Extinct Indo-European Branches.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Shalom, I am back with another video on Indo-European languages. Yet this time, its about the Indo-European languages that didn't survive to the modern day. What could the world look like if these languages were still around?
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Sections:
00:00 - L'introduction
00:54 - Langue Un
03:23 - Langue Deux
06:41 - Langue Trois
11:23 - Fin
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Links:
Proposed Illyrian Vocabulary: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propose...
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Credits:
Production - me
Graphics - Microsoft PowerPoint
Recording - OBS Software
Editing - Microsoft ClipChamp
Samples - Wikipedia (yes it is a source)
Voiceover - me
Disclaimer - All content is researched, written, produced and voiced by me. I and only myself own the rights to this video.
![โอ้มายก๊อด! ไม่ถึงชั่วโมงหมดเป็นแสน 😅 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.42 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OH2ShXfO6tA/mqdefault.jpg)
I hope everyone liked this video! I would appreciate some support if you did. Have a nice day everyone!
No replies? Let me fix that.
Also mad respect that you reply to the comments.
@@bunk_foss I try to reply to as many as possible. Thank you for your comment!
shalom!
@@samiam_fr Shalom! Ma nishma?
@@CheLanguages beseder, vama bout?
Do a video on Tocharian. It's the coolest of them all! My favorite at least.
Seconded
Thirded
If I make a part 2, it's definitely getting talked about. Friend of the channel "Ling King" made a video on Tocharian about 3 years ago now, but I think I could make a much more updated version myself
I'll take all of your recommendations into consideration
Fourthed
4:52 Slavic languages are Satem too, “hundred” is ± /sto/ in all of them.
And Indo-Iranian branch is also Satem, but it's not in Europe.
Yes, I forgot this somehow. Thank you for the clarification
"Sto" is a rather unfortunate example as it appears to be an early borrowing from Iranian (possibly Scythian/Sauromatian). There's other ample evidence, though, showing Slavic languages to be "satem".
Yeah, Indo-Iranic and Balto-Slavic branches have a lot of similarities that are greater than Germanic and Romance do. Most like due to contact not that they are from one branch.
Ossetian is in Europe
@@rezazazu sorry, I forgot about Ossetian. Let's say then that Indo-Iranian branch is mostly located outside of Europe.
But also, there are different definitions of the Asia-Europe border. Some of them include Armenia and Azerbaijan as a part of Europe, others say that everything to the south of Don river is Asia.
9:38 Damn. From my experience with Coptic, I've started to understand that Greek in its hayday used to be a real language eater. First it heavily influenced other languages in terms of vocabulary, then altered their grammar, and fonally just killed them off. Pretty sad actually. And I say this as a native Greek myself
It is quite sad, but at the same time they were seen as the forefront of civilization and progression, it was a good Lingua Franca while it lasted. It helped to unite much of the Eastern Mediterranean (for some time at least)
Based Coptic
@@AvrahamYairStern too based for this world 😢
Today was supposed to be my 'no screen day' but I found this channel and now its going to be 'Ultra binge day'
HAHA well I hope you enjoy!
@@CheLanguages It started when I clicked on 'Origin of the word 'Mechanics' etymology' when I was doing my FM office work (Work doesn't count in no screen day)
After that the clicking further started and somehow I landed up here
ADHD
@literallynothinghere9089 I'm curious to how you ended up here from that. Well I hope you enjoy my videos!
Another great video from Yair! Glad to see you're still uploading!
Thank you!
Hi I am a Kurmanji (kirmada) Kurd. I follow you with love. An amazing channel that should be discovered for anyone who is closely interested in languages. ☀️
Thank you, I'm glad you like it!
Hi brother I'm a Sorani Kurd cool how your language is "son of Mada/Medes" and her bijhi ig
@@Peshmergo Hi bra and it's very cool that your name is pesh/merg/a "those who face death", my friend. I don't want to brag, but I think we Kurds are very cool 😂
@@enmu_forever1657 I agree we have a very cool language and culture 😂, her bijhi Kurd uu Kurdistan ❤☀💚
I love this channel so much.
Thank you so much, that means a lot to hear!
Me too
@@AvrahamYairStern thank you
@@CheLanguages Your channel is absolutely amazing. The content quality and ideas are both amazing. You deserve to hear it.
@@bunk_foss thank you, that makes my day to hear
This is such a cool channel.
I loved your new John McWhorter Israeli voice from the intro.
Thank you!
I don't know who John McWhorter is but it's sort of my "presenting voice" in Hebrew, much like my voice in the channel as a whole. In both languages my natural voice in more relaxed
interesting video, i always love thinking bout what could've been with these older languages
Me too, alternate history scenarios run wild
uh ho you dared say Illyrian isn't 100% Albanian. Now the Albanians gonna be mad!
Oh no! What am I going to do now Skanderbeg's army is on his way to conquer my commeny section?!
Fascinating! ❤
Thank you!
I wonder if we have enough documentation of Phrygian to do a revival...
Amazing video as always
If we did, it'd probably be Old Phrygian. It would be funny if one of the last Phrygian speakers time travelled to our day after reviving Phrygian and would be really confused to why we're speaking their Ancient form of the language
Another great video on such an interesting topic! Thank you once again Yair
You're welcome, which was your favourite?
@@CheLanguagesprobably Thracian, those guys were so cool
@@AvrahamYairStern best gladiators
Very interesting video! And yeah as a Greek person I have to say, I noticed many similarities with Phrygian!
Have you studied Ancient Greek?
@@CheLanguages yes I have, for some 6 years at school and also because I went to church since when I was younger. It was an important lesson for the university entrance exam, so I trained to read texts with ease and now I still know it. I also learnt Latin then, but because I haven't practiced it as much, I've started to forget some things 😅
@@georgios_5342 awesome! The first foreign language I ever studied was Latin, but that was many years ago now. I still recognize roots which has been very useful for learning Romance languages
@@CheLanguages Latin is a very cool language, both in terms of grammar and vocabulary. Unfortunately I don't have as much exposure to it as I'd like, but it has definitely made it easier to learn other Romance languages, such as Spanish or Romanian (I already knew French beforehand)
right ? I was impressed and actually in a happy way, feels like knowing there is a distant cousin out there. Many words looked very familiar and the script being in the Greek alphabet makes it look "homy"
There is also the language(s) of the Insular Bell Beakers, whose language was replaced by Proto-Celtic
Yes, but it's not Indo-European (from what we know, which is next to nothing). Paleo-European languages will be a whole other video unto itself
@@CheLanguages It is, I meant the language of the Insular Bell Beakers. Their IE language was later replaced by Proto-Celtic during the Iron Age before it was ever recorded
Good video!
Thank you!
As a Greek, Phrygian felt like I was reading Greek, but a form that is completely incomprehensible. Moreover, some words like "kakoun" were identical to Greek.
What does that mean in Greek? It's crazy how similar they must be
Shalom and thank you very much for the video
Shalom gam lekha! You're welcome
I recently found out that Etruscan, which was wiped out by the Romans, descends from a pre-Indo-European family.
I'd love to see a video of the relatively recently extinct language families in Europe and the world. It's crazy to think that a couple of millenia ago the European mainland had a dozen Basque-like isolates.
Etruscan is part of a proposed language family that I realllly want to make a video about at some point. Paleo-European languages are interesting
8:25 In fact, another closely related group were the Balkan Brygians, who spoke a very similar language to the Anatolian Phrygians, and the very name Brygian is just the Macedonian way of saying Phrygian, as the sound Ph had collapsed into B in ancient Macedonian Greek
I've not come across them, that's interesting how the community was split. Part 2 maybe?
I always thought that the Phrygians were a Hellenic group of people north of the Mycenaeans that migrated into Anatolia after the collapse of the Bronze Age.
@@sachemofboston3649 Well, they indeed might be linked
Hi, I am amateur linguist who interest in Indo European languages. Your presentation was perfect but there are some extinct Indo-European branches like Anatolian, Tocarians. Talking about Indo-European languages is very difficult because Indo-European have many sub-branch and each branch have their own innovations.
(1) Anatolian languages is the oldest attested Indo European languages. These languages are more archaic than many attested ancient Indo European languages. Although being archaic languages Anatolian languages verbs conjugation is very simple compared to ancient Indo European languages such as Sanskrit, ancient greek and classical Latin.
(2) Tocarian branch. Tocarian is the another extinct branch of Indo European family. Tocarian branch is also very interesting branch because it is the eastern most centum language. Phonologically Tocarian is very close to western centum languages like celtic, italic and germanic.
(3) Hellenic branch contains only greek. Greek is one of the most ancient Indo-European language that are still surviving today. There are many theories about greek language. Greek have many similarities and relations with Phygian, Armenian and many other Indo-Aryan languages. Greek is traditional classified as centum language but Greek phonology is such more common with satem language.
(4) Italic languages. Italic languages are group of Indo-European languages mainly spoken by Italian peninsula before roman expansion. Italic languages lost Indo-European dual number and instrumental case but italic languages developed complex subjunctive system. Italic languages is closely related to celtic languages. It's very hard to show other italic languages because Latin was the only italic language doesn't extinct. Other italic languages are extinct for over 1000 years. But as far as I know the oldest italic language was Umbrian. Italic languages are divided into two subdivision latino-faliscan languages also known as (latinian languages) and osco-umbrian languages(sabellic languages). As far as I know, aside from Latin the well known attested italic language was oscan. Oscan was the most archaic attested italic language probably all seballic languages are more archaic that latin. They still retained separated locative case but Latin was more likely to use propositions. Sabellic languages full retained secondary ending but latin only retained for the first person singular.
(5) Germanic languages. Germanic languages have strange features that are not founded in other IE language because proto germanic was mainly spoken in northern Europe. There are several hypothesis, before germanic speakers arrived northern Europe, there were unattested non IE language were spoken and these language merge with proto germanic. It's very hard to reconstruct proto Germanic because most of Germanic languages abandoned most of synthetic systems and become much more analytical languages.
Although Germanic was centum languages germanic was pretty close to stem one.
(6) Balto-slavic language. Balto-slavic languages are Indo-European language with satemic features. Balto-slavic languages are much more closer to Indo-Iranian languages because both of them are satemic languages. Some linguists said that Balto-Slavic and Indo-iranian were once single language. Some linguists said that Proto Baltic were centum language alongside with Germanic unlike slavic satemic language. But unlike other Indo-European languages balto-slavic fully retained dual number in grammar. Baltic language are much more older than slavic languages one theory shows that slavic languages are derived from west baltic language. Proto slavic was actually a dialect of western baltic branch and it dialect developed several grammertical innovations are become separate language but it was just an hypothesis.
(7) Indo-aryan languages. Indo Aryan branches have two subdivision Indic and Iranic. Indo-aryan languages are highly fusional and inflected they fully retained all of 8 Indo-European cases, dual number and many verb forms. The oldest attested indo aryan language was vedic sanskrit. Vedic Sanskrit retained many of IE grammatical features that are lost in other IE languages. But later classic Sanskrit lost singular masculine nominative marker s ending. Whatever thank you very much Mr Yair. Have a good day.
Amazing video! I personally think tho that Albanians are the descendents of illyrians tho it's a bit weird they only survived in the place where Albania is located today❤❤
Phonetic rules don't fully comply with that statement if Albanians had lived in Albania without being interrupted durrës according to Alb phonetic rules would be Durreq and Shkodër would be hadër.
However toponyms such as Nish,Sharr and Shtip are claimed to have entered slavic via Albanian phonetic rules which might show that Albanians did come from modern day kosovo and not mainland Albania.
@@notme1411 yeah when Albanians made contact with Slavs they were în today south Serbia and Kosovo, and then they migrated south into Albania and then back up in Kosovo
If that is what you believe, then good. The evidence is not very strong however.
interesting
5:41 😂😂😂 A for effort, but the name is actually Philippopolis, Philip-o-polis, the city of Philip
Yeah thank you, when I was reading the script over I realized I made the mistake. It's a bit of a tongue twister to try to say for me
@@CheLanguages
If you break the word into small parts, it will be easier to remember it and pronunce it:
Phil+ippo+polis
=
love+horse+city
Great video, by the way!
Does anybody know where Thracian came from? I’ve heard theories that it was an iranic language that migrated there, a paleo Balkan language, or even a hellenic language.
It seems to be its own branch for now. Satem could indicate a link to Balto-Slavic or even Indo-Iranian
With so little sources available , I would like to ask if there is any connection between Dacian and Albanian . In Romania , some linguist pretend that some Romanian words are rooted in Dacian language on the basis of their similarity with Albanian words . Or they say that those words which do not have a clear origin , should be rooted in Dacian language . I strongly disprove this theory and I see words similar with Albanian ones, as being brought by Vlach migration north of Danube . From Dacian language , we only have for sure, 20 names of plants translated in the era by a Greek . The rest are all suppositions . No inscriptions , no books remained after Dacians . Also origins of the Dacians is cloudy, in my opinion - not fully Thracian , but a late mixture of Getae with Sarmatians settled over an older Iranic population , named Agathyrsi and Celts . There is a similarity in toponyms - called -dava in Dacian and -deva in Thracian .
So , what is your opinion ?
תודה!
I wish people would be more consistent in using the word Türkiye with Türk or Türkçe though.
Saying Türkiye and keeping the word "Turkish" instead of "Türk(çe)" is like replacing the word Spain with España and still saying Spanish instead of español, or replacing Germany with Deutschland and still say German instead of deutsch, or replacing Hungary with Magyarország and still saying Hungarian instead of magyar.
You get the idea. But that's just my thought.
I’m pretty sure it’s because the country officially changed from “Turkey” to “Türkiye” in English, but iirc the word “Turkish” wasn’t changed. I assume it was just done because of the confusion with turkey the animal, and so changing the word “Turkish” wasn’t needed
This has Io do with Erdogan's very stupid petty nationalism. He thinks that the English-language name for Turkey reminds everyone too much of the fat tasty bird. (In fact, the bird was named after the country - or rather, named after another bird which was also eaten in Europe which originally came from Turkish traders.)
What these dumb Turkish nationalists don't seem to realize (incredibly) is that (1) they don't have any power over the English-language, which isn't theirs anyways; and (2) The spelling, sounds and (most critically) accented vowel character in the name they are demanding we use are completely alien to English.. Few native speakers are going to be persuaded to learn such alien phonemes and figure out how to type those characters.
This is very reminiscent of the Ivory Coast demanding the entire world only use the French spelling of their name (Côte D'ivoire). In the end, only map makers and government diplomats ever bothered to placate them.
For contrast ... The Czech Republic has asked English-speakers to call them Czechia. This is a much smarter move. The suffix -ia is already a commonplace ending in English for country names. And so, it's catching on without people really even taking much notice. When I remarked on some native speakers having made the switch recently, they didn't even know that it was something the Czech government wanted and assumed it was just the proper name.
I send my love to Israel in these difficult times.
I just use Turkey and Turkish. The Turkish government trying to impose their orthography on English ain't happening.
@@Cjinglaterra I get that, I’m not a fan of their current government much either. Still, in general governments and institutions tend to use the official name of the country, which is usually decided by said country’s government. The recent Czech Republic to Czechia and Swaziland to eSwatini changes come to mind. Of course this doesn’t affect colloquial speech much in the short term (I still hear “Czech Republic” a lot), but when making a video I can see why someone would just consistently use the official names.
I do think there’s some value in making the spelling different from turkey the animal, but I reckon the use of ü is very unnatural in English orthography. Maybe “Turkiye” or “Tuerkiye” could be a compromise
@@Cjinglaterra That's what İ mean. Either you stick to Turkey-Turkish or you switch to Türkiye-Türk(çe).
Mixing Türkiye and Turkish is an inconsistent hybrid like España-Spanish, Deutschland-German, Magyarország-Hungarian. 🥴
At least there is a common illyrian - albanian word that was mentioned in an ancient greek text: illyrian 'rinon' (mist) = gheg albanian 'ren' (cloud).
Interesting
I hoped you would be talking about dacian...
Fascinating.
I always try to imagine a paralel world in which those languages/cultures survived or at least existed for enough time to be recorded, also, i'm curious about something, did any word from those languages survived and exist in our modern day languages?
I am also curious on such scenarios, as I mentioned at the end of the video. If there's any remnants from these languages, it will be toponyms (place names) such as Plovdiv as I mentioned, and names, as there are names in Greek from all three languages but I am not sure how common they are in modern Greek
Which Illyrian names were used in Greece? I am curious.
I went to check the page on Proposed Illyrian Vocabulary, and I realized I was mistaken. It's Greek names that entered Illyrian, not the other way around. My mistake. Glaukios was a popular one apparently
The Thracian language branch should have included Dacian no? Or what scholarly theory are you going by?
Dacian is mostly considered to be separate
@@CheLanguages By whom? Dacians were a Thracian people as far as I can tell from every single history and linguistic study, apart from those that classify it as Baltic (which is a fringe theory) or apart of a singular Thraco-Ilyrian familly (that is most definitely simply a hypothesis). There have been linguistic studies done. I really urge you to read into it and tell me what you think, you may find it a good subject for a future video.
3:43 this map is slightly inaccurate, as it also shows parts of the coastline, and a large part of Macedonia, which were historically Greek speaking
Greek would come to dominate (and assimilate) the Thracians, but I think the map is showing how widely spoken it was at its greatest extent before the Hellenization of the region, similar to Phrygian
Keep in mind that Greeks, mostly from the central-south part, colonized he coastal areas of Northwest Aegean sea in their super ancient era of 1000BCE, stimulatd by the arrival of Dorian tribes in the central and southern Greek penninsula. This forced the southern tribes to swim across the pond, colonization the opposite side of the Aegean and Chalkidiki and Thrace. So, both your statement and the proposed extened area of Thacian pedominance might be correct, as as early as 800BCE indeed the coastline of Macedonia and Thrace had been hellenized, which is still a very ancient time point.
THE PHRYGIANS , the Mysians from Asia Minor are also Trakians, as the Moesians and the Geto-Dacians.
OK
As a Greek, with limited knowledge of classical Greek, provided by public school education, I am S h o c k e d to see the similarities between the Phrygian text and ancient Greek. Basically, this is how ancient Greek would look to me if I hadn't learned anything at school :P The Greek alpghabet might make me think they' re more similar than what they actually are... But if Plato says so, who am I to argue? Jokes aside, I can even pin point (I assume?) the translation pairs of a few words between Phrygian and English shown, based on the Greek equivalents.
I am now a supporter of the Hellenic-Phrygian branch theory, because it also feels lonely (and unrealistic) that Greek just consists its own branch with zero relatives.
Oh wow! It's great to hear a Greek perspective on this thank you so much. I didn't actually realize how close they are. Did you watch my Hellenic Languages videos?
@@CheLanguages hello, thanks for the very interesting content, as usual!
I have watched it, very informative. Not even us, modern Greeks, know and understand the plurality of our own language. Most Greeks have never heard of Tsakonian for sure. I think our government has done a brilliant job into assimilating us into one coherent nation. In the process, though we might have lost part of our local identities and culture, language most importantly
@@sarantis1995 it can be argued that perhaps the collective national unity was a good thing for modern Greece, but it still is sad to see centuries-old communities losing their local speech
@@CheLanguages exactly, for sure it has been pivotal for sustaining our small newly created nation state, curved out from the Ottoman Empire, and even expand it to its current borders, and even more so to the borders that briefly had during 1920 (Treaty of Sevres)
People of shared roors (roman/byzantine I would say) were supposed to collectively create a stable nation state and even come to identify with the ancient (and kinda long forgotten) past of the Greek city states etc. In this context people with distinct traditions, culture and even languages managed to unite without anyone questioning the coherence of our state. Many things can be said about modern Greeks, but we manage to stay indivisible as a nation and immune to separatist elements, the likes of which have been growing in prominence in rest of Europe (not everywhere ofc but still)
@@sarantis1995 thank you for the information
Alb. jo (not) seems similar to Fryg.ioi (not)., although its etymology is thought to be Turkish yok. Ilija Čašule argues, somewhat convincingly, for a link between Burushaski dialects and Frygian/Brygian & paleo-balcanic languages. He thinks that either these links are ancestral, meaning the Burusho people came through Central Asia along with Proto-Indo-Iranians or that they came with the armies of Alexander the Great. The books are Burushaski Etymological Dictionary, The Indo-European Etymology of the Phrygian Theonym Sīlēnō̄s and the Burushaski Royal Name Silúm, Names of plants of Mediterranean and Balkan origin in Burushaski, Burushaski Shepherd Vocabulary of Indo-European Origin, Evidence for a Burushaski-Phrygian connection.
It's interesting that most modern Kentucky languages have undergone palatalization: becoming satem in a sense. Spanisg "ciento", English "cheese" are examples. I think the kentum/satem division is overblown in importance as it looks at one phonetic process.
Kentum languages
Kentucky languages 💀
I agree that it may be overblown in proportion, it's just interesting that Thracian is satem
@@CheLanguages
For sure. Sorry about "Kentucky" languages. Spanish spell check on WhatsApp did that. 😵💫
@@erichamilton3373 no worries, it gave me a good laugh
2:22 the link between Albanians and Illyrians is heavily disputed though because the Illyrians were Latinized. It was only propagated in Albania itself by the Communist Hoxha regime, which also claimed that the Albanians are the descendants of the Pelasgians, a completely outlandish claim still commonly believed by many Albanians (for reference, the Pelasgians are the pre-IndoEuropean peoples that inhabited Greece, possibly related to the Minoan culture, which mixed with the IndoEuropean Hellenic speakers to create the Greek nation). They claim, thus, that Zeus was in reality Albanian, and not Greek
🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
Exactly, I predicted the Albanian nationalists because I had them in my comments before on my Hellenic Languages video. It makes me wonder what they teach in Albanian schools...
The Illyrians being heavily latinised doesn't necessarily prevent Albanian from descending from Illyrian, because Albanian is full of Latin-derived words including some very basic vocabulary. The tidiest explanation remains that Albanian is descended from Illyrian or a related language nearby.
@@lewis9159 thing is the Illyrian language went extinct. Albanian is most likely a language belonging to the Paleo-balkan group, related to Illyrian, but more like a sister language to it
@@CheLanguages I've actually done a related project for university, and I was shocked to find out that the Hoxha-era propaganda about the Illyrians and the Pelasgians has been continued even to the modern day!
What about Tokharian, Sogdian ?
Sogdian was Iranian, and modern Yaghnobi is closely related to it.
Another time...
8:00 How close or far are we from considering a Phrygo-Germanic connexion possible?
Phrygian in Indo-European words of such consonants does show sth like Grimm's Law.
Interesting link, I've not read anything about it. They're both IE of course, but I can't say how close they are.
Great to see you back, another great video. Always great to hear you casually dropping into Hebrew....רק מילה בעברית חודרת
אל עורקיי, אל נשמת י
על לא דבר, אני שמח שנהנית את הסרטון!
What about other anatolian languages such as Hittite, Luwian, Hittite etc.?
I've spoken about them before in an old video that is currently private but I think I'll make it public again
At first Phrygians was leaving in northern Greece between Illyrians and proto-Macedonians Greeks, and after the collapse of bronze age moved to Anatolia and enstablish their new kingdom in the area of previous Hittites Kingdom.
Yes, some Phrygians stayed behind in Macedonia apparently
Most interesting!
Thank you!
what about dacian, panonnian, and lydian?
Dacian is usually considered to be close or a even a dialect of Thracian
I don't think there was a distinct Pannonian branch, maybe you meant Pannonian Romance or Paeonian
Lydian was part of Anatolian
Albanians and Armenians have all sorts of folk historical linguistic and folk archeological theories -- although probably not as many as the Indians. 😊
I'm aware Armenians do too, they just don't tend to watch my videos. I don't understand why they both fight over it so much when clearly everyone spoke Tamil! 💀
Where do Albanians descent from then? They just appeared from no where speaking an indo european language?
@@ttterg6152 jokes aside Albanian is confirmed to be an Indo European Paleo-Balkan language not denied by anyone except for Serbs. It most likely descends from Illyrian or at least a sister language to it just like Messapic, it was most likely the language that Dardanians spoke considering there are many toponyms there that underwent classic Albanian sound changes such as Nish, Shtip and more.
Incredibly, Phrygian is NOT an extinct IE branch. The subject was obscure in scholarship, but some people living in Kashmir, s.l., the Burushaski, still speak Phrygian. They attribute to themselves a non-legendary origin as colonists in the time of Alexander the Great. Deity Bas probably same as Indian Pushan, quasi Greek Pan (Pan is two original names, one equal to Pushan (*Pahon) other in archaic Greek *Pawon, a wind and war God. Armenian is IE branch closest to Greek branch, and in s.l. included northern Anatolian languages excluding Lydian in classical period, as well as Thracian, but not Dacian {an Albanian relative), and also probably includes the scantily attested Kassite language of mid ii millennium BCE Mesopotamia, reached via the eastern shore of the Caspian Sea and through the Zagros Mountains. If I remember correctly, archaeologically this is the Srubnaya Culture. Indo-Iranian speakers were further east, including upper Ural River area, and cis-Azov area, the Sintashta Culture.
I did a video on language isolates. There is no evidence for Phrygian and Burushaski having any sort of relation
Have you heard of the tocharien languages
Yes. My friend made a video on them and I gave him a shoutout once (Ling King). If I make a part 2 for this I'm definitely going to talk about it here too
Please a video about Chadic languages
Suggestions:
Lusitanian
Elymian
Paeonian
Mysian
Thank you, but I already spoke about Lusitanian. Check out my video of languages of the Iberian Peninsula
5:53
this intruiged me because there is a romanian town called deva not too far north of where thrachians would have lived
sadly it seems it was founded around the 1200s and it's name just means woman in slavic
lesson learned, stop researching stuff and let your imagination fill in the gaps cuz that's way more fun
You never know, there might be a link. I know some place names in Romania do use "deva" from Thracian as well
@@CheLanguagesIs Plovdiv related to the -deva ending?
Last picture is Split, Croatia.
I know, it's such a beautiful city I couldn't think of anywhere better, especially as Illyrian was once spoken in the area
Everyone always forgets about Chudistani.
I don't find anything?
i was looking away from the screen for a second at the end and thought you said frisian was the last extinct language
HAHA I didn't notice how close they sound until I was editing the video and had a similar moment
You chose Split, Croatia for the intro picture 👍
One of the most beautiful cities in the Mediterranean, how could I not?
Nice video, I like this topic. Were you speaking Hebrew at the beginning of the video?
Also, the Indo-Iranian branches are also Satem.
Yes, Indo-Iranian languages are not in Europe per se (unless you count Ossetian) and I mentioned it's an East/West divide more or less. I did forget to mention that Slavic is also Satem.
And yes, I speak Hebrew at the beginning and end of each of my videos
@@CheLanguagesyes it's primarily an east-west divide, but the furthest Eastern Indo-European language Tocharian is believed to have been centum.
Are you from Israel, or do you just like the Hebrew language, or both ?
Can you do a video on Deilami
Probably not a full video but I could mention it or make a short on it
@@CheLanguages that would be good enough thank you
Isn’t Illyrian a descendant of Latin?
No...
I believe there is one more indo-european branch: Tocharian
I swear the entirety of my youtube feed posted at the same time
Interesting, I guess it's a good time for audiences
@@CheLanguages Love your videos btw man!
@@lildiabeto Thank you!
Langue trois? Not Language (French pronunciation) A Trois?
Language is not a French word, maybe you mean "langage" ? "Langue" is language more literally whereas "Langage" is used to imply register, like «langage formel». This distinction isn't really made in English.
@@CheLanguages The French pronounciation is just to make the pun work.
@@Monothefox I don't understand the pun sorry
@@CheLanguages menage-a-trois
Illyrians melted into South Slavs, whom of the Thracians into Bulgarians
Just as they'd assimilated into Greeks and Romans before?
Phrygians were totally relatives of Greeks,it is the only language which was closer to Greek than any other languages that even Plato made some connection to they language and Greek(Phrygian may also be related to Armenian).
Indeed it was, that's why the theory that they're connected existes. Maybe it was the bridge to Armenian
@CheLanguages I mean Armenian is the only language isolate that has some connection to Greek(without being influenced by it like other languages)
@@zeropsaft Yes, again they're all linked. I believe Armenian is closer to Greek than say Slavic, but they are by no means mutually intelligible.
@@CheLanguages yep
What about Tocharian and Hittite?
Hittite I've discussed before, Tocharian will be another video
tocharian in the corner:
Another video, plus my friend Ling King did a video on it which I've shouted out before
@@CheLanguages ooo ok
בואו* נתחיל
אמרתי את זה, תסתכל על הכתוביות
אה, זה נשמע כמו "בוא"
@@VaderFuntime כנראה המיקרופון שלי
5:30 Interestingly though, the Tocharian languages seem to be Kentum languages.
Indeed, it's like the opposite of Phrygian in a sense. They also had blonde hair genes, so there's some theories that they migrated from Europe
Indo-European unused content?
You do realise that “yallah” is an Arabic word consisting of “ya” + “allah” right?
Yes, but it's so integrated as Hebrew slang now that it's basically just become it's own Hebrew words too, the meanings can be different depending on context. Same with Wallah
I had this on in the background, and I heard 'Phrygian', and I just shouted, "Frisian isn't extinct!";
Yeah someone else said the same, plus I was confused when I was editing the video and heard it a second time. I never realized they're so close
Centum and satem is not based on west vs east but old vs new. satem was a late PIE innovation.
Fair enough. Generally they are split geographically, but I completely forgot that Slavic is also Satem
Yeah just thinking about what those languages were like... hard to imagine Indo-European being anything else than what we have today, but it must've been something entirely different, and that's fascinating.
Indeed, alternate history scenarios for these languages can run wild on what could have happened
9:00 _"for once"_ ?
The Romans had no policy of exterminating languages. They just had a policy of imposing Latin, much like English was imposed in Dehli without exterminating Hindustani ...
Well it was sort of a joke, but they did have a habit of exterminating minority languages, even if it was indirectly. Give the British 150 more years in India and I'm sure Hindustani would have been on this video instead
@@CheLanguages I don't think this is really what happened.
Up to Visigoths and Franks, Gaulish, Basque and Ligurian were doing just fine (OK, I was wrong about Ligurian, but that area was conquered well before the rest of Gaul so ...).
People were typically bilingual in Latin and Basque, Latin and Gaulish.
Enter Germanic overlords. Basque and Gaulish became the third most important language rather than the second most important one. Trilingualism is less common than bilingualism, I'd say even in very polyglot areas, but certainly in those that aren't. The area of Basque was reduced. Gaulish disappeared or merged with Breton in a very reduced area.
There could be a bunch of languages that went lost inbetween the branches, in the zones between Italic and Celtic, between Celtic and Germanic, between Germanic and Baltic or Slavic. Some of them even are not attested with names. At least, one culture in late antiquity kinda got a name and confused Roman historians for being something inbetween Germanic and Slavic by their looks and habits.
I would have to do some research to get their name...
It's very possible. It's unlikely we'll ever find out, though you never know! (As the case with Kalašma proves)
Please do let me know if you discover it
Also I thought Phrygian was a Hellenic language
Well, I might be... Græco-Phrygian could be the answer. The only reason I wouldn't personally classify Phrygian as Hellenic because it shares features with Armenian, indicating a closer link. Phrygian could be seen as the bridge between Greek and Armenian
Regarding the Illyrian and Thracian languages,it's impossible to clasify them as extinct,when you admit you know nothing about them,and when you have the living Albanian language.The terms ""Illyrian" and "Thracian" are geographical terms from foreign authors,to denote the different Kingdoms of that area,the Kingdoms may have spoke closely related languages,but they were all "ThracoIllyrians",so if you admit that Albanian is a paleobalcanic language,then 100% it descends from the languages of those ancient pre-Roman Kingdoms,with of course Latin influence from the Roman period,as the early Albanians or Arvonites,are mentioned in the 6th century as citizens of illyricum by Stephanus of Byzantium, and they were well integrated in the Roman society....
Nowadays it's believed Albanian language descends from ancient Dardania due to phonetic rules that fit such a (western-central balkan population)and they were an independent yet related people mostly akin to Illyrians
Albanians have three major y haplogroups J2b(found mostly in Dalmatia pronably Illyrian),E-V13 (Mostly found in thracia) and R1b whom were indo-european languages were spread from
What is interesting is Kosovo Albanians tend to have more E-V13 at around 50-60% while northern Albanians are less E-V13 and more J2b.There is no debate of who brought the language as the ones who did are the R1b yamnaya which makes it even fuzzy to find out
Direct Ancient Greek loans to proto-Albanian only come from ancient macedonians who bordered dardanians while doric greek loans come from a second tongou(possibly Illyrian proper from Taulantians)
Anyways all of these are theories but there are two projects on Albanian language that will surely help figure it out where it was spoken in antiquity.
That's fair. They were probably close, but not descended from Albanian
Half of Iranian languages are also extinct
True
More cool features the devs removed 😢
There's a Deva in western Romania.
Makes sense, they had some influence. Also Dacian was somewhat closely related
@@CheLanguages and a Deba, RO, north of Beograd. It translates into Hungarian vár, German Burg. Slavic grad. Celtic dun, whence town
Back in the 1990's when I was studying Classical philology at uni, it was commonly stated that most scholars expected a relationship to exist between modern Albanian and ancient Illyrian but that so far no one had been able to prove any such connection.
There is a connection, but it's not so recent. They're both IE, but I highly doubt Albanian directly descends from Illyrian. Albania was highly Latinized anyway so it wouldn't be a "pure" form
😀
Thank you
Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians so they did make the cut
They aren't. Did you watch the video? This is just Communist propaganda from the Hoxha régime
@@CheLanguages Source: just trust me bro
@@hshdjdjsjjsjs6075 and your source? The all-knowing dictator Hoxha?
A minute of silence for the fallen
How sad it is
The Illyrian hypothesis for Albanians' early history didn't originate from Albanian academics but from western ones. And it isn't one that needs much convincing. From what we can construct and narrow down Albanians' urheimat, it seems to broadly line up with where Illyrian was spoken, so it isn't as much of a stretch to claim Albanian is a branch of Illyrian or that Albanians descend from Illyrians. We already know the latter is true thanks to genetic analysis.
I see your point, but it is accepted that Albanian is its own branch. Also Albanian has been heavily Latinized, if 'pure' Albanian were still spoken, it might make it easier to define it's place. Personally I am still not convinced of their link
5:04 Sorry, but actually both Baltic and Slavic are satem!
Of course. I mentioned Baltic, but accidentally left out Slavic
@@CheLanguages some imagine they are one thing, which does not correspond to current classifications, at least ...
@@hglundahl Balto-Slavic, I've heard it many times. I believe the consensus is that they were one, but split in the last 1000 years or something
@@CheLanguages Oh, no ... each emerged in written form in the last 1000 to 1500 years, but _if_ they were one, they probably split about as early as Verner's Law or sth ...
Proto-Balto-Slavic language (wiki)
2nd m. BCE - _c. 8th cen BCE_
There is however a dispute whether they split in two or in three, that is whether West Baltic (Prussian) and East Baltic (Lithuanian and Latvian) split considerably later, comparable to East, South and West Slavic, or whether the split was threefold, West Baltic, East Baltic, Slavic.
Early.
Incredibly early
Europe has Satem languages. Slavic and Baltic languages.
I mentioned Baltic but I had skipped over the fact that Slavic is also Satem. Thank you
Illyrian still exists, it's the official language of Albania.
Did you watch the video?
@@CheLanguages Yes.
@@buurmeisje did you hear what I said about Albanian?
@@CheLanguages Yes.
@@buurmeisje well? Albanian is not descended from Illyrian, this myth stems from Hoxha propaganda
Where were Albanians and where do they come from if they're not Illyrians? Sorry dislike and closed the video.
Average Angry Albanian
@@CheLanguages I'm Finnish. How would you explain where Albanians and the language came from then if not being autochthonous to the Balkans?
The main alternate theory is that Albanian is a descendant of Daco-Moesian, as suggested by Bulgarian linguist Vladimir I. Georgiev, however, this theory is less popular than the Illyrian theory.
@@Nastya_07 I've not heard that one before actually
@@ThePussukka they're still Indo-Europeans, they're just in a different branch to the Illyrians. Same way that Germanic and Slavic are different branches.
It’s AD, not CE, thank you.
I will say CE not AD, thank you. I'm not a follower of the Xpistian faith
@@CheLanguages It rude and offensive to say CE. No one cares what faith you follow or don’t.
Trully to say, I don't understand why you don't use the native English names for Montenegro and Thrace. To me, you just try to sound posh. The whole Thracian segment needs to be reworked in my opinion.
Well first of all, I think Crna Gora sounds much more beautiful. Second of all, the Italian name doesn't sound so politically correct and I don't want anyone cutting out my words with malicious intent. Thracia sounds ugly in English, the Latin pronunciation is superior as are most Latin pronunciations. People have called me posh all my life. I'm not, I just like to use native pronunciations to be respectful
@CheLanguages But the name in English isn't Thracia. It is Thrace, which comes from the Greek Θράκη. I know it's your project, and you can do with it whatever you want, but the inconsistencies just bug me. Using native names like Crna Gora, then Latin names like Thracia and then English names just looks strange. I would have stuck to using just English names, even if I may dislike some of them.
@@jivkoyanchev1998 yeah but English is cringe
@@CheLanguages Uno Reverse -> you're cringe
@@jivkoyanchev1998 if you like Uno that automatically makes you cringe
"We are Illyrian!"🇦🇱🧔🏿♂️
Did you even watch the video?
Oh wait I just realized you're being ironic, at least I hope so
Illyrje wie in oare namme foar Servje.
Real
@@CheLanguages Ja wier. De Serven sprieken de Ald-Servyske taal, dy't mear eleminten fan it Illyrysk hie as it hjoeddeiske Servysk. Like you wrote Syrillic in English, just remove S and C and wrote Illyricum, it's same.
@@mladenzrnic2669 are you speaking Dutch? As a Serb?
@@CheLanguages Ik wenje yn de provinsje Fryslân, dus ik praat Frysk
@mladenzrnic2669 a serb nationalist who's frisian, bizzadre
indo europoor
Real
Albanian is an Illyrian language, so they are very much NOT extinct.
He mentions it. It can't be proven.
Did you hear what I said in the video ?
@@bunk_fossindeed. Again, they are related because they're both Indo-European, but they're probably not that close. I predicted the Albanian nationalists LOL
@@CheLanguages The relation is not simply "because they're both Indo-European" LOL. Even if it isn't the predecessor of Albanian (which it probably isn't) its relation is far closer (paleo-balkanic closer).
@@CheLanguages if there's not enough evidence to categorise Albanian as descending from illyrian or thracian, how is there enough evidence to say for sure that they're "not that close"? "Not that close" seems to imply Albanian comes from further afield, but there's no evidence of a major indo-european speaking migration into the balkans during the roman period. Certainly not one early enough to explain the very strong influences of Latin on early Albanian.
Pseudo-Indo-European-hypothesis that's since years refuted.
Albanian by any chance?
Said no modern expert linguist ever
@@Nastya_07 LOL
You do not make a distinction between Phrygian and Frisian. Frisian, spoken in the Northern province of Fryslân, has been granted local official language status too. Bad job.
I didn't need to make a distinction because everyone knows what Frisian is. Phrygian sounds different. That's on you if you were confused
@@CheLanguages You are the one who is confused. Few people know about Frisian language as it is still illegal in many places. Your refusal to make the distinction is another assault on our language.
@@TomTom-rh5gk what?! Frisian has official status in the Netherlands as a minority language, it is not illegal we don't live in the 19th Century. I've made videos on Frisian before, people know the difference it isn't that hard to differentiate between Phrygian and Frisian.
@@CheLanguages Denmark does not have a general legal provision to protect the Frisian language.Frisian is an official language in Friesland, but it is not legally codified as such by the Dutch government.
@@TomTom-rh5gk ok, but it's got it's own province and protection in the Netherlands