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French secularism: Anti-religious or safeguarding freedoms?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2016
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This week we take a closer look at France's cherished state secularism. Laïcité [secularism], a product of French history and philosophy, is central to how France defines itself. But critics say it is anti-religious and increasingly used to stigmatise Muslims. Is laïcité compatible with a multicultural society? We spoke to Jean-Louis Bianco, the President of the National Observatory on Secularism, to find out more.
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The French version and American version of “Freedom of Religion” are different.
We had already got religions War in Europe and also in France ( catholics against protestants) .
If some péople would criticise m'y country .No problèm.
When you will have a religion War in 2023 .
Don't bé surprise if violence could Come .
So when You go to m'y country ,You respect m'y laws .
Nowadays some New citizens believe that they could do everything because of politicians lies .
You see what IS happening in France : violence in thé suburb ,protest in thé streets ,thé French président doesn't do anything just communication .....
So ...
Yea one doesn’t have it and the other does
USA ...... = Freedom OF Religion (if your "religion" is "no religion" ; that is a religious choice)
FRANCE = Freedom FROM Religion
I am from Turkey(for real I am not a bot) dont let them take your secularism defend it religious try to destroy it and take control of government
so proud of you
@@indrajit57 Secularism sucks! Go back to Catholicism! We will take back Europe!
@@thegreatrestoration6784 .
@@XDKnoori you disagree?
@@thegreatrestoration6784 no I just saved your comment lol
If humans have to live in peace on this planet a complete 'separation of religion and state' has to be accepted and strictly implemented.
I'm a Muslim but Secular and Non Religious,I believe in God but I also believe in evolution, I grew up in a Secular school that taught both the Bible and Quran so I celebrated Christian and Muslim holidays,I don't pray,I sometimes fast during Ramadan although sometimes I choose not to fast it usually comes down to preference,I rarely read the Quran in fact I've read only one page of it in my whole life,I support LGBTQ and Women's rights,I respect all religions and I see all of them as perfectly equal to one another,And I would date a Non Muslim (Yes even the people who are not from the Abrahmic Religions),I would also marry a Non Muslim and I would not convert him/her because I'm Secular and I despise forced conversions,I would allow a normal pet inside my home but no snakes,crocodiles or anything strange like that,I think women should choose whether to be modest or not, I'm very Liberal,I would not go to a mosque for Religious reasons, if I had a daughter I would allow her to marry a Non Muslim as long as she does not convert him/her,And I dislike it when Religion is involved in politics etc.
Actually banning religious symbols, creates more divide and oppression instead of neutrality because religious people have a disadvantage, while atheists and non relgious people have the higher ground in terms of freedom because they do not subject themselves to religious rulings, but if france allowed religious symbols, nonreligious people would be still happy because they can wear their non religious attire which makes them comfortable and religious people can wear their religious attire which makes them comfortable. If public display of religion is banned, what makes a public display of secular atheism somehow more morally acceptable.
@@arandomperson1042 Yeah its the same as relegious dominated countries, theres only of shift of authority to atheist, no freedom
@@nouhn1878 you are no longer a Muslim
I don't agree.
Don't ever lose your secularism, France.
That secular crap only works when Christians are majority.
@@elizabethathisayamany7674 Most people are atheist in France actually.
@LeviosaDream No, Catholic.
@@guyp9596 Literally 63% of French are non-religious
@@lordliberty8885 I thought i was 40%
1. Religion is private matter!
2. Religion is private matter!
3. Religion is private matter!
If religion should be a private matter, then so should atheism, i mean thats the only secular neutral approach.
Repeating the lie doesn’t make it true.
@@arandomperson1042
atheism is not an ideology nor a belief system with a holy book a set of rules and fairytales, so not quite the same thing
@@lui8806 what harm does it cause to allow religious clothing in public.
@arandomperson1042
This might seem like an extremist move from the French government to some. But these are the actions that need to be made to counter crazy cultists that try to sell a religion and push it (aka pushing a harmful scam full of harmful ideologies), plus the people that use their cult as a justification for discrimination and going against science and logic. At the end, a religion is no more different or dangerous than a cult, it's only difference is the number of followers.
This is just a perfect example of secularism turning into it’s own form of religion
it's an ideology not a religion. it's like saying being anti terrorist is a form of terrorism
I don’t get why muslims think this is a dig at their religion when secularism targets others religion too. We need to get over ourselves.
@@viridia1526 Well I’m not a Muslim, I just believe in a religious person’s right to practice their religion how they want to as long as it isn’t harming anyone
@@lorenzomizushal3980 I mean religion is a form of ideology, but I see your point regardless wearing a hijab,kippah,yamaka,kufi,taqiyah,cross, or any other form of clothing is in no way harming anyone and is not a form of forcing your religion on to others so why does it matter
@@Lucas_Ordonez It's the ideology of French Secularism. It's not freedom of religion, but freedom from religion. From there stems all these laws.
You could say it's a type of religion, perhaps a secular religion. It's probably the same as how certain Islamic countries ban pornography. You could ask the same question, how is my watching pornography harm anyone, why does it matter? Yet they make the ban. I'm not saying a hijab is the same as porn, but the point is neither wearing the hijab nor watching pornography harms anyone but such laws are made, and sovereign nations are free to make the laws of their countries. And each countries appeal to certain ideals, beliefs, or ideologies, or even religions, to guide their laws. Such is the case with France.
I agree the hijab doesn't harm anyone, but I agree with its ban in government domains based on the ideology of French Secularism. Just as I'm sure certain Muslims agree with the ban on pornography in Islamic countries.
I like this type of secularism...
India needs this
@@leanderbarreto6523 I second that
@@leanderbarreto6523 until they make it so no one can have religion right? What an idiot
@@hassanu.7799
Islam is a negative memeplex.
@@leanderbarreto6523 Then cows would go to the slaughter. Not that I would care since I love beef.
I love French secularism
I hate it!
We need to go back to the Union of Church and state where Catholicism is the only religion allowed.
@@thegreatrestoration6784 the fact is majority of french and even europe isn't religious at all lol, And who identified themself at Christian is just for formality lol
It's dictatorship!
@@thegreatrestoration6784 I assume this is a joke. But I can’t be too sure...
@@allergy5634 I was serious. Read Catholic Prophesy.
And what about the separation of state and freemasonry?
freemasonry died into a small private club for secular atheist/agnotics .
all they do now is having fun waching you still beeing christian.
thanks, u made my day
Freemasonry is not
an apparatus of the
state. Freemasonry
is a club of like-minded
individuals. It has
nothing to do with
the state or country
of France.
Laicite is the best gift Slovenia inherited from the French.
yes indeed
You mean the most stupid thing ever
Rubbish! Laicite is the reason why the World is corrupt!
@@thegreatrestoration6784 sure thing the middle East isn't corrupt at all
@@rhinoareaction7587 The Middle East is corrupt because of their Religion
France once again leading ideas, leading fairness, leading progress.
Nah France is becoming woke
@@jonjonboi3701 always has been. Ever since the 1789
@@linhhoang1725 Wokeness is something new and it's leading France astray.
@@CelticVictory nope, France has always been progressive in ideals since 1789
@@leohe2594 Wokeness hasn't even been around since 1789. And I guess that makes the Reign of Terror progressive.
In my British eyes this seems more like silly, wokish big government from France. Separate church from state, yes is a good idea. However you now have these wokish secular obsessives banning hijabs in schools (if I want to wear a hijab in a school what has that got to do with the government as it is my personal choice and I am not upsetting anyone) . Keep church and state separate but leave people to have personal choice in day to day life. This big govt approach of ramming secularism down people's throats has got France in a real mess and more people will die because of it.
veils are already banned in high school in France. you get expelled if u wear one
agree, it seems they are forcing people with their secularism. No way you can call this neutrality. While the rights of the minority are being taken away
Matt I agree. Like yes separation of Church and State but why ban Crucifixes and Hijabs? Gosh.
I'm a swiss person and I live in the UK....and in Switzerland ( Geneva ) and we do not let anyone bring religious STUFFS to school and I do totally agree is a private matter ...should be at your own home.. in public sphere should not have space . And we have proud on that ...you can do anything in your house on public places no...your you respect our society or no space for you in it... And there no discussion in Switzerland about that because is voted by the people in referendum so if the people say so you just have to obey or leave . When i came to the UK I had conscious that you have religion in school here, even if I don't agree I've to accept and respect since is your tradition.
@@kaylenjohnson1351 because hijab do not respect the society . Is against the law gave your face cover in Switzerland and in France...and that's is for everyone .religion has no space in public space , people have to accept having the face cover is not a rigth since is ilegal to have the face cover in any situation if not medical...
Protect secularism. Never let religion decide country future nor how it shall it be governed.
Are the French really that proud of their disdain towards religion.
The wall of separation alluded to by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptist was a direct reference to the first amendment This is what Jefferson said:
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”
The wall of separation was simply a prohibition on government. It protects citizens from a state imposed religion, and restricts the state from prohibiting religious expression. The covid lockdowns was a clear violation of separation of church and state as the government clearly interfered the natural rights of the individual, imposing rules from the state on how and when to worship!
Thomas Jefferson made a mistake by not also limiting the church
Separation of church and state can't exist as long as the church can interfere with the state the US is a good example of this
The French are right the church has no place in state funded schools or government keep it in your churches and homes
Not only is it safeguarding freedoms it is safeguarding people who choose not to follow religion And the maniacal, violent extremism that often accompanies it.
Quite ignorant of you to believe that only religious people can become extremists. Early to mid 20th century and socialism anyone?
That's doubtful.
It's a bit targeted, no?
No, christians or jewish people can't wear cross or kippa.
The religion is something private in france, and is separated from state building. It's something that protect us all
(From unending conflicts mostly)@@parthibhayat
Needs to happen in the US
Hell no
@@folofus4815 order before freedom
Secularism literally exists in the most country's in the world.
That would be a terrible idea.
@@littleantukins4415 That's called tyranny.
Religion is private matter 🙂
So why is the government interfering in private matters?
@ttt ttt how? Muslims almost account 10% of france population if we force our religion on every people in this country. France would be burning now
@@aloukan5805 Don't take your private matters to the public place
Actually banning religious symbols, creates more divide and oppression instead of neutrality because religious people have a disadvantage, while atheists and non relgious people have the higher ground in terms of freedom because they do not subject themselves to religious rulings, but if france allowed religious symbols, nonreligious people would be still happy because they can wear their non religious attire which makes them comfortable and religious people can wear their religious attire which makes them comfortable. If public display of religion is banned, then so should public display of atheism, and one more thing,
What is wrong with someone wearing religious symbols outside, they are not obstructing anyones space, they arent causing any inconvenience or hassle, its just a stupid law make because of stupid reasons.
@@khan-cricket Sex is also a private matter! Don't take it to the public place.
It is so funny and ironic
French teach my ancestor about Jesus, but now almost entire french leave Jesus.
Okay, doesn’t matter though. Humans should evolve. The French have evolved in the right way.
@Sanne Strijd and who tell you that they are moving to the better
@@dragonsigma8611
Religion is the opium of the masses.
@@sannestrijd2978 It will go back to the old way, just watch. France will return back to Catholicism.
@@thegreatrestoration6784
Hopefully that is true.
It’s both safeguarding freedoms and anti-religion, because of the nature of religion.
That really doesn't make sense.
france has to control islam state
secularism will save the world!
Secularism will destroy the world!
If the Church ruled everything, we wont have Nuclear bombs!
Are you sure about that, how about the impact of secularism being forced in muslim countries in the middle east.
@@arandomperson1042 actually yes, that's why I'm sure. All the corrupted and worst regimes are held by religious ideas. Religion must be a private issue. It should not be implemented to public sphere.
@@zeynepkucuk243 ok but whats your opinion on religious symbols/clothing pieces being worn in public spaces like parks, on the streets or public transport, if you are against it please explain how a piece of cloth which just happened to look a bit different to symbolize a certain faith interferes with the private life of others.
@@arandomperson1042 Muslim countries were secular lmao,not that secular but they were nonetheless.
Until the arab spring and the radical Islamists.
A great idea that should be adopted by all modern societies or those ready to leave such primitive fears behind.
hope not, people would have less freedom of choice in their personal life, as secularism is forced upon people. Secularists talking about religion being oppressive, and jet they are worse. What happened between the separation of state and religion and neutrality.
@@aloukan5805
You have a misunderstanding of secularism as the deluded, religious dogmatist that you are.
Your "primitive fears" are a part of you.
@@aloukan5805
Laïcité is separation of
religion and state.
One is not allowed to force
one's religion/it's arbitrary
dress codes upon the organs
of the state -- Schools, the
Civil service (while at school
or work)
*One can do what he/she*
*wants on his own time --*
Wear religious clothes, jewelry,
pray, go to a place of worship.
*In other words, religion is a*
*private matter it does not*
*belong in the institutions of*
*the state!*
Also, when one is an Olympic
athlete representing France;
one does not bring one's
religion into the arena!
Does France have cultural platforms for cultural events where Christianity is privileged? So the concept of laicite has Implicit religious biases towards Christianity but antagonist towards Islam.. so how is France so capable of enforcing laicite without too much criticism? Because the French Majority is Christian.. so laicite can effectively separate religion from public life , because public life is actually.... Christian! So the laicite concept asserted Christianity as the invisible cultural norm publicly while being practiced privately. Religious cultures not Christian cannot experience laicite, because they have no public power to experience their culture publicly.. laicite only recognizes Christianity as the invisible norm that is embedded in French institutions likely. So Christianity gets to be practiced invisibly yet publicly while Muslims have to practice visibly yet privately.. so laicite provides secular endorsement to christianity without needing to recognize religion publicly. The public is Christian and secular.. I guess French secularism sounds like it's still getting out of religion and religious biases.
Safeguarding freedoms!
safeguard freedoms, by taking other freedoms away
Not so much.
Love you France, Laïcité makes so much sense
. like usual, the French are ahead of the game.
if taking freedoms of choice away from minorities, and forces an ideology on people.
@@aloukan5805
No, it does not, you religious dogmatist.
Makes no Sense at all.
@@sufficientmagister9061 please explain, how is public display of religious wrong, how does a muslim woman wearing a headscarf or a sikh wearing a turban, or a Jewish man wearing a Yamukah somehow interfere public life, they are not obstructing anyones space, nor are they preaching and so what if its offensive to atheists isnt secularism about freedom of speech
Sure, but they're ahead in the race to be become a totalitarian state. As usual, the French are backing the wrong play.
Secularism IS their religion .. It's the same principle .. no one should force others to follow a specific "idea" .. whether this idea is religious or secular, doesn't matter It's all the same .. peace doesn't come from forcing others to follow your idea .. peace comes from the acceptance of differences between people, peace comes from freedom, peace comes from harmony and coexistence.
What if you're having a bad hair day?
Go to thé good hairdresser .You Know thé social rule for life .
When You 've got a date You are really elegant ...
You are allowed to wear hats, I don’t get the question..?
Protect secularism France.
They create secularism but
They have law that made human in especially law makers
While they left their book in religious
Human has stupidity
Later on they swear 🤣🤣 religious book
what
If France does it it's secularism, if an Asian country does it then its called by this same news station as antireligion.
French secularism
guarantees the public
freedom from one
group imposing its
religion upon others.
What is freedom to them?
What do you mean? (I'm French)
In the "droits de l'homme et du citoyen", at the very first article, it says any citizen can do whatever he.she.they wants as long as long as he.she.they don't hurt or restrain other's Freedom ^^
@@super_nov2353 ok i have a sincere question, are chains of the moon and sun, and of crosses, banned in public school or areas?
@@jerrymosso3380 all of those are banned, they have been since the bill was first introduced in 1905. The French usually tend to view religion from a negative point of view due to centuries of economic and social stagnation they suffered from while being oppressed by the Catholic Church.
@@super_nov2353 and in the respect of the law, their freedom are not only limited by the respect of others but also by the law so yes they cannot do anything they want but are still free for a lot of things
It's probably not the latter.
⚡️ Secularism/Ignoritism a Religion/Ideology it is.
bro is speaking master yoda
@@EXO_0fficial [Transcription of Rooted and Advanced Contemporary Alkebulan Wâ’lâf Language it is.]
@@ArcFoundationDirector what's that? (please tell me i am curious)
Laicite is so sacret, sounds like a relegion to me. Forcing other people your views of life is not freedom but oppression. Lacitee is not neutral, its a believe.its the right wing ideas that call for hate.
Laicite is a left wing principle.
I think everyone talks about a male relative.
So a young adult who doesn't feel anything is really weird.
Like they're a fat boss with slaves.
Fascist is the most accurate word to describe it
So France is facist since 1789 ? Before facism was even a thing?
I'm always learning more everyday
@anneeq008
you probably don't even know what fascism means
RELIGION SAY WEAR CLOTHES IF UR RELIGIOUG WEAR CLOTHES OTHERWISE NO
France is in northwestern
Europe -- It is not in a warm
climate. EVERYBODY wears
clothes, even in the summer!
Laicité means islamism...demonstrated in Le Republic France
Allan's Snackbar?
in France iu do not change the meaning of the word!!!??? Laicite is a Regime that have the tradition to cut heads to the Catolics and persecuted the Catholic comunities at the same time they are so sweet with the meccas
@@tricPort Islam does not have the same history as the church, unfair to think the same way. Secularism forced upon people is that freedom. there is no neutrality when there is no choice.
@@aloukan5805 .
@@tricPortWTF?????
Laïcité wasn't the reason the french decapitated the king's head 😂😂😂
I love french designer brands but will not be buying anymore££££
I will not go in England again ? Because of what You Say ? Stop to think that péople are thé same liké You everywhere .
Frances secularism is too extreme. Politicians should be allowed to share there faith publicly as should teachers, students,public workers etc. There not forcing it on nobody,people sharing there faith publicly is a bestiful thing.
the majority of French people would not agree with this because it is too inclusive and without critical minds you have no more reflections.
French people would tell you that faith is a privatz matter, and as such, people represenring citizens shouldn't show their faith while in exercise
Your freedom definition is not the french majority definition of freedom but good try.
@@ditne5661 What do you mean by critical minds? Can somebody not be religious and critical(of course this would depend to a certain degree on the religion)? Of course they can. I am Catholic but how would that effect my governance if I was in government?
I do not want to hear about
a politician's or YOUR religious
faith/views -- Religion
is a private matter.
Islam supar