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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Full credit to @thanhlawd132 for this idea! I was recommended their video on my home feed and it was a really fun and inspiring fight that I just had to give it a try. I used Glintblade Phalanx extensively on my first character but I couldn't make it work on Malenia so guard-countering with GP support never crossed my mind until I saw the clip. This was so much fun!
Link the original video: • Elden ring How to chee...
They called it a cheese but I respectfully disagree because you're overcoming a challenging obstacle with ingenuity. Sure, you're "trivialising" the fight to a more manageable difficulty but you still have to know how to react in the fight(s). Dodge-rolling isn't the only approach to tackling what the game throws at you and variety is what's so fun about these games.
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YES! I recently did a paladin build in NG with Haligtree Shield and Longsword focused on guard counters and it was a lot of fun!
Very nice! I've always loved the Longsword and the Haligtree Greatshield is so beautiful but it clashes with the fashion for my magic knight. Guard counters are extremely viable in PvE because it lets you respond to hyper-aggressive enemies. It's even better when you use weapons that can also shield-poke!
This is exactly what I've been wanting to do as well! But I never thought that I could just use a longsword with it, I thought of greatmace or maybe holy order greatsword just for the flavour of it :P
I think the best thing about guard counter design-wise is that, unlike rolling, it's not your universal answer to every attack. It requires the player to learn startup animations and choose their defensive option from moment to moment, which is the thing I like the most about Sekiro.
It's not only viable. It's underrated
Glintblade phalanx poise damage insane. Cool build.
yep, time to start a new game with a Guard counter build
I already utilize them but the counter to that kick attack looked so clean. thanks for the tip!
that was so clean, you're a pro!!
Glad you liked it! :)
@@magnolia549 every move was perfectly calculated, I watched your other videos, can you can make one with gaint crusher, thank you 😊
I didn't see your reply but good news, I just did! I'll get it up on the channel when I've got the time later. :)
@@magnolia549 awesome!! looking forward to it, Thanks for posting! please keep up this good content!
It's up on the channel now. :)
ah, i see you too are a man of culture
Unpopular opinion here, fromsoft should remove invisibility frames from rolling, rolling is too unbalanced in my opinion, playing around proper spacing and keeping distance would make their games so much better, when i played DS 1 i was unaware of invisibility frames so i was trying to roll in certain direction to avoid attacks, it was hell since game was not desgined for this but it was fun.
That's awesome. Shame that they nerfed glinstone phalanx.....
Almost like they hate their players.
I finally tried a shield the other day, i have to begun to love them
Huh. I never really used guard counters in ER, this looks pretty good ngl. I personally resorted to using vow of the indomitable on the lightest shield I could find to "negate" waterfowl and just learned the rest of her moveset the hard way and dodge it.
Absolutely agree, this is not a cheeze. It's obvious you still had to learn her moveset and you're just using the tools the game gave you.
Honestly these days I'm convinced waterfowl was conceived just to mess with tryhards that think you have to learn to dodge everything. It's me, that was also me. I mean yeah, obviously you have learned it, but purely dodging waterfowl is something I think genuinely wasn't meant to be done reliably by someone who spends a normal amount of time playing this game.
The game has tools. Use them. Felt stupid after literally 3 days when I gave up when I realized I couldn't reliably dodge it and looked up strats to do it. Vow of the indomitable looked like a pretty easy way once learned the timing. Still always got hit once (in the first volley), but hey, it was a reliable way to survive it and it's better than banging your head against the wall. Your way here looks pretty cool, but I was usually out of stamina right on point when she used waterfowl (had less stamina and used a greatsword), so I decided not to try and block it.
Appreciate the well-thought feedback, thank you! Margit is a fantastic first boss because he teaches you both the value of utilising tools if you explore and stubborn repetition of banging your head against a wall; both approaches are valid. If Margit was the entrance exam, Malenia is the final exam to see if you really internalised what the game has been teaching you. If you think you can climb the wall with just your hands, legs and sheer will, go for it! But if you can't, that doesn't make you less of a person for relying on tools to help you get up the wall. What matters is that you didn't give up and that's what's so beautiful about these Souls games. They're difficult and obtuse, but fair at the same time.
I have an optimised Guard Counter build that improves on this setup if you're interested: th-cam.com/video/vAk70fQbX3s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MiDImsMRnwzHzA8h
I used Vow of the Indomitable and Barricade Shield on Malenia many times in the past and they're both fantastic defensive options for Waterfowl. Barricade Shield is a solid choice due to the reduced stamina damage, but I do think Vow is more reliable since Malenia can't heal during the invulnerability period. You'll always get nicked by the final hit of the first flurry because Vow ends a few frames before the flurry ends. The Kite Shield that I used has 61 Guard Boost at +25 so with 130 Stamina and the Greatshield Talisman, you can tank the first flurry with a bit of stamina left to dodge the second flurry.
I was a tryhard back in the Dark Souls 1 days and it turned me into a type of person I don't want to interact with so I've been chill since. I also have poor reflexes so dodging the way "pros" do is not something I can pull off so tools that alleviate and compensate for that deficiency is how I've been approaching these games and it's opened my eyes to the variety the game presents you and it's just been so much fun!
Makes sense when you think about it. Guard Counter is a new mechanic they introduced in Elden Ring. If they made it an non-viable playstyle it'd leave the wrong impression somehow, haha
Yeah, it makes no sense why people would think a new mechanic integral to the new game would be "useless". Not everything has, or should, be mindlessly used for it to be viable.
Based Barricade Shield Spearmen enjoyer.
46 Endurance is kind of nuts, what's the lowest amount you think I can get away with for a proper shield build?
Apologies for the late response. Don't mind the Endurance I used, I didn't have anywhere else to spend my points on so I dumped them into END.
The key thing to note is that stamina damage increases with each NG cycle. So if you're fighting Malenia in NG, a medium shield with maxed Guard Boost, Greatshield Talisman and 110 stamina is more than enough to tank every hit including WFD; barring the kick. If you want to play it even safer, Barricade Shield makes blocking a trivial affair. At NG+ and above, having 120 Stamina is the minimum you should have.
I use a guard counter build on a hammer with prayerful strike. I guard counter then when i get the stance break i hit them with prayerful strike to heal up the chip damage i recieved
That's a fantastic use of synergy that also does a lot of damage. The Greatshield Talisman is also a hidden gem for two-handed big weapons. What hammer did you use for your build?
This is insane! Never would have thought possible
Dude. I havent gotten to fight malenia yet but knowing you can block through the first part of waterfowl dance really makes me question why people hate that shit so much lmao
That's just the way things go. Malenia is undeniably difficult but people are irrational and emotional when they fail at something. Shields are looked down on by gatekeepers in the Souls community because it's seen as a crutch since they've historically been used in PvP by turtlers who refuse to fight back. So anyone who uses a shield is seen as a "lesser" player compared to someone who just dodges. They ignore potential benefits of certain tools because of ego. So when they lose often to something like WFD with dodging that's paraded as a superior mechanic, they're unable to process that maybe they're the ones making a mistake and instead point the finger at WFD for their failures. WFD does have some cheapness to it but lots of the online hatred for it are misdirected.
I've been around the Souls community since the original Demon's Souls, back in 2009, and over the years the dislike of shields has gone from ironic in-jokes to unironic hatred. It's similar to the way that Dexterity or Intelligence users are looked down on, mocked and openly-hated (unironically). It went from a meme back in DS1 and turned into a dogpile.
P.S. If you're looking for how to properly block the first flurry of WFD, you can refer to this video: th-cam.com/video/C_HysgTl_YQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=lGARdAz3T6pysfhz
I'm making a beginner's guide on how to learn and overcome her.
@@magnolia549 🐐
Love the idea of Guard Counters mixed with GP! I can’t get parrying down so this seems like a great idea. Thoughts on going rapier vs spear for the thrust and added crit scaling?
Apologies for the late reply! When it comes to guard counters, Spears are more effective due to the stance damage they do and the added benefit of range to ensure your counter isn't wasted. The Rapier's counter animation is faster but you have to be aware of the lower stance damage and shorter range. It ultimately depends on what you prefer and if you have enough stamina to block and counter; let alone do so repeatedly if possible.
Have you tried parrying with the Carian Retaliation AoW on a Medium shield with 100 physical damage block? It's a lot easier to parry with Carian Retaliation and you don't spend Mana with every parry unless you reflect a sorcery with it. I think Carian Retaliation is better than Golden Parry since you spend Mana with every Golden Parry even if you don't parry.
@@watchesvideosonline i have not but will be giving that a try.
you have luck
It's not luck.
This gives me hope, for I never beat Malenia on my own, since I stubbornly guard, deflect and counter.
Turns out that my Counter build was missing something
I get the feeling youve done this fight before
Is that meant to be some kind of criticism?
Which Spear is this?
That's the Clayman's Harpoon, you can farm it from the Claymen that use them in the Siofra and Ainsel underground rivers. I farmed mine from the two Claymen right by the Ainsel River Main grace site.
@@magnolia549 ok, I'd set a similar build up in ng+ but haven't gotten to malenia a 2nd time yet. Glad to see it works well against her. I have a frost claymans harpoon with glintblade phalanx.
@@ThomB1031 That's good to hear! Just remember that Glintblade Phalanx doesn't scale from your weapon but instead scales from your INT, upgrade level and weapon affinity. The follow-up thrust does scale from your weapon AR and INT scaling. If you don't care about damage from GB, you don't need to invest much into INT. But if you are and care about both parts of the skill, Magic affinity does best.
@@magnolia549 thanks, that makes sense.
For some reason 3 hits and she breaks my guard. I have shield talisman, turtle, medium shield with 62 guard boost. Not even close how she deals stamina damage to you. She still deletes me
From the sounds of it, you may need to increase your Endurance for more stamina, or slot in some talismans that increase your total max stamina. Another method to reduce stamina damage is to two-hand your shield; it works great against the first flurry of Waterfowl.
@@magnolia549 IDK im not a souls veteran , but even on 99 in every stat, full goat armor, best medium shield, she just shreds. She definitely needs healing nerf, WFD damage reduction by 70%
@@AJ_Zen It's not about being a "veteran". Malenia is a tricky boss and she's really difficult to punish and beat - that much is true - but you're over-exaggerating what she's capable of. I have plenty of proof on my channel where I beat Malenia with several different weapons and I don't have the "best" equipment and I'm blocking/countering with a "weaker" medium shield. At the end of the day, your equipment can only take you so far, it's the player that has to persevere and put in the effort to win; not the tools.
@@AJ_Zen use barricade shield ash for the first flurry, run and jump also works if you're not too greedy
@@AJ_Zen you suck man
what Spear is that?
Clayman's Harpoon!