For anyone that is interested, there is now a Discord server for folks that want to chat on the MCU: discord.gg/r7Y3FyNBk4. There are over 150 members so far. Love to have you join the conversation!
Thank u very much for making this video, it was helpful, because I was not able to sleep thinking what these are, canon or not, or is it something else
Ah, very good addition. Yes, that's a great connection between Netflix and Dr. Strange. Thx for watching and adding your feedback. Really appreciate it!
If I remember correctly the same prison Luke Cage was in is also the same where Justin Hammer and Trevor Slattery were held. There may have been other occupants of that prison in there that I'm not remembering right now too.
Another reference to the MCU is in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: In an academy they have a memorial to fallen S.H.I.E.L.D. Members and the first name on there is James Buchanan Barnes.
@@AbitofEverything4U from what I remmeber of S7 the plot with Sousa was that he was going to be killed by Hydra and become the first honored agent or something
Another smaller thing. The actor who played the villain Blackout in AoS appeared in Captain Marvel as a bartender and the film’s producer made a comment that it was the same character. It was more of a joke but it’s worth bringing into the discussion.
Excellent addition to the list. Great catch! Yeah, they really worked hard to include so many big and small connections between the shows and the greater MCU. Pretty amazing. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I just hope that The Defenders show stay MCU Canon, I'm still really upset at the higher ups at Marvel Studios for never giving a heads up to the people working at Agents Of Shield because of what happened during Infinity War and Engame
That entire disconnect was because the TV and movies were separate departments. When Ike perlmutter was fired the studio reconfigured and feige became president of marvel entertainment instead of just marvel studios
Yeah, it was definitely the two departments which made it a tricky situation. But I'm still surprised there wasn't more of a desire to connect things together. Oh well, they did a decent job overall, but could have been so much more.
@@christopherlee8989 Spot on analysis. Still so strange that someone above the two departments didn't demand that they work together better. Oh well, still got some great connections anyway.
I love the effort you guys put in to compile as many references as you could. I do want to point out one Incredible Hulk reference missed from Agents of SHIELD. At one point, Coulson tells Agent Ward "If you endanger an operation or if anyone gets hurt, I'll reassign you to Barrow, Alaska, and you'll spend the rest of your years pulling the night shift guarding Blonsky's cryo-cell."
This Blonsky comment is actually quite interesting because we can paint a timeline of what happened to this character considering what we know so far. After the Incredible Hulk he was taken by Shield and put in the cryo cell, then after the Hydra uprising he was either released and then recaptured or the government decided to transfer him and the other Shield captives to the Damage Control prison where he remained until SheHulk.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Fitz was the one who invented the "Mouse Hole", which is the device that Fury used to escape his vehicle at the beginning of Winter Soldier, and I believe Maria Hill uses it later too.
Ah, now that's a great deep cut! You are indeed the first to mention it. Excellent addition to the list! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
There’s also the connection to Agents of shield where Ghost Rider uses Doctor Strange Portals and the Darkhold is also in that season. Also Fitz uses Pym shrinking tech to time travel and a mini Mobius Strip. And I’m Pretty sure Daisy (Quake) works for Sword by the end of the series. 👍🏼
Great connections with the Darkhold and time travel. I was never sure if Daisy worked for SWORD or not. I believe the TV shows were not allowed to mention SWORD, but I still always assumed that's where she was. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U no worries my brother and keep up the great videos, they are so helpful and enjoyable I love talking in depth about the mcu with other like mind folks. 👍🏼
I'm really glad you made this video. Genuinely tons of work put in and it brings attention to the very real connections between the shows and the movies. Personally I hope it all stays canon.
Thanks for the positive feedback. Was alot of fun putting the vid together. And I agree, I would love for it to all stay canon. Hopefully we'll get a firm answer at some point soon. Thx for watching!
For Daredevil I remember there being a throwaway line in Season 1. When Karen (or Elektra? Can't remember who but I know it was a woman) saw Matt's apartment and asked how he could afford such a big apartment by himself, he said the invasion in the first Avengers movie (he doesn't say all that outright, he just calls it "the incident") made housing in that area dirt cheap. And in JJ, Jessica was threatened to be sent to the Raft after killing Kilgrave in season 1, until she was saved by her lawyer. Also, Trish ended up getting sent there at the end of season 3 iirc.
Good point about "the incident". There are lots of references to it throughout the Defenders series. And I did indeed forget to mention Trish being sent to the raft in JJ S3. Great additions to the list! Thanks so much for watching the vid and leaving your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Yeah the incident was a big deal in Daredevil because it's thanks to that that Fisk managed to become a big fish. Also, in the Daredevil series they even mentioned Captain America by name at one time and they had Fisk's lackey mention Iron Man and Thor.
Very good point. Yes, I think that was intentional and is another excellent tie between the Netflix shows and the greater MCU. Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
I also think that the change of tailor and colors is consistent with what we saw on Daredevil season 3. The change of tailer was even addressed in this video, but Matt could have decised to change color after Bullseye tarnished the red suit reputation.
A few more references: in AoS season 4, Coulson gets stuck in the mirror dimension from Doctor Strange, and the device Fitz uses at the end of season 7 is the same device from the time heist in Endgame
Some other references i remember. * Coulson puts Skye in a bunker in AOS s2 which once held the Hulk * We see Maria Hill on the phone with Pepper specifically working for STARK industries after the collapse of Shield. * Mack or Coulson mention an Asgardian in New York in season 5, which is obviously a reference to Ragnarok. * Ruby Hale has the same weapon/similar weapon to Nakia * S7 features the Quantum Realm and the Endgame time travel rules * Jessica Jones Season 3 has Trish going to the raft at the end
Amazing video on a topic that's always perplexed and fascinated me. I remember the hype around the shows when they first started and all the ways they connected to the MCU. The direct connections in Agents of SHIELD with the guest stars, the references to "the incident" in Daredevil along with the various Avengers references throughout the Netflix shows, HAMMER tech in Luke Cage (and Iron Man being referenced in Method Man's "Bulletproof Love" tribute to Luke Cage in the show!), but even then I didn't quite catch all the connections and references 'til now. My favorite references were always the way The Avengers (2012) was a big factor into why the landscape of Hell's Kitchen was the way it was in Daredevil (big DD fan) and of course the Incredible Hulk reference in the newspaper (also big Hulk fan). Great video & channel! ❤
Yes, I agree the connection of how the Kingpin rose to power due to the battle of NY in Avengers was so well done. I love how hard they worked to tie everything together so well. Extremely well done on their part! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Daisy and matt also went to the same orphange together so maybe in daredecul born again we might get a mention or a dlashback or hopfefully a appearance by her
WOW, I never realised that Gideon Malik was in Avengers. Same with Blake. Amazing. Thank, man, your videos amplified the MCU for me. I love the Agents of SHIELD show and this is so significant to me. Another mention on the show was de cryogenic cell of Abomination, that, now, we know that is also canon, and it was mentioned on the show. I loved The Incredible Hulk and all the times I heard that line it gave me hope to see him again. And it happen. Simply beautiful.
Yeah, I thinks it's awesome that Gideon Malik started in Avengers and then had a huge role in Agents of SHIELD. That was amazing. And Blake going from the one shots to AoS was great as well. Such a cool character. And excellent point about the abomination call out in AoS. I should have mentioned that. So glad you enjoy AoS. I loved each and every season!
A passing reference to the raft in jessica jones??? Dude, patsy walker ended up in the raft that's the whole resolution to the conflict and it's one of the most clear and important tie ins
Excellent point! I guess I was just making sure to tie in Jessica Jones to the greater MCU so I only mentioned the one reference but you are right, I should have included the Patsy Walker reference over the one I chose as Patsy's reference was much more significant. Great comments! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
As always, phenomenal video! Just wanted to mention some other notable connections between the MCU and shows released under Marvel Television. - Jessica Jones actually features The Raft more than that little reference. At the end of the series, after Trish Walker goes on her crazed "hero-ing" rampage, she is incarcerated in The Raft on multiple charges. - In the Peter's To-Do List short (or One-Shot? It's never been called one so I don't know), Peter fights the Manfredi Crime Family, who appear in Season 2 of Agent Carter. Seems like they've been reigning the crime world for a LONG time. - In a small throwaway line, the Agent Carter show mentions GLK&H, or at the time Goodman, Kurtzberg & Holliway, which is the law firm She-Hulk works at. We see that these organizations are indeed the same as GLK&H is still owned by someone with the Holliway name (Holden Holliway).
BTW, I have a suggestion, even if we don’t know what Marvel will do with these shows on considering them canon or not, I would love to see you doing a timeline video, showing and explaining where these series fits beetween the movies, and in what year/month 😁
@@timprimetal5380 Then you will like the video I'm hopefully dropping today, or tomorrow at the latest, as I am tackling the first of the Marvel TV timelines...the Defenders shows. Hope you enjoy it!
I really hope they keep those shows canon... but I have a feeling that not all of them will have this luck (Inhumans 👀), and some others will have a soft reboot (like recasting some characters). But it’s just an opinion... based on all I’ve been hearing lately, there are big chances of Daisy Johnson appearing in Secret Invasion, that would be insanely incredible! Another point that makes the canon of these shows difficult is the fact that literally nobody referenced the existence of the Inhumans in the MCU, they even made Kamala a mutant to avoid this...
I'd argue Inhumans is already more cannon than AoS. Anson Mount's Blackbolt in MoM. Agent Carter (the show) is even more cannon than AoS. With James D'Arcy's Jarvis in Endgame. So they're obviously picking and choosing what makes the cut. And if I'll be real, Daisy might be the only thing I'd keep in tact in the MCU. I'd put everyone else in like May and Mack, but I'd definitely give them better characters to play. I guess Fitz and Simmons can stay the same too lol
@@nigelplumley8188 You raise some good points about the Inhumans. And Agent Carter seems very well connected. I'm curious to see what they decide to do next with all of the characters.
Great vid. I try to keep the shows canon in my head too. One major hurdle is in Luke Cage, I remember he once made a throwaway reference to President Obama who wasn’t President in the MCU
Yeah, would be nice for as many of the shows as possible to remain canon. I hope Marvel feels the same. Oh, and as for the presidents, I did a vid on that which you might find interesting: th-cam.com/video/6gD3NUwb6yQ/w-d-xo.html. That's alot more to that topic than I ever would have guessed. But anyway, thanks so much for watching the video on the ties between the shows and movies and sharing your thoughts on it. Really appreciate it!
I really hope they keep the Defenders stuff canon. They don't break continuity (or atleast stretch the limits of it). And despite some of the shows not being as loved as other's it's not like the characters are unsalvagable. A soft reboot or appearances in other projects could work just fine
Yes, I would love to see the Defenders-verse staying canon. I wonder about Iron Fist and also some of the other characters like Elektra. Perhaps those will be stumbling blocks if Feige wants to redo their stories. But we'll just have to see. I do agree that the Defenders have the best chance of staying 616 canon. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great video! Thanks for all the time you put into these. Your videos are always a treat. As a Marvel TV show fan, I definitely hope that all the shows would remain 100% canon (even Inhumans and Helstrom lol). However, I wouldn't mind if something similar to option 2 happened, where they retcon some elements of the shows, but most of it remains canon. Or in 616, something very similar happened, but it was slightly different to fit the main timeline better. Perhaps the Runaways defeated Morgan without time-travel, and perhaps AoS S6 & 7 happened, but the blip is mentioned and the world looks more bleak, etc. Most of the other "problems" with the show aren't really issues with continuity, they can be easily explained if you're willing to wiggle a little. The main thing I see being good about retconning or removing things from canon is certain characters can be reused that were killed off or used in an unsatisfying way. A few examples being Absorbing Man, Ben Urich, Hellcat, Iron Fist (although I thought he was great past his first season with better writing), Madame Masque, and Jigsaw. Otherwise, it won't be as satisfying for most of these characters to return if their backstory in these shows is dropped. Then they wouldn't really be the same characters anymore. Hopefully with Daredevil and any other characters they bring back, they're brought back with light references to their old shows where you don't HAVE to watch the shows to understand the characters, but they would enhance the their backstories and your experience as a viewer.
Excellent commentary. Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head. I suspect the reason some things may move into the multiverse is to allow for the reintroduction of the characters with new backstories. We'll have to see how things go, but I could imagine that being a driving force behind any decision made. Thx so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Your comments were spot on and I enjoyed reading them all!
I think my favorite connections are the subtle ones from Helstrom; a replica of Sersi’s dagger from “Eternals” is in the Blood’s possession, a mention of the Sokovia Accords in a newspaper (that alludes to the GRC from Falcon and the Winter Soldier), and also the implication that the rise of demonic possession in the past year is a result of the massive amounts of deaths from the Snap.
Oh wow, I totally forgot about the mention of the deaths from the snap and the Sersi dagger references. Excellent additions to the list. It really is amazing how connected they made the Marvel TV world. Subtle easter eggs are sometimes more enjoyable than the ones that are in your face, per se. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Technically, Helstrom doesn’t mention the deaths from the snap. But it does say that in the past year, requests for exorcisms have grown exponentially. That could easily be a consequence of the snap, all the bad people killed by the Snap becoming demons and possessing the living in order to return to Earth.
@@AbitofEverything4UI can see this theory working because of all of the causalities caused because of the Snap. From people who were in hospitals,trains,cars & planes even people like Sorcerer's & Witch's.
I loved Marvel's Agents of SHIELD and Marvel's Agent Carter. The shows don't get enough love these days. Mainly because they'd probably confuse average theater audiences. "What the heck is going on? Who is this Coulson guy? Who's this woman that makes the Earth Shake? Who are these 1940s Secret Agents?" I remember watching New Episodes of AOS & AC every Tuesday/Friday Night when they aired. I'd always make a bowl of Popcorn, grab a can of Grape Soda, and sit back and relax.
Yes, I agree...I loved watching AoS and AC and I remember in 2020 when the pandemic shut everything down for Marvel...well, except for AoS S7. It was such a treat to have something from Marvel to watch each week and it was a perfect sendoff for the show. Both AoS and AC deserve alot of love. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Love the convo with fellow MCU Fans!
I'm sure the theater audiences who hadn't seen all the movies or Disney+ shows would get confused too. Imagine someone seeing Avengers: Endgame as the first Marvel movie he's ever seen. He'd be very confused about everything, wouldn't he?
@@AbitofEverything4U Oh just wait. Kevin feige specifically said only one name in an interview when asked about the shows and connections to the MCU. Hellstrom, Kevin said he wants a "more comic accurate" version of the character than the show had done. And with Mephistos special releasing in October I'd be hard pressed if he isn't introduced in that. I was brain storming with some other people as to how he will be brought in and I had my money on M.o.M but I wasn't fully disappointed after getting to see Mt. Wondegor and the carvings of Keepers and Glyphs that showed up on the casket of a Keeper in Hulu's version. We now assume the Mephisto special is going to be a period piece set in the 70s and begins at Mephistos decision to create an offspring to help him conquer earth. So I'm guessing that we will get introduced to the Caretaker, Damion and Satana Hellstrom, Victoria Hellstrom, and Mephisto. And it could be where we would see Sasha baron Cohen's version of Mephisto appear. Sry I wrote a lot. I love the Hellstorm family My favorite story has to go to either 'Spirits of Vengeance War at the gates of hell' or Damnation where Mephisto takes over Las Vegas
Excellent catch! Yes, the Darkhold was a very cool tie between the shows. Thanks for pointing that out. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback!
I finally managed to watch this video too and yeah I love how you entered deeper on this topic. I personally prefer option 1, first because they actually sold us those shows as MCU canon and I honestly wouldn't have watched them otherwise, so for them to backpedal this way it would really upset me, but also I love how these shows complement the movies by adding to or exploring more the lore of this universe. I also think that all those instances that can be seen as inconsistencies can actually be explained really easily when you come down to it. Also, one important thing to note about Agent Carter is that its production involved both Feige and the Russo brothers, and considering the appearance of Jarvis in Endgame, I'm pretty sure they still consider at least this show canon. Anyway, the funny thing is that there are even more connections from the shows to the movies (like for example AoS season 3 mentioning the events of AntMan, AoS season 7 using Endgame time travel, Trish and Diamond Back from the Defenders shows being held at the Raft), but it is actually even more interesting how there are even more connections from the Marvel Studios stuff to the shows that you (probably for time reasons) missed. Just to name an interesting few (but there's even more): - The Black Widow movie, during its flashbacks to the Red Room, shows the exact same training that they show in the Red Room flashbacks from Agent Carter. - Shows like Ms Marvel and Falcon and Winter Soldier have background props that mention things that tie in with AoS. - Spiderman Far From Home shows us that Shield is still up and running and that it is working with Saber (which may be hinted at during the AoS season 7 finale). - In AntMan we see active Hydra agents that would only make sense in the context of what was happening during AoS at that time. - Captain Marvel actually has many subtle connections to AoS. First of all, when the Kree take Carol Danvers, they inject her with Kree blood in order to heal her injuries (which is basically a lower version of Project Tahiti) and then they remove her prior memories, which we saw in AoS is a required step after Tahiti to prevent the user from going insane. Also, they used a device to keep her powers in check which is the exact same Kree superpowers inhibitor that was firstly seen in AoS season 5. - In AoS we see Sif going around in various missions on behalf of Odin, aka Loki at that time. We know from Ragnarok that Loki kept Thor and his friend occupied elsewhere to prevent them from discovering his disguise, which is also what saves Sif since she didn't return to Asgard in time. - The Wakanda Files book talks again about the Project Theta helicarier.
Oh wow...those are even more awesome connections. Thanks so much for adding those to the list. I may need to do an update to this vid at some point and I'll be sure to include all of those. Will be very interesting to see which direction Marvel goes with all the ties. I suspect that either Quake, Ghost Rider or Daredevil's next appearance will give us some big clues Thanks so much for your incredible feedback. Really appreciate it!
I really hope they decide to keep AoS seasons 1-5 canon to the mcu. I feel that up to that point the show really worked really well together with the movies.
Yes, those AoS seasons meshed very well with the greater MCU. Will be very interesting what happens with those seasons. I did a recent video on Quake returning to the MCU and so we may find out sooner than later what Marvel's plans will be!
Helstrom also featured a Roxxon gas station in the 1rst or 2nd episode. Daisy/Quake referenced Micro from Punisher. Also Dogs of Hell bikers were beat up by Lady Sif on AoS, then later killed by Punisher.
@@AbitofEverything4U Endgame was full of Easters eggs of the MCU. So beautiful to put one for the fans who saw the series. One of my favourite Endgame easter eggs.
You did indeed ask for this. It was a fantastic suggestion and it's been on my mind ever since. Took awhile to get everything together, but really appreciate you suggesting it!
Ah, great addition to the list. Man, so many great connections between the TV shows and the movies. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, another interesting thing is how the Agents of SHIELD finale retroactively changed the show's time travel to work with what Endgame established
Another small show to film connection is the cellist mentioned by Tony and Pepper in The Avengers as having recently dated Coulson. We meet the cellist in AOS.
There's also another connection between AOS and Daredevil. Both Daisy Johnson and Matt Murdock spent time in their childhoods at St. Catherine's Orphanage. Given their ages they might have been there at the same time and knew each other.
I'd like to remark that in shehulk, Madisynn mentioned she made a deal with a demon in another dimension. Also ghost riders last appearance in agents of shield is in the dark dimension. And it just so happens that the guy who sends her there is called Donny Blaze. It's a weak connection but if ghost rider emerges from Madisynn in the future, it wouldn't break agents of shield cannon while not adhering to that story either because Johnny blaze hasn't been used yet
Ooh, I forgot to mention, Blackout’s actor played a bartender in Captain Marvel. Victoria Alonzo implied in a Reddit AMA that he was playing the same character. That means Blackout, Edwin Jarvis, Daredevil, Kingpin and Black Bolt have all debuted on the TV side and made the jump to the movies.
Yeah, I think that's very cool that they have said the Blackout actor is the same character in AoS and Captain Marvel. It would make his aging seem abit off, but it's still a really fun connection, none-the-less!
Excellent feedback! Yes, I agree, I am a fan of images more than words. Thanks for that great suggestion and also thx for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Another iron fist reference to MCU is sometime in the show someone says something along the lines of“you’re like that incredible green guy”. I don’t remember the context or who said it but I remember it was said
Nice deep dive reference. Yes, I love how they don't actually call him the Hulk, but "the green guy" and they call the battle of NY "the incident". It's a great way to avoid looking like a total MCU name drop for name drop's sake, and instead makes the reference feel unique to the Netflix shows. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The biggest black mark against the continued canonicity of Agents of Shield is that you’d think at some point somebody would’ve mentioned the totally-not-mutants popping up all around the world. That’s not just some small inconsequential event that can be handwaved, it’s literally world-altering.
Yes, one of my biggest concerns about the AoS show being canon is the Inhumans outbreak. That just didn't make sense that it wasn't mentioned in any of the movies. In fact, I did a video on the entire inhumans situation, as it was quite a mess. You can find it here if interested: th-cam.com/video/o_k7z97xd94/w-d-xo.html. Anyway, will be interesting to see what the fate of the AoS canon status will be. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U wasn’t expecting a reply, I’ll give that video a watch. Either way I’ve mostly accepted, as an enjoyer of the show, that AoS is just officially-sanctioned fan fiction of the MCU with strictly one-way continuity nods.
Yeah, my guess is that Marvel will continue to keep dodging the canonicity question for Agents of SHIELD but will also try to avoid contradicting the show. I would much rather they just give us an answer, but they seem to like to straddle the fence on this issue. So that would leave Agents of SHIELD in a place where fans can watch it if desired, but that it won't be necessary viewing. Probably the smartest stance for Marvel to take, I guess.
To be fair, the inhumans outbreak was more contained than it seemed, especially with time moving forward, but one can say that the Vision comment on the rise of superpowered individuals in Civil War wouldn't make sense if you don't factor the inhumans in (as well as the other tv shows).
Canon or not, I hope that the casts of all these shows get another chance. They all deserve it and I think some of them will shine way better under the right story and direction (Iron Fist, Inhumans and Helstrom)
Agreed! Whether they appear before Secret Wars or whether they formally join the MCU as part of Secret Wars, I'd love to see the same cast again. And I think Feige will do that as much as possible. Bringing back Charlie and Vincent was awesome for DD and Kingpin. So hopefully we'll see that trend continue. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
I'm currently making a chart of how all the MCU films and Disney + shows connect with each other (however insignificant some may be) and if I ever get round to adding these shows I'll be sure to stop back off here.
One of the connections that's tied with both lines of the greater MCU and the shows. Wanda Vision, Agents of Shield, Runaways and of cause Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness which will lead into Agatha All Along which would be my guess. And that connection would be The Darkhold. So here's my suggestion can we explore the ties of The Darkhold and see what we can find and maybe things we never thought we would find?
Good point! MoM explained that the Darkhold books are just copies of the original text at Mount Wundagore. So we can therefore have different looking Darkhold versions, which makes all of them canon. Would indeed be a fun vid to look at all the times the Darkhold has shown up in the MCU!
Yes, I think you hit it on the head. I think they will go with option 2 or 3 and that the multiverse gave them the perfect way to still allow things to be canon, but just not canon to 616. Excellent commentary. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
Another connection Coulson mentions Hydra made this blue soap to spy on people in the season 4 Framework storyline. That soap then showed up in a WandaVision commercial.
I feel like Option 3 might be likely, with some shows/connections/elements still remaining canon, like Daredevil’s origins will stay the same and other origin stories might stay the same with slight alterations.
Yes, I think that's a great assessment of the situation. I suspect we will see Marvel head in the direction of Option 3, perhaps due to wanting to provide a new take on characters like Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, etc. And I also agree with you that much of the backstory will remain the same for characters like Daredevil. Great feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Awesome video... I think Agents of SHIELD is already established as non-616 canon. In the final episode, we see the Triskelion where it should already have been destroyed as we see in the Captain America: the Winter Soldier.
Interesting observation! I missed that, but that does seem like it was a mistake. I wonder if they implied the Triskelion has been fixed? But that seems strange. I do hope that the timeline book coming out later this year will go into what is canon and what isn't. That would be great if so. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
@@MomentoHeroico I think they might just be cleaning up the wreckage in Homecoming, but I do agree that it seems it was rebuilt by 2020 in Agents of SHIELD.
Stronger case for AoS and Runaways: The Darkhold. Major plotline for most of season 4 in AoS and the primary reason for season 3 in The Runaways. I know it's slightly different in WandaVision and MoM but still has ties to the MCU as a whole.
I agree, that's a great addition to the list. And I think in MoM they explained that there are multiple copies of the Darkhold so that's why it can look different in each case. Great feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I wonder if you could make a video discussing Legion and Gifted's canoncity within the greater MCU multiverse. Just wanting to know basically if I should watch them in my X-men series rewatch prior to Deadpool 3, not to mention potentially including the 2000s Fantastic four and Fant4stic.
Great suggestions. I almost talked about Legion and Gifted, but I can't quite tell if they are even canon to the X-verse. I do think a video about those shows is a good idea though. And I could discuss the FF4 movies a well. Excellent idea!
My idea is, in SDCC 2023, Secret Invasion was already out, if quake or agent coulson appeared in the show, they should announced that Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D & the other shows are officially canon and they should tell where the show in the phases, examples: Daredevil, Jessica Jones & Luke Cage are from Phase 2 That will be so awesome if they do that Fingers cross if will happen 🤞
Yes, would be great to see Quake again. And it would be great if we got a harmonized timeline showing us how everything relates to each other. We can only hope. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
My guess would be during the 1 year time jump fury contacted daisy asked for her help because he trused coulson and he mentions her name in the 2nd episode of season 1
Can’t believe you forgot to mention the Darkhold that thing shows up in Agents of Shield, Runaways, Wandavision and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Yeah, great point. I did mention the Darkhold in my earlier video on the Pre-D+ shows, but left it out this time. I def. agree, I should have included it. It's a very cool tie. And it was explained really well in MoM that the book can look differently as each of them are different copies. Great catch and thanks fore bringing it up!
Yes, that's a very distinctive picture. I remember it from my first watch of Daredevil as well. What amazing series. Really looking forward to DD: Born Again!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh yeah, me too. By the way, I bought all 3 seasons of the show, the first 2 on blu-ray from amazon and the 3rd on dvd somewhere else
@@AbitofEverything4U the only problem with the third series DVD thought, the first episode took a while to start playing, but that’s ok, it still worked
In Helstrom, Ana and her friend and colleague Chris Yen run an auction business in San Francisco. Now San Francisco is the city where Ant-Man (Scott Lang) and his colleagues lives and Ana and Chris didn't mention about them.
Yeah, I suspect Helstrom is the least likely show to be canon in the MCU. I've even seen conflicting reports regarding whether it was ever intended to be canon in the first place. So I suspect that Feige doesn't consider it canon, but just my guess. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that they're mostly going to leave the canonicity completely open. I think their best option is not completely addressing the shows and just letting the audience decide for themselves what is and isn't canon. I'm very confident that Born Again is going to mostly be a soft reboot - light links to the original 3, but the audience can deicide what happened in the past while feige and the creative teams instead focus on what the future is
Excellent commentary. That is definitely how Marvel has been proceeding so far. I think where we may get a firm answer is when Marvel wants to use characters that were introduced in the Netflix shows but wants to go a different direction. For example, if they want to redo Elektra, or Iron Fist, or Bullseye. Also, for AoS they may want to redo Ghost Rider. So at some point I do think Marvel will tip their hand on things. But we'll see. Maybe they can keep tiptoeing around it for even longer. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
Personally, I just want everything to be canon, even if there's continuity errors, and then just tell the fans to determine how everything goes together and make theories for how the continuity errors could make sense since the fans are probably going to do that anyway. I wish most things had that approach. Or at the least say everything that doesn't contradict anything else is canon, so whatever can't work or conflicts with something else stays out, and everything that works and doesn't conflict stays in. Talking about what is and isn't canon usually annoys me with different franchises because it feels like people put too much focus on it and treat things they see as non-canon as something to be avoided at all costs even though there's still thought and effort that goes into it , so I kind of just wish creators would say everything is canon and have the fans make it make sense.
Very interesting perspective. I can definitely see the advantage to what you are saying. Granted, including everything can leave things confusing if there are direct contradictions between say one of the pre-D+ shows and the movies. But I also hate to have things written off as non-canon when they provide good entertainment as no one may watch them again if the are written off as non-canon. Lots to consider in this decision. Will be interesting to see where Marvel goes in the future as more characters from the pre-D+ shows are integrated into the greater MCU again.
Hey dude! I was wondering if you could help me with something I’ve been thinking about. You know the blue person in moon knight that they chopped the hand off of? Is that the same body seen in ms marvel? (Great vid btw)
For me, the varied styles, tones, and perspectives of the shows (as opposed to the samey look and feel of Marvel Studios’ productions) make the MCU feel so much bigger and more layered in my opinion.
Great comment. Yes, I really like the street-level feel of the Netflix shows and also the rich storytelling of Agents of SHIELD. Each show definitely adds to the overall MCU with it's look and feel. Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U it’s what got me into the MCU. It wasn’t Iron Man or Avengers, but Daredevil. Even the Netflix shows were unique. You had the Scorsese crime drama in Daredevil, the neo-noir thriller in Jessica Jones, the neo-blaxploitation in Luke Cage, and the Eastwood-esque drama in Punisher. I think Marvel Studios could learn a lot from the Netflix series in particular.
@@samkeller5823 Well said! I suspect you are far from alone in checking out the greater MCU due to first watching the Netflix shows. Just some absolutely amazing content. And DD S1 might be some of the best Marvel TV ever. So good!
Once again an wonderful video. Two questions-If Marvel saw your videos and was like “ hey this guy is great. Lets get him for our official timeline keeper”. What would be the first thing you do to fix the timeline? And second ( on topic with video) what character from these shows ( other than daredevil ) would you like to see appear in a Avenger’s movie?
Great questions. 1. What would I fix with the timeline... for sure the #1 thing is I would work with the creative teams to help them understand each entries place in the timeline. Gunn recently tweeted that Marvel doesn't even talk about timelines with the creative teams, which mystified me. It results in so much mis-information going out about where the movies/shows fall in the timeline, and that creates confusion and frustration for fans. But if you are asking for a specific thing I would fix...then I would move Thor: Love & Thunder from Oct 2025 to May 2025 in the D+ timeline. I believe it should be in 2025, but I don't like it so late in the timeline as it makes Groot's appearance look strange and it also means the Guardians were with Thor for way longer than we had initially assumed. I think that move doesn't hurt anything and solves alot of issues. Otherwise, I'm fine with the D+ timeline and don't understand all the hate it gets from some fans. 2. I would love to see the following characters from the pre-D+ shows appear, I guess in this relative order: Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Skye, and Ghost Rider. Hard to pick a favorite, as I want all 4 like yesterday. Thanks so much for watching and for leaving the great questions. Really appreciate it!
Was the scrull nick fury at the end of far from home talking about kree sleeper cells being open knowledge referring to the inhuman outbreaks in agents of shield? Inhumans are kree experimental weapons so certainly a Skrull would see them that way and I don't know what else he could be talking about.
Interesting...I've never heard that theory before, but I can see where you are going with it. Would be really cool if they make that tie at some point. Maybe in Secret Invasion we'll finally get the payoff for that line. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
My choice for what they do with the shows is option 2 I want them to make some of them canon (Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Defenders and Agents of Shield) whilst also keeping some things in a seperate universe, I feel this will keep most of the tv show fans happy and won't tie them down to all that much, and keeping the shows I listed as canon doesn't retcon anything and doesn't really ruin anything so its fine for them to stay canon (maybe some things in say AOS may need a small reworking but not much). I also feel they will go with this option is seems as if thats what they are gearing up to do with She Hulk, No Way Home and Hawkeye as you said referencing Daredevil and trying to tie into it so I hope they go with that option and O think they will.
Great commentary. Yes, I do think Option 2 would make the most amount of fans happy. Keep as much 616 canon as possible and let the rest be canon in the multiverse. I think we'll keep getting a better idea as things like DD: Born Again come out and we see how the Neflix DD shows are referenced. My only concern is if Marvel wants to redo some of the characters, such as Iron Fist, Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, etc. That will be the big test at that point. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really do appreciate it!
I think it’s much easier to adopt most of the defenders and some of sheild and put the rest in a multiverse pile and call it cannon because not only does it work well but I think it’s some of the few projects people are prepared to rewatch AND when marvel does their work right it doesn’t matter to rewatch it
Excellent feedback. Yes, I think the Defenders and the first few seasons of Agents of SHIELD are the likeliest to remain 616 canon and the rest will still have a home in the multiverse and some characters may even return during Secret Wars. Would be a fun way to bring back the characters people really like for one last appearance. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Not having a post snap focused agents of shield season was such a massive lost opportunity. Yes there are seasons which take place in that time period but it's just not mentioned due to issues with the studios. On the other hand the blip gives the movies some breathing space to have allowed all these plotlines from the shows to play out off screen without becoming too complicated before they are potentially brought into the more "official" content without too many strings.
Yes, I agree, it was a big loss for there to have been such a breakdown between Marvel TV and Marvel Studios and the issues around the blip are where they really came to the forefront. It will be interesting to see what Marvel does with Agents of SHIELD going forward. With Daisy supposedly returning in Secret Invasion, it won't be long before we find out! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great question. I should have brought that up in the video. My apologies about that. So the theory is that the original Darkhold was at Mount Wundagore, as we learned in Multiverse of Madness. So therefore all of the others we've seen were just copies. Thus, they can have a different look each time we see the Darkhold, as they are different copies. Not a perfect answer, but I think it addresses the main issue with the book. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
I think and hope for option 3, all shows become their own cannon and 616 takes from it what they want. But not for the reason you may think! The feud between Loeb and Feige was infamous over creative direction. So while there's direct ties, it's still very muddy between the two. So the problem for me is not that I don't want the shows to exist and so they should be separated, It's that I like the shows so much I would rather their canonicity not be screwed with by 616. I want to still have the Runaways and Defenders and regardless of the direction that 616 takes I want to head canon the further adventures of the pre-Disney+ shows. So yeah, I would rather MCU take only what it wants without screwing with the plots of the shows. Like how frustrating would it be for you if all the character development was rolled back. For example Jessica's relationships. They (somewhat) improved as she delt with her external and internal issues and learned to find value in others. Now imagine Jessica shows up in the MCU and she's back to square one. Maybe it's unexplained or maybe it is but the easy answer is that the writers want people who didn't necessarily watch her show to see that character arc (even if it's treading old ground). I, personally, would find that infinitely frustrating if both were considered cannon to each other. To see any growth rolled back. But if they were in different universes I could see the MCU Jessica as a variant who hasn't had that development yet. I could see where the MCU takes it differently. And all the while I still have the Netflix version to fall back to unburdened by careless future shakeups.
Wow...that's some excellent commentary. I love your reasoning and agree 100%. I do think they will go with option #3 and you are convincing me that it may be for the best. I enjoyed reading all of that. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
I thinks its most likely 2. but i really wish it was 1, damn i didn't realize how much effort there was for the pre-Disney+ shows (not counting the netflix ones), really wish they become canon and they just fix the characters that we're made badly like Iron fist and Black Bolt!
Yeah, I'm with you on wanting everything to remain canon. It would be great if they could figure out how to do it. There was a ton of effort to connect everything. It's really amazing to see it all laid out in the video like that. I guess we'll have to see what Feige has in store. Hoping for the best! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Daredevil Born Again was far into production when She-Hulk episode 8 released. There's no way they use the music if they were discarding the netflix shows. Additionally, if Feige really wanted to move away from AoS, Jarvis would not have been in Avengers: Endgame. I think you can safely consider everything up to the time travel canon, and I will form my opinion on what to do w/ S6 and S7 when I've seen them. Pretty sure helstrom was decanonised, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger don't really matter, and Inhumans... eh, Anson Mount was asked back for MoM so there is that. We should be finding out this year with the book as well as hopefully Echo releasing in autumn, DD Born Again trailer, etc.
On Hellstrom, the creator did suggest it wasn't canon, but in the same interview he said that Helstrom takes place in its own corner of the MCU and would have crossed over with the planned Ghost Rider show which was supposed to be in-continuity with Agents of SHIELD. So it sounds like by "not canon" he actually meant, "won't crossover with the movies, and you won't need to watch anything else to follow its events". As for the others shows, I agree, I'd love to see the Netflix shows stay canon as well as much of Agents of Shield and Agent Carter as possible. On AoS, I fear Feige might want to redo Ghost Rider and not be beholden to S4. And at the end of S2, the Inhumans outbreak is weird due to it never being mentioned in the greater MCU. So it's just hard to predict what will happen. I agree, the timeline book should spell it out nicely. I sure hope we get some solid answers at that point. Excellent comments as always!
Everything the Agents did while time-travelling in Seasons 5 and 7 are alternate timelines per Endgame's rules. Everything they did in the present day is canon, even when nobody got snapped. I mean, the Snap did happen but the only S.H.I.E.L.D. agents who were affected were Nick Fury and Maria Hill. Coulson's whole team survived the Snap.
Yeah, I don't see option 1 happening. Would be very cool if they did #2 and kept the Netflix shows around in particular. Hopefully we'll find out soon what direction they choose. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Option 2 or 3 will probably be the most likely case. It's simply because of all of the contradictions that arose between Marvel Studios and TV productions as the seasons/films went by in terms of certain concepts. For example, time travel rules, SHIELD's status after Age of Ultron and Civil War, the snap, etc.
Right, I fear that things like the inhumans outbreak on the TV shows which is then never mentioned in the movies is a concern, as well as the examples you mention such as SHIELD's status, the snap, time travel etc. I also think Feige may want a new crack at characters like Ghost Rider and Iron Fist (as well as others), and so de-canonizing the entire set of shows may give him the most freedom. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The time travel rules kept changing after Endgame. S.H.I.E.L.D. still existed in Spider-Man: Far From Home (Peter got his Night Monkey suit from a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent), and the Snap vanished people randomly and indiscriminately so the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. cast was lucky to not lose anyone in the Snap. Though, the fact that the Snap was never mentioned in the show was weird, that doesn't take the show out of the MCU.
@@SeanWheeler100 Yeah, the last of mention of the snap was weird, but of course it was due to the writers not being aware of it, so it makes sense, even if it's a bummer
Hey A bit of Everything! Amazing video! I really hope that they go with option one as well and just keep them all canon, but like you said, I think they are going to go with option three. I used to think that these shows weren't canon. I just thought of them as Marvel stories that happened somewhere. The reasons I thought that they weren't canon was because 1) some of the shows like the Netflix ones and Runaways and others were very tonally different than the MCU and 2) because of the three different rules of time travel in these shows. But then I realized that both of these can be explained. 1) There is no reason that the tone matters anymore especially after phase 4. In phase 4 we got a spy thriller, a comedy, a black and white horror project, a sitcom, a more kid friendly show and a bunch of other genres so why can't there be stuff like the Netflix shows too? 2) The time travel thing can be explained by two arguments. The first one is that what they use for time travel depends on what the rules are. For example in agents of shield season 5, they time travel using the monolith and it creates what I call the Harry Potter 3 effect where they were always there and nothing can change that. In Runaways, Chase creates his machine that is very different than the ones that the Avengers use and so that one creates what I call the disappear effect where they disappear if something is changed. But in agents of shield season 7, they use quantum travel, as Fitz explains, like the Avengers did so that created an alternate timeline. So quantum travel creates a different timeline while the other ways have their own rules. The second explanation of how all the time travel works kinda adds onto the first and it is pulled out of an MCU movie. In Doctor Strange when Steven is messing with time and Wong and Mordo catch him, Mordo says, "Temporal manipulations can create branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings. Spatial paradoxes! Time loops!" This line shows that there are more ways that time travel can work than just branch timelines. Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts on this. Again, great video!
Great feedback. Yeah, I have gone back and forth on whether I wanted the pre-D+ shows to be 616 canon or not. I watched them all and loved every minute (well, other than Iron Fist S1...ugh!) and so ultimately I'd like them to remain canon. I fear that they won't remain canon, however, due Feige wanting to be freed up for new storytelling with the characters in the shows, such as Ghost Rider. Regarding time travel, yeah, I think that AoS S5 could work as you explain, or could work in that when they returned from the future, they created a branch. If they created a branch, it could even address the lack of a better Infinity War tie-in, as perhaps Thanos didn't win in the branch. As for S7, I think that Fitz's time travel works very well with Endgame....at least it does as long as they created a branch each time they appeared in the past. So when they grabbed Sousa, for instance, they didn't necessarily say it caused a branch, but it very well could have, and then it meshes with Endgame. As for Runaways, I honestly don't know how to make that fit. Other than closed loops like Ms. Marvel's time travel, I don't like the butterfly effect and that's what happened in that episode. Sadly, it's also what happened several times in the X-men/Deadpool movies (i.e. Days of Future Past and the stuffed animal in DP2). So perhaps they will address this in DP3. Would be great if they find a way to make it all work. But I personally like the branch logic so much better and I don't have a way to make Runaways work as I hope Chase couldn't find a way to break the rules laid out in Endgame. I just don't like butterfly effect stories. Otherwise, someone could just keep coming from the future and re-writing things all the time. But Endgame made it so that time travel doesn't keep messing with the main timeline. FYI, I did do a video on time travel in the MCU, if you haven't see it. I don't touch on Runaways, but do go into my theories on branching in general. You can find it here, if interested: th-cam.com/video/25tUip5y7Ss/w-d-xo.html. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah I totally agree with you! I still think Runaways is canon though and that the time travel can be explained. Also I did watch that time travel video. It was really good. So you don't like butterfly effect stories? Not even Back to the Future?🤨
Sorry, I should be more specific on butterfly stories. I do like them, but I like them better as a one and done. So Back to the Future worked for me. But to have time travel using the butterfly effect in a universe like the MCU means someone could just keep going back and re-writing the past over and over. It's basically whoever has the time travel machine last wins. But you are right, for a simple set of movies like Back to the Future or even the Terminator movies, I'm fine with it. Thanks for asking!
I’m watching all the titles of Marvel Television Already watched all the seasons of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter I’m about to finish the Defenders Saga (I was watching Iron Fist S2 when the notification of your video showed up 😂) And I’m loving everything, a complete rich world!
I doubt that keeping the other shows in canon would be too restrictive for Feige, considering they were only allowed to cover things the movie side had no plans on touching on. For instance, MODOK was planned to be the villain of _AoS_ S7, but the crew were told no because of his upcoming _Quantumania_ appearance.
Yeah, I am hoping Feige finds a way to keep everything canon. I just wonder if he decides to redo some of the characters, such as Iron Fist, Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, Morgan Le Fey, etc. We'll have to see what happens down the line. But I'm rooting for it all to remain canon. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Wasn't MODOK meant for series 4? With the Russian guy, think he was called The Superior or something, at least that's what the thingy said. He was going to become MODOK instead of having all those doubles.
Option 1. I sleep better knowing all of these shows are still MCU canon. As for the Fox shows The Gifted actually is canon to the X Men movies and takes place in the original timeline after Wolverine 2013 and before Days of Future past. And we know this because Blink (the pink mutant from DOFP appears in the series, as well as mentions the Sentinels) Legion however takes place in an alternate timeline just like Logan.
Yes, it would be great if they could keep everything canon. So many of those shows were top-notch TV. And thanks for the info about Gifted being between Wolverine and DOFP. So I assume that means it was re-written and eliminated from the timeline after Wolverine goes back in the past during DOFP? Seems like it, I guess. And I've heard that about Logan that it takes place in a totally different timeline but that seems strange to me. So it doesn't fit in any of the other timelines? Wild stuff. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
They could've made Inhumans canon by stating that it was in 838 and that the Black Bolt that died in Dr Strange 2 was the Black Bolt from the show. It would be a good way to acknowledge the show but also get rid of it entirely.
That's a really interesting thought. I agree, that would be a perfect way to make Inhumans part of the official timeline for at least the 838 universe. Very clever! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Oh wow, I forgot about that. Thanks for mentioning it. That's a really fun easter egg.... I mean that dude really gets around, even in other universes! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Yes, definitely worth a watch! S1 starts abit slow, but it really gets amazing by the end. And every season is good. It's so worth making it to S7, as it is a greatest hits of the first 6 seasons in a similar fashion to how Endgame brought back so many great memories of the Infinity Saga.
Yes, those were fantastic. Daredevil is one of the best Marvel TV shows out there for sure. And all of the Defenders shows are great. Thx for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Wow, the wait is finally over! I was looking forward to this video. If you remember any of my comments, you probably know my stance on this issue, or, more precisely, my opinion on what Marvel would do, most likely. I have really not much faith in them respecting the creations of another divisions like Marvel TV. I believe, neither of the shows would turn out as canon to 616. That'd be great to have a nerd orgasm seeing Feige officially fitting all of this into one continuity, but they don't really like working overtime. Some parts of Daredevil will be repeated, some casting choices will remain consistent, but that's it. Maybe it's just my way or coping with disappointment, but I don't expect the TV stuff merge with 616 at all. (And I personally think that some of the shows like Runaways and Inhumans simply don't deserve to share a universe with others, but it's just the matter of taste, I guess.)
As in the past, your commentary is spot on. I think that Marvel will go with option 3 and it will indeed be disappointing. I think you laid out the reasoning very clearly. The only mystery now is how long we have to wait before we get the official word. Sigh. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Always love reading them!
This was a great video! I’ve really been addicted to this channel and I’ve really enjoyed the content you’ve made over the past few months or so. If I could make a suggestion for a future video. It would be really cool if you made a video on how you would watch the MCU in order, mainly for people who are trying to get into the MCU, but don’t know what to watch, especially with the continuity strain of the Netflix shows, Agents of Shield, etc. I did a video on this on my own channel and would love to see your take on it!
Wow, your video is very detailed and was fun to watch. I do have a watch order but it doesn't include the Netflix shows yet. It's located on my google drive here: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1R_PrexMkTjYpQAraxlhzs2U5EPJEPioc. I also have a video mapping the phase 1-3 and then the phase 4 timelines: th-cam.com/video/atbURMDs8E0/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/wukRjemirdE/w-d-xo.html, if you're interested. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your comments. And again, nice work, on your video. Very entertaining!
I think the most likely to be 100% canon are the ABC shows and Netflix shows. The others might be canon adjacent but I can’t see them being incorporated unless someone has a really good idea
Agreed...Netflix and ABC are the most likely. Will be very interesting to see what Feige does down the road. I hope we learn sooner than later. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Yes, great point about Runaways time travel. In fact, that's a big reason I wonder if at least that particular episode will be considered non-canon going forward. It is so different from the Endgame rules that I don't know if there is a way to make it work in the MCU. But perhaps we'll get more answers from Marvel on that in the future. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
For anyone that is interested, there is now a Discord server for folks that want to chat on the MCU: discord.gg/r7Y3FyNBk4. There are over 150 members so far. Love to have you join the conversation!
Thank u very much for making this video, it was helpful, because I was not able to sleep thinking what these are, canon or not, or is it something else
I wonder how you don't have a lot of subscribers. Good luck sir, to gain more subscribers. I already subbed u
@@vedantsriram3746 Thanks so much for the support. Great to hear the video helped!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thank you very much for replying me sir. I am big fan of your channel and work!
@@vedantsriram3746 I really appreciate that! Thanks so much!
Another cool connection is that the same Hospital where Doctor Strange worked is the same one as Claire worked at in all the Defenders shows.
Ah, very good addition. Yes, that's a great connection between Netflix and Dr. Strange. Thx for watching and adding your feedback. Really appreciate it!
That's really cool, especially with doctor strange being an OG defender
If I remember correctly the same prison Luke Cage was in is also the same where Justin Hammer and Trevor Slattery were held.
There may have been other occupants of that prison in there that I'm not remembering right now too.
@@mds_mainyes, Seagate.
Another reference to the MCU is in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: In an academy they have a memorial to fallen S.H.I.E.L.D. Members and the first name on there is James Buchanan Barnes.
Excellent easter egg. Yes, I love that one. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Wasn't the first Sousa? Bucky wasn't part of SHIELD
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu Oh, well, now I guess I don't remember for sure. They might have honored Bucky for his time in WWII?
@@AbitofEverything4U from what I remmeber of S7 the plot with Sousa was that he was going to be killed by Hydra and become the first honored agent or something
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu Ah, okay!
Another smaller thing. The actor who played the villain Blackout in AoS appeared in Captain Marvel as a bartender and the film’s producer made a comment that it was the same character. It was more of a joke but it’s worth bringing into the discussion.
Excellent addition to the list. Great catch! Yeah, they really worked hard to include so many big and small connections between the shows and the greater MCU. Pretty amazing. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I just hope that The Defenders show stay MCU Canon, I'm still really upset at the higher ups at Marvel Studios for never giving a heads up to the people working at Agents Of Shield because of what happened during Infinity War and Engame
That entire disconnect was because the TV and movies were separate departments. When Ike perlmutter was fired the studio reconfigured and feige became president of marvel entertainment instead of just marvel studios
@@christopherlee8989 yeah, that's fair
Yeah, it was definitely the two departments which made it a tricky situation. But I'm still surprised there wasn't more of a desire to connect things together. Oh well, they did a decent job overall, but could have been so much more.
@@christopherlee8989 Spot on analysis. Still so strange that someone above the two departments didn't demand that they work together better. Oh well, still got some great connections anyway.
@@AbitofEverything4U is your name Russel Corey because you sound exactly like the TH-camr Russel Corey
I love the effort you guys put in to compile as many references as you could. I do want to point out one Incredible Hulk reference missed from Agents of SHIELD. At one point, Coulson tells Agent Ward "If you endanger an operation or if anyone gets hurt, I'll reassign you to Barrow, Alaska, and you'll spend the rest of your years pulling the night shift guarding Blonsky's cryo-cell."
Excellent reference! Thanks for watching and adding that to the list. Really appreciate it!
Also the bunker that Coulson leaves Daisy at once held the Hulk and you see where he tried to get out and punched into the wall.
@@darthrevan6713 Nice. Great addition to the list!
@@darthrevan6713
I may be misremembering, but wasn't it the same barn from the end of the Incredible Hulk movie?
This Blonsky comment is actually quite interesting because we can paint a timeline of what happened to this character considering what we know so far.
After the Incredible Hulk he was taken by Shield and put in the cryo cell, then after the Hydra uprising he was either released and then recaptured or the government decided to transfer him and the other Shield captives to the Damage Control prison where he remained until SheHulk.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Fitz was the one who invented the "Mouse Hole", which is the device that Fury used to escape his vehicle at the beginning of Winter Soldier, and I believe Maria Hill uses it later too.
Ah, now that's a great deep cut! You are indeed the first to mention it. Excellent addition to the list! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
There’s also the connection to Agents of shield where Ghost Rider uses Doctor Strange Portals and the Darkhold is also in that season. Also Fitz uses Pym shrinking tech to time travel and a mini Mobius Strip. And I’m Pretty sure Daisy (Quake) works for Sword by the end of the series. 👍🏼
Great connections with the Darkhold and time travel. I was never sure if Daisy worked for SWORD or not. I believe the TV shows were not allowed to mention SWORD, but I still always assumed that's where she was. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U no worries my brother and keep up the great videos, they are so helpful and enjoyable I love talking in depth about the mcu with other like mind folks. 👍🏼
Yes, the MCU is just so amazing and it's great to share my passion with other fellow MCU lovers!
@@AbitofEverything4U the dark hold was also in runaways season 3. Same book I think
@@pablosanchez7825 Excellent point. I do believe you are correct!
I'm really glad you made this video. Genuinely tons of work put in and it brings attention to the very real connections between the shows and the movies. Personally I hope it all stays canon.
Thanks for the positive feedback. Was alot of fun putting the vid together. And I agree, I would love for it to all stay canon. Hopefully we'll get a firm answer at some point soon. Thx for watching!
For Daredevil I remember there being a throwaway line in Season 1. When Karen (or Elektra? Can't remember who but I know it was a woman) saw Matt's apartment and asked how he could afford such a big apartment by himself, he said the invasion in the first Avengers movie (he doesn't say all that outright, he just calls it "the incident") made housing in that area dirt cheap.
And in JJ, Jessica was threatened to be sent to the Raft after killing Kilgrave in season 1, until she was saved by her lawyer. Also, Trish ended up getting sent there at the end of season 3 iirc.
Good point about "the incident". There are lots of references to it throughout the Defenders series. And I did indeed forget to mention Trish being sent to the raft in JJ S3. Great additions to the list! Thanks so much for watching the vid and leaving your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Yeah the incident was a big deal in Daredevil because it's thanks to that that Fisk managed to become a big fish.
Also, in the Daredevil series they even mentioned Captain America by name at one time and they had Fisk's lackey mention Iron Man and Thor.
Also Daredevils suit outside of the colour change was the exact design from the Netflix Show, which in it's self is a huge connection.
Very good point. Yes, I think that was intentional and is another excellent tie between the Netflix shows and the greater MCU. Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
I also think that the change of tailor and colors is consistent with what we saw on Daredevil season 3. The change of tailer was even addressed in this video, but Matt could have decised to change color after Bullseye tarnished the red suit reputation.
A few more references: in AoS season 4, Coulson gets stuck in the mirror dimension from Doctor Strange, and the device Fitz uses at the end of season 7 is the same device from the time heist in Endgame
Excellent additions. Yeah, loved that Fitz used the same basic tech that Endgame used. So cool!
Some other references i remember.
* Coulson puts Skye in a bunker in AOS s2 which once held the Hulk
* We see Maria Hill on the phone with Pepper specifically working for STARK industries after the collapse of Shield.
* Mack or Coulson mention an Asgardian in New York in season 5, which is obviously a reference to Ragnarok.
* Ruby Hale has the same weapon/similar weapon to Nakia
* S7 features the Quantum Realm and the Endgame time travel rules
* Jessica Jones Season 3 has Trish going to the raft at the end
Excellent additions! Thanks so much for watching and adding to the list of connections. You added some great ones. Really appreciate it!
Amazing video on a topic that's always perplexed and fascinated me. I remember the hype around the shows when they first started and all the ways they connected to the MCU. The direct connections in Agents of SHIELD with the guest stars, the references to "the incident" in Daredevil along with the various Avengers references throughout the Netflix shows, HAMMER tech in Luke Cage (and Iron Man being referenced in Method Man's "Bulletproof Love" tribute to Luke Cage in the show!), but even then I didn't quite catch all the connections and references 'til now.
My favorite references were always the way The Avengers (2012) was a big factor into why the landscape of Hell's Kitchen was the way it was in Daredevil (big DD fan) and of course the Incredible Hulk reference in the newspaper (also big Hulk fan).
Great video & channel! ❤
Yes, I agree the connection of how the Kingpin rose to power due to the battle of NY in Avengers was so well done. I love how hard they worked to tie everything together so well. Extremely well done on their part! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
In Agents Of Shield, Quake did mention The Punisher's Micro character.
Option 1
Ah, yes, good catch. Thanks for adding that. Appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!
Daisy and matt also went to the same orphange together so maybe in daredecul born again we might get a mention or a dlashback or hopfefully a appearance by her
@@jonathanmcintosh9258 That would be cool!
WOW, I never realised that Gideon Malik was in Avengers. Same with Blake. Amazing. Thank, man, your videos amplified the MCU for me. I love the Agents of SHIELD show and this is so significant to me. Another mention on the show was de cryogenic cell of Abomination, that, now, we know that is also canon, and it was mentioned on the show. I loved The Incredible Hulk and all the times I heard that line it gave me hope to see him again. And it happen. Simply beautiful.
Yeah, I thinks it's awesome that Gideon Malik started in Avengers and then had a huge role in Agents of SHIELD. That was amazing. And Blake going from the one shots to AoS was great as well. Such a cool character. And excellent point about the abomination call out in AoS. I should have mentioned that. So glad you enjoy AoS. I loved each and every season!
A passing reference to the raft in jessica jones??? Dude, patsy walker ended up in the raft that's the whole resolution to the conflict and it's one of the most clear and important tie ins
Excellent point! I guess I was just making sure to tie in Jessica Jones to the greater MCU so I only mentioned the one reference but you are right, I should have included the Patsy Walker reference over the one I chose as Patsy's reference was much more significant. Great comments! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
As always, phenomenal video! Just wanted to mention some other notable connections between the MCU and shows released under Marvel Television.
- Jessica Jones actually features The Raft more than that little reference. At the end of the series, after Trish Walker goes on her crazed "hero-ing" rampage, she is incarcerated in The Raft on multiple charges.
- In the Peter's To-Do List short (or One-Shot? It's never been called one so I don't know), Peter fights the Manfredi Crime Family, who appear in Season 2 of Agent Carter. Seems like they've been reigning the crime world for a LONG time.
- In a small throwaway line, the Agent Carter show mentions GLK&H, or at the time Goodman, Kurtzberg & Holliway, which is the law firm She-Hulk works at. We see that these organizations are indeed the same as GLK&H is still owned by someone with the Holliway name (Holden Holliway).
I love it! Yes, those are some excellent connections. Thanks so much for adding them. And thanks for watching. Really appreciate it!
BTW, I have a suggestion, even if we don’t know what Marvel will do with these shows on considering them canon or not, I would love to see you doing a timeline video, showing and explaining where these series fits beetween the movies, and in what year/month 😁
You want me to die an early death, don't you? But yeah, I've been asked about that alot. I need to do it. Would be very cool!
@@AbitofEverything4U I sure imagine how hard that is! Hahaha
Indeed!
I second this! The Wiki is helpful but it isn’t really that conducive to make a watch order out of it all
@@timprimetal5380 Then you will like the video I'm hopefully dropping today, or tomorrow at the latest, as I am tackling the first of the Marvel TV timelines...the Defenders shows. Hope you enjoy it!
I love that you cover ALL pre Disney shows because I find not many people do and god I love AoS 😂🤩
You are very welcome. Had alot of fun putting the video together. Thanks so much for watching!
I really hope they keep those shows canon... but I have a feeling that not all of them will have this luck (Inhumans 👀), and some others will have a soft reboot (like recasting some characters). But it’s just an opinion... based on all I’ve been hearing lately, there are big chances of Daisy Johnson appearing in Secret Invasion, that would be insanely incredible!
Another point that makes the canon of these shows difficult is the fact that literally nobody referenced the existence of the Inhumans in the MCU, they even made Kamala a mutant to avoid this...
Well said on all points. I completely agree with your analysis. And wouldn't it be so cool to see Daisy again!
I'd argue Inhumans is already more cannon than AoS. Anson Mount's Blackbolt in MoM. Agent Carter (the show) is even more cannon than AoS. With James D'Arcy's Jarvis in Endgame. So they're obviously picking and choosing what makes the cut. And if I'll be real, Daisy might be the only thing I'd keep in tact in the MCU. I'd put everyone else in like May and Mack, but I'd definitely give them better characters to play. I guess Fitz and Simmons can stay the same too lol
@@nigelplumley8188 You raise some good points about the Inhumans. And Agent Carter seems very well connected. I'm curious to see what they decide to do next with all of the characters.
Great vid. I try to keep the shows canon in my head too. One major hurdle is in Luke Cage, I remember he once made a throwaway reference to President Obama who wasn’t President in the MCU
Yeah, would be nice for as many of the shows as possible to remain canon. I hope Marvel feels the same. Oh, and as for the presidents, I did a vid on that which you might find interesting: th-cam.com/video/6gD3NUwb6yQ/w-d-xo.html. That's alot more to that topic than I ever would have guessed. But anyway, thanks so much for watching the video on the ties between the shows and movies and sharing your thoughts on it. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U just watched! You’re a step ahead lol. Well done, enjoying your videos sir
Thanks so much. Glad you liked it!
I really hope they keep the Defenders stuff canon. They don't break continuity (or atleast stretch the limits of it). And despite some of the shows not being as loved as other's it's not like the characters are unsalvagable. A soft reboot or appearances in other projects could work just fine
Yes, I would love to see the Defenders-verse staying canon. I wonder about Iron Fist and also some of the other characters like Elektra. Perhaps those will be stumbling blocks if Feige wants to redo their stories. But we'll just have to see. I do agree that the Defenders have the best chance of staying 616 canon. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U No worries, brilliant video yet again
Thanks so much!
Great video! Thanks for all the time you put into these. Your videos are always a treat.
As a Marvel TV show fan, I definitely hope that all the shows would remain 100% canon (even Inhumans and Helstrom lol). However, I wouldn't mind if something similar to option 2 happened, where they retcon some elements of the shows, but most of it remains canon. Or in 616, something very similar happened, but it was slightly different to fit the main timeline better. Perhaps the Runaways defeated Morgan without time-travel, and perhaps AoS S6 & 7 happened, but the blip is mentioned and the world looks more bleak, etc.
Most of the other "problems" with the show aren't really issues with continuity, they can be easily explained if you're willing to wiggle a little. The main thing I see being good about retconning or removing things from canon is certain characters can be reused that were killed off or used in an unsatisfying way. A few examples being Absorbing Man, Ben Urich, Hellcat, Iron Fist (although I thought he was great past his first season with better writing), Madame Masque, and Jigsaw. Otherwise, it won't be as satisfying for most of these characters to return if their backstory in these shows is dropped. Then they wouldn't really be the same characters anymore.
Hopefully with Daredevil and any other characters they bring back, they're brought back with light references to their old shows where you don't HAVE to watch the shows to understand the characters, but they would enhance the their backstories and your experience as a viewer.
Excellent commentary. Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head. I suspect the reason some things may move into the multiverse is to allow for the reintroduction of the characters with new backstories. We'll have to see how things go, but I could imagine that being a driving force behind any decision made. Thx so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Your comments were spot on and I enjoyed reading them all!
I think my favorite connections are the subtle ones from Helstrom; a replica of Sersi’s dagger from “Eternals” is in the Blood’s possession, a mention of the Sokovia Accords in a newspaper (that alludes to the GRC from Falcon and the Winter Soldier), and also the implication that the rise of demonic possession in the past year is a result of the massive amounts of deaths from the Snap.
Oh wow, I totally forgot about the mention of the deaths from the snap and the Sersi dagger references. Excellent additions to the list. It really is amazing how connected they made the Marvel TV world. Subtle easter eggs are sometimes more enjoyable than the ones that are in your face, per se. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Technically, Helstrom doesn’t mention the deaths from the snap. But it does say that in the past year, requests for exorcisms have grown exponentially. That could easily be a consequence of the snap, all the bad people killed by the Snap becoming demons and possessing the living in order to return to Earth.
@@WhiteRaven696 Ah! Okay, that makes sense. I really do like the theory!
@@AbitofEverything4UI can see this theory working because of all of the causalities caused because of the Snap. From people who were in hospitals,trains,cars & planes even people like Sorcerer's & Witch's.
@@spider-dude2476Totally agree!
Thank you so much for letting me help you with this!
No, thank YOU! I hope it turned out as well as you wanted. It was alot of fun working with you!
I loved Marvel's Agents of SHIELD and Marvel's Agent Carter. The shows don't get enough love these days. Mainly because they'd probably confuse average theater audiences. "What the heck is going on? Who is this Coulson guy? Who's this woman that makes the Earth Shake? Who are these 1940s Secret Agents?" I remember watching New Episodes of AOS & AC every Tuesday/Friday Night when they aired. I'd always make a bowl of Popcorn, grab a can of Grape Soda, and sit back and relax.
Yes, I agree...I loved watching AoS and AC and I remember in 2020 when the pandemic shut everything down for Marvel...well, except for AoS S7. It was such a treat to have something from Marvel to watch each week and it was a perfect sendoff for the show. Both AoS and AC deserve alot of love. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Love the convo with fellow MCU Fans!
I'm sure the theater audiences who hadn't seen all the movies or Disney+ shows would get confused too. Imagine someone seeing Avengers: Endgame as the first Marvel movie he's ever seen. He'd be very confused about everything, wouldn't he?
18:52 Wooo my boy got mentioned 😂
Yep...was a series that never really got a chance to shine. Wish they'd have given it one more season to see if it would really kick in!
@@AbitofEverything4U Oh just wait. Kevin feige specifically said only one name in an interview when asked about the shows and connections to the MCU. Hellstrom, Kevin said he wants a "more comic accurate" version of the character than the show had done.
And with Mephistos special releasing in October I'd be hard pressed if he isn't introduced in that. I was brain storming with some other people as to how he will be brought in and I had my money on M.o.M but I wasn't fully disappointed after getting to see Mt. Wondegor and the carvings of Keepers and Glyphs that showed up on the casket of a Keeper in Hulu's version.
We now assume the Mephisto special is going to be a period piece set in the 70s and begins at Mephistos decision to create an offspring to help him conquer earth. So I'm guessing that we will get introduced to the Caretaker, Damion and Satana Hellstrom, Victoria Hellstrom, and Mephisto.
And it could be where we would see Sasha baron Cohen's version of Mephisto appear.
Sry I wrote a lot. I love the Hellstorm family
My favorite story has to go to either 'Spirits of Vengeance War at the gates of hell' or Damnation where Mephisto takes over Las Vegas
@@DanHosler That would be awesome of Hellstrom was introduced in the Mephisto special. Love that idea!
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Irving Forbush was a gag character in the 60's who also went by the name Forbush Man.
Good point. Yes, that may well have been the reason for that name being used. If so, I really love that deep cut!
Incredible video, one missed connection though was the Darkhold from shield appearing in Runaways. Its the same prop and everything
Excellent catch! Yes, the Darkhold was a very cool tie between the shows. Thanks for pointing that out. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback!
I finally managed to watch this video too and yeah I love how you entered deeper on this topic.
I personally prefer option 1, first because they actually sold us those shows as MCU canon and I honestly wouldn't have watched them otherwise, so for them to backpedal this way it would really upset me, but also I love how these shows complement the movies by adding to or exploring more the lore of this universe. I also think that all those instances that can be seen as inconsistencies can actually be explained really easily when you come down to it.
Also, one important thing to note about Agent Carter is that its production involved both Feige and the Russo brothers, and considering the appearance of Jarvis in Endgame, I'm pretty sure they still consider at least this show canon.
Anyway, the funny thing is that there are even more connections from the shows to the movies (like for example AoS season 3 mentioning the events of AntMan, AoS season 7 using Endgame time travel, Trish and Diamond Back from the Defenders shows being held at the Raft), but it is actually even more interesting how there are even more connections from the Marvel Studios stuff to the shows that you (probably for time reasons) missed.
Just to name an interesting few (but there's even more):
- The Black Widow movie, during its flashbacks to the Red Room, shows the exact same training that they show in the Red Room flashbacks from Agent Carter.
- Shows like Ms Marvel and Falcon and Winter Soldier have background props that mention things that tie in with AoS.
- Spiderman Far From Home shows us that Shield is still up and running and that it is working with Saber (which may be hinted at during the AoS season 7 finale).
- In AntMan we see active Hydra agents that would only make sense in the context of what was happening during AoS at that time.
- Captain Marvel actually has many subtle connections to AoS. First of all, when the Kree take Carol Danvers, they inject her with Kree blood in order to heal her injuries (which is basically a lower version of Project Tahiti) and then they remove her prior memories, which we saw in AoS is a required step after Tahiti to prevent the user from going insane. Also, they used a device to keep her powers in check which is the exact same Kree superpowers inhibitor that was firstly seen in AoS season 5.
- In AoS we see Sif going around in various missions on behalf of Odin, aka Loki at that time. We know from Ragnarok that Loki kept Thor and his friend occupied elsewhere to prevent them from discovering his disguise, which is also what saves Sif since she didn't return to Asgard in time.
- The Wakanda Files book talks again about the Project Theta helicarier.
Oh wow...those are even more awesome connections. Thanks so much for adding those to the list. I may need to do an update to this vid at some point and I'll be sure to include all of those. Will be very interesting to see which direction Marvel goes with all the ties. I suspect that either Quake, Ghost Rider or Daredevil's next appearance will give us some big clues Thanks so much for your incredible feedback. Really appreciate it!
I was hoping for this video! Thank you!
Thanks so much. Hope you enjoy it!
YOU’RE VIDEOS ARE SO GREAT I LOVE THEM SOOO MUCH!
Thanks so much. Really appreciate that!
I really hope they decide to keep AoS seasons 1-5 canon to the mcu. I feel that up to that point the show really worked really well together with the movies.
Yes, those AoS seasons meshed very well with the greater MCU. Will be very interesting what happens with those seasons. I did a recent video on Quake returning to the MCU and so we may find out sooner than later what Marvel's plans will be!
They can keep season 6 and 7 too honestly, no problems there, but I know what you mean.
Helstrom also featured a Roxxon gas station in the 1rst or 2nd episode. Daisy/Quake referenced Micro from Punisher. Also Dogs of Hell bikers were beat up by Lady Sif on AoS, then later killed by Punisher.
Niiiiice! Great addition to the list. Hellstrom didn't have alot of ties, so that's a good one to add!
@@AbitofEverything4U no problem, great channel, subbed, keep it up.
Also just remembered, Daisy Johnson & Matt Murdock went to the same orphanage.
@@trippytimesjosh355 Oh yeah, they did, didn't they? That's another great tie-in. Man there were a bunch!
I love and appreciate these videos, I watch them on my free time and have them going in my headphones like music while at work
That's a perfect way to watch them. Thanks for the positive feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U :D !
When I saw Jarvis on Endgame I almost cry. So important character for me, so emotions attached with Agent Carter and I don't expect it at all.
Yeah, that was simply amazing. I was really proud of Marvel for including Jarvis in Endgame. That was just the perfect way to tie it all together!
@@AbitofEverything4U Endgame was full of Easters eggs of the MCU. So beautiful to put one for the fans who saw the series. One of my favourite Endgame easter eggs.
Totally agree!
Thanks for doing this. You probably don't remember me asking for this video but thanks
You did indeed ask for this. It was a fantastic suggestion and it's been on my mind ever since. Took awhile to get everything together, but really appreciate you suggesting it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah you and the others did a great job gathering information for this video.
Thanks! You definitely helped encourage me to do it!
Season 3 of Agents of SHIELD also mentions Pym Laboratories being destroyed, which references the main events of Ant-Man
Ah, great addition to the list. Man, so many great connections between the TV shows and the movies. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, another interesting thing is how the Agents of SHIELD finale retroactively changed the show's time travel to work with what Endgame established
@@ramsaysanders3986 Yes, I thought that was great. They even explained it all a little better than in Endgame, tbh.
Great topic!
Thanks so much! Yeah, I had alot of fun putting the video together. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!
Another small show to film connection is the cellist mentioned by Tony and Pepper in The Avengers as having recently dated Coulson. We meet the cellist in AOS.
Very true...that was such a good episode!
Dear god I’ve been waiting for this one! I’m so pumped!
Hope you like it. Had alot of fun making it. Thanks for watching!
YEAAAA LETS GOOOOOOO THANK YOU FOR THE SHOUT OUT!!!
Dude, you rock! Thx for all the awesome help!
@@AbitofEverything4U it's my duty to spread the canon argument across the world lolol
Thank you so much it's so cool to be in the video 🙏🙏
You are indeed the canon emissary! March on, brother...march on!
@@AbitofEverything4U marching!!
There's also another connection between AOS and Daredevil. Both Daisy Johnson and Matt Murdock spent time in their childhoods at St. Catherine's Orphanage. Given their ages they might have been there at the same time and knew each other.
Right! Would be very cool to see a flashback with them both in it!
I'd like to remark that in shehulk, Madisynn mentioned she made a deal with a demon in another dimension. Also ghost riders last appearance in agents of shield is in the dark dimension. And it just so happens that the guy who sends her there is called Donny Blaze. It's a weak connection but if ghost rider emerges from Madisynn in the future, it wouldn't break agents of shield cannon while not adhering to that story either because Johnny blaze hasn't been used yet
What an interesting observation. I had never made that connection. Thanks so much for watching and sharing that. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U no problem! Happy to add to the conversation
Also, Blaze's necklace is the same crow skull that Morgan le Fay wears in Runaways season 3.
@@ghiggs8389 Excellent! That's another great connection to add to the list. Thanks so much!
Ooh, I forgot to mention, Blackout’s actor played a bartender in Captain Marvel. Victoria Alonzo implied in a Reddit AMA that he was playing the same character. That means Blackout, Edwin Jarvis, Daredevil, Kingpin and Black Bolt have all debuted on the TV side and made the jump to the movies.
Yeah, I think that's very cool that they have said the Blackout actor is the same character in AoS and Captain Marvel. It would make his aging seem abit off, but it's still a really fun connection, none-the-less!
great video. The legend at around 20:25 should be graphical instead of text, would improve the understanding of it
Excellent feedback! Yes, I agree, I am a fan of images more than words. Thanks for that great suggestion and also thx for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Another iron fist reference to MCU is sometime in the show someone says something along the lines of“you’re like that incredible green guy”. I don’t remember the context or who said it but I remember it was said
Nice deep dive reference. Yes, I love how they don't actually call him the Hulk, but "the green guy" and they call the battle of NY "the incident". It's a great way to avoid looking like a total MCU name drop for name drop's sake, and instead makes the reference feel unique to the Netflix shows. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The biggest black mark against the continued canonicity of Agents of Shield is that you’d think at some point somebody would’ve mentioned the totally-not-mutants popping up all around the world. That’s not just some small inconsequential event that can be handwaved, it’s literally world-altering.
Yes, one of my biggest concerns about the AoS show being canon is the Inhumans outbreak. That just didn't make sense that it wasn't mentioned in any of the movies. In fact, I did a video on the entire inhumans situation, as it was quite a mess. You can find it here if interested: th-cam.com/video/o_k7z97xd94/w-d-xo.html. Anyway, will be interesting to see what the fate of the AoS canon status will be. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U wasn’t expecting a reply, I’ll give that video a watch. Either way I’ve mostly accepted, as an enjoyer of the show, that AoS is just officially-sanctioned fan fiction of the MCU with strictly one-way continuity nods.
Yeah, my guess is that Marvel will continue to keep dodging the canonicity question for Agents of SHIELD but will also try to avoid contradicting the show. I would much rather they just give us an answer, but they seem to like to straddle the fence on this issue. So that would leave Agents of SHIELD in a place where fans can watch it if desired, but that it won't be necessary viewing. Probably the smartest stance for Marvel to take, I guess.
To be fair, the inhumans outbreak was more contained than it seemed, especially with time moving forward, but one can say that the Vision comment on the rise of superpowered individuals in Civil War wouldn't make sense if you don't factor the inhumans in (as well as the other tv shows).
Canon or not, I hope that the casts of all these shows get another chance. They all deserve it and I think some of them will shine way better under the right story and direction (Iron Fist, Inhumans and Helstrom)
Agreed! Whether they appear before Secret Wars or whether they formally join the MCU as part of Secret Wars, I'd love to see the same cast again. And I think Feige will do that as much as possible. Bringing back Charlie and Vincent was awesome for DD and Kingpin. So hopefully we'll see that trend continue. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
I'm currently making a chart of how all the MCU films and Disney + shows connect with each other (however insignificant some may be) and if I ever get round to adding these shows I'll be sure to stop back off here.
Very cool! Yes, let me know if you put that together. Really appreciate you watching!
In Runaways Sister Grimm also has the same Dark Dimension makeup on her face from Doctor Strange when using her powers
Great catch! Yes, that's a good one to add to the list. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
One of the connections that's tied with both lines of the greater MCU and the shows. Wanda Vision, Agents of Shield, Runaways and of cause Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness which will lead into Agatha All Along which would be my guess. And that connection would be The Darkhold. So here's my suggestion can we explore the ties of The Darkhold and see what we can find and maybe things we never thought we would find?
Good point! MoM explained that the Darkhold books are just copies of the original text at Mount Wundagore. So we can therefore have different looking Darkhold versions, which makes all of them canon. Would indeed be a fun vid to look at all the times the Darkhold has shown up in the MCU!
This was an interesting discussion for my option it's either between 2 or 3 just because it does connect with the multiverse
Yes, I think you hit it on the head. I think they will go with option 2 or 3 and that the multiverse gave them the perfect way to still allow things to be canon, but just not canon to 616. Excellent commentary. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
Another connection Coulson mentions Hydra made this blue soap to spy on people in the season 4 Framework storyline. That soap then showed up in a WandaVision commercial.
Oh yeah! Excellent addition to the list!
I feel like Option 3 might be likely, with some shows/connections/elements still remaining canon, like Daredevil’s origins will stay the same and other origin stories might stay the same with slight alterations.
Yes, I think that's a great assessment of the situation. I suspect we will see Marvel head in the direction of Option 3, perhaps due to wanting to provide a new take on characters like Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, etc. And I also agree with you that much of the backstory will remain the same for characters like Daredevil. Great feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Would love to see a Helstrom MCU timeline video
Was really bummed Helstrom got cancelled. They had big plans with Helstrom, Ghost Rider and more. Sigh. Would have been great!
Awesome video... I think Agents of SHIELD is already established as non-616 canon. In the final episode, we see the Triskelion where it should already have been destroyed as we see in the Captain America: the Winter Soldier.
Interesting observation! I missed that, but that does seem like it was a mistake. I wonder if they implied the Triskelion has been fixed? But that seems strange. I do hope that the timeline book coming out later this year will go into what is canon and what isn't. That would be great if so. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
It is canon, in Spider-Man Far From Home they’re rebuilding the Triskelion.
@@MomentoHeroico I think they might just be cleaning up the wreckage in Homecoming, but I do agree that it seems it was rebuilt by 2020 in Agents of SHIELD.
Stronger case for AoS and Runaways: The Darkhold.
Major plotline for most of season 4 in AoS and the primary reason for season 3 in The Runaways. I know it's slightly different in WandaVision and MoM but still has ties to the MCU as a whole.
I agree, that's a great addition to the list. And I think in MoM they explained that there are multiple copies of the Darkhold so that's why it can look different in each case. Great feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
You forgot the magic staff from Runaways appears in the background in Hong Kong in the Doctor Strange movie
Oh wow! I wasn't aware of that. How cool! Thanks so much for adding that to the list. Really appreciate it!
I wonder if you could make a video discussing Legion and Gifted's canoncity within the greater MCU multiverse. Just wanting to know basically if I should watch them in my X-men series rewatch prior to Deadpool 3, not to mention potentially including the 2000s Fantastic four and Fant4stic.
also they're gonna go with option 3, but i want option 1.
Great suggestions. I almost talked about Legion and Gifted, but I can't quite tell if they are even canon to the X-verse. I do think a video about those shows is a good idea though. And I could discuss the FF4 movies a well. Excellent idea!
My idea is, in SDCC 2023, Secret Invasion was already out, if quake or agent coulson appeared in the show, they should announced that Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D & the other shows are officially canon and they should tell where the show in the phases, examples: Daredevil, Jessica Jones & Luke Cage are from Phase 2
That will be so awesome if they do that
Fingers cross if will happen 🤞
Yes, would be great to see Quake again. And it would be great if we got a harmonized timeline showing us how everything relates to each other. We can only hope. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
My guess would be during the 1 year time jump fury contacted daisy asked for her help because he trused coulson and he mentions her name in the 2nd episode of season 1
@@jonathanmcintosh9258That could work!
Can’t believe you forgot to mention the Darkhold that thing shows up in Agents of Shield, Runaways, Wandavision and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Yeah, great point. I did mention the Darkhold in my earlier video on the Pre-D+ shows, but left it out this time. I def. agree, I should have included it. It's a very cool tie. And it was explained really well in MoM that the book can look differently as each of them are different copies. Great catch and thanks fore bringing it up!
10:23 I distinctly remember the picture on the right being in Daredevil because it is my favorite show on Netflix
Yes, that's a very distinctive picture. I remember it from my first watch of Daredevil as well. What amazing series. Really looking forward to DD: Born Again!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh yeah, me too. By the way, I bought all 3 seasons of the show, the first 2 on blu-ray from amazon and the 3rd on dvd somewhere else
@@primusfan87 Nice! Well worth the cost to own physical copies of the show. Good call!
@@AbitofEverything4U the only problem with the third series DVD thought, the first episode took a while to start playing, but that’s ok, it still worked
@@primusfan87 Good...glad it worked. Would be a bummer if it didn't load at all.
In Helstrom, Ana and her friend and colleague Chris Yen run an auction business in San Francisco. Now San Francisco is the city where Ant-Man (Scott Lang) and his colleagues lives and Ana and Chris didn't mention about them.
Yeah, I suspect Helstrom is the least likely show to be canon in the MCU. I've even seen conflicting reports regarding whether it was ever intended to be canon in the first place. So I suspect that Feige doesn't consider it canon, but just my guess. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that they're mostly going to leave the canonicity completely open. I think their best option is not completely addressing the shows and just letting the audience decide for themselves what is and isn't canon.
I'm very confident that Born Again is going to mostly be a soft reboot - light links to the original 3, but the audience can deicide what happened in the past while feige and the creative teams instead focus on what the future is
Excellent commentary. That is definitely how Marvel has been proceeding so far. I think where we may get a firm answer is when Marvel wants to use characters that were introduced in the Netflix shows but wants to go a different direction. For example, if they want to redo Elektra, or Iron Fist, or Bullseye. Also, for AoS they may want to redo Ghost Rider. So at some point I do think Marvel will tip their hand on things. But we'll see. Maybe they can keep tiptoeing around it for even longer. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
Personally, I just want everything to be canon, even if there's continuity errors, and then just tell the fans to determine how everything goes together and make theories for how the continuity errors could make sense since the fans are probably going to do that anyway. I wish most things had that approach. Or at the least say everything that doesn't contradict anything else is canon, so whatever can't work or conflicts with something else stays out, and everything that works and doesn't conflict stays in. Talking about what is and isn't canon usually annoys me with different franchises because it feels like people put too much focus on it and treat things they see as non-canon as something to be avoided at all costs even though there's still thought and effort that goes into it , so I kind of just wish creators would say everything is canon and have the fans make it make sense.
Very interesting perspective. I can definitely see the advantage to what you are saying. Granted, including everything can leave things confusing if there are direct contradictions between say one of the pre-D+ shows and the movies. But I also hate to have things written off as non-canon when they provide good entertainment as no one may watch them again if the are written off as non-canon. Lots to consider in this decision. Will be interesting to see where Marvel goes in the future as more characters from the pre-D+ shows are integrated into the greater MCU again.
it’s nice they canonized the defenders shows, i hope they make aos official canon and i wouldn’t mind cloak and dagger and runaways
Yeah, let's hope that perhaps some of the other shows will be dubbed official canon. Fingers crossed!
Hey dude! I was wondering if you could help me with something I’ve been thinking about. You know the blue person in moon knight that they chopped the hand off of? Is that the same body seen in ms marvel? (Great vid btw)
Wow, you've stumped me abit. Which episode of Moon Knight did that happen in? And thanks for positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
I still need to finish these shows, I've just watched Daredevil S1-S2,Jessica Jones S1 and Agent Carter S1-S2
Awesome. Happy viewing. Lots of great content!
For me, the varied styles, tones, and perspectives of the shows (as opposed to the samey look and feel of Marvel Studios’ productions) make the MCU feel so much bigger and more layered in my opinion.
Great comment. Yes, I really like the street-level feel of the Netflix shows and also the rich storytelling of Agents of SHIELD. Each show definitely adds to the overall MCU with it's look and feel. Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U it’s what got me into the MCU. It wasn’t Iron Man or Avengers, but Daredevil.
Even the Netflix shows were unique. You had the Scorsese crime drama in Daredevil, the neo-noir thriller in Jessica Jones, the neo-blaxploitation in Luke Cage, and the Eastwood-esque drama in Punisher.
I think Marvel Studios could learn a lot from the Netflix series in particular.
@@samkeller5823 Well said! I suspect you are far from alone in checking out the greater MCU due to first watching the Netflix shows. Just some absolutely amazing content. And DD S1 might be some of the best Marvel TV ever. So good!
Once again an wonderful video.
Two questions-If Marvel saw your videos and was like “ hey this guy is great. Lets get him for our official timeline keeper”. What would be the first thing you do to fix the timeline?
And second ( on topic with video) what character from these shows ( other than daredevil ) would you like to see appear in a Avenger’s movie?
Great questions.
1. What would I fix with the timeline... for sure the #1 thing is I would work with the creative teams to help them understand each entries place in the timeline. Gunn recently tweeted that Marvel doesn't even talk about timelines with the creative teams, which mystified me. It results in so much mis-information going out about where the movies/shows fall in the timeline, and that creates confusion and frustration for fans.
But if you are asking for a specific thing I would fix...then I would move Thor: Love & Thunder from Oct 2025 to May 2025 in the D+ timeline. I believe it should be in 2025, but I don't like it so late in the timeline as it makes Groot's appearance look strange and it also means the Guardians were with Thor for way longer than we had initially assumed. I think that move doesn't hurt anything and solves alot of issues. Otherwise, I'm fine with the D+ timeline and don't understand all the hate it gets from some fans.
2. I would love to see the following characters from the pre-D+ shows appear, I guess in this relative order: Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Skye, and Ghost Rider. Hard to pick a favorite, as I want all 4 like yesterday.
Thanks so much for watching and for leaving the great questions. Really appreciate it!
Was the scrull nick fury at the end of far from home talking about kree sleeper cells being open knowledge referring to the inhuman outbreaks in agents of shield? Inhumans are kree experimental weapons so certainly a Skrull would see them that way and I don't know what else he could be talking about.
Interesting...I've never heard that theory before, but I can see where you are going with it. Would be really cool if they make that tie at some point. Maybe in Secret Invasion we'll finally get the payoff for that line. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
One connection that you didn't mention is that Daredevil and Quake both stayed at the Saint Agnes Orphanage.
Ah, great connection! Yes, thanks for sharing that one!
My choice for what they do with the shows is option 2
I want them to make some of them canon (Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Defenders and Agents of Shield) whilst also keeping some things in a seperate universe, I feel this will keep most of the tv show fans happy and won't tie them down to all that much, and keeping the shows I listed as canon doesn't retcon anything and doesn't really ruin anything so its fine for them to stay canon (maybe some things in say AOS may need a small reworking but not much). I also feel they will go with this option is seems as if thats what they are gearing up to do with She Hulk, No Way Home and Hawkeye as you said referencing Daredevil and trying to tie into it so I hope they go with that option and O think they will.
Great commentary. Yes, I do think Option 2 would make the most amount of fans happy. Keep as much 616 canon as possible and let the rest be canon in the multiverse. I think we'll keep getting a better idea as things like DD: Born Again come out and we see how the Neflix DD shows are referenced. My only concern is if Marvel wants to redo some of the characters, such as Iron Fist, Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, etc. That will be the big test at that point. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really do appreciate it!
I think it’s much easier to adopt most of the defenders and some of sheild and put the rest in a multiverse pile and call it cannon because not only does it work well but I think it’s some of the few projects people are prepared to rewatch AND when marvel does their work right it doesn’t matter to rewatch it
Excellent feedback. Yes, I think the Defenders and the first few seasons of Agents of SHIELD are the likeliest to remain 616 canon and the rest will still have a home in the multiverse and some characters may even return during Secret Wars. Would be a fun way to bring back the characters people really like for one last appearance. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Daisy and Matt also both went to Saint Agnes orphanage
Excellent addition. Nicely done! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Not having a post snap focused agents of shield season was such a massive lost opportunity. Yes there are seasons which take place in that time period but it's just not mentioned due to issues with the studios. On the other hand the blip gives the movies some breathing space to have allowed all these plotlines from the shows to play out off screen without becoming too complicated before they are potentially brought into the more "official" content without too many strings.
Yes, I agree, it was a big loss for there to have been such a breakdown between Marvel TV and Marvel Studios and the issues around the blip are where they really came to the forefront. It will be interesting to see what Marvel does with Agents of SHIELD going forward. With Daisy supposedly returning in Secret Invasion, it won't be long before we find out! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
how would the darkhold from agents of shield work with the current darkhold in the MCU? they seem like they work completely different.
Well we never actually saw how agatha got the darkhold so hopfeully we'll get a flashack in her show as well maybe robbie
Great question. I should have brought that up in the video. My apologies about that. So the theory is that the original Darkhold was at Mount Wundagore, as we learned in Multiverse of Madness. So therefore all of the others we've seen were just copies. Thus, they can have a different look each time we see the Darkhold, as they are different copies. Not a perfect answer, but I think it addresses the main issue with the book. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
@@jonathanmcintosh9258 Yes, would be great to learn how Agatha got her copy. A flashback would be awesome!
I think and hope for option 3, all shows become their own cannon and 616 takes from it what they want.
But not for the reason you may think!
The feud between Loeb and Feige was infamous over creative direction. So while there's direct ties, it's still very muddy between the two.
So the problem for me is not that I don't want the shows to exist and so they should be separated, It's that I like the shows so much I would rather their canonicity not be screwed with by 616.
I want to still have the Runaways and Defenders and regardless of the direction that 616 takes I want to head canon the further adventures of the pre-Disney+ shows.
So yeah, I would rather MCU take only what it wants without screwing with the plots of the shows.
Like how frustrating would it be for you if all the character development was rolled back. For example Jessica's relationships. They (somewhat) improved as she delt with her external and internal issues and learned to find value in others. Now imagine Jessica shows up in the MCU and she's back to square one. Maybe it's unexplained or maybe it is but the easy answer is that the writers want people who didn't necessarily watch her show to see that character arc (even if it's treading old ground). I, personally, would find that infinitely frustrating if both were considered cannon to each other. To see any growth rolled back.
But if they were in different universes I could see the MCU Jessica as a variant who hasn't had that development yet. I could see where the MCU takes it differently. And all the while I still have the Netflix version to fall back to unburdened by careless future shakeups.
Wow...that's some excellent commentary. I love your reasoning and agree 100%. I do think they will go with option #3 and you are convincing me that it may be for the best. I enjoyed reading all of that. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
Glad someone made a video about this
Thanks! Had a blast making it!
I thinks its most likely 2. but i really wish it was 1, damn i didn't realize how much effort there was for the pre-Disney+ shows (not counting the netflix ones), really wish they become canon and they just fix the characters that we're made badly like Iron fist and Black Bolt!
Yeah, I'm with you on wanting everything to remain canon. It would be great if they could figure out how to do it. There was a ton of effort to connect everything. It's really amazing to see it all laid out in the video like that. I guess we'll have to see what Feige has in store. Hoping for the best! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Daredevil Born Again was far into production when She-Hulk episode 8 released. There's no way they use the music if they were discarding the netflix shows.
Additionally, if Feige really wanted to move away from AoS, Jarvis would not have been in Avengers: Endgame.
I think you can safely consider everything up to the time travel canon, and I will form my opinion on what to do w/ S6 and S7 when I've seen them.
Pretty sure helstrom was decanonised, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger don't really matter, and Inhumans... eh, Anson Mount was asked back for MoM so there is that.
We should be finding out this year with the book as well as hopefully Echo releasing in autumn, DD Born Again trailer, etc.
On Hellstrom, the creator did suggest it wasn't canon, but in the same interview he said that Helstrom takes place in its own corner of the MCU and would have crossed over with the planned Ghost Rider show which was supposed to be in-continuity with Agents of SHIELD. So it sounds like by "not canon" he actually meant, "won't crossover with the movies, and you won't need to watch anything else to follow its events".
As for the others shows, I agree, I'd love to see the Netflix shows stay canon as well as much of Agents of Shield and Agent Carter as possible. On AoS, I fear Feige might want to redo Ghost Rider and not be beholden to S4. And at the end of S2, the Inhumans outbreak is weird due to it never being mentioned in the greater MCU. So it's just hard to predict what will happen.
I agree, the timeline book should spell it out nicely. I sure hope we get some solid answers at that point. Excellent comments as always!
Everything the Agents did while time-travelling in Seasons 5 and 7 are alternate timelines per Endgame's rules. Everything they did in the present day is canon, even when nobody got snapped. I mean, the Snap did happen but the only S.H.I.E.L.D. agents who were affected were Nick Fury and Maria Hill. Coulson's whole team survived the Snap.
I reckon they will probably go with option 2 and personally thats the one I want.
Yeah, I don't see option 1 happening. Would be very cool if they did #2 and kept the Netflix shows around in particular. Hopefully we'll find out soon what direction they choose. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Option 2 or 3 will probably be the most likely case. It's simply because of all of the contradictions that arose between Marvel Studios and TV productions as the seasons/films went by in terms of certain concepts. For example, time travel rules, SHIELD's status after Age of Ultron and Civil War, the snap, etc.
Right, I fear that things like the inhumans outbreak on the TV shows which is then never mentioned in the movies is a concern, as well as the examples you mention such as SHIELD's status, the snap, time travel etc. I also think Feige may want a new crack at characters like Ghost Rider and Iron Fist (as well as others), and so de-canonizing the entire set of shows may give him the most freedom. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
The time travel rules kept changing after Endgame. S.H.I.E.L.D. still existed in Spider-Man: Far From Home (Peter got his Night Monkey suit from a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent), and the Snap vanished people randomly and indiscriminately so the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. cast was lucky to not lose anyone in the Snap. Though, the fact that the Snap was never mentioned in the show was weird, that doesn't take the show out of the MCU.
@@SeanWheeler100 Yeah, the last of mention of the snap was weird, but of course it was due to the writers not being aware of it, so it makes sense, even if it's a bummer
And Kevin Feige has said that Charlie Cox is Matt Murdock/Daredevil in the MCU.
Agreed. Feige seems to have alot of respect for the Netflix shows!
Hey A bit of Everything! Amazing video! I really hope that they go with option one as well and just keep them all canon, but like you said, I think they are going to go with option three. I used to think that these shows weren't canon. I just thought of them as Marvel stories that happened somewhere. The reasons I thought that they weren't canon was because 1) some of the shows like the Netflix ones and Runaways and others were very tonally different than the MCU and 2) because of the three different rules of time travel in these shows. But then I realized that both of these can be explained. 1) There is no reason that the tone matters anymore especially after phase 4. In phase 4 we got a spy thriller, a comedy, a black and white horror project, a sitcom, a more kid friendly show and a bunch of other genres so why can't there be stuff like the Netflix shows too? 2) The time travel thing can be explained by two arguments. The first one is that what they use for time travel depends on what the rules are. For example in agents of shield season 5, they time travel using the monolith and it creates what I call the Harry Potter 3 effect where they were always there and nothing can change that. In Runaways, Chase creates his machine that is very different than the ones that the Avengers use and so that one creates what I call the disappear effect where they disappear if something is changed. But in agents of shield season 7, they use quantum travel, as Fitz explains, like the Avengers did so that created an alternate timeline. So quantum travel creates a different timeline while the other ways have their own rules. The second explanation of how all the time travel works kinda adds onto the first and it is pulled out of an MCU movie. In Doctor Strange when Steven is messing with time and Wong and Mordo catch him, Mordo says, "Temporal manipulations can create branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings. Spatial paradoxes! Time loops!" This line shows that there are more ways that time travel can work than just branch timelines. Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts on this. Again, great video!
Great feedback. Yeah, I have gone back and forth on whether I wanted the pre-D+ shows to be 616 canon or not. I watched them all and loved every minute (well, other than Iron Fist S1...ugh!) and so ultimately I'd like them to remain canon. I fear that they won't remain canon, however, due Feige wanting to be freed up for new storytelling with the characters in the shows, such as Ghost Rider.
Regarding time travel, yeah, I think that AoS S5 could work as you explain, or could work in that when they returned from the future, they created a branch. If they created a branch, it could even address the lack of a better Infinity War tie-in, as perhaps Thanos didn't win in the branch. As for S7, I think that Fitz's time travel works very well with Endgame....at least it does as long as they created a branch each time they appeared in the past. So when they grabbed Sousa, for instance, they didn't necessarily say it caused a branch, but it very well could have, and then it meshes with Endgame.
As for Runaways, I honestly don't know how to make that fit. Other than closed loops like Ms. Marvel's time travel, I don't like the butterfly effect and that's what happened in that episode. Sadly, it's also what happened several times in the X-men/Deadpool movies (i.e. Days of Future Past and the stuffed animal in DP2). So perhaps they will address this in DP3. Would be great if they find a way to make it all work. But I personally like the branch logic so much better and I don't have a way to make Runaways work as I hope Chase couldn't find a way to break the rules laid out in Endgame. I just don't like butterfly effect stories. Otherwise, someone could just keep coming from the future and re-writing things all the time. But Endgame made it so that time travel doesn't keep messing with the main timeline.
FYI, I did do a video on time travel in the MCU, if you haven't see it. I don't touch on Runaways, but do go into my theories on branching in general. You can find it here, if interested: th-cam.com/video/25tUip5y7Ss/w-d-xo.html. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah I totally agree with you! I still think Runaways is canon though and that the time travel can be explained. Also I did watch that time travel video. It was really good. So you don't like butterfly effect stories? Not even Back to the Future?🤨
Sorry, I should be more specific on butterfly stories. I do like them, but I like them better as a one and done. So Back to the Future worked for me. But to have time travel using the butterfly effect in a universe like the MCU means someone could just keep going back and re-writing the past over and over. It's basically whoever has the time travel machine last wins. But you are right, for a simple set of movies like Back to the Future or even the Terminator movies, I'm fine with it. Thanks for asking!
@@AbitofEverything4U Ok nice! I was just messing with ya. I knew what you meant
Just wanted to make you didn't think I my hate on for Marty McFly. May he live forever!
I’m watching all the titles of Marvel Television
Already watched all the seasons of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter
I’m about to finish the Defenders Saga (I was watching Iron Fist S2 when the notification of your video showed up 😂)
And I’m loving everything, a complete rich world!
Awesome! So glad you are watching all of those. Some are better than others, but all of the Defenders saga is great!
I doubt that keeping the other shows in canon would be too restrictive for Feige, considering they were only allowed to cover things the movie side had no plans on touching on. For instance, MODOK was planned to be the villain of _AoS_ S7, but the crew were told no because of his upcoming _Quantumania_ appearance.
Yeah, I am hoping Feige finds a way to keep everything canon. I just wonder if he decides to redo some of the characters, such as Iron Fist, Elektra, Bullseye, Ghost Rider, Morgan Le Fey, etc. We'll have to see what happens down the line. But I'm rooting for it all to remain canon. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Wasn't MODOK meant for series 4? With the Russian guy, think he was called The Superior or something, at least that's what the thingy said. He was going to become MODOK instead of having all those doubles.
@@sacrificiallamb4568 Could be. I'm not sure on that.
Option 1. I sleep better knowing all of these shows are still MCU canon.
As for the Fox shows The Gifted actually is canon to the X Men movies and takes place in the original timeline after Wolverine 2013 and before Days of Future past. And we know this because Blink (the pink mutant from DOFP appears in the series, as well as mentions the Sentinels)
Legion however takes place in an alternate timeline just like Logan.
Yes, it would be great if they could keep everything canon. So many of those shows were top-notch TV. And thanks for the info about Gifted being between Wolverine and DOFP. So I assume that means it was re-written and eliminated from the timeline after Wolverine goes back in the past during DOFP? Seems like it, I guess. And I've heard that about Logan that it takes place in a totally different timeline but that seems strange to me. So it doesn't fit in any of the other timelines? Wild stuff. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
They could've made Inhumans canon by stating that it was in 838 and that the Black Bolt that died in Dr Strange 2 was the Black Bolt from the show. It would be a good way to acknowledge the show but also get rid of it entirely.
That's a really interesting thought. I agree, that would be a perfect way to make Inhumans part of the official timeline for at least the 838 universe. Very clever! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I actually thought of something similar too. :)
Pat Kiernan also was in Garfield's The Amazing Spider-Man)
Oh wow, I forgot about that. Thanks for mentioning it. That's a really fun easter egg.... I mean that dude really gets around, even in other universes! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
The old guy who calls ant man Spider-Man in the quantumania trailer also shows up in Agents Of Shield!
Oh, I totally love that connection. How awesome. Thx for watching and sharing that!
Who was he in aos?
@@Lowkidoe29 just some random dude in an episode with Sif
Do you think it is worth the time to watch agents of shields? Im thinking about binge watching it
Yes it is brilliant
@@Malchavik alright ill watch it soon
Yes, definitely worth a watch! S1 starts abit slow, but it really gets amazing by the end. And every season is good. It's so worth making it to S7, as it is a greatest hits of the first 6 seasons in a similar fashion to how Endgame brought back so many great memories of the Infinity Saga.
@@Malchavik Totally agree!
@@colin_cpr Enjoy!
i hope that atleast the whole defenders saga including punisher will stay canon
Yes, those were fantastic. Daredevil is one of the best Marvel TV shows out there for sure. And all of the Defenders shows are great. Thx for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Another thing I’d add is that all the shows have the same darkhold
Yes! I actually mentioned that in an earlier video on the pre-D+ shows but spaced mentioning it here. Excellent addition to the list of ties!
Wow, the wait is finally over! I was looking forward to this video.
If you remember any of my comments, you probably know my stance on this issue, or, more precisely, my opinion on what Marvel would do, most likely. I have really not much faith in them respecting the creations of another divisions like Marvel TV. I believe, neither of the shows would turn out as canon to 616. That'd be great to have a nerd orgasm seeing Feige officially fitting all of this into one continuity, but they don't really like working overtime. Some parts of Daredevil will be repeated, some casting choices will remain consistent, but that's it. Maybe it's just my way or coping with disappointment, but I don't expect the TV stuff merge with 616 at all. (And I personally think that some of the shows like Runaways and Inhumans simply don't deserve to share a universe with others, but it's just the matter of taste, I guess.)
As in the past, your commentary is spot on. I think that Marvel will go with option 3 and it will indeed be disappointing. I think you laid out the reasoning very clearly. The only mystery now is how long we have to wait before we get the official word. Sigh. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Always love reading them!
@@AbitofEverything4U and I love watching your videos, as always!
Muchas gracias!
This was a great video! I’ve really been addicted to this channel and I’ve really enjoyed the content you’ve made over the past few months or so. If I could make a suggestion for a future video. It would be really cool if you made a video on how you would watch the MCU in order, mainly for people who are trying to get into the MCU, but don’t know what to watch, especially with the continuity strain of the Netflix shows, Agents of Shield, etc. I did a video on this on my own channel and would love to see your take on it!
Wow, your video is very detailed and was fun to watch. I do have a watch order but it doesn't include the Netflix shows yet. It's located on my google drive here: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1R_PrexMkTjYpQAraxlhzs2U5EPJEPioc. I also have a video mapping the phase 1-3 and then the phase 4 timelines: th-cam.com/video/atbURMDs8E0/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/wukRjemirdE/w-d-xo.html, if you're interested. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your comments. And again, nice work, on your video. Very entertaining!
@@AbitofEverything4U thank you so much for responding and watching my video as well! Can’t wait to see what you make in the future!
Thanks! Really appreciate that!
I think the most likely to be 100% canon are the ABC shows and Netflix shows. The others might be canon adjacent but I can’t see them being incorporated unless someone has a really good idea
Agreed...Netflix and ABC are the most likely. Will be very interesting to see what Feige does down the road. I hope we learn sooner than later. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
with the time travel thing the time travel in endgame and runaways are very different methods and could thus have different rules
Yes, great point about Runaways time travel. In fact, that's a big reason I wonder if at least that particular episode will be considered non-canon going forward. It is so different from the Endgame rules that I don't know if there is a way to make it work in the MCU. But perhaps we'll get more answers from Marvel on that in the future. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!