5 Different Finishes, 5 Different Results [Walnut Edition]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
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Guys like us will spend 5 hours researching the perfect walnut finish product and procedure, know all the subtle differences, and then not notice the difference in our wives nail polish when they ask us which shade is better, because there is no difference.
🤣
Great video, all my tables get Mohawk Conversion Varnish. I find it is the toughest finish out there for wear and tear on table tops. Sweaty soda cans, hot dinner plates do not effect this finish. I only use the solvent base type because its fast and easy. Typically a sealer coat, sand with 320 and then 2 fine coats and you are done.
I’ll have to check it out!
I work at a small very custom Cabinet Shop and we use Bona Mega satin on a lot of things it was intended for hardwood floors but it looks great on everything very clear very hard easy to apply. We spray it and brush it.
Very nice. I’ll have to check it out.
I've had some good luck spraying water based floor finishes, pretty amazing products. Wondering how they would work on kitchen cabinets as compared to post catalyzed solvent based varnish?
Great information… It’s been my experience reducing brush strokes and any bit of imperfection left in the finish is doing a hand rubbing final step. I use a 1/4” hard felt pad, lightly soaked in non blooming oil, lightly sprinkle pumice powder on the pad then hand rub the finish lightly with the grain, clean reside with a damp cloth, the results are amazing, silky smooth.
Interesting
I would love to see this comparison done using some oil finishes such as BLO, tung oil, danish oil, etc. Also, with and without shellac like you just did. Great video though!
This was a great video, thanks. I really like the idea of resawing a piece and using the same board for all the tests. I'll use that in the future. 45 years ago, when I was a teenager in high school woodshop class, picking a finish was easy. Everything, and I mean everything at that time was a sprayed lacquer finish. Today there are so, so many choices. Table tops are a special animal in that most customers are looking for a more durable finish. Woodworkers themselves would probably opt for an easy repairable finish for their own personal table tops, but I think most others would pick a more durable finish. That leaves out the oil/non film finishes like tung oil, danish oil, etc. With a basement shop, if I want to use a spay finish, it has to be done in my detached garage in warmer weather. That being said, you can get great results these days with a wipe on finish. My go to for a lot of my work is Waterlox which is a resin modified tung oil. With covid this year, I build a lot of new shop cabinets and finished them all with Waterlox (three coats). It does develop a film finish that has proved to be durable enough for things being dragged across the tops. For some furniture pieces I also do a fair amount of shellac. I just finished a walnut box and tried Osmo (hard wax oil) finish for the first time. For that project I was pleased with the results.
I like waterlox as well. It just smells awful lol
Really liked that emtech flat w sealer. What a beautiful brown finish.
Great info. Thank you! Not many people spraying these days. Would be great to see you spray a finish, your gun set up, your spray environment etc. I spray some finishes but it is quite a learning curve. Hope to see you make a video on it. Love your channel!
I have some ideas for a video like that in the future for sure
Jason, thanks so much for this video!! I just picked up a beautiful 2 1/2" thick, 12' x 18" walnut live edge slab that I'm going to join and use for the top of a dresser. Next steep, how to finish this beautiful slab and presto here you are with a finish comparison! Timing is everything, Rubio Monocoat it is! My spraying budget is still reaching for a Fugi Q5 Platinum but Rubio was one of my original top three to consider and I think it will be the perfect application.
Glad it was helpful
Really good video. I've never fallen in love with rubio because is makes everything look orange to me.
I have a few other colors I want to try and see if I can find a good solution
Shellac is non-toxic- big win. It is easy to work with. No need to sand in between. Just sand once using 150-220 max grit. French polish will make it pop. Each layer of shellac melts into the previous one so sanding in between is a waste of time unless you spot a major issue or imperfect you want to correct. Otherwise, it just removes material and wastes time and adds more steps. the higher grit, e.g., 220 will result in a lighter finish. Lower grits like 150 will open pours and allow more shellac to get into the pours of the wood. It can darken the wood a bit and bring out some nice details.
When your scrap pile contains fiddleback walnut.
Based on how I apply finishes, I found your shirt choice to be a bold move. :) I liked the Varethane with sealer. I thought it brought out the most of the walnut, it was like you turned up the contrast for that part of the video, seeing the yellows and browns, etc. Loved the video, I think this will help or all of us choose the right finish for our projects.
😂 I like to live dangerously. Glad you enjoyed the video.
One of my best thing is put on test pieces for everything, thanks for sharing this man!
No problem!!
I really enjoyed this video. Really well done and helpful. Thank you.
You’re welcome
I’ve been using Emtech products for 5 years now and have struggled with all of them with walnut and cherry. I’ve tried their clear stain base, their shellac, their sanding sealer, as well as Seal Coat dewaxed shellac with unsatisfactory results. I finally stumbled on how to get the warmth of oil based finishes with a waterborne topcoat, Old Master Natural Tint Base, the oil version. Just wipe on a thin coat and wipe it off immediately, no waiting. Let it dry overnight, wipe it down with denatured alcohol and water, then spray the EM8000 over it. I guarantee you will love the results and because it’s a stain base rather than a straight oil, there are no adhesion problems with just an overnight cure time as long as the temp and humidity are correct.
Thank you for this!! I’m about to build walnut vanities for my master bathroom, and have been wondering about the finish. General Finishes is my go to brand (I prefer the high performance topcoat in a flat finish) and based on your test, the General Finishes was my favorite. Looks like I’m sticking with that! But this made me fell so much more confident to move forward. Thank you!
Awesome! Glad it helped with your confidence!
I wanted to leave a follow up in case my experience helps anyone else. I ended up building two walnut table-style vanities and one eight-drawer storage chest (also out of walnut) for our new master bathroom. After watching a few other videos, I went with Rubio Monocoat Oil Plus 2C Pure. I sanded everything to 120-grit, and then applied the Rubio Monocoat. I absolutely love the product. It's so easy to apply (I wouldn't think there's any possible way to mess it up), and it has a very pleasant smell to it. It really brought out the rich, deep color of the walnut in such a gorgeous way.
But I did feel like the surface was too rough. If I brushed against the dark wood with a dusty pant leg (which happens often as the bathroom is still under construction), the dust would not wipe off easily. In fact, trying to wipe it off seemed to kind of bury the dust further into the wood.
I ended up giving the vanities and storage chest another sanding using 220-grit sandpaper, and after cleaning the dust off really well (I just used a wet rag since I figured the first coat of Rubio Monocoat oil had soaked into the pores of the wood and would keep it safe from the water) and letting it dry completely overnight, I applied a second coat of Rubio Monocoat. The new finish is GORGEOUS!! It really brought out more of the beauty of the wood, and the finish is so silky smooth. Now when I get dust on it, the dust wipes off very easily. I can't get over how silky smooth the finish is. It feels like a professional finish (and I'm not a pro, I'm just a DIYer).
I will definitely keep using the Rubio Monocoat, especially on gorgeous wood like Walnut. But I'll always plan for two coats. I like the idea of sanding to 120 and doing the first coat so that the oil can really soak into the pores of the wood. But that second 220-grit sanding with a follow up coat of the Rubio Monocoat leaves such a silky smooth finish that can't be beat.
Anyway, that's my own personal experience with my first time using the Rubio Monocoat (and my first time building with walnut).
Thank you this is great. I found that Rubio in walnut will darken sapwood more than pure will. Can’t wait for the oak demo!
I’ll have to give that a shot, thanks!
Sterling Hein, that's nice to know. Thanks
Do you have any pics of walnut done in Rubio walnut color?
@@hallieelliott6681 I thought I responded to this a few weeks back, but doesn’t appear to be posted. My Instagram account (same username as my TH-cam) has a photo. Look for the sharpening box/drawer post. Second photo shows the sapwood near the front of the case. It’s still lighter than the rest, but I find it not as pronounced.
Great video! Looking forward to your tests on other types of wood.
Would be nice to include a small test on durability or water resistance between them.
They need to actually cure fully before any sort of durability test. I have future video plans for that.
@@bentswoodworking Can't wait for those vids!
one thing that keeps drawing my eye is the brush strokes from the shellac. Not matter how smoothly you apply your topcoat, those strokes in the shellac really stand out. Instead of shellac have you ever tried Charles Neil's pre conditioner? He passed away a few years back but his family is still selling the product. Another suggestion is to make your own sanding sealer. The Marc from the Woodwhisper did a video a few months ago on how he makes it
I have not. I picked the shellac to show a readily available option. 👍
Sprayed shellac works great. I don't brush anything that is a clear finish except boat varnish.
so helpful! i have a white oak faux mantle to build soon and am excited for your next video! thanks Sir!
I hope to do the white oat one soon 👍👍
Rubio Monocoat Chocolate looks good on walnut if you want to tone down the orange look.
Got some target coatings on the way. Tried some sanding sealer and their urethane finish. Also ordered some of their cross linker
Nice, I think you are going to like it!!
One of my takeaways from this is how varied people’s preferences are for the appearance of walnut. I prefer the amberish color on the sap wood and a slight amber tone to the browns. That is why I use danish oil. I know Bent used what he is comfortable working with so this isn’t a ding on his choices. If I could suggest a wood species for future finish comparisons’s how about red oak? Maybe few build with that but it’s very common out here in central CA.
Yeah a lot of it boils down to personal preference I guess. My goal is for people to see the differences. I may have to try red oak as well.
Want to ssy hi to allof fellow cabinet makers and finish workers.. hello from Tepic Nayarit México 👍👍
Hello
I have a 70x40 dining room table I’m going to be making from 8/4 walnut soon - this was very timely for me as we have been using the Varathane Poly clear on all our kitchen cabinets (because we knew no better being newbies at this stuff) - it turned out ok but I want the table to be stunning since it will be seen from the living room and kitchen… I will try spraying some of the Emtech coatings on a test piece and see how it comes out!
I think you will like it.
Thank you for sharing, great to see the comparisons! I have a conversion varnish on our walnut counter to in kitchen, And it is very durable but doesn't stand up to kids or in some cases say the pressure applied to the surface by a cheese grater's bottom. Having used Osmo and Rubio I'm tending to prefer easily repairable surfaces over 'durable' surfaces as durable surfaces can't really survive life. When I think about the effort that is going to be involved in repairing and refinishing my 10'x4' walnut counter I feel a bit overwhelmed by it. My Osmo walnut counters in other rooms I have been able to make minor repairs in place and you can't even tell.
That’s a great point.
I really liked this content. Can you do some durability testing along with it in the future? For a table top, durability is key!
Durability is for sure important, but repairability has become more important for me. I've made tables for clients with kids...and both were wipe on poly, 4 costs or so. One table has kids that are a bit more, "rough" on it, no finish can stand up to that. It now looks like a small war happened on top, scratches all over it. And it's going to require sanding down the entire top to refinish it. The other table is holding up better but only because it's treated better. Rubio on the other hand may be considered less durable by traditional standards when comparing it to a plastic layer, but the same damage can be repaired in 10 or 15 minutes with no witness lines or need to sand back the entire table. For me, knowing when to pick my battles with finish durability is key. I've also put spaghetti and red wine on white oak with Rubio on it and no staining when left on for 30min to an hour, I didn't test longer times as I figured these sorts of things should get cleaned up quickly.
Now if little kids aren't involved, all of the finishes that form a layer could be great choices. I've also never used a conversion varnish, but all the others I have.
@@stumptownwoodworks I found your comments interesting and helpful. Making a dining room table for the first time. My wife wants the lighter color of the bur(r) oak and did not care for the sample piece I did with a shellac sealing coat and then two coats of Minwax Polycrylic Crystal Clear top coat-clear gloss finish. To dark for her liking but did like the gloss. The table will not harsh treatment as you described. I've looked at a lot of videos on finishes and get more frazzled and undecided the more I look.
Super helpful video! Thanks 😊
Glad it was helpful!
The issue I have is the amber tint over time which I would like to avoid. I’ve used minwax polyurethane a lot but it definitely ambers.
Jason, thank you for this great video! Which would you prefer for an application of a finish on a small plaque made of Walnut, "Spray" or "Brush"?
Very useful thank you for doing this!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you!!!! GREAT video! Hopefully rubio cotton white is a part of your next test with white oak😁
For the white oak I plan on 4-5 different Rubio colors.
Nice benefit of the Target EM1000 sanding sealer is that any fairly clear. So any dyes or pigments added to it have a truer look that sealers that are milky.
Enjoyed the video. I find side by side finish tests very satisfying.
No grain filler used eh? Surfaces look very smooth without.
No filler used.
Excited to see the finish comparison on cherry
Hopefully I can do that soon.
Great video sir and thank you I had never heard of emtech products
I hadn’t either until recently and I really like them!!
It’s a funny thing I’ve noticed woodworkers saying…I hate the sanding process and I hate the finishing process lol I think we all secretly hate woodworking lol jk Great video
Lol that’s a good point. 🤣
My go to has always been tung oil.
Good job. Now try putting an ice water glass and a hot cup of coffee / water on each and see how well the finishes hold up.
I suspect the ones without a shellac base will outperform the others.
I agree, for a dining table more than "looks" is necessary to choose a finish system. I'm quite sure Bent knows this, and maybe he can have another video doing tests like you mentioned.
I am doing a black walnut fireplace mantle and I am interested in the Emtech 8000 CV Flat. Only question/ concern is if it is heat resistant? Thanks for the video it is very helpful.
This was helpful! I'm about to finish my first set of cabinets made of walnut and like you, I prefer the brown and flat finish of the Emtech products. In the long term, what will be the difference between using or not using the sanding sealer, and will the color fade over time without UV protection?
Jack. Skeuse.
Fantastic video. Thank you for making comparisons on Walnut. Everything I do is in Walnut and I completed a 4‘ x 10‘ kitchen table for my son and his wife. I used water based Varethane without a sanding sealer. After two years I was disappointed that the walnut faded in normal kitchen lighting. Can you give us some guidance on a finish that has a UV. Thank you.
Spar urethane’s are good for UV protection
Anything intended for marine use, as mentioned. I use Epifanes varnishes on mahogany and oak pieces on my wooden boats. Each season, you can lightly sand and recoat. Takes a long time to cure though.
Have you done the comparison on cherry wood yet? I'm struggling with how to finish a cherry wood hutch. Thanks.
Great comparison 👌
Glad you found it helpful
Divide the board lengthwise to compare like grains.
Great vid, have you tried the Rubio universal maint. oil, by itself. I first tried it on some figured walnut, I put 5 coats being a little less aggressive with the wipe off on the last coats. Came out amazing.
I haven’t used it much yet myself
@@bentswoodworking I tried it at the same time as the Osmo extra thin, and the Livos counter top oil. Osmo told me that the thin is the same as the regular, just made for oily woods, and like you said it does'nt leave that weird milky tint to it. also tried the same experiment as you did, but with all the high end clears on some 4x4 1/4'' thick plywood. Interestingly the Arm R Seal, and the birchwood casey Tru Oil added almost no color, which I applied to the one piece with the Univ Maint oil with shellac in between. I like the Tru oil, as I do not have a clean room, and it dries faster. I like the above 3 hard wax oils for not leaving that milky tint. Not sure if this would help you or not but, I've lost so much finish over time, until I tried the Vacuvin wine saver set up, and some flat bottomed bottles with a lab magnetic spin mixer, I no longer lose finish. I got the idea from an old timey woodworker who used the (pump and seal) which makes getting the lids off very hard, so I tried the vacuvin thing. Thanks for your informative vids, they help me a ton (newbie).
Thank you.
Lovely work. Did you do any grain raising prior to the initial sanding? Trying to test some processes for a walnut snare drum build I'm doing. Absolutely love referencing this video for a pretty detailed but step by step process. Good work!
I didn't
How can show a client those samples when your client’s piece is a completely different piece of walnut?
GREAT WORK!
Thanks
You mentioned wanting to, “kid proof” or at least make the table more resistant to kids. Cam over at Blacktail started using a ceramic protectant from Black Forest studios. This treatment works like the new ceramic waxes for cars. He claims to have really good results so far.
Interesting, I’ll have to check it out sometime
I'm curious why you used the conversion varnish EM8000 instead of the EM6000 waterborne lacquer?
Great video!
For Rubio Walnut color, my understanding is that this one is used to make other light color wood look like walnut color. So using "walnut" on walnut won't have much impact. I did tests of different Rubio colors on white oak, maple and birch. If you are interest, please check out these two videos.
th-cam.com/video/Q8uvKkGHOaw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/U7p-IA52fK0/w-d-xo.html
Will do thanks
So ...my question is what or how do you fix either the Enduro or the EM8000 when you get a deep scratch that you can feel with your nail...??? Which of the two finishes is a harder or more durable finish???? Thanks, nice video, well done.
All of my recent "furniture" was shop furniture and fixtures. Because of the TH-cam community affinity for water based polyurethanes, I put Minwax WBPU on the first cabinet I built, one intended for small, portable bench-top power tools like sanders and grinders. I was very disappointed in the hardness of the finish. The rubber feet of the tools tend to stick to the finish and when slid on the bench top, they leave blackish streaks. I went back to a friend's favorite, oil based Varathane for my drill press stand and it is everything I expected from a durability standpoint. The drill press is a 14" benchtop model and it has not damaged the finish when moved around on the bench prior to being bolted in place. Deft brushing lacquer has given equally durable results on subsequent shop furniture projects. The poor performance of the Minwax product has made me reluctant to try other WBPU products. Are there any that give a finish as hard as oil based poly or lacquer?
How does the General Finishes Enduro Var 2 look as compared to the original Enduro Var? I can’t find the old formulation any more as they’ve updated to this new environmentally friendly version with Enduro Var 2. Thanks!
I thought(from reading a few sources) the waterbased ones are not designed to take anything else like a shellac over them, as they are so the wood doesnt yellow from UV over time with woods exposed to the sun from windows, etc. I actually like the Varathane Satin that you mention looks milky, as I like a lighter look. I also like the slight amber...Also like Emtech 8000 Flat....though i rather brush :-)
The shellac was not over it, it was under it.
@@bentswoodworking Ok, even under them, the UV over time will effect the color. I was using Gn Fin High Performance flat on white oak, but using a low % white stain first, as this will stabilize the wood from aging color shift.
Nice - Thanks!
Do you maybe have any ideas on what finish i can use on a just sanded piece of dark wood? I want to keep the natural slightly dull shade and don't want that deep dark grain enhancing warmness that oil gives. I want it to look likes it been just sanded/cut but then be slightly protected from UV or oxidation etc... Any ideas? it's a display cabinet so very low wear. So far I'm thinking water based polyurethane...
The only thing durable enough for kids and dining room table is epoxy. They will bang silverware into the table and get into no ends of trouble. This was a comparison of sheens and colors. I would like to see somthing what Project Farm does with his paint testing and drag a point across the wood with and aparatus that will apply even pressure. Then check out how much each is scratched for durability.
For epoxy, you can control the sheen with sanding. Sand to around 800 for flat, 2k for satin, 3 for semi-gloss, 4k then polish for gloss and high gloss.
Hello,
Im doing my first woodworking project a computer desk top from glued maple board (3/4" thick) and trimmed in purple heart ( 1-3/8 x 1-5/8 to give a thicker wood illusion).
What would you recommend for preserving the purple heart natural colour as long as possible I'm interested in the rubio but worried about further oxidisation and uv light effect on the desk. Mind you this will be going in a basement with decent amount of natural light but it should not see direct sunlight or at least not much of it. Should i be looking into lacquer instead for it uv proetection or possibly rubio hybrid or osmo outside version.
Also I would like to thickenthe mapple by glueing/screwing on a 1/4 peice of plywood under would this prevent or promote possible cupping. This will all be screw down a height adjustable steel base. By adding the plywood I would be able to use those thread insert without it 'im stuck using regular wood screws.
This demonstration and your previous rubio table restoration video were great help.
Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with Purple Heart so I can’t help you with that. As for gluing a piece of ply to the bottom of that hardwood top may end up causing more problems in the end as the panel would have no way to move at that point.
Really nice table. I am just about to finidh a new maple shaker kitchen doors, what is the best prodcut I can use? Rubio of Emtech?
Great idea on resawing the same board. I've used CV finishes, but they required mixing of an activator . Does the Target CV come premixed ?
No, you have to mix them.
Great video
Thanks
so after you apply the finish 3 times, you sand with 220 after each coat? and even for the final coat? -thanks
I don’t sand after the final coat
Can you do the same test for maple?
Great video, How long does rubio last on a kitchen table? Does the maintenance oil help? Maybe it’s a dumb question. I normally just use poly but wanted to branch out. I’ll also try a sanding seal on my next poly project. It made a difference. Thanks.
With Rubio, I think it lasts very well. However, if it’s being used heavily, with children, I think there are some better options mainly because the abuse they will get.
Nice video but what about scratch resistance and general wear? How about the ease of recoating? Hard to spray finish in someones's house. Maybe a penetrating oil finish has an advantage there? I find General's oil base gel coat is quite amazing for everything but kitchen cabinets. There is a huge difference if you're dong a table or kitchen cabinets. With cabinets, you absolutely have to have a finish resistant to water and stains.
Can’t do a durability test immediately after applying. Have plans for future videos on that.
you used Rubio walnut color on walnut wood. of course it didn't look much different. use walnut color on a lighter wood and then I think you'll start to understand how color tinting works.
Superbly helpful - thanks - I just used Rubio exterior on a white oak counter top that sits outside and very disappointed with the result - what should I test in my trial for outside wood given that I don’t want to use polyurethane ?
Rubio call it the Hybrid Wood Protector
I am about to do an oak outdoor table top and I will be doing Halcyon from total boat. Have heard good things.
@@bentswoodworking With your suggestion I tried the Halcyon on a white oak table - sanded to 240, the wood was 8% and gave it 8 coats of Halcyon - I like the rapid application but the first time the table got wet the water got through the varnish and lifted it (mostly at the knots) .... any suggestions? I have asked TotalBoat for their viewpoint
What i notice is the ones with sealers, you don't have open pores.
Have you given Odie’s Oil products a shot yet?
I have not
This was well worth the wait, thanks for this! Curious about the durability long term!
I would like to do a durability test as well
As walnut gets lighter with age I’m curious to see if the walnut Rubio ages differently then the pure.
Good question. I may have to do a project with it and see.
It's really hard for me to make heads or tails out of this because the side facing you looks like it has saw marks on all the pieces which makes the bottom half look darker but I don't really know if that's what I'm seeing because of marks? I'm watching this on a 30 inch TV screen so I have a clear view and I'm sorry to say but I came out of this with nothing and I'm really into different types of finishes in my stage of woodworking.
Have you done this with different wood species?
Not yet but I want too
Where do you buy your walnut? Which dimensions were those?
This was just a scrap piece that I resawed to thin pieces for the comparison
The amount of money invested in Festool is unreal holy crap lol. Great video though!
Glad you found it helpful
Start using some Centurion. Great results.
I’ll have to check it out
Try Rubio smoke 5% on red oak if you do a red oak video
I’ll definitely be doing a white oak video
dude talks alot
Thanks for sharing.