statement with all resolution paths and rules cleared spell out and Economics - as she pointed out we are under this system whether you like it or not and just buying a piece of land is only the beginning.
Great Job of Putting this together!!
Wow.. what a video. This video creator has created an amazing resource for anyone thinking about intentional communities. She is so articulate and eloquent. The structure and delivery of the information is fantastic; I'm lost for words. She started of with an abstract concept and then brought it back to her experience. Well done.. amazing video.
Thank you 😍
Very deep study you have done on the subject. In India we found there is no legal structure for such villages. /communities. Creating Constitution is very important part of creating community.
Nice to see your awareness. Only two lovers destroyed our cause. Then there was the silent predator, hitting on members.-- and those 'no intention' members who sabotaged every move. I was a Member at Braziers with Norman and Glyn and also used to visit Minstead Lodge. Fircroft College fulfilled some of the criteria.
Such a comprehensive and refreshing honest view on these elements of community that are so vital to their existence but are so infrequently talked about
Thank you!!
Wow, Celastrina, your insights and overall presentation, is brilliant. Thank you for sharing! You could save people a lot of unnecessary suffering if they would simply heed your counsel. You could also do reviews on successful eco villages/communities as well to provide examples of how they've succeeded. 😊💙
Thanks so much Celastrina; That was very enlightening and you hit the nail on the head with working together with modern society.
I noticed that in intentional communities people involved often have a higher vision that see things black and white towards traditional society: It HAS to be off-grid, it HAS to be collective, it HAS to be ecological, it HAS to be political or it HAS to have everyone contribute. Which complicates things and sets things up to be unpractical.
Rejecting all what has modern society has brought , you also reject that great things that have come with it; science, architecture, education, resources, trade, technology, healthcare, hygiene, energy. The irony is that many intentional communities have borrowed the inventions and know-how to make their living possible.
Which is a shame because right now we are so technologically advanced that good, comfortable, social community living is possible. As long as we accept that using the modern system to an extent is perfectly fine! Let's call it semi-off grid or dense grid living; That makes it possible to live with people you share a connection with, to have a healthy carbon-foot print and provide a living which makes us be almost independent from this unstable global hyperconnected system.
Thanks for sharing. Here at LooseNatural farm in Andalusia Spain we found that most people only change their minds when they die. We western people really struggle with group identity. Next to us is an opportunity to buy 12ha with 12 different ground papers. I really wish that people can share more. Wishing you the best.
At our place, Bogata Suma croatia, we have been underway 14 years now to create a community. Many people come and go. We do experience all the differences and also how to point to instant quality that come directly when a small group of volunteers come together. Usually the energy of the start is the right energy. Everybody is new to each other. Using that first moment and maintaining that quality while getting things done is a challenge. Fascinating for me and Barbar anyhow. Thank you Celestrina for putting your view in a number of points. Without a system people agree to as part of a group instead of necessarily maintaining individuality might be a direction. A good combination of 'my way' to 'group way' can create well woven initiatives.
This was definitely my experience of the community I lived in and its failure.
I am so happy to have discovered Celastrina's videos. She is eloquent and thorough in her presentations. She is the first person who has enabled me to clearly understand the hows and whys of my own personal experience living in an intentional community.
Wow thank you so much Joseph 😍🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thanks for all this sharing, I’m looking forward for the video about conflict resolution thought play ! 🙏🏼
Thank you! yes that's a treat 😍
Yes, please make a video about the conflict resolution thought play. Thank you
Celastrina, I came across this video one year ago before moving to an ecovillage, and at that time, I didn't take it seriously. One year later, I watched it again, it's just so relevant and relatable, I guess these problems along with the others are quite universal in many ecovillages or communities. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, I know that all these are earned with tear and sweat... please keep sharing with us, because even with all the challenges, it may be one of a few solutions existing that could bring us out of rat race.
...so well done, put together and explained, Celastrina 💖
I live now for about 25 years in the Findhorn eco-Community in Scotland, and I can relate to all points on your list, and see, where we're doing well, and where not so much... especially in the aftermath of the lock-down, we are struggling to get on our feet in new ways (our main income was strongly related to guests/workshops, and with the interruption of people traveling + significant raise of living costs, we did financially break down)... work in progress 🌈
PS. tonight we have a community meeting, and in the invitation message our admin set this video as a recommendation to watch before attending! After watching it, I added it also to other social media of our community, and to my own global network... 🌍
Dear Jorn, thank you so much for reaching out and sharing this story, I highly admire Findhorn so it's an honour that you guys are watching my videos and find them valuable! I hope to come visit some day :) Say hi to everybody and you're doing a great job!!! 😀
Thank you so much! My husband and I are in the stage of contemplating challenges of our future intentional community. This video is awesome as a summary! I subbed and will watch more of your content! ❤
Thank you so much! I'm happy it gives value! Good luck with your community!
So happy your making these videos
Thank you 😍
So valuable!!! Thank you so much!!
Thank you for this great video and all the interesting points you raised.my grandfather lived in Woodstock and wrote about the beatnik and hippy mouvement. I love the idea of communal living but I wonder how practical it really is. First of all although I live in an old farm house and have planted many trees in a small ecological gesture and are 17:51 17:51 17:51 about 70-80 percent self sufficient in terms of vegetable production ( we are veggies)yet we consume electricity and water so we are part of the capitalist system of production. We use no pesticides and yet we have a car and although we drive as little as possible we still have a carbon footprint. I have noticed that when we have guests although we love interacting with them we are most often relived when they leave because we need our own space. One guest recently was lazy and never helped with the dishes or cooking and I found this annoying.
In terms of idealism and communal living I wonder whether the natural fragility greed and invidious nature of man does not make shared living and whether Hobbes and Machiavelli didn’t have a point about the immutable struggles that arise between men. our higher goal is ecological living respect for the earth and animals but we have to be careful not to appear patronizing towards the local farmers. What do you think of the idea that idealistic people tend to be self righteous thereby robbing themselves and perhaps others of modesty and true virtue? Some people I meet are all on fire for great moral causes like saving the whale but they would be the first to lecture you and find fault with you if you might not share all their points of view and push comes to shove they would be the first to leave a boot print on your face stampeding you to get to a life boat when the ship springs a leak.
Seems to me a year is nothing. People take longer than that just to unload their baggage and start being the version of themselves to be in community. It's not like any other Role we are asked to play. Not leading or following, not uncaring, but not super-attached to the minutiae of how things work out, not putting self first, but not last either. Roles take a while to gel, continuing to respond to each other. Our community has 5 people, my wife and I and 3 younger people. We are all 'becoming ourselves' yet, learning new skills for dealing with Community. But a year is not enough time for the adjustment. Having too many other good options too easily at hand may actually work against community.
A year is a short duration. It took me a year just to feel and adjust to the seasonal changes that, having lived in a city before, I really didn’t notice other than temperature change. Living in the middle of an old forest, seasonal changes are intense and at time, nearly overwhelm an unsettled mind. I learned to relax and just go with the flow after 3 years.
That perennial conflict: the good of the collective and the freedom of the individual. Hell of a problem. But one worth working on.
Suicidal hyper-individualist capitalism wasn't built on the first try either 😊
Thank you for your honest Feedback about Intentional communties. So helpful!
Could you also share your List of biggest advantages of Living in an Intentional community?
Also what is an ideal Group size for a community out of your perspective?
Lovely video and topics, thanks 🙏
very informative video
Fantastic advice. Thanks
Lived in community for 15 yrs. It's not just a matter of what 'works' and what doesn't. It's far more complex than that. With a large community (East Wind is a good example): EW both works and doesn't. The community continues to exist because it produces income and always has enough people coming through the turnstile to keep the money coming in. The social problems at EW are huge and have never been resolved -- despite some effort to do so. When you can't stand it anymore, you just leave, and someone else is always waiting to take your place.
The best example of a larger community that actually works well is Findhorn. That community is a model for intentional community. Another example of intentional community that tried its best to work, but ultimately failed, is The Farm in Tennessee ... existed for many years but had too many flaws.
What works? One might think it's commonality of purpose, but it's more important for purpose to be realistic and achievable. Pie in the sky doesn't work. And that's just ONE issue. There are dozens. It's all very complicated -- because human beings themselves are complicated. Everyone defines 'realistic and achievable' in their own way. No one thinks their silly ideas are just fantasies; they will insist the community should do what THEY SAY because their vision is the correct one. "We must live simply so others can simply live" is often taken as gospel -- whether it is actually true or not. Everyone has their own internal Holy Scripture, and they expect YOU to have respect for it, whether it makes sense or not. There are dozens of such issues floating around like ghosts in most communities. And those issues are mostly not resolvable. As Kat Kinkade used to say (over and over in fact) is "people have voted with their feet." Kat's solution? Keep new feet coming in.
What are the social problems at EW?
Thank you so much for your effort. I appreciate the work you do for unravelling a lot of myths and believes and misunderstandings around communities. I will definitely check out some of your other videos and recommend your channel to others, who likely will need to get inspired by the things you share as well!
SO SO SO many thanks for all your advice!
You’re welcome 😍
Having a shared vision and being practical are the two biggest issues.
Great things to think about thank you
Thank you 😍
Like others, looking forward to the conflict resolution video. Listening to your list so many of the problems you speak of resemble those of wider society at a different scale. One wonders if these communities are reinventing the wheel?
Very insightful and mature, especially for someone of your age. If I were starting an intentional community, I would hire you as a consultant!
Thank you for sharing!!! 🙏
🥰
Thank you for all this insight as I explore it further❤.
Thank you so much for your insight. So valuable. 😊
Would be cool to do case studies of what works and how they do it so that everyone can get inspiration from that.
clear cut....mam great info
very informative video. Thank you
Thank You
My compliments! Great content!
Great. I think you nailed it. No way out.
(I realize it is odd for me to comment here, but I was reviewing videos to send to my English learners and the topic of sustainability has been coming up lately.) :)
Very interesting video. I have no intention of joining an intentional community because I don't have a lot of valuable skills for a group and generally am a loner, so I anticipated a lot of the potential for interpersonal conflicts mentioned here. I am very much someone who would've been some kind of outcast just a few hundred years ago. :) However, I think these communities could be a great option for people who do get along in groups as long as there is a set guiding principle, as you mentioned, especially once it becomes more clear how fragile all our systems are. That's the real heartbreak for me: I see the widening cracks in the late-stage capitalism. I am part of the Precariat. I think it's beyond unethical the way developers continue to build fast, cheap, ugly housing while cutting down far too many trees in the process, and the result is still too expensive for working people and perpetuates unsustainable living practices. This is all the more troubling because neither my SO nor I are ever going to be able to retreat to a cabin in the woods to avoid group conflict.
Never say never. I retreated to a literal cabin in the woods. It can be done as long as you keep it in your heart and never close your mind off to manifesting what you really want. Now I am on 17 acres of old forest and yearn to open it up to others seeking nature and yes, I have to admit, capturing the tourist dollar that travels by here, but also to open up trails of old, fabulous trees that beckon families to stop, let the kiddos stretch their legs, and educate while strolling thru. It can be done. Never say never!!
Great Video Celastrina. Good job.
Your new home looks lovely.
A
Thank you 😍
This was so informational Thank You for sharing
A good amount of aspects was covered. Thank you.
I so resonate and appreciate your videos
Thank you 😊
wow. I am impressed by the high value, this video has. Thank yo u so much for sharing this!!
Thank you 😍😍🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thank you, I always appreciate honesty! While I admire people that are willing to try something different, upon visiting an ecovillage, I quickly realized it wasn’t for me. Makes me wonder about other arrangements that might offer enhanced opportunities for reduced consumption, home production, tool sharing, and other efficiencies while maintaining more autonomy. Have you come across anything you would consider ecovillage “light”?
Maybe Dancing Rabbit in the US. It seems to have a more individualistic approach.
Wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing this. I wonder if it, or any of your videos are available in Italian, as I would like to share them with a group that is currently working to create a new intentional community in another part of Italy.
Thank you ☺️ I personally speak Italian since I live here, but my videos are only in English 😢
I think that -- I think that all communities are retirement communities: People join community because they want to go deep, and in going deep time passes, and as time passes people become old, and when people become old they retire, so the people that they went deep with, are now all retired together. For a community to go beyond its source generation, it needs to focus on being something more than a community: It needs to focus on being a lineage. And being a lineage means looking beyond the people you know and your relationships; it means intimately relating with people who are NOT your community.
I think this is such an interesting topic and very true. I feel like some people are unaware that they are subconciously being too self-centered (even if they are empathic people who care about the world). Realizing you will grow old, fast, and need to be the elder to the new younger generations, who can keep building on your knowledge and legacy and will continue to live and change. But to establish a system of ‘transfer’ of the way of living to ‘newcomers’ and younger generations is vital for the survival of any species, so also for an intentional living community. I think people are putting so much time and effort into creating the life they want and envision, that they forget they will die, and it will die with them if they don’t actively become the elders that have an active role and connection to the whole of the community and young people.
❤
Fantastic video
Nice video 🎉🎉🎉
Very thorough and thoughtful breakdown. Thanks for sharing this!
Great info ❤
thank u !
Excellent video.
I think I know your daughter. We met in India years ago.
Love to you ❤
Great coverage of the topic. I'm left wondering what tactics you would prescribe for recruitment and conflict resolution. Do you have any more videos that dive deeper into these subjects?
Interesting. Thanks.
Awesome video, thank you so much. In the process of creating an intentional community, so much valuable information here.
Thank you Jessica! I really appreciate your warm words :)
Can you make a video on the economical constrains part more in detail?
Very good! Thank you
Thank you for the information and your clear, calm presentation style💚
Amazing. Clear. Educational.
Does anyone knows intentional communities that are looking for new members?
I would be interested in the higher Vision that you guys set for yourself.
You said you created an intentional Community with 8 other People.
If you want to share that, it would be really interesting:)
Much Lovee!
Thank you Tim! :) i think many intentional communities are looking for new members, you can look at different ones on the website of GEN or also join groups of intentional communities on facebook.
Yes, we've created a village that is a part of the bigger intentional community we're living in. Damanhur is a federation of communities that we as a group that have built the new village are a part of. You can watch the video "we built an eco village" on my channel for more information of the project :)
The foundation for intentional communities, has a searchable database for you just put in the town or state or country you want to live in and you will receive a listing of communities in that geographic region. Every time I have clicked on the page for a specific community, it has the information if it is accepting new members. It also has some basic information about the type of community. The listing will say, for example, whether the community is religious.
Excellent video and you are very well spoken. The issue about newcomers is interesting as I see a trend, where others need to bend down to them. Why can't newcomers recognize their true place in a new situation?
Hey Celastrina, thank you for this video. I spent a few weeks in Damanhur in 2019, what a beautiful place
I'm really curious about all the tools you have for conflict resolution, and specifically play (you mentioned this 14:45). Did you end up making a video about this? I couldn't find it in the other ones. If you haven't, I'd love to watch it when you do :)
Con te
Hello Nimrod, thank you for the comment! Yea I haven’t published it yet but it’s scheduled in the coming weeks, there’s a lot of curiosity around that :) thank you for watching! Con te
Thanks, looking forward to it. Meanwhile watching your videos, as I intend to start a community very soon in Portugal. All the best :)
@@celastrinarebecka
@@nimrodtomoren wow beautiful! Good luck with that!
Yes true attracts the weakest people who have no strength and drain others if u do not have any self confidence will only feel confident when leaning on others
Yes, I believe that everyone can learn from each other but it's important to be self aware :)
Thank you for this video, I find it extremely interesting. I am on a journey of self discovering, I believe sooner or later I will experience how is life in an intentional community.
I've got a question here:
Do you think self development should be a basic and always present activity in the community?
For instance organising workshops periodically which would help to maintain a certain level of serenity within the community before reaching the point of conflict?
Is this happening in Damanhur?
Welcome to hear from any other member of different communities 🙏
You are right people need to heal,that's what plant medicine for
What is the biggest benefit to you in living in this community. That makes it worth it to balance all the things you stated? Thank you. I love this information so much! ❤
'Higher vision' is what I've been calling 'an organizing principle'. There has to be some reason that the community exists as a community. This gives it cohesion and identity. Otherwise, it's just individuals living in an area.
I’m part of a group that has a space in a shop that everyone can gather during certain hours. It feels like a social group but it’s called a tribe. There is talk of buying land and making a community. There are bylaws. I’m concerned that it will just be a trailer park in the woods. I have no volunteers for my garden though I offer plants, seeds and produce. A member of tribe is having surgery Wednesday and no one has volunteered to take care of her cats. I’m available 2x/wk to feed them at her house and change the litter box but literally no one else has stepped up. I’m having second thoughts about them. I want a community of people who grow food, raise animals and help each other. Few people are willing to step outside of themselves to help anyone with anything.
Thank your for this comment, I think sadly that we who are living in western countries are both longing for community and deep connections and at the same time we’ve been so out of tune from this that it takes effort to enter into the mindset of what that really means. Many tend to get very comfortable in their own bubble but still it creates loneliness. What I’ve seen is that often it takes some time to adjust and re-wire your behaviour and mindset to be more “community” aligned. What is required ofc is that people really want to, otherwise it becomes difficult. That’s why it’s best to start off with people who are passionate about the community project
Findhorn Foundation, in my view, was hit with 9 og the 10 canon balls you list. We were hit with differential pay for the ‘important jobs’, we spent a lot of money on paying for some members private housing, burn outs, lack of community building, decisions by trustees and board were handed down which was a brilliant way to defer conflicts, externals were hired in without going through ‘the school’ and given powers to decide.
And when the armada of Covid arrived, 100 members were jettisoned. But the ship could no longer be kept afloat.
I wish we had all seen your video 10 years ago.
Wait, is Findhorn still chugging along? This makes it feel like it tanked?
Money is not the root of all evil, it is the “love of money”. Get it right. It makes a huge difference.
Hai Celastrina, thank you for sharing your knowledge about eco villages.
Our university in south kalimantan in Indonesia is starting to learn how to form an eco-community. Here, we have 1,268 villages that need to partner with our university.
Could you help us share your knowledge, and discuss the successes and failures of intentional eco villages?
Hello Tomi, thank you for your request! I have replied to you via email 😊🙏🏻
They need to leverage technology and design and most importantly they need control of zoning more than anything so they can actually do what is possible.
The people are the problem.
_ABSOLUTELY!_
I wish I could find a community with older people so I could take care of them and continue the community
Hello Rebecka. I appreciate your effort to disclose so much info about intentional communities. Why I can't download your videos here on TH-cam? If we as a family of 5, me , my wife and our three children want to live in an intentional community where would you recommend for us to go? Thank you very much
Thank you for your comment, I think that normally youtube videos aren't possible to download if not converted.
There are so many different intentional communities out there so you should ask yourself some basic questions like: Do we prefer a big or small community? What language is preferred? What projects are important for us? These questions could help guide you to the right choice :) I wish you luck!
@Celastrina Rebecka thank you very much for your time. We can speak Romanian , english and Russian. Also we prefer a community where we can start without paying a big amount of money because we don't have right now. We come from the poor country Moldova 🇲🇩 . We also feel good listen to you. Maybe you can recommend to us a specific community in Europe because we can't travel elsewhere because we need visa. Maybe your community can help us to start . We are alone, can't find people with the same mind like ours, we love nature and don't do harm to others or nature but here people drink so much alcohol and are very agresive so our children don't have any opportunities...their future here is compromised..
Fantastic topic to bring up, that isn't talked about enough. I decided long ago to not do this with a community - I want like-minded neighbors, but an intentional community is just too much to handle, everything from land ownership to ideological differences to people's selfishness. I realized recently that the reasons these things almost always fail, is because I'd wager 95-98% of people in modern society never mature socially beyond puberty. We're a bunch of spoiled, selfish children, it's always "me me me". We can barely fathom how differently our ancestors functioned, when they lived in their tight-knit villages.
Regarding sexuality and relationships in particular, and you mentioned jealousy and drama... perhaps this is why every culture up until our modern society a couple of generations ago, had such strict rules and morals regarding sex and relationships. If you lack these strict moral guidelines or rules, people's drive for sex and relationships wreak absolute havoc on a community. It's like fire, for a comparison. Fire is absolutely essential for our survival, and helps us when controlled and handled right, but let loose, it destroys everything.
And as it turns out, and some of you will not want to hear this, but the people who have been pushing the sexual liberation movement for the past 50-100 years are virtually always themselves deeply sick, perverted people from a different tribe who want to destroy our society. The ones at the top don't believe they are here to liberate, they are here to destroy and revel in it.
Thanks for sharing valuable information. I am a PhD scholar, doing research on ecovillages and intentional communities. I wanna write about the failure and success aspects of these communities. Is there any way to speak to you? Thanks!
Thanks for this helpful video! I find each comment spot-on, even though I've never lived in a community of this kind.
Cela: as a lovely open minded women, please try my books: Platinum Flowers, Selling Holes, Siamese Nation, Quantum Nipples and Titanium Sushi. These are the most original books on the planet (amazon kindle).
When you said NARC you said it all about that one failed community.
❤
🤔 It is difficult to predict the future, but my mind goes to … what if society got real bad and family members want to join with parents, or siblings, etc and where do you draw the line with how many family/friends can be a part of your own individual holding during unexpected tough times???
❗️I also wonder if civilization turns to chaos and marauders/thieves start to attack, what kind of view/action will be acceptable to protect the community??
I don't know why ,but I would like to join or live in a group I will say it's important for everyone to get there private space when they need it. Does anyone know where to find one
One formula does not fit all. Same can be said about intentional community . In my observation the 2 common styles are, one based on different properties built on a land that are individually owned.
Second, one person or small group with money buy land, build and construct every thing on the land, people who move on the land do work trade to live on the land and share communal activities.
Both can work and fail too. The key to any set up is that the ones that have lasted for decades are ones with strict and clear rules. They have trial period (few months) for any one who wants to live in the community, This is a good test if they are a good fit. With out order structure, clear rules the community will fail.
If you have a strong visionary founder. That founder must plan a organized management committee to run the place once they are gone.
I used to live in a community of yellow frog impersonators, combine harvester wizards, hard rock earthworms and singing salads. It was wonderful until we all woke up...😅
The rule is these communities collapse bc its built by broken people who sre just looking for a shelter. Very few of these communities have experience in building sustainable small communities so the vast majority of these experiments are doomed to fail and create even more trauma
This will only be resolved in the coming collapse and the survivors will build these communities out of necessity and all the fluff will be tertiary at best
Hi, I’ve been involved within community pretty deep since a year into covid. I’ve always been involved in coop living mainly growing up and traversing through Canada, for affordability reasons. I’ve always been intrigued by people and how we work. After 3 years and a few different communities. Well to be exact I have been involved with different communities that have formed in Canada since restrictions on peoples freedom of choice. All teh other reasons I’m sure you’re well aware of. My interest now is to form systems within communizes that can help them to thrive. I feel strongly about all your issues you discussed and I will be sending an email to your posted info on this video. I would love to spend some time to ask you questions about your experiences and knowledge you would wish to pas on. Thanks for your time and I hope to collaborate in the future if that is alligned.
P.S. i tried your Instagram links embedded in this video and they seem to be broken. Could be or maybe not. Thanks again.
You should prolly get one of those fuzzy things for ur mic
Many people in communities are just way out of touch with reality. I got my apartment broken into many times. So I just don't trust my neighbors. And I made that clear to everyone many times. And despite this, they still insist on being "nice". Trying to hold the door for me? I asked them many times if they ever suspected anyone. No one said a thing. So I just can't trust them and I expect them not to try and engage me in any way. They simply can't understand this. They are either dumb and it's too much for them to process or they are just evil people, doing it to annoy me. One of them, with whom I actually talked a few times, told me he once secluded a woman in his office because of some money. He knows everyone in the building. He works in real estate and I suppose it's his job to "be nice". Why would I want to be in good terms with people like this? Not to mention that if the same person keeps doing it after I've already told that person once that I don't want that person in particular to do it, it's harrasement and it's illegal.
Sounds like you've had a terrible experience, I'm sorry to hear that!
@@celastrinarebecka It wasn't so much as my negative experience, as it was the fact that people just don't understand certain aspects. If a thief comes into your house, most of the times that person will not steal your tv. It will go for valuable things that are hard to track. For example, I once lost a silver spoon that I got from my grandpa. I couldn't go to the police and tell them about it. They would have said whatever. Probably it's still in the house. Once I lost some papers regarding my car. The same issue. And who know how many other things that I just can't report to the police as stolen. And I am sure this is a common experience. People always saying they can't find their perfume, stuff like that. And it's starts with "nice behavior". If I were to want to steal something from your house, I would first try to pretend to be at least an acquaintance of yours. I would salute you, stuff like that. So that if a neighbor sees me going inside, there are great chances that person will assume you gave me the key. And in my building there are a lot of people that rent the place. They stay for a few months, maybe a year, then they leave. Some people live there. They own the apartments. I don't mind saying hello to them. But to the people I see only once or twice and then never see again...
@@celastrinarebecka Even the curriers want to be "nice". They want to chat. And those people... Many of them don't even speak the language. And they are renowned for tipping of people regarding bicycles that are left on doorways, stuff like that. I don't believe people should be unsocial creatures or something like that. I'm just saying that in my opinion is best to interact only with the persons that you know something about. And that you have at least seen a few dozens times.
@@celastrinarebecka When I was young I lived in a building where everyone was a house owner. And I saw the same people for years. Only the same people. And I used to say hello to them, whether I liked them or not because we always met. But here, where more than 80% of people are renting their place... It doesn't seem like a good idea.
My dream is an INCLUSIVE small home/sustainable community for elderly and PWDs.
Remember you carry your baggage wherever you go so if you can leave it behind the better off you will be. ;)
20:27 Why should newbie have same rights as the senior founder?? That's nonsense! In every reasonable and viable, functioning system the experienced ones drive it, not stupid newbies.
When some people in a community believe they are entitled to more rights than others, it is because they do not recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person. Justice equity and compassion recognizes that we are not all equally endowed physically or mentally, but the natural advantages of one, while it may mean they are favored by fortune, should not automatically mean they are also entitled to more rights than those less favored. Basic rights should be held equally within a community. Otherwise the society becomes disfunctional, where some have abundance beyond reason and others are relegated to an existence that is brutal and short. Natural advantages like greater resources, intelligence and ability increase the responsibility to the community of those who are so favored. Like making sure people have enough to eat and shelter from the elements. This works in socialist society’s, like the Scandinavian countries, but our self-centered capitalist society has failed miserably.