Illyrian Language - An Insight into a Lesser Known Indo-European Language
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2023
- 🔍 Let's get stuck into the secrets of the Illyrian language with Learn Hittite! 📝
🗝️ Join us as we explore this ancient language, recently featured in a Roman army film, with insights from Croatian linguist Ranko Matasovic. Discover the challenges of studying Illyrian, attested through glosses and a handful of words.
📚 Dive into debates on its geographical reach, historical context, and connections to languages like Venetic and Messapic. Explore linguistic theories, from Illyro-Albanian links to the influence of Celtic.
🌐 Learn about a fascinating (but false) Illyrian inscription and gain glimpses of the language through glosses. We will also talk about Pan-Illyrism, which was a ‘fashion’ amongst linguists to throw anything looking indo-european that couldn’t be placed elsewhere into the category of ‘Illyrian’
🔍Find out how Matasovic approached creating Illyrian text for a film and the intriguing linguistic landscape. Don't miss our recommended articles for a deeper dive into Illyrian mysteries! 📖✨
📖 References and Selected Reading List:
⭐ Ligorio, O. (2023, November 16-18). The (Re)construction of Illyrian for the Motion Picture Illyricum. Fundamentals and Advances in Balkan Linguistics, Belgrade University.
⭐ Katicic, R. (1976). Part 1 Ancient Languages of the Balkans. Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter Mouton. doi.org/10.1515/9783111568874
⭐ Bidjin Laura, I., Matasović, R. i Matović, P. (2022). Prevođenje na latinski i ilirski jezik za film Illyricum. Latina et Graeca, 2 (42), 152-155. Preuzeto s hrcak.srce.hr/292044
Krahe, H. (1955-1964). Die Sprache der Illyrier, 2 vol. (Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz). Vol. 1: 1955; Vol. 2: 1964
Krahe, H. (1955-1964). Die Sprache der Illyrier, 2 vol. (Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz). Vol. 1: 1955; Vol. 2: 1964]
Russu I.I. (1969). Illirii; istoria - limba și onomastica - romanizarea [The Illyrians; history - language and onomastics - the Romanization](București: Editura Academiei).
Pokorny, J. (1938). Zur Urgeschichte der Kelten und Illyrier. Halle: Max Niemeyer.
Ognenov, L. (1958). Ilirskij nadpis ot severna Albanija [The Illyrian inscription from North Albania]. In Izsledvanija v cest na akademik D. Decev (Eds.: V. Beševliev - VI. Georgiev) (Sofija: Academy Press), 333-341.
Leonidas-Romanos Davranoglou, Aris Aristodemou, David Wesolowski, Alexandros Heraclides, (2023). Ancient DNA reveals the origins of the Albanians.bioRxiv 2023.06.05.543790
Gavranovic, M. (2007). Kontakte zwischen Zentralbosnien und Zentralitalien in der Spätbronzezeit. In Piceni ed Europa.
Heiermeier, A. M. (1952). “The British and Goidelic Element in Ireland”: Notes and Suggestions on T. F. O’Rahilly’s: Early Irish History and Mythology. The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, 82(1), 37-44. www.jstor.org/stable/25510805
Mesihović, S. (2023). Tajna natpisa broj 46417 / Secret of Inscription number 46417. University of Sarajevo. www.researchgate.net/publicat...
#protoindoeuropean
#illyrian
#balkans
#linguistics #ancientcivilizations #ancientlanguages
#albania #albanianhistory
...Neacșu's Letter (Scrisoarea lui Neacșu de la Câmpulung) from 1521 is formally considered the first known written document in Romanian. ..Romanian and Albanian are two close languages and it is interesting that the oldest records in those languages appeared at the same time.
I have seen the film "Illyricum" . And I have privilege to know prof. Ranko Matasović from days when I was a student of History and Slavistics at University of Zagreb. Also, I have a copy of book "Ancient languages of the Balkans" by prof. Radoslav Katičić. My final thesis at the History department was about origin of Etruscans. About Illyrian language.... Roman writers were making distinctions between "Illyrii propriae dicti" and other nations of "Illyricum" in wider sense, placing "Illyrii propriae dicti" in area of mostly modern Montenegro (Crna Gora = Black Mountain) and to the southernmost part of modern Croatia, making the river Neretva as most northern border of their influence; and to the south only small part of north of modern Albania. Why was that so, and why Romans didn't consider entire area of modern Albania as "Illyricum in sensu stricto", I dont know. It could be that Romans named as "Illyricum propriae dicti" exclusively only that area where specific "Illyrian kingdom" as dynastic tribal state was developed. Romans have entered into conflict with Illyrian kingdom during the 3rd and 2nd century BC, especially because of Illyrian piracy on Adriatic. Namely, illyrians were attacking and plundering ships belonging to the Greek colonies as, for example, those of Issa (modern day island Vis). An arrogant answer received from Illyrian queen Teuta and especially the killing of official Roman envoys were the cause of the war in 229/228 BC. Not only that: after the initial defeat by Romans, Illyrian kingdom started to making anti-Roman alliance with Macedonians during the Second Punic war (218-201), when Hannibal of Carthage had his campaign in Italy (Hannibal ante portas!). This was the cause of final destruction of "Illyrian kingdom"; Ardieii, the leading tribe was resettled from coast and forced to interior. Although, Greeks were using name Illyris for area of modern Albania. It was tribal region with: Penestai living in north (to the east of Penestae nation), and the Taulanti were inhabitants closer to the sea coast, where Greek Doric colonies Epidamnos (Dyrrhachium, modern Albanian city Durres, in Slavic: Drač) and Apollonia were established; to the south of Taulanti were Parauaei and Chaones, already nations belonging to the ancient Epirus, although today in southern Albania.In Greek writers we can read the story how Illyrians attacked city Phoenice in territory of Chaones (in vicinity of island Corcyra /Corfu). In Greek mythology hero Kadmos and his wife Harmonia settled among Chaones. However, we dont know nothing about language of Dalmatae, who were the strongest nation in area to the north of river Neretva; they fought many wars against Romans from 2nd century BC till the last, Batonic war in years 6 to 9 AD.The province of Dalmatia was named after them. And Roman colonia Salonae (at location of modern town Solin) near city Split, was the capital of province Dalmatia. From the river Krka, the northern neighbours of Dalmatae were nation of Liburni in area where today is city Zadar (in antiquity known as Iadera and Diadora). Liburnians also hold all the islands between Zadar and peninsula of Istria. In ancient times, before 6th century BC, Liburni were known to Greeks as a skilful seamen. The only word known from Liburnian language is "Anzotica", the name of Venus/Aphrodita . In film Illyricum that name is mentioned. It is possible that words in Croatian and Serbian language: kiša (rain) and vatra (fire) have pre-Slavic origin, because other Slavic languages for "fire" have "ogień" , ogon, ogan and similar (in Croatian language also exists word "oganj" (archaic), in Kaikavian dialect: ogenj; and rain (in Croatian: kiša) in other Slavic languages is mostly as in Polish: "deszcz" (dešč/dežđ also in Kaikavian and in Slovenian) or archaism "dažd" in shtokavian ... Some linguists consider word "vatra" as derivation from Latin "atrium" with typical prothetic Slavic voice /v/; that word is attested also in Albanian and in Romanian language and what is especially interesting in language of people Lemki (Ruthenians, subdivision of Ukrainians, historical inhabitants of Carpathian mountain region on todays border between Poland and Ukraina); so called "Lemkivske vatri" manifestation (search in internet) ... As it seems, word "vatra" in Romanian has meaning not of fire as it is, but of "fireplace". Intriguing is that in ancient Iranian language of Avesta exists word "athar"; with typical Slavic prothesis /v/ + athar, this could be also source for word "vatra". Also interesting is that in Albanian language is word "mir" meaning "good"; in South Slavic and in Ukrainian "mir" means "peace", and in Russian can also have meaning "world". It would be good thing to compare the lexic (vocabulary) of Slavic languages and of Albanian language and to see all possible borrowed words.
Thanks for the video! It seems like things are more or less about where they were when I was in college back around the year 2000 (although I was an Engineering major, so probably not the best position to know the latest and greatest in Indo-European studies).
Regardless, these ancient minority languages which are scarcely attested are a dime a dozen, and Illyrian is one of the more important ones (for example, the languages of the Sea Peoples are even more of a mystery).
I guess that save for a sudden discovery of a cache of Illyrian texts, this is where the state of the art will remain for the foreseeable future...
Illyrian, Thracian, Scythian...seems like all three are claimed by various modern nation-states as ancestors. But how can we be sure?
We can't be sure, at least in the case of Illyrian
@@LearnHittiteyeah right😂 how come only Albanians always clame that are the Illyrians and nobody has an idea where we come from. Did we just fall from the sky one night or were we there before all others 😂
@@LearnHittitemate we literally have LESS evidence about the other languages
@@user-kb5py3hm2e There is evidence. Just google "Illyrian Personal Anthroponyms" for scientific proof, but it doesnt fit mainstream and Albanian history so people dont wanna talk about it.
It's so simple it's pre Albanian pelazgian related language so it's Albanian original
Bardhyll king have 100% translate bardh-white yll-star whitestar
Brilliant video. So, am I correct in my understanding that you more or less think Albanian should be considered it's descendant?
The evidence is extremely limited so we have to bear that in mind but put it this way, if someone asked me for some reason to recreate a sentence in Illyrian - I'd do exactly what Matasovic did and base it on Albanian.
@@LearnHittite I lean this way myself. It also used to be widely thought that Albanian descended from Thracian, but, not sure how much of a thing that still is. Anyway, excellent work, thank you.
First fix map and then greek population never existed in balkan. All balkan were illyria
@@historyofillyria2737First learn history!😂
Nephilim it means the begining you all have it written in each bible including 40 saints with Albanian origin
Fantastic video!
Glad you liked it!
Do you know anything about Hurrian?
A video on Hurrian will appear in the first week of the new year!
Sir , i like your videos really much. Could you consider making a video on the also mysterious Thracian or ancient Macedonian language ❤
Thracian will be the second video in the new year! Expect it towards the end of January.
@@LearnHittite thanks for your work sir. I will tell my friends about this channel.
Thank you very much for your support!
Refer to Leibniz for albanian language
Also the latest publication in Science journal which qualifies albanian, together with helenic and armenian languages, as more than 8000 years
👍👍👍 Interesting!!
Very informative greek language lessons, can we have more of the same?
Excellent.
10:45 Deu a dai sounds to me like Dheu a dai, meaning Earth is heroic/noble. Or read back to front Dai i dheut, meaning ~Hero of Earth, or earthen hero.
Dai is also pretty archaic and mostly used as an adjective nowadays, not as a name in itself. Dai also sounds like Dhi-a to me, meaning goat.
Zašto ne učimo više o našim precima ilirima koji su živili ba ovim prostorima u školama nije mi jasno učimo o markomanima i latinima nije mi jasno?
I wish I can help you but tru archeological research will prove the truth
The Albanian connection is dubious to say the least. The small amount of words recorded makes it easy to swing the theory in any way you want. Just by using your own examples I can explain 'sica' with Slavic root word meaning 'to cut' *sěkti. 'Sabaia' can be explained with Slavic word for 'oat' *zobъ, being an oat-beer of sort.
Edit: Sibina as spear can also be explained with South Slavic 'svib' meaning dogwood. Dogwood was widely used in the ancient world for spears and the 'v' in old Slavic was most likely pronounced as /w/ which is why it is often omitted in Greek writings.
Slavic ? Come on man , dont make the whole world foolish as you are
Are you really trying to turn slavs into illyrians? Youre traitors to the culture, maybe you are genetically illyrian, but you have lost all the language and culture. Illyrian myths remain in Albanian culture and language to this day.
Well since the DNA science is now available there is going to be more work done in Albania and Kosova with old bones and new digs.
Nënë
@christopherellis2663 - That is Albanian so the word NANA that everyone uses for grandma in states is NOT Italian it IS ALBANIAN!
So NËNË / NANË/ = NANA means mom in ALBANIAN ✌️
Ment Albanian
Beer = zobaja, not sobaia. Beer is made from zob 😅
Only Albanians use names Like Agron, Liburn, Dardan, Ilirë, Teuta So there is no doubt that Albanians are descendents of Ilirians
Nationalist sentiment leads people to name their children in a way which fits their narrative even if there's no cultural or historic basis in doing so. None of those names were used in the past.
Indeed we are , and its only matter of time now for the truth to come out for what it is , the greek propaganda its coming to an end preatty fast.
@@iliadmalka you speak of truth ? But you have no proof … I can show you Ancient Greek can you show me ancient Albanian ?
@@davidscwimer1974 proof !!? Well if language its not enaugh for you ( by the way its the only language in which all those proofs u have of about greeks make sense ) just wait , time will give u tons of proofs . Untill than i wish u well.
@@iliadmalka time 😂 this theory has been around since the communist era in Albania! How much time do you need ?
It’s funny how nobody has been able to prove the Albanian Illyrian theory properly … everything is just conjecture
@davidscwimer1974- The word
Illirian Is Albanian - that means
Free or Some spell it Ylliri -in Albanian that mean Youngstar !!
What more proof do u want !?
@@UnlimitedAspirations24 how are you using modern Albanian written in an Italian alphabet to find a meaning of a word that was coined by the Greeks and then the romans 😂wake up 🔝
@@davidscwimer1974 How were these words coined?Whats their etymology. An example please.If possible the etymology of the greek word FISIS and the latin NATURAE.Thank you.
@@pranveraohri1204
Etymology:
The name “Illyrian” is derived from “Illyrii,” which was the name used by the ancient Greeks and Romans to describe the people living in this region. It is not a modern Albanian name 😂
Show me how you come to the conclusion of what it means using modern Albanian … I love those !
@@davidscwimer1974david stop hating accept the truth u look like 8 years old kid man come on little boy 😂
The Albanian language has a strong resemblance to the Messapic language,Illyrian or not,it has ancient roots and its attested early.On the other hand there is absolutely no proof that the irish and scottish people descended from celts,as there is no recorded celtic migration in these lands,the celts were propably primitive tribes which spoke different languages and went extinct.But also the Illyrian ethnonym is wrong,because in these lands there were organised Kindoms such the Ardiaean Kingdom,the Kingdom of the Dardanians,and the Kingdom of the Taulantians,no such thing as" Illyrians" they were called Illyrians by others.The film Illyricum do not illustrate the true culture of these people, and portrays them as uncivillised as the celts or the germanics,and mind you the terms "celts" and "germanics" are not correct as we do not know how these tribesmen called themselves
Are you serious? All of England was Celtic before AngloSaxon invasions and so was most of Europe. Celts even invaded south all the way to Greece which is attested by historians before they were defeated and returned north. Where is Albanian language ever attested?
@@fallenstate5933 All England were celltic,since when?there is no recorded celtic migration there.And Albanian is closely related to Messapian language .And "celts" is an exonym that other people gave to these probably unrelated tribes....
@@user-xk4ug5du5z You will find the influence of Celts and Celtic languages in England in Wales and Ireland very much so. Yes there is recorded celtic migration to England before the AngloSaxons moved there from todays Denmark(because they were Scandinavian tribes). It's an interesting theory that Albanian is related to Messapian with no conclusive evidence though. If it were, how is it possible Albanian never got an alphabet? The whole of Europe used an alphabet, for gods sake even the barbarian Slavs got educated and given an alphabet
@@fallenstate5933 Acording to your logic even the Romans got no alphabet also,because they adapted a form of the Greek one which in turn propbly derived from the Phoenician one,now the Athenians also got no alphabet?The Messapians used the Greek one,and the whole of Europe uses the Latin,except Greece and some Slavic countries which use the Cyrillic, of course Albanians use the Latin one since the early Albanians were well integrated in the Roman society and the nobles communicated in writen forms with Latin and later on the high middle ages that changed to Attic Greek.On the other hand how can you prove that Britain and Ireland was Celtic,the Celtic theory invented in the 18th century,none of those people called themselves celts before,and even the Roman's called the tribes of Scotland "Picts" and "Calledonians"in the 3rd century, were on earth do you see Celts?Ireland in those times was unexplored territory, since nothing new nothing about it.Plus Slavs were not barbarians because it's a fact they descent from Scythians and Sarmatians,sophisticated peoples which recorded in lands which Slavs appeared...
@user-xk4ug5du5z - Illiria is the name for all the Tribes. Messapic is an illiran Tribe so are the Etruscans and lots more tribes ✌️
It’s probably closer to a Greek dialect then any other language
I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned that the Greeks knew and wrote more then anyone else about the Illyrians
What a strange little comment. It's not a dialect of Greek but a sister language.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 greks
Kings and queen names only albania has these names ilir teuta agron bardhyl genti
A lot of modern Greeks(Arvanites) have Albanian ancestry, and the modern Greek language is constructed with a lot of Albanian elements in it. Most likely the ancient Greeks were part Illyrians as well, the Dorians for example, associated with the words Dru- ( wood, woodland, etc. ), Dor- (hand, to give etc. ) and the -ian(they are). Illyrian/Yllirian/Hellenes/Ellines --very similar words and meanings, probably different variants.
Greci 😂😂😂😂😂stato religioso creato dal inglesi tedeschi francesi ed russi 😂😂😂😂😂😂
How can Albanians be real Ilyrians when first record of Albanians is in 13th century and all of Ilyrians were romanised by 4th century. Ilyrians became Romans and 1700 years later Albanians appear.
Serbian nationalist arguments are pathetic, especially when considering the recent DNA studies that clearly show a local Balkan origin for the Albanians, vs the Slavs that nobody in academia doubts came into the Balkans for the first time in the 7th century.
could be possibly protoalbanian...but why not consider a uralic language deriving from the step?protohungarian and prototurkish have the word ANA which means mom (in hungarian its actually ANJA) but apart from that,BİCAK resembles the turkish form for knife and spear could be MİZRAK...
Because it make zero fucking sense. The word for mother is practicaly the same in languages that arent even in the same family.
only Croats and Serbs are true Illyrians because the Albanians got information about their Illyrian origin only after the wars between the Serbs and them in order to have more rights to the territories
You are from the Caucasus. Genetically and culturally, you are the most similar to them. I don't want to argue with you, but I'm just stating my facts.
@@andrejkordic40genetically we are the same as half of greeks and south serbs. Literally cant tell the two apart. South serbs are assimilated albanians, greeks and albanians are made from the same dough. We have nothing to do with the Caucasus, meanwhile we have surviving documents rhat demonstrate that slavs come from there. There isnt a single mention of albanians or albanoid speaking peoples moving into the balkans. But somehow every other nation is attested (the slavs, the bulgars, the goths, heck even the greeks), this is because the albanian ethnogenesis happened in the balkans from the few surviving tribes in the mountains of the original paleobalkanic peoples. Everything else is just a cope. Doesnt make albanians better doesnt make them worse, but the only logical scientific explanation is this one. You can keep your Belgrade pseudoscience to yourself.
Ilyrian ore albanian language is the first language of humaniti go se the tre of language the sekond is armenin and tre is tocarian.
😂
Go ask one historian about this a now you dont belive this
@@user-iy4qc9ig4e I’m asking you
Nonsense, Basque is the "oldest" surviving European language.
@@davidaxelos4678 don’t try and use reason and logic with these brainwashed people.
....The linguists Stefan Schumacher and Joachim Matzinger (University of Vienna) assert that the first literary records of Albanian date from the 16th century. The oldest known Albanian printed book, Meshari, or "missal", was written in 1555 by Gjon Buzuku, a Roman Catholic cleric......
If the Albanian language is so old, why are there no written documents in that language in 1500 years. Illyrians have haplogroup I2, which is dominant among the people of the former Yugoslavia (Dinarians), while this haplogroup is negligible among Albanians.
I2a is Ukrainian/sclaveni. It originates from the Danube.
Deny it all you can, the real Illyrians are the Albanians. MESAPIK MES A PIK IN ALBANIAN MEANS MIDDLE or peak.
Try to find Olga Luković-pjanović book:"Srbi narod najstariji."(Serbs,the oldest nation).
Book will be interesting to you as linguist!
😂
If world history began in the 8th century AD, perhaps this would be true, but history begins at least 5,000 years earlier! You Serbs are 4,200 years too late.
Hahaha
She should have known that serbia comes from russia 😅
Maybe elsewhere.Not in the Illyrikum where they faced like barbarians about VI century.There is no archeological ore historical data to conferm.Have serbs fought against romans ore Alexander the Great? Don't be ridiculous.
🇦🇱🦅🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🦅🇦🇱🇦🇱🦅🇦🇱🙏
Propagande !
Why do you say that !?? Give some evidence?
Croats, Montenegrians, Bosnians and Serbs are Ilirian descendants.
Some historians claim Illyrians were R1b carriers. Some say J2b carriers. Neither say they were I2a or I2b. Strange.
No such thing as ancient Albanian
I was only going to just downvote this comment, but then I thought I would try and find out what's actually going on in your head? Does your comment add anything at all to the discussion about Illyrian language? or are you implying that Albanian has no historical roots? The Albani and the Abroi, considered as proto or early Albanians, were first attested in the 6th century BCE, is that not ancient enough for you?
@@sylvien2599 there is no
Proof that the extinct Illyrian language is linked in anyway to modern Albanian. The claim of a direct and continuous linguistic connection between the ancient Illyrian language and modern Albanian is not universally supported by linguists and scholars. the evidence is insufficient to establish a direct evolutionary link. The Illyrian language is poorly attested, primarily through ancient inscriptions, making it difficult to discern its precise linguistic features and relationship to other languages. Additionally, the development of the Albanian language involved significant influences from Latin, Greek, Slavic, and other languages due to the region's history of cultural exchange and conquest. There is no evidence for this bold claim. Relaying on old communist propaganda is not history. You can downvote the truth … now days the truth means very little to people like yourself
@@davidscwimer1974 But your comment merely stated 'no such thing as ancient Albanian', the video is well researched and actually just does a kind of meta analysis of modern, peer reviewed and published research. Your comment added nothing to the discussion. No evidence, no citations just a random and vague comment.
@@sylvien2599 really .. check again is there no implication that Albanian is some how an ancient language?
Hi there! What exactly did I say where you seem to have issue? I will just give you a quote from Routledge 'The Indo-European Languages' Second edition - 'Two main theories consider Albanian as a descendant of either Illyrian or Thracian langauges, respectively' and then the author recommends reviewing the work from Matzinger 2009 and 2012. Olander 2016, groups Albanian on the 'Illyric' branch ultimately descending from Paleo-Balkanic - but they stress caution with the label 'Illyric' due to lack of sufficient linguistic data (just as I said in my video). Mallory and Adams in the Encyclopaedia of Indo European (1997) states regarding lexical items 'by far the strongest connectionsncan be argued between Albanian and Illyrian' but again stresses to be conservative with any conclusions. Ultimately, Albanian descended from one of the Balkanic varieties of Indo-European brought to the region by whoever replaced the pre-Indo-European speakers of the region. I think nothing here in my statement is controversial and agrees with many leading names in IE studies, although some will disagree for sure but I try not to present minority views.