Vince sending Butterbean like some sort of a hitman just to kill Bart Gunn's hard earned push was one of the most petty and despicables thing he has ever done
Really, really sad, man. What the hell was Bart Gunn supposed to do? If Vince and Co wanted Bart Gunn to put another wrestler over, then they should have booked a pro wrestling match and told Gunn to make his opponent look strong. But, instead, they put him in real Fight to the Death Brawl with a 75K cash prize. So the "wrong" guy won, and then they punished him. Makes. No. Damn. Sense.
@@agentfancypants1654 Precisely. If they wanted it to be done to hype up Dr. Death, why make it a shoot (besides Russo being a fucking moron)? Make it some sort of angle so Dr. Death looks like a badass But wanting to do a shoot, knowing what that meant, and then punishing Bart Gunn for doing what he was supposed to do and try to win is bullshit. Especially since Bart Gunn would have IMHO done pretty well in a high midcard role. I get him not being pushed to fight Austin because he wasn't that high up, but put him in the midcard, maybe in a program with Rock (who was IC champ at the time I believe) and let him win the IC title on the heels of Brawl for All as this "legitimate badass" sort of guy (similar to Steve Blackman/Dan Severn/Ken Shamrock type of gimmick, although it wasn't really a gimmick for those guys. You get what I mean) and see where it took him. Worst case scenario it doesn't take off, and he drops the belt back, best case it gives him some credibility and THEN he might get a program with Austin. But throwing him to the wolves out of revenge is ridiculous.
Vince is a piece of shit all round. He treats his workers like fucking slaves. If you get over in your own he buries ya. But if your a good little Slave and Master likes you then he will push you. Fuck Vince and Fuck the WWE. Hope he runs it right into the fucking ground.
Absolutely right Jake. However neither are completely right and neither are completely wrong. Russo did go with the times and Jerry Springer, edgy and trash TV was in. Cornette was out of touch and out of date, so the best outcome lies somewhere in the middle to have gotten the best product.
Butterbean himself said that if Bart tried to brawl with him there was still a 50-50 chance. But since Bart tried to BOX with him, he stood absolutely no chance.
Im not sure why he even entered it. Shamrock never entered and mentioned he had nothing to gain from being in it and that it would be unfair to the other guys. Same would have applied for Severn so it’s weird that he was ever in it. But the entire thing was a debacle in almost every possible way.
@@Matt-cr4vv they came to Dan last minute and paid a high price. Shamrock thought they were setting Dan up by not giving him time to train, they talked about it on a shoot interview together
Ken can claim he would have had an unfair advantage all he wants... he would not have.. his boxing through out his mma career was below average.. neither Severn nor Ken were good boxers..
Cornette won't allow for that. He has said time and time again that whenever anyone tries to do something getting him and Russo together in the same place, he'll decline it. Then he wants that person or people/company to call Russo afterwards to let Russo know how much money Jim just declined and how much money Russo is losing out on. It would have to be A LOT of money, and probably with security involved/near/around (not Jim's preference) to ever have them in the same Building again. That the closest you'd get is things like what they did for the Brawl For All episode, where each one is at home and they'll get some snippets the other said for them to talk about. But an Episode strictly based around and heavily involving both of them won't happen...Jim won't allow it.
The only way Cornette will meet Russo is if there are no witnesses, no cops, no lawyers, and no video recordings. And after a few days, Russo's family would have to file a missing person report.
Jim Cornette was the BEST part of the brawl for all Dark Side. When he looked at the camera and said how much wrestling has meant to him. It freaking GOT ME! I love when he's genuine like that it's so relatable 👍
For me, it was how emotional he got speaking on Droz & how accidents like that could happen anytime to anyone, and how that alone makes him resent the Russos of the world who don’t think anything bad can happen
What pissed me off on the new episode of dark side of the Ring. Was when Vince Russo was smiling as he explain how Jim Cornett even was acting and tell him how it's just wrestling, but then when Jim Cornett speak how much wrestling was his life and you see the sincerity in his face, it pissed me off on how much Russo shows his true colors in his interview. I can see why he's constantly being threatened on a daily basis on podcast.
John Eastwood Jim Cornette kept himself alive through wrestling, it’s his life because it’s how he pays his bills. Some people respect the hard work they’ve put into something. What do you do with *your* worthless life... ?
@@JoeServo There should be more important things in a mans life than fake wrestling. It's not like Cornette has even made that much money from it, most people have never even heard of him.
So did I! Just imagine being in the writer’s room: They’re talking about a fatal 4-way between HBK, Austin, The Rock & HHH to see who fights Undertaker at the next pay per view for the world title; The New Age Outlaws vs The New Midnight Express in an NWA rules “Texas Tornado” match to unify the tag belts; Mankind vs Vader in a no DQ cage match; and then Russo blows that bakery shit out of his ass! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
First thing that came to mind when he said that was a Corny Drive Thru episode where Jim was going off on hardcore and extreme wrestling and was like, “A toolbox or 1 table under the ring is one thing but why do they have a cookie sheet there?” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I gotta admit though, the grocery store fight with Austin against Booker T was classic and I still find it hilarious even to this day, in a good way, lol.
MJ J Believing that a guy would win a shoot fight just because he’s a shooter is fucking dumb. to be so confident and short sighted to assume Dr.Death was guaranteed the win and to build all your future plans around that chance was ridiculous and screams ignorance of competition fighting from anyone who believed it.
@@constantine666ad yes it was in hindsight (and the perception came from those who didn't know any better. The actual shootfighters (Severn and Shamrock) knew better).
Even Butterbean said he was brought in as punishment. He said he asked Vince McMahon “do you want me to lose and get Bart over?” And Vince told him “no, go out and do what you do”
Why was Dr Death favored in a shoot tournament that had Dan Severn and Steve Blackman in the initial roster. How far up their asses did the people planning this thing have their heads?!
Exactly. Funny how they were both removed from the tournament. Death was JR's boy and JR did have significant power in the offices at that time. Anyone who claims otherwise is either deluding themselves or covering for JR here.
Short answer, Steve Williams was well known for being one tough bastard. Especially when it involved fighting an angry crowd of drunken cowboys in the middle of a wrestling riot.
Wasn't it implied that Bart was willing to put Dr. Death over but JR and others told him to actually do his best, laughing it off, even if it was inwardly because they never thought he could lose?
Palmer, and if he was there none of them would beat Meng. Not then, not now. Not ever. And if someone had hired him and added him into this bracket everyone else would have quit.
Thats why Jim is a legendary wrestling manager, a legendary wrestling announcer, a legendary wrestling promoter, a legendary wrestling trainer (OVW), a legendary wrestling booker and an all-around wrestling legend while Russo is just a flash-in-the-pan with one good year in the wrestling business and 20 years of failure. Russo is a joke
@@brettbrooks2495 well when you consider that Butterbean at the time was an undefeated amateur boxer with a background of being insanely aggressive in his fights, its not hard to assume that he was being sent to literally take someone out.
@@ivenstorm he was a toughman contest winner who fiought handpicked opposition he never even had an amateur fight. He was a gimmick, but a gimmick who could still throw a punch
@@MrT571 I know about Dr Death NOW. But for me during the Brawl for All I was 8 and all I knew was that Dr Death was popular but also was beat by Bart.
@@kylelikeskjvbible I rethought my comment and realized i was being rather harsh to those who didn't have the opportunity at the time. But guys like the post creator are the ones I'm most referring to, who have wealths of opportunity and cling to ignorance.
Ken didn’t want to do this because it took so long for him to build up trust with the boys, he wasn’t going to risk throwing that all away by hurting one of them in a real fight where he had an obvious unfair advantage. Plus the money wasn’t right.
@@jimmirogers3485 ummmmm… you know they both fought for real, right? That IS an advantage. And Brawl For All wasn’t boxing. It had takedowns allowed. And Ken wasn’t a boxer, that’s true, but he still had better REAL striking than anyone else in Brawl for All except for maybe Steve Blackman.
Much as he blamed Russo for all this, Vince is the one that gave it the final approval and kept it going. So Vince is just as much, if not more, to blame.
I like Dr. Death. I appreciate his work. JR and Corny are out of their minds still thinking Dr. Death would have caught on during this era against Stone Cold after all these years. Let it go already.
Finally someone talking sense ! 1998 Austin was on fire so let's put him with a guy that's clearly past it ammm no it would have been the drizzling shits ! On what planet would dr death been In a main event feud with stone cold at this time when you had taker,kane, shamrock, mankind , rock etc
Dr. Death was FAR past his prime by the time he got there. A lot of the WWF crowd who only knew WWF T.V. didn't know or care who Doc was. I agree 100% with everything you said. Doc was not over with that crowd and in that style of Wrestling.
Yeah they would've TRIED Doc and it would've fallen flat. Honestly if they had brought him in as a wrestler and built him up the normal way, they would've seen that and backed off. MAYBE given him like a B ppv shot. But that's it.
That's nonsense this is a very different time compared to the attitude era . The WWF fans at that point wouldn't of bought it no way in hell , are you forgetting that wcw was still beating raw in the ratings every week do you really think Dr death was in any way shape or form going to contribute to the WWF coming back on top !? No it was interesting characters that the fans bought into to along with some risks . plus in what world was Dr death ever a star the magnitude of a bill Goldberg or undertaker !!? 😑🙄🤐
I tried to watch this episode of Dark Side as impartially as possible, so I reserved my judgements about Russo and looked at the story from a neutral point of view. After about 20 mins, I could see why Jim wants to murder this guy.
@@KindaShort he didn't ruin any careers. These are grown man that made their own decisions. How did Droz get paralyzed? That's right a good old-fashioned wrestling match. People get hurt in wrestling more today
@@heel420 Savio Vega & Mark Canterbury had to retire, Hawk's drug problem got worse, The Godfather and Dr Death got legit hurt and were out for months. Not to mention Bart got punished for winning and was barely mentioned again. Lol were you even alive in 98?
I've heard Steve Blackman talk about this. He asked if kicking was legal, and was told it was. And he was like 'whelp I've won then', and started training fight style for it, and then they changed their minds much to his annoyance.
If I had a time machine, I'd tell Steve Blackman to not mention kicks for the brawl for all. If it's gonna be the shit show that it was, let's at least see Blackman throwing kicks. Entertainment value goes up instantly. He'd win if he doesn't get hurt
Bart Gunn will always be one of the most underrated wrestlers ever. Guy legitimately knocked out some of the toughest men from the 90s including Doctor Death. He should’ve been treated better.
@@donkiddick966 No. That's just Jim saying. Problem with Bart is he had been booked as a midcard guy you that you couldn't push. He was too damaged to push into the main-event.
Bart won not only because of his power, but because he threw straight 1,2s right down the middle which he'd get off faster than the slower looping hooks and overhands that everyone else was throwing. NOBODY in it had any defense or head movement whatsoever, so the faster offense wins.
They screwed Bart Gunn BAD! The man knocked out their tough guys, including their prized horse, and then he’s fed to the lions (BB) because they didn’t know what to do with him. Bullshit.
And me in my amateur mind watching Dark Side Of The Ring and the Brawl 4 All, I came up with something literally on the spot! You take Bart and you take Steve Williams and you build a feud from there (Dr. Death is pissed that this nobody knocked him out) they go into a program which leads to a PPV match Then from there you continue to build Bart Gunn (I can see a heel) as this tough that says nobody can touch him, he's destroying people right and left and even calls out Butterbean (Which leads to the Wrestlemania match up) and maybe he becomes Intercontinental Champion along the way and ultimately gets that program with Austin after a run in the mid-card
They tried to do it with Danial Bryan Viscera when he did is own sexual chocolate gimmick and it was getting to big. Damian Sandow. Anytime some one who catches fire and can be a big star if that’s not what they envisioned they squash. Then they wonder why they don’t have guys that draw. Cause the push people nobody cares about.
That why I roll my eyes when they say wrestlers won't get punished if they speak their or getting over by themselves Bart Gunn got himself over but enough for them to put him aside and punished for it if unexpected player make a Impact on the team the coach is going to going to push or use that player no matter what WWE seems to Reverse that
@@siontimmy1 he wasn't punished. They just didn't know what to do with him once he won, in their minds Dr. Death had the Brawl 4 All won and when Bart shocked everyone they didn't know what to do
i was close, it was very intense. i had to pause and let it sink in. cause then my memories of cornette took over. first time i saw him was at wm10, then some in your house ppvs. managing yoko, bulldog and owen, later vader too. man i hated him. such a prick. then i got older and started to understand things, researched stuff on the net, read about his start in the biz, about his manager career, smw, writing, booking, and yeah, there is a man, who dedicated all his life to his greatest passion. i like corny, he is entertaining and knowledgeable as fuck, i dont always agree with him and think he should relax more. but sometimes i get it, when people ridicule the one thing you love, and have made the main content of your life, it is easy to get angry.
I'm one of those who was like "why is Russo so bad?" but after watching Dark Side Of The Ring, I get it (Brawl For Was a year or so before I watched wrestling, only saw the final at Wrestlemania 15) what a dick
Watch the Nitro shit he & Ed Ferraria did where they made fun of JR after his Bells Palsy. I didn't know how bad this living Piece of Shit was/is, then but after I saw what they were doing I thought "I hope to God both of them die badly." I still do, and if Corny cant get his wife to help get to Russo's grave I'll take him there at the time to piss on Russo's grave.
Cavillier1970 what a fucking horrible thing to say about anybody shame on you , your life must be terrible and for that I feel sorry for you, JR and Russo are cool all has been forgiven, Russo has admitted it was his biggest regret, its wrestling that’s all it is it means nothing the man is a father and a grandfather and you represent everything that’s wrong with social media.
I actually think Russo is sicker than that...editing was his friend there. If he was watching the matches in order then he would have said the stuff about CTE earlier on since that quote came while he was watching an earlier match in the tournament. Bradshaw got knocked out in the final round so he said all that and then was forgot what he said celebrating Bradshaw getting knocked out
Also, Steve Blackman and Dan Severn would have defeated Dr Death. Athleticism-wise DR Death had a ton of wear and tear, the guy barely scraped past one-eyed PCO
Besides he was big in Japan but the casual fans didn't know or care about that. Fans never saw his work in Japan unless they tape traded or read about it in the mags. No TH-cam in 1998. Still the casual fans wouldn't care about something they never saw since it happened in another country.
Though 10 year old me did read any wrestling mag I saw in the newsstands and would get glimpses of who's who in Japan like Leatherface. I remember seeing a picture of Giant Baba's widow standing in the ring next to a pair of his big boots during a tribute segment.
@@thekidfromiowa and thanks to throwing him into this as a recent acquisition killed any chance at building him up as a main eventer. Besides they could've played vignettes to build him up using his work in Japan.
I usually agree with Jim, but Dr. Death was not going to be anything in the WWE. He was too injured already before even getting there, older, and had no personality. In Japan he was over because they like that "tough guy" image, but in WCW he was just a guy part of a tag team. Plus, Dr. Death wasn't going to win 'Brawl for All' anyway. He had trouble with a one eyed guy (PCO) in the first round...
Dr. Death has a well deserved reputation as a top tier talent in his own right, but as I said in another comment, I just can't picture him on top in the Attitude Era. He was just too old school for the direction they were going at the time. It would have been "one of these things is not like the others" comparing him to the top of the card in that period.
I could see Dr. Death working a program against Austin. But it would have to be handled very carefully. Ideally in this hypothetical case, he would be the heavy bruiser brought in by Mr. McMahon to do the damage to Austin in continuing that rivalry. In much the same way they utilized the Big Bossman. If they hadn’t botched the whole thing up with the BFA… they could have introduced him quickly (for an impact at a critical moment) probably pairing him up with Bossman to “punish” Austin for “Crossing the Boss” in a series of blatant “screw jobs” then they could have built him up that way, as the big bruiser/heavy hitter for the corporation to one on one with Austin. But that’s just my opinion on the matter.
I know that Dr. Death has a (well deserved) reputation in the business, but I honestly have a hard time picturing him as a top guy during the Attitude Era. He was just too old school to fit in with what was going on at that time.
Absolutely he had no fucking business being in a feud with austin in 1998 ! Those days were long gone it was a different time that would of drew horribly
Thats why I will always side with Corny, because when he talks classic wrestling he's a brilliant story teller. These stories would be lost forever without people like Cornette
Although Butterbean was a so called "Gimmick" i just dont understand knowing he was still a professional boxer for x number of years thinking somehow someway that Bart was going to beat him in an actual boxing match.. Idk Corny.. They may have been punishment if you really peel back the layers.. Especially if they were pushing for Dr Death to win
Vince and co. have no clue about boxing. Think about how many fake tough guy morons legitimately believed McGregor had a chance against Mayweather. Those are the exact same kind of people as Vince and co. Boxing is a science and a lot of people think it’s just punching power and footwork.
Well, Butterbean (possibly just being humble) did say Bart would've had a 50/50 chance of beating him if he'd have just brawled with him (like Bart did with the others), as opposed to trying to be a "technical" boxer. 3 round fights aren't made for boxers who really know how to box; 3 round fights are made for brawlers. I'll still always say McMahon is an unethical piece of trash, and how he "rewarded" Bart Gunn stands as proof. Corny has a weird obsession with Russo, so of course, he lays all the blame on Russo for everything that went wrong, letting McMahon off the hook. Russo actually wanted to make Bart Gunn a big star after he won the Brawl for All, but Corny thought that idea was absurd.
Fav part was seeing how Russo called wrestling just wrestling and see jim go it isn't just wrestling , wrestling is my life and the look in his eyes showed me that he's like me ,when someone says same stuff about wrestling and how mad I get about it , no matter how many years go by we are wrestling fans that love wrestling... something Russo will never understand
The crazy thing is that Butterbean had just had a fight the month before the bout with Bart and would have another the month after, so he was fighting at a whirlwind pace when he pulverized Bart.
77 wins 10 losses, I don't know much about the guy but anyone with a brain can see that putting that up against an untrained in boxing pro wrestler is a horrendously bad idea
I love Jim Cornette, but he is so set in his ways even in the face of objective reality. Dr Death (both Jim and JR are huge marks for Steve Williams) gets knocked out. JC response : "Well, it was because of this, that and the other thing, so he was knocked out but not really" Arn Anderson (JC is a huge AA mark) starts a fight with Sid, while intoxicated and looses the fight and ends up with the scissors he was trying to stab Sid with, lodged in his stomach. JC response : "Well, Arn didn't really start the fight and didn't really loose it ... and .. yeah, f*#k Sid !!! I love it when Jim calls out others on their bullshit and yet there is no one to call him out on his own
Based on the quote and Bradshaw's position as a mid carder, I can very easily imagine him saying "If this was real I could kick the ass of everyone in the locker room!" It sounds like something a POTENTIAL locker room bully would say!
@@SamsarasArtWhy do I feel he his humor and personality just didn’t jive well with others and that made people think he was a bully, treat him like a bully, turning him into a fucking bully? JBL, from the sounds of it, just sounds like a southern man doing banter.
I believe Jim is right, as there is a story of how Bradshaw got battered by Steve Blackman and the only way he got let off the hook was Blackman made him apologise to him in front of the entire locker room. It’s funny how Bart Gunn basically got punished for winning.
The most shocking revelation? Didn’t even come in the episode, but from the Dark Side of the Podcast, where the producers talk about someone that was with the company mentioned that Vince wanted to bring Brawl for All back as that was what the original plan for NXT was back when it was the game show type deal that replaced WWECW & he had to be talked out of doing it
Not current NXT, this was back when they first launched it in 2010 so it would've been with Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett, Justin Gabriel, Heath Slater, Skip Sheffield (Ryback), Michael Tarver, Darren Young & David Otunga but luckily people talked Vince out of doing it
@@flame9118 Barrett would’ve probably beat everybody not counting “maybe” Daniel Bryan as Barrett was a former bareknuckle boxer but once again had they done it like this all bets would’ve been off
To me even if he ddnt get hurt ,dr death was never gonna get over with the fans because he didn't have the swag ,charisma or the promos like Austin and rock or Mick Foley
It's astounding that people say Russo isn't crazy when instead of having an angle(? Idk what to call the bfa) to get one person over, he (at least according to the man himself) had one with the goal of doing the exact opposite and involved a bunch more guys in it as well as Bradshaw.
Should’ve made Bart Gunn an enforcer for Shane McMahon or something like that. Not a top of the card push but it’s better than feeding him to Butterbean
For godsake would you people stop deluding yourself on Bart Gunn. He was a mid card/lower card tag team guy, that's it. He had virtually no charisma to speak of, he wasn't particularly good on the mic, and he was only average in the ring. The fact he knocked out a load of guys on his level in a tournament that nobody gave two hits about did NOTHING for him because NOBODY CARED. Cornette said this in the pod cast if you muppets actually listened to it. Bart Gunn was NEVER going to become a star in the WWF no matter what you did because he wasn't that damn good.
I think Vinny Mac not being blamed equally for the abomination of the Brawl For All is just criminal. It makes you question those claims of him being a "genius" (which he's not, just a man with a napoleon complex) if he couldn't come up with any other way of getting a guy over to face Austin.
Vince Russo is the idiot that pitched the idea. Vince McMahon, the 'higher power' of the WWE that finalizes all decisions that come across him, enabled it. Vince Russo gets all of the blame, somehow. Russo gets a nice half chunk of the blame and not a thing in Vince McMahon's head ever thought "well, that's a shitty idea pal". I bet Vince McMahon went "THAT'S GOOD SHIT!".
I literally just learned about this from DSotR. I asked my mom if she ever heard of it (she watched wrestling from the 80's to the 2000's) and at first she said yes, but when I described it she immediately said no. I think she was thinking of a Battle Royale or something and said that if WWE ever did a boxing thing (which they did obviously) it would be stacked against the wrestlers and not work. Imagine an event so poorly managed that even people who actually watched wrestling at the time didn't know about it or just straight up forgot it...
This is the exact reason Vince McMahon calls his product “sports entertainment” to avoid athletic commissions and their licensing. So absolutely it was in a legal gray area at the very least.
What I still don’t understand is why they decided to put Dr. Death in the brawl for all when upper management considered him a top prospect and had the intentions of giving him a massive push. I thought the whole point of the brawl for all was to take guys who had “nothing to lose” because they didn’t wanna risk the reputations of their top stars?
It was probably some McMahon logic that the WWF audience wouldn't know who Dr. Death was. So this was a different way to "introduce" him. He kills some guys in "real" fights then jumps in front if the line to face Austin.
Bart Gunn absolutely was punished. Corny is trying to justify it by rightfully pointing out Bart wasn't ready for that push. However, they could have given him a smaller mid-card push. Instead they let him twist in the wind for months and then fed him to Butterbean effectively killing his career in the WWF.
My favorite part of the thing was when a promotion tried to book a rematch with Gunn and Esch, and Gunn wouldn't do it unless he had six months to train for the fight. Gunn is smart. I hope he's doing well, now.
Cornette has been awesome on Darkside of the ring. Remember watching Brawl for All and thinking it was a work to put Dr Death over. Was shocked when he got knocked out
I have to say , Cornette and the rest of the office fumbled a golden nugget that came from the nightmare that was brawl for all. I was in middle school when that happened , and Bart was OVER. Nobody cared who doctor death was . Most people thought it was a joke that Dr death was there anyway , because he looked out of shape and got destroyed , and JR had put him over so hard. Bart was still young enough to appeal to kids...believe me , I know because I listened to the talk. Bart was the most legit badass on the roster as far as many people were concerned. He was primed for a heel run until the Butterbean knockout , and possibly even after , because most people I know don't remember what happened to Bart Gunn. What a shame.
Jim saying 'Bart didn't get punished" is absolutely stupid because after Bart Gunn won, they went up to him saying 'you weren't supposed to win this, so at Wrestlemania, you're gonna face Butterbean in a boxing match'. THAT'S a form of punishment because they were setting Dr Death Steve Williams up to win it.
Oh come on... how would Doctor Death get passed Dan Severn of he didn't back out? Not to mention, one would never know who would win in a tough man competition. To think that Steve Williams would win automatically, then already fantasize about him doing a program with Austin is absurd. It would be safe to say that absolutely no around at that time in the WWF understood the concept of real fighting. They were all acting like marks. Just saying that: 'Doctor Death would have won if he didn't tear his hamstring while falling awkwardly' is laughable. Those are the kind of excuses MMA guys laugh at. And those are the kind of scenarios come with the territory of actual fighting. That just proves that Steve was not athletic by MMA standards (at least not at that time of his life).Trust me, it's quite obvious that Bart was buried after that and shame on those who did it. Bart did nothing wrong. The WWF turned a real life situation, that they could not control, and was not favorable for them and they turned it into a work. They punished Bart by feeding him to Butterbean. Talk about immature. Trust me, most fans who watched this documentary will be on Bart's side and now we all know how the WWF screwed him over.
Chris_Gullett well you can say all of that but at the end of the day your party is run by people who deny climate change. So you can only go so far on that horse hahah
Chris_Gullett ok sorry sir I didn’t know I was talking to a scientist and political guru. You are right we don’t have to worry about any impact we do to the planet we can do whatever we want and not have to worry about what it might do to generations after us. I’m so so sorry sir
I remember the Brawl for All vividly. I remember when it came on the telly thinking "this isn't wrestling, someone is gonna get hurt" and I wasn't wrong. It was a really bad idea from the very beginning!
Jim, there's one thing that should be said about Butterbean's role in all of this. He was an immensely popular pop culture figure (especially in the midwest) during the time of the Brawl For All, due to tough man competitions enjoying a large spike in popularity during the mid 1990s. My belief had always been that WWF used Butterbean because of the notoriety he had been receiving in the mainstream media at that time, and simply wanted to cash in on his popularity as well. Great video!
So this is just more excuses for Dr.Death and misusing Bart Gunn, the visual of Bart knocking out people left and right is enough for some kind of push, JR was part to blame too imo.
Vince sending Butterbean like some sort of a hitman just to kill Bart Gunn's hard earned push was one of the most petty and despicables thing he has ever done
owen hart : hold my rope
Really, really sad, man.
What the hell was Bart Gunn supposed to do?
If Vince and Co wanted Bart Gunn to put another wrestler over, then they should have booked a pro wrestling match and told Gunn to make his opponent look strong.
But, instead, they put him in real Fight to the Death Brawl with a 75K cash prize.
So the "wrong" guy won, and then they punished him.
Makes. No. Damn. Sense.
@@agentfancypants1654 Precisely. If they wanted it to be done to hype up Dr. Death, why make it a shoot (besides Russo being a fucking moron)? Make it some sort of angle so Dr. Death looks like a badass But wanting to do a shoot, knowing what that meant, and then punishing Bart Gunn for doing what he was supposed to do and try to win is bullshit. Especially since Bart Gunn would have IMHO done pretty well in a high midcard role.
I get him not being pushed to fight Austin because he wasn't that high up, but put him in the midcard, maybe in a program with Rock (who was IC champ at the time I believe) and let him win the IC title on the heels of Brawl for All as this "legitimate badass" sort of guy (similar to Steve Blackman/Dan Severn/Ken Shamrock type of gimmick, although it wasn't really a gimmick for those guys. You get what I mean) and see where it took him. Worst case scenario it doesn't take off, and he drops the belt back, best case it gives him some credibility and THEN he might get a program with Austin. But throwing him to the wolves out of revenge is ridiculous.
Vince is a piece of shit all round. He treats his workers like fucking slaves. If you get over in your own he buries ya. But if your a good little Slave and Master likes you then he will push you. Fuck Vince and Fuck the WWE. Hope he runs it right into the fucking ground.
Second worst thing Vince McMahon has done. Second only to Montreal.
Russo: Bro, it's just wrestling
Corny: Wrestling has been the most important thing in my life
Therein lies the conflict
As much as Russo says bro I have to think he's paid per time lol...nobody should say any word that often!
@@horrorfan4-life689 shut up bro
@@horrorfan4-life689 Can you imagine a conversation between Russo and Matt Riddle? 😂
Absolutely right Jake. However neither are completely right and neither are completely wrong. Russo did go with the times and Jerry Springer, edgy and trash TV was in. Cornette was out of touch and out of date, so the best outcome lies somewhere in the middle to have gotten the best product.
Jake Betts therein, not “there in”.
Bart actually went on to win a pro MMA fight against Wesley “Cabbage” Carrera and tried to get a rematch with Butterbean. The man deserves respect
that 21-16 jobber that beat nobody
@@chrischar1969 sounds like he beat 21 people.
@@TheGM-20XX And lost to 16.
@@SovereignStatesman 21 is more than nobody there Newton.
@@TheGM-20XX LOL "more then"
Give Bart his credit man. He won that thing fair and square. Showed real cojones and real knockout power.
Then they fed him to Butterbean.
And after they had been taunting him backstage
Guarantee you that Bart today would destroy Butterbean. The guy just looks like he’s living better than everyone else who was involved.
Butterbean himself said that if Bart tried to brawl with him there was still a 50-50 chance. But since Bart tried to BOX with him, he stood absolutely no chance.
@@AxeDharme Unfortunately they changed the rules to turn it in to a boxing match. He really got hosed with the whole ordeal.
Dan Severn bailing after his round one victory was both very intelligent and says a lot about how this was organized
Oh
Oo o
Im not sure why he even entered it. Shamrock never entered and mentioned he had nothing to gain from being in it and that it would be unfair to the other guys. Same would have applied for Severn so it’s weird that he was ever in it. But the entire thing was a debacle in almost every possible way.
@@Matt-cr4vv they came to Dan last minute and paid a high price. Shamrock thought they were setting Dan up by not giving him time to train, they talked about it on a shoot interview together
Ken can claim he would have had an unfair advantage all he wants... he would not have.. his boxing through out his mma career was below average.. neither Severn nor Ken were good boxers..
Oh god I’d give up my life savings of 20 whole dollars to see Jim Cornette Vs. Vinnie Russo in a hell in a cell match!
Nah 1 final BFA fight with corny vs Russo
Scaffolding match winner takes all
@@SuperMarry23 why bott the tennis racket
Is there any way someone could send you some money? I don't like the thought of you only having $20 🙁
@@MRFORD-nc5wg Random question, do you have any spare cash? Might be nice if a few of us chip in to help our fellow wrestling fan.
The idea that Doctor Death would beat Dan Severn is laughable
Dr Death in his prime would have a chance.
Well neither were trained boxers that fought with the big gloves.
Two freestyle college wrestlers in a shoot? Hey it would be a good fight.
standing Dan has a advantage, but if it went to the ground that's a toss up.
Dan Severn wasn't a striker. So in a stand up fight its anyones game between them 2. Dan was a guy that would take you down and submit people.
@@MrJjburgess11 yeah but Dan had the ufc experience, shitty stand up or not he was trained for it until he got get a opponent down.
I feel like the whole Dark Side show is building up to the series finale which will be a 2-hour flame war between Corny and Russo.
Cornette won't allow for that. He has said time and time again that whenever anyone tries to do something getting him and Russo together in the same place, he'll decline it. Then he wants that person or people/company to call Russo afterwards to let Russo know how much money Jim just declined and how much money Russo is losing out on.
It would have to be A LOT of money, and probably with security involved/near/around (not Jim's preference) to ever have them in the same Building again. That the closest you'd get is things like what they did for the Brawl For All episode, where each one is at home and they'll get some snippets the other said for them to talk about. But an Episode strictly based around and heavily involving both of them won't happen...Jim won't allow it.
And full shoot with Jim and shitstain saying bro 20 thousand fuckin times!!
The only way Cornette will meet Russo is if there are no witnesses, no cops, no lawyers, and no video recordings. And after a few days, Russo's family would have to file a missing person report.
@@chwenhoou Cornette would probably have a heart attack. Probably going to happen soon anyways.
It's kind of getting boring now with his hatred of Russo. The only good thing to hear between the two would be an open debate.
Butter bean could hit like a ton of bricks. But was the real life King Hippo
😂😂😂
Hippo was a tough SOB.. It took me ages to eventually beat him!
"Very good but Brick not hit back"
To see him now hobbling around on his cane must make Gunn feel like the long term winner. Lol.
BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP!
Jim Cornette was the BEST part of the brawl for all Dark Side. When he looked at the camera and said how much wrestling has meant to him. It freaking GOT ME! I love when he's genuine like that it's so relatable 👍
exactly my feelings too.
For me, it was how emotional he got speaking on Droz & how accidents like that could happen anytime to anyone, and how that alone makes him resent the Russos of the world who don’t think anything bad can happen
Crotch sniffer
What pissed me off on the new episode of dark side of the Ring. Was when Vince Russo was smiling as he explain how Jim Cornett even was acting and tell him how it's just wrestling, but then when Jim Cornett speak how much wrestling was his life and you see the sincerity in his face, it pissed me off on how much Russo shows his true colors in his interview. I can see why he's constantly being threatened on a daily basis on podcast.
If wrestling is your life then you need one.
John Eastwood Jim Cornette kept himself alive through wrestling, it’s his life because it’s how he pays his bills. Some people respect the hard work they’ve put into something.
What do you do with *your* worthless life... ?
@@JoeServo There should be more important things in a mans life than fake wrestling. It's not like Cornette has even made that much money from it, most people have never even heard of him.
@@johneastwood3039 Cornette's net worth it's like 5 million dollars, so I don't know what are you talking about.
@@RandalfElVikingo He was born rich wasn't he? With a rich mother, or was that just his wrestling gimmick?
"What about a fight in a bakery?" After hearing that I lost it. Lol.
That was the most random shit I ever heard, I was laughing so hard at that too :)
So did I! Just imagine being in the writer’s room: They’re talking about a fatal 4-way between HBK, Austin, The Rock & HHH to see who fights Undertaker at the next pay per view for the world title; The New Age Outlaws vs The New Midnight Express in an NWA rules “Texas Tornado” match to unify the tag belts; Mankind vs Vader in a no DQ cage match; and then Russo blows that bakery shit out of his ass! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
First thing that came to mind when he said that was a Corny Drive Thru episode where Jim was going off on hardcore and extreme wrestling and was like, “A toolbox or 1 table under the ring is one thing but why do they have a cookie sheet there?” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I gotta admit though, the grocery store fight with Austin against Booker T was classic and I still find it hilarious even to this day, in a good way, lol.
To say Dr. Death would've won with different rules seems like a copout, he got knocked the f@@k out...rules or no...
Except that's not what was said. Try again
MJ J Believing that a guy would win a shoot fight just because he’s a shooter is fucking dumb. to be so confident and short sighted to assume Dr.Death was guaranteed the win and to build all your future plans around that chance was ridiculous and screams ignorance of competition fighting from anyone who believed it.
@@mjj6682 Yeah, he literally said Dr. Death lost because of "stupid" rules. No retry necessary.
@@richardwilliams5387 he literally said the perception in that era was that Dr Death could win any shoot fight. So TRY AGAIN. You can do it buddy!!
@@constantine666ad yes it was in hindsight (and the perception came from those who didn't know any better. The actual shootfighters (Severn and Shamrock) knew better).
"He wasn't punished"
Yeah, bullshit, I'm sure the Butterbean idea would beg to differ
Even Butterbean said he was brought in as punishment. He said he asked Vince McMahon “do you want me to lose and get Bart over?” And Vince told him “no, go out and do what you do”
You call that a legitimate punishment? You think that spineless douche gave a crap that Bart Gunn was obliterated??
Why was Dr Death favored in a shoot tournament that had Dan Severn and Steve Blackman in the initial roster. How far up their asses did the people planning this thing have their heads?!
Exactly. Funny how they were both removed from the tournament. Death was JR's boy and JR did have significant power in the offices at that time. Anyone who claims otherwise is either deluding themselves or covering for JR here.
Short answer, Steve Williams was well known for being one tough bastard. Especially when it involved fighting an angry crowd of drunken cowboys in the middle of a wrestling riot.
Dr Death would never beat Dan Severn in a shoot...Never...
Wasn't it implied that Bart was willing to put Dr. Death over but JR and others told him to actually do his best, laughing it off, even if it was inwardly because they never thought he could lose?
Palmer, and if he was there none of them would beat Meng. Not then, not now. Not ever. And if someone had hired him and added him into this bracket everyone else would have quit.
Loved the passion Jim showed on Dark Side.
What makes Cornette one of a kind!
He was mad when he said wrestling is the most important thing in his life
Thats why Jim is a legendary wrestling manager, a legendary wrestling announcer, a legendary wrestling promoter, a legendary wrestling trainer (OVW), a legendary wrestling booker and an all-around wrestling legend while Russo is just a flash-in-the-pan with one good year in the wrestling business and 20 years of failure. Russo is a joke
peryk2 man fuck Vince Russo lol 🖕🏻
@@darealgodzilla what ate you on about? Russo is a God of wrestling.
Jim Butter Bean himself said on Dark Side that he was sent to fight Bart at WM as punishment for winning
Wats WM
@@christophercruz1513 wrestlemania?
That's just what he assumed. He didnt flat out say it.
@@brettbrooks2495 well when you consider that Butterbean at the time was an undefeated amateur boxer with a background of being insanely aggressive in his fights, its not hard to assume that he was being sent to literally take someone out.
@@ivenstorm he was a toughman contest winner who fiought handpicked opposition he never even had an amateur fight. He was a gimmick, but a gimmick who could still throw a punch
Its 2020 and people are still trying to put over Dr. Death.
lmao
Most of us know about Dr. Death only because he got f’ed up by Bart Gunn.
Wrong. Those of us who are actual wrestling fans know him from his great run in the Watts territories. Try again?
@@MrT571 I know about Dr Death NOW. But for me during the Brawl for All I was 8 and all I knew was that Dr Death was popular but also was beat by Bart.
@@kylelikeskjvbible I rethought my comment and realized i was being rather harsh to those who didn't have the opportunity at the time. But guys like the post creator are the ones I'm most referring to, who have wealths of opportunity and cling to ignorance.
Ken didn’t want to do this because it took so long for him to build up trust with the boys, he wasn’t going to risk throwing that all away by hurting one of them in a real fight where he had an obvious unfair advantage. Plus the money wasn’t right.
Unfair advantage? Hell no, Ken was not a boxer... he would have held no advantage, nor would Severn.
@@jimmirogers3485 ummmmm… you know they both fought for real, right? That IS an advantage. And Brawl For All wasn’t boxing. It had takedowns allowed. And Ken wasn’t a boxer, that’s true, but he still had better REAL striking than anyone else in Brawl for All except for maybe Steve Blackman.
Much as he blamed Russo for all this, Vince is the one that gave it the final approval and kept it going. So Vince is just as much, if not more, to blame.
harveyknox Vinces...
I do blame both Vinces, but only one of them was good at his job
Vince squared
I like Dr. Death. I appreciate his work. JR and Corny are out of their minds still thinking Dr. Death would have caught on during this era against Stone Cold after all these years. Let it go already.
Matt Abrams seriously
Finally someone talking sense ! 1998 Austin was on fire so let's put him with a guy that's clearly past it ammm no it would have been the drizzling shits ! On what planet would dr death been In a main event feud with stone cold at this time when you had taker,kane, shamrock, mankind , rock etc
Dr. Death was FAR past his prime by the time he got there. A lot of the WWF crowd who only knew WWF T.V. didn't know or care who Doc was. I agree 100% with everything you said. Doc was not over with that crowd and in that style of Wrestling.
Yeah they would've TRIED Doc and it would've fallen flat. Honestly if they had brought him in as a wrestler and built him up the normal way, they would've seen that and backed off. MAYBE given him like a B ppv shot. But that's it.
That's nonsense this is a very different time compared to the attitude era . The WWF fans at that point wouldn't of bought it no way in hell , are you forgetting that wcw was still beating raw in the ratings every week do you really think Dr death was in any way shape or form going to contribute to the WWF coming back on top !? No it was interesting characters that the fans bought into to along with some risks . plus in what world was Dr death ever a star the magnitude of a bill Goldberg or undertaker !!? 😑🙄🤐
I tried to watch this episode of Dark Side as impartially as possible, so I reserved my judgements about Russo and looked at the story from a neutral point of view.
After about 20 mins, I could see why Jim wants to murder this guy.
Why?
@@heel420 Because he came off as a twat that didn't care how many careers he ruined as long as he got his petty revenge on JBL.
@@KindaShort he didn't ruin any careers. These are grown man that made their own decisions. How did Droz get paralyzed? That's right a good old-fashioned wrestling match. People get hurt in wrestling more today
@@heel420 Savio Vega & Mark Canterbury had to retire, Hawk's drug problem got worse, The Godfather and Dr Death got legit hurt and were out for months. Not to mention Bart got punished for winning and was barely mentioned again.
Lol were you even alive in 98?
@@ReflectionOfPerfection that had nothing to do with the Brawl for all you fucking idiot
I've heard Steve Blackman talk about this. He asked if kicking was legal, and was told it was. And he was like 'whelp I've won then', and started training fight style for it, and then they changed their minds much to his annoyance.
If I had a time machine, I'd tell Steve Blackman to not mention kicks for the brawl for all. If it's gonna be the shit show that it was, let's at least see Blackman throwing kicks. Entertainment value goes up instantly. He'd win if he doesn't get hurt
Bart Gunn will always be one of the most underrated wrestlers ever. Guy legitimately knocked out some of the toughest men from the 90s including Doctor Death. He should’ve been treated better.
I think they (the wwf) put the blame on bart's left hand for "costing them 5 million dollars".
@@donkiddick966 No. That's just Jim saying. Problem with Bart is he had been booked as a midcard guy you that you couldn't push. He was too damaged to push into the main-event.
Fuck em
Which cost wwe millions. Don't get between Vince and his potential earnings. You a re right it was shltty
Doesn't make him a good wrestler.
Bart won not only because of his power, but because he threw straight 1,2s right down the middle which he'd get off faster than the slower looping hooks and overhands that everyone else was throwing. NOBODY in it had any defense or head movement whatsoever, so the faster offense wins.
“What about a fight in a bakery?!” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 TEARS lmfaoooo
seeing jbl get knocked out was the best thing
Dude's a punk ass
When JBL got KO he had a mini seizure. Then gets KO out cold.
Tie, Yes that was the highlight of my night, never used the rewind on my dvr so much it was Awesome! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I guess Russo did do something good after all lol
If there is anything good about brawl for all then it is that
I would pay modern ppv prices to see Cornette and Russo throw hands for real.
Brian Last and Ed Ferrera have to commentate.
No no no!!… With our luck he would be playing that god-awful Oklahoma gimmick
Thats the problem. Jim (rightfully) doesn't believe that Russo should be able to continue to leech off of the "its just wrestling bro" business.
My favourite part of the DSoftR BFA episode was when he called Butterbean "a baked potato with arms and legs". Laughed my arse off.
Imagine saying that to Butterbeans face 😂
They screwed Bart Gunn BAD! The man knocked out their tough guys, including their prized horse, and then he’s fed to the lions (BB) because they didn’t know what to do with him. Bullshit.
And me in my amateur mind watching Dark Side Of The Ring and the Brawl 4 All, I came up with something literally on the spot! You take Bart and you take Steve Williams and you build a feud from there (Dr. Death is pissed that this nobody knocked him out) they go into a program which leads to a PPV match
Then from there you continue to build Bart Gunn (I can see a heel) as this tough that says nobody can touch him, he's destroying people right and left and even calls out Butterbean (Which leads to the Wrestlemania match up) and maybe he becomes Intercontinental Champion along the way and ultimately gets that program with Austin after a run in the mid-card
They tried to do it with Danial Bryan Viscera when he did is own sexual chocolate gimmick and it was getting to big. Damian Sandow. Anytime some one who catches fire and can be a big star if that’s not what they envisioned they squash. Then they wonder why they don’t have guys that draw. Cause the push people nobody cares about.
That why I roll my eyes when they say wrestlers won't get punished if they speak their or getting over by themselves Bart Gunn got himself over but enough for them to put him aside and punished for it if unexpected player make a Impact on the team the coach is going to going to push or use that player no matter what WWE seems to Reverse that
@@siontimmy1 he wasn't punished. They just didn't know what to do with him once he won, in their minds Dr. Death had the Brawl 4 All won and when Bart shocked everyone they didn't know what to do
@@LawrenceW78 they should've have him feud with IC champion weather it been The Rock or HHH or who ever and build him from there
Cornettes emotion saying wrestling is his life brought a tear to my eye, I cant lie.
What do you expect he's King of the marks the guy has no clue about life outside of wrestling
It is his life. He's loved the business since being a kid and got involved as soon as he could and made a nice living doing his passion.
i was close, it was very intense. i had to pause and let it sink in. cause then my memories of cornette took over. first time i saw him was at wm10, then some in your house ppvs. managing yoko, bulldog and owen, later vader too. man i hated him. such a prick. then i got older and started to understand things, researched stuff on the net, read about his start in the biz, about his manager career, smw, writing, booking, and yeah, there is a man, who dedicated all his life to his greatest passion. i like corny, he is entertaining and knowledgeable as fuck, i dont always agree with him and think he should relax more. but sometimes i get it, when people ridicule the one thing you love, and have made the main content of your life, it is easy to get angry.
That's when I understood his hatred for Russo.
HEEL420 whatever dork
I'm one of those who was like "why is Russo so bad?" but after watching Dark Side Of The Ring, I get it (Brawl For Was a year or so before I watched wrestling, only saw the final at Wrestlemania 15) what a dick
Stood out to me as a youngster. I liked it, but dislike the fake acrobatic dive and catches of today
Watch the Nitro shit he & Ed Ferraria did where they made fun of JR after his Bells Palsy. I didn't know how bad this living Piece of Shit was/is, then but after I saw what they were doing I thought "I hope to God both of them die badly." I still do, and if Corny cant get his wife to help get to Russo's grave I'll take him there at the time to piss on Russo's grave.
Cavillier1970 what a fucking horrible thing to say about anybody shame on you ,
your life must be terrible and for that I feel sorry for you, JR and Russo are cool all has been forgiven, Russo has admitted it was his biggest regret, its wrestling that’s all it is it means nothing the man is a father and a grandfather and you represent everything that’s wrong with social media.
@Cavillier
Ed & Russo first made fun of JR with the Oklahoma character in the WWF. McMahon approved it.
One thing is for sure Russo is annoying bro bbro bbbbbbbrobrobro!
" with that voice, and that face " moments like this get me through my day. 😊❤️
They wanted a specific person to win and they didn't bother to fix the match. Then they punished the legitimate winner.
Pure idiocy.
You can tell when Russo says something and then remembers hes 'found God' and backtracks 😅
Illmatic
I actually think Russo is sicker than that...editing was his friend there. If he was watching the matches in order then he would have said the stuff about CTE earlier on since that quote came while he was watching an earlier match in the tournament. Bradshaw got knocked out in the final round so he said all that and then was forgot what he said celebrating Bradshaw getting knocked out
Also, Steve Blackman and Dan Severn would have defeated Dr Death. Athleticism-wise DR Death had a ton of wear and tear, the guy barely scraped past one-eyed PCO
Besides he was big in Japan but the casual fans didn't know or care about that. Fans never saw his work in Japan unless they tape traded or read about it in the mags. No TH-cam in 1998. Still the casual fans wouldn't care about something they never saw since it happened in another country.
Though 10 year old me did read any wrestling mag I saw in the newsstands and would get glimpses of who's who in Japan like Leatherface. I remember seeing a picture of Giant Baba's widow standing in the ring next to a pair of his big boots during a tribute segment.
@@thekidfromiowa and thanks to throwing him into this as a recent acquisition killed any chance at building him up as a main eventer. Besides they could've played vignettes to build him up using his work in Japan.
Dr. Death was well past his prime by then too.
Dr death wasn't that far out of his prime don't use hindsight to cloud your judgement. Check his work mid 90s in Japan good lawd was so good.
I usually agree with Jim, but Dr. Death was not going to be anything in the WWE. He was too injured already before even getting there, older, and had no personality. In Japan he was over because they like that "tough guy" image, but in WCW he was just a guy part of a tag team. Plus, Dr. Death wasn't going to win 'Brawl for All' anyway. He had trouble with a one eyed guy (PCO) in the first round...
Dr.Death punched like little girl.
This.
Dr Death is a big girls blouse. He’s lucky Earlsworth wasn’t around in that time
Dr. Death has a well deserved reputation as a top tier talent in his own right, but as I said in another comment, I just can't picture him on top in the Attitude Era. He was just too old school for the direction they were going at the time. It would have been "one of these things is not like the others" comparing him to the top of the card in that period.
I could see Dr. Death working a program against Austin. But it would have to be handled very carefully. Ideally in this hypothetical case, he would be the heavy bruiser brought in by Mr. McMahon to do the damage to Austin in continuing that rivalry. In much the same way they utilized the Big Bossman. If they hadn’t botched the whole thing up with the BFA… they could have introduced him quickly (for an impact at a critical moment) probably pairing him up with Bossman to “punish” Austin for “Crossing the Boss” in a series of blatant “screw jobs” then they could have built him up that way, as the big bruiser/heavy hitter for the corporation to one on one with Austin.
But that’s just my opinion on the matter.
I know it gets brought up a hundred times in every post---but Travis's artwork is just gold.
Ideally, these should include video of Jim Cornette, as his facial expressions are so entertaining. But yea, the thumbnails are great otherwise.
Bart Gunn not getting his push after is the biggest fuck up. You guys could've done something with him other than feeding him to Butter.
Bart Gunn is the man. Love that he blasted big bully Bradshaw
I know that Dr. Death has a (well deserved) reputation in the business, but I honestly have a hard time picturing him as a top guy during the Attitude Era. He was just too old school to fit in with what was going on at that time.
Yeah he definitely didn't fit in his style was just to 80's but he's a legend and a great wrestler for the era he was in
Absolutely he had no fucking business being in a feud with austin in 1998 ! Those days were long gone it was a different time that would of drew horribly
The only older guy that I think would have drawn money against Austin was Terry Funk...mostly because Funk wasn't afraid to adapt to the times.
I think during that time it was part of his gimmick. He probably could have been used as inforcer for Cornettes New NWA Stable.
@@Baastilein31 that would have been a perfect spot for him as the main event guy's bodyguard
I could listen to Corny talk wrestling all day. You can hear the respect and love he has for it. He's great on 'Dark Side of the Ring'.
Thats why I will always side with Corny, because when he talks classic wrestling he's a brilliant story teller. These stories would be lost forever without people like Cornette
“What about a match in a bakery?!” 😂😂😂
Although Butterbean was a so called "Gimmick" i just dont understand knowing he was still a professional boxer for x number of years thinking somehow someway that Bart was going to beat him in an actual boxing match.. Idk Corny.. They may have been punishment if you really peel back the layers.. Especially if they were pushing for Dr Death to win
Vince and co. have no clue about boxing. Think about how many fake tough guy morons legitimately believed McGregor had a chance against Mayweather. Those are the exact same kind of people as Vince and co. Boxing is a science and a lot of people think it’s just punching power and footwork.
Well, Butterbean (possibly just being humble) did say Bart would've had a 50/50 chance of beating him if he'd have just brawled with him (like Bart did with the others), as opposed to trying to be a "technical" boxer. 3 round fights aren't made for boxers who really know how to box; 3 round fights are made for brawlers. I'll still always say McMahon is an unethical piece of trash, and how he "rewarded" Bart Gunn stands as proof. Corny has a weird obsession with Russo, so of course, he lays all the blame on Russo for everything that went wrong, letting McMahon off the hook. Russo actually wanted to make Bart Gunn a big star after he won the Brawl for All, but Corny thought that idea was absurd.
Fav part was seeing how Russo called wrestling just wrestling and see jim go it isn't just wrestling , wrestling is my life and the look in his eyes showed me that he's like me ,when someone says same stuff about wrestling and how mad I get about it , no matter how many years go by we are wrestling fans that love wrestling... something Russo will never understand
He's a fucking Mark just like you
When it comes to Brawl.For All I couldn't help thinking all those guys better just be glad Ming was in WCW at the time
You mean king haku?
@@ethanmacey9305
Meng can't do shit without his fingers
Nathan Russo say it to him, I dare you!!!
He would have got knocked out like all the others
I thought all wrestling was real at the time. So the Brawl for All just made me wonder why dont all the matches looks like these.
4:06 it was around this time that Bradshaw came up and harassed Edge while Edge was trying to shower
"And if I need to make it to 93 so I can stand there and take a wiz on you F'N Headstone Pal. FU" - Jim Cornette
The crazy thing is that Butterbean had just had a fight the month before the bout with Bart and would have another the month after, so he was fighting at a whirlwind pace when he pulverized Bart.
Without suffering any injuries fighting or wrestling once every 1-2 month is not very often to be fair.
77 wins 10 losses, I don't know much about the guy but anyone with a brain can see that putting that up against an untrained in boxing pro wrestler is a horrendously bad idea
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 To be fair, a lot of those fights were fairly low-level, but yeah.
I love Jim Cornette, but he is so set in his ways even in the face of objective reality.
Dr Death (both Jim and JR are huge marks for Steve Williams) gets knocked out. JC response : "Well, it was because of this, that and the other thing, so he was knocked out but not really"
Arn Anderson (JC is a huge AA mark) starts a fight with Sid, while intoxicated and looses the fight and ends up with the scissors he was trying to stab Sid with, lodged in his stomach. JC response : "Well, Arn didn't really start the fight and didn't really loose it ... and .. yeah, f*#k Sid !!!
I love it when Jim calls out others on their bullshit and yet there is no one to call him out on his own
Based on the quote and Bradshaw's position as a mid carder, I can very easily imagine him saying "If this was real I could kick the ass of everyone in the locker room!" It sounds like something a POTENTIAL locker room bully would say!
Nah I can literally hear that statement in his voice
Why would a midcarder say that and get loads of heat? Like Jim said, it doesn't make sense.
@@AJ-xv7oh especially with taker being full time in the locker room
I don't think he'd be pulling that crap with who was in the locker room back then
@@SamsarasArtWhy do I feel he his humor and personality just didn’t jive well with others and that made people think he was a bully, treat him like a bully, turning him into a fucking bully? JBL, from the sounds of it, just sounds like a southern man doing banter.
I believe Jim is right, as there is a story of how Bradshaw got battered by Steve Blackman and the only way he got let off the hook was Blackman made him apologise to him in front of the entire locker room. It’s funny how Bart Gunn basically got punished for winning.
The most shocking revelation?
Didn’t even come in the episode, but from the Dark Side of the Podcast, where the producers talk about someone that was with the company mentioned that Vince wanted to bring Brawl for All back as that was what the original plan for NXT was back when it was the game show type deal that replaced WWECW & he had to be talked out of doing it
The only real fighter that WWE has on their roster is Brock Lesnar. It'll be one hell of a long night for him.
Not current NXT, this was back when they first launched it in 2010 so it would've been with Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett, Justin Gabriel, Heath Slater, Skip Sheffield (Ryback), Michael Tarver, Darren Young & David Otunga but luckily people talked Vince out of doing it
@@flame9118 Barrett would've wiped the floor with all of them lol
@@flame9118 Barrett would’ve probably beat everybody not counting “maybe” Daniel Bryan as Barrett was a former bareknuckle boxer but once again had they done it like this all bets would’ve been off
I miss Dan Severn. He was Ron Swanson as a AAA UFC WWF wrestler. 💘
Damn. The resemblance is very real.
Dan, Dan, He's our beast. If he can't make it no one... will.
Bart Gunn should’ve been fighting Road Dogg for the IC title and ascend his way into the main event scene instead of fighting butterbean.
That's if anyone in the WWF had an interest of pushing him which they didn't
To me even if he ddnt get hurt ,dr death was never gonna get over with the fans because he didn't have the swag ,charisma or the promos like Austin and rock or Mick Foley
Goddamn I'm proud of you Jim. I wish more people respected the business like you.
I'm not going to lie, when I was 14 and watching this live I was entertained. Makes me realize that I was a dumbass 14 year old!
i agree with everything jim said except pat patterson being normal
It's astounding that people say Russo isn't crazy when instead of having an angle(? Idk what to call the bfa) to get one person over, he (at least according to the man himself) had one with the goal of doing the exact opposite and involved a bunch more guys in it as well as Bradshaw.
I think Jim overestimates the drawing power of a Dr. Death versus Stone Cold program.
@brianhopson2072 Wrong. Jim is completely spot on. Dr Death vs Stone Cold would have set a new record for a pay per view buyrate.
Should’ve made Bart Gunn an enforcer for Shane McMahon or something like that. Not a top of the card push but it’s better than feeding him to Butterbean
Yeah he could have had big bossmans role
That would have worked VERY well
And if he had top tier potential turn him face against Shane
@@winstoncannady4224 Better yet, have him work with Big Bossman as a tag team...
For godsake would you people stop deluding yourself on Bart Gunn. He was a mid card/lower card tag team guy, that's it. He had virtually no charisma to speak of, he wasn't particularly good on the mic, and he was only average in the ring. The fact he knocked out a load of guys on his level in a tournament that nobody gave two hits about did NOTHING for him because NOBODY CARED. Cornette said this in the pod cast if you muppets actually listened to it.
Bart Gunn was NEVER going to become a star in the WWF no matter what you did because he wasn't that damn good.
“Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.” - Napoleon
Sometimes you have people who are both malicious and incompetent. And I think Russo often fit that description, lol.
I think Vinny Mac not being blamed equally for the abomination of the Brawl For All is just criminal.
It makes you question those claims of him being a "genius" (which he's not, just a man with a napoleon complex) if he couldn't come up with any other way of getting a guy over to face Austin.
Vince Russo is the idiot that pitched the idea.
Vince McMahon, the 'higher power' of the WWE that finalizes all decisions that come across him, enabled it.
Vince Russo gets all of the blame, somehow. Russo gets a nice half chunk of the blame and not a thing in Vince McMahon's head ever thought "well, that's a shitty idea pal".
I bet Vince McMahon went "THAT'S GOOD SHIT!".
@@frozyre7854 If Undertaker Were In Charge Undertaker Would've Shot That Shit Down LOL
Vince McMahon is more god complex to me.
Undertaker: Nope This Shit Is Garbage
Hell, I blame Vinnie Mac for Vinnie Russ PERIOD, let alone the Brawl For All..
I literally just learned about this from DSotR. I asked my mom if she ever heard of it (she watched wrestling from the 80's to the 2000's) and at first she said yes, but when I described it she immediately said no. I think she was thinking of a Battle Royale or something and said that if WWE ever did a boxing thing (which they did obviously) it would be stacked against the wrestlers and not work.
Imagine an event so poorly managed that even people who actually watched wrestling at the time didn't know about it or just straight up forgot it...
Was the brawl for all even technically legally I swear I have to be licensed to hold fights like that
This is the exact reason Vince McMahon calls his product “sports entertainment” to avoid athletic commissions and their licensing. So absolutely it was in a legal gray area at the very least.
What I still don’t understand is why they decided to put Dr. Death in the brawl for all when upper management considered him a top prospect and had the intentions of giving him a massive push. I thought the whole point of the brawl for all was to take guys who had “nothing to lose” because they didn’t wanna risk the reputations of their top stars?
It was probably some McMahon logic that the WWF audience wouldn't know who Dr. Death was. So this was a different way to "introduce" him. He kills some guys in "real" fights then jumps in front if the line to face Austin.
Bart Gunn absolutely was punished. Corny is trying to justify it by rightfully pointing out Bart wasn't ready for that push. However, they could have given him a smaller mid-card push. Instead they let him twist in the wind for months and then fed him to Butterbean effectively killing his career in the WWF.
My favorite part of the thing was when a promotion tried to book a rematch with Gunn and Esch, and Gunn wouldn't do it unless he had six months to train for the fight. Gunn is smart. I hope he's doing well, now.
William Sullivan He is an electrician
If Bart Gunn Had Those Six Months And Trained He'd Knock That Fool Out
If all he wanted was to see JBL get ktfo all he had to do was call Joey Styles or hire New Jack.
Brett Perry WWE would’ve had lawsuits for years if they had hire New Jack. Lol
If they hired Abdullah, he would have given JBL HEP C. LOL
WHAT ABOUT A FIGHT IN A BAKERY?!
Cornette has been awesome on Darkside of the ring. Remember watching Brawl for All and thinking it was a work to put Dr Death over. Was shocked when he got knocked out
I have to say , Cornette and the rest of the office fumbled a golden nugget that came from the nightmare that was brawl for all. I was in middle school when that happened , and Bart was OVER. Nobody cared who doctor death was . Most people thought it was a joke that Dr death was there anyway , because he looked out of shape and got destroyed , and JR had put him over so hard.
Bart was still young enough to appeal to kids...believe me , I know because I listened to the talk. Bart was the most legit badass on the roster as far as many people were concerned. He was primed for a heel run until the Butterbean knockout , and possibly even after , because most people I know don't remember what happened to Bart Gunn. What a shame.
Bart was in no way whatsoever "over". 😂😂😂
@@Rjensen2 Shenanigans.
Jim saying 'Bart didn't get punished" is absolutely stupid because after Bart Gunn won, they went up to him saying 'you weren't supposed to win this, so at Wrestlemania, you're gonna face Butterbean in a boxing match'. THAT'S a form of punishment because they were setting Dr Death Steve Williams up to win it.
Insightful as always Jim! Great stuff!
This whole Doc is a superman is still going on today, gets me angry. He's not Superman. A pro fighter like Tyson, Holyfield, Lesnar would destroy him.
That's true. But they are talking about amongst the boys. A prime Dr. Death most likely would win.
Doc was a pussy. He was not a badass, they made him a badass. It was his role, he fought like a little girl.
OK keyboard warrior
Oh come on... how would Doctor Death get passed Dan Severn of he didn't back out? Not to mention, one would never know who would win in a tough man competition. To think that Steve Williams would win automatically, then already fantasize about him doing a program with Austin is absurd. It would be safe to say that absolutely no around at that time in the WWF understood the concept of real fighting. They were all acting like marks. Just saying that: 'Doctor Death would have won if he didn't tear his hamstring while falling awkwardly' is laughable. Those are the kind of excuses MMA guys laugh at. And those are the kind of scenarios come with the territory of actual fighting. That just proves that Steve was not athletic by MMA standards (at least not at that time of his life).Trust me, it's quite obvious that Bart was buried after that and shame on those who did it. Bart did nothing wrong. The WWF turned a real life situation, that they could not control, and was not favorable for them and they turned it into a work. They punished Bart by feeding him to Butterbean. Talk about immature. Trust me, most fans who watched this documentary will be on Bart's side and now we all know how the WWF screwed him over.
This ☝️
I can imagine vince mcmahon saying we didn’t screw Bart, Bart screwed Bart.
I sure hope Jim is wrong about Pat Patterson being a fitting example of what a “normal person” is in this world.
He's a gaywod
Chris_Gullett well you can say all of that but at the end of the day your party is run by people who deny climate change. So you can only go so far on that horse hahah
@@Antlover420 Global warming is faker than fake news! You loser!
Chris_Gullett ok sorry sir I didn’t know I was talking to a scientist and political guru.
You are right we don’t have to worry about any impact we do to the planet we can do whatever we want and not have to worry about what it might do to generations after us. I’m so so sorry sir
Chris_Gullett - you’re not even smart enough to realise how dumb you are so pipe the fuck down
Is Jim suggesting that Dr. Death could’ve beat Dan Severn and/or Steve Blackman in a shoot? I doubt it.
I love when these old southern wrestling guys try and excuse Steve Williams getting destroyed in the Brawl for All.
John Boylan he got exposed for being a fraud and that’s why they hate the brawl for all
@@goldenserenity2385 yup a college all American wrestler is a fraud
@@markramos7209 college all american in 1981. Brawl for all was 1998. Father time remains undefeated.
Neither Bart or Williams could box worth a damn and both guys in the end got buried as a result. It was a cluster fuck and nothing good came from it.
@@orangeandblackps father time does remain undefeated but when people say dr death was "exposed " or not a real bad ass that is ridiculous
You did a good job in this episode of this series Jim. Credit where credit is due.
Raw ran by Russo, and Smackdown ran by Cornette. That would be a great competitive drive, if they build the internet heat 😄
Golden Serenity I like the idea of Cornette running Smackdown.
Russo shouldn’t be anywhere near planet earth, never mind being anywhere near a wresting promotion
"Time for another hot lead enema Mr. Russo."
Not punishment? Butterbean even knew it was punishment. He knew he was there to do Vince's bidding, knock him out.
This is one of those ideas where there is no possible way to understand the logic of this idea.
The brawl in the bakery would have been better.
I just watched it last night, it was incredible and amazingly made me hate R*sso even more
I remember the Brawl for All vividly. I remember when it came on the telly thinking "this isn't wrestling, someone is gonna get hurt" and I wasn't wrong. It was a really bad idea from the very beginning!
They may not have had any plans for any other winner, but Bart was clearly punished for winning.
This was uploaded on my 20th birthday. Thanks 3 years ago
Jim, there's one thing that should be said about Butterbean's role in all of this. He was an immensely popular pop culture figure (especially in the midwest) during the time of the Brawl For All, due to tough man competitions enjoying a large spike in popularity during the mid 1990s. My belief had always been that WWF used Butterbean because of the notoriety he had been receiving in the mainstream media at that time, and simply wanted to cash in on his popularity as well. Great video!
Fantastic episode. All the feels for Bart Gunn.
Was watching one of the Brawl for All matches and the crowd was chanting “we want wrestling” 😂
Yeah it was a bad idea,one of the worst Russo ever thought up. But let's not forget who approved it, Vince McMahon.
So this is just more excuses for Dr.Death and misusing Bart Gunn, the visual of Bart knocking out people left and right is enough for some kind of push, JR was part to blame too imo.
If the fights had no gloves and anything goes, Dr Death would have been butchered by Steve Blackman or Dan Severn with ease.
So stoked to see you in the vice series!
Preserving Walt Disney's head we need to preserve Jim cornette's head for all his wrestling knowledge
9:50 "...well anyways" LOL just completely ignores the guys story hilarious.
"Nobody got over from this"
Jim Ross
He s wrong JBL did get over majorly he's former WWE CHAMPION
Reading comprehension fail.
Nobody got over "from this"
@@jasongodfrey823 He didn't get over from the BRAWL FOR ALL, YOU BLITHERING MORON
Well he wasn't wrong