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same. morbius was kinda enjoyable if u view it as just a bad movie. this is just really bad. the biggest nail in the coffin for me is the majority of the villain’s dialogue being horribly ADR afterwords
Honestly to me this movie is better than Morbius because the actors in this movie, for the most part, cared. Unlike in Morbius where only Matt Smith was having a fun time.
@@alexmartin3143 Oh, it's not that I'm so bothered by it, per se, it's just that it became eye-rolling at some point. It's like the writer or director was trying to work some aggression against a past failed marriage partner or something. Just not quite sure how no one making the movie saw that he strangled women that many times.
I’m of the belief that it has to be canon to at least one timeline (most likely the SUMC) simply because Sony as a studio has been OBSESSED with creating their shared universe, dubious connections or otherwise. It doesn’t make sense to me that they’d put it in another different universe when they’ve been jingling the keys for some sort of team-up/crossover etc. for so long
Maybe they want to make a multiverse crossover, so they want multiple universes so they can colide them or something. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but it could be their idea, at least I think it was very likely (even if they are changing course now) considering the vulture Morbius scene (AAAAAAAAA)
Yeah, I agree with you...it sure feels like it's meant to be connected somewhere and ig the Venom movies are the place to do it. Perhaps we'll learn more when Kraven and Venom 3 arrive? Or perhaps @simcity4111 is correct that it is a different universe but will result in a big spidergeddon crossover down the road.
@ColeRowe404 One of the writers said she only set it in 2003 literally just to use Britney Spears' Toxic as a radio song. Tom Holland's Spider-Man would be born in 2001 and Marissa Tomei wouldn't be the right age to be Adam Scott's wife in this movie. You're overthinking it and putting more thought into this than the actual movie makers did.
@jesusramirezromo2037 They could at least try😢 I mean, the rights to use one of the most popular superheros and his villans, they could explore his villans in solo movies! But they really seem to be scraping the barrel with these movies.
@@jesusramirezromo2037they make Spider-Man movie to not lose the rights (I think it’s every 5 years), but these spin offs they make for cheap, so they don’t even care if they suck. It’s more damaging to their competitor’s brand than it hurts Sony. They made this movie for 80$ million and it’s already made 50$ million in one weekend. It’ll probably just barely break even in the theaters and then they’ll sell it to Netflix or Disney on streaming, or some TV channel. Either way they’ll make a little bit of money on this, which is better for them than no money. I think Sony is realizing the morbid curiosity of audiences for a bad movie is more lucrative than spending 150$ million and trying to make a good movie. So they cheap out and if it sucks, it sucks, cuz they’ll make money either way.
The South American Spider-Man tells Cassie that Ezekiel is cursed because of his crimes, and stealing the spider. The visions that he was receiving were false visions meant to direct him toward the people who would defeat him.
Oh! Okay, that helps. I'll be honest, I didn't pick that part up, but at least it explains one of my biggest gripes with the movie. Thanks so much! Now if we can just figure out the invisibility thing...that really confused me.
The timeline of this movie makes no sense; they originally set it in the 1990's to make the baby be Andrew Garfield's Peter. Then they decided to set it in 2003, despite the fact that Tom Holland's Peter was born in 2001, and this isn't the MCU. Now they've set up an entirely new Peter that will never get cast so as to not intrude on the MCU's Spider-Man, meaning none of these movies are going anywhere.
Well said...that's how I felt about the timeline, too. I mean, ig it could tie into the Venom verse and we'll see a brand new Spider-Man appear in Venom 3? It's all just so baffling, tbh.
They could’ve made it into one Spiderman universe. Where the original Tobey McGuire Peter Parker was the original Spiderman and then Andrew becomes the second and Tom the third. See that’s a spider verse worth the making
They will cast a new actor for Peter Parker this year and they will debut in the post-credits scene of Kraven the Hunter & he will have a big role during Venom 3.
I need a deep dive on the production of this movie so bad. The amount of ADR used on Ezekial plus the Parkers make me think the original plot for this movie had Madame Web and the spider-women trying to protect Mary and Ben from being targeted by Ezekial, but that shifted when they couldn’t get the timeline right/weren’t allowed to use MCU Peter Parker. Also makes me wonder if the Spider People of Peru and the Web of Life and Destiny were in the cards or if Sony was just slinging stuff at the wall to see what stuck, lol Also, I just wanted to point out since I haven’t seen anyone else mention it, but movie Ezekial totally jacked Kaine’s look and precognitive powers. Even his more antagonistic role wasn’t really in character for Ezekial.
Yeah, I'd pay good money to know how many changes were made to this story. It feels like there was a decent story in there somewhere, but what we got was such a mess. And good point about them basically combining Ezekiel and Kaine!
Dude I love your work, I try and watch everything when I have time….. I just saw MW yesterday, and it’s been nearly 24 hours of torture thinking about this movie. I hope you’re doing well my man, I will watch this when I’m not mentally drained by this movie. Keep up the great work!
Wow. I can tell u out all the reviews I've watched this one by far is excellently researched, very well edited, and has very detailed bookmarks! I can tell you worked hard at this! Loved the video! (And I haven't seen madame web OR morbius so I have no answer yet. Lol.)
Thanks! Yeah, I tried my best. It wasn't a very good movie, although it had some enjoyable moments. So I wanted to try to give it a fair shake with the breakdown. Will be interesting to see what they do with the characters going forward. I did like the Spiderwomen, so maybe they reappear at some point.
With the amount of women Ezekiel strangles in this movie I'm surprised they didn't make a poster for the film with him strangling Madame Webb. Like when FOX made that really weird and uncomfortable poster for X-Men: Apocalypse with Apocalypse strangling Mystique. Anyways, great video!
Good analogy to the X-Men: Apocalypse poster. Yeah, it was really weird to see him continuing to strangle women over and over. Honestly, there was the potential for a good movie in there somewhere, but Sony really fumbled the ball. Sigh.
This will be interesting to watch. But I need sleep first. Goodnight and I shall see you tomorrow. Congrats to 15.000 btw, you deserve it for all your hard work
Oh wow...I didn't realized that was unused footage from Spider-Man 2 in that final shot. Craziness. Yes, I 100% agree that Sony should give the rights back to Marvel. Please!
Actually I am 95% sure that it was a used scene The guy who pointed it out on twitter said that he's pretty sure that "it is the building from the alleyway scene from Spider-Man 2 when Tobey runs pissed off after seeing MJ with Jameson’s son" Which makes it even worse ngl @@AbitofEverything4U
I just want to quickly point out something about Julia (Sydney Sweeney). In the movie, her last name is still Cornwall. In the comics, she changes it to Carpenter after being married.
I enjoyed my time with Madame Web. The bad writing was tolerable. The human vs superpowered enemy was a good way to make things seem tense and important. And to highlight how much you can do with precog.
I agree, most of the battles between Madame Web and Ezekiel were pretty cool and very suspenseful. I loved the train, the diner and the chase in the ambulance. ig for me the final scene in the warehouse was abit much, as I don't quite see how a precog could know how to dodge all those randomly shooting dangerous fireworks, so it felt more like sheer luck than skill. But I agree, the overall premise of the movie was good and if only the writing had been better, it could have succeeded. Sigh.
I thought the movie was meh but I think the best thing this movie did was introducing spider people into the Sony universe. Though I feel like the movie could have been so much more, with the visions Cassie have I feel like the movie could’ve been like final destination with spider people and I think that could’ve been cool
Excellent comments! Yeah, I was really hoping for a Final Destination vibe and it had elements of it, but didn't really succeed. I agree, I do think the final result of getting 3 spider women and Madame Web out of the movie is worth something, but I just think it could have been so much more. Not the worst Sony have given us, though. Morbius was even worse, imo.
you first day viewer folks are quite sad honestly... just wait 3 days to see if a movie bombs before spending ur money supporting garbage like this. remember: SPEAK WITH UR WALLET NOT UR TH-cam ACCOUNT
@@kiromi790 Yup, smart move to wait a day or two before going to a movie to see how the critics respond to it. Granted, critics aren't always right, but you can get a general feel for how a movie will do in that first day or two.
I’ve just realized something, the whole idea of the villain of the movie is beating in time the evil Spider-Man movies that would have been made when he went to public domain…
Thank you for watching Madame Web so that I don't have to! I was actually somewhat curious about this movie, until all the regular TH-cam channels that I watch downright proclaimed how horrible it was, so I decided to watch your video instead of the movie itself. Turns out this video explained everything I was curious to know, namely the main plot points and what sort of easter eggs Sony put in it to connect it to... whatever Spider-thing they're trying to connect it to. (I actually went and saw Morbius in the theater just for that reason, when in retrospect, a spoiler/analysis video similar to this would've sufficed.)
Great feedback...yeah, my goal was indeed to share enough info to allow someone to learn the overall story and connections to the Sony universe and then to decide if it was worth watching the movie on their own. Definitely not as bad of a movie as the critics make it out to be, but also not a great movie in any regard. It had its moments, but was mostly forgettable in the end. Bummer...I think a good movie was in there somewhere, but it was poorly executed in the end.
I watched the movie on the 14th and I had some questions, why did Ezekiel want the spider in the first place? He wasn't sick or anything, I assume that he got bitten, got powers and then started seeing the vision of his death so it wasn't after he got the spider that he started his hunt for the girls so why did he want the spider at the beginning of the movie? Just to get powers? I also noticed that during the diner scene, Britney Spears song starts to play when Cassie arrives at the woods with the taxi after she has her vision, then she drives to the diner and arrives after Ezekiel gets there and runs him over with the song still playing, but before she has the vision, she arrived at the woods, walked half a mile to the diner, had time to talk to the girls and then Ezekiel showed up while the song was still playing, so how was the song still playing if she walked to the diner the first time? Was it faster to walk rather than to drive to the diner or did the writers not think that through? Also, can everyone just get bitten by the spider and get powers? Cause it sure looks like it since the girls all got different powers just like that. Finally, I heard that the director said that this movie is not set in the Sony Universe with Venom and Morbius but in a brand new universe so what do you think about that? Love the videos!!
Maybe Sony caught wind of the MCU's plans for wanting to introduce their new Fantastic Four in a different universe and wanted to beat them to the punch?
Love your commentary! Yeah, for me the single biggest issue of the movie was the story didn't explain any of the bigger questions like why Ezekiel wanted the spider and why the girls killed him and why everyone seemed to get powers from the spider and how was he able to be invisible and so on. Ugh. And your point about Toxic is hilarious. Maybe that diner loved the song so much they had it on repeat? lol!
As someone who had zero expectations coming in to it, I thought it was a fun and at times suspenseful and emotional movie. I especially loved the train scene and the climax with the ending. I believe the strangling was due to the poison in his hands so that would be the fastest way to get the poison in their veins? To me it was just as fun and visually interesting as doctor strange. The invisible thing is probably another power he has but since Cassie has similar powers she can sense him.
Yup, very fair review of the movie. I do agree that it was fun, suspenseful and emotional and when it was working, it was actually pretty good. I think my biggest gripe with the movie is just that I would have rather seen the three spiderwomen more at some point. But I didn't think it was as bad as the RT score indicated. And that's a good point about him putting the toxin in their necks. If they had explained that in the movie, it might have made it go over over better, tbh. As for the invisible thing, I really wish they had explained it. I truly was confused by it. But yeah, in the end, not a terrible movie and I do think it was better than Morbius.
I consider myself very non strict when it comes to movies, especially Marvel-based BUT this one was straight-up bad (only enjoyable moments for me were those you hated - Uncle Ben jokes 😂). I enjoyed Love and Thunder, MoM and loved The Marvels but not this one at all (I'm comparing them because they're considered "flops", different studios ik). For me Morbius wasn't even that awful. Speaking of which: 28:42 REMEMBER THEY FIXED IT IN ATSV! SONY REPENTED OF THIS SIN AND I WILL BE DEFENDING THEM IN THIS FIELD FOREVER!!! (maybe they'll fix this one somehow but idk if it's possible this time 😢)
LOL! Yeah, the Uncle Ben jokes were funny...maybe groanworthy at the same time, but they were funny. And I should give Sony credit for fixing that Morbius scene in ATSV. They won some points for that. They still lose points for trying to get us to buy into that post-credit scene in the first place, but yeah, they have repented...very fair point. Man, what were they thinking with this story. Ugh!
When i left my Theatre after watching this Movie, i had a dozen Ideas in my Head on how to improve it in the single Hour it took me to get back Home. The one that i believe to be the best to today is, that they should have gotten harder on the Web of Life and Destiny, and bring either the Great Weaver, or the Master Weaver in as a "Mentor" for Cassandra. The Web would then also connect them to the Spiderverse Movies, and of course the weavers are i believe the Origin of a certain Colourscheme, explaining THAT choice for the Spidertribe
Yeah, there were so many ways it could have been a better movie. I just don't get the choices that were made. Sony has proven time and again that they can mess about anything up at this point, as there was alot of potential wasted. Sigh.
Saw it Sunday night, I wasn’t totally disappointed. Had some cool shots / scenes, but my biggest issue was only seeing the spider women in costume for a total of 5 mins or less. And also no post credit? Ya know to advertise the three additional movies that are suppose to come out this year. Kraven, Venom, Beyond the Spiderverse !
I agree, there were some really fun scenes in the movie. The train fight, diner fight and ambulance chase scenes were good. And some of the jokes were pretty funny. So I definitely didn't hate the movie. It just seemed like it could have been so much better. And I couldn't believe how heavily they promoted the spider women in costume and then tricked us. Ooof. Hoping for the best for Kraven, Venom, and BTSV!
Well Dakota herself said in an interview that "you don't have to know anything about anything to watch the movie" so trying to make sense of it is pointless. 🤭🤭
The one problem I have with the June tiemframe is that in most universes, as far as I know, is that Peter Parker is usually born on August 10. So the only thing I got for Matti being in school is maybe the movie happens in the span of the entire summer or Matti was in summer school, which to be fair does kinda fit her character
lol! Yeah, I suspect she's pretty unhappy with how that movie ended up. Imagine still having contractual obligations requiring you to have to promote that movie. Ugh!
Yeah, there was so much wasted potential in this movie. Elements of it were fun to watch, but overall it was poorly written and left me scratching my head as I left the theatre. Sigh.
Did you notice that on the lady's newspaper on the train, the headline says 'Space shuttle disaster'. Is that referring to the beginning of Venom? I get that the timelines don't match up but it seems like too much of a coincidence.
Yeah, I wondered if that might somehow tie into the venom storyline. Perhaps this is an earlier crash that somehow ties into the space program we see in the Venom movie? So hard to know with Sony. Sigh.
I just want to point out that the pool Cassandra is birthed out of is very similar to the pool at the beginning of Echo, which is very similar to the pool in the Kahori episode of What If...?
Yeah, it was kinda funny in a way...I just felt sorry for poor Ben having his death be the butt of a few jokes. The second joke was definitely meaner than the first, so you are right...if they hadn't done the second one, then the first one might have aged better for me. Anyway, excellent feedback. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Tbh, I didn’t dislike the movie per se. I had a lot of fun watching it, loved the terrible line delivery and stuff. I was surprised how often Cassie joked about Ben's future death tho
I agree...there were many scenes that I enjoyed and I truly think there was the backbone of a really good movie in there somewhere. It's not terrible...but it could have been so much more if they had taken the time to make the story more coherent. Will be interesting to see what they do with the characters from here. I'd be down with seeing the Spiderwomen return in the future.
Ooooof! ofc, some of the issue was the studio interference that made them re-write so much of it. But still, I'm surprised that creators of Madame Web are able to find work.
My guess is that they renegotiated the contract with Marvel after Spiderman No Way Home, and Sony cant use Live action Peter Parker in their own movies but they will get a larger cut of the Spider Man movies made by marvel. Its the only explanation that they cant just say the name Peter Parker and the ADR lines, I think that motivation was reworked from killing four spider people, into killing only three spider women.
Yeah, I thought that was a really odd choice. And several places on the internet even list her as Julia Carpenter, so I just gave up and used that instead, but I don't get the Cornwall decision at all.
Even knowing why Cassie's mom is doing what she's doing in the opening, it still only plays as Cassie's mom losing sight of the point of why she was after the spider if being held at gunpoint is less important. A pregant woman worrying about the future of a baby instead of the immediate present doesn't look any better than not knowing why she was looking for the spider to begin with. The movie played like the script was written in 2003, not just that that's when the in-universe takes place. Makes me wonder if that was the case and it's been sitting on the shelf for twenty years. Either way, I'm not surprised by the movie we got so much as dispointed at the fact that it could have been good if it didn't play like an early 2000's superhero film. I could be wrong, but I saw the villain costume as everyone could see it, but the one time they reference the line of no one could it's because he killed those guys and then no other times does it really matter if someone outside the core group does see it or not.
Excellent feedback. You're right, there really is no reason for Cassie's mom to provoke Ezekiel and end up getting shot. Such bad writing. I agree, it's like it was literally written in 2003. Ugh!
It is located in the Sony Spider-Man Universe, it will connect with Venom 3, who looks for Spider-Man when he arrives in his universe and realizes that he is different and without powers.
Interesting theory...I agree, it seems the only timeline that it can connect to is the Venom-verse. Will be interesting to see what happens in Venom 3.
Regarding the timeline (if it was always supposed to be 2003), there are things in the movie that make me doubt it a lot. Like Ezekiel Sims’ age doesn’t seem to make sense for 2003. He would have to be far beyond 50 years old in 2003 if that was the intent. Or the music in the background through most of the movie is 90s (4 Non Blondes, Cranberries, etc) except for that Toxic needledrop. It seemed like Toxic was a post-production decision as the girls dance doesn’t seem to line up to the song super well, plus there’s the *very* badly delivered DJ line about it. It felt like there were two scripts here: - one for it to be in the 90s and centered on Web saving Mary Parker who is giving birth to Andrew Garfield’s Peter (yes, Terminator plot - but it lines up also with how they characterize Richard Parker in the Garfield movies, and maybe this is why so much of Sims’ dialogue is ADR?) - one for it to be in the 00s and centered on Web saving the three girls (nearly all the 00s references happen when the girls are on-screen)
Excellent feedback. Yeah, that does indeed seem to explain the overall weirdness and inconsistency of the movie. Man, I'd pay good money to know the full backstory behind all of this. Craziness!
They’re saying Peter Parker was born in 2003. If you remember in Avengers Infinity War, he was blipped in 2018 for five years so technically he’s still a teenager. Which means this must be Tom Holland’s Spider-Man!
@joeyglusky4774 Tom Holland's Spider-Man was born in 2001 and was 15 in Civil War. He'd have been 17 in Infinity War and technically 22 (physically 17) in the final act of Endgame. This isn't Holland's Spider-Man or anyone else's. The writers didn't give enough of a damn to actually set it in the correct year.
well idk why everyone is complaining. clearly this is gonna be oscar nominated next year. outstanding, script, action scenes, and acting, this move has it all. one of the best superhero movies ive seen in a long long time.😉
Everyone else saw the spider suit. They saw him at the end when he was gonna blow up the car. The only reason no one saw him in the subway was because he was hiding in the dark. Wasnt super well established so I understand the confusion
the only way i see them justifying it being toms is if they say during the spell it didnt just bring in tobey and andrews peter parkers and their villains but it bought in madam web and maybe it did do something to the time line and fit it in the mcu timeline as in 2003
Maybe the spider verse of Madame Webb could’ve been one big spider verse where tobey mcguire’s spiderman is considered the first spiderman in New York and the first spiderman seen in the outside world. Outside the Amazon. And it would be a matter of time before New York suffers a big crime wave without Spiderman and before Andrew takes the spiderman mantle. And maybe Cassie would have psychic powers to predict the big threats coming ahead. Even tobey McGuire quitting as Spiderman. Maybe he does inspire New Yorkers to be heroes of their own being. Maybe that could’ve worked. And that would include the three girls of that movie
Honestly, any explanation is better than the non-explanation they gave us, so your theory is a cool way the story could have gone. Thanks for sharing it!
If it weren't for all the blue stuff at the baby shower, I'd actually wager a guess that Mary isn't pregnant with Peter, but with his little sister Teresa, whom she gave birth to shortly before her and Richard's deaths. Would make the whole 2003 choice less confusing.
Yeah, good point...I forgot to mention her quote in the vid. So, if we can actually trust Dakota (@drewharris2172 makes a good point that the actors are sometimes incorrect), then it seems it's off in its own universe. So bizarre!
Madame Web is connected to the Sony's Spider-Man Universe, so that means this is the timeline Sony's Spider-Man Universe 2003: Madame Web 2018: Venom 2019: Morbius 2020: Venom Let There Be Carnage Now the only films that I don't know what year to place them, are Kraven the Hunter & Venom 3, I would say that Kraven the Hunter most likely takes place in 2021 and maybe Venom 3 takes place that same year, or 2022 also that means that the Peter Parker variant that was born at the end of Madame Web, is the same age I am, and the most likely thing that they will do is have the live action Miles Morales Spider-Man film take place on this same timeline, leading to it having Miles Morales as a main character during Avengers Secret Wars, and then Miles Morales will go up against the Sinister Six team including Vulture, Morbius, Venom, Kraven the Hunter & Madame Web.
@@AbitofEverything4U Can you re edit the timeline sheet, and connect Madame Web to the other films like Venom, Morbius, Venom Let There Be Carnage & Kraven the Hunter we even have conformation from Sony themselves that this is the correct timeline. Keep up the good work with the videos.
The interesting thing is that Dakota Johnson said that it's not connected to anything...so while I think you are correct, it seems the official answer is that it is unconnected. So strange. Sigh.
As I understand it, their original intent with this movie was to imply that Madame Web and all the Venomverse movies is now supposed to be part of the Amazing Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield) continuity as late in the game as when they were shooting it. Then Sony decided "No we want it to be Tom Holland" and when they were told "You can't make it Tom Holland without saying all this is in the MCU which it can't possibly be", Sony didn't care. Sony seemed to think that they could eventually put Holland in this universe and it wouldn't confuse audiences. It absolutely would! Maybe he could be a variant that looks exactly the same but that's the problem. They would be diluting the brand. Sony seems not to care about that. They don't care about story,characters or how the audience might be misled. Don't forget they flat out refused to tell people whether or not Venom was in the MCU. They wanted people to think "Maybe it is and therefore I have to go see it if I'm a Marvel completist." Then it got even more complicated. Turns out the original story of Madame Web was about the bad guy preventing the birth of Peter. But they did their math wrong and it doesn't line up with his age now. Probably they forgot to factor in the 5 years he spent as dust. So the rejiggered storyline is about saving these Spider-Women. They built that out if reshoots and ADR (bad ADR) and cutting out any mention of which Spider-Man this is supposed to be. Which is why Ben and Mary are in so little of the movie. Then Sony announced it is a stand alone that doesn't connect to their universe or Marvel's. This is a hot mess.
Excellent summary! tbh, I just never quite understood why they didn't stick with the tie to Andrew's Spider-Man like they originally had it. I think everyone would have loved that!
LOL that’s such a good point. Sony execs probably set this in 2003 since Peter is supposed to be 18 in NWH, which came out in 2021. 2021-18 = pregnant Mary in 2003. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is true considering they did 8 years later in Homecoming just to make Liz’s age match up without considering the ramifications on the rest of the universe. They probably didn’t even realize or care that NWH was not set in 2021 and that Peter spent 5 years as dust.
Good movie or not I always have to admire your open-minded optimism to want to dive into the greater concepts of even the most poorly received of recent comic book movies while everyone else has already been coming down hard on this one already. One of my main interests for going into Madame Web myself was for the same reason I wanted to look at Morbius when that movie came out, since a lot of my familiarity with these characters had been through them playing big parts in the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon, so it was only natural that Sony was going to have me curious to see how they were going to be adapting them for live-action while wanting to give them their own origin movies. Plus I still think that Cassandra's clairvoyant abilities were going to be an interesting concept to base a whole movie around regardless. I didn't find the movie offensively bad while watching it, but it was pretty obvious to me that whatever went on in this movie was intended just to introduce and set up Madame Web as a character/concept only so she could be possibly brought back as a bigger and more important character later on in whatever Sony's ultimate "plan" for these movies would be. Otherwise if nothing else ever comes out of this movie with how much negative reception it's already gotten then it would just make Madame Web feel only more like a disposable waste of time, which is probably the most negative thing that I can say about it right now. Doesn't help that the MCU's Doctor Strange was also introduced through his own origin movie so he could be set up to be a bigger multiversal level character since then, and his movie is unquestionably better and still holds up well.
Excellent commentary. Yeah, I was curious about how they would adapt Madame Web as well and since I'm a sucker for Spider-Man movies, I had to go to give it a chance. And honestly, the movie wasn't that bad on the surface. For me, the biggest issue was that they spent an entire movie having normal people fight a spiderman. In any other situation, Spiderman would have wiped the floor with them, but instead, they continue to find ways to keep the story going and as a Spider-Man fan, that bugged me the most. I love my guy Spidey and I didn't like seeing a version of him getting duped so many times. Ugh. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Sony's overall plan truly is...maybe this all leads somewhere down the road. We'll have to see. Again, loved your comments. Thanks for sharing all that!
I wanted to maybe watch the film on a Saturday because I love Julia Carpenter Spider Woman from the comics and wanted to see it in live action. But when I heard the reviews that the three Spider-Women would only be in their costumes for a minute and heard the rest of the film's sequence, I said to myself, okay, I'm definitely not going to spend my money on this film. That just proved to me that Sony is making these films without love, but just to keep the Spider-Man film rights. That's why I won't watch Kraven, Venom 3, El Muerto and that rumor Sinister Six film in the cinema.
The album on which Toxic appears didn't come out until November of 2003. Toxic was released as a single the following January. That's when it first charted, according to Billboard.
Yeah, good point...they definitely messed up with timing of that song. It wasn't released as a single until Jan, 2004 for that matter. I think the Beyonce reference does a better job of nailing down the timeline, tbh.
@aresef Thank you! I don't even like Britney Spears, but I remember being in high school senior year when that song came out and a quick Google search could've told them 2003 was the wrong year and the movie had to have been set in Spring 2004 to make sense (since it's not winter time in the movie.) That's literally the only reason one of the writers set it in 2003; she said she just wanted to use Toxic as a radio song in one of those press tour interview videos (also cause Sony owns the rights to the song.)
This is really random… but if a variant is on trial and not pruned… where do they go? Does the TVA hire them? I guess you can never have enough time cops, especially with Deadpool killing a bunch of them haha (but actually)
I hava e theory: Ezekiel is not dead and in a following movie,we'll see Julia, Anya and Mattie dressed up as superheroes trying to kill him, because he tried to kill them first. It's a vicious circle, he wants to kill them cause they'll kill him. But they'll kill him cause he tried to kill them. And he did it because they were gonna kill him. But they were gonna kill him cause he tried to kill them. And it continues like this without having a starting or ending point
If we actually get to see the three girls in their superhero outfits for the majority of the movie, I'd be down for it. Can't believe we got like 2 minutes of them in their suits. Sigh.
Oh boy the video I was waiting for. As for the Strange comparison, you gotta remember that was via the Time Stone. I didn't even catch on to the "shot in queens" joke. I thought they were gonna finally reveal the name at the end of the movie and they didn't. I also noticed they called Julia, Julia Campbell not Carpenter. Oh wow I didn't even catch that he choked all three of them (four if you count the poor lady earlier on). And yeah it was a bit weird that only Cassie and the girls could see him while he was in the suit. So I did not think that vision was a vision. I thought it was a case of she flashed back after he stabs her. You are right, the movie has some cool scenes and even some good ideas ... but a lot of the execution could have been so much better. Just remember too we're getting to the E in Madame Web, I mean the fireworks. Wait ... that bit with multiple Cassies was astral projection? On the subject of Peter ... yeah it's none of the established universes. Even if you went with Peter being 21 ... MCU Peter isn't because of being blipped. I also now realize that final shot is the vision Ezekial had but with Madame Web included. Makes me think Ezekial may just still be alive. I'm shocked at the Madame Web and Morbius comparison ... I don't still think Madame Web was better than Venom but definitely superior to Morbius. And great job on the month placement.
So, I've had a few people say that her name in the movie was Cornwall...so it's funny how we are all hearing different names. In the end, I went with Carpenter since that's what we know from the comics, but I don't get why they changed her name at all, tbh. So weird. And yeah, the timeline is a total mess. Sony gonna Sony!
I’d argue Tom Holland’s Peter can’t be the one from Madam Web bc it is stated in Homecoming (which occurs in 2016) that Peter is 15. Therefore he’d be born in 2000/2001 and not 2003. And since the Venom movies make it clear that there is no Spider-Man in their timeline, the only possibility left is that Madame Web occurs in its own TL, which only makes this movie less relevant. Truly a waste of opportunity.
I too was confused about who could see Ezekiel. The girls saw him too, but nobody else? The dude was unaliving ppl left and right and I didn't see any characters outsiders of the girls comment or react to him! Is this a perception field from Doctor Who sorta thing?
Ok, my mind checked out early when watching this movie. Not because of any emotional related reasons like; hate, disgust, or unacceptance (those are fan attributed reactions). The reason I checked out was due to over analyzing the film in real time. Which blocked my submersion into it as a movie viewer. This film has some odd moments but these two below just irked me. 1. Ezekiel's precognitive vision is of the costumed females looking down at him seconds before he dies. 2. The precognitive vision of the quadriplegic female is of her being included(composited) into the same vision Ezekiel had. So my question is this...Did young EZ actually die in this film. Or will he return later in that timeline at some point and experience the moment in his original vision? Why would they both share a similar vision of the future that future moment. Would not his apparent death in the past nullify that moment from occurring? I think i'd have a more immersive movie experience , if I was watching a live action 90 minute Squirrel Girl movie.
Yeah, I agree...the movie really made me check out early. So much of it made no sense. It was clearly re-edited and re-tooled at least a few times in post-production and the final result was just a mess. Your illustration of confusing logic was a great example of the many problems in the film. Wonder if the original movie would have been watchable. It feels like there was something good under all that mess, but ig we'll never know. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I agree...it makes the most sense that way. It's remotely possible it ends up tying into Venom 3, but I think you are correct that it is off on its own. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Thx so much!
24:47 Tom Holland was born in 2001. It doesn't work for Andrew either. Apparently, at one point in time it Spider-Man was meant to be in the movie but they realized the timeline doesn't work. Like how do you do that.
@@AbitofEverything4U It's also crazy that they made the suits for not even 3 minutes of screen time. Not to mention, Ezekiels lines were all dubbed over. It almost seems like there was a completely different movie at one point.
Yep...that's the rumor...supposedly it was originally a plot where Ezekiel was trying to kill Peter Parker, who would have ended up being Andrew's Spider-man in the future. So it started out as a totally different movie, according to rumors.
after seeing this movie yesterday i genuinely thought it was just mid 5.5/10. there was some pretty good shots/cinematography and sequences, but overall the dialogue, delivery from the actors, bad CGI and just the fact that the spiderwomen literally spend at least 1 minute in costumes and never fight as spiderwomen just overshadows the good elements of this film. i think sony shouldn’t have spent the entire film as an origin story for how madame web is in the comics, and instead at least should have spent maybe like a third of the movie setting up how she becomes madame web and then having a conflict and resolution. would i watch this again? in theaters no, after like 2 to 3 years after i completely forget about this film, sure maybe.
Excellent review of the movie. Yep, you landed on the main issues I had as well...but I also agree that it wasn't terrible. It isn't good, but it was at least watchable. At the end of the day, however, I am left wondering where Sony goes with it from here. So much wasted potential. Sigh.
POOR UNCLE BEN! I didn't catch it while watching the movie, but there are SO MANY times where he gets shade thrown to him. Anyways, I watched the movie, and all I can say is... it's definitely one of the movies of all time. I truly don't understand Sony and where they're going with this. I heard from a comment that apparently they wanted to make a Madame Web movie because they wanted a character that could be their Doctor Strange / America Chavez in the sense that it facilitates multiversal travel for when they start doing that, but... really?? Did Madame Web really need her own movie?! Also, what was up with Ezekiel's dialogue?? I found the ADR incredibly distracting. And their forced inclusion of Peter Parker?! What was the goal?? At least Madame Web didn't mess up as badly as Morbius's post credits scene... BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE ONE. Honestly, it's so rare for comic book movies these days to NOT include a post credits scene, that I start to think: imagine if they had a post credits scene so incredibly bad they had to cut it. Just a thought. There are very few good things I can say about this movie. Sony, please stop. It's bad enough that the best thing about your movie is a line that was only in the trailer. I'll end this with a poem that was posted by one of the movie's actresses, Isabela Merced: Roses are red Our fates are tied He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died.
I just got home from seeing this, and… oh my word… I *think* the “people can’t see Ezekiel in his suit” thing comes from how fast he is? I wanna say he’s too stealthy and swift to be detected normally. Because when he’s standing still at the top of the Calvin Klein billboard, Young-cle Ben sees him and says “what is that?” So he definitely… *shouldn’t* be invisible, unless the writer or director or whatever forgot they made him invisible… my goodness, my head hurts
Yeah, the logic of the movie was confounding at times. Your theory on the suit makes sense, so I'll go with that. Nice call! So, like I didn't hate the movie, as it had some cool scenes in it, but it could have been so much better if Sony hadn't tinkered with to the point where there was nothing left. Sigh.
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, I imagine there was some version of this that would’ve worked much better. It was definitely an entertaining watch, but perhaps not for all the intended reasons! 😂
Okay, I'm gonna go against the majority here, but I... kinda liked it? It's definitely not a masterpiece, far FAR from it, but wasn't as bad as people are describing it either. The plot was straightforward and easy to follow (maybe just a bit rushed in some sequences: like, we never got to learn what kind of fortune/empire Ezekiel built in all those years after Peru), and the main cast was actually likeable and fun to follow. The action was good too (even though I must say that I didn't notice the strangling women thing. That just slipped past me haha). I can't speak for the dialogue because I watched it dubbed in Italian and I'll have to wait for it to come out in streaming to see it English, but I can at least say that the Italian dubbing team did a good job. For me, the only real problem of the movie was the lack of tension that comes from the weird structure that they chose. They tell us everything upfront: we see Cassie's mom getting shot right at the start, we see her being bit by the spider and giving birth to Cassie, and we also see Ezekiel's dream of the girls killing him a few scenes later. All of these important scenes were put right at the start and the effect was that throughout the whole movie we already knew who the villain was and what he was trying to accomplish, effectively making the whole experience just a game of guessing how and when he was gonna show up next. I would have saved those scenes for later and kept the mystery for the first half of the film, so that the audience could feel the uncertainty and the danger of the story and Ezekiel could actually come across as a scary villain, until the reveal of his true motivation. I also am a bit disappointed that the movie wasn't actually about the girls becoming superheroes and fighting the villain themselves, but I'd say that, like in many other cases lately, this is much more of a marketing problem than an actual issue with the movie. Rewatching the trailers and looking at the posters now, they truly do imply that the story was gonna be about them as superheroes, but we instead got an origin story for Madame Web. Still cool, but not what was promised. The same thing, and arguably more infuriating, happened with Morbius, if you recall. That movie also had its problems, especially that awful post-credit scene, but I still maintain that if they were truly honest in the trailers instead of literally lying by putting references to a non-esistent Spider-Man cameo, they would have saved themselves at least half of the hate they got. If Madame Web was marketed honestly, it could have been a great launching point for a potentially good Spider-Verse crossover down the line. But hey, I survived the sequels to John Carter in 2012 being canceled just because they screwed up the marketing for an otherwise great movie (no, I'm not still salty about that, you are! 😂), I can survive this other flop as well.
Excellent commentary on the movie! I agree, it wasn't as bad as the critics are saying and I found it to be enjoyable at times. You nailed my key issues though...the overall structure seemed off and the advertising was misleading. I do, however, think the backbone of a good movie was there, it just wasn't executed as well as it could have been. Thx as always for sharing your feedback!
I also agree, Morbius was worse. But it also helps I like the girls better than Morbius. Dakota really tries to make this movie work. As far as Spider-Guy, I think everyone could see him. For instance, some cops do run past the ladies in the subway when Ezekiel is killing the first few cops to go after him specifically. And if you pause your video at 16:39 you can see the kids at the dancing table looking directly at Ezekiel. It seems more like that line of "Are people not seeing this?!" was just a weird line. That said, the movie is very careful to edit around any other possible reactions people could have, like in the diner scene. So...who knows, maybe he had invisibility powers too until someone in editing thought it was a bad idea and cut it, but he doesn't seem to now. Also, according to Peter's passport, he's born on August 10, 2001, so unless Sony got another timeline date wrong, he can't be MCU Peter.
Interesting theories on the invisibility (or the non-invisibility, as the case may be). I just found it really confusing. And I agree, the movie doesn't work with Tom for lots of reason, including his 2001 b-day. Just such a strange movie. It isn't good, but it was at least semi-watchable. At the end of the day, however, I am left wondering where Sony goes with it from here. So much wasted potential. Sigh.
11:40 Keeping in mind he gets those faces OUT OF A DREAM we don't have that technology now, let alone 2003. edit: also the "goal" was clear; hold the license
One of the funniest/kinda saddest things to come out of this movie is all the actors thinking they’re part of the main MCU now because they don’t know about the whole Sony legal stuff.
ikr? That might be the most bizarre turn of events regarding the movie. I kinda feel sorry for them, tbh. Imagine suddenly realizing the truth of the situation. Ooof!
At this point, you’d think that Sony would just adapt something like Trouble (a “very special” limited series about May Reilly + Richard, Mary, & Ben Parker being swingers) if they were going to have Emma Roberts and Adam Scott play them…at least, just going off of what they did here in Madame Web 🤷🏽♂️ I mean…they already have Marisa Tomei playing Aunt May. It writes ITSELF!
Interesting idea! Yeah, it will be fascinating to see what Sony decides to do after this movie. I just wish they had a plan we could understand and get behind, but it seems they are just drifting aimlessly along.
Just saw Madame Web but I now want to revisit the old 90s Spider-Man TV show to see more of her. The movie was kinda meh to me but liked to see Ezekiel in live action tho.
Yeah, the movie definitely had some good moments in it, even if overall it was just so-so. And I agree, Madame Web in the 90s Spider-Man Animated series was great!
Couple of things I'd like to give my perspective on. First: just not sure where you are getting the idea that only Cassie and the girls can see him in his suit. I never thought that at all during this movie and even in the still frame you have at 16:40 you can see some guys in the background looking right at him as he approaches them in his suit (which I remember he was wearing the suit in this scene.) Second: my interpretation of Ezekiel seeing the girls killing him in the future was like a vision of fates or destiny of sorts. Basically if he didn't think they'd kill him in the future, he would never go after them, so Cassie would never NEED to protect them and would never become the Madame Web she was destined to be. She even says something in the end just before he dies along the lines of "You were seeing them in your future but you should've been seeing me." So I take that as he was given a vision by destiny or the fates that would manipulate him to take a path that birthed Cassie becoming Madame Web. Third: you say they are basically fighting Spider-Man and that it seems weird they are able to. While I don't wholeheartedly disagree with you, I like to chalk it up to a few things. 1) He's not Peter Parker, he's NOT Spider-Man...sure he got bit by a similar spider and acquired similar powers but what's on the inside is different. As Erskine said Captain America: The First Avenger "Good becomes great, bad becomes worse." He's an egotistical, self centered, narcissist who wants to take his time with them and "strike a pose" as you put it. He's not using his brains or his heart to fight, but his ego. And 2) he's literally up against someone who can see his every move before he makes it so...yeh lol. In my honest opinion this woulda been a better movie if they had cut ALL the superhero stuff and just made it a movie about a girl who can see the future trying to save three girls from a psycho killer. I got lots of Michael Myers vibes from the way the girls looked at him and the way he cockily approached them. There's a good movie hidden in here but it's bogged down by the marketing showing us the superhero costumes and telling us this is a superhero movie when it is in fact NOT EVEN CLOSE to being a superhero movie! It just came off as totally weird and really feels like Sony is just making these things because they can and not because they actually have a passion to make them or a real road map of what they want to do with them! Anyway great video as always! Love being able to comment and discuss this stuff with you! Take care, my friend! 👊
Excellent feedback! Perhaps I'm just dreaming it now, but it seemed like people on the train couldn't see him. But maybe I didn't understand that scene correctly. I like your explanation for the plot with Ezekiel seeing the girls killing him in the future. I just wish they had fleshed that out abit more and explained it better in the movie. In the comments, people have given lots of different takes on it, which is fine, but I would have loved to know what the writers were intending. It was just weird that he was only killed by Madame Web because he thought the girls would kill him. So it's kinda a vicious that hurts my brain abit. I definitely agree that Ezekiel isn't Spider-Man and that Ezekiel is arrogant beyond belief. But he still has some very impressive super powers and it seems like they defeated him a few times too many. It would be like the campers in a Jason movie beating Jason like 4 or 5 times. The reason those movies work is Jason mows through most of the campers and the final girl manages to best him in a crazy last act. But this movie basically did the last act 4 or 5 times in a row. Speaking of Jason, I totally agree that if they didn't want to have the spiderwomen appear in costume for more than 2 minutes, I would have loved a movie about a girl who can see the future trying to save three girls from a psycho killer. That would have been very cool! Again, fantastic feedback. Loved it!
I found the "we're all connected" part especially dumb. Because, how in any way are they connected? Cassie doesn't know Mattie or Julia, and never speaks to Anya Corazon, yet somehow all 3 count as equally connected to Cassie?
Yeah, that was definitely weird. Maybe they'll try to say they are all connected via the web of life and destiny or something like that, but they certainly didn't explain it.
We don't see Madame Web with the girls in Ezekiel's future vision. Maybe the vision represents a possible future in which Ezekiel killed Cassandra (presumably by choking her) and they are avenging her. Not very superhero-like but they might be blinded by grief. As for all the choking, I'm fine with it because Ezekiel is a villain. He's supossed to be evil and unlikeable. That's like disliking Beauty and the Beast because Gaston is misoginystic and abusive, when that's the point of the character.
That's a cool theory on his vision. I'd be down for that explanation. As for the choking, ig it was just that he did it so many times. But one commentor suggested it was the easiest way to poison people, which does make sense. Anyway, great feedback on the vid!
Yeah, they definitely messed up the timeline references in the movie. But I think that they wanted it to be 2003 due to showing us that year in a graphic, even if they messed up several of the elements like that PSP along the way. Craziness.
Wait you’re absolutely right! For some reason no one could see Ezekiel during that whole train station situation but all of a sudden Ben Parker is able to see him when they’re rushing Mary Parker to the hospital?? Talk about all the plot holes in this
Do we know why she was called Julia Cornwall in the movie? Is that her maiden name in the comics or something? Of all the things to change it seemed like a weird detail. (For reference my only exposure to Julia Carpenter is the 90s Iron Man Animated Series)
Yeah, I have no idea why they did that. I almost called her Cornwall in the video, but changed it over to Carpenter since even on the internet they were calling her Julia Carpenter in several of the cast listings. There were alot of strange decisions made in the movie and Julia's last name ranks right up there with the most confusing choices.
I can’t wait to watch you try and take this seriously 😂 I saw it opening night with my brother. If you have someone fun to watch it with, I think you’ll get a good laugh. As always, love your coverage! Don’t take my sarcastic cynicism toward this movie as any kind of negative critique of your content. Keep it up!
Yeah, it was very hard to stay neutral as I was doing the breakdown. It's just not a good movie. I did enjoy some elements of it and there was the backbone of a decent story in there, but the final result was very unfortunate. Glad you had fun watching it with your brother. I bet that was a hoot!
@@AbitofEverything4U In Marvel comics Richard and Mary Parker was CIA agents. You have read comics about Madame Web and Peter Parker to get the understanding of Madame Web movie.
Yeah, I haven't read some of the newer Madame Web comics, but I did read all of her earliest appearances. But I do like how they were tying into the Andrew Garfield storyline with Richard and Mary. Bummer they didn't leave the MW film tying into his Spider-Man. Sigh.
lol...sorry, I just gotta say that or someone will comment saying "you didn't tell me there would be spoilers". But yeah, pretty obvious this is a spoiler review.
Check out the Google Drive timeline documents: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1R_PrexMkTjYpQAraxlhzs2U5EPJEPioc.
Join the conversation with over 1100 members on the discord server: discord.gg/aboeMCU
I think it's part of the SSU, and they just cut all references to the greater Spider-Verse in late stage editing.
@@themuppetdon yep, I'm thinking you are correct about that!
This why we need the TVA: to prune unnecessary timelines like this.
This proves that kang was right, give him the control of the sacred timeline back
Preach it!
@@simcity4111lol!
😆
😂
Watching this to avoid the movie that supposedly makes Morbius look like The Dark Knight
Very smart call!
same. morbius was kinda enjoyable if u view it as just a bad movie. this is just really bad. the biggest nail in the coffin for me is the majority of the villain’s dialogue being horribly ADR afterwords
Honestly to me this movie is better than Morbius because the actors in this movie, for the most part, cared. Unlike in Morbius where only Matt Smith was having a fun time.
@@stefan6347 I don't think anybody in Madame Web seemed like they were having a good time.
@@stefan6347 Yeah, I liked Madame Web abit more than Morbius as well. I had more fun watching it.
Take a shot every time he says “he strangles em” 😂😂
Sadly, you would be passed out under the table before the last time I said it...lol!
He poisoned them
@@Glitch-qj3nj Yep...that makes alot of sense, tbh.
I don’t know what was more annoying the strangling on him getting so butt hurt about it…
@@alexmartin3143 Oh, it's not that I'm so bothered by it, per se, it's just that it became eye-rolling at some point. It's like the writer or director was trying to work some aggression against a past failed marriage partner or something. Just not quite sure how no one making the movie saw that he strangled women that many times.
I’m of the belief that it has to be canon to at least one timeline (most likely the SUMC) simply because Sony as a studio has been OBSESSED with creating their shared universe, dubious connections or otherwise. It doesn’t make sense to me that they’d put it in another different universe when they’ve been jingling the keys for some sort of team-up/crossover etc. for so long
Maybe they want to make a multiverse crossover, so they want multiple universes so they can colide them or something. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but it could be their idea, at least I think it was very likely (even if they are changing course now) considering the vulture Morbius scene (AAAAAAAAA)
Yeah, I agree with you...it sure feels like it's meant to be connected somewhere and ig the Venom movies are the place to do it. Perhaps we'll learn more when Kraven and Venom 3 arrive? Or perhaps @simcity4111 is correct that it is a different universe but will result in a big spidergeddon crossover down the road.
@ColeRowe404
One of the writers said she only set it in 2003 literally just to use Britney Spears' Toxic as a radio song.
Tom Holland's Spider-Man would be born in 2001 and Marissa Tomei wouldn't be the right age to be Adam Scott's wife in this movie.
You're overthinking it and putting more thought into this than the actual movie makers did.
@@MarvinPowell1 Yup, you nailed it...I think all of us are putting more thought into this than the actual writers of the script. lol!
Sometimes i think that these sony movies must be part of some very complex money Laundry or some sort of way of avoiding paying taxes, there's no WAY
lol...you may be onto something there!
It's to not loose the rights
@jesusramirezromo2037 They could at least try😢 I mean, the rights to use one of the most popular superheros and his villans, they could explore his villans in solo movies! But they really seem to be scraping the barrel with these movies.
@@jesusramirezromo2037they make Spider-Man movie to not lose the rights (I think it’s every 5 years), but these spin offs they make for cheap, so they don’t even care if they suck. It’s more damaging to their competitor’s brand than it hurts Sony. They made this movie for 80$ million and it’s already made 50$ million in one weekend. It’ll probably just barely break even in the theaters and then they’ll sell it to Netflix or Disney on streaming, or some TV channel. Either way they’ll make a little bit of money on this, which is better for them than no money.
I think Sony is realizing the morbid curiosity of audiences for a bad movie is more lucrative than spending 150$ million and trying to make a good movie. So they cheap out and if it sucks, it sucks, cuz they’ll make money either way.
@@nuvjoti Sadly, you may be right about that!
The South American Spider-Man tells Cassie that Ezekiel is cursed because of his crimes, and stealing the spider. The visions that he was receiving were false visions meant to direct him toward the people who would defeat him.
Oh! Okay, that helps. I'll be honest, I didn't pick that part up, but at least it explains one of my biggest gripes with the movie. Thanks so much! Now if we can just figure out the invisibility thing...that really confused me.
If by South American Spider-Man. I resume it’s Amado Carillo Fuentes from Narcos Mexico. Then yes it’s Spiderman alright
@@elperrodelautumo7511 At this point, it seems anything is possible!
The timeline of this movie makes no sense; they originally set it in the 1990's to make the baby be Andrew Garfield's Peter. Then they decided to set it in 2003, despite the fact that Tom Holland's Peter was born in 2001, and this isn't the MCU. Now they've set up an entirely new Peter that will never get cast so as to not intrude on the MCU's Spider-Man, meaning none of these movies are going anywhere.
Was coming to say this...
Well said...that's how I felt about the timeline, too. I mean, ig it could tie into the Venom verse and we'll see a brand new Spider-Man appear in Venom 3? It's all just so baffling, tbh.
They could’ve made it into one Spiderman universe. Where the original Tobey McGuire Peter Parker was the original Spiderman and then Andrew becomes the second and Tom the third. See that’s a spider verse worth the making
Seeing as this isnt the mcu or Garfield's universe none of that matters so....
They will cast a new actor for Peter Parker this year and they will debut in the post-credits scene of Kraven the Hunter & he will have a big role during Venom 3.
I need a deep dive on the production of this movie so bad. The amount of ADR used on Ezekial plus the Parkers make me think the original plot for this movie had Madame Web and the spider-women trying to protect Mary and Ben from being targeted by Ezekial, but that shifted when they couldn’t get the timeline right/weren’t allowed to use MCU Peter Parker. Also makes me wonder if the Spider People of Peru and the Web of Life and Destiny were in the cards or if Sony was just slinging stuff at the wall to see what stuck, lol
Also, I just wanted to point out since I haven’t seen anyone else mention it, but movie Ezekial totally jacked Kaine’s look and precognitive powers. Even his more antagonistic role wasn’t really in character for Ezekial.
Yeah, I'd pay good money to know how many changes were made to this story. It feels like there was a decent story in there somewhere, but what we got was such a mess. And good point about them basically combining Ezekiel and Kaine!
Dude I love your work, I try and watch everything when I have time….. I just saw MW yesterday, and it’s been nearly 24 hours of torture thinking about this movie.
I hope you’re doing well my man, I will watch this when I’m not mentally drained by this movie. Keep up the great work!
Yeah, that movie was something else. I just don't get Sony...I mean, I REALLY just don't get Sony.
Wow. I can tell u out all the reviews I've watched this one by far is excellently researched, very well edited, and has very detailed bookmarks! I can tell you worked hard at this! Loved the video!
(And I haven't seen madame web OR morbius so I have no answer yet. Lol.)
Thanks! Yeah, I tried my best. It wasn't a very good movie, although it had some enjoyable moments. So I wanted to try to give it a fair shake with the breakdown. Will be interesting to see what they do with the characters going forward. I did like the Spiderwomen, so maybe they reappear at some point.
Young-cle Ben is the What If Thanos of Madame Web.
“The joke is he dies!” 😅
lol! Nicely done!
With the amount of women Ezekiel strangles in this movie I'm surprised they didn't make a poster for the film with him strangling Madame Webb. Like when FOX made that really weird and uncomfortable poster for X-Men: Apocalypse with Apocalypse strangling Mystique. Anyways, great video!
Good analogy to the X-Men: Apocalypse poster. Yeah, it was really weird to see him continuing to strangle women over and over. Honestly, there was the potential for a good movie in there somewhere, but Sony really fumbled the ball. Sigh.
This will be interesting to watch. But I need sleep first. Goodnight and I shall see you tomorrow.
Congrats to 15.000 btw, you deserve it for all your hard work
Definitely recommend sleep first...but if you have trouble falling asleep, I'm told my vids can put you to sleep right away! : )
@@AbitofEverything4U Haha no offence but your videos are way too interesting for me to fall asleep to
That's good to hear! 🎉🎉
I haven't seen the movie, but I loved this review. Good work
Oh wow...I didn't realized that was unused footage from Spider-Man 2 in that final shot. Craziness. Yes, I 100% agree that Sony should give the rights back to Marvel. Please!
Actually I am 95% sure that it was a used scene
The guy who pointed it out on twitter said that he's pretty sure that "it is the building from the alleyway scene from Spider-Man 2 when Tobey runs pissed off after seeing MJ with Jameson’s son"
Which makes it even worse ngl @@AbitofEverything4U
Shaking my head in dismay. Sigh.
I just want to quickly point out something about Julia (Sydney Sweeney). In the movie, her last name is still Cornwall. In the comics, she changes it to Carpenter after being married.
Oh wow...now that's a good point and it would explain the Cornwall name in the movie. Thanks for sharing that!
I enjoyed my time with Madame Web. The bad writing was tolerable. The human vs superpowered enemy was a good way to make things seem tense and important. And to highlight how much you can do with precog.
I agree, most of the battles between Madame Web and Ezekiel were pretty cool and very suspenseful. I loved the train, the diner and the chase in the ambulance. ig for me the final scene in the warehouse was abit much, as I don't quite see how a precog could know how to dodge all those randomly shooting dangerous fireworks, so it felt more like sheer luck than skill. But I agree, the overall premise of the movie was good and if only the writing had been better, it could have succeeded. Sigh.
I thought the movie was meh but I think the best thing this movie did was introducing spider people into the Sony universe. Though I feel like the movie could have been so much more, with the visions Cassie have I feel like the movie could’ve been like final destination with spider people and I think that could’ve been cool
Excellent comments! Yeah, I was really hoping for a Final Destination vibe and it had elements of it, but didn't really succeed. I agree, I do think the final result of getting 3 spider women and Madame Web out of the movie is worth something, but I just think it could have been so much more. Not the worst Sony have given us, though. Morbius was even worse, imo.
This is 1H 54M and €15 I will never get back from my life😭
LOL! Yep...it was not a good movie...ugh!
you first day viewer folks are quite sad honestly... just wait 3 days to see if a movie bombs before spending ur money supporting garbage like this. remember: SPEAK WITH UR WALLET NOT UR TH-cam ACCOUNT
@@kiromi790 Yup, smart move to wait a day or two before going to a movie to see how the critics respond to it. Granted, critics aren't always right, but you can get a general feel for how a movie will do in that first day or two.
I’ve just realized something, the whole idea of the villain of the movie is beating in time the evil Spider-Man movies that would have been made when he went to public domain…
LOL! You may be onto something there!
If even abitofeverything dislikes the movie, you know its bad
lol...yeah, it was hard to like this movie. I genuinely tried...but ugh!
Thank you for watching Madame Web so that I don't have to! I was actually somewhat curious about this movie, until all the regular TH-cam channels that I watch downright proclaimed how horrible it was, so I decided to watch your video instead of the movie itself. Turns out this video explained everything I was curious to know, namely the main plot points and what sort of easter eggs Sony put in it to connect it to... whatever Spider-thing they're trying to connect it to. (I actually went and saw Morbius in the theater just for that reason, when in retrospect, a spoiler/analysis video similar to this would've sufficed.)
Great feedback...yeah, my goal was indeed to share enough info to allow someone to learn the overall story and connections to the Sony universe and then to decide if it was worth watching the movie on their own. Definitely not as bad of a movie as the critics make it out to be, but also not a great movie in any regard. It had its moments, but was mostly forgettable in the end. Bummer...I think a good movie was in there somewhere, but it was poorly executed in the end.
I watched the movie on the 14th and I had some questions, why did Ezekiel want the spider in the first place? He wasn't sick or anything, I assume that he got bitten, got powers and then started seeing the vision of his death so it wasn't after he got the spider that he started his hunt for the girls so why did he want the spider at the beginning of the movie? Just to get powers? I also noticed that during the diner scene, Britney Spears song starts to play when Cassie arrives at the woods with the taxi after she has her vision, then she drives to the diner and arrives after Ezekiel gets there and runs him over with the song still playing, but before she has the vision, she arrived at the woods, walked half a mile to the diner, had time to talk to the girls and then Ezekiel showed up while the song was still playing, so how was the song still playing if she walked to the diner the first time? Was it faster to walk rather than to drive to the diner or did the writers not think that through? Also, can everyone just get bitten by the spider and get powers? Cause it sure looks like it since the girls all got different powers just like that. Finally, I heard that the director said that this movie is not set in the Sony Universe with Venom and Morbius but in a brand new universe so what do you think about that?
Love the videos!!
Maybe Sony caught wind of the MCU's plans for wanting to introduce their new Fantastic Four in a different universe and wanted to beat them to the punch?
Love your commentary! Yeah, for me the single biggest issue of the movie was the story didn't explain any of the bigger questions like why Ezekiel wanted the spider and why the girls killed him and why everyone seemed to get powers from the spider and how was he able to be invisible and so on. Ugh. And your point about Toxic is hilarious. Maybe that diner loved the song so much they had it on repeat? lol!
As someone who had zero expectations coming in to it, I thought it was a fun and at times suspenseful and emotional movie. I especially loved the train scene and the climax with the ending. I believe the strangling was due to the poison in his hands so that would be the fastest way to get the poison in their veins? To me it was just as fun and visually interesting as doctor strange. The invisible thing is probably another power he has but since Cassie has similar powers she can sense him.
Yup, very fair review of the movie. I do agree that it was fun, suspenseful and emotional and when it was working, it was actually pretty good. I think my biggest gripe with the movie is just that I would have rather seen the three spiderwomen more at some point. But I didn't think it was as bad as the RT score indicated. And that's a good point about him putting the toxin in their necks. If they had explained that in the movie, it might have made it go over over better, tbh. As for the invisible thing, I really wish they had explained it. I truly was confused by it. But yeah, in the end, not a terrible movie and I do think it was better than Morbius.
I consider myself very non strict when it comes to movies, especially Marvel-based BUT this one was straight-up bad (only enjoyable moments for me were those you hated - Uncle Ben jokes 😂). I enjoyed Love and Thunder, MoM and loved The Marvels but not this one at all (I'm comparing them because they're considered "flops", different studios ik). For me Morbius wasn't even that awful. Speaking of which: 28:42 REMEMBER THEY FIXED IT IN ATSV! SONY REPENTED OF THIS SIN AND I WILL BE DEFENDING THEM IN THIS FIELD FOREVER!!! (maybe they'll fix this one somehow but idk if it's possible this time 😢)
LOL! Yeah, the Uncle Ben jokes were funny...maybe groanworthy at the same time, but they were funny. And I should give Sony credit for fixing that Morbius scene in ATSV. They won some points for that. They still lose points for trying to get us to buy into that post-credit scene in the first place, but yeah, they have repented...very fair point. Man, what were they thinking with this story. Ugh!
@@AbitofEverything4U Sure. If they haven't made the scene in the first place they wouldn't ever have to fix it 😅
Tru dat!
I watched it in the theater and was very disappointed that they did not say the “he was in the rainforest with my mom right before she died” line
ikr...I was eagerly awaiting that line!
When i left my Theatre after watching this Movie, i had a dozen Ideas in my Head on how to improve it in the single Hour it took me to get back Home. The one that i believe to be the best to today is, that they should have gotten harder on the Web of Life and Destiny, and bring either the Great Weaver, or the Master Weaver in as a "Mentor" for Cassandra. The Web would then also connect them to the Spiderverse Movies, and of course the weavers are i believe the Origin of a certain Colourscheme, explaining THAT choice for the Spidertribe
Yeah, there were so many ways it could have been a better movie. I just don't get the choices that were made. Sony has proven time and again that they can mess about anything up at this point, as there was alot of potential wasted. Sigh.
Anyone else love the pause after he says "the ever growing" in "the ever growing, ever changing, marvel cinematic universe."? ❤
Aw...thanks for the kind words about the vid. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
Saw it Sunday night, I wasn’t totally disappointed. Had some cool shots / scenes, but my biggest issue was only seeing the spider women in costume for a total of 5 mins or less. And also no post credit? Ya know to advertise the three additional movies that are suppose to come out this year. Kraven, Venom, Beyond the Spiderverse !
I agree, there were some really fun scenes in the movie. The train fight, diner fight and ambulance chase scenes were good. And some of the jokes were pretty funny. So I definitely didn't hate the movie. It just seemed like it could have been so much better. And I couldn't believe how heavily they promoted the spider women in costume and then tricked us. Ooof. Hoping for the best for Kraven, Venom, and BTSV!
Well Dakota herself said in an interview that "you don't have to know anything about anything to watch the movie" so trying to make sense of it is pointless. 🤭🤭
lol...Dakota nailed it!
that famous spider line wasn't cut, it's an amalgamation of things said in the movie. It's very drag race audio editing of them.
Yep
Yep...pretty funny to see how that line evolved into the mess that it is.
The one problem I have with the June tiemframe is that in most universes, as far as I know, is that Peter Parker is usually born on August 10. So the only thing I got for Matti being in school is maybe the movie happens in the span of the entire summer or Matti was in summer school, which to be fair does kinda fit her character
Good point about Matti and summer school. That would be a way to make it fit in August!
Every flashback scene/future sight scene is shot like a Bollywood film😂😂with all the zooms and flashing lights
Yeah, there were some very interesting choices made with those shots. Great comparison to a Bollywood film!
Dakota needs to be the spokesperson for every Sony universe movie. Her enthusiasm is infecting…
lol! Yeah, I suspect she's pretty unhappy with how that movie ended up. Imagine still having contractual obligations requiring you to have to promote that movie. Ugh!
Oh god
It may indeed take God himself to fix this movie!
God bless you for actually watching this movie. And silly was I for thinking Sony would actually provide any answers to the overall Sony-verse.
Yeah, there was so much wasted potential in this movie. Elements of it were fun to watch, but overall it was poorly written and left me scratching my head as I left the theatre. Sigh.
Did you notice that on the lady's newspaper on the train, the headline says 'Space shuttle disaster'. Is that referring to the beginning of Venom? I get that the timelines don't match up but it seems like too much of a coincidence.
Yeah, I wondered if that might somehow tie into the venom storyline. Perhaps this is an earlier crash that somehow ties into the space program we see in the Venom movie? So hard to know with Sony. Sigh.
I just want to point out that the pool Cassandra is birthed out of is very similar to the pool at the beginning of Echo, which is very similar to the pool in the Kahori episode of What If...?
Great point! Yeah, that has been a pretty consistent images in the last few Marvel entries!
I actually thought the “what you’ve never been shot in queens?” joke was funny
Yeah, it was kinda funny in a way...I just felt sorry for poor Ben having his death be the butt of a few jokes. The second joke was definitely meaner than the first, so you are right...if they hadn't done the second one, then the first one might have aged better for me. Anyway, excellent feedback. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The writers are likely less culpable for the multiple strangulations, and more the fight choreographer and ultimately the director
Yeah, excellent point...perhaps the multiple strangulations were more due to the director. I just know someone needs some therapy...stat!
Tbh, I didn’t dislike the movie per se. I had a lot of fun watching it, loved the terrible line delivery and stuff. I was surprised how often Cassie joked about Ben's future death tho
I agree...there were many scenes that I enjoyed and I truly think there was the backbone of a really good movie in there somewhere. It's not terrible...but it could have been so much more if they had taken the time to make the story more coherent. Will be interesting to see what they do with the characters from here. I'd be down with seeing the Spiderwomen return in the future.
People love to complain about the mcu nowdays but these movies make them realize it could be so much worse
Agreed 100%...maybe that's the purpose of the Sony films...they are there to make us love the MCU all the more!
I will say it's in a separate timeline branch way way across the spider verse and Miguel O'Hara is just standing there shaking his head!
lol! You summarized the timeline perfectly! I love the idea of Miguel just standing there shaking his head...epic!
The people who created this movie created Morbius and is making the live action Legend of Zelda movie.
Ooooof! ofc, some of the issue was the studio interference that made them re-write so much of it. But still, I'm surprised that creators of Madame Web are able to find work.
My guess is that they renegotiated the contract with Marvel after Spiderman No Way Home, and Sony cant use Live action Peter Parker in their own movies but they will get a larger cut of the Spider Man movies made by marvel. Its the only explanation that they cant just say the name Peter Parker and the ADR lines, I think that motivation was reworked from killing four spider people, into killing only three spider women.
That would definitely explain things. What a mess Sony has gotten themselves into. Sigh.
I wonder why they made Julia's last name as Cornwall instead of the more common Carpenter? 🤔
Yeah, I thought that was a really odd choice. And several places on the internet even list her as Julia Carpenter, so I just gave up and used that instead, but I don't get the Cornwall decision at all.
Even knowing why Cassie's mom is doing what she's doing in the opening, it still only plays as Cassie's mom losing sight of the point of why she was after the spider if being held at gunpoint is less important. A pregant woman worrying about the future of a baby instead of the immediate present doesn't look any better than not knowing why she was looking for the spider to begin with.
The movie played like the script was written in 2003, not just that that's when the in-universe takes place. Makes me wonder if that was the case and it's been sitting on the shelf for twenty years. Either way, I'm not surprised by the movie we got so much as dispointed at the fact that it could have been good if it didn't play like an early 2000's superhero film.
I could be wrong, but I saw the villain costume as everyone could see it, but the one time they reference the line of no one could it's because he killed those guys and then no other times does it really matter if someone outside the core group does see it or not.
Excellent feedback. You're right, there really is no reason for Cassie's mom to provoke Ezekiel and end up getting shot. Such bad writing. I agree, it's like it was literally written in 2003. Ugh!
@@AbitofEverything4U I was specifically thinking of the _Elektra_ movie, which came out in 2005 when thinking of the script's bad writing.
Agreed...I'm really surprised a superhero movie could be so poorly written in this day and age.
It is located in the Sony Spider-Man Universe, it will connect with Venom 3, who looks for Spider-Man when he arrives in his universe and realizes that he is different and without powers.
Interesting theory...I agree, it seems the only timeline that it can connect to is the Venom-verse. Will be interesting to see what happens in Venom 3.
Regarding the timeline (if it was always supposed to be 2003), there are things in the movie that make me doubt it a lot.
Like Ezekiel Sims’ age doesn’t seem to make sense for 2003. He would have to be far beyond 50 years old in 2003 if that was the intent.
Or the music in the background through most of the movie is 90s (4 Non Blondes, Cranberries, etc) except for that Toxic needledrop. It seemed like Toxic was a post-production decision as the girls dance doesn’t seem to line up to the song super well, plus there’s the *very* badly delivered DJ line about it.
It felt like there were two scripts here:
- one for it to be in the 90s and centered on Web saving Mary Parker who is giving birth to Andrew Garfield’s Peter (yes, Terminator plot - but it lines up also with how they characterize Richard Parker in the Garfield movies, and maybe this is why so much of Sims’ dialogue is ADR?)
- one for it to be in the 00s and centered on Web saving the three girls (nearly all the 00s references happen when the girls are on-screen)
Excellent feedback. Yeah, that does indeed seem to explain the overall weirdness and inconsistency of the movie. Man, I'd pay good money to know the full backstory behind all of this. Craziness!
They’re saying Peter Parker was born in 2003. If you remember in Avengers Infinity War, he was blipped in 2018 for five years so technically he’s still a teenager. Which means this must be Tom Holland’s Spider-Man!
Good point...perhaps the blip makes it all work out for Tom's Spider-Man. Will be interesting to see what Sony does with the characters from here!
@joeyglusky4774
Tom Holland's Spider-Man was born in 2001 and was 15 in Civil War. He'd have been 17 in Infinity War and technically 22 (physically 17) in the final act of Endgame.
This isn't Holland's Spider-Man or anyone else's. The writers didn't give enough of a damn to actually set it in the correct year.
@@MarvinPowell1 ooof! Yeah, the math doesn't work out no matter how you slice it. What a mess. Sigh.
well idk why everyone is complaining. clearly this is gonna be oscar nominated next year. outstanding, script, action scenes, and acting, this move has it all. one of the best superhero movies ive seen in a long long time.😉
Yep...you don't have to be Madame Web to predict a complete and utter domination at next year's Oscar ceremony!
Everyone else saw the spider suit. They saw him at the end when he was gonna blow up the car. The only reason no one saw him in the subway was because he was hiding in the dark. Wasnt super well established so I understand the confusion
Oh! Okay, perhaps that explains it. Thanks for sharing that!
sounds like this movie was a 90 minute long ad for pepsi and whatever plans they have for the future are.
There sure was alot of Pepsi in the film...so Pepsi got their monies worth in that regard!
the only way i see them justifying it being toms is if they say during the spell it didnt just bring in tobey and andrews peter parkers and their villains but it bought in madam web and maybe it did do something to the time line and fit it in the mcu timeline as in 2003
Interesting theory. I agree, that could be a way for them to connect it all. Man, Sony just kills me. Why do they make things so confusing.
Maybe the spider verse of Madame Webb could’ve been one big spider verse where tobey mcguire’s spiderman is considered the first spiderman in New York and the first spiderman seen in the outside world. Outside the Amazon. And it would be a matter of time before New York suffers a big crime wave without Spiderman and before Andrew takes the spiderman mantle. And maybe Cassie would have psychic powers to predict the big threats coming ahead. Even tobey McGuire quitting as Spiderman. Maybe he does inspire New Yorkers to be heroes of their own being. Maybe that could’ve worked. And that would include the three girls of that movie
Honestly, any explanation is better than the non-explanation they gave us, so your theory is a cool way the story could have gone. Thanks for sharing it!
If it weren't for all the blue stuff at the baby shower, I'd actually wager a guess that Mary isn't pregnant with Peter, but with his little sister Teresa, whom she gave birth to shortly before her and Richard's deaths. Would make the whole 2003 choice less confusing.
ahhh they should of taken that route
Good point!
32:20 For where it takes place, Dakota said on multiple interviews that her movie is completely standalone, even from other Sony Marvel properties.
Actors be saying stuff sometimes lol it can always change I guess.
Yeah, good point...I forgot to mention her quote in the vid. So, if we can actually trust Dakota (@drewharris2172 makes a good point that the actors are sometimes incorrect), then it seems it's off in its own universe. So bizarre!
Dakota seemed to also think that this movie was made by Marvel Studios, at least initially, so idk if they’re the best source of truth.
@@nuvjoti Great point!
Madame Web is connected to the Sony's Spider-Man Universe, so that means this is the timeline
Sony's Spider-Man Universe
2003: Madame Web
2018: Venom
2019: Morbius
2020: Venom Let There Be Carnage
Now the only films that I don't know what year to place them, are Kraven the Hunter & Venom 3, I would say that Kraven the Hunter most likely takes place in 2021 and maybe Venom 3 takes place that same year, or 2022 also that means that the Peter Parker variant that was born at the end of Madame Web, is the same age I am, and the most likely thing that they will do is have the live action Miles Morales Spider-Man film take place on this same timeline, leading to it having Miles Morales as a main character during Avengers Secret Wars, and then Miles Morales will go up against the Sinister Six team including Vulture, Morbius, Venom, Kraven the Hunter & Madame Web.
Excellent theories...I think that makes the most sense for the timeline.
@@AbitofEverything4U Can you re edit the timeline sheet, and connect Madame Web to the other films like Venom, Morbius, Venom Let There Be Carnage & Kraven the Hunter we even have conformation from Sony themselves that this is the correct timeline. Keep up the good work with the videos.
The interesting thing is that Dakota Johnson said that it's not connected to anything...so while I think you are correct, it seems the official answer is that it is unconnected. So strange. Sigh.
Sony needs to make a Pepsi Man movie at this point
lol! They do indeed...I'll be there to watch it on day one!
As I understand it, their original intent with this movie was to imply that Madame Web and all the Venomverse movies is now supposed to be part of the Amazing Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield) continuity as late in the game as when they were shooting it. Then Sony decided "No we want it to be Tom Holland" and when they were told "You can't make it Tom Holland without saying all this is in the MCU which it can't possibly be", Sony didn't care. Sony seemed to think that they could eventually put Holland in this universe and it wouldn't confuse audiences. It absolutely would! Maybe he could be a variant that looks exactly the same but that's the problem. They would be diluting the brand. Sony seems not to care about that. They don't care about story,characters or how the audience might be misled. Don't forget they flat out refused to tell people whether or not Venom was in the MCU. They wanted people to think "Maybe it is and therefore I have to go see it if I'm a Marvel completist." Then it got even more complicated. Turns out the original story of Madame Web was about the bad guy preventing the birth of Peter. But they did their math wrong and it doesn't line up with his age now. Probably they forgot to factor in the 5 years he spent as dust. So the rejiggered storyline is about saving these Spider-Women. They built that out if reshoots and ADR (bad ADR) and cutting out any mention of which Spider-Man this is supposed to be. Which is why Ben and Mary are in so little of the movie. Then Sony announced it is a stand alone that doesn't connect to their universe or Marvel's. This is a hot mess.
Excellent summary! tbh, I just never quite understood why they didn't stick with the tie to Andrew's Spider-Man like they originally had it. I think everyone would have loved that!
LOL that’s such a good point. Sony execs probably set this in 2003 since Peter is supposed to be 18 in NWH, which came out in 2021. 2021-18 = pregnant Mary in 2003. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is true considering they did 8 years later in Homecoming just to make Liz’s age match up without considering the ramifications on the rest of the universe. They probably didn’t even realize or care that NWH was not set in 2021 and that Peter spent 5 years as dust.
@@nuvjoti Yep...excellent points!
Good movie or not I always have to admire your open-minded optimism to want to dive into the greater concepts of even the most poorly received of recent comic book movies while everyone else has already been coming down hard on this one already.
One of my main interests for going into Madame Web myself was for the same reason I wanted to look at Morbius when that movie came out, since a lot of my familiarity with these characters had been through them playing big parts in the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon, so it was only natural that Sony was going to have me curious to see how they were going to be adapting them for live-action while wanting to give them their own origin movies. Plus I still think that Cassandra's clairvoyant abilities were going to be an interesting concept to base a whole movie around regardless.
I didn't find the movie offensively bad while watching it, but it was pretty obvious to me that whatever went on in this movie was intended just to introduce and set up Madame Web as a character/concept only so she could be possibly brought back as a bigger and more important character later on in whatever Sony's ultimate "plan" for these movies would be. Otherwise if nothing else ever comes out of this movie with how much negative reception it's already gotten then it would just make Madame Web feel only more like a disposable waste of time, which is probably the most negative thing that I can say about it right now.
Doesn't help that the MCU's Doctor Strange was also introduced through his own origin movie so he could be set up to be a bigger multiversal level character since then, and his movie is unquestionably better and still holds up well.
Excellent commentary. Yeah, I was curious about how they would adapt Madame Web as well and since I'm a sucker for Spider-Man movies, I had to go to give it a chance. And honestly, the movie wasn't that bad on the surface. For me, the biggest issue was that they spent an entire movie having normal people fight a spiderman. In any other situation, Spiderman would have wiped the floor with them, but instead, they continue to find ways to keep the story going and as a Spider-Man fan, that bugged me the most. I love my guy Spidey and I didn't like seeing a version of him getting duped so many times. Ugh. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Sony's overall plan truly is...maybe this all leads somewhere down the road. We'll have to see. Again, loved your comments. Thanks for sharing all that!
I wanted to maybe watch the film on a Saturday because I love Julia Carpenter Spider Woman from the comics and wanted to see it in live action. But when I heard the reviews that the three Spider-Women would only be in their costumes for a minute and heard the rest of the film's sequence, I said to myself, okay, I'm definitely not going to spend my money on this film. That just proved to me that Sony is making these films without love, but just to keep the Spider-Man film rights. That's why I won't watch Kraven, Venom 3, El Muerto and that rumor Sinister Six film in the cinema.
Yep...I totally understand your feeling on all of that. You described it very well. Sony is killin' me. Sigh.
The album on which Toxic appears didn't come out until November of 2003. Toxic was released as a single the following January. That's when it first charted, according to Billboard.
Yeah, good point...they definitely messed up with timing of that song. It wasn't released as a single until Jan, 2004 for that matter. I think the Beyonce reference does a better job of nailing down the timeline, tbh.
@aresef
Thank you! I don't even like Britney Spears, but I remember being in high school senior year when that song came out and a quick Google search could've told them 2003 was the wrong year and the movie had to have been set in Spring 2004 to make sense (since it's not winter time in the movie.) That's literally the only reason one of the writers set it in 2003; she said she just wanted to use Toxic as a radio song in one of those press tour interview videos (also cause Sony owns the rights to the song.)
@@MarvinPowell1 Such a hot mess...how on earth did they make so many mistakes. Sigh.
This is really random… but if a variant is on trial and not pruned… where do they go? Does the TVA hire them? I guess you can never have enough time cops, especially with Deadpool killing a bunch of them haha (but actually)
Yeah, you have to wonder if that's where HWR's got all his agents. Either prune 'em or hire 'em. Sounds like a good company motto!
I hava e theory: Ezekiel is not dead and in a following movie,we'll see Julia, Anya and Mattie dressed up as superheroes trying to kill him, because he tried to kill them first.
It's a vicious circle, he wants to kill them cause they'll kill him. But they'll kill him cause he tried to kill them. And he did it because they were gonna kill him. But they were gonna kill him cause he tried to kill them.
And it continues like this without having a starting or ending point
If we actually get to see the three girls in their superhero outfits for the majority of the movie, I'd be down for it. Can't believe we got like 2 minutes of them in their suits. Sigh.
@@AbitofEverything4U agree
👍
lol @ Ezekiel Sims growing up to become Taika Waititi
lol...now I can't unsee that!
Oh boy the video I was waiting for. As for the Strange comparison, you gotta remember that was via the Time Stone. I didn't even catch on to the "shot in queens" joke. I thought they were gonna finally reveal the name at the end of the movie and they didn't. I also noticed they called Julia, Julia Campbell not Carpenter. Oh wow I didn't even catch that he choked all three of them (four if you count the poor lady earlier on). And yeah it was a bit weird that only Cassie and the girls could see him while he was in the suit. So I did not think that vision was a vision. I thought it was a case of she flashed back after he stabs her.
You are right, the movie has some cool scenes and even some good ideas ... but a lot of the execution could have been so much better. Just remember too we're getting to the E in Madame Web, I mean the fireworks. Wait ... that bit with multiple Cassies was astral projection? On the subject of Peter ... yeah it's none of the established universes. Even if you went with Peter being 21 ... MCU Peter isn't because of being blipped. I also now realize that final shot is the vision Ezekial had but with Madame Web included. Makes me think Ezekial may just still be alive. I'm shocked at the Madame Web and Morbius comparison ... I don't still think Madame Web was better than Venom but definitely superior to Morbius. And great job on the month placement.
So, I've had a few people say that her name in the movie was Cornwall...so it's funny how we are all hearing different names. In the end, I went with Carpenter since that's what we know from the comics, but I don't get why they changed her name at all, tbh. So weird. And yeah, the timeline is a total mess. Sony gonna Sony!
I’d argue Tom Holland’s Peter can’t be the one from Madam Web bc it is stated in Homecoming (which occurs in 2016) that Peter is 15. Therefore he’d be born in 2000/2001 and not 2003. And since the Venom movies make it clear that there is no Spider-Man in their timeline, the only possibility left is that Madame Web occurs in its own TL, which only makes this movie less relevant. Truly a waste of opportunity.
Yep...your logic is very sound. I think it has to be on its own timeline. You said it perfectly...Truly a waste of opportunity. Sigh.
Breaking down this movie(which was really difficult to watch), must be a really difficult task lmao.
It was quite a chore, tbh. All I kept seeing were more and more issues and more and more wasted opportunity. Sigh.
I too was confused about who could see Ezekiel. The girls saw him too, but nobody else? The dude was unaliving ppl left and right and I didn't see any characters outsiders of the girls comment or react to him! Is this a perception field from Doctor Who sorta thing?
I am so glad to hear you didn't understand that either. I kept thinking I dozed off and missed the explanation somewhere.
Sony's in discussion about making Madame Web 2 and/or Morbius 2.
Oh my...please no!
Ok, my mind checked out early when watching this movie. Not because of any emotional related reasons like; hate, disgust, or unacceptance (those are fan attributed reactions). The reason I checked out was due to over analyzing the film in real time. Which blocked my submersion into it as a movie viewer. This film has some odd moments but these two below just irked me.
1. Ezekiel's precognitive vision is of the costumed females looking down at him seconds before he dies.
2. The precognitive vision of the quadriplegic female is of her being included(composited) into the same vision Ezekiel had.
So my question is this...Did young EZ actually die in this film. Or will he return later in that timeline at some point and experience the moment in his original vision? Why would they both share a similar vision of the future that future moment. Would not his apparent death in the past nullify that moment from occurring? I think i'd have a more immersive movie experience , if I was watching a live action 90 minute Squirrel Girl movie.
Yeah, I agree...the movie really made me check out early. So much of it made no sense. It was clearly re-edited and re-tooled at least a few times in post-production and the final result was just a mess. Your illustration of confusing logic was a great example of the many problems in the film. Wonder if the original movie would have been watchable. It feels like there was something good under all that mess, but ig we'll never know. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Madame Web is it’s own universe
I agree...it makes the most sense that way. It's remotely possible it ends up tying into Venom 3, but I think you are correct that it is off on its own. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Thx so much!
24:47 Tom Holland was born in 2001. It doesn't work for Andrew either. Apparently, at one point in time it Spider-Man was meant to be in the movie but they realized the timeline doesn't work. Like how do you do that.
ikr? They left themselves with a mess of a timeline. I just don't see how they ended up here, tbh.
@@AbitofEverything4U It's also crazy that they made the suits for not even 3 minutes of screen time. Not to mention, Ezekiels lines were all dubbed over. It almost seems like there was a completely different movie at one point.
Yep...that's the rumor...supposedly it was originally a plot where Ezekiel was trying to kill Peter Parker, who would have ended up being Andrew's Spider-man in the future. So it started out as a totally different movie, according to rumors.
after seeing this movie yesterday i genuinely thought it was just mid 5.5/10. there was some pretty good shots/cinematography and sequences, but overall the dialogue, delivery from the actors, bad CGI and just the fact that the spiderwomen literally spend at least 1 minute in costumes and never fight as spiderwomen just overshadows the good elements of this film. i think sony shouldn’t have spent the entire film as an origin story for how madame web is in the comics, and instead at least should have spent maybe like a third of the movie setting up how she becomes madame web and then having a conflict and resolution. would i watch this again? in theaters no, after like 2 to 3 years after i completely forget about this film, sure maybe.
Excellent review of the movie. Yep, you landed on the main issues I had as well...but I also agree that it wasn't terrible. It isn't good, but it was at least watchable. At the end of the day, however, I am left wondering where Sony goes with it from here. So much wasted potential. Sigh.
I’m seeing this tomorrow, against all reasonability! 😂
Hoping there is no permanent brain injury from sitting thru it! lol!
POOR UNCLE BEN! I didn't catch it while watching the movie, but there are SO MANY times where he gets shade thrown to him. Anyways, I watched the movie, and all I can say is... it's definitely one of the movies of all time. I truly don't understand Sony and where they're going with this. I heard from a comment that apparently they wanted to make a Madame Web movie because they wanted a character that could be their Doctor Strange / America Chavez in the sense that it facilitates multiversal travel for when they start doing that, but... really?? Did Madame Web really need her own movie?!
Also, what was up with Ezekiel's dialogue?? I found the ADR incredibly distracting. And their forced inclusion of Peter Parker?! What was the goal?? At least Madame Web didn't mess up as badly as Morbius's post credits scene... BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE ONE. Honestly, it's so rare for comic book movies these days to NOT include a post credits scene, that I start to think: imagine if they had a post credits scene so incredibly bad they had to cut it. Just a thought.
There are very few good things I can say about this movie. Sony, please stop. It's bad enough that the best thing about your movie is a line that was only in the trailer. I'll end this with a poem that was posted by one of the movie's actresses, Isabela Merced:
Roses are red
Our fates are tied
He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died.
LOL! Fantastic commentary as always. And the poem was epic...EPIC I say!
I just got home from seeing this, and… oh my word…
I *think* the “people can’t see Ezekiel in his suit” thing comes from how fast he is? I wanna say he’s too stealthy and swift to be detected normally. Because when he’s standing still at the top of the Calvin Klein billboard, Young-cle Ben sees him and says “what is that?” So he definitely… *shouldn’t* be invisible, unless the writer or director or whatever forgot they made him invisible… my goodness, my head hurts
Yeah, the logic of the movie was confounding at times. Your theory on the suit makes sense, so I'll go with that. Nice call!
So, like I didn't hate the movie, as it had some cool scenes in it, but it could have been so much better if Sony hadn't tinkered with to the point where there was nothing left. Sigh.
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, I imagine there was some version of this that would’ve worked much better.
It was definitely an entertaining watch, but perhaps not for all the intended reasons! 😂
lol...well said!
Okay, I'm gonna go against the majority here, but I... kinda liked it? It's definitely not a masterpiece, far FAR from it, but wasn't as bad as people are describing it either. The plot was straightforward and easy to follow (maybe just a bit rushed in some sequences: like, we never got to learn what kind of fortune/empire Ezekiel built in all those years after Peru), and the main cast was actually likeable and fun to follow. The action was good too (even though I must say that I didn't notice the strangling women thing. That just slipped past me haha). I can't speak for the dialogue because I watched it dubbed in Italian and I'll have to wait for it to come out in streaming to see it English, but I can at least say that the Italian dubbing team did a good job.
For me, the only real problem of the movie was the lack of tension that comes from the weird structure that they chose. They tell us everything upfront: we see Cassie's mom getting shot right at the start, we see her being bit by the spider and giving birth to Cassie, and we also see Ezekiel's dream of the girls killing him a few scenes later. All of these important scenes were put right at the start and the effect was that throughout the whole movie we already knew who the villain was and what he was trying to accomplish, effectively making the whole experience just a game of guessing how and when he was gonna show up next. I would have saved those scenes for later and kept the mystery for the first half of the film, so that the audience could feel the uncertainty and the danger of the story and Ezekiel could actually come across as a scary villain, until the reveal of his true motivation.
I also am a bit disappointed that the movie wasn't actually about the girls becoming superheroes and fighting the villain themselves, but I'd say that, like in many other cases lately, this is much more of a marketing problem than an actual issue with the movie. Rewatching the trailers and looking at the posters now, they truly do imply that the story was gonna be about them as superheroes, but we instead got an origin story for Madame Web. Still cool, but not what was promised. The same thing, and arguably more infuriating, happened with Morbius, if you recall. That movie also had its problems, especially that awful post-credit scene, but I still maintain that if they were truly honest in the trailers instead of literally lying by putting references to a non-esistent Spider-Man cameo, they would have saved themselves at least half of the hate they got. If Madame Web was marketed honestly, it could have been a great launching point for a potentially good Spider-Verse crossover down the line. But hey, I survived the sequels to John Carter in 2012 being canceled just because they screwed up the marketing for an otherwise great movie (no, I'm not still salty about that, you are! 😂), I can survive this other flop as well.
Excellent commentary on the movie! I agree, it wasn't as bad as the critics are saying and I found it to be enjoyable at times. You nailed my key issues though...the overall structure seemed off and the advertising was misleading. I do, however, think the backbone of a good movie was there, it just wasn't executed as well as it could have been. Thx as always for sharing your feedback!
I also agree, Morbius was worse. But it also helps I like the girls better than Morbius. Dakota really tries to make this movie work.
As far as Spider-Guy, I think everyone could see him. For instance, some cops do run past the ladies in the subway when Ezekiel is killing the first few cops to go after him specifically. And if you pause your video at 16:39 you can see the kids at the dancing table looking directly at Ezekiel. It seems more like that line of "Are people not seeing this?!" was just a weird line. That said, the movie is very careful to edit around any other possible reactions people could have, like in the diner scene. So...who knows, maybe he had invisibility powers too until someone in editing thought it was a bad idea and cut it, but he doesn't seem to now.
Also, according to Peter's passport, he's born on August 10, 2001, so unless Sony got another timeline date wrong, he can't be MCU Peter.
Interesting theories on the invisibility (or the non-invisibility, as the case may be). I just found it really confusing. And I agree, the movie doesn't work with Tom for lots of reason, including his 2001 b-day. Just such a strange movie. It isn't good, but it was at least semi-watchable. At the end of the day, however, I am left wondering where Sony goes with it from here. So much wasted potential. Sigh.
11:40 Keeping in mind he gets those faces OUT OF A DREAM we don't have that technology now, let alone 2003. edit: also the "goal" was clear; hold the license
Yeah, I still don't get how he got the images out of his mind. Craziness. And you nailed it...this was about holding the license. Sigh.
One of the funniest/kinda saddest things to come out of this movie is all the actors thinking they’re part of the main MCU now because they don’t know about the whole Sony legal stuff.
ikr? That might be the most bizarre turn of events regarding the movie. I kinda feel sorry for them, tbh. Imagine suddenly realizing the truth of the situation. Ooof!
4:00 She looks like she did in the comics after she goes through the 'Gathering of Five' ritual which gave her immorality.
Interesting...okay, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing that!
21:51 "Defibrillators"
Thanks! Yeah, I admit that I totally spaced what those things were called. lol!
Boy you saw the movie so that we wouldn't have to I admire that
lol! Here for you, sir!
@@AbitofEverything4U yeah not seeing this hope this movie is retconned away from the MCU
Fingers crossed!
At this point, you’d think that Sony would just adapt something like Trouble (a “very special” limited series about May Reilly + Richard, Mary, & Ben Parker being swingers) if they were going to have Emma Roberts and Adam Scott play them…at least, just going off of what they did here in Madame Web 🤷🏽♂️
I mean…they already have Marisa Tomei playing Aunt May. It writes ITSELF!
Interesting idea! Yeah, it will be fascinating to see what Sony decides to do after this movie. I just wish they had a plan we could understand and get behind, but it seems they are just drifting aimlessly along.
Sony REALLY considered making an Aunt May movie set in the TASM universe. They've been crazy for years
@@mawinstallation6626 Oh my...I forgot about that!
Just saw Madame Web but I now want to revisit the old 90s Spider-Man TV show to see more of her. The movie was kinda meh to me but liked to see Ezekiel in live action tho.
Yeah, the movie definitely had some good moments in it, even if overall it was just so-so. And I agree, Madame Web in the 90s Spider-Man Animated series was great!
6:30 oh I didn't make that connection, thanks for the grim comparison lol
Yeah, it seemed Uncle Ben was the butt of some very grim jokes. Poor dude!
Couple of things I'd like to give my perspective on.
First: just not sure where you are getting the idea that only Cassie and the girls can see him in his suit. I never thought that at all during this movie and even in the still frame you have at 16:40 you can see some guys in the background looking right at him as he approaches them in his suit (which I remember he was wearing the suit in this scene.)
Second: my interpretation of Ezekiel seeing the girls killing him in the future was like a vision of fates or destiny of sorts. Basically if he didn't think they'd kill him in the future, he would never go after them, so Cassie would never NEED to protect them and would never become the Madame Web she was destined to be. She even says something in the end just before he dies along the lines of "You were seeing them in your future but you should've been seeing me." So I take that as he was given a vision by destiny or the fates that would manipulate him to take a path that birthed Cassie becoming Madame Web.
Third: you say they are basically fighting Spider-Man and that it seems weird they are able to. While I don't wholeheartedly disagree with you, I like to chalk it up to a few things. 1) He's not Peter Parker, he's NOT Spider-Man...sure he got bit by a similar spider and acquired similar powers but what's on the inside is different. As Erskine said Captain America: The First Avenger "Good becomes great, bad becomes worse." He's an egotistical, self centered, narcissist who wants to take his time with them and "strike a pose" as you put it. He's not using his brains or his heart to fight, but his ego. And 2) he's literally up against someone who can see his every move before he makes it so...yeh lol.
In my honest opinion this woulda been a better movie if they had cut ALL the superhero stuff and just made it a movie about a girl who can see the future trying to save three girls from a psycho killer. I got lots of Michael Myers vibes from the way the girls looked at him and the way he cockily approached them. There's a good movie hidden in here but it's bogged down by the marketing showing us the superhero costumes and telling us this is a superhero movie when it is in fact NOT EVEN CLOSE to being a superhero movie! It just came off as totally weird and really feels like Sony is just making these things because they can and not because they actually have a passion to make them or a real road map of what they want to do with them!
Anyway great video as always! Love being able to comment and discuss this stuff with you! Take care, my friend! 👊
Excellent feedback!
Perhaps I'm just dreaming it now, but it seemed like people on the train couldn't see him. But maybe I didn't understand that scene correctly.
I like your explanation for the plot with Ezekiel seeing the girls killing him in the future. I just wish they had fleshed that out abit more and explained it better in the movie. In the comments, people have given lots of different takes on it, which is fine, but I would have loved to know what the writers were intending. It was just weird that he was only killed by Madame Web because he thought the girls would kill him. So it's kinda a vicious that hurts my brain abit.
I definitely agree that Ezekiel isn't Spider-Man and that Ezekiel is arrogant beyond belief. But he still has some very impressive super powers and it seems like they defeated him a few times too many. It would be like the campers in a Jason movie beating Jason like 4 or 5 times. The reason those movies work is Jason mows through most of the campers and the final girl manages to best him in a crazy last act. But this movie basically did the last act 4 or 5 times in a row.
Speaking of Jason, I totally agree that if they didn't want to have the spiderwomen appear in costume for more than 2 minutes, I would have loved a movie about a girl who can see the future trying to save three girls from a psycho killer. That would have been very cool!
Again, fantastic feedback. Loved it!
Your super power is making the movie sound watchable.
lol! I sure tried to be neutral and point out the good and the bad at the same time. But it wasn't easy!
I found the "we're all connected" part especially dumb. Because, how in any way are they connected? Cassie doesn't know Mattie or Julia, and never speaks to Anya Corazon, yet somehow all 3 count as equally connected to Cassie?
Yeah, that was definitely weird. Maybe they'll try to say they are all connected via the web of life and destiny or something like that, but they certainly didn't explain it.
We don't see Madame Web with the girls in Ezekiel's future vision. Maybe the vision represents a possible future in which Ezekiel killed Cassandra (presumably by choking her) and they are avenging her.
Not very superhero-like but they might be blinded by grief.
As for all the choking, I'm fine with it because Ezekiel is a villain. He's supossed to be evil and unlikeable. That's like disliking Beauty and the Beast because Gaston is misoginystic and abusive, when that's the point of the character.
That's a cool theory on his vision. I'd be down for that explanation. As for the choking, ig it was just that he did it so many times. But one commentor suggested it was the easiest way to poison people, which does make sense. Anyway, great feedback on the vid!
31:17 I don't think that stuff like that helps determine when a bad takes place, the guy in the subway had a PSP wich still hadn't released in 2003
Yeah, they definitely messed up the timeline references in the movie. But I think that they wanted it to be 2003 due to showing us that year in a graphic, even if they messed up several of the elements like that PSP along the way. Craziness.
Wait you’re absolutely right! For some reason no one could see Ezekiel during that whole train station situation but all of a sudden Ben Parker is able to see him when they’re rushing Mary Parker to the hospital?? Talk about all the plot holes in this
Yeah, the invisible stuff was so darn confusing. I just assumed I drifted off and missed something in the plot. Craziness!
Do we know why she was called Julia Cornwall in the movie? Is that her maiden name in the comics or something? Of all the things to change it seemed like a weird detail.
(For reference my only exposure to Julia Carpenter is the 90s Iron Man Animated Series)
Yeah, I have no idea why they did that. I almost called her Cornwall in the video, but changed it over to Carpenter since even on the internet they were calling her Julia Carpenter in several of the cast listings. There were alot of strange decisions made in the movie and Julia's last name ranks right up there with the most confusing choices.
I can’t wait to watch you try and take this seriously 😂 I saw it opening night with my brother. If you have someone fun to watch it with, I think you’ll get a good laugh.
As always, love your coverage! Don’t take my sarcastic cynicism toward this movie as any kind of negative critique of your content. Keep it up!
Yeah, it was very hard to stay neutral as I was doing the breakdown. It's just not a good movie. I did enjoy some elements of it and there was the backbone of a decent story in there, but the final result was very unfortunate. Glad you had fun watching it with your brother. I bet that was a hoot!
Richard Parker was on a assignment as CIA agent and was recruited by Nick Fury. That's why he wasn't there during his wife pregnancy n Peter's birth.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing that. Love that backstory!
@@AbitofEverything4U In Marvel comics Richard and Mary Parker was CIA agents. You have read comics about Madame Web and Peter Parker to get the understanding of Madame Web movie.
Yeah, I haven't read some of the newer Madame Web comics, but I did read all of her earliest appearances. But I do like how they were tying into the Andrew Garfield storyline with Richard and Mary. Bummer they didn't leave the MW film tying into his Spider-Man. Sigh.
Dude, I salute you for even watching Madame Web. You are a much stronger man than I am.
LOL! It was quite a chore, tbh. All I kept seeing were more and more issues and more and more wasted opportunity. Sigh.
"There will be lots of Spoilers"
Shiver me timbers 😅😂😂
lol...sorry, I just gotta say that or someone will comment saying "you didn't tell me there would be spoilers". But yeah, pretty obvious this is a spoiler review.
2:57 tell me those ain't the Raimi eyes squished together
ikr? Sigh. So, so very bad.