I prefer traditional fixtures that accept standard Edison base bulbs for exactly the reasons you stated. Typically it's not the LEDs that fail first but the drive circuitry, and I have rarely seen them last more than a few years. Failure is accelerated in you are in an area with dirty power (lots of brownouts and surges).
They also fail quicker if they overheat. I've been getting some integrated light fixtures, but I've been making sure that the LEDs are spaced out pretty well across the surface, and if they're dimmable (either through an app or a toggle switch) I get ones that can do more lumens than I need and bump them down 25% to 50% so that they're not running at full power.
Failure also happens if the bulb/fixture doesn't have a flow of air on it. The LED Edison base bulb variety fail due to the heat it can't shed, AND they use 85c to 105c caps in them which is far too low to survive. I kept blowing LED E15 bulbs in my Den until I remove the glass globes that housed each bulb.
i was going to say that as a UK electrician i have installed thousands of LED bulk heads for commercial premises in the city (London ) these work well for the purpose )stair wells plant rooms hall ways _ where the lights are either on all the time or are switched a couple of times a day ro week but in the home do you want to be buying a new fitting after three to five years ? thats IF you don't get the fitting thats going to last five minutes ! being able to remove and replace the lamp relatively cheaply EG an ES or BC cap is better for home owners plus you have a greater array of fittings to chose and you dont have to worry that in five or six years you can get one that matches
@@kyutablet Yep, the led themselves will last past a human's life unless overpowered. The issue is all the Chinese guts of these so I say hell no to purchasing something I know will fail.
I had replaced most of my light fixtures with the integrated lights. At 70, I knew my days of changing light bulbs was limited. Integrated lights we’re supposed to last many years; wrong, I found them to begin failing (strobing) in just a few years. Now I have gone back to bulbs for all but one because the integrated ones died. Good video and recommendations on lighting.
And instead of throwing out just the bulb you have to buy a new fixture but styles change and you may be out of luck buying the same model. Not only that more waste going into landfills.
@@ragheadand420roll right, but most people don’t realize what they’re buying these days or if they do don’t care how long something like this will last
It gets worse! They print it like it's a feature! "No lightbulbs to replace!" It makes me so angry. Don't sell me manure and tell me it's chocolate. I say that as someone who bought 2. (1' x 2' flat panels) I have a low ceiling basement and wanted a 1/2" thick light panel because recessed seemed like too much work (replacing large 4 bulb flourescents). (I bought the fixture before realizing I would need to install junction boxes). And they have a button with 5 colors from soft warm to daylight. But yeah. It's terrible design. I expect to maybe need to wire in new lights every 5-10 years. And led recycling isn't where it needs to be. I would never consider it for new construction or if I have a tall enough ceiling.
I don't believe this garbage they sell. I replaced some florescent lights with LEDs and after 2 years they were duds. They don't last the ten and fifteen years they.claim. home use may get ten years if the light.is.off most of the time. My bathroom light been is still going after the first generation of LED Edison base replacement bulbs. I think you will get more use out of those lights. I don't trust any light unattended so I make sure all lights are off before leaving for work. Also on trips no lights are left on. I think all lights would last longer if we go from 120 or 125 volts to 110 volts. I have a voltage reducer for my Christmas light displays. Before reducing the voltage I would be replacing 7 to 10 LED lights in a short 3 week time. After reducing the voltage I haven't replaced one LED light. If I decide to go off grid for electric I will try to find 110 volt or even 105 volt pure sine wave inverter for my lighting. The rest of the house can have 120 volts for motors and other electric appliances. My lighting is on its own circuit to I can use a sub panel for such circuits and hook it to the 110 inverter. The rest can be 120 volts or actually 240 volts with a 120 volt tap. The well runs on 240 volts. I would use gas to heat my water. 73
Someone that buys my house someday will have you to thank. Every fixture I’ve touched I re-wire with Wago’s and re-wire all my receptacles to the screws from the back stab method.
A little creativity allows different light fixtures and designs intermix beautifully whenever any old light fixture needs replacement. And we always get to enjoy the latest technologies.
Happy homeowner here (not a landlord/rental property owner). I have two integrated LED light fixtures that I am generally satisfied with. They have been running less than 5 years, I believe. Throughout the rest of the house, I have fixtures with a mix of fluorescent and LED light bulbs. The ease of maintenance with bulbs can't be denied. For my situation, the integrated LED light fixtures do a great job (lighting a dark kitchen/dining room) so far. As the fluorescent bulbs fail, I will replace them with LED bulbs.
I agree. I don’t like the integrated LED fixtures. I use the small recessed lights whenever possible. I actually buy an extra recessed light for every 6 I put up as those fixtures also change often. Great tips!
I agree, integrated can work on a table lamp when you can easily replace it but you should not need to change fixtures when a bulb goes down. This is especially important when installing to someone else. Do you even get a fixture you like in 10 years.
I agree that the 3000K color temperature is best for home use - not sickly yellow and not jarring blue. Unfortunately the manufacturers are not consistent with their descriptive labeling. The terms "bright white", "warm white" and "cool white" are meaningless. Pay attention to the actual color temperature (e.g., 3000K). I stay away from so-called 40W or 60W "equivalent" bulbs - they are usually not bright enough for reading. A "100-watt equivalent" (1200 to 1500 lumens) is more suited to larger rooms or for spaces where you want to read. Good video, keep up the good work.
100 watt lumina should be 1620 not 1500 but you know not to get into politics some good for nothing leader thought we should bow down to the EU. Not on your Life. This is America and we are free if we let ourselves be free. Freedom has a cost. 73
Moving and replacing the fixtures I installed when we moved in 26 years ago. These fixtures were gifts from a relative that has since passed and hold a sentimental value not easily matched by anything in this world. Bought 2 of those LED ceiling fixtures and the new home owner will be dealing with them in 10 years.
Bought a house in April. The integrated light in the ceiling fan burned out in September. They don't make a replacement so was going to have to buy entire new fan and light...until I found a replacement led driver on Amazon for $12. It's not sanctioned but, I'm handy and made it work.
We have a 20 year old or more florescent light in our kitchen, very beautiful light with woodgrain around it, and we don't want to replace it so we replaced the wiring and all of that inside it. Works perfectly, so there's no point of replacing it with something else, and it also fits the them of the kitchen
I think you are seeing these kind of lights, which I call throw-a-ways, because you are looking at Lowe's, and Home Depot. I have been shopping on line for lighting, Hayneedle, Wayfair, Lamps Plus etc., and most of the fixtures take standard light bulbs. Some throw-a-ways, but probably less then 10%. Yeah the stuff I'm looking at cost more, but I think the style and quality is worth it.
Completely agree across the board. A 3000 K, 60W LED has been our standard for years. I think the new integrated LEDs work great in the recessed lighting but not in the larger light fixtures.
I agree with you that the integrated fixtures need to prove their longevity and parts availability. For now, I will stick with the Edison base A19 fixtures that can work with a multitude of bulbs available everywhere. Thaks for the video.
A19 is the standard bulb shape and size. A is the shape, so A21 is a bit larger. Those sizes are roughly 1/8s (eighths) of an inch, so 19/8ths or 21/8ths of an inch in diameter. G are round bulbs, also in a variety of sizes from little G8s, common G40s, or bigger. But those sizes are in millimeters! And watch out for different size edison bases. "edison" just means they screw in. E26/E27 is the normal. E12 is also known as candelabra, E39 is also known as mogul. Sometimes you run into E17 (more common in Europe). Those numbers are the diameter in millimeters. And of course California has to be different and they mandate a different socket type so you cannot use a normal incandescent in the fixture. 😢 Now you start to understand the appeal of integrated LEDs. Or if like me you end up looking to order a fixture that takes bulbs, you need to know all that to know what you are going to get! 😥
@@Sylvan_dB - I've tried finding anything on California mandating a socket that's different from the E26 socket, and can't find anything on it. Could you point me in the direction on where this info is from?
@@someoneoncesaid6978 It was the pinned GU24 base, and the CA Energy Commission ruled it required 2008 to comply with "high efficiency" fixture requirements. I say, "was" because I've seen references that the requirement was dropped in 2017, but I've not confirmed that. In any case, 10 years of light fixtures still exist even if the requirement is history.
@@Sylvan_dB - Yes, the 2017 law on energy efficient bulbs says that they _do not_ have to be GU24 sockets to be considered high efficiency. Even when GU24 was being pushed, it wasn't a requirement, just recommended - you could still buy A19/E26 fixtures and bulbs in CA.
@@someoneoncesaid6978 title 24 compliance was required in many situations and title 24 required high efficiency fixtures and high efficiency fixtures required gu24 not Edison. If you knew all that, why were you asking? Never mind, I know why.
I have an old pos house with hardly any fixtures so I go 100W+ almost everywhere. The only exception is my living room where I have several 50+ year old lamps from my grandparents house where I use warm 60Ws Integrated LEDs are trash. What we really need is a new standard for LED specific bulbs that don't require wasteful and fragile inverters.
Agreed. It's been several years now, but when I decided to switch from CFL bulbs to LEDs here, I made a conscious effort to keep my fixtures the way they are, and use the most common LED bulbs out there for this exact reason. Later on, I decided to also switch my tiny kitchen lights from fluorescent tubes, right when one of them burned, to just plain LED bulbs too... more than enough for the area, and if I ever want to brighten up specific spaces I'll just go with a LED strip instead. It also paid off in little time... a few years later I decided to replace a few of the lights with a warmer tone, and it was as easy as replacing regular lamps. My mom's apartment was kind of an exception though... the ceiling is so low, and the space between the drywall and ceiling is so thin that we had to go with flat recessed led fixtures. But we chose the simplest square design possible, and I got some extras in a kit for the entire apartment. It's gonna be sh*t to replace when they go out, but my mom would need someone to help her anyways to do it, so it doesn't make that much of a difference. What I will do though if I ever change them myself, is using Wago connectors to make things easier.
I think as long as you're getting a decently known brand the wafer canless lights are pretty nice. I went with the Halo ones this time and put about 12 of the 4inch round lights in my kitchen and hallways. I had a few in my previous home that were still going strong after 7 years when I sold it. I feel like even if you get only 10 years out of them I'd say they're worth it. Once they're installed it's not that hard to swap them out if something goes wrong.
I remember when i first came across those in home depot. I was blown away. I thought it couldnt be true...how could they make a throw away light fixture....but thats exactly what they did lol. I like the OPTION of them cause of how flush they are with ceiling, but thats bout it. Per case basis in my opinion
I agree about the direction of the industry. I've purchased a couple of LED fixtures and dread the day, that I know is coming, when one goes out because I didn't purchase an extra. My go-to LED bulbs are the Feit Electric 60 watt bulbs available at Costco and elsewhere. You control them with an app on your smartphone where you can select the color temperature and even different colors (great for holidays). Plus they're dimmable and you can set schedules using the app. Feit Electric also makes outdoor timers, wall switches and receptacles that are all controllable using the app.
They are so cheap I bought twice as many as I needed (actually, the good price was only in that quantity.) They will probably be seriously obsolete before I get through all the spares.
We changed all of our 23 boob lights from circular florescent to Edison screw sockets for all the reasons you mentioned. Pre-LED we used CFLs, and over the past 15 years we have evolved to all LED with no more fixture changes.
We have updated all of the lights in the home and shop to LED that have. A 23 year life span and they are plastic but the best part in case of power outage they run for 4 hours and come with a portable light switch holder to hang anywhere U need lighting. Unbreakable and no heat so they won't burn you..
I like those levernuts, never seen them before, but I may get some to keep around the house. It sounds like the drawbacks of LED's are an industry issue and not a problem with LED's themselves. I prefer standardization most of the time.
Good points, I have had lots of problems with the inverter driver. Lifetime was 1-3 years. I gave up and threw mine out and went back to standard base bulbs.
Good idea including "weird bases" on your "No Go" list. Just had someone looking for a 25 Watt "large" (MR16?) Halogen with a GU10 base... If it isn't an E26 or E12 people really should think hard if they really need the fixture.
I use the soft white bulbs in most cases, for some I want the equivalent of 100w of brightness. The problem is these bulbs don't last long they run too hot and the components die early. The problem is the heat has no place to go in most LED bulbs. I recently bought some bulbs that have ventilation holes both above the LEDs and below them, that lets the heat escape and not bake the electronics.
I responded to your question earlier, and really like how you presented this subject in this video. I especially like the idea of buying one extra to replace a failed fixture, but agree, you need to store it in a cooler location to prevent heat aging.
I already made the mistake of outfitting my new trailer home with all new fixtures with integrated LEDs. The whole thing made me nervous and still does. There are some advantages, but I dread the day I have to start replacing things.
So far I have not had to replace a fixture and the LED bulbs are working nicely. My frustration comes from the many fixtures I have that use small base 25 watt bulbs and the impossibly of finding LED replacements.
I work as a merchandiser in a big box home improvement retailer. If a customer asks me about this choice, I point out any display units that are strobing, and there’s always a couple, and they catch on quick.
I live in a neighborhood where the developer choose to install solar LED streetlight 8 years ago (cost effective for them as opposed to normal electric lights and underground wiring). They are now starting to fail. As you say, we cannot find replacements in kind. And, we fear that any replacements we buy now will not be available when they fail. Thus, we either have to replace all 30 of them now or start down the path of have a mixture of fixtures going forward.
I also don't like integrated bulbs. My current go-to for most residential fixtures is the Edison base bulb: Cree Lighting Exceptional Series A19 Bulb, 2700K Dimmable LED Bulb, 60W + 815 Lumens, Soft White.
Yup! Once one LED out of 50 or 60 fails your entire fixture is dead. Sure you can sometimes pinpoint the failed LED cut it out but that will just cause the rest to draw more current and cause the rest to fail much sooner.
@@benkeysor7576 Unless of course you install fixtures where the LEDs are wired in parallel. Come to think of it I've never seen LED arrays that weren't wired in parallel because they have to be. The control circuitry is another story.
@@JustaPilot1 All fixtures unless running from 5 volts are going to run some number of LEDs in series inside the fixture. For 120V LED bulbs that is often 36 LED diode junctions but could be a few more (up to ~52 depending on diode forward voltage) when rectified and smothed since 120v X 1.414 = ~170V you can buy packages with 1, 2, 3, 6, 9, and 12 LED junctions on one COB depending on the forward voltage available and have many cobs in series and parallel to get the desired amount of light output.
But the fixtures cost about the same as two or three decent A19/E26 LED bulbs, so it may be planned obsolescence, but it's not really costing more in the long run, and you get to change out your entire fixture style every decade. A decent number of them are also Alexa / Google compatible, so you can do things like program them on motion sensors so you save energy by turning off when you leave the room or give off different amounts of light at different times of day (like bright during the day and dimmer at night so that you're not blinded when you go to the kitchen for a late night snack).
@@JustaPilot1 no. Wrong. You REALLY don't want parallel LEDs. When an LED fails, it often fails short. This draws excess current, stresses the drive circuitry, generated heat, and robs the parallel LEDs of power. You can see this in larger LEDs with several strings of LEDs in parallel. One LED will fail, and that string will pull extra power and get brighter. Then the other LED strings will draw less power and dim. The chips in that one string will fail sooner as well. There's also the problem of LEDs being a mostly a current driven device. Once you reach a certain voltage, an LED acts (to a first approximation) as though it will draw as much current as you're willing to give it. That means if one LED isn't perfectly matched, it'll draw no current... Or it'll draw ALL the current. The fix for this is separate resistors for each parallel element. The higher the value, the less the difference in current draw. Except the higher the resistance, the more inefficiency and therefor heat dissipated at a given current. Better to have a single strand of LEDs in series with a single, current regulated power supply.
Integrated exterior lights have already been a problem for me when one of 5 failed. I would pick the easily replaced screw-in bulb every time. And at my age, screwing in a bulb is much easier than replacing an entire fixture.
We just installed over $1,000 worth of integrated LED light fixtures in an addition to our business building so let's see how that goes. They supposedly have a 5 year warranty! I did not like it but it was the practical option for the meantime in the large new space. Then the outside lights had to have a built in emergency light feature.
As an electrical design engineer I cautioned my clients that LED would lead to throwaway light fixtures (luminaries) many years ago. We just set a standard for our condo association that exterior lights must be screw-in bulb type. No one is going to stock replacement parts as the technology changes so rapidly.
I tried those flat integrated lights and hated them immediately. They most shoot the light straight down and have too much glare. I went with a semi flush for the kitchen with 3 bulbs. It had a much more pleasing light but it wasn't bright enough with 3 60wt bulbs so I switched them to 3000k 100wt bulbs and they were perfect. I found the same glare issue with the install anywhere wafer style canless "recessed" lights. I decided to go with the baffle style.
I bought a house a couple of years ago that had a bunch of these integrated led’s. They have all died. It is so maddening to have to replace the fixture.
Good video. I hate the LED-integrated ceiling lights. Walk into any building that's swapped out old fixtures for the new, integrated models, and the color temperature is poorly set, and they cheapen the look of any space they inhabit. So yes, I favor choosing my own, A19-compatible, lovely light fixture, and select high-quality LED bulbs of the right color temperature (3k to 3.4k). I also make sure the CRI (color-rendering index) is 90 or better. Doing so, the fixture looks great, on or off.
I find your presentations well done and interesting . FYI it is possible to obtain flat, dimmable light emitting diode replacement lights, probably with some careful measurements. I just did a search and found a number of places that sell them. It would likely require some careful measurements to ensure one gets the correct replacement, but it seems do-able. Thanks for sharing.
Many of the LED bulbs say not suitable for totally enclosed fixtures--ie that dome fixture on the ceiling behind you. There are dome fixtures that are offset from the ceiling by about 1 cm and thus are vented.
I was going to say that the only ones I'm planning to use are the can light replacements, then I got to the end of your video and saw you reference them. Thanks for the tip on buying an extra. Having one go bad has been my biggest concern.
I totally agree and won’t be using integrated light fixtures anytime soon. I switched my entire house to LED screw base lights bulbs in 2016, and have had a number of them burn out since then (over 20 bulbs). I buy EcoSmart LED bulbs from Home Depot. I can take my bad bulbs back to Home Depot without a package or receipt, and they always replace them at no charge. The advertised 10 year longevity appears to be a myth.
Guess I'll be changing the store I buy LED's from. I purchased the standard base LED bulbs by Sylvania at Menards. Seven year warranty. I wrote the date I installed them on the base of the bulb. Year and a few months later one of the two died. Emailed Sylvania and never heard back. Couldn't find a number for them either. A few weeks later the second bulb stopped working. And Menards would not honor the warranty either. Thanks for the heads up.
Interestingly, the integrated units I bought a couple years ago for about $8 apiece have all given great service, while the Ecosmart bulbs in my over-sink lighting lose one out of the three every few months. On the other hand, I can reach them with a step stool so it's no big deal. the redundancy of three lamps for the sink is also useful.
Every light in my house is 5000k. I also have a mixture of fixtures with integrated LEDS and fixtures with A19 bases. My wife really likes the integrated LED fixtures.
outdoor lights 2200k, living rooms, bedrooms 2700k. bathrooms and kitchens 3000k-3500k. basements, garages and other workspaces 4100k-5000k. Always replaceable bulbs or plug in fixtures,
I like color changing leds for living spaces. Some are smart (any color red blue daylight, soft white, et cetera) some are click button (different whites).
100% agree. I have no plans to buy integrated fixtures. I have one in a fan that came with the house, and the light doesn’t suit the room at all. To change it, I’ll need to change the whole fan. It’s on the list, but such a waste.
I have same dilemma on outdoor lighting. On my house I have two fixtures on either side of garage, one by front door, as well as a post lamp in yard! It's almost impossible to find things that match and thus far it's easy to change a bulb that goes out. If these were integrated led fixtures, it's highly unlikely I'll find something that matches, thus going through the expense of replacing several fixtures at one time.
...and work all circuits (as much as possible) as if they are hot. With Lock Out Tag Out it is unnecessary, but if somebody could wonder why the breaker is off and make it live... well. (Retired from 34 years field support with an electric utility.)
I was worried about the integrated light on my new ceiling fan as well. Sure enough after two years the white led array went out. So when you cycled through the color choices nothing changed. Luckily most of the fan light kits are a separate piece. A short conversation with the seller on Amazon and they sent out for free, a new array and was an easy swap out.
3000K 60w equiv for me I’ve replaced all of my ceiling fixtures with Integrated LEDs. Those I’ve bought at big box stores are pretty crappy, but Ferguson sells some higher quality / higher priced ones that seem really well made in comparison, and with better size choices. We’ll see how long they last, but for now they’re working+looking great after 2 years. Wow! Haven’t seen those In-Line splice wagos. Learned something new from you again. Thanks, Scott!
I am installing them in my kitchen as a substitute for recessed can lighting. They allow me to ignore the location of the ceiling joists. Admittedly I will keep a few spares and hope they have a good lifespan. I also have LED light-strips under the kitchen cabinets and they are similarly un-serviceable. However in both cases these are meant as supplemental lighting and not the primary lighting for the room.
First off, I am a subscriber and watch all your videos. Overall, you have provided some great tips, perspectives and suggestions for home renovation DIY. With that said though, I cannot agree or disagree with your assessment of the LED market. On one hand, having LED are definitely an energy saver over time, and I say that because the house I live in was chock full of incandescent and fluorescent bulbs that were exchanged for LED. Couple that with the fact that three areas of my home have 80's style track lighting, (I'll never understand the appeal). I just replaced one set of track lighting in the kitchen to a flat-panel LED light. Bought from my local HD, this $100 panel was relatively easy to install and the light from it is much cleaner and no longer feels like I'm on stage. Prior to install, I removed the LED bulbs I placed in the track lighting, after moving in and I noticed just how hot the LED bulb bases were. To me, that seemed odd, but considering the step down of voltage, I suppose that's common, unless it has to do with the brand of LED bulb. The panel I bought is said to last 75,000 hours, which seems like a great reason to switch over, but honestly, if it has the longevity and if something were to happen to it, replacing it is no skin off my nose, because when the time comes, who knows what better technologies will be available at that time. This panel has a feature to change the color temp, which is a plus for a kitchen, the profile is very low (slightly less than an inch) and the mount is solid with a simple hookup. Btw, Waggos are not sold retail where I live, which I find odd (perhaps they are not rated to be as safe as the cheaper, tried and true wirenuts?) Lastly, I don't think it's necessary to inject an fear of buying LED lighting with the possibility of not having the same style 10 years from now. People's tastes change, often due to technology shifts or just overall trending styles. I think the takeaway is that our homes are an investment and something as innocuous as lighting style and function is something that will change regardless (ex. going from incandescent to LED). It should also be noted that your mileage may vary as far as longevity of lighting, primarily due to lighting usage, just like the older incandescents.
Hey J, thanks for all the support and appreciate the detailed feedback. I am a bit skewed with some early failures on integrated LED light fixtures and hopefully my experience is not representative of the average homeowner. Also, having a handful of rentals definitely makes me a bit cautious switching over.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs I totally understand now, your aversion to integrated LED fixtures, due to your rentals. You can never predict what the tenant may do to the property or how they will treat it. I should note that the fixture I recently installed is made for wet environments, which I figured would do a tad bit better in the kitchen (i.e. steam and any other vapor related things). No one really knows whether or not something they buy WILL last as long as advertised, sometimes I ponder that in itself that it may be a marketing tactic, but as I said before, it's all about the investment, at least for the common homeowner. As a side note, and this is not indicative to your channel or how you run it, but I have realized lately that many DIY channels I have watched or even currently subscribe to, have a bit of that "do this not that" attitude, varying every so often that I find I never get good answers to things or find myself even more confused or undecided than before. We'll all have our opinions and experiences, good or bad but in the end, you take it with a grain of salt, I suppose.
I always go with a tunable smart bulb. Being able to use HomeAssistant to automatically adjust color temperature based on the angle of the sun is the best of all worlds.
I prefer the 2700 K 60w which I find to be the closest hue to an incandescent, but the difference between 2700 and 3000 K is negligible. I was an early adopter of LED and my biggest problem has been replacing bulbs that fail. We have two large rooms, each with four large can lights, and one area with two. Often years later the color (temp) of a bulb with identical specifications does not match the working bulbs. If you are picky like me that leads to replacing all four. I eventually use the older bulbs but it adds cost. However, I purchased four BR40 bulbs for my kitchen back in 2015 for $25 each, now a set of four equivalent bulbs can be purchased for just $25 so the prices have plummeted. Three of the four bulbs purchased in 2015 are still working fine so the life of the LED does far exceed the old incandescents, especially in can lights.
I refuse to use integrated fixtures in my house anymore. After installing four integrated LED dawn-to-dusk fixtures around my barn in early 2020, in 2021 I had one burn out. What was once a simple matter of climbing a ladder and changing the bulb, now turned into a bit of an ordeal of having to climb a ladder with a cordless drill, wire nuts, mounting screws, and a new fixture. Not fun when the fixture is mounted to the gable, and 18 to 20 feet from ground level.
I changed all four of our fixtures of that type last year. The ones I bought are clearly not premium; they came out to $8 per unit in bulk. They are the type that have a light bulb type screw connector and the mounting spring wires to connect and mount to the existing cans after removing the screw-in bulbs. By the time my spares are used up there will be yet another New Kid in Town to replace my 2020ish units. This is not going to come to a halt in my lifetime.
I have a couple of the integrated fixtures in my house just because I needed something and they were so cheap at Costco. I almost couldn’t buy a couple led bulbs for the price. If they fail, I’ll swap them out with something else.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs It must be a personal thing but I don't get that all the fixtures have to match. My wife does not a problem having different fixtures in any room and I don't really care.
@@dwightl5863 This is good for your personal living situation, but should you require the services of an estate agent, you should get ahead and match at least the colour temperature and possibly same fixtures per room. Mixed colour temperatures trigger too many people!
No! Keep serviceable fixtures!!! Plus, I like to be a control freak on color & brightness of each fixture, and may want to change those on a whim. I might do those little slim pancakes in closets, or in showers (code permitting), but that's about it.
One big problem with integrated fixtures is some manufacturers over drive the LED’s to get the most output. In that case they fail quicker, which is the driver circuit not the led’s. Yeah they will say 10 years but I’ve seen them fail in 2-3 years and good luck getting them replaced. In most of my existing fixtures I just use led bulbs. In my kitchen I use the low profile circular (cloud type) fluorescents. They last and have higher lumens.
I agree with you 100%! I love the thin profile, but not having the average homeowner be able to replace burned out light isn't practical. I do all my own electrical and I don't feel like swapping an entire fixture just because it burned out. Got my gf some ceiling fans, and I avoided these integrated fixtures...could you imagine having to replace the whole fan because the light is out?! They say these fixtures last 10 years... No way!
Don't store your fixtures in a hot attic. The chemical capacitors will dry out faster. It's usually the capacitors at all cause a circuit to go bad. If you're handy with a soldering gun you can even replace the capacitors on the circuit board depending on the design
When choosing the LED round panel lights that you refer to at the end, make sure you go with a standard size like 3, 4, or 6 inch. When we redid our master bath 16 years ago the can lights we were sold by the fancy lighting store are a custom size. If I want to switch them to the LED panels it means cutting a bigger hole in the ceiling or using a goof ring. That's why I haven't replaced those ones yet🙂. I like the panel lights because they make the room feel taller without a light fixture hanging down.
Bulbs are absolutely my go to choice simply because there are many different ones to choose from and will always be an inexpensive replacement when the bulbs fail--and they do. Where wafer-style lights were needed in my kitchen, I used fixtures that utilize a step-down transformer behind the lamp assembly so the lamp itself receives only the low power needed and the fixture runs cool.
Almost 12 years ago I updated all the light fixtures in our house, but at the time LED bulbs were still expensive. I made sure even then to get A19 base fixtures, even though all kinds of odd bulb connector types were being introduced at the time. It has been one of the best decisions I've made in terms of home improvements. For the past 5 to 6 years all the bulbs in the house are A19 LED bulbs and many are still the original bulbs I put in 6 years ago. (A few failures due to a bad batch during manufacturing it seems). But it was a lot less stressful to replace those bulbs rather than the whole fixture.
The previous owners of my house put in some integrated led's... I will not be adding more, but I also don't see a need to get rid of them until they break.
I like the led fixtures but I haven’t had issues with them going out yet I’m my home or any of my customers. I’m sure once that happens I may not like them anymore. You make a very valid point, though. It’s either going to drive up business for electricians or it will drive people into the diy space to learn how to replace their own fixtures.
Yeah, I like the Idea as well but especially for my rentals it is a pretty big pain when they fail. Will be interesting to see which direction the industry goes in the coming years.
I use the 2700K, they give the 'air' of the older bulbs. Nothing more than 3500K since I have a sensitivity to higher Blue light content. I stick with serviceable fixtures, except over cabinets or similar applications.
When we repainted the interior (okay... it is still in progress) I bought some bluer bulbs to go with the blue-gray wall paint. The 2700Ks were better because they didn't cause glare off the walls. Now I have to go back to listening to my wife.
I've been pretty happy with the integrated LED fixtures that I've installed in my house. They're nice and thin and look very clean. None of them has burned out yet in the last few years. What I don't like about the Edison base bulbs is that they only emit light from a hemisphere; much of the bulb is an opaque white base. This makes them look bad in a lot of fixtures. Recently, I replaced the 12V 35W MR-16 bulbs in my recessed ceiling fixtures. There were 72 of them (!). I used 35-watt equivalent LED's, which drew 4 watts each, saving a couple of kilowatts of draw. The light quality is very similar to the incandescent bulbs.
My front room has a 40W LED dome, it's wifi/bluetooth controlable and will do anything between 2700-5500k light at the touch of a slider on a phone/tablet (or voice). It's so bright that for general use I have it turned down to 1% on the slider as 100% is uncomfortable. I also use a lot of smart bulbs around the house that can be tuned to the white temperature I want in each location. My feelings are that if they only last 5 years that isn't really a problem because the light technology is moving so fast I would probably want to replace them by then anyways.
I can screw in a lightbulb without getting out any tools or turning off the power and I keep extra bulbs in the closet. Changing out a fixture might be a simple project, but it's still a project.
I do have an integrated LED fan as well. Originally, I thought the light brightness was a bit weak and this light comes with a remote. I used the remote light on/off for the light while it was on and kept it press and walla! I had found the dimmer feature. I’m much happier now! Thanks for the info and your take on the LED upgrades. 👍🏽
My biggest concern with LEDs is the cheap drivers that are used to drive them. In most cases, when the LED dies, it is not the LED diodes themselves, but the cheap driver being used to drive them. Drives me nuts!
Right on. If the LED isn't abused by transients or excessive dissipated power, they will last 20+ years. The components that pulsewidth modulate the LED array can have any number of issues, or could be a poor design.
Your observations are spot on Scott - thank you. Two replies. First, I lived in a townhouse for decades - started with incandescent bulbs and to save money (or though *WE* thought) I moved to CFLs. Maybe the touted length of time they offered were good value for the cost, but within 6mths or so they would have that slowness to get to full brightness. Coupled with a hazmat scenario if they break (mercury) I was happy to replace them with the "lasts up to 22 years - based on 3hr per day usage" scammy LED bulbs. (My weapon of choice is typically a 3000K and then either the 60W or 100W replacement variety based on room type). Though nothing scientific, I am left with a bad taste with these - they do not live up to the length of time they tout (bad value like the CFLs). I recently moved into a new home and lo and behold I was hit with many LED style lights - PAR16s, GU10s, G9s and the wretched SLIM 4" pot lights (more on that next reply). Also I had about 4 integrated LED fixtures - already one is dead - it would not go on, then another day it would. I immediately replaced with the old style lamp holder and screwed in a serviceable LED bulb hanging off a motion dongle. My dilemma now is a questionable outdoor motion light. Scouring AMZN I see the same two options --- 80% are lovely looking but non-serviceable integrated LEDs. Other than a lantern style, the only other option with a serviceable bulb is the same exact ugly Heath Zenith junk - a similar model to what I installed at the TH 20yr back and what currently hangs. Knowing what I know and yes you know the same thing - I can buy a beautiful bright outdoor sensor - but it won't last and I will be again up that ladder clocking time in replacing it with another unit. It would be one thing if these units used a UNIQUE LED bulb type you could just buy to replace - screw or push in - but they don't. They will fail and they won't last anything near the touted time. IMO 22 years probably more like "Death By Decimal" - 2 -5 yrs tops.
My preferred bulb? I was running some tunable white smart bulbs but noticed that I tended to stick on the warmer end, so I picked up some Philips Ultra Definition bulbs (93 CRI) in the dimmable warm glow model and added the 5000k 100W ones in my garage. I thought I would not like the warm glow functionality so I bought only 1 to test, but I liked the way that it dimmed way more than bulbs that stayed at the same colour temperature. The bulbs are fantastic, they dim really low, do not flicker (to my eyes) and they look really natural when they dim. I will admit that I like the A19 version better than the GU10 though. It took me so long to find replacement non-integrated fixtures to replace some LED light bars (those ones that look like office/fluorescent lights). I was looking for months for ones that I really liked since so many fixtures are integrated LED now. Everyone I know was trying to push my into the integrated ones but I hate the inflexibility of them. Even with a dimmer that's made for LEDs, and a dimmable light, you might not have the performance you want (linearity, flickering, minimum brightness) but with an integrated fixture you are now stuck. Bulbs are not only an easy change, but an easy test (you can buy 1 bulb to see if you even like them before investing more time and money). I just got this house and there were some integrated LED fixtures installed (6 or 7 of them). I want to install some dimmers because when it is late at night I don't like to run the lights at full brightness, but these models that they chose are not dimmable so now I essentially have to trash a whole light fixture when I would have just changed a bulb out of an old fixture.
I fully agree with you on the show stopper issue of non-serviceability. It gets even worse with some other devices, such as e.g., expensive ceiling fans. Thank for this video.
For what it's worth, one difference between screw in bulbs & integrated fixtures is the implementation of the power conversion circuitry. One factoid about electronics is that the life of the components are strongly affected by temperature... lower is better. In the integrated fixture, the power converter can be spread out so that the power density is lower, therefore the temperature of the hot components can be lower. Meanwhile, in the screw in bulb, there isn't a whole lot of volume to put the circuitry in so the components are crammed into a small base with not a lot of good ways to get rid of heat. Thus the temperature of the hot components tends to be higher & the reliability suffers. If you want to geek out, look into electronic reliability and operating temperatures. On a personal basis, I have a LOT of LED based lighting. The observed failure rate for screw in bulbs vastly exceeds that of the integrated fixtures, BUT the repair for the integrated fixture is far more inconvenient. I strongly agree with your suggestion to buy spares at the time you are installing the fixtures as many of those fixtures aren't available in the market for very long and even those that do stick around have a tendency to look & act subtly different as the design & manufacturing processes improve/change.
This seriously sounds like lighting companies going the route of planned obsolescence. I don't care if I sound like an old man, but I shouldn't have to replace entire fixtures because the LEDs start to fail.
Its long term control, so that instead of spending on a simple replacement bulb, you have to then get someone to replace the whole unit - so labour and unit costs is going to be much more expensive if you can even locate exactly what you need. I will stick to standard LED bulb's. Sadly in the UK getting new bayonet fittings is become extremely difficult because of some crazy reason they are all going over to screw in bulbs !
I prefer traditional fixtures that accept standard Edison base bulbs for exactly the reasons you stated. Typically it's not the LEDs that fail first but the drive circuitry, and I have rarely seen them last more than a few years. Failure is accelerated in you are in an area with dirty power (lots of brownouts and surges).
They also fail quicker if they overheat. I've been getting some integrated light fixtures, but I've been making sure that the LEDs are spaced out pretty well across the surface, and if they're dimmable (either through an app or a toggle switch) I get ones that can do more lumens than I need and bump them down 25% to 50% so that they're not running at full power.
Failure also happens if the bulb/fixture doesn't have a flow of air on it. The LED Edison base bulb variety fail due to the heat it can't shed, AND they use 85c to 105c caps in them which is far too low to survive. I kept blowing LED E15 bulbs in my Den until I remove the glass globes that housed each bulb.
i was going to say that
as a UK electrician i have installed thousands of LED bulk heads for commercial premises in the city (London ) these work well for the purpose )stair wells plant rooms hall ways _ where the lights are either on all the time or are switched a couple of times a day ro week but in the home do you want to be buying a new fitting after three to five years ? thats IF you don't get the fitting thats going to last five minutes ! being able to remove and replace the lamp relatively cheaply EG an ES or BC cap is better for home owners plus you have a greater array of fittings to chose and you dont have to worry that in five or six years you can get one that matches
I’ve had an integrated light fail in 1 year the exact way you described. The drive electronics broke
@@kyutablet Yep, the led themselves will last past a human's life unless overpowered. The issue is all the Chinese guts of these so I say hell no to purchasing something I know will fail.
I had replaced most of my light fixtures with the integrated lights. At 70, I knew my days of changing light bulbs was limited. Integrated lights we’re supposed to last many years; wrong, I found them to begin failing (strobing) in just a few years. Now I have gone back to bulbs for all but one because the integrated ones died. Good video and recommendations on lighting.
I totally agree with you. I do not like integrated led. I like the flexibility to change out bulbs. ❤
We’re sticking with the bulb style because we like our fixture styles and we want to stay with these as long as possible 😁😁👍👍
I agree. Those integrated led fixtures are garbage. And it’s plain irresponsible for those companies to be selling such throwaway products.
And instead of throwing out just the bulb you have to buy a new fixture but styles change and you may be out of luck buying the same model. Not only that more waste going into landfills.
All people need to do is not buy them
@@ragheadand420roll right, but most people don’t realize what they’re buying these days or if they do don’t care how long something like this will last
It gets worse! They print it like it's a feature! "No lightbulbs to replace!" It makes me so angry. Don't sell me manure and tell me it's chocolate.
I say that as someone who bought 2. (1' x 2' flat panels) I have a low ceiling basement and wanted a 1/2" thick light panel because recessed seemed like too much work (replacing large 4 bulb flourescents). (I bought the fixture before realizing I would need to install junction boxes). And they have a button with 5 colors from soft warm to daylight. But yeah. It's terrible design. I expect to maybe need to wire in new lights every 5-10 years. And led recycling isn't where it needs to be.
I would never consider it for new construction or if I have a tall enough ceiling.
I don't believe this garbage they sell. I replaced some florescent lights with LEDs and after 2 years they were duds. They don't last the ten and fifteen years they.claim. home use may get ten years if the light.is.off most of the time. My bathroom light been is still going after the first generation of LED Edison base replacement bulbs. I think you will get more use out of those lights. I don't trust any light unattended so I make sure all lights are off before leaving for work. Also on trips no lights are left on. I think all lights would last longer if we go from 120 or 125 volts to 110 volts. I have a voltage reducer for my Christmas light displays. Before reducing the voltage I would be replacing 7 to 10 LED lights in a short 3 week time. After reducing the voltage I haven't replaced one LED light. If I decide to go off grid for electric I will try to find 110 volt or even 105 volt pure sine wave inverter for my lighting. The rest of the house can have 120 volts for motors and other electric appliances. My lighting is on its own circuit to I can use a sub panel for such circuits and hook it to the 110 inverter. The rest can be 120 volts or actually 240 volts with a 120 volt tap. The well runs on 240 volts. I would use gas to heat my water. 73
Someone that buys my house someday will have you to thank. Every fixture I’ve touched I re-wire with Wago’s and re-wire all my receptacles to the screws from the back stab method.
A little creativity allows different light fixtures and designs intermix beautifully whenever any old light fixture needs replacement. And we always get to enjoy the latest technologies.
Happy homeowner here (not a landlord/rental property owner). I have two integrated LED light fixtures that I am generally satisfied with. They have been running less than 5 years, I believe. Throughout the rest of the house, I have fixtures with a mix of fluorescent and LED light bulbs. The ease of maintenance with bulbs can't be denied.
For my situation, the integrated LED light fixtures do a great job (lighting a dark kitchen/dining room) so far. As the fluorescent bulbs fail, I will replace them with LED bulbs.
I agree. I don’t like the integrated LED fixtures. I use the small recessed lights whenever possible. I actually buy an extra recessed light for every 6 I put up as those fixtures also change often. Great tips!
I agree, integrated can work on a table lamp when you can easily replace it but you should not need to change fixtures when a bulb goes down. This is especially important when installing to someone else. Do you even get a fixture you like in 10 years.
I agree that the 3000K color temperature is best for home use - not sickly yellow and not jarring blue. Unfortunately the manufacturers are not consistent with their descriptive labeling. The terms "bright white", "warm white" and "cool white" are meaningless. Pay attention to the actual color temperature (e.g., 3000K). I stay away from so-called 40W or 60W "equivalent" bulbs - they are usually not bright enough for reading. A "100-watt equivalent" (1200 to 1500 lumens) is more suited to larger rooms or for spaces where you want to read. Good video, keep up the good work.
100 watt lumina should be 1620 not 1500 but you know not to get into politics some good for nothing leader thought we should bow down to the EU. Not on your Life. This is America and we are free if we let ourselves be free. Freedom has a cost. 73
Moving and replacing the fixtures I installed when we moved in 26 years ago. These fixtures were gifts from a relative that has since passed and hold a sentimental value not easily matched by anything in this world. Bought 2 of those LED ceiling fixtures and the new home owner will be dealing with them in 10 years.
I like a 100w equivalent, 5000k Daylight, but might wire in a Dimmer. Many Thanks Sir. Your Ideas and Advice are excellent.
Thanks Elle 🙌
For me, serviceability is king! I like high color temperature / good color rendering in work areas, low color temperature in leisure areas.
Bought a house in April. The integrated light in the ceiling fan burned out in September. They don't make a replacement so was going to have to buy entire new fan and light...until I found a replacement led driver on Amazon for $12. It's not sanctioned but, I'm handy and made it work.
We have a 20 year old or more florescent light in our kitchen, very beautiful light with woodgrain around it, and we don't want to replace it so we replaced the wiring and all of that inside it. Works perfectly, so there's no point of replacing it with something else, and it also fits the them of the kitchen
I think you are seeing these kind of lights, which I call throw-a-ways, because you are looking at Lowe's, and Home Depot. I have been shopping on line for lighting, Hayneedle, Wayfair, Lamps Plus etc., and most of the fixtures take standard light bulbs. Some throw-a-ways, but probably less then 10%. Yeah the stuff I'm looking at cost more, but I think the style and quality is worth it.
Completely agree across the board. A 3000 K, 60W LED has been our standard for years. I think the new integrated LEDs work great in the recessed lighting but not in the larger light fixtures.
👊
I agree with you that the integrated fixtures need to prove their longevity and parts availability. For now, I will stick with the Edison base A19 fixtures that can work with a multitude of bulbs available everywhere. Thaks for the video.
A19 is the standard bulb shape and size. A is the shape, so A21 is a bit larger. Those sizes are roughly 1/8s (eighths) of an inch, so 19/8ths or 21/8ths of an inch in diameter. G are round bulbs, also in a variety of sizes from little G8s, common G40s, or bigger. But those sizes are in millimeters!
And watch out for different size edison bases. "edison" just means they screw in. E26/E27 is the normal. E12 is also known as candelabra, E39 is also known as mogul. Sometimes you run into E17 (more common in Europe). Those numbers are the diameter in millimeters.
And of course California has to be different and they mandate a different socket type so you cannot use a normal incandescent in the fixture. 😢
Now you start to understand the appeal of integrated LEDs. Or if like me you end up looking to order a fixture that takes bulbs, you need to know all that to know what you are going to get! 😥
@@Sylvan_dB - I've tried finding anything on California mandating a socket that's different from the E26 socket, and can't find anything on it. Could you point me in the direction on where this info is from?
@@someoneoncesaid6978 It was the pinned GU24 base, and the CA Energy Commission ruled it required 2008 to comply with "high efficiency" fixture requirements. I say, "was" because I've seen references that the requirement was dropped in 2017, but I've not confirmed that. In any case, 10 years of light fixtures still exist even if the requirement is history.
@@Sylvan_dB - Yes, the 2017 law on energy efficient bulbs says that they _do not_ have to be GU24 sockets to be considered high efficiency. Even when GU24 was being pushed, it wasn't a requirement, just recommended - you could still buy A19/E26 fixtures and bulbs in CA.
@@someoneoncesaid6978 title 24 compliance was required in many situations and title 24 required high efficiency fixtures and high efficiency fixtures required gu24 not Edison.
If you knew all that, why were you asking? Never mind, I know why.
I have an old pos house with hardly any fixtures so I go 100W+ almost everywhere. The only exception is my living room where I have several 50+ year old lamps from my grandparents house where I use warm 60Ws
Integrated LEDs are trash. What we really need is a new standard for LED specific bulbs that don't require wasteful and fragile inverters.
Agreed. It's been several years now, but when I decided to switch from CFL bulbs to LEDs here, I made a conscious effort to keep my fixtures the way they are, and use the most common LED bulbs out there for this exact reason.
Later on, I decided to also switch my tiny kitchen lights from fluorescent tubes, right when one of them burned, to just plain LED bulbs too... more than enough for the area, and if I ever want to brighten up specific spaces I'll just go with a LED strip instead.
It also paid off in little time... a few years later I decided to replace a few of the lights with a warmer tone, and it was as easy as replacing regular lamps.
My mom's apartment was kind of an exception though... the ceiling is so low, and the space between the drywall and ceiling is so thin that we had to go with flat recessed led fixtures. But we chose the simplest square design possible, and I got some extras in a kit for the entire apartment. It's gonna be sh*t to replace when they go out, but my mom would need someone to help her anyways to do it, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.
What I will do though if I ever change them myself, is using Wago connectors to make things easier.
I think as long as you're getting a decently known brand the wafer canless lights are pretty nice. I went with the Halo ones this time and put about 12 of the 4inch round lights in my kitchen and hallways. I had a few in my previous home that were still going strong after 7 years when I sold it. I feel like even if you get only 10 years out of them I'd say they're worth it. Once they're installed it's not that hard to swap them out if something goes wrong.
been doing this for awhile, my wife rolls her eyes because i end up having to store all extra parts but when the part goes bad, i'm a hero
I remember when i first came across those in home depot. I was blown away. I thought it couldnt be true...how could they make a throw away light fixture....but thats exactly what they did lol.
I like the OPTION of them cause of how flush they are with ceiling, but thats bout it. Per case basis in my opinion
Live in an apartment with older light fixtures than your current one. Just replaced the bulbs for led bulbs. Easy and it works.
I agree about the direction of the industry. I've purchased a couple of LED fixtures and dread the day, that I know is coming, when one goes out because I didn't purchase an extra.
My go-to LED bulbs are the Feit Electric 60 watt bulbs available at Costco and elsewhere. You control them with an app on your smartphone where you can select the color temperature and even different colors (great for holidays). Plus they're dimmable and you can set schedules using the app. Feit Electric also makes outdoor timers, wall switches and receptacles that are all controllable using the app.
They are so cheap I bought twice as many as I needed (actually, the good price was only in that quantity.) They will probably be seriously obsolete before I get through all the spares.
We changed all of our 23 boob lights from circular florescent to Edison screw sockets for all the reasons you mentioned. Pre-LED we used CFLs, and over the past 15 years we have evolved to all LED with no more fixture changes.
We have updated all of the lights in the home and shop to LED that have. A 23 year life span and they are plastic but the best part in case of power outage they run for 4 hours and come with a portable light switch holder to hang anywhere U need lighting. Unbreakable and no heat so they won't burn you..
I like those levernuts, never seen them before, but I may get some to keep around the house. It sounds like the drawbacks of LED's are an industry issue and not a problem with LED's themselves. I prefer standardization most of the time.
Agree with you. We only install fixtures with replaceable bulbs. Preferably a19 base. We also usually buy extra fixtures for the reasons you mentions.
Good points, I have had lots of problems with the inverter driver. Lifetime was 1-3 years. I gave up and threw mine out and went back to standard base bulbs.
Yeah, that is still my preference as well.
I've always avoided integrated light or 'weird base' fixtures. This is next level for that and I'll be avoiding them, also.
Smart man 👍
Good idea including "weird bases" on your "No Go" list. Just had someone looking for a 25 Watt "large" (MR16?) Halogen with a GU10 base...
If it isn't an E26 or E12 people really should think hard if they really need the fixture.
I prefer old fixture but NEW A19 LED 60W equivalent-warm light for most .some are bright white a few are daylight .Replaced all the cfl with LED.
I use the soft white bulbs in most cases, for some I want the equivalent of 100w of brightness. The problem is these bulbs don't last long they run too hot and the components die early. The problem is the heat has no place to go in most LED bulbs. I recently bought some bulbs that have ventilation holes both above the LEDs and below them, that lets the heat escape and not bake the electronics.
I responded to your question earlier, and really like how you presented this subject in this video. I especially like the idea of buying one extra to replace a failed fixture, but agree, you need to store it in a cooler location to prevent heat aging.
Thanks for the wago in-line splice shout out! Too many people still don’t know about the wago 221 product line!
I already made the mistake of outfitting my new trailer home with all new fixtures with integrated LEDs. The whole thing made me nervous and still does. There are some advantages, but I dread the day I have to start replacing things.
These WAGO clips are awesome, grabbed them and I am using them in my lighting projects, thanks for recommending them!
You bet!
So far I have not had to replace a fixture and the LED bulbs are working nicely. My frustration comes from the many fixtures I have that use small base 25 watt bulbs and the impossibly of finding LED replacements.
I work as a merchandiser in a big box home improvement retailer. If a customer asks me about this choice, I point out any display units that are strobing, and there’s always a couple, and they catch on quick.
I live in a neighborhood where the developer choose to install solar LED streetlight 8 years ago (cost effective for them as opposed to normal electric lights and underground wiring). They are now starting to fail. As you say, we cannot find replacements in kind. And, we fear that any replacements we buy now will not be available when they fail. Thus, we either have to replace all 30 of them now or start down the path of have a mixture of fixtures going forward.
I also don't like integrated bulbs. My current go-to for most residential fixtures is the Edison base bulb: Cree Lighting Exceptional Series A19 Bulb, 2700K Dimmable LED Bulb, 60W + 815 Lumens, Soft White.
This is exactly what the fixture manufacturers want. Finally, planned obsolescence! There are some big bonuses coming for those execs in 10 years.
Yup! Once one LED out of 50 or 60 fails your entire fixture is dead. Sure you can sometimes pinpoint the failed LED cut it out but that will just cause the rest to draw more current and cause the rest to fail much sooner.
@@benkeysor7576 Unless of course you install fixtures where the LEDs are wired in parallel. Come to think of it I've never seen LED arrays that weren't wired in parallel because they have to be.
The control circuitry is another story.
@@JustaPilot1 All fixtures unless running from 5 volts are going to run some number of LEDs in series inside the fixture. For 120V LED bulbs that is often 36 LED diode junctions but could be a few more (up to ~52 depending on diode forward voltage) when rectified and smothed since 120v X 1.414 = ~170V you can buy packages with 1, 2, 3, 6, 9, and 12 LED junctions on one COB depending on the forward voltage available and have many cobs in series and parallel to get the desired amount of light output.
But the fixtures cost about the same as two or three decent A19/E26 LED bulbs, so it may be planned obsolescence, but it's not really costing more in the long run, and you get to change out your entire fixture style every decade. A decent number of them are also Alexa / Google compatible, so you can do things like program them on motion sensors so you save energy by turning off when you leave the room or give off different amounts of light at different times of day (like bright during the day and dimmer at night so that you're not blinded when you go to the kitchen for a late night snack).
@@JustaPilot1 no. Wrong. You REALLY don't want parallel LEDs. When an LED fails, it often fails short. This draws excess current, stresses the drive circuitry, generated heat, and robs the parallel LEDs of power.
You can see this in larger LEDs with several strings of LEDs in parallel.
One LED will fail, and that string will pull extra power and get brighter. Then the other LED strings will draw less power and dim. The chips in that one string will fail sooner as well.
There's also the problem of LEDs being a mostly a current driven device. Once you reach a certain voltage, an LED acts (to a first approximation) as though it will draw as much current as you're willing to give it.
That means if one LED isn't perfectly matched, it'll draw no current... Or it'll draw ALL the current.
The fix for this is separate resistors for each parallel element. The higher the value, the less the difference in current draw. Except the higher the resistance, the more inefficiency and therefor heat dissipated at a given current.
Better to have a single strand of LEDs in series with a single, current regulated power supply.
Integrated exterior lights have already been a problem for me when one of 5 failed. I would pick the easily replaced screw-in bulb every time. And at my age, screwing in a bulb is much easier than replacing an entire fixture.
What a second! Are you telling my “boob light” fixtures are out of style? Great video!
We just installed over $1,000 worth of integrated LED light fixtures in an addition to our business building so let's see how that goes. They supposedly have a 5 year warranty! I did not like it but it was the practical option for the meantime in the large new space. Then the outside lights had to have a built in emergency light feature.
As an electrical design engineer I cautioned my clients that LED would lead to throwaway light fixtures (luminaries) many years ago. We just set a standard for our condo association that exterior lights must be screw-in bulb type. No one is going to stock replacement parts as the technology changes so rapidly.
I tried those flat integrated lights and hated them immediately. They most shoot the light straight down and have too much glare. I went with a semi flush for the kitchen with 3 bulbs. It had a much more pleasing light but it wasn't bright enough with 3 60wt bulbs so I switched them to 3000k 100wt bulbs and they were perfect. I found the same glare issue with the install anywhere wafer style canless "recessed" lights. I decided to go with the baffle style.
I bought a house a couple of years ago that had a bunch of these integrated led’s. They have all died. It is so maddening to have to replace the fixture.
Totally agree…trying to find a traditional exterior light that DOESN’T have integrated leds and dusk to dawn photo eyes was EXTREMELY HARD
Good video. I hate the LED-integrated ceiling lights. Walk into any building that's swapped out old fixtures for the new, integrated models, and the color temperature is poorly set, and they cheapen the look of any space they inhabit. So yes, I favor choosing my own, A19-compatible, lovely light fixture, and select high-quality LED bulbs of the right color temperature (3k to 3.4k). I also make sure the CRI (color-rendering index) is 90 or better. Doing so, the fixture looks great, on or off.
Thanks for the feedback Eric 👍
I find your presentations well done and interesting . FYI it is possible to obtain flat, dimmable light emitting diode replacement lights, probably with some careful measurements. I just did a search and found a number of places that sell them. It would likely require some careful measurements to ensure one gets the correct replacement, but it seems do-able. Thanks for sharing.
Many of the LED bulbs say not suitable for totally enclosed fixtures--ie that dome fixture on the ceiling behind you. There are dome fixtures that are offset from the ceiling by about 1 cm and thus are vented.
I was going to say that the only ones I'm planning to use are the can light replacements, then I got to the end of your video and saw you reference them.
Thanks for the tip on buying an extra. Having one go bad has been my biggest concern.
I totally agree and won’t be using integrated light fixtures anytime soon. I switched my entire house to LED screw base lights bulbs in 2016, and have had a number of them burn out since then (over 20 bulbs). I buy EcoSmart LED bulbs from Home Depot. I can take my bad bulbs back to Home Depot without a package or receipt, and they always replace them at no charge. The advertised 10 year longevity appears to be a myth.
Guess I'll be changing the store I buy LED's from. I purchased the standard base LED bulbs by Sylvania at Menards. Seven year warranty. I wrote the date I installed them on the base of the bulb. Year and a few months later one of the two died. Emailed Sylvania and never heard back. Couldn't find a number for them either. A few weeks later the second bulb stopped working. And Menards would not honor the warranty either. Thanks for the heads up.
Interestingly, the integrated units I bought a couple years ago for about $8 apiece have all given great service, while the Ecosmart bulbs in my over-sink lighting lose one out of the three every few months. On the other hand, I can reach them with a step stool so it's no big deal. the redundancy of three lamps for the sink is also useful.
Every light in my house is 5000k. I also have a mixture of fixtures with integrated LEDS and fixtures with A19 bases. My wife really likes the integrated LED fixtures.
outdoor lights 2200k, living rooms, bedrooms 2700k. bathrooms and kitchens 3000k-3500k. basements, garages and other workspaces 4100k-5000k. Always replaceable bulbs or plug in fixtures,
Yep, we go with something around 60. that is around 2500. The savings in electricity has been amazing.
Great information. Installed that kind of light fixture and did not last. I wish I had seen your video
I like color changing leds for living spaces. Some are smart (any color red blue daylight, soft white, et cetera) some are click button (different whites).
100% agree. I have no plans to buy integrated fixtures. I have one in a fan that came with the house, and the light doesn’t suit the room at all. To change it, I’ll need to change the whole fan. It’s on the list, but such a waste.
I have same dilemma on outdoor lighting. On my house I have two fixtures on either side of garage, one by front door, as well as a post lamp in yard! It's almost impossible to find things that match and thus far it's easy to change a bulb that goes out. If these were integrated led fixtures, it's highly unlikely I'll find something that matches, thus going through the expense of replacing several fixtures at one time.
Though your circuit is off, it’s good practice to connect ground > neutral > line
Good point, thanks for the addition.
...and work all circuits (as much as possible) as if they are hot. With Lock Out Tag Out it is unnecessary, but if somebody could wonder why the breaker is off and make it live... well. (Retired from 34 years field support with an electric utility.)
i use bright white for task lighting, like the kitchen. warm white in the socializing areas like the family room
I was worried about the integrated light on my new ceiling fan as well. Sure enough after two years the white led array went out. So when you cycled through the color choices nothing changed. Luckily most of the fan light kits are a separate piece. A short conversation with the seller on Amazon and they sent out for free, a new array and was an easy swap out.
3000K 60w equiv for me
I’ve replaced all of my ceiling fixtures with Integrated LEDs. Those I’ve bought at big box stores are pretty crappy, but Ferguson sells some higher quality / higher priced ones that seem really well made in comparison, and with better size choices. We’ll see how long they last, but for now they’re working+looking great after 2 years.
Wow! Haven’t seen those In-Line splice wagos. Learned something new from you again. Thanks, Scott!
I am installing them in my kitchen as a substitute for recessed can lighting. They allow me to ignore the location of the ceiling joists. Admittedly I will keep a few spares and hope they have a good lifespan. I also have LED light-strips under the kitchen cabinets and they are similarly un-serviceable. However in both cases these are meant as supplemental lighting and not the primary lighting for the room.
First off, I am a subscriber and watch all your videos. Overall, you have provided some great tips, perspectives and suggestions for home renovation DIY. With that said though, I cannot agree or disagree with your assessment of the LED market. On one hand, having LED are definitely an energy saver over time, and I say that because the house I live in was chock full of incandescent and fluorescent bulbs that were exchanged for LED. Couple that with the fact that three areas of my home have 80's style track lighting, (I'll never understand the appeal). I just replaced one set of track lighting in the kitchen to a flat-panel LED light. Bought from my local HD, this $100 panel was relatively easy to install and the light from it is much cleaner and no longer feels like I'm on stage. Prior to install, I removed the LED bulbs I placed in the track lighting, after moving in and I noticed just how hot the LED bulb bases were. To me, that seemed odd, but considering the step down of voltage, I suppose that's common, unless it has to do with the brand of LED bulb. The panel I bought is said to last 75,000 hours, which seems like a great reason to switch over, but honestly, if it has the longevity and if something were to happen to it, replacing it is no skin off my nose, because when the time comes, who knows what better technologies will be available at that time. This panel has a feature to change the color temp, which is a plus for a kitchen, the profile is very low (slightly less than an inch) and the mount is solid with a simple hookup. Btw, Waggos are not sold retail where I live, which I find odd (perhaps they are not rated to be as safe as the cheaper, tried and true wirenuts?) Lastly, I don't think it's necessary to inject an fear of buying LED lighting with the possibility of not having the same style 10 years from now. People's tastes change, often due to technology shifts or just overall trending styles. I think the takeaway is that our homes are an investment and something as innocuous as lighting style and function is something that will change regardless (ex. going from incandescent to LED). It should also be noted that your mileage may vary as far as longevity of lighting, primarily due to lighting usage, just like the older incandescents.
Hey J, thanks for all the support and appreciate the detailed feedback. I am a bit skewed with some early failures on integrated LED light fixtures and hopefully my experience is not representative of the average homeowner. Also, having a handful of rentals definitely makes me a bit cautious switching over.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs I totally understand now, your aversion to integrated LED fixtures, due to your rentals. You can never predict what the tenant may do to the property or how they will treat it. I should note that the fixture I recently installed is made for wet environments, which I figured would do a tad bit better in the kitchen (i.e. steam and any other vapor related things). No one really knows whether or not something they buy WILL last as long as advertised, sometimes I ponder that in itself that it may be a marketing tactic, but as I said before, it's all about the investment, at least for the common homeowner. As a side note, and this is not indicative to your channel or how you run it, but I have realized lately that many DIY channels I have watched or even currently subscribe to, have a bit of that "do this not that" attitude, varying every so often that I find I never get good answers to things or find myself even more confused or undecided than before. We'll all have our opinions and experiences, good or bad but in the end, you take it with a grain of salt, I suppose.
That 60 is perfect for me. Thats about all I use.
My Kelvin preference they don't make in LED that I can easily find, but in CFL they rocked. 3500K.
Interesting.....I'm sticking with traditional bulb fixtures...."gives me 'easier', more choice"....
Thanks for info....
Good choice!
I always go with a tunable smart bulb. Being able to use HomeAssistant to automatically adjust color temperature based on the angle of the sun is the best of all worlds.
Fancy 😁, thanks for the feedback!
I prefer the 2700 K 60w which I find to be the closest hue to an incandescent, but the difference between 2700 and 3000 K is negligible. I was an early adopter of LED and my biggest problem has been replacing bulbs that fail. We have two large rooms, each with four large can lights, and one area with two. Often years later the color (temp) of a bulb with identical specifications does not match the working bulbs. If you are picky like me that leads to replacing all four. I eventually use the older bulbs but it adds cost. However, I purchased four BR40 bulbs for my kitchen back in 2015 for $25 each, now a set of four equivalent bulbs can be purchased for just $25 so the prices have plummeted. Three of the four bulbs purchased in 2015 are still working fine so the life of the LED does far exceed the old incandescents, especially in can lights.
I refuse to use integrated fixtures in my house anymore. After installing four integrated LED dawn-to-dusk fixtures around my barn in early 2020, in 2021 I had one burn out. What was once a simple matter of climbing a ladder and changing the bulb, now turned into a bit of an ordeal of having to climb a ladder with a cordless drill, wire nuts, mounting screws, and a new fixture. Not fun when the fixture is mounted to the gable, and 18 to 20 feet from ground level.
Many new homes use can type fixtures, doing a replace is very easy... you should do a show on this type and how easy they ae to replace.
For the recessed lights? Most of the one I see are "Canless" which are super easy assuming you have some replacements 🤞
I changed all four of our fixtures of that type last year. The ones I bought are clearly not premium; they came out to $8 per unit in bulk. They are the type that have a light bulb type screw connector and the mounting spring wires to connect and mount to the existing cans after removing the screw-in bulbs. By the time my spares are used up there will be yet another New Kid in Town to replace my 2020ish units. This is not going to come to a halt in my lifetime.
I have a couple of the integrated fixtures in my house just because I needed something and they were so cheap at Costco. I almost couldn’t buy a couple led bulbs for the price. If they fail, I’ll swap them out with something else.
Yeah, I think you really get bit when you have 15 of the same in your house and then they start dropping out 🤦♂️
@@EverydayHomeRepairs It must be a personal thing but I don't get that all the fixtures have to match. My wife does not a problem having different fixtures in any room and I don't really care.
@@dwightl5863
This is good for your personal living situation, but should you require the services of an estate agent, you should get ahead and match at least the colour temperature and possibly same fixtures per room. Mixed colour temperatures trigger too many people!
No! Keep serviceable fixtures!!!
Plus, I like to be a control freak on color & brightness of each fixture, and may want to change those on a whim.
I might do those little slim pancakes in closets, or in showers (code permitting), but that's about it.
Yeah they have used but in general I align with your thoughts 💯
I really, really wish 4000K was common!!
It's the perfect balance between yellow and bright white.
I like using wago's because if you know any bit about electricity you can actually use them to work on live circuits if you are being careful enough.
One big problem with integrated fixtures is some manufacturers over drive the LED’s to get the most output. In that case they fail quicker, which is the driver circuit not the led’s. Yeah they will say 10 years but I’ve seen them fail in 2-3 years and good luck
getting them replaced.
In most of my existing fixtures I just use led bulbs. In my kitchen I use the low profile circular (cloud type) fluorescents. They last and have higher lumens.
I agree with you 100%! I love the thin profile, but not having the average homeowner be able to replace burned out light isn't practical. I do all my own electrical and I don't feel like swapping an entire fixture just because it burned out. Got my gf some ceiling fans, and I avoided these integrated fixtures...could you imagine having to replace the whole fan because the light is out?! They say these fixtures last 10 years... No way!
Don't store your fixtures in a hot attic. The chemical capacitors will dry out faster. It's usually the capacitors at all cause a circuit to go bad. If you're handy with a soldering gun you can even replace the capacitors on the circuit board depending on the design
Is this what typically goes bad on an LED fixture?
When choosing the LED round panel lights that you refer to at the end, make sure you go with a standard size like 3, 4, or 6 inch. When we redid our master bath 16 years ago the can lights we were sold by the fancy lighting store are a custom size. If I want to switch them to the LED panels it means cutting a bigger hole in the ceiling or using a goof ring. That's why I haven't replaced those ones yet🙂. I like the panel lights because they make the room feel taller without a light fixture hanging down.
Bulbs are absolutely my go to choice simply because there are many different ones to choose from and will always be an inexpensive replacement when the bulbs fail--and they do. Where wafer-style lights were needed in my kitchen, I used fixtures that utilize a step-down transformer behind the lamp assembly so the lamp itself receives only the low power needed and the fixture runs cool.
You bet!
Almost 12 years ago I updated all the light fixtures in our house, but at the time LED bulbs were still expensive. I made sure even then to get A19 base fixtures, even though all kinds of odd bulb connector types were being introduced at the time. It has been one of the best decisions I've made in terms of home improvements. For the past 5 to 6 years all the bulbs in the house are A19 LED bulbs and many are still the original bulbs I put in 6 years ago. (A few failures due to a bad batch during manufacturing it seems). But it was a lot less stressful to replace those bulbs rather than the whole fixture.
The previous owners of my house put in some integrated led's... I will not be adding more, but I also don't see a need to get rid of them until they break.
I like the led fixtures but I haven’t had issues with them going out yet I’m my home or any of my customers. I’m sure once that happens I may not like them anymore. You make a very valid point, though. It’s either going to drive up business for electricians or it will drive people into the diy space to learn how to replace their own fixtures.
Yeah, I like the Idea as well but especially for my rentals it is a pretty big pain when they fail. Will be interesting to see which direction the industry goes in the coming years.
I have them in the bathroom. Nice lights. Will put a few more. No problems
I use the 2700K, they give the 'air' of the older bulbs. Nothing more than 3500K since I have a sensitivity to higher Blue light content. I stick with serviceable fixtures, except over cabinets or similar applications.
When we repainted the interior (okay... it is still in progress) I bought some bluer bulbs to go with the blue-gray wall paint. The 2700Ks were better because they didn't cause glare off the walls. Now I have to go back to listening to my wife.
I've been pretty happy with the integrated LED fixtures that I've installed in my house. They're nice and thin and look very clean. None of them has burned out yet in the last few years. What I don't like about the Edison base bulbs is that they only emit light from a hemisphere; much of the bulb is an opaque white base. This makes them look bad in a lot of fixtures.
Recently, I replaced the 12V 35W MR-16 bulbs in my recessed ceiling fixtures. There were 72 of them (!). I used 35-watt equivalent LED's, which drew 4 watts each, saving a couple of kilowatts of draw. The light quality is very similar to the incandescent bulbs.
My front room has a 40W LED dome, it's wifi/bluetooth controlable and will do anything between 2700-5500k light at the touch of a slider on a phone/tablet (or voice). It's so bright that for general use I have it turned down to 1% on the slider as 100% is uncomfortable. I also use a lot of smart bulbs around the house that can be tuned to the white temperature I want in each location. My feelings are that if they only last 5 years that isn't really a problem because the light technology is moving so fast I would probably want to replace them by then anyways.
I stick with standard bulb fixtures. I hate the idea of putting in a disposable light fixture.
We have put in disposable bulbs for ages; it is hardly any different.
I can screw in a lightbulb without getting out any tools or turning off the power and I keep extra bulbs in the closet. Changing out a fixture might be a simple project, but it's still a project.
I do have an integrated LED fan as well. Originally, I thought the light brightness was a bit weak and this light comes with a remote. I used the remote light on/off for the light while it was on and kept it press and walla! I had found the dimmer feature. I’m much happier now! Thanks for the info and your take on the LED upgrades. 👍🏽
My biggest concern with LEDs is the cheap drivers that are used to drive them. In most cases, when the LED dies, it is not the LED diodes themselves, but the cheap driver being used to drive them. Drives me nuts!
Right on. If the LED isn't abused by transients or excessive dissipated power, they will last 20+ years. The components that pulsewidth modulate the LED array can have any number of issues, or could be a poor design.
Your observations are spot on Scott - thank you. Two replies. First, I lived in a townhouse for decades - started with incandescent bulbs and to save money (or though *WE* thought) I moved to CFLs. Maybe the touted length of time they offered were good value for the cost, but within 6mths or so they would have that slowness to get to full brightness. Coupled with a hazmat scenario if they break (mercury) I was happy to replace them with the "lasts up to 22 years - based on 3hr per day usage" scammy LED bulbs. (My weapon of choice is typically a 3000K and then either the 60W or 100W replacement variety based on room type). Though nothing scientific, I am left with a bad taste with these - they do not live up to the length of time they tout (bad value like the CFLs). I recently moved into a new home and lo and behold I was hit with many LED style lights - PAR16s, GU10s, G9s and the wretched SLIM 4" pot lights (more on that next reply). Also I had about 4 integrated LED fixtures - already one is dead - it would not go on, then another day it would. I immediately replaced with the old style lamp holder and screwed in a serviceable LED bulb hanging off a motion dongle. My dilemma now is a questionable outdoor motion light. Scouring AMZN I see the same two options --- 80% are lovely looking but non-serviceable integrated LEDs. Other than a lantern style, the only other option with a serviceable bulb is the same exact ugly Heath Zenith junk - a similar model to what I installed at the TH 20yr back and what currently hangs. Knowing what I know and yes you know the same thing - I can buy a beautiful bright outdoor sensor - but it won't last and I will be again up that ladder clocking time in replacing it with another unit. It would be one thing if these units used a UNIQUE LED bulb type you could just buy to replace - screw or push in - but they don't. They will fail and they won't last anything near the touted time. IMO 22 years probably more like "Death By Decimal" - 2 -5 yrs tops.
My preferred bulb? I was running some tunable white smart bulbs but noticed that I tended to stick on the warmer end, so I picked up some Philips Ultra Definition bulbs (93 CRI) in the dimmable warm glow model and added the 5000k 100W ones in my garage. I thought I would not like the warm glow functionality so I bought only 1 to test, but I liked the way that it dimmed way more than bulbs that stayed at the same colour temperature. The bulbs are fantastic, they dim really low, do not flicker (to my eyes) and they look really natural when they dim. I will admit that I like the A19 version better than the GU10 though.
It took me so long to find replacement non-integrated fixtures to replace some LED light bars (those ones that look like office/fluorescent lights). I was looking for months for ones that I really liked since so many fixtures are integrated LED now. Everyone I know was trying to push my into the integrated ones but I hate the inflexibility of them. Even with a dimmer that's made for LEDs, and a dimmable light, you might not have the performance you want (linearity, flickering, minimum brightness) but with an integrated fixture you are now stuck. Bulbs are not only an easy change, but an easy test (you can buy 1 bulb to see if you even like them before investing more time and money).
I just got this house and there were some integrated LED fixtures installed (6 or 7 of them). I want to install some dimmers because when it is late at night I don't like to run the lights at full brightness, but these models that they chose are not dimmable so now I essentially have to trash a whole light fixture when I would have just changed a bulb out of an old fixture.
You make some very good points. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You bet!
I fully agree with you on the show stopper issue of non-serviceability. It gets even worse with some other devices, such as e.g., expensive ceiling fans. Thank for this video.
For what it's worth, one difference between screw in bulbs & integrated fixtures is the implementation of the power conversion circuitry. One factoid about electronics is that the life of the components are strongly affected by temperature... lower is better. In the integrated fixture, the power converter can be spread out so that the power density is lower, therefore the temperature of the hot components can be lower. Meanwhile, in the screw in bulb, there isn't a whole lot of volume to put the circuitry in so the components are crammed into a small base with not a lot of good ways to get rid of heat. Thus the temperature of the hot components tends to be higher & the reliability suffers.
If you want to geek out, look into electronic reliability and operating temperatures.
On a personal basis, I have a LOT of LED based lighting. The observed failure rate for screw in bulbs vastly exceeds that of the integrated fixtures, BUT the repair for the integrated fixture is far more inconvenient. I strongly agree with your suggestion to buy spares at the time you are installing the fixtures as many of those fixtures aren't available in the market for very long and even those that do stick around have a tendency to look & act subtly different as the design & manufacturing processes improve/change.
This seriously sounds like lighting companies going the route of planned obsolescence. I don't care if I sound like an old man, but I shouldn't have to replace entire fixtures because the LEDs start to fail.
Its long term control, so that instead of spending on a simple replacement bulb, you have to then get someone to replace the whole unit - so labour and unit costs is going to be much more expensive if you can even locate exactly what you need. I will stick to standard LED bulb's. Sadly in the UK getting new bayonet fittings is become extremely difficult because of some crazy reason they are all going over to screw in bulbs !